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Released every Tuesday, the LOUNGE LIZARDS podcast helps listeners navigate the experience of finding and enjoying premium cigars (both Cuban and non-Cuban) and quality spirits. Episodes are normally around 90 minutes long and feature a variety of different topics including food, travel, life, sports and work.
The podcast features seven members: Rooster, Poobah, Gizmo, Senator, Pagoda, Grinder and Bam Bam.
This is not your typical cigar podcast. We’re a group of friends who love sharing cigars, whiskey and a good laugh.
Join us and become a card-carrying lounge lizard yourself! Email us at hello@loungelizardspod.com to join the conversation and be featured on an upcoming episode!
**Gizmo:** [00:00:00] Welcome to the Lounge Lizards podcast presented by Fabrica5. It's so good to have you here. It's a leisure and lifestyle podcast founded on our love of premium cigars, as well as whiskey, travel, food, work, and whatever else we feel like getting into. My name is Gizmo. Tonight I'm joined by Rooster, Senator, Pagoda, Grinder, and Bam Bam.
And our plan is to smoke a cigar, drink some bourbon, talk about life, and of course, have some laughs. So take this as your 130th official invitation to join us and become a card carrying lounge lizard. Plan to meet us here once a week. We are going to smoke a New World cigar tonight, share our thoughts on it, and give you our formal lizard rating.
We discuss Aging Room's history and the unique story of its founder. We read some listener email, and we debate if we're experiencing a new type of cigar boom, all among a variety of other things for the next two hours. So sit back, get your favorite drink, light up a cigar, and enjoy. As we pair Port Finished, Angels Envy, Kentucky Straight Bourbon with the Aging Room Quattro Nicaragua Sonata in Maestro.
A Nicaraguan torpedo tonight on the [00:01:00] pod from the Aging Room. It's called the Quattro Nicaraguan Sonata. It's a beautiful torpedo, 52 ring gauge cigar. By six inches long and boys, we're back to aging room. And a lot of people are talking about this cigar, including some folks in this room. Oh yeah. Pagoda, I know you're a big fan of the aging room.
**Pagoda:** Yeah, I am. And, uh, I really enjoyed it the first time I smoked it. Um, so looking forward to it.
**Gizmo:** Yeah,
**Pagoda:** it's a beautifully made cigar.
**Gizmo:** It is. The construction is really nice. It's not. Too densely packed, which I like.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah, it's not heavy.
**Gizmo:** And yeah, I really like the yellow. I like the It's different. It's a, it's a cool, like, bright yellow.
A little different than like a Kohiba yellow. Yeah, we'll see how this thing is. Let's cut this thing, boys.
**Pagoda:** We'll just go to black and gold. And yeah, it looks very nice.
**Gizmo:** Cold draw on the wrapper.
Wide open. Yeah, mine's wide open too. Excellent. What do you got? Typical Nicaraguan dried [00:02:00] fruit.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah, it's got a nice little sweet note there, doesn't it?
**Grinder:** Mm hmm.
**Bam Bam:** I like it. Not earthy, no coffee, no leather. Very pleasant.
**Gizmo:** It's really just like a, like a dry fig. Yeah. Is really all I'm getting. It's really quite nice.
A little cedar.
**Bam Bam:** A bit maybe. A little bit of cedar. I get cedar too.
**Gizmo:** All right boys, let's light this thing. The Aging Room Quattro Nicaragua Sonata. It's the maestro ring gauge torpedo by six inches long. It's one of seven Vitola's in the line, which we'll go through. The cigar came out last year, middle of 2023 is celebrated at PCA 23 came out in the summer and it's sister to the very famous orange label Quattro Nicaragua.
It's [00:03:00] not the Sonata. The orange label is the one that people would know one cigar of the year. In 2019.
**Bam Bam:** So that Quattro was one of the, my early new world favorites. Smoked it for two years before I got into Padron. It was, it was pretty good.
**Gizmo:** And we did one of those on the podcast. I don't know if we did the one that won cigar of the year.
We did. Did we did the Espresso though?
**Pagoda:** Yeah. We didn't do the permanent. Oh,
**Gizmo:** this is the, I think the sister cigar to this, the Maestro in that orange line is the one that won cigar of the year. We did another Vitola in that.
**Bam Bam:** I see. I see.
**Gizmo:** Um, almost a hundred episodes.
**Bam Bam:** Now that cigar was deep and earthy coffee leather all day.
**Senator:** I have to say just the presentation of this cigar, to me this is one of the best looking Nicaraguan cigars I've probably ever seen. Yeah,
**Bam Bam:** it's beautiful.
**Senator:** Like the wrapper is mostly invisible, seems very smooth. It's not like as [00:04:00] toothy as like, Some Padrones even or other Nicaraguan cigars that you would expect, um, the draw is flawless.
Yes, flawless. I'm very impressed with the construction. The wrapper's really handsome.
**Rooster:** Yeah. That's what I remember about the other one. The Maestro. Also beautifully
**Bam Bam:** made cigar.
**Rooster:** Beautiful cigar, beautiful wrapper. Great
**Bam Bam:** quality.
**Rooster:** Yeah, seamless. And you can't see any seams on the wrapper. This is
**Bam Bam:** quite good right off the light.
Yeah, it's pleasant on the light. I like the flavor. Now, Giz, if you catch the aroma. Don't laugh, but I get a touch of citrus, just a little bit. You know, I'm 130
**Gizmo:** episodes in, I am not surprised. Well, that's not true. I mean, is there
**Rooster:** any
**Gizmo:** cigar that you don't get citrus on? Of
**Rooster:** course.
**Gizmo:** Listeners playing Bam Bam Bingo can mark down citrus on their card.
**Pagoda:** I'm really glad you mentioned that because I get a bit of lemon in this. I mean, thank you. Not yet, but
**Rooster:** [00:05:00] psychological from the band.
**Pagoda:** I totally agree. So, so my friends tried it and they, they obviously did not get any lemon in it at all. So it may be just because of the band, but the first couple of them, I did get a bit of lemon.
It's there.
**Bam Bam:** This is one of the
**Senator:** rare times I think that BAM has nailed the citrus note. Um, I smoked this for the first time with Pagoda when we were in Panama and I definitely got citrus and had this. Yeah. I've only smoked this once before. It was literally with Pagoda in Panama. He doesn't tell us nothing.
That's why we're doing this. He tells us nothing. Thank you. At least Gizmo can back me here. I've been saying we need to review this on the pod ever since I tried
**Gizmo:** it in Panama. I bought a box of them when they came back from Panama and they were both talking about how good the cigar was. Never heard it.
You see how he
**Senator:** projects on us? Keeping secrets. He's the one
**Pagoda:** keeping secrets and, and, you know, I cannot tell a
**Bam Bam:** lie
**Pagoda:** and, you know, Bam likes the other yellow band. So, you [00:06:00] know, that's,
**Bam Bam:** that's Rooster's favorite.
**Senator:** But the thing you said, Bam, that I actually had not done is notice on the burn line, how much citrus you get to, yeah, it's there. It's really nice.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. The retro Hills, surprisingly smooth. It's not. No burn, no bitterness at all.
**Gizmo:** I think the entire cigar right now, despite it being a Nicaraguan Puro, top to bottom, I think the blend is firmly medium.
I would not say it's even getting medium full or full.
**Bam Bam:** Do they list this as a full?
**Gizmo:** It's a full Nicaraguan Puro.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** So
**Bam Bam:** it's I think that also depends on how long you've been smoking cigars. We
**Rooster:** also just lit it, so
**Senator:** Yeah, it's very early, I think, to make a final judgment on that. Right. But I do agree that it starts medium.
And I, I mean, honestly, at how firmly medium this is, I could easily see this getting medium full. I don't think it's that far from needing to get there.
**Pagoda:** Very flavorful. I just love the draw on this. You know, it's so [00:07:00] easy. It is. The construction's great.
**Gizmo:** So these cigars come in boxes of 20. Like I said, it's a very yellow box with the aging room branding all over it.
So this is made in partnership with AJ Fernandez. It's made at Taba Clara, AJ Fernandez in Esteli, Nicaragua. And like I said, it's one of seven Vitolas in the line. The Espressivo is a 50 ring gauge, uh, Robusto by five inches long. Vibrato is 54 by 6, a toro. Figurato is 52 by 6 and a half. The impromptu is also 52 by 6 and a half.
I guess it's just a different shape. Maestro that we're smoking tonight is 52 by 6. The concerto is a 50 by 7. And the grande is a 60 ring gauge cigar by 6 inches long. I love the
**Bam Bam:** names.
**Gizmo:** Concerto. Yeah. Very much in line with the maestro, but I have a bravo. That's bam at the show in Havana. [00:08:00] Bravo. Bravo.
Bam's alter ego in Havana just yells bravo all the
**Grinder:** time
**Gizmo:** at the Tropicana at the Tropicana show.
**Pagoda:** Those are the days, by the way, we continue the tradition the second time we went correct. Even in your absence, we all were going bravo.
**Bam Bam:** I'm do we know how much the cigar is? 12 bucks.
**Senator:** Oh, that's quite the value.
**Bam Bam:** Great
**Senator:** price point. The combustion on this cigar is fantastic.
**Gizmo:** It is a chimney. I mean, and especially for something that comes to a, you know, I would assume the point when you do a reasonable cut on it is probably in the low to mid forties. Ring gauge wise, it's putting out a lot of smoke for a torpedo.
**Bam Bam:** And the other aging room did as well. I think they're all very good performing cigars.
**Grinder:** How much
**Bam Bam:** of uh,
**Grinder:** of AJ Fernandez's influence goes into this or is it just satisfactory?
**Gizmo:** From a blending perspective, it's all, and we'll get into the [00:09:00] history of Aging Room, but it's all done by the owner of Aging Room. He does all the blending and then he contracts out The manufacturing and the rolling and whatnot of all the cigars.
He actually works with three different, uh, manufacturing hubs. One is Hochi Blanco at Taba Clara La Palma in the Dominican Republic. And then he has two partners in Nicaragua, Nestor Palencia, Jr. Obviously Palencia. And the cigar that we're smoking tonight was rolled at A. J. Fernandez's factory. So
**Grinder:** it reminds me of an Alma Forte.
**Gizmo:** What? Oh boy. I'm joking. I'm joking. Don't go there. Don't even go there.
**Senator:** That could torpedo a rating.
**Grinder:** No pun intended. No pun intended. Nice.
**Gizmo:** This is a really good cigar. Yeah. I love, like you said, Bam, I love the interplay between the retro hail, the smell at the burn line. The normal draw. It's
**Bam Bam:** really, everything's working. [00:10:00] It's just unusual how different it is from the other Adrian that we smoked. Because I got a lot of coffee and earth note in that cigar.
And this one is really Very pleasant and for me kind of light and fruity and
**Pagoda:** yeah, easy to smoke. I think the other one is more padronisk and this one is more like, I think, Pledge of Allegiance, the E. P. Greo, the lemon. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's a great call out.
**Senator:** I 100 percent agree with that. Like for me what I like when I first tried this and I'm definitely experiencing now, there's complexity to this cigar.
Like I think the The Pledge of Allegiance, we were shocked for like a Nicaragua, a mostly Nicaraguan cigar to be getting citrus notes along with like cocoa and coffee. You never really see that with Nicaraguan tobacco. And I feel like this comes close to doing that and is complex in what it delivers.
That other aging room that, uh, one cigar of the year or whatever year that was.
**Rooster:** 2019.
**Senator:** Yep. 19. 2019. For me, I thought that cigar ironically needed more aging. I just felt it [00:11:00] was a little bit harsh where when Pagoda gave me this, what I liked about it, it's a very smooth delivery all the way through.
Hopefully that is the case this time. And I think the flavor profile of that other aging room. Is a bit more straightforward and I think this is much more complex, much
**Bam Bam:** deeper cigar.
**Senator:** It's a fuller cigar for sure. Of course. But I just mean in terms of the different flavor notes that you pull out, it seemed more straightforward.
It was just like coffee, cocoa, earthy, little earthy. Very incredible. Like what we imagine. This, I think you get some of those notes, not as pronounced, but also like tried fruit and citrus. And just there's more complexity here for me. I also
**Bam Bam:** think this is a much more versatile cigar because of the I agree profile that I could do this almost any time of the day
**Rooster:** I agree.
But apparently the other cigar that we're talking about the Meistro had H tobacco. Had a lot of aged tobacco, according to.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, we talked about that, but it did not smoke like this. No, it didn't smoke that way. And we [00:12:00] had it quite some time in the humidor. So it wasn't a high humidity situation. Just like this tonight.
I've had this probably about two months. You sure? Not high humidity? It was not high humidity when we smoked that cigar. Who with beads or with wow.
**Senator:** bam. Calling into question vi uh, gizmos. Vigilant.
**Bam Bam:** Vigilant?
**Senator:** No. This was before the vigilant ? No. Oh, then it could That was kitty lit days, correct. Before, correct.
Before, before
**Rooster:** Oasis. Before the oasis days. Oh man. The kitty litter.
**Gizmo:** I abstain from the kitty litter conversation. .
**Grinder:** I love it.
**Gizmo:** So. The blend of this is definitely more intentional to be. More medium than, than the orange, uh, Quattro that we smoked. That was very intentional when, when they made the decision to, to put the cigar together. I think with that reduction in strength is [00:13:00] pointing to what Senator is saying about the complexity of the cigar.
It's almost like what we talked about with Steve Saka. And on that interview a few weeks ago, it's, you know, coming down in strength and oomph, you know, it kind of lends the opportunity for there to be more complexity, more flavor, more changes, more.
**Bam Bam:** You can capture more when the cigar is less robust because it's not.
overpowering. So you can experience more of it because you're not pushing that smoke out so fast because it's, this is pleasant. So you can keep it with you more or longer. I think
**Rooster:** you're
**Gizmo:** right. Yeah.
**Pagoda:** That's a refined
**Bam Bam:** pilot
**Pagoda:** speaking. Oh
**Gizmo:** yeah. Shut off
**Bam Bam:** his
**Gizmo:** mic.
Yeah, this is very, very pleasant. I'm, I'm very happy. Honestly, when I saw. That it was a Nicaraguan Puro, like the other cigar we smoked. I was anticipating, you know, when I was reading that the blend was intentionally more mild, when I was reading about the, you know, the plan for the cigar as the [00:14:00] sister cigar to that more full orange box that, uh, that we smoked a hundred episodes ago, I was hesitant.
I was like, I don't believe them that this is going to be a mild experience because honestly, I think we've talked about. Nicaraguan puros, we very rarely have a Nicaraguan puro that's firmly medium, even at this point, about what, three quarters of an inch in. So it's like, to have that experience, and I think we experienced that with Steve Saka, we've done that with some Padrones, but I think that this is unique, a little unique in that way.
I agree. You know, and how this is delivering its flavor. I totally agree.
**Senator:** And the thing I love about this cigar, I mean, from my perspective, at this point, there's not another cigar that I would like really closely compare this to and say like, this is just like X cigar. I actually feel like what they've done here is pretty unique.
Like, I think the closest would be the pledge of allegiance that Pagoda said, but that was fuller than this. So like for a medium body smoke that delivers that kind of profile [00:15:00] as smoothly as this is, I don't think there's anything else. And This is the kind of cigar that I would be very excited to give to a Cuban cigar smoker that I think would be a great entry point into new world cigars.
Like, I could see anybody who enjoys a medium bodied Cuban cigar. Also, lovingness which is not the case for most nic, I wouldn't say that for most Nicaraguan Pierros.
**Bam Bam:** Absolutely. That's true. Now, that's what it's previewing like now. Let's wait another 2 inches and see what it's like. 1 inch at a time, buddy.
1 inch at a time.
**Rooster:** So what do you think, Rhonda? Do you like this?
**Grinder:** I love it. I think, um, We love it. It's, it's definitely a lot softer than, you know, the expectations for a Nicaraguan Puro. The citrus comment blew me away because I couldn't actually pinpoint it. And when you said it, I kind of giggled. But, it definitely, there's definitely that tangy citrus note.
**Gizmo:** He's the boy who cried citrus. He is the boy. When he hits a home run with it, it's a, you know, it's not every episode when he says citrus. I'm not
**Grinder:** gloating, [00:16:00] am I? I am not gloating. I think, um. Uh, I think it was, uh, Senator who mentioned the construction is beautiful. It, it, it, in the hand, it's very, it's very nice to hold in the hand.
Um, the burn line is perfect. The aroma is fantastic. Um, I kind of get this, this like nutty flavor. It's hard to pinpoint. It's like a very nutty, um, Um, and a little, I don't know, citrus nut, like a, like a salty nut, um, and, um, definitely get, get the mild flavor for the Cuban that you guys referenced as well.
But I, I was struggling for a while there to actually equate it to something I'm familiar with. Um, and I think, I think it was Senator who also said that he can't compare it. I'm not, this is incomparable to me right now. And that's in a, in a positive way.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah.
**Grinder:** It's a huge
**Senator:** merit. Honestly, the cigars I get most excited about.
are cigars that I can't compare to anything else. I'm like, wow, they've done something unique. That's gonna leave an imprint on [00:17:00] me. I'm gonna remember that cigar. I'm gonna pursue that cigar. And so far, this is memorable. So far.
**Grinder:** And I've been, I've been retrohailing the whole time. Same here. And I'm not, I haven't gotten like, No bitterness there.
No bitterness. Yeah. It's not harsh. Nope. Uh, the, it's full flavor. I'm not getting, like sometimes when I retro hell, and this scar's too harsh, I'll have to sneeze or something, you know, have, haven't had that. So the,
**Rooster:** the smoke is very rich. Yeah. Right. If you smell the smell the foot. Yeah. I mean it's a, it's a very rich, oh, rich smoke.
It's velvety right. Smoke as well. There's a
**Gizmo:** milk chocolate thing that happens on the retro hail that doesn't happen on the normal draw. Mm. That is. Kind of rounding out the entire flavor profile to me like it's adding another level of complexity Maybe I don't get in the cocoa
**Bam Bam:** on the on the end of that retro That's where I'm getting a little bit of cocoa.
**Grinder:** I get a little and I noticed this when I first took a draw It was a little oily on on the on the tip of or on the wrapper, which is I I think here I think that's that's a good thing. I don't know if you guys yeah Yeah, [00:18:00] and I don't know where that if that adds any different kind of flavor or what the flavor is what that's derivative of, but certainly, certainly a merit here.
**Senator:** So I think the cigar does transition a little bit in the sense that when you mentioned getting milk chocolate on the retrohale, I think once you're about a quarter of an inch into the cigar, you start getting some of those cocoa nuts, uh, cocoa notes, which I really like. Yeah. Just
**Gizmo:** starting to
**Senator:** get that now.
Yeah. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** I think that the aroma at the burn line is actually changing now. A little bit, actually even better than on the
**Bam Bam:** light. The citrus has evaporated for me on the foot. I'm still getting that in the retrohale and cocoa finish on that, but it's still, it's still presenting a fruit forward experience for me
**Grinder:** on the draw.
Definitely fruit forward. And it's, uh, it's a light finish though. It kind of quickly, you know, uh, I don't think it's
**Gizmo:** in an unpleasant way. I think when we talk about a
**Grinder:** fast, short finish. Yeah, I don't disagree with that. [00:19:00] Medium finish. I think a medium finish. Yeah, I mean that, and it's not, it's not like peppery.
Sometimes you get that, those harsh Nicaraguans. It's like, it's a very pleasant feeling, you know, it's kind of creamy. It's a clean finish. Clean finish, yeah. You know,
**Bam Bam:** honestly, I hope we don't get a pepper on this at all. That pepper, no, I would be disappointed if that happens here.
**Senator:** I just, the wildest thing listening to our conversation on this.
This is a 12 cigar. I was just about to go there. Very, very, how many notes we've already pulled out. We're not even finished with the first third of the cigar. Unbelievable. It's crazy.
**Grinder:** I also think we've really developed an appreciation for new worlds because we, we have so many listeners who are great.
You know, Cuban enthusiasts, but our passion, like we are really digging deep into these brands that are, you know, new world cigars and, and really appreciating them in ways that we may, maybe not have appreciated for, you know, based off our Cuban experience.
**Rooster:** Can't smoke a 50 Cuban every day.
**Senator:** No. No, you can't.
[00:20:00] No. And I think it's good that they're innovating. I mean, my first experience with Aging Room was probably like, Um, all, if not most of us having the version of this, that one cigar of the year. And I just didn't like, I, I love the, I remember the construction being great like this. It was a handsome cigar.
There was a lot of reasons I wanted to try it. And I just, that cigar being so close in what it's trying to deliver to a Padron and I'm sitting there saying, you know, for the same price, I'm going to pick up a Padron this carving out. And you know, Gizmo mentioned, I didn't even know when this came out just last year.
Yeah. then doing something different that isn't like anything else out there. Like that's made me more excited now about this brand and I'm amazed that they actually make a lot more cigars than I realized. So I would love to try it. You know, plenty more of what they're doing.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. This is definitely a departure from that cigar that we had, no doubt about it.
And I'm curious, like you said, what are the other cigars like? Yeah. It's a good question. Does anyone
**Senator:** know? Well, I'll say this. I saw a little, um, I was just watching [00:21:00] a video with the founder. Actually I've been watching a lot of stuff that the founders put out, uh, I'm just starting to follow him too. I mean, oh, that's right.
This is so he, this guy is basically like my spirit animal. This guy, if you go on his Instagram, he's got photos of caviar, champagne, wine with cigars, great meals. I, everything I love in life as a treat, this man appreciates. So. His social media has been very fun for me to dive into, but, um, on there, I was just watching him talk a little bit about kind of his philosophy.
And I, I was impressed that there seems to be a real range of what he makes in terms of like some mild stuff, medium, and then full stuff. Like we're familiar with the other version of this. And even in the mild stuff that he produces, which is just a little portion of it. He was saying that like his goal is even for the mild smoker for there to be flavor.
And like, this is firmly medium, but there's a lot of flavor here and complexity,
**Bam Bam:** right? There are
**Senator:** [00:22:00] many mediums, new world cigars that we've tried that don't actually have enough flavor. And we sit there saying, I wish this were medium full delivering more. I don't think any of us are saying that we're lacking flavor.
We need more like this has a lot for a medium bodied cigar. So I'd even be curious to try like for a morning smoke. Some of the mild stuff they make because his philosophy, kind of like I was intrigued when we talked to Steve Saka is like, even for the mild smoker, it shouldn't be flavorless. There should be something that leaves that, that brings you back to that cigar.
So I'd be curious to try a lot of their other stuff.
**Gizmo:** I think that's an interesting point too. And I think we're all kind of touching on it, the uniqueness of a cigar and how we have really come to celebrate that here, because every week we're smoking a different cigar Cuban or, or, or new world like tonight.
And when we find something that's unique and might find a place in our rotation or might slot in where something else can slot, it's like. That is so much more rewarding to me. And for our experience here, [00:23:00] then finding a cigar that's trying to be a Padron, trying to be a Fuente or trying to do something in an imitation from an imitation standpoint, where when you find a cigar like this, that's really standing on its own.
**Bam Bam:** There aren't many cigars like this, you know, stand on their own. And we found a few gems like that sin compromiso. That is quite a unique cigar. And the other one we did it, uh,
**Gizmo:** the other one we did at PCA to the Allegiance sidekick.
**Bam Bam:** Very good.
**Gizmo:** I think that, you know, especially from a pricing standpoint, it's a regular production cigar.
I'm kind of, that's kind of in my mind, not that it's similar.
**Bam Bam:** They're so unique.
**Gizmo:** They're unique. And they've, to me, they would slot in similar places. You know, this cigar in that EP career we did a few weeks ago in the PCA episode. So I don't know. I think that this is a good, um, this is a good showing tonight so far from, uh, from aging room.
So let's talk about the history of aging room. I know there's a lot of history there. And Rafael Nadal, as Senator mentioned, has, um, [00:24:00] an interesting life and has had an interesting life, starting, of course, in Cuba.
**Senator:** Yeah, I mean, he's Cuban himself, and the funny thing about the story is, most of what you see online talks about, kind of, from 2011 to the present, when he, Bought the company and took over, but there is a history to it before him.
And so I thought it's just helpful to kind of start there. The company itself was first established in the nineties in 1996 as the Havana Cuba cigar company in Miami lakes, Florida. And their intention was the brand was going to ship to the U S as the non Cuban alternative to the Cuban Oliveros brand.
Their timing was horrible because there was kind of the cigar boom in the early 90s and it was actually starting to taper off. So demand was not conducive to this really working well. So they had some really bad financial trouble. They then repositioned its, uh, the company, even renamed it Boutique Blends became the new name.
And then [00:25:00] in 2011, that's when Rafael Nadal, uh, bought Boutique Blends. And the, the reason he had changed the name to Aging Room, I was watching an interview with him. And He said that a lot of people would come in, um, to visit at the factory and they would say, I want something from your aging room. And he'd pull out a cigar that had some age with some aged tobacco, and that kind of became the thrust behind him naming the, the, the brand going forward, Aging Room.
Um, the first series that they put out, which I'm, I'm, Just because I'm so happy with this cigar already. I really want to work through their line. It was called the m356 series Was kind of the first big hit that they had and then after that they've put out a ton of other Different types of cigars and I think they play with tobacco from a lot of different places, which is kind of cool Um, a lot of their stuff's made in the Dominican, also Nicaraguan.
And then they blend in stuff from really, um, all over. Um, they love, I saw like Sumatra rappers from [00:26:00] Indonesia and just. It's, um, I think it's fun brands that are, um, willing to explore. And I think some of the best stuff that we found in the new world space, I mean, we talked about the Pledge of Allegiance that had American tobacco even inside that.
**Grinder:** America.
**Senator:** Didn't he start out with some flavored cigars? Um, that, that was part of when he bought it, part of the line that existed. And then when he took over, he cut out all the flavored stuff said, we're only going to make money in this business can only succeed by focusing on premium hand rolled cigars.
And so he fundamentally shifted kind of the whole operation and their business strategy and really to appeal to, I think, lizards like us and our listeners and not, you know, the person that's maybe Trying a cigar for the first time or occasionally and want some flavored thing to make it a little more palatable for that.
**Rooster:** Yeah, apparently the cigar that we were talking about earlier with the, with the orange band, that cigar had [00:27:00] the Sumatran, Sumatran wrapper. Oh,
**Senator:** really?
**Rooster:** And the tobacco in that, I mean, he says it's, it's aged, but it's also from, not only is it a, you know, it's all Nicaraguan tobacco, but it was one of the few cigars where the tobacco is grown only in Esteli.
It's just from one region, not like, you know, other regions of Nicaragua, but all of it came from Esteli. That's great. Yeah. And that, that was the cigar of the year in 2019. So he's got, he's got like, I think maybe two or three cigars that are one. They have, and highly rated. Yeah. They've done
**Gizmo:** very well.
Yeah. So this, the cigar we were talking about. I got number one in 2019, had a 96 rating. That's the maestro, which is very, very high. Right? Well, the, the maestro, the, the sister identical vitola to this under the aging room. Nicaragua Quatro. Mm-Hmm. . We're smoking the Nicaragua Quatro Sonata tonight. Here's a question.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. How big is the his catalog and are
**Gizmo:** the vilas
**Bam Bam:** similar
**Gizmo:** in dimension? [00:28:00] So, right now, it looks like they only have two cigars in regular production. Wow. The orange and the yellow. Wow. So, that is it. They have the Aging Room Quattro Nicaragua Sonata and the Aging Room Quattro Nicaragua. Wow, that's surprising to hear.
That's what they have.
**Pagoda:** I gotta tell you that for all New World smokers who I've come across, they all have tried and enjoyed the Aging Room,
**Bam Bam:** the Quattro. Yeah, he's doing something right. He's got great marketing, great product. But, uh, he's building a business, clearly, if he's only got two, two sticks, right?
**Gizmo:** Well, I think what happens is, you know, he's had a lot of success since 2011. I mean, the first year he released the cigar, he was number 16, got a 94 rating, six years later, number 15 in 2017, 93, then in 2016, the year before that, And number 14, he had a number two in 2013 and then the number one cigar of the year in 2019.
So since he's been in business, which is only 14 or 15 years now, since he's owned this, [00:29:00] he's placed in the top 25, five times and only two cigars. It's all he has. I think because he's a contractor, that he's going to these factories and purchasing allotment, purchasing, you know, um, rolling space, rolling time, I think they're probably making certain quantities, and then once it's gone, it's gone, and then he moves on to the next thing.
What's
**Bam Bam:** cool is that he handles his own blending. He does. And that's, that's something to say. That's, that's really impressive.
**Rooster:** But they're all made at the A. J. Fernandez factory. Factory, right? Currently. Yes.
**Gizmo:** But he does have other partners, as I mentioned earlier. He
**Rooster:** started off with Pardomo, I think was his initial partner or not partner, but maybe that's what I
**Pagoda:** think he's done some stuff with the sensei as well.
So yeah, I
**Senator:** mean, his Nicaraguan cigars are made. Um, by AJ Fernandez in, uh, in Nicaragua, but his Dominican cigars in the past, uh, because he had lines that were all Dominican tobacco or majority Dominican tobacco, that was made by, uh, Hochi Blanco. In the Dominican.
**Gizmo:** And he also, like I said, he, [00:30:00] he, earlier he worked with Plasencia at one point.
Yeah, that's right. So he's had three partners so far. In, in the two countries. So, we'll see what's next for him.
**Bam Bam:** Nice trajectory.
**Gizmo:** You know, interesting too, he came over, uh, in 1980 as a Cuban refugee on the Mariel boat lift, which I guess was quite a journey. Senator, how long did he say it took him to come over on the boat?
12, 12 hours. 12 hours. Yikes. 12 hours. To come from Cuba to Miami on the boat. And what, and you saw a cool story, uh, when he arrived in Miami, the first thing that his family did,
**Rooster:** he arrived in Miami with his father and I'm not sure who else was there, but the first thing he had was a Coca Cola and an apple.
He had never seen those two items before. Amazing. There's no apples. There were no apples in Cuba.
**Bam Bam:** They're not growing. Can you
**Rooster:** imagine that growing up and you have not seen the most common fruit, an apple? Yeah. So he's like, he still drinks Coca Cola. That's Cuba. Yeah.
**Grinder:** Cuba being
**Rooster:** Cuba.
**Gizmo:** So he came here [00:31:00] as a refugee, went to New York city, tried to become a musician and have a successful music career that went back to Miami and worked in healthcare.
That was his professional life, fell in love with cigars. And then I guess with his, the bounty he made in his healthcare life. And his health care profession, he was able to purchase aging room and now that's his profession. His wife
**Senator:** was also actually instrumental in him being able to purchase aging room.
I'm not sure what his wife's story is. She's a
**Rooster:** partner in the company. Yeah,
**Senator:** she's,
**Rooster:** she's definitely got some wealth and was able to. With Hank, somebody named Hank. Hank
**Gizmo:** Bischoff.
**Rooster:** Hank Bischoff. And his
**Gizmo:** wife is Dr. Alina Cordovas.
**Rooster:** She's a psychiatrist. So there you go. So she was hired as a medical director. In his car, not his company, the company that he worked for.
And then he later married, uh, Alina and she's a partner in the company. That's great. And she's Cuban as well. Oh, cool.
**Pagoda:** I was, I was about to ask you, but didn't you come around the eighties as well? [00:32:00] What boat did you take?
**Gizmo:** What boat did you take?
**Pagoda:** All right.
**Rooster:** That boat was a little bigger than the Mariel. From India, it takes a little more than 12 hours.
**Bam Bam:** You may have to take him behind the building tonight. He knows what's
**Grinder:** coming. Well, the summer's here, oh my lord.
Getting a lot of cocoa right now.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah, me
**Grinder:** too. That transition was pretty, uh, Pretty strong. Not in a bad way. No, it's a
**Bam Bam:** very light cocoa, especially on the retrohale, but even the, just the simple draw, you're getting it on the finish for me.
**Senator:** I just feel it's so elegant. Like it is a cigar word for it. Yeah.
It's like a cigar that has a kind of light, smooth, soft delivery, but yet is so flavorful to me is like, The epitome of an elegant cigar. [00:33:00] Agreed.
**Gizmo:** You know what's interesting too about you saying elegant? I'm finding that, I don't know if it's the flavor profile, the complexity, or just how it's hitting my palate.
I'm finding myself very relaxed in, in smoking it tonight, and I'm not rushing to continue drawing on it to keep pulling more flavor into my palate. It's pretty satisfying. It's satisfying, and I feel like I'm, I'm not like intentionally smoking slower, like, I feel like I'm just moving at a good pace, whereas I think with some other Nicaraguans that we've smoked, namely as a, you know, a good example is the Oliva V.
Lancero. It's a cigar that like, I just try to get through that as fast as I can. It's great. But it's, it's, it's a little bit different of an experience than what I'm having tonight with this Torpedo.
**Senator:** I'm just glad if you knew how many Havana clubs. We were in Panama at the point at which I said, we need to do this at the pot.
I'm glad that somehow my taste buds were still working at that point.
**Gizmo:** The other thing I've found [00:34:00] really interesting too, about aging room. And I don't know if it's a distribution relationship, if it's a marketing partnership, or if they have a percentage ownership of the brand, but aging room is an Altidus brand,
**Bam Bam:** really?
So
**Gizmo:** when you look at. Aging Rooms website. It's on Altidus website. Like, it's not a stand alone thing. So they don't own
**Senator:** it. The
**Gizmo:** distribution
**Senator:** is
**Gizmo:** run
**Senator:** by Altidus. Which
**Gizmo:** makes a lot of sense, because to get into so many brick and mortar stores It's a smart move. You need to have distribution. That's similar to,
**Grinder:** um, a similar relationship Jorge de Nicaragua has with True Estate.
Mm hmm. Right? So, he doesn't own that brand, but he distributes it.
**Gizmo:** Which is very smart. I mean, a lot of, a lot of manufacturers go it alone. And it's very difficult to, you know, think about how many brick and mortar shops there are and how much of a staff you would need to have. Even Steve Sacco was talking about that.
Why doesn't have the
**Bam Bam:** wheel when you don't
**Gizmo:** have to exactly now you're giving up a little bit of a piece of the business. Of course, [00:35:00] every shop I go in, I see aging, they're everywhere. Yeah. I see that orange box in almost every shop I go in.
**Bam Bam:** Very impressive.
**Gizmo:** So, Let's talk about our pairing tonight here, boys.
We have, we are back to Angel's Envy, Angel's Envy bourbon. We did the Angel's Envy rye quite some time ago, almost 100 episodes ago. Delicious. And we have the traditional bourbon, I guess, finished in port wine or something. Is that correct? Yes. In the wine. Take it and put it in the wine. It's poor. It's blended barrels.
So let's try this thing.
**Pagoda:** Oh, wait, let me try one second.
**Gizmo:** So I'm drinking my neat. I that's the first sip I took since we poured it. I took one very quickly. It was a little hot. I think since it sat here for almost 40 minutes, I think It's really, really cooled off in heat, and I have no ice in it. Um, I think this is a nice pairing for this cigar.
Flavor profile. I'm
**Grinder:** surprised at how much I like it. Me too. Me too. Because I [00:36:00] definitely, um, I usually don't, you guys know, I don't especially like bourbon too much. No. Um, and I don't like port too much, but this is very subtle. a lot of flavor. Um, I do think it pairs nicely and it provides like a very silky, uh, palette with the cigar.
**Senator:** I, I completely agree. I mean, I think neat this drinks really well. To me, it's actually not very hot. Um, I had tried after having it need a little bit of ice in it, and I actually think the ice ruined it. It got a bit, Aggressive for me. So I dumped that out and just report. And I just, I have another neat pour here.
I actually think it's very easy drinking. I think like grinder said, like the flavor of it, it's not like an overpowering sweet bourbon. Like some can be, you don't taste, I'm not sure what the proof is. I'm kind of curious. 45, 43. 3. So it's above 40%. You don't, you don't really feel that I would have guessed it's 40.
**Gizmo:** I think I felt [00:37:00] it was a little hot when I first poured it before we hit record. I just took a quick sip. I did as well. And I felt as it sat here and just kind of opened up a little bit, that went away. And now I'm agreeing with you, but when I first, first sipped it, it needed, it needed some time. When it
**Pagoda:** opened up, I think a lot of the alcohol evaporated and that's called the angel's share.
Right . That's how, that's we, that's how you the name. We got a rare form Pagoda tonight. Voice . No, but, but that's how the name came about. Angels Envy.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. Because of the angel share, which is 5%, I guess, as it's being distilled. Yeah, it kind of, yeah. And aged and 5%. Uh. evaporates off and they call that the
**Grinder:** Correct.
I'm impressed pegota not as it's distilled but as it's in the bottle. I think
**Bam Bam:** pegota's been reading a lot of propaganda from the manufacturer.
**Grinder:** But in all seriousness, the nose I again very surprised how much How palatable the nose is, it's kind of like, it's, it doesn't, it doesn't waft in my nostrils like horseradish, you know, it's, [00:38:00] it's very subtle again, very flavor.
You can kind of get some caramel. The sweetness is still there, but not to your point, not overpowering. It's really
**Bam Bam:** pleasant. I'm getting a slight, I get a slight floral kind of fruit finish on this thing. As it goes down. I agree. It's pleasant. It's different. That's pretty unique.
**Gizmo:** I think the uniqueness of the bourbon, a little
**Bam Bam:** floral for me on the end,
**Gizmo:** I think the flavor profile of the bourbon actually as aligning very nicely with the unique flavor profile.
And what I dig is still a medium flavor profile of the cigar. And I think that when I picked up and kind of threw out there, let's do angels envy tonight. Cause we had it in, in the lineup to review, Puro expecting what we had In the orange label, uh, Quattro from aging room quite some time ago, I was thinking, okay, let's get a bourbon in here.
That's going to have a little bit of heat to it. It's going to match nicely with this Nicaraguan puro ends up. We have a cigar that's more medium than we expected, and we're drinking a bourbon with it. That is a little bit. [00:39:00] lighter in body, I think, than what I
**Bam Bam:** was expecting. And some slight similarity in notes, I think, I think lends nicely together.
I do think a rum would go great with the cigar. I think a lot would go great with the cigar. I think a very, like an Oban 14 would be great. Um, maybe the McAllen 12. That's not a rum. No, a scotch. I'm going scotch now, of course. A rum, a scotch, I think would be great with the cigar.
**Senator:** Oh yeah. Cognac too. I just, the funny thing with Angel's Envy, So I think Grindr and I have talked about this before.
I don't think either of us have ever really been a fan of Angel's Envy. And I'm realizing maybe the reason to me, this is actually, it's a pretty good sipping bourbon because it's not super hot or aggressive. And there's complexity in the flavor profile. It's not like dominated by a certain one particular note or flavor.
I think that. The majority of times I've probably had this, it's been like mixed in a cocktail. It's like, what bourbon do you want in your Manhattan or your old fashion or whatever, and someone at the table says angels envy, and then I have it. And my experience with this, with ice [00:40:00] was not good. And I think that it just.
Totally changes what this experience is like in a way that I don't enjoy. So for so many years, I've never had a good impression of Angel's Envy. I think for that reason, but now being able to enjoy this neat with a cigar. I, I would drink this again. It's actually good. I did
**Bam Bam:** drop
**Senator:** a
**Bam Bam:** few cubes after I, Took the first two sips and that, and it was, it did get a little hotter, unusually.
**Senator:** Let the listener note, Senator is drinking without ice, Bam Bam is drinking with ice. Yes,
**Bam Bam:** this is an unusual anomaly tonight, guys, but it has dissipated and it's settled in nicely. So I am enjoying it. You
**Pagoda:** know, what's really interesting is on the website, The first thing that comes out is a Manhattan, right?
And so they, they, I think they're marketing themselves as
**Bam Bam:** a I would not have this with any cocktail for me,
**Pagoda:** ever. It's interesting that the focus in terms of marketing is slightly different. But yeah, it's a really good sipping bourbon.
**Senator:** And the price point is how much is this [00:41:00] decently substantial? 55 bucks.
Oh wow.
**Gizmo:** We paid 50 for this box. That's very affordable. I
**Senator:** mean, a lot of mixing bourbons you can find for like 30 something dollars at most 40 bucks. So at 50 something bucks for this, like that's what should, that's what a sipping spirit should command. And I do think that's what this is. Nice.
**Gizmo:** So it's aged four to six years in new American white oak barrels.
And then like we talked about, it's finished for six additional months in port casks. It's someone told me in port wine. Are you sure?
**Bam Bam:** Well, that's why we like it so much. And somehow they extracted out of that wine.
**Grinder:** They do market themselves as a mixer bourbon.
**Gizmo:** They do. And what I found this interesting too, I like, you know, I don't know much about this, so this might be standard, but the port casks are imported from the Douro region of Portugal, which is pretty cool.
So let's talk about the tasting notes. I always love going through tasting notes from our liquor pairings. Uh, this is straight [00:42:00] from their website, which by the way is probably the worst website I've ever been on. I can't stand it. It says here Will you just hack it and redo the site? I probably, I might email them.
Tasting notes with a gold color laced with reddish amber hues, nearly copper in tone. Our bourbon is finished in port wine barrels, which adds subtly distinct flavor nuances that enhance the whiskey without challenging it. On the nose, subtle vanilla, raisins, maple syrup, and toasted nuts. On the palate, vanilla ripe fruit, maple syrup, toast, and bitter chocolate.
And then they say the finish is clean and lingering sweetness with a hint of It's a wine, it's
**Pagoda:** a wine. Madeira wine. Madeira. Madeira. I've never
**Gizmo:** heard of Madeira. And do we
**Bam Bam:** know what that is? It's a wine.
**Rooster:** Madeira wine. Maybe that's what they mix it with. It's a Portuguese wine. Looks like it would go
**Senator:** well with pancakes.
It would. I don't think most of those notes are [00:43:00] crazy. I think most of the tasting notes you do get. Yes.
**Gizmo:** So they also have a version of this bourbon that is finished in rum casks. So they have a port finish and a rum finish.
You know, another cigar down the road is do the rum finish and compare it to this port finished Bourbon that we're drinking tonight.
**Grinder:** I think that's maybe why it's different for me from like a typical port, you know finish because it's It's you know, specifically Madeira, you know, and that's a very unique Kind of port.
**Gizmo:** I've, I've never, I don't think I've ever had port wine. I don't think I've ever had it in fairness. You haven't had a lot of this. I do have a sport coat now. So Madeira, Madeira, Madeira is on the list
**Grinder:** as
**Gizmo:** of tonight. I don't
**Grinder:** think you'll like it. [00:44:00] I'm just going to, just from what I can tell,
**Senator:** he's gotten more into wine recently.
So I feel like in the right setting, With the right port, because there's a lot of shitty port that's really, really too sweet. But with the right port, maybe Gizmo could appreciate it. These
**Pagoda:** guys, I think, uh, they put them in ruby port barrels as opposed to tawny port. And the difference, I guess, is the color?
**Senator:** No, I mean, it's the flavor. So ruby port is sweeter port. Uh, tawny port is, um, a bit drier. And it's like a, kind of like a nuttier finish. Not as like much of a berry. finish that you would get on a ruby port. So I prefer tawny port. Most ruby port for me is just way too sweet. But to finish something like this, you're trying to just extract that flavor.
Exactly. So that would kind of work. Yeah.
**Grinder:** Apparently the most, uh, prevalent drink of the American colonialist port wine.
**Gizmo:** So let me ask you a question about port wine, because I have no idea about it. [00:45:00] Is that something that you you're getting that? After dinner drink menu and you're ordering it. I'm asking you guys, do you do this?
I'll say
**Senator:** this. I knew nothing about port until I was in college. And one of my best friends went to Portugal on a trip and drank a ton of port and told me how great it was. And I knew nothing. He bought some bottles that he brought back. And I was pleasantly surprised. Now, the thing with port, you can drink that in very small quantities.
I mean, it's, it's. Even tawny port. It's sweet. It's sweet. It's it's a it's like a dessert. It's a good after dinner drink. Yeah But it's not something you can drink in volume, but we should do a port on the pod We should it's actually quite
**Bam Bam:** nice with a cigar.
**Pagoda:** Would it be? I don't know. I do have the grams grams I think of the brand grams port the tawny.
**Senator:** Nice. I think with like a Full body Nicaraguan cigar because a poor, it's like, it's like concentrated wine basically. It's like thick, right? [00:46:00] Viscous. Maybe when we get to
**Bam Bam:** that 85th or 85 year Padron, we'll smoke it with that.
**Gizmo:** Hmm. That's not a bad idea, man.
**Bam Bam:** If we ever get that.
**Gizmo:** So let's talk about the history of Angel's Envy.
I know we probably touched on this quite some time ago. It's almost a hundred episodes now, but uh, obviously it was founded in. Louisville, Kentucky by bourbon hall of fame, member and master distiller, Lincoln Henderson and his son, Wes Henderson. And I guess they made their name by maturing their whiskey and charred oak barrels, which is something that Pagoda, you were talking about being an interesting part of their history.
And then they transfer it to secondary finishing casks, uh, obviously creating what they think is a distinct blend of refined complexity. As we talked about during the aging process, 5% of the spirit lost. Each year is known as the angels share. After tasting their finished whiskey, the founder Lincoln joked that they had finally struck a better deal than the Angels, and so [00:47:00] Angels Envy was born, and that has been.
Their motto and ethos since their founding. And now they have a pretty damn popular bourbon out there. And it's performing well tonight. But Gordon needs to say something. Yeah, no, I do, I do. No,
**Pagoda:** because you brought about the child oak barrels. You know, it's a legal requirement for a bourbon. That it needs to be in a charred, uh, barrel.
And, uh, I think Angel then reuses new barrels and they, they talk a little bit about, uh, charring on the website. So if you're a listener, just, I really found this very interesting that they'll take these new barrels and, um, you know, the different. types of levels for charring, and they'll do about 15 seconds or 30 seconds.
So it's not been that much. But apparently when they will char these barrels, you know, the wood after burning has some chemical reactions, which actually provides the flavors. In fact, in one of the episodes, you talked about experiencing this coconut flavor. Um, for a bourbon. I like, I don't know. It's, [00:48:00] it's one of the past.
Oh, interesting. Yeah. I remember this. Yeah. Cause I was
**Senator:** getting the coconut note and he, he read the notes and I was like, shoot, I wanted to call that out. Take the, take the credit, Bam. Correct.
**Pagoda:** No, but you know, it is, it's a, it's a really a result of the charring. It's one of the levels where you char that you do get a little bit of the coconut flavor.
So it's really interesting that You know, when all these processes do matter so much in terms of what the final product is. Yeah, cool. That's fantastic. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** It is amazing to me too. You know, when you talk about, obviously they manufacture a lot of bourbon, right? They're probably one of the biggest out there right now.
Of course, aside from the standard, you know, bourbons that we all know, but they're making a lot of bourbons. They're in every bar. Every bar. Every single bar and to make something that is so consistent and you're constantly refining and and very affordable the product and Making it that you know in a price point that's affordable I think 50 like like we said is a little high on the [00:49:00] kind of bar bourbons, right?
I mean you're
**Bam Bam:** a fan of that. That's a great price
**Grinder:** It's a younger brand right? But it's but the guy, you know, he's been around a while. He's like a master Blender. He's in the bourbon hall of fame. Lincoln. He, he blended Woodford reserve and gentlemen, Jack, you know, he's a big
**Gizmo:** deal.
**Grinder:** Yeah.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah.
**Grinder:** He
**Bam Bam:** knows his stuff.
That gentleman Jack is something that is worth trying. I've had it. We haven't done that. Very nice and smooth. We all like the Woodford reserve. Oh yeah. It's a nice grinder. Oh yeah.
**Senator:** The other thing, the bottle don't laugh. It's so iconic. I just feel like it's, Any bar, you'll always spot a bottle of Angels Envy.
And I like that they did something very unique from most bourbon bars. It's a
**Gizmo:** box pressed torpedo, like I said. It's like a figurado, actually. It's just like the cigar we're smoking.
**Bam Bam:** It's a nice presentation.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. So, boys, we're past the halfway point here on the aging room. Quattro Nicaragua Sonata in Maestro.
What do you guys think? [00:50:00] I
**Bam Bam:** think the amount of smoke in the room is a testament to the combustion and performance of this thing, man. It's quite the chimney.
**Gizmo:** I
**Senator:** love this cigar.
**Gizmo:** Me too. I'm very excited about this cigar right now.
**Senator:** I think the last third, like, just a notch, picks up a bit in flavor, just a little bit in strength, but, uh, But it's not overwhelming.
No, not even close. smooth.
**Bam Bam:** I just, And that's really, that's a mark of an elegant cigar. Yeah,
**Rooster:** I almost feel like the draw is too open. It is open. I like a little bit of resistance on the draw. Resistance, yeah.
**Gizmo:** Slight. It's very open. I wonder if that is a, is a product of the American smoker. Expecting a wide open draw on their cigar, you know, because you do talk about, you know, I've talked to Cuban rollers who, you know, even when they leave Cuba, they, they really want some resistance in the draw.
They think it affects the flavor. Obviously it affects the combustion and probably the flavor, but the new world [00:51:00] smoker, I think, you know, when you sit in a lounge, if you're not a chimney, if you're not getting a, uh, if you, you know, you're experiencing something that has a little bit of a tight draw, I think that's a little bit of a turnoff to someone who's smoking only new world cigars.
Do you guys disagree with that? I don't know.
**Pagoda:** I kind of agree. I, I do think that after smoking a couple of cigars with a reasonable resistance, you have one of these that feels so good. It's just fantastic. And then if you're, Outdoors or if you're on your deck, I think cigars like these perform really well.
Sounds like a true American smoker. I am. Remember, I'm the new world guy.
**Senator:** I would, I, for some reason, I just think that box press New world cigars tend to have a more open draw. That's just been my experience. Like I even think of brands like EP Correo, they do a ton of box press stuff. The draw on 90 plus percent of EP Correos I've [00:52:00] had very open, very effortless, very easy to smoke.
I'm not sure why that's the case, but I just, anytime I pick up a box press cigar, I'm expecting a pretty wide open draw. And I actually like that. I mean, the amount of effort that sometimes it takes with certain Cuban cigars, I like when I can actually sit back and just appreciate the cigar and I'm not fighting just to get smoke or combustion.
**Rooster:** Yeah. Rafael Nadal. I saw a video of his talking to somebody and he mentioned when he rolls the cigar, when the cigar is round, the movement of air is different than when it's a box pressed cigar. Like the air is kind of moving in waves.
**Bam Bam:** When it's round?
**Rooster:** No, when it's box pressed. I see. Which, I mean, I don't know what the science is behind that, but it's, it's a different airflow.
That's interesting.
**Grinder:** Interesting. Interesting. Yeah, I, I think there's, I think, [00:53:00] um, you know, there's a bit of skill and diligence to roll a cigar with that kind of airflow that it's open and you have to know what you're doing and not, not that most rollers don't know what they're doing when, when they have a tighter draw, but you have to be, you have to have intention to, to, to kind of create and fold the leaves.
I think. from what I've seen to, to make that kind of draw. And, you know, I think it's just, you know, having good rollers and for a certain market maybe as well, because the popularity of a Padron, that's so open.
**Gizmo:** Yeah.
**Grinder:** Yeah.
**Gizmo:** You know, to your point grinder, I think that there's also something to be said about the quality of this role because it, it, it wasn't a cigar when we lit it.
I mean, I looked at all the feet of these cigars. There is a good amount of tobacco in the cigar. So to have that kind of, you know, the amount of tobacco that's in the cigar, to have this wide open draw in the box presses we're talking about, it definitely takes skill. I mean, they're definitely doing a lot of QC to make sure that these cigars are properly drawing.
**Bam Bam:** Getting [00:54:00] back to the uptick in flavor or body in this thing, that's true and it's very eloquently occurring. The retrohale, for me, has gotten smoother. It's really effortless for me now, where early on it was, there was a little bit of a, just a tight bitterness there, just a touch. But now I'm really enjoying the retro health.
It's unusual at this stage of the game.
**Gizmo:** I agree with you. I mean, I haven't had a moment of bitterness or weirdness on any aspect of it. Um, I think the thing that's improved for me, I mean, the cigar has improved as we, as we've gone. I think when we lit it, it was excellent. I think now it's excellent. I don't think it's moved to full.
I still think it's medium full, but through the nose in the retrohale, it's always been super smooth for me. And it's adding a lot to the cigar for me. You know.
**Pagoda:** Now, are you guys experiencing any, uh, black pepper in the retrohale? I am. Yeah. Not at all. So I, not at all. Actually
**Grinder:** not on the retrohale, on the
**Bam Bam:** finish.
Just in the finish? Yeah. But it's, it's, it's not a lot. I'm glad I'm not because it would disappoint me [00:55:00] if I get that note here in this cigar. For me, I'm not seeing that at all. But it's
**Grinder:** new. It's just, you know, I have, what, an inch and a half, I guess, left. It's a
**Rooster:** touch. I would say a touch of pepper. Just a, just a very
**Grinder:** faint, which is fine, yeah.
I kind of like pepper every once in a while, you know, like
**Gizmo:** I like a little bit at the right moments. I hate when I light a cigar, especially, like I said, Nicaraguan Puro. Scare me a little bit when we're doing a full Nicaraguan Puro, because it's like, what is this thing gonna be like? And to not have a pepper bomb on a Nicaraguan puro, like that in and of itself is something to celebrate because so many Nicaraguan puros, um, they're pure pepper bombs, you know, and that doesn't work.
**Senator:** That's where the blending is so important in the fact that The guy who started this brand is the master blender for this brand. He clearly knows what he's doing. Oh yeah.
**Rooster:** Yeah.
**Senator:** Kudos
**Rooster:** to him. I mean, the, the citrus has completely dissipated. It was just kind of in the beginning. It would be nice to have that citrus note, [00:56:00] like all the way through.
Like you really enjoy that. You should send us a pledge.
**Senator:** I'll say this. I like the transition. Yeah, I do too. I just say that because obviously anyone who's listened to this pod has heard me say, you know, I'm fine with a cigar that's consistent all the way through. It doesn't have to transition to be a great cigar for me.
I don't think Padron's transition a whole lot, like the Exclusivo and I love that cigar, but I do like with this cigar that like it started firmly medium, nowhere near full or even medium full. And you were getting more of those like berry and citrus notes and then kind of midway through you were getting more of the cocoa mixed in with still just a faint bit of those those berry and citrus notes.
And then I like that in the last third that's dissipated. And now you're just getting like cocoa and nuts and some earthiness and a little bit of spice, and it's picked up just a bit in strength. But I like that kind of three acts. Very, very smooth.
**Rooster:** Oh, sure. That's, that's what's unique about this. Would you say it's medium plus?
**Senator:** [00:57:00] Oh boy. I would say medium full. Like some should say medium rare. Plus plus.
**Gizmo:** So boys, we got some great feedback on our interview with Steve Saka from PCA. You know, I, I was very happy with how that interview went. Obviously we felt great about it at PCA. I think Steve is someone that we could talk to for 12 hours and still feel that there was a lot left to talk about.
I found him very intriguing, insightful, and I think for me, and I think what we heard from a lot of the listeners in the email was his openness and his honesty, not only about. His own business, his challenges, his struggles, but also his future. I think that that was really interesting as he opened up about, you know, we had just talked to him at PCA about him doing his will and the future, and
**Bam Bam:** then the
**Gizmo:** Cuban conversation as well, really was, was pretty eyeopening from someone who's making, you know, Nicaraguan cigars.
So, um, we got some great [00:58:00] listener feedback. I wanted to read it, just two of them. Uh, Lizard Sean, who we mentioned a lot, sent a really, really nice note. He said, Giz, I just finished the pod. It was a great episode. When I look back, it's pretty amazing to see and hear how your palates have changed since the beginning of the podcast.
I'm looking forward to getting a box of these. Sin Compromiso, Seleccion No. 4s, along with the box of the new Stillwell Star No. 22. That's another cigar that Steve launched at PCA this year. It was a great interview and I love how you merged it into the pod. The quality of Steve's cigars are up there with Padrone.
Of course he would never admit that, but I just had one of his other Stillwell Stars the other night. It was great. And the burn and construction were perfect. The interview gave dimension to the podcast and this just took it to another level. I thought it worked great. Thanks so much. Wow. Nice email from Liz.
Fantastic
**Bam Bam:** email.
**Gizmo:** And then I had another one from Lizard Seagull as he calls himself. Every time he signs in emails to us, he always says, as always lizard in training. Lizard Seagull.
**Bam Bam:** [00:59:00] Is that EDIV or is that another seagull in the world somewhere?
**Gizmo:** This is Lizard Seagull and he said, guys, what a fun and educational podcast today.
Awesome. So I love, I love hearing those kinds of notes from listeners and we got a lot of stuff and I'm sure we'll get some more as, uh, as time goes on and, uh, we'll, we'll go back to listener feedback. So the other thing I wanted to mention, a couple of programming notes. So obviously when I record the, Hey lizards, gizmo here thing at the beginning of the episode, where we preview the upcoming two months, our love
**Grinder:** for premium cigars.
**Gizmo:** That's the intro intro bam. The pre intro thing. That where we preview the upcoming two months of cigars. I obviously we record that well in advance and we listed some cigars in there, namely some short smoke special cigars. We had planned to do two short smoke specials in a row doing two Cubans and two new worlds Back to back for four cigars in two weeks because of the [01:00:00] success we had at PCA and the things that are happening now and the balls that are kind of starting to roll down the hill here.
We have a lot of momentum. So things have changed a little bit. So we are going to do those short smoke specials at some point, but we're having to push those back a little bit because we've got some really, really great stuff coming up. Put those
**Senator:** into your aging protocol,
**Gizmo:** put those cigars in the aging protocol.
We will get to them. I promise you that, but they're going to be pushed back a little bit. Which is actually the first time we've had to do that on the podcast. And it's just a, as a result of, uh, the stuff we got done at PCA,
**Rooster:** we really need to do more lens arrows.
**Gizmo:** And the other thing to note too, is that next week we're going to do the, uh, we're going to do the Cuban cigar, the Hoya de Monterey double Corona's.
And we're going to bring our interview from PCA with SD DuPont CEO, Alon Crave, Which was another great interview we did. It was about 30 minutes long.
**Grinder:** And
**Gizmo:** you know, that was something that just kind of happened on the floor. We met Alon and then we sat down with him and we had a great conversation. So [01:01:00] next week you can look forward to that.
I will say this when you're talking about the CEO of a. An accessory manufacturer, a
**Bam Bam:** luxury brand,
**Gizmo:** a luxury brand. I didn't expect to have the level of interesting conversation that we did with Alon and the camaraderie and the interest in cigars.
**Senator:** He's a total lizard,
**Gizmo:** total lizard. So we went into that, like, let's see how this goes.
And we walked out of there with a lot more than that, which we'll hear next week. So definitely tune into our interview with, with the CEO of SD DuPont, Alon Crave, next week on the pod with the Hoyo de Monterrey. Double Coronas, which BAM so kindly is providing is that right? That's what you
**Pagoda:** told
**Bam Bam:** us I'm just actually Acknowledging that now is that actually we love you Fantastic.
No problem. No problem. We
**Gizmo:** need you to bring 20. We're gonna distribute them I actually brought
**Bam Bam:** one tonight to smoke and see how the previews will say
**Rooster:** I hope you brought six, [01:02:00] one is the Opus Dubai after that, the same night. What are you going to fleece my collection?
**Bam Bam:** What are we doing here?
**Gizmo:** Why don't you bring both of those?
**Bam Bam:** We'll see what
**Gizmo:** happens.
**Bam Bam:** Sure. My cigars are your cigars.
**Senator:** So we had another listener email. Can we just cut a clip of that? Bam saying, my cigars are yours. I want a button to press. That should be on the intro. And
**Pagoda:** can you increase the volume? Because I think that came very soft. That was intentional.
**Gizmo:** So we had a, another great listener email.
I'm curious what you guys think about this. And I think it ties to, uh, The experience that we're having tonight, unique cigars, cigars, that are a little different than we expect. And the question was typically Nicaragua, Dominican Republic, obviously Cuba are thought about as the kind of premium areas where tobacco is coming from and rolled.
But obviously there's a lot more tobacco out there, [01:03:00] Costa Rica. Honduras, even the United States, as we talked about earlier with E. P. Carrillo. And it's interesting. And I'm curious what your guys are thinking. Obviously our, our sponsor now Fabrica 5 is manufacturing their cigars in Honduras with Honduran tobacco, which I think is as close to Cuban tobacco as I've ever tasted.
I'm curious what you guys think and what your experience has been both inside the pod and out with cigars that have tobacco coming from areas that are not Dominican Republic, Nicaragua, or Mexico. Cuba.
**Rooster:** Yeah. I don't think, I don't think I have a lot of experience with, uh, you know, that's not Dominican and, uh, Nicaragua.
I mean, so a lot of the tobacco does come in blending a lot of other cigars. Yeah. I don't know if I've ever smoked like a Puro, Honduran, pero or a Costa Rican p Yeah. I don't even know if there is one. I mean, maybe Honduran, yes, but.
**Grinder:** I think you're going to laugh at me here, but, but when I first, which is no [01:04:00] surprise, the, when I first started smoking cigars, I did have quite a few Rockies and Rocky actually, he, he sources.
You can cut off his mic now. Yeah. He actually sources. Love you Grindr. He sources a lot. From, uh, like Costa Rica and Sumatra and, you know, various places. And New Jersey. And New Jersey. Um, so, you know, and I always kind of appreciated them different, even Mexico. Mexico makes, you know, good leaf as well. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** Mexican San Andres rapper is on so many of the Nicaraguan's. I love those too. You know, we've had great experience with that.
**Grinder:** So I think, you know, the new world stuff is great because, you know, It encouraged, you know, just the market encourages a lot of these cigar manufacturers and blenders to source from different locations and they have experience of having their inventory depleted from various Sandinistas or revolutions.
So they know how to manage risk and display, you know, place risk at different areas of the [01:05:00] world so that they can still maintain operations. And I think that that chaos. Created this, this need for different geographies and I think it's kind of wonderful.
**Senator:** Yeah.
**Grinder:** Interesting.
**Senator:** I think for me, I, I probably years ago would have been much more particular or maybe even limited in my willingness to try tobacco from all these different regions that I'm much less familiar with.
And I think what I've come to appreciate is it all just comes down to blending. I care far less now where the tobacco comes from. As much as I care about who's blending it and, and kind of what they're doing with that tobacco. I mean, I say that, that Pledge of Allegiance we've talked about so many times.
I'll never forget Gizmo just reading off the different places that all the tobacco came from in that cigar. Incredible
**Bam Bam:** strata of locations. Right. Yeah.
**Senator:** And I'm sitting there saying, this is crazy. Like I honestly hearing it made me [01:06:00] skeptical. Of course. That the cigar was going to be great. And the experience we had with that cigar being so great It just completely changed my perspective that I'm not sure that, you know, any of us need to, or have want to pursue a puro from any one particular random country.
I think there are nuances in flavor that that tobacco can deliver when blended the right way in certain types of cigars that we would appreciate. That excites me and that I'm glad to see more experimentation happening. Cause I honestly, when I think back to. Years ago when I first started smoking cigars, I don't remember seeing tobacco from nearly as many places in blends from like prominent brands.
I mean, even Davidoff like gets experimental with some cool stuff. I feel like everybody is now doing a lot of this and I think it's produced some really unique stuff that we've come to appreciate.
**Grinder:** I think it [01:07:00] reflects you know, the maturity and growth of This hobby of ours as well, like a lot of, a lot of manufacturers manufactured, a lot of manufacturers have, you know, a particular leaf that is good as a binder, a particular leaf with a very distinct flavor.
And they're trying to, you know, expand their kaleidoscope of flavors to offer new, new different experiences for the consumer. And I think that reflects their creativity and to Senator's point, you know, the, the blending mastery of these guys.
**Gizmo:** I think too, I, I, you know, we've talked about this new cigar boom, right?
And, and to me, my perception for getting volume and sales and numbers and all that, I think the modern cigar boom to me is kind of what Steve Sokka touched on a little bit and what we're seeing with a lot of these manufacturers. If it's done Barton with Sokka, if it's E. B. Carillo, if it's our, you know, Fabrica Five and Hamlet Parides and Rob Isla.
Blending Honduran tobacco. If it's the CAO who has Brazilian tobacco in [01:08:00] there, you know, I think the modern cigar boom is coming down to cigar manufacturers, really trying to create a diverse line that talks to as many smokers as possible, especially. Cuban smokers who are currently feeling alienated.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah, well said. You
**Gizmo:** know, I think that that is, to me, the perfect cigar boom, is people going out and sourcing tobacco from other places and trying new things. And like we're experiencing tonight with a guy who owns a company and is just a blender, and getting to a guy like Steve Saka, who's, you know, As he said, you know, using a process that farmers don't appreciate because they're cutting off a significant piece of the plant to focus the flavor in a certain amount of the tobacco coming off that plant, you know, yielding less because of flavor, like that's a real interesting and different approach to this thing that we enjoy.
**Pagoda:** But this is very healthy for our industry, right? Meaning [01:09:00] this is our hobby and what's great about it is that the competition is increasing. There's so many new markets which are coming every day, are really healthy for the industry. I think it's putting pressure on even, you know, the traditionalists to go and try and experiment new stuff.
Davidoff came up with the new Maduro, you know? Yeah. And so it's really interesting where the industry is headed. It's really good for us. So listeners. Open yourself up to the world. Don't care where this tobacco comes from. Try different things. And you know, you may receive abundance. That was beautiful.
Let's end it now.
**Gizmo:** You know, and I think for as much shit as we've given Habanos for what they did with their pricing and the alienation of so much of their audience, it's kind of coming out of PCA and coming out of a lot of the conversations that we've had and we've set up and are going to be having in the future.
Bye bye. Bye bye. from foundation who did that amazing presentation on Connecticut tobacco, which blew my [01:10:00] mind. The, the wealth of knowledge that he has, and also the interesting stuff that's coming out of Connecticut that I think is going to again, enhance the industry. You know, there's, there's a lot of manufacturers that are looking to Connecticut rapper, To make a more mild or medium experience for the American smoker.
**Grinder:** Ecuadorian. And Ecuadorian too. I mean, I think, you know, climate change is, is well, like, I mean, that's, I don't want to harp on that, but like, that's a good example of like, well, the climate changed a little bit and it's not as abundant to use that word, uh, to, to grow, to grow, uh, Connecticut leaf in the, in the Connecticut River Valley, you know, maybe there's, maybe that there's parallels to different regions as well for that.
I don't know, but
**Gizmo:** I guess ultimately, like, I'm changing my mentality with Habanos from this pissed off, like, you've alienated us. Like, I think the product of that has been for us and a lot of guys in that Cuban cigar. culture. It's been an eye opening [01:11:00] experience because we've been forced to look elsewhere.
Obviously, we do this every week on the podcast, so we need 52 cigars a year, you know, to make this podcast go. But for us and for our listeners, it's been a real experiment with this new type of tobacco. And I think that's a beautiful thing.
**Senator:** And it's been a huge opportunity for these new worlds. Sure.
Marcus, I mean, When we were at PCA talking to a number of these guys who were saying that for the first time, it's like the floodgates are opening in other global markets that they're now looking at. Being able to distribute in, you know, imagine the day that you can go to Europe and get Padron cigars or Asia.
I mean, that's not the case right now, but fast forward 10, 20 years from now, I will not be at all surprised if you can walk through a shop in London and pick up some Padrons, like they're having these conversations because retailers are frustrated, not having Cuban access product to sell their consumers.
Sure.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, it's a good thing. So, you know, unlike what happened in the [01:12:00] nineties, as we talked about earlier, when aging room prior to Raphael Nadal buying it, you know, it was part of that cigar boom. I guess it was at the tail end of it. That was just a, you know, deluge of shitty cigars and most of them failed.
And the industry suffered for it. Whereas now I think the new entrance to the market are guys like Rafael Nadal, who fell in love with cigars, got really, really passionate about it and said, I want this to be my life. Obviously we have taken it in another direction and kind of the media way here. We fell in love with cigars.
We enjoy each other's company. We sit down and record each week, but it's kind of driven this more. Quality focused boom, I was about to say,
**Bam Bam:** access to new world cigars that are at an extraordinary level from the point of view of quality. I mean, that's a huge opportunity, not just for us, but worldwide.
Like Senator said earlier. Absolutely. Yeah. It's a good thing. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** So boys, what are you thinking about the aging room, [01:13:00] Nicaragua Quattro in Sonata? My fingers
**Bam Bam:** are gonna burn.
**Senator:** Yeah, not much left. All you have to do is, if the listener could see this room, every single lizard is smoking this down to the point that their fingers are almost burning.
Yeah, my eyes are
**Rooster:** burning.
**Grinder:** Why
**Rooster:** did you get so soft? So much
**Grinder:** smoke in this room. Well, we know why. Uh, no, I, I, I think it, I think it certainly picked up, uh, uh, gradually, very subtly, but gradually over, over the course of, of the smoke and a very good way, uh, just that slight pepper. Um, and the smoothness has been maintained though, which I, you know, it's, that's a, that's a wonderful, and the, the flavors, they, they didn't really get it.
muddled towards the end. It was still very full flavored. Um, and just overall, the experience was wonderful. So I'm grateful for the smoke and, and the time spent with you guys tonight. Yeah, it's great. Great cigar.
**Senator:** The thing I really liked the last quarter inch, I [01:14:00] think actually hits medium full. And it's important for me because we've all, I think, agreed that this is a very versatile cigar.
You could smoke this at many different points in times, but I was worried when I lit this cigar, could I enjoy this after a meal, after dinner? And the way this finishes, absolutely I could.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. Um, for me, when I began that final third from that beginning point to this half inch mark where I am now, it actually stayed consistent.
I didn't, didn't see an uptick in, in body. It still stayed very, very consistent for me.
**Gizmo:** Me too. I, I didn't experience any of the pepper that was kind of touched on a little bit.
**Bam Bam:** A little bit, but not much. I didn't have
**Gizmo:** any of that. And I still found it. I don't know if I would say it's medium full for me.
I'd stay medium for
**Bam Bam:** me
**Gizmo:** where it ended for me. I'm curious at this point, before we get into the ratings, is there any aspect of the cigar at this point now towards the end where we're Do you have any other cigars that you would compare it to? Does it at all compared to the EP Carrillo [01:15:00] Allegiance? Is it in line at all with the Pledge of Allegiance from EP Carrillo?
Is it in line with any other Nicaraguan we've ever had? Like, I'm curious, have you guys had any kind of thoughts about what it compares to?
**Bam Bam:** I can't think of another cigar like this, really. I
**Rooster:** think it's closer to the EP Carrillo line than anything else. Yeah, it's closer. If there's any similarities. That Allegiance
**Bam Bam:** is there, but This is, I think just,
**Senator:** just the allegiance if we were to pick a cigar, but I don't think the regular allegiance or the pledge, I don't think it's anything like either of those cigars.
And I still maintain that I, I think this has done something unique, which is why, like, that Allegiance we reviewed at PCA, I think we all felt that there was something unique about that cigar. There wasn't, like, an immediate, obvious comparison that we would make. And I feel the same way about this cigar, which is, I think, a huge testament to what, um, Nidal has achieved here.
And the
**Pagoda:** development has been very gradual, I think. For me, I think, it's just, You know, smoothly moved into a very nice space for me, and it's [01:16:00] been fantastic.
**Rooster:** Yeah, I mean, I've heard that Rafael Nadal, like, when he creates a new line or a new cigar, he kind of does not go after, like, a certain flavor profile, whether he wants to make it medium or stronger or mild.
He kind of, you know, blends the tobacco. And let the flavors be, you know, where they may be. He's not like developing like, okay, I want like a more cocoa forward cigar or, or a spicy cigar or a pepper, peppery cigar. So he just kind of blends it and he wants to use the best tobaccos available to him and, uh, see what
**Bam Bam:** happens.
That's hard to believe because I know they're doing testing along the way. Yeah. I mean, he's tweaking. He's tweaking the blend. You know, you do have to. Yeah, absolutely. So there's, there's some pursuit of a profile. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. I agree with that.
**Gizmo:** All right, boys. So before we get to the ratings, put on your Roach clips, I have one more listener email I want to read.
This is from a French listener, Lizard Matthew, which is very cool. Can you
**Bam Bam:** hand me your Roach clip please? [01:17:00]
**Gizmo:** And Lizard Matthew writes, Hi, uh, lizards. I love your podcast guys. The content you put out all your reflections about spirits and Stokies are a mine of gold. Please keep up the good work. This podcast needs to be known more.
I think cigars and spirits need deeper and longer exchanges between individuals to reflect personal tastes and cover the whole subject. Cigars and spirits deserve better. Then Instagram shorts and 10 minute influencer videos. Yeah, one of the things I
**Grinder:** like, I like about us versus others is that oftentimes when you look at a review of a, of a whiskey or a spirit or a cigar, they, they basically just regurgitate what the marketers tell them.
You know, and, and we take time to actually go through, you know, how we're experiencing over the course of an also typical,
**Rooster:** they, they light the cigar. Okay, we're going to come back to the first third, then the half, and then the final [01:18:00] thoughts. It's kind of quick. Yeah. You know, they don't really go deep into, and there's hardly, I mean, I don't know how many other podcasts are there where there's five or seven guys sitting in a room and just talking about a, about a cigar and a spirit for like almost two hours.
Yeah. You know, so. Not many. Which
**Gizmo:** is cool.
**Rooster:** Yeah.
**Gizmo:** All right, boys, it's time to do the formal liquor rating tonight on the Angels Envy Kentucky Straight Bourbon, the port finished version of it. Bam Bam, you're up.
**Bam Bam:** So initially I didn't like it. I was at a 7. But as it's opened up and it's gotten really flavorful, easy to drink, I'm gonna give this an 8.
Okay, Grinder. Yeah,
**Grinder:** I was really surprised. Um, I kinda got some floral notes towards the end there too. Oh yeah. And, uh, like I said, the nose was, was really pleasant and I don't like bourbon especially, and this is definitely something I'll drink again. And, you know, it's, Senator mentioned that the, the mixing thing, and it's definitely something forward in their kind of [01:19:00] persona, like they want to be a mixing, uh, uh, mixing spirit, but I could definitely buy this and sit.
you know, sit down on my deck and smoke a cigar and enjoy it. And I would, I would definitely buy a bottle of this. So I'm also, you know, an eight for me for a bourbon is a high score and that's, that's my score.
**Pagoda:** Pagoda. Uh, it's an eight for me. Uh, you know, uh, as opposed to Senator, I think I, I really like this with ice.
I've had this need a couple of times for some reason, this just works really well with ice for me. And, uh, yeah, it's, it's an eight for me. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** Okay. For me, it's a nine for sure. All right. A hundred percent. All right. I'm very, very happy with this bourbon. Um, I'm glad I drank it neat from the beginning. I'm glad I let it sit and open up.
I think the pairing with the cigar is excellent. Um, I would buy it again. I think this is something I would pair only with cigars. It's not a drink that I'm looking to mix or do something else with. Um, I'm very, very happy with it and I'm shocked with how well it performed with the [01:20:00] cigar tonight. I thought it was very, very good.
Senator.
**Senator:** I'm, I'm with most of the lizards on an, on an eight, a solid eight. I would definitely drink this again. I'm amazed that I would call this a sipping bourbon. I think, you know, grinder mentioning sitting out, you know, in his yard and having this with a cigar, I could see myself doing exactly the same thing.
I think the price point does factor in a little bit. I think, you know, at 50 something bucks, I That's a premium spirit, right? You know, most 12 year scotches are, you know, rain start in that 50 something dollar range. And, um, I think it's a shame, you know, I know why obviously they, they market this as a mixing bourbon because the sad reality is, I mean, most bourbon is mixed.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. Yeah. It's
**Senator:** true. The, the volume of bourbon is heavily in cocktails, at least in the United States it is. And so I know they must want, you know, to really be part of that conversation to move a lot of volume. But I think that. This is not something I would order to mix into a cocktail. I totally agree.
I think like number [01:21:00] one, how, how smooth, um, and easy drinking this is, uh, you know, you want something a little more robust to hold up to the flavors of a cocktail. So I would pursue probably a richer bourbon, but, uh, enjoy with a cigar. This is one of those few bourbons that I would pick up again. And I think would pair well with, with, uh, The overwhelming majority of cigars, even Cuban cigars, and I think we have a hard time a lot of the time finding a bourbon that we would pair with a Cuban because a lot of them can be overwhelming, improve, pretty intense in flavor and can dominate the flavor profile of a Cuban cigar.
And I think this is one of those rare bourbons that wouldn't fight a Cuban cigar would actually compliment it. So I'm going to, a strong eight would definitely enjoy this again. You know, I
**Pagoda:** do want to say that for me, like when I go to Angel's Envy and I see it on the liquor store, I typically pick up the rye.
For some reason, I really enjoy the Angel's Envy rye. And it's been, I think we did review that. We did. Yeah. And, um, [01:22:00]
**Senator:** and I don't think most of us love that rye. Yeah. Yeah. But I,
**Pagoda:** you know, I've always. Really, really enjoyed it with a couple cubes of ice and just like I have that need, not need, but, but ice just so that cools down a bit, it's fantastic, it's a bit sweeter, even though rye is supposed to be less sweet, I, I just, there's something about the rye I really enjoy, um, but this bourbon's been fantastic, um, yeah, an eight, yeah, fair score.
**Gizmo:** So boys the formal liquor rating on the Angels Envy Kentucky straight bourbon whiskey port finished is an 8. 2. I have a question Because I think that cigar you think it's a low rate. I think that rating is low And the reason why is exactly what senator just said let's put if we want to factor in price fine but for All the positive, I didn't hear anybody say a negative thing about it, except factoring in maybe ice.
Pagoda didn't have the experience, BAM didn't have the experience, Senator did, and then he went to NEET. I don't understand, and then when you're [01:23:00] saying that it pairs with a, it could pair with a Cuban cigar, how do you still land it an eight? Because this could be arguably the most versatile bourbon that we've had.
Two seconds. Go
**Bam Bam:** ahead. I, I, I don't think I would drink this with any Cuban cigar. Maybe the Maduro one. And that's it. And the E2 because they're fully bodied Cubans. But I disagree with that. I don't know. I feel like this is really well suited to a Dominican or a Honduran cigar.
**Senator:** I feel completely differently.
I would absolutely drink this with a Partagas D4. with frankly, most of the part of this line. Um, some of the parts there, there's a lot of cigar, Cuban cigars that I could see, maybe the rearing very well with this for sure.
**Bam Bam:** That'd be nice with this.
**Senator:** Um, so I, yeah, I, I'm not, I don't really feel that way. I think for me, why the price did factor in between an eight and a nine.
And I, I can see why Gizmo gave this a nine, because again, I would have given it a nine if it were maybe 10 bucks cheaper. And the only reason I say that there's so many great [01:24:00] spirits in the 50 something dollar category. And I wouldn't pick this up as often as many of those other 50 something dollar spirits, whether it's a scotch rum, cognac, there's a lot of other spirits that I would put ahead of this, but I would still happily drink this.
I mean, there is a place for it. But it just, I don't see this cracking my regular rotation in the way that many other 50 something dollars spirits that I would give a nine or even a 10 to are part of my rotation. So for me, that's why I rounded down to the eight and not the nine, but it's still a fantastic spirit.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, I'm just surprised again with everything we talked about at an 8. 2 for the versatility that we've all experienced tonight and how it paired with a lighter Nicaraguan, despite
**Bam Bam:** coming in here, all of us thinking that it goes back to personal taste, honestly, so I this is a fairly versatile bourbon. I don't think I'd have this.
I wouldn't have this. I mean, because of the sweetness with ice, [01:25:00] for me, it'd be great outside on a nice spring or summer day, fine. But I don't see, like I said, like Senator said, this would not slot in, in my daily or weekly or even monthly rotation. Price has nothing to do with it because I, I don't think it's very expensive.
Just for me, it just didn't hit all of my, all of my notes for me.
**Pagoda:** I think just typically, like for me, as an average consumer of whiskeys, I tend to, I
**Gizmo:** I think you're above average, but go ahead.
**Pagoda:** I do tend to gravitate towards, you know, away from bourbons and more into, really, uh, scotches or, or even rum. You know, I, I think I've developed a taste for rum, which I think you can get so many different types of rums for around the same price or lesser price.
Which are fantastic with cigars and, um, at least at this point in time in my life, going through a lot of these different liquors, um, you know, I think bourbon's just not a natural choice for me, but I'm sure for the people who enjoy bourbon, you know, this could [01:26:00] easily be a nine. I totally agree with
**Grinder:** that.
I mean, I, I definitely can see your sentiment there for sure. I think for me personally, I, You know, like I said, bourbon's not something that I especially, you know, am, am tuned to. Similar to what Pagoda said, I would rather, you know, reach for a scotch. Um, I do appreciate the versatility of it. You know, thinking about it, I probably could have scored it higher on the bourbon rubric, uh, for me.
Um, but at the end of the day, similar to what some of the other guys are saying, I just don't think I'd do it as frequently as I would with the other, with the other spirits. And, and I need to. isn't a bad score. An eight isn't a bad score. Uh, but I can definitely see why you might, you know, you think that it should be higher.
**Senator:** And I think of, you know, even when we travel, right? Like, you know, we go to Vegas or for PCA or some other event, you know, sometimes we will bring spirits that we may not readily find somewhere that we want to enjoy. Who, us? [01:27:00] And I just think of this stuff that we would, you know, pick up and how this would stack up against that and.
I think back to, you know, a recent trip that we took, we brought a Scotch, we brought Balvenie, we brought some rum, we brought, uh, brought some Havana club and we brought some Cognac. We bought, uh, brought Remy 1738. Do I think that this would crack into that rotation that we would ever bring with us? I don't know.
That's fair. And that's where for me, like the nines and tens are things that I would, I, I enjoy so much. I would want to bring somewhere that I can't get that. And I don't feel. As passionately about this spirit, but that takes nothing away from it in the sense that I'm glad I tried this because if I'm at an airport.
I never would have picked this up and now I would happily get an Angel's Envy bourbon. You're
**Gizmo:** at a cigar bar in Louisville, Kentucky, right? And you're having a cigar that you purchased at the shop next door. This is probably going to be one of the top choices. That's my point.
**Bam Bam:** Like I go to a lot of cigar parties in town where I live.
So if they [01:28:00] have a bottle of Glenlivet and they have a bottle of this, I may gravitate more toward this. That's a,
**Pagoda:** you know, uh, how about taking us along with you sometime? All
**Gizmo:** right, boys, it's time to do the formal lizard. We'll do on the aging room, Nicaragua, Quatro Sonata. Rooster, you're up.
**Rooster:** So I really liked the cigar.
I mean, I would definitely pursue a box or two of the, of this one and the other one, actually. I mean, I'm surprised that I have, I don't have any of these, but I would love to get some of the, the draw was wide open. The construction was phenomenal. The room was full of smoke and I think all of us enjoyed the cigar.
I mean, we smoked it all the way down to the, to the nub. So my rating on this, I'm going to give it a nine. Okay, Senator.
**Senator:** I was hoping that I wasn't next. I'm debating between a nine and a 10. All right. Before you go,
**Bam Bam:** the rare optimist
**Pagoda:** tonight, [01:29:00] but if Rooster gives it a nine, I think we all should give it a 10.
**Gizmo:** Pagoda. Now just watch out if he tries to change his rating. Okay. Only thing missing on this cigar was
**Rooster:** a pigtail. It would be a 10. You're all about
**Senator:** the optics. I have to do it. I'm going to give it a 10. Wow. Whoa. Awesome. The thing is that there's, there's nothing that I can find wrong with this cigar. I think it is truly one of the best constructed Nicaraguan cigars I've ever had.
It looks beautiful. The draw is flawless. The combustion is fantastic. I just, it checks all the boxes before you even light the cigar. And then the fact that you light the cigar, and I don't know that I've ever had a Nicaraguan cigar that I would describe as a three act play in the way that I would this cigar.
I mean, truly each third delivered something different. It's [01:30:00] true.
**Bam Bam:** I could see this as a three act play on
**Senator:** the price point. That's where I was going to go next. 12 is such a tremendous value for this. So I just think in the other thing, you know, at 12 bucks, I wouldn't just describe this as an enjoyable cigar or a good cigar.
It's a refined cigar. It's a complex cigar. These are words that normally you would only use to describe a cigar that usually commands a higher price point to get that experience at 12 to be able to say that confidently. I have to give it a 10. I think they've hit everything that they could have possibly sought to deliver in that cigar.
I would definitely buy a box of these. I will after this. And I'm already looking forward to the next one I smoke. Wow.
**Gizmo:** Well, I'm surprised me too. So I'm at a nine now The reason why I I think everything you just said is completely valid senator Uh, for me, the reason why I didn't go 10 is as I think about where this would [01:31:00] slot in for me, I don't think that this is going to enter a regular rotation, a daily rotation for me.
I don't see it substituting in where I've kind of slot other You know, Nick, uh, Nicaraguan cigars or Dominican cigars, you know, kind of following a Cuban. I don't see it replacing anything. And I think in my brain, the price is great. There's no question about that at 12 bucks, but in my brain, when I'm thinking 10, it's something that's going to immediately and permanently be in my rotation and it's going to take a lot for it to get knocked out.
So. For everything you said, you're 100 percent right, Senator. I agree with everything you said. I think it's a brilliant cigar. I think Rafael Nadal knocked it out of the park on this. I think it's brilliant.
**Bam Bam:** Yes, he did.
**Gizmo:** But it's not to the point where I'm going to substitute this in in my rotation. Very happy I have a box.
I might smoke two or three of these a month. But this is not going to be something that's an everyday cigar for me. So that's why it's a nine. I, I think it's brilliant. I think it's excellent. And I think every [01:32:00] listener out there, Cuban or new world is really, really going to enjoy the cigar. There's no question about it.
**Senator:** Can I have one thing you, you bring up an interesting point around where you would slot this in, how it would or wouldn't crack your rotation for me? The utility is, and I'll be very honest, I'm at this point, I'm, I'm certainly smoking more Cuban cigars than I ever have in my life. And because of that. It has definitely impacted how much I'm looking for as full flavored and experience as you get from a lot of Nicaraguans, even Padrones.
Wow. And. For me, the brilliance of this cigar in terms of where I would slot this in regularly, it's after I've smoked a couple of Cuban cigars and before I'm going to light up a drone. So it's your second to last
**Bam Bam:** cigar.
**Senator:** Let's call it's that transition into a full bodied cigar.
**Bam Bam:** It's a, it's a good concept.
And I like it.
**Senator:** The other [01:33:00] place for it is honestly, sometimes let's say I've had three or four Cuban cigars and. I'm looking at that full bodied Nicaraguan. I'm saying, do I really want this much strength or flavor at that point? And sometimes the answer is no, and I don't have anything else on me. And so I light it and it's still satisfying, but it's a little much for what I'm looking for.
This would close out the night for me after several Cuban cigars, not wanting to go all the way full. It won't
**Bam Bam:** overwhelm you.
**Senator:** And that would just satisfy me at the right level. To close out my night. So those are kind of the two scenarios that I do see this regularly slotting in for me personally. I like it.
**Gizmo:** Senator just said that this is a Padron killer in his rotation. You heard that? I
**Bam Bam:** heard that.
**Senator:** All right. We're going to tell George
**Gizmo:** Padron that.
**Bam Bam:** Could we record that? We're going to, we're going to lock
**Senator:** that down. I'll, I'll send you photos. I want that when
**Bam Bam:** I want to hit a button and just press that whenever I walk.
**Senator:** I'll send you photos while I'm having caviar with, uh, Raphael. [01:34:00]
**Bam Bam:** That's what we're doing. Pagoda,
**Gizmo:** he's angled his, his rating to get in good graces with Raphael to get on the Instagram. No, but you
**Pagoda:** know, very diabolical,
**Gizmo:** very calculated.
**Pagoda:** But who knows, Raphael might've changed the way he actually lives after listening to our pod with all these caviars.
He may be actually following you.
**Gizmo:** Oh, he's welcome. He's welcome to enjoy caviar with me anytime. Oh, so I got a question. I know we have a bunch of other ratings to do. I have a question for you. Serious question based on what you just said about you're smoking more Cuban cigars than you ever have.
Obviously, you just said you're not smoking as many padrones or maybe full cigars as you were in the past. Do you find that your palate? Given the travel, how many Cuban cigars, we've been in Cuba a lot. Do you find that your palate has adjusted in a way or that you're leaning more toward mild or medium cigars?
What is changing here?
**Senator:** Yeah, so I don't, I don't think my palate has changed. It is leaning a different direction. I just think that I've become more [01:35:00] sensitive to full bodied cigars than it was before and I say that because I crazily have told the story. Obviously, I've smoked for Padrone 80 is back to back in a sitting and was completely unfazed.
If I were to do that now, that would just be an overpowering amount of flavor in a session to have for those back to back. It's not something I would pursue where that was normal at one time. You know, when many Bambam was the one when he met me, you know, years ago at our lounge, do you only smoke Padron?
That was one of the first things he said to me. It's true. And that was because a full bodied cigar like that was really all I was pursuing. And because now I'm smoking so many firmly medium Cuban cigars. I'm more sensitive now when I'm having that full bodied cigar where I just want that as the closer.
I just want that as the build in flavor, but I'm not looking for that all the time in the way that I was before. So I just think because of that, a cigar like this, [01:36:00] when I'm smoking four Cuban cigars, And I'm starting to get sensitive then to a real full experience. This would slot in there. Now, if I'm having one or two Cubans, I'll light a Davidoff.
Then I'll light up a drone. That's perfect. But I think for me, it's just more because my range has expanded. I'm more conscious and more sensitive to when I'm having that full bodied experience in a way that. I was so desensitized to it before interesting.
**Grinder:** I think
**Senator:** that happens. I think Steve
**Grinder:** talked about that too.
Yeah, he did.
**Gizmo:** And I think Pagoda most recently has, you know, illustrated so many times that his palette, you know, not in line with what Senator saying as far as changing goes, but you know, it has changed quite a bit. And I think a little bit, you get towards that like brick wall and then you have to start walking back.
You know, so I, I was, that's why I was asking as I was curious how much of that walking back your, your palate has done, especially when you're to, to that conversation, I
**Senator:** think every one of us in some way has gone through [01:37:00] this. Of course. I mean, I remember, you know, BAM used to smoke the family reserve and I would almost
**Bam Bam:** exclusively,
**Senator:** right.
And I'd sing the praise of the XO Steven. I'm like, this is just a smoother delivery of that. If you smoke a lot in a night, that's true. And I think now you smoke far less family reserve than you ever did before. I
**Bam Bam:** haven't smoked a family reserve in many years.
**Gizmo:** I don't think I've ever seen you with a family reserve.
Yeah. Other than when we had it, you know.
**Bam Bam:** And honestly, because of the Cuban journey that we've taken, that's, that's where I'm firm, I'm firmly in. And when we get a cigar like this tonight, this is a really unique transitional cigar. That you can place almost anywhere,
**Rooster:** but if you're only going to have like one cigar, but you're the only one who only smokes once to go.
**Bam Bam:** So when you when gizmo mentioned we hit that brick wall rooster tears that down With a sledgehammer, okay No, but
**Rooster:** if you're just gonna have one cigar sometimes after dinner I want to have one cigar and then go to bed. I don't know what it's like Then I would have a family resort. I don't,
**Bam Bam:** so I don't disagree with him.
If I'm having one, I would like that to be a full flavored experience. [01:38:00] I would. Yeah. I mean, it's not like, it's rare that I just have one in a sit for me. Honestly,
**Senator:** many times, even we're at the lounge, we're like, let's just have one more cigar and we all have, let's have one more cigar. I mean, we just don't do that.
You're the only one that just smokes one or two. I can't do a lot of
**Gizmo:** patients.
**Senator:** You're an outlier rooster.
**Gizmo:** All right, Pagoda, your rating on the Aging Room Nicaraguan Quattro.
**Pagoda:** You know, uh, just considering this conversation, I must say, I have evolved. I've really evolved. No, I do, I do find my palate, actually.
I've really started enjoying, like, medium and even mild, and a lot of Cubans, and, you know, You know, I'm seeking, uh, different things at different points in time and what's really interesting about this cigar for, so for me, I've been debating between a nine and 10, but considering the 80, 20 principle where most of you have 80 percent Cuban and 20 percent new worlds, I have the other way around.
I have 80 percent new worlds and 20 percent Cubans.
**Senator:** Do it Pagoda. And so for me, [01:39:00]
**Pagoda:** it really slots really well. And considering the price point, I'm Indian. Um, 12 bucks goes, you know, a long way. And I think it's a 10. It's a 10. Thank you, Senator. You motivated me to give that score. Um, but yeah, um, you know, overall, I, I do think that cigar smoking, it's just a journey.
And, you know, it's not just one way up or one way down. You know, you go through these periods where you'll seek stronger cigars and full flavored and full bodied cigars. And, you know, The times you're going to seek something milder and, you know, more flavorful and medium bodied cigars. In this journey, where I am at this point in time, I think the cigar would really slot very well, and it's a 10 for me.
**Grinder:** Grinder. Um, I think, uh, I think when I, when I smoked the Sin Compromiso, I was, I was kind of shocked and I wasn't expecting much. And, and afterwards I was like, wow, that was an amazing cigar. This I had a [01:40:00] similar feeling with this cigar where I was, I didn't know what was around the corner and there was something very unique about it.
And that kind of immediately in my book puts it on a higher level, um, in the nine or ten range. So when I think about tens, I think about cigars that I can't find anywhere else that are. You know, have I all check all the boxes, smooth delivery, you know, the burn is great. The aroma is fantastic. The combustion, everything was, was really phenomenal.
Um, and, but when I compare it, I don't know what I, I'm trying, I was trying to reflect on what I gave this income for me. So I don't know if I gave it a nine or a 10. Um, does it matter? It does. Well, I think they're, they're comparable, uh, for what I'd reached for, um, and for, you know, the, the experience I had.
So. In this case, I'd probably give this a 10. Wow. Look at that. Look at that. I'll tell you, rooster a nine. My lord. And the thing that I, that I, that I liked about the cigar is that, um, [01:41:00] there were certain elements that I was expecting it to be monolithic or, you know, have a, have a continuous kind of burn throughout the, throughout.
And it just didn't, it just, it, it didn't. slowly changed. And I literally burned my finger. I had to put it down. Yeah. Same here. Um, we all, we all, we all burn. I've never, I've never had an experience where I did take it down that far and it was still something different. You know, it was still like, there was still, you know, if you compare the beginning draw to the end draw, there's, there's a great distance, but it was so gradual that.
I just kind of appreciated that journey. So yeah, it's a 10 for me and the price, you know, come on, it's similar. It's similar to these other new worlds for smoking. It's, it's, it's really enlightening. Um, and yeah, this is another box that I'll immediately buy. It's cheaper than a beer in New York city, by the way.
And it can, and it takes, it takes longer to enjoy 14 of them.
**Gizmo:** That's a problem. [01:42:00] That's a whole box. All right, Bam Bam.
**Bam Bam:** Uh, I'm at firmly at a nine here. Um, I think I'm in lockstep with what Gizmo said. I don't know how often I would have this cigar. Although, as I mentioned earlier, I stand firmly in the fact that this is a fantastic transitional cigar.
It could slot in almost anywhere. I just don't know how often I would reach for it. With a lot of the other cigars that we have access to. Someone at a nine,
**Pagoda:** you know, I was thinking about this. This is such a great cigar. You know, we are approaching the summer season. We are gonna be golfing this because of its combustion.
Oh, this is a great, you know, we, we've talked about outdoor two cigars, great outdoor stuff. This could be a really good outdoors cigar as well. Yeah, yeah. It's robust. It'll hold up.
**Grinder:** Yeah. I think there, there are a lot of cigars that I've given tens for that. I have a standard rotation for it. It really is like right up my alley.
And this is just very different, you know, and, and I don't know how much I'm going to reach for it over, let's say, you know, I'm really, really smoking a lot of late hours right now. That's [01:43:00] basically, I'm, that's, I'm smoking a lot of those.
**Pagoda:** Well, just a couple of years late, but
**Grinder:** yeah, a couple of years late. Um, and the, The, I don't know if it's going to be a displacer for anything like that, but because of how unique it was and because there's these flavors that I just can't get, I've never had experienced anywhere else.
Yeah. It's, it's, it's in its own category. You
**Rooster:** don't give out a lot of tens. I don't. He does not. If he'd look at you. There's the
**Bam Bam:** young man to his right, Mr. Senator,
**Senator:** I'm feeling vindicated.
**Pagoda:** I'll tell you, I was between a nine and 10 because, you know, you, you go through this process when you're really evaluating a cigar, how often are you going to reach out?
Uh, but, uh, you know, like I think we were in Panama when I smoked, I said, you know, this was a, you know, pleasant, pleasant experience. Pleasant cigar. Yeah. What a great delight. And I think we talked about it. Um, yeah, I'm surprised, but this was
**Bam Bam:** really good.
**Pagoda:** To one
**Bam Bam:** thing regarding the rating, like a 10 overall in [01:44:00] this room, I don't think it's a perfect cigar for it to, to have a 10.
0 across the spectrum of all of us. I think the composite rating is going to be very, very fair and accurate. And bam,
**Gizmo:** that composite rating, the formal lizard rating tonight on the aging room, Nicaragua, Quattro Sonata in Maestro. Is a 9. 5.
**Pagoda:** Dude. Wow. That
**Gizmo:** is
**Pagoda:** a
**Gizmo:** perfect. That's a perfect score. Perfect
**Pagoda:** for a 12 buck cigar.
You can't complain.
**Gizmo:** Perfect cigar. I
**Pagoda:** think that's a great composer.
**Senator:** I think, I think it's the most complex 12 cigar I've smoked period. 100%. I agree with you. 100 percent
**Bam Bam:** agreed.
**Gizmo:** So boys, let's talk about the other cigar and bourbon that we did in these lines on episode 35. We did the aging room quattro, uh, Nicaragua and espressivo that got an 8.
8. So this scored. Seven points higher than that. And then on episode 41, we did the angels envy rye, the Pagoda referenced, and that got a 7. 5. So tonight's bourbon scored [01:45:00] seven points higher than that as well.
**Rooster:** All right. Consistency. We should do the torpedo and, uh, with the orange label, the monster. We should line that up for the future here.
I
**Gizmo:** mean, I'm very, very impressed. And I'm, I'm curious where. Uh, Raphael and aging room is going to go in the future because to me, he's trending up.
**Bam Bam:** Oh, absolutely.
**Gizmo:** You know, and I'm curious, given the unique model of, he doesn't really have regular production cigars, at least my perspective of how he's done things, he keeps iterating and he keeps releasing new things.
Obviously. Yeah. He's doing contract work with these manufacturers. I don't know if this is going to be a cigar that sticks around for three years. We hope so. Or 10 or if it's going to be a, you know, here and gone and something new is going to come. So I'm really interested to see where this is going to go for him and how his blending and his palate are going to align with ours in the future.
It's going to be really interesting to watch.
**Bam Bam:** Do we know how many sticks he sells annually? I do not know the answer. I wonder how substantial his business is.
**Gizmo:** I haven't seen any info on that.
**Bam Bam:** That's
**Pagoda:** a hard figure to come by. Yeah, but, but [01:46:00] Asian rub is omnipresent, meaning most
**Grinder:** of them are out there. And they're still everywhere.
That's true. Yeah. If you look at the cigars that Altidus distributes, though, you know, there's not a lot of shining stars and this is This is definitely
**Gizmo:** on the higher end of their, uh, portfolio. All right, boys, a great night tonight on the Angels Envy Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey Port Finished. We had an 8.
2, and on the cigar, the Aging Room Nicaraguan Cuatro Ensenada Maestro got a 9. 5.
**Grinder:** Excellent. I
**Gizmo:** mean, that doesn't happen very often. No, it does not. A 95? Incredible. That's pretty amazing. All right, boys. Good being with you. We'll see everybody next week. Hope you enjoyed this episode. Thanks for joining us.
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