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This weeks podcast explores the romance and reality of hunting with horses.
Aside from being an all around knowledgeable and entertaining guy, Rob Chipman also knows a thing or two about horses and hunting with them.
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The Silvercore Podcast explores the mindset and skills that build capable people. Host Travis Bader speaks with hunters, adventurers, soldiers, athletes, craftsmen, and founders about competence, integrity, and the pursuit of mastery, in the wild and in daily life. Hit follow and step into conversations that sharpen your edge.
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I've
received a couple of messages
with Silvercore Podcast listeners
and Silvercore Club members
wanting to know the ins and
outs of hunting from horseback.
This is an area that I
don't have any knowledge on.
So I reach out to my animal, loving
eating an acro Buddhist oppositional
defiance disorder friend, Rob Chipman,
Rob, welcome to the Silvercore Podcast.
Thanks, Travis.
Um, it's exciting and scary to be here.
I'm looking around this fantastic
studio and I'm thinking, who is
this guy who is living the dream?
It's like my own personal
Joe Rogan experience.
It's pretty impressive.
Um, so yeah, thanks for having me.
I should preface this by saying I
am in no way, any kind of expert
about horses or horseback hunting
or frankly hunting in general.
But, uh, I do get my, I do get my
nose dirty on it, so I probably
have some insights that I can.
Well, I should also preface this by
saying that the topic of talking about
horseback hunting was really just a hook
to get you on the Silvercore Podcast,
because you are such a wealth of knowledge
of hunting and so many other things.
And I figured if I could just pull the
core coat, it gets you on a roll man.
The wisdom that you have been
able to dispense over, simple
conversations that I've had with you
in the past has been pretty good.
So if we can distill that and put
that into a podcast, and if it just
happens to be from, I don't know,
starting a boat, talking about horseback
hunting and seeing where that goes.
Awesome.
That is, that is funny.
Um, so, so
horses, I mean, so, okay.
I, I look at this and I say, I've
got a side-by-side I got some quads.
I fueled them up.
They work when I need them to work.
As long as the batteries charged and
things are running as they ought to.
Okay.
That's easy.
Like there is a romantic idea
to riding on a horse, but what
a pain in the ass, it has
kind of been in the ass.
There's no question about that.
Um, you know, same thing, I've
got a couple pickup trucks, I've
got a little Suzuki sidekick, I've
got a quad, used them all canoe.
I've flown into places and, uh, you know,
all these things get you to the trail.
Head horses are a whole new level.
Um, not a whole new level.
They're a whole different level as a kid.
Like a lot of people that do what we do,
you know, I read books about explorers
and trappers and things like that.
And there was an image that
it would be really cool to do.
What mountain men did, you
know, go west, find some.
Indigenous people make a trade for
them, gets them horses, go up into
the mountains and do whatever.
And, uh, it takes a
while for that to happen.
As a, as a teenager, I
know an old guy, right.
So long time ago, I started.
I wa I wanted to go ride some
horizontal trail ride, so saved up
some money, went on a trail ride.
Yeah.
It's kind of boring.
You know, some teenage girl leads you
around and you go in a file and, but
you're riding a horse, so that's good.
Kind fun.
Right?
Yup.
A little later I ended up living
in central America and I got
access to a horses down there.
Two different types of horses there.
There's a, there's a kind of
horse called Andalusian, which
is a very well-bred nice horse.
And they have a specific
gate and rich people on them.
Okay.
And then there are little jungle horses
that if you're out in the jungle,
you might get on top of, in there.
They're tiny, they're smaller
even than horses around here, but
they're very good, very tough.
And you know, as a, as a teenager,
you go out and somebody says, Hey,
you want to get on these horses.
We just brought them in from
the, from the mountains.
They're all covered with ticks and you
ride in a bare back and they're a little
bit crazy, but you're young and it's fun.
Sure.
And then you go to.
And you have a career and you do
it forever and ever, and ever.
And if you're not creative, like
me, you just put your nose to
the grindstone and pay the bills.
And then like 2016 comes along.
And in that year I made a deal
with a long-term employee to
sell them half of my business.
Okay.
It's on a five-year buyout.
Yeah.
So he bought half and we did a
five-year transition at which
time he would buy the other half.
And the reason I bring that up is
because 2016 was a time when I said
I'm going to be moving into retirement.
What will I do?
I should buy a vinyl sided rancher
in Qualicum beach and mow the lawn.
Okay.
That was a very attractive,
very attractive.
I can see that I said so I
should do some other stuff.
And, uh, one of the things I
wanted to do was I wanted to do
more hunting and more exploring.
I've always, I've always had the chance.
I've always, I've always taken advantage
of the, the opportunities to go explore
new areas, go do cool stuff, outdoors,
you know, go diving, go traveling through
the desert, go into the jungle, go into
the mountains, do all that sort of stuff.
Yeah.
It's a lot of fun.
Um,
I got in touch with a character.
Um, a lot of people recognized the name,
his name's, Larry Woodrow, I Alma lattes.
I recognize the name, respect
the guy, very grateful to him.
Um, and yet his name will come up around
campfires in the strangest places.
Guys go, oh, you know, Woodrow do.
Yeah.
Anyway, I, I had some friends and we
wanted to do some sort of epic, uh, hunt.
And so I, I emailed Larry and I
said, we want to do an epic hunt.
What's the best thing to do.
Should we fly in somewhere or
should we take some horses?
Cryptic email comes back mile 2 74,
Alaska highway rent the horses from Stan.
I've got the maps go in light, come
out heavy if you know what I mean.
Okay.
I guess float planes.
Aren't the way to go.
You'd go with horses, right?
I don't know who Stan is.
I don't know what we
do about a week later.
He sent me another email and he
said, every year I organize a
ride along the Fraser breaks.
There's no fee it's by invitation only.
Here's your invitation?
Nice.
Like, okay, good.
So I went on that trip with him and, uh,
I turned up and the first morning there's
a rancher up there who rents horses to
people who don't know what's going on.
And he had a young girl working
for him and she was riding this old
horse and she said, this is ginger.
This is who you're going to be riding.
She's a little bit rank.
So I would just ride in
the Bronx, out of her.
Okay.
And of course I look at her, I go, okay.
Yeah, you're just, you're
just ribbon the new guy.
So that's fine.
It's early in the morning.
Everybody's getting ready and
you don't want to be late.
So I'm looking at the horse.
I'm ready to go.
As everybody's getting organized.
And I asked Larry, Hey,
everything here looked good.
And he comes over and looks at the horses.
Yeah, it looks pretty good.
Uh, I think I would
tighten up that rear cinch.
Okay.
So he does tightens it up a little bit.
Okay, great.
Comes time to go saddle up,
swearing up into the saddle.
This horse starts bucking a little bit.
I'm really clear.
My job is to stay on top of this horse.
So my feet are in the stirrups.
I'm out of the saddle
in front of the horn.
The horns pushed up my rear end
and the girl who had been making.
Riding the bronc out of her is Patra fide.
Oh no, she's not.
She's she's going.
Oh no, this is, you know, and I
could tell she hadn't expected this.
We get it straightened out and
somebody goes, oh yeah, no, she's
a, she's a really good horse.
She doesn't like that
rear cinch being down.
So that was good.
Went through that spent a weekend.
There did some great riding, saw, saw
some fantastic stuff and then went
away to see a guy called Stanwell.
Lives in McBride has an operation
called blue Creek outfitting.
Right?
You go up there.
I think I spent a week
or something like that.
And you go to his farm, his ranch, his,
whatever he's got, he's got, you know,
120, 160 acres in McBride, beautiful area.
If you ever have a chance to be
up there in the summertime when
the days are long, it's fantastic.
It's nestled in the it's
nestled in the mountains.
It's just unbelievable.
Very small town.
Make sure you got everything
you need before five o'clock
has everything shuts down.
But anyway, went in there and
took the course from Stanford.
What Stan does is he teaches you a little
bit about horses, teaches you how to put
pack saddles on horses and do a double
diamond hitch and, you know, weigh packs
and all that kind of stuff, hobble horses.
And at the end of the course, he
lets you take a saddle horse and a
pack horse up into the mountains up.
You go and you go up there and you
can all your own or with a group or.
It's your choice.
So, you know, you've been with these
people for a week, hanging out, Catherine.
She say, okay, let's all, you
know, we'll all go up together.
And it turned out that we all
went together and it was fine.
We got up there and we can't
go up to a place called Mount
Lucille, beautiful place.
Get up over the tree line and you're
in the Alpine and go up there camp
overnight next day, ride around
fool around and spend another night.
And then you come down, came back,
went for the next ride with Larry.
And he said, how'd it go, Stan?
He said, yeah, I think we're went okay.
Right.
Well, did he say you
could rent the horses?
Oh, I have no idea.
I wasn't paying attention
and Larry's gone.
That was the whole point called them up.
Sure enough.
He'd rent me the horses.
I was a little bit dumbfounded
because I'm thinking this is too easy.
You're going to give me
a bunch of your horses.
I'm going to go into the
woods for a week or 10 days.
And you're going to say good luck
and I'm going to bring them back
and we're all going to be okay.
Yup.
That's what we're going to do.
Nice.
Okay.
So we did that and, uh, went out
and, uh, did a trip with a few of my
friends and, uh, their sons and we were
out moose hunting and it was great.
We're not really successful with it.
Sure.
Um, but it was okay.
And it's a lot of work.
And I guess I can explain
a bit of that later.
Um, later we did another trip where
we rented the horses from Stan
and we went up to these lake and
then we went down the Jade road.
And after a while of going down the Jade
road, some people will know this, but just
south of just south of DS lake, there's
a little camps that I think it's a 10.
River campsite or something like that.
If you've been to these lake, you'll
know you come down a long hill, about
four miles, five miles before it he's
like, and it's on other right outside.
Sure.
So we go in there and we cap and there's
a road there called the Jade Boulder road.
And I think on one of the reality TV
channels, Uh, show that shows guys
getting Jade out of the mountains and
that's that road takes you to that area.
It goes all the way up over the, over
the, the, the hill or the mountains on
the, uh, on the east side of highway 37.
And it goes to, it goes all the
way down to the Turnagain river.
And so we went in there and we're
hunting caribou and we took the
horses in and got some Caribbean came
back and, uh, it worked really well.
It was funny because
Stan, Stan's a great guy.
Um, and he'll make all kinds of deals.
I don't know if he's still renting
horses for guys to go out the woods he
used to, but he's getting older now.
He does still do the clinics because
I've seen on social media that he's got
some younger people helping him out.
Okay, good.
Uh, yeah, we, Stan said, oh, you
know, do you think you guys have a
truck that might be able to pull it.
And so we arranged that.
So we go up and it's, it's pretty
hands-on and, and, and up close and
personal with him because he takes
one trailer with a bunch of horses.
We take another trailer with a bunch
of horses and away we go start driving
from McBride, through prince George.
We stopped overnight and Smithers found
a place to, uh, find a place to keep the
horses, ran into a rancher there who once
he heard that we had horses, he said, oh
yeah, I'll hook you up, come down here.
And he put us on a piece of his property
and we had the horses overnight.
Next, next night, we went up to Dee's
lake and we went, and so it was great.
Come back after a week, give the
horses back to Stan and then he
just moved them onto somebody else.
He would, he would rent them out
to guides and things like that.
So it was good time.
Um, what's involved, right?
Again, I'm not an expert, but I've
learned a few things about horses
because after those trips, um, I
ran into, uh, we're doing another
one of the rides along the Fraser.
And I was up there early and a lady
turned up and she drove in and saw
new car come in and said, oh, here's
a new person who is coming down.
And she started walking down
and I go, I recognize her.
She's the sister of a
friend of my brothers.
And I had met her on the west
coast of Vancouver island.
Cause we were out salmon
fishing and she was around.
So bumped into each other.
Oh, there you go.
At that time, Larry was getting a
little bit past organizing the rides
and he wanted to hang out, hand it off
to somebody else to organize the ride.
So he had it off to, to pat and
I, and we've, we started doing
that few hiccups with COVID and
fires, but that's what we do.
And we're doing it again this year, but,
uh, I got together with her after the
ride and said, okay, we better organize
what we're going to do for next year.
There's not a lot of
organization going on.
So we met for coffee.
We talked about that
for about five minutes.
And then I said, what's new.
And she said, I bought a horse.
Really do tell.
Yeah.
So she told me what the deal was, how she
bought the horse and where the setup was.
And so I went down there and next
thing you know, I'm talking to
the guy who runs it and he says,
yeah, I've got a horse here.
I'd sell.
Yeah.
This one's probably pretty good.
He could do what you need them to do.
Go take them for a few rides.
See what it's like, I'm still a
bit of a neophyte in horses, but
I took them out, rode them around.
And I said, well, will he like
walking the Blackberry bushes?
If I tell him to, he would,
he'd go in until it was gone.
You know what, buddy?
This is getting a little much, you
know, Willie go and circle around trees.
Can I take them up to a gate
and try and open the gate?
Things like that.
Um, probably not stuff that you'll find
in a horse book that says, here's how
you, here's, how you evaluate a horse.
But he was clearly, he was clearly a
very willing and well-trained horse.
So I said, okay, I think I'll, I think
I'll buy this horse, went down to the guy
and said, okay, I've got the cash here.
I'll, I'll buy the horse.
And he said, I don't know if
I really want to sell them.
Oh, come on.
And I'm going after all that, I've got
the cash in my hand, you're supposed
to play hard to get beforehand,
already down for doing this.
Well, the fact was he was a good horse
and, and the guy who had them Darcy liked
them and kind of wanted to keep them.
And he was afraid I was
going to take them away.
And so when I said, no, I'm
not going to take him off.
He'll be around here.
If you want to use them, you
can use them any time, you know?
Cause he was boarding the horse for me.
And so we worked out and we got the horse.
I've still got him to this day.
He's he's he's he's, he's getting older.
Sure.
Every time I have, uh, the vet grind
his teeth or check them out, they say,
yeah, this whole, this horse really.
I looked at him and I say,
he's like me, he's old.
He still goes out and does it when we go
out in the mountains and we're growing
up, but he'll he, I have to hold him back.
He, he really, yeah.
He loves it out there.
Okay.
So we did that, bought a horse
and, and, and got involved in it.
Yeah.
And, uh, and it's been great.
And so I take him out and, uh, for a
while I had a couple, I had a good pack
horse as well, but I I've split that
with my, uh, with my other partner.
She's got her own way with
him with, with that mirror.
So anyway, we're doing that.
Who can do this?
Anybody who does any kind of back country
hunting, anybody who drives the pickup
to the end of the four wheel drive
road and throws on a pack and walks
into the woods and, you know, spends
a few nights back there can do it.
Anybody who flies in on a float plane can
do it, but there is a lot of work, uh, And
there's different ways that it looks like.
And there's a question of where do you
get your horses and what can you do?
So how should I best describe that?
When, uh, when I took the, uh, when I
took the course with Stan, one thing
you do is you learn about horses and you
learn how to hobble them up, cause you
don't want them to run away at night.
So you actually hobbled their legs.
You hobble their legs.
There's a there's
different types of hobbles.
The ones I was introduced
to were chain hobbles.
Okay.
With a little bit of
bicycle tube around them.
Okay.
Uh, you know, bicycle, inner tube around
the parts that go around the, the horses.
Ankles, you're locking up your
horse at night, locking up your
horse at night, but of course
horses figure out how to do that.
So sometimes you tie them up as well.
It depends.
A lot of guys will just say, you know,
what, make sure that you camp on the
home side of the trail and put the
horses on the wayside of the camp.
So that way at.
If they come walking through the
camp, you'll hear them and you'll
know you can catch them because
otherwise there'll be far away.
Well, can they, they can
still walk with the hobbles.
They can still walk.
In fact, uh, in one of the trips,
we brought them back to a buddy's
ranch and we hobbled them up and
set them loose outside the little
fence area where his cabins are
and they came back and they jumped.
Offense with hobbles.
Wow.
I have chased horses.
I don't know how long, but I've
chased horses on hobbles a long time.
They can figure it out long enough that
when you finally catch up with them yeah.
You're winded and you have to fight the
urge to punch the horse in the hand.
It's fairly frustrated.
You'll be so angry.
Yeah.
I won't use profanity, but you will.
If you're in that
situation, I could see that.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But that's fine.
Horse stands.
Horses are, are well-trained
and they're good.
They're good.
They're good workers.
Um, but when they stop working,
they know, they know the Workday's
over and they get up to there.
They get up to the things.
So what I learned from that
was, okay, it's not a problem.
You get down in front of these
horses hoops, and you put hobbles
on them and you try not to get
kicked or pushed over or beat up.
What I learned later is Stan's
horses are really well-trained.
Uh, okay.
Not all horses will do that.
Um, I tried that with my, uh,
with my gelding flash and I
threw some hobbles on them.
Yeah.
And, uh, of course being the kind of
guy I might did it while I was alone
and I had him on a lead and I put on the
hobbles and he did not like him at all.
And so I had a rodeo on the end of a,
of a 10 foot lead line and I had to
figure out how am I going to get these
hobbles off this horse or that horse has.
Right.
Flash, calm down.
I'll fix you up.
And he did, and I took him off.
Same thing happened with pack boxes.
For some reason, I thought
that he knew how to pack.
And I thought that I put
pack boxes on them before.
And, uh, I was confused.
I'd put them on the mirror.
So I put them on him.
Yeah.
He didn't like him.
He took off for a run and I had a
chain sign gas and everything in
the pack boxes already went off
for a run through the trees, spread
everything all over the place.
It was quite, it was quite, quite fun.
Somebody else in the camp set,
I thought we had a grizzly
bear coming through the camp.
Well, how do you get
the horseback when it takes off?
And you like that?
You just hope and pray
that well, you know, horses
are like a lot of animals.
If you have a good relationship
with them, they're, they're a
willing part of that relationship.
So in this particular case, flash,
my gelding was all worked out.
But when I said, Hey,
relax, I'll fix you up.
He looks at me.
He goes, okay.
I trust you.
And so he slowed down and I caught him and
I fixed them up, but it was a nightmare.
No kidding.
It was, it was a lot of fun.
Um, so if you want to hunt from
horses, there's two ways to do it.
I guess one is that you get on a horse
and you just go walking through the woods.
And if you see something you're
going to say, I'm going to stop.
I'm going to tie up the horse and
I'm going to, you know, I'm going
to figure out how I can maybe
make an approach on this animal.
Um, another way that looks is you
get on the horse and your ride
out of camp and you go to an area
that you want to hunt and you tie
up the horse and then you go hunt.
So for instance, there's a place in.
So central interior that we go to and
it's very steep, not perfect horse
country, but you can make use of them.
And so you go up to a great glassing
place and you tie the horses up, back
in the trees and you set up the tripod
and the scope and you look around and
you know, you see a bear and you say,
oh, how are we going to get that bearer?
Whatever your thing, the other
way to do it is to pack into a
location and then stop using the
horses for all intents and purposes.
Let's put bells on them,
maybe put some hobbles on.
And you set them up into a bowl and they
just eat and you just keep an eye on them.
You try and keep them cause they'll
wander, but then you go hunt.
So for instance, Dee's
lake that's what we did.
So we would, we would turn the
horses out in a good area and we'd
put them in a bowl or in some area
where they had lots of food and you'd
say, they'll probably stay here.
They will.
And then you just go climb the mountain
and you got up to the top of the
mountain and you go look for caribou or
whatever it is you're you're looking for.
And, uh, it's fun.
You can run into problems.
Um, like anything else, again, anybody
who's gone out and done back country
hunting, you know, you think, well,
it's going to be beautiful blue sky
weather, everything will be fantastic.
And then the next thing you know,
yeah, you get snowed in and didn't
get to where you wanted to be.
You can't find firewood or the firewood
you find is really, you know, terrible.
You figure it out.
Sure.
You know, So when I say I'm not an expert
in horses, there's a lot of this stuff
that, you know, I figured out, right.
And if you have a group of guys with you
who are similar, you can pull it off.
Now there's other ways to do it.
You can, you can have Outfitters, take
you in and you just ride the Orson.
It's their horses, and
they'll take care of it.
Or you can go on a guided hunt
and there'll be a Wrangler, but
if you're doing it yourself, if
you figure out how to get the
horses, you need to wrangle them.
You have to take in some food.
Most of the time, you need to
find places where they can eat.
And you have to, you have to look
for places where horses can go.
Is it a lot of food you have to bring in?
You don't have to bring in a lot,
because what you'll do is you'll bring
in little pallets or you'll bring
in alfalfa cubes, things like that.
So you supplement it and some
guys don't, but, but I do.
I like it when you bring,
if you, if you bring horses.
From a trip like that.
You like people to say these
horses are in good shape.
Good care of them.
If you go in for a long, long trip, you
have to worry about things like shoes.
A horse may throw a shoe.
Okay.
Um, if you have somebody who knows a
little bit about shoeing, that's great.
Otherwise you might have
to say, figure it out.
We have to walk this horse out
without putting a big load on them.
Things like that.
Well,
how much load can a typical
horse take?
I'm going to say a horse can
take, let me figure it out.
I, they can take a lot, but what,
what I do, these are my guidelines.
I'm going to say about
110 hundred and 20 pounds.
Okay.
Now you can get a bigger horse that
can take more, but I'm not a big guy.
So if you have a bigger
horse, the horse is taller.
I'd have to tie that knot on top of the.
Or on top of the pack saddles.
Right?
So what you do is you have to pack boxes
and then you usually have a big bag or
a couple of small bags on top of that.
So you're tying the knot and it's
usually over your head, maybe you're
standing on a, on a log or something,
but maybe you don't have that.
So you have to do some by fields.
So it's the first thing that happens when
you look at this, as you go, I need to
get a great big Belgian or Clydesdale so
I can load a lot of stuff on them, right.
It's probably not the way to go.
Make sure you have a horse that fits you.
Okay.
I should say the reason that this started
my wife got my, my wife was not a hunter.
Didn't know about firearms.
She married me.
She said, this guy has got
guns and he's a killer.
That's a little weird.
I don't feel comfortable.
So she took the firearms
course in the core course.
And that was great.
I want her to take the core course because
like everybody else, this is awesome.
I'll get more Leh opportunities.
There you go.
She wanted to take the firearms
course, cause she thought I'm scared
of these things and I should find
out what's going on with them.
So she did that.
Lo and behold, you got a moose draw.
We went up shot the moose.
My wife is smaller than me.
Yep.
Hopefully I don't get in
trouble for saying this, but if
you're going to go hunt moose.
Don't take somebody who's about a buck 20.
He don't carry well, they
probably carry their weight.
They don't make enough of a, they don't
make enough of a dent in the task.
That's a lot of weight.
It's a lot, it's a lot of weight.
Um, the good part is I got the
classic Joe Rogan pitcher with, uh,
you know, me standing in the metal
with a moose leg over my shoulder.
Show that one when they, when
they put me in the ground.
Yeah.
But the bad part is it's a
lot of weight and I just said,
I'm getting too old for this.
I need to get horses.
Right.
So that of course is why you
say I need to get a big horse.
Right.
And I'll do that.
And you'll carry a ton of
weight and we'll have it licked.
So it doesn't work that way.
Get a horse, get a horse that fits you.
Okay.
Um, for me that means a horse
that I can tie not on top of once.
He's got the pack saddles on.
And for a saddle horse, it means something
where the stirrups are close enough
to the ground that I just lift up my
foot and my foot fits in the stirrup.
And then when I'm sitting in the saddle,
the stirpes are the right length, right.
So, you know, big horses are great,
but yet you end up having to jump on
them from the side hill or a rock or
a mounting block and things like that.
Again, you have to figure it out.
I
figured it's kind of like a boat.
Boat's always too big when you're fueling
and too big when you're pouring it.
And second you have it on the
water.
It's too small.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
So anyway, yeah, that's what you
can do with horses and they'll get
you into lots of great territory.
It's good.
If you like animals, horses
have character, they all have
different characters and they
also have behavioral traits.
They're they're they're they
have, they have a hierarchy.
They like to be in sort of a
rhythm and a routine mayor's.
Tend to push around geldings.
Sometimes the geldings like it, because
the mayor's not too, too bitchy.
Sometimes they don't horses
like to be in their herd.
They don't like horses in other herds.
And if you're not aware of those
things, you can get into trouble.
Um, we were up hunting caribou
and a buddy got a caribou.
He got a ball.
Nice.
And we're all in the same sort of area.
And what happened was I'm trying
to think exactly how it happened.
I won't have all the details,
but we were up on the mountain
and I think we heard a shot.
And so we looked down to where the shot is
and we start looking at the guys through
the glass and it was funny because we
heard one shot and then we saw a cow
and we thought, okay, so that's good.
And then we heard another shot
and of course we're thinking, why
is he trying to shoot that cow?
This makes no sense.
Right?
Well, by the time we walked
out, He wasn't shooting the car.
He was shooting the boat.
We just didn't see the ball.
So, yeah.
Okay, great.
This is awesome.
Uh, YouTube process, the ball, we'll go
back, get the horses to drag them back.
So we went and grabbed the horses.
They like to stay in a herd and
they don't like to be separated,
but we didn't need all the horses.
And so I thought, well, you know what?
We'll load the packs on a few.
We're kind of in a hurry.
It's the end of the day, it's going to
get dark and we need to get back there.
So a load packs on a few, and
we'll take them up this Creek to
where the, where the, where my
buddies have killed this bull.
We'll just let the other
ones run free behind us.
They'll want to follow
us while they do okay.
But they also say I'm not working.
I don't have.
So we can get into fights.
Oh, fun.
Yeah.
It's it's if you have the right attitude,
it's fun because you know, horses fight
by kicking each other and the ones
with the packs that are being led.
Yeah.
Can you hand it back?
They can't really fight back and
the horses that want to give them a
beating, they'll go broad side to them
and start laying into them with yeah.
Oh yeah.
They'll break ribs.
Oh yeah.
Actually, uh, horses can kill
each other by kicking them.
No kidding.
No kidding.
Oh, they're a part of the same
pack and they were all apart.
They're all
buddies from, yeah.
I mean a story about that.
I, uh, I went on a ride with a
friend of mine and I said, Hey,
whatever happened that horse you had
last year, he got kicked by another
horse, broke his leg, had to put
them down where I keep my horses now.
I mean, in the, in the, in the
winter we take the back shoes off
the back shoes, you know, when they,
they, they come off periodically.
Take the back shoes off.
He doesn't need them.
And that keeps him if he kicks
somebody, he does less damage.
Interesting.
I never even thought of that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
When I, when I found the place where I
had to move where my horse horses were.
And so when I found the place where, where
I'm wearing, I'll keep the gelding walked
up to it's a, it's a hobby farm in Langley
and went in there and looked at it.
And the lady had some horses.
I immediately walk up, I look at the
horses, they walk over to see me and none
of them have bite marks or scars on them.
And so I immediately say these are
nice horses like people, and they
don't fight each other too much.
What my getting in with them.
It, it took about two months before
we put them together, but we let
them be friends over the fence.
So they're just separated by a fence.
So they can't lay into each other,
but immediately upon getting
in there, you could see he made
friends with the other old gelding.
The old mayor was tolerant
would tolerate them.
The younger mayor wanted to just
impose discipline upon them.
Really?
Yeah.
Yeah.
They don't do it.
The why I never went through
my head that horses could be
assholes.
Like, yeah.
Yeah.
They, they do that.
Um, when you're out riding horses,
if you're, if you're in a string
of horses going through the woods,
it's usually better to be in a line.
And it's usually better to be in align
that they like, ah, if you're not in that
they will Jostle to get into position.
And there can be competition
where the horse in front says, no,
you're not getting ahead of me.
So that horse will kick.
So you just have
to figure it out just to pay
attention and figure it out.
Yeah.
And so you say, you know, have
you ever been kicked by a horse?
Absolutely.
How usually?
Right.
A horse and another horse kicks the horse.
You're riding misses, the horse
hits you, that kind of stuff.
So there's probably horse people listening
to this go, Rob, you're an idiot.
You don't know how to do this again.
I figured it out.
Horse kicks you a horse steps on you.
A few times.
You figure it out.
You go pay attention.
Don't wear flip flops.
And if you are wearing,
flip-flops really pay attention.
Lisa who listens to this
and works for Silvercore.
And, uh, if you, if you call in.
Looking for a membership,
looking for a chorus.
You'll most likely be talking
to Lisa absolutely loves horses.
And I know when this is over, she's
going to have some, uh, some advice
and some, some thoughts on it, but
sure.
And she will believe me.
There are lots of people who look
how I look at how I operate with
courses and I'm sure they, they
shake their, they shake their heads.
Um, again, I'll say my
job has remained the same.
I got to stay on top of the horse.
That's all I have to do.
It's actually more than that.
You've got to take care of the horse,
make sure that the horse is okay, but
they got to come first before
you really want it to be
successful.
They do.
They do.
And I'm lucky.
I like animals.
And with horses, I didn't
know what could go wrong.
I didn't know what would hurt them.
Get advice with horses
where one guy will say.
Yeah, don't worry about that.
That's a long way from his heart.
He'll be fine.
And then you'll find people who probably
overcompensate too far the other
direction, but then you'll run into a
guy who's a real horseman and you'll pick
up some smart ideas from him that really
turns into, uh, a real life situation.
I was out, we're doing a ride and I
was there early and a fellow turned
up and we went and we went for a ride
and he said, let's go, let's go here.
Let's go there.
And I said, I don't know.
You know, I know this trail and actually
that's something else you think about.
It's not good to just take a
horse and go into the woods and
think that you'll figure it out.
When you're on your own two feet,
you can do that with a horse.
It's a little tougher.
It's always good to know that there's
a trail to where you want to go.
And it's good.
If somebody holds you by the
hand and takes you to the trail.
That's good advice.
And it doesn't matter how much
of a big stud you think you are.
Cause, I mean, I I'm
really of the opinion.
Check me out of a helicopter
in the middle of anywhere.
I don't care where it is.
I'll survive.
I'll be fine.
Sure.
Right.
Um, I'll go on trips and I'll
say, okay, if we're way back there
and we break our leg, like how
are we going to figure this out?
And if the, if the answer is
well, I mean, we'll split it
up and we'll just crawl out.
Cause we know where the sun sets.
So we know where home is.
Right.
I go, okay, I'll do that.
You can't really do that with horses.
You gotta be, you gotta,
you gotta be prepared.
So you gotta find that
you gotta find the trail.
Anyway, this guy says,
let's go for this ride.
I want to go here.
I want to go there.
I say, I think we should
go somewhere else.
You know?
Um, I'm not re I kind of know that area,
but I don't have the trail dialed in.
Against my better judgment.
We went that way.
Got lost.
We're riding along in this first
thing, the guy said to me, as he
looked at my dear and he said,
you don't have enough gear.
You do have more gear.
How can you go riding around in
the woods without all, you know,
you need this, you need that.
You need the other thing.
And then, okay, well, whatever
we'll, you know, we'll figure it out.
I'm riding behind him and
we're way, way back there.
And all of a sudden, everything
goes into slow motion.
I see the horse start
falling over and he's on it.
And I'm thinking to myself, wow,
this is going to be interesting.
I'm about to see a guy get killed.
As he rolls down the hill on a horse.
This is going to be a great
story by the time it's all over.
Sure.
Right.
Yeah.
But you know, it's slow motion, right?
It's like when you're in a car accident
and everything slows down, this horse hits
the deck, the guy bails out and he's okay.
But we've got this horse
lying on the ground.
Won't get.
Oh, no, I'm going okay.
What do we do?
Try and get them up, try and get them up.
I remember seeing an old story where
some Cowboys were, uh, were trying to
break a horse and to take his attention
away, the guy bit, the horses year.
So I'm like pulling out all this stuff.
So what can we do to get this horse up?
Right.
Really hard to do.
We had three horses.
We had one horse that we were trailing and
he was a big, his big pack horse draft.
So we hooked him up and we eventually
got this horse to its feet, right.
In a way we go the guy who was riding
the horse, that it's really important.
We get this horse up.
If we don't, if they stay down too long,
they just give up and they want to die.
I love it.
Yeah.
Another thing that's important is
a horse uses his head to get up
because there's a lot of weight in the
head and it's on the end of a neck.
That's another thing to be careful
about by the way, if a horse swings
his head around and inadvertently.
You're going to smart.
Yeah.
You're going to get a concussion.
Yeah, absolutely.
So it's uh, anyway, we got this
horse up and I thought, okay, great.
This is good.
This is a learning experience for me.
You know, what happened, horse put his
foot wrong, fell down, sprained ankle,
or break a leg off and seemed okay.
He was tired, got him back.
And this was a guy who had said to me, you
know, I I'd put, I'd put some, uh, I'd put
some hobbles on a horse and it, you know,
kinda caught up his ankles a little bit.
And, uh, the guy said to me, yeah,
it's a long way from his heart.
He'll be fine.
Hmm.
Well, later on, the guy was out riding
that horse again and the horse keeled
over and, uh, almost almost died.
It was a big deal and brought the horse
back and needed a bunch of attention.
And that's when I ran
into a real horseman.
And he explained that what had
happened is that horse had been
overworked, uh, and had been.
Yeah, just tired hope played out.
Yeah.
Because you can, you
can run them to death.
You can run them to death.
Right.
And this wasn't so much running to death,
but he wasn't ready for the mountains.
And it was tough.
And horses, I guess, are, I mean, anybody
who knows dogs and, uh, is aware of,
for example, border collies, a lot of
drive used to have a border Collie.
Yeah, exactly.
And you can, you can work
a border Collie to death.
They w they will, they will
work themselves to death.
So it's your job to make sure that you
don't do that same thing with horses.
Make sure you don't get horses into a
problem where you, where you, where, where
they're gonna gonna maybe hurt themselves.
So the wise horseman said
to me, yeah, you know what?
You gotta, you gotta watch out,
you gotta take care of the horses.
You got to make sure they have
water, got to make sure they
have feed things like that.
And he was throwing
blankets on his horses.
I'd seen lots of horses in the interior.
I've seen him out in the snow.
I've seen him out doing
all kinds of things.
And again, with horses, it's similar dogs.
You first get it.
You project, some of your identity
onto them say, this dog is really
great because I am braid and the dog
is really tough because I'm tough.
And the dog shooting do her
discomfort because, because I can.
Yeah.
And you see that, you know, once you say
it, you understand how crazy that is.
And what, what my friend said to me was he
said, these horses come up from the coast.
They're not used to the interior.
I throw blankets on them at night
because you know what, they're going
to work hard for me in the daytime.
And I want them to use
that energy in the daytime.
I don't want them using the energy
overnight to keep themselves warm.
And it was so counter to it's
a long way from his heart.
And that's, that's something
you should keep in mind.
If you want to take horses into
the woods, it's kind of like
taking little kids into the woods.
They'll love it.
They'll have a fun time, but
you're going to have to remember.
They haven't been fed for a while.
Time to stop, stick some food in them.
Otherwise we're going to have
a meltdown and we're going to
have an unhappy group of kids.
Right?
So it's time.
So it's similar with horses, except you're
dealing with a, with an animal that's a
thousand to 1500 pounds and has long legs
and can break and stuff will go wrong.
You'll want to find a way to
go down a hill and it will be a
little steep, but you'll say, you
know, we're, cliffed out up here.
We need to get down to that Creek bottom.
That's where we have to go.
And you don't have to be doing this
too long before you hear people
share their story of when they
watched a pack horse roll down a hill
until it fetched up against a tree.
That'd be scary.
It's a little scary sometimes
afterwards, you know, it's
like that Steve Rinella thing.
It's terrible while you're doing it.
It's so much fun later.
Right?
Type two fun.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Other things will happen.
You know what.
We're on a trip one time and, uh, we have
to get a, again, it's one of those things
you got to get down from up high, down
low, and we're up north, we're in kind
of Muskogee area and it's not great horse
country, but we're going to make it work.
And, uh, a friend goes down.
He says, yeah, I think we
can come down through here.
And another friend follows
down and goes a little bit off.
And all of a sudden America's riding
her back leg, goes into a hole and
she's got three legs that are up at
one leg that is buried to her hip.
And I'm up on the hill and I'm
thinking, oh my God, we're like
two or three days into this.
And we're at the next stage where we
level up, because we're going to have
to shoot this horse now, thankfully.
Great guys.
I hang around with two of them
were immediately down, pulling
rocks out, digging the horse out.
We got the horse out and it was okay.
It all worked out, but
you gotta be prepared.
That kind of stuff.
That is iteration.
Yeah.
Yeah, it could happen.
So if we're going on with an
outfit or like Steamboat mountain
Outfitters or something like that,
they're going to have somebody who's
going to take care of that stuff.
You're not going to run into that jackpot
and you'll get exposed to two horses.
If you're going through, you
know, the muscular Chica with
Wayne saw Chuck, same thing.
There's going to be somebody
who knows more about it.
If you're going in with a guide
outfitter, there's going to be a Wrangler
there who takes care of that work.
If you're doing it yourself,
you have to do it all yourself.
Which means you got to
get up in the morning.
Somebody else has me.
Coffee, get breakfast.
You got to get up in the morning.
You got to go find the horses.
You've probably got
them out in the meadow.
They're hobbled.
Perhaps they've got some bells.
Yeah.
But they can wander a lot in
the night as they're grazing.
Like how far away
would you be
looking a mile?
Yeah.
Yeah.
It could be a mile.
Now think about that GPS.
Um, uh, I don't okay.
I don't know if guys can GPS
from the way they do dogs.
Normally what's going to
happen when we're out.
We're going to say this is where
we're going to camp, but the
reason we're going to camp here
is there's water and there's feet.
There's places to put the horses.
Um, but you think.
What are we going to do when
we get up in the morning?
Now, if we've walked in, we've
probably got an area that
we know we're going to hunt.
We're going to get up before dark.
We might go out there and find that place.
We might go out with headlamps
with the red lamp, right.
And climb the mountain and get up
there so that when the sun comes
up, we're already positioned.
Well, if you're going to have a bunch
of horses, that means you have to get
up in the dark and take care of them.
Or somebody stays behind a camp and takes
care of them, or you don't get up early in
the morning and get to your spot in time.
Right.
So that's something that.
At the end of the day, if you've been
using the horses through the day, you're
gonna say, okay, so we get to camp.
If camp's not set up, we need to set
up camp, whatever we're going to do.
If we're going to put flies up
tents up, whatever we've got
to do that, maybe gather some
firewood, get things organized.
We need to do that.
Somebody else has to take care of
the horses, get them all on saddle,
get the tackle, organized, get the
horses, fed, get them hobbled, get
them, get some bells on them and turn
them out where they're going to be.
Okay if you're camping in air and you've
got horses that are ramble around, maybe
a mile away with bells dinging all night
long, that might not bother some animals.
I mean, you'll see pictures of
moose running right through orchard.
Okay.
But it might.
Yeah.
And there might be guys in your crew
who go, we haven't seen any games.
I wonder if these horses are, are
the reason these walking tambourine.
Exactly.
So you gotta keep that in mind.
Um, the bells, the bells are important,
and the reason they're important
is because if you've chased horses
for awhile, you start sleeping with
horses and you hear the bells at
night, you go, ah, I'm so relaxed.
I can hear the bells as
opposed to waking up and going.
And I hear nothing.
There's no bells, what's wrong.
Right?
Um, other things go wrong middle of the
night, you know, maybe you've maybe you've
thrown the horses in some kind of a rough
corral because you don't have a lot of
good feed and you don't have a good place
to highlight them or you can't haul them.
And then the horses breakout in the
middle of the night and that's when
you go Travis, I am never going to
forget that side of you running around.
In your gig, trying to
catch horses in the dark.
No, it happens, right?
It happens.
I mean, imagine you throw up a fly one
night and you think, yeah, it's nice.
We don't need a really good flight.
And then around two in the morning,
thunder storm comes through and it's
getting you wet and you go, oh my
God, we shouldn't have cut corners.
Now we got to fix it.
Those kinds of things, those
kinds of things happen.
So, you know, that's,
that's horse wrangling.
It happens.
You have to, what about
predatory animals?
Like cougars?
Is that much of a concern bears?
I understand statistically.
Nobody has ever been attacked by a bear.
Well, on horseback, apparently there's
a statistic out there that says, if
you're on horseback, you are safe.
Statistically
speaking.
Okay.
You're first off in some respects,
you're asking the wrong guy.
I don't worry about very much.
Yeah.
I don't care.
Um, people say, what
do you do about bears?
I go, well, I mean, sometimes
I throw them in the freezer.
Sometimes I look at them.
Um, am I worried about them attacking me?
Not really.
I mean, you know, if a bear
jumps me, he's going to jump me.
Yeah.
I've got a 3 0 8.
You know, people go, well, what's
better bear spray or a rifle.
I go, I'm not fooling anybody.
I mean, if a bear is running at
me, you think I'm going to John
Wayne him and shoot him from
the hip and knock them down.
Probably not.
I say you have to have a firearm
because if the bear jumps on your buddy,
you can then do something about it.
But I just generally don't
worry about them that much.
Um, I know too.
Absolutely.
Stories one is a, guy's got a moose.
This wood would have been
around horse flyer likely.
Okay.
They got a moose late in the
day, uh, started processing.
It had to come back.
The next day, brought the horses
in overnight grisly had come in and
decided it was going to claim them.
So that was a bit of a,
that was a bit of gong show.
And, uh, that bear wanted to interact
with the people on the horses.
Oh, really?
Yup.
Okay.
Um, another time, I don't know
where it was, if it was like,
you know, it was Northeast BC.
Um, so friends were riding in and, uh,
they got charged by a grizzly on horses.
It ended up great.
And like a lot of those grizzly stories,
you know, the guys were reflecting
and said, yeah, you know what I mean?
I'm on the horse.
I'm leading some pack horses.
I've got a bear gun, you know, shotgun
ready to go when it happens, when
it goes down, None of it is turning
out the way it does in your dreams.
It doesn't go like that.
Right.
It's like that Steve Rinella
story where he says, I always
wanted to get clawed by a grizzly.
So I'd have the claw across
the scar, across my chest.
But yeah, but then when he has the
actual run in with a grizzly, he
goes, yeah, I no longer, I no longer
have that dream because reality is
not the way you imagine it will be.
And it never is.
No.
Now, when it comes to cougars, there is a
story that horses buck as an evolutionary
response to predation by cats.
So the cat jumps on the horses
back and the horse box it off.
I don't know if that's true, but
I know that my rancher friend has
a horse that has some unbelievably
impressive scars across his rear
end because when he was a full.
Crew to moved in and, and he had, he
had several falls and the Cooter moved
in and knocked off a bunch of them.
And this one survived.
The mayor didn't survive.
She was so traumatized, um, that
she couldn't, she couldn't recover.
Her breathing was all screwed up.
Something happened or the cat never
touched her, but they ended up having
to put that, put that merit out.
But the falls, uh, I mean, come out with
me this summer, you'll probably see it.
And it's got some great looking scars
across its rear end because Kruger's
will, cougars will knock off for sure.
They'll knock off foals.
I think if it was bad-ass enough
Cougar and a knockoff, a knockoff,
a, uh, a, uh, a full grown horse.
Do you have to worry about
them when you've got them,
you know, tied up somewhere.
I think you do the same way.
You always have to worry about it.
You know, when you're camping, do
you have to worry about a Barrack.
It ain't going to change anything.
It's not going to change anything, but
I mean, you know, you say, well, you
know, we'll try and keep a clean camp.
We'll try and have some bear spray around.
We'll try and know where I put the rifle.
You know, we'll be prepared for it.
Right.
We'll know what to do.
Similar with horses.
You can just got to keep an eye on them.
Now, if you turn them loose
out in a field, you're not
really keeping an eye on them.
When I say that you can haul
them up, put some bells on them
and turn them loose in a bowl.
Again, picture yourself
up in the mountains.
You're going to let them go in a
bowl that you're not going to be
hunting caribou, and you're going
to be hunting somewhere else.
Meaning you're going to be far
away from where those horses are.
So it's kind of like when you get back
to camp, you'll say somebody better go
up and make sure the horses are okay.
You've been away all day.
Maybe a grizzly came in and
killed four or five of them.
I don't know.
I haven't heard of that happening.
I don't worry about it too much.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I just didn't know if like a
hobbled horses just looks like kind
of meals on wheels to, to a cat.
Uh, I don't know the interaction
between bears, but I'm learning more
now.
Yeah, it could, it, you know,
it could be, I will say this.
I went to the Nemiah valley.
Uh that's by Choco lake in the
Chilcotin and if nobody's been there,
you should go, uh, it might be tough
right now with COVID that's that's
in Soko, teen nation declared title.
And so they might have a shutdown, right.
But if, if, if things change,
you get a chance to go there.
You should go so-called team
have a long history with horses.
And when I went into that campsite right
off the bat, somebody comes up to us.
Hey, have you seen the grizzly
come down, Grizzlies trying to
get some of the falls in that.
Really what happens?
You should see the mayors
run that grizzly off.
Really?
Yeah.
Now, you know, we have a lot of wild
horses in BC, feral horses, wild
horses, whatever you want to call them.
They live out there and they survive.
So, you know, do moose and deer
have to worry about predators.
Yes, they do.
Do they know how to deal with them?
They they've got some tricks.
I mean, I remember hunting to caribou one
time and we never got him and we chased
him all day long and he schooled us.
And the lesson that I took away
from that is he looked at us
and said, you guys are prepping.
I'm prey, right?
Not my first rodeo.
Right.
I didn't get big and
attractive this way by losing.
Right.
So, so, and I think horses probably
have that built into them too.
They can, they can do some stuff.
And as I said, you gotta be careful
with horses among each other.
They can hurt each other
quite a bit that never crossed
my mind before that it seems like
you get a pack of dogs together.
Sure.
They might fight that might play
fight, but for the most part, they
figure it out and they get along.
Pack of horses and wonder why that is.
You don't have the sense or
they got so much sense of
the, it depends.
Horses are individual too.
So I gotta be, I gotta be clear.
They don't all do that.
You don't always have nasty
horses, but sometimes you do, and
it can be any number of things.
I ran into a horse one time that
it had a bit of a stroke, so it
didn't have good sight on one eye.
And its tongue was a little bit
paralyzed and its, its hearing.
Wasn't that good you
approach from that bad side?
Oh, you're in trouble.
There was a lot of fear in that horse and
fear can turn into some bad reactions.
Right.
And I've described my gelding
already when he gets scared.
I can say to him, Hey, calm down.
And he's got the trust and
confidence that he will do that.
Right.
I've taken him through some terrain
that is, is, uh, difficult and scary.
Yeah.
You give them a little time
to calm down and he'll do it.
Will you walk them through that?
Oh, a lot of times.
Sure.
Yeah.
A lot of times, a lot of times, one thing
you got to remember with horses, a lot
of times you're getting off the horse and
you'll do that also, because if you're
on the horse for a long time, it's good.
Sometimes to get off and walk
and get some blood going through
your legs, I should imagine.
Yeah.
But horses get scared of things and
sometimes it's, it's not something
they should get scared of, but they do.
And if you try and stay on them,
it might end up not being good.
Right.
I remember one time, my guy flash
is a little bit funny about water.
I say a little bit, like when you're
leaving, he doesn't want to cross
the water when you're coming back.
No problem.
No problem.
Right?
Day's over.
You're going to go eat, but, uh, we're
looking a little Creek one time and I want
to get them across and he didn't want to.
And he kept getting closer and closer to
a tree and I kept fighting him through
that and trying to get him across.
And it ended up that he
ended up jumping across.
We were close to the tree,
not quite enough for him.
So when you have me between a horse and
a tree, you know, who ends up of course,
saying to everybody, oh, I'm good.
No problem just covered in mud down here.
Yeah.
So, you know, that's a time when you
might want to say, you know what, why
don't we just lead this guy across?
And that, you know, people
might be picturing what you're
going to Wade through a Creek.
It's not always out.
Sometimes you're up in the
mountain and there's a Creek.
That's only, you know,
two or three feet across.
Um, you can jump across it, but the
horse doesn't want to go across it.
And the entry to it is
a little bit snotty.
Sometimes it's better.
Just get off, grab the lead,
say, come on, you can come
with me and he can pull it off.
So if you have a group of
horses, are you tying them like tail
the tail, the nose sort of thing.
Are you just kind of trusting
that the other ones will follow?
If it was
like one person?
It's a good, it's a good question.
Sometimes.
Yes.
Sometimes.
No.
Generally, you're going
to be on a saddle horse.
Okay.
And you're going to have
a lead to a pack horse.
Yeah.
And then if you have other pack horses,
you'll tie the pack horses together.
Now some people will tie the lead
on the second pack horse to the
tail of the first pack horse.
Some people will have what's called
breakaway tying twine, which is basically
it's it's it's, uh, baling twine.
It's when we get her off a hay bale.
So it's more of a psychological
leap
than it we'll know what happens.
It's not a psychological leave.
What happens is you'll tie that
to the saddle, the pack saddle,
or to the harness, wherever
you tie it, wherever you want.
And then you tie the lead on
the second pack horse to that.
So if something happens, they get
spooked or maybe one of them goes
on the wrong side of a tree, or
they get caught between two trees.
When there's a bit of.
That baling twine breaks.
Don't pull off the packs.
You don't have two horses trying
to run in different directions.
So that works.
You can also just say
these horses are okay.
We're going to lead a couple and
we'll let the other ones follow
on their own and figure it out.
If you've got good horses that
understand that they'll do it.
Um, I borrowed a horse one time,
JJ, his name was great horse,
really nice, really nice attitude
dumber than a sack of hammers.
We had him following behind us
and we're going through bro.
Blow down.
It's it's BC there's beetle kill
there's blowdown all over the place
stuff that you can walk up to and
throw a leg over a horse has a hard
time, sometimes getting four legs over.
Right?
So you're picking your way through it.
You don't want to break out the chain.
And you don't want to always be
dealing with this pack horse.
So we let them walk free.
Had to keep an eye on him.
Cause he'd start grazing.
Yeah.
We'd be a hundred yards down
the line and he'd be lost.
He'd be going, wait where'd you go?
How do we figure it out?
So he wasn't appropriate to lead
or he wasn't appropriate to follow.
Right.
But some of them are great.
Some of them will do it.
You run into other problems
with, with pack horses,
they've got pack boxes on them.
You go between two Jack Pines.
You ride between them.
The horse behind get stuck.
Right.
Can become a nightmare.
Now I was, I, I, I was, I was lucky.
I've just been, uh, uh,
I've acquired good horses.
I mean, the mayor that I had up until
last fall that would happen with her, the
lead would get yanked out of your hand.
You'd look over her shoulder and
she'd have a look in her eyes like.
You've got to pay attention.
I've got packs on my back.
I can't get through this stuff.
Right.
But again, if you like animals and you
have relationships with animals, you,
you start to pick up on that stuff
and, and you, and you figure it out.
So, you
know, I guess one big benefit,
uh, hunting with horses would be
the length of time he can be out.
You don't have to have extra fuel with
you to keep these things fueled up.
Um, w what are the other benefits
it's quieter, right.
Okay.
Also, if you ever try and take an ATV
down a horse trail, you'll find they
often go along steep Hills and a horse
needs a boat, you know, 10 inches in
order to walk down a trail, right.
Quad needs, you know, two
and a half, three feet.
Right.
And if you're on a 45 degree angle, yes.
Sidling, that's not fun.
It's not too fun.
Right?
Um, so that's, that's good.
It will get you into some areas, you
know, close to motorized vehicles.
Sure.
Horses can go up there.
Right.
You can go all over the south Choco
out and go through big Creek park,
all kinds of things, um, with horses.
Um, yeah, so you don't have to take fuel.
You can get into areas that
are close to motor vehicles.
You can maybe get back further.
You can go over terrain that,
that, uh, uh, quad can't get into.
Um, but also there is the
aspect of what do you like more?
Do you like hunting more
or do you like horses more?
For me?
It's a pick them.
I'm a little, uh, I've I've got more
time for doing things now, so I can
say, well, I'll go in there and yeah,
it takes some time and you've got to
organize things, but once you get.
It's okay.
It's like flying to Thailand.
If you're only going there for
a week, it's very expensive.
If you go in there for
a month, it's easier.
Cause once you're there and
you're set up the amount of time
that you're there, it's there.
Yeah.
So yeah.
So that's, that's, that's good.
Fun with horses doing that.
You do run into jackpots.
Things can go south.
You have to be prepared.
I guess if you're using somebody else's
horses, who am I getting them from?
Am I going to take good care of them?
Will they come back in good shape?
If something goes wrong and I have to
kill this horse, how am I going to explain
that to the guy I got the horse from?
Is he going to be okay with it?
You know?
So, you know, it's good to
have your own horses, then you
don't have to worry about it.
Right.
So yeah.
What else can I tell you about them?
It's there's all kinds
of, there's all kinds of.
Tricks.
You have to learn with tack.
You have to learn how to saddle a horse.
Oh, I guess we should go back to this,
the whole thing far from his heart.
Right?
Um, you put a saddle on a horse horse.
The saddle is supposed to fit the horse.
It's supposed to be kind of comfortable.
It's supposed to not do damage to them.
When I started out lunchtime comes or
we take a break, I'd rip off the saddle
and take a look at the horses back.
Does it look okay?
What am I looking for?
I don't have a clue.
I'm just trying to make sure
that nothing is going wrong.
Well, at one point in time, horse came
in and a lot of gear on the saddle,
everything that it needs, and a guy
said, can you take this saddle off?
I'm a little tired.
Took off the saddle.
Damn near killed me.
It was so heavy.
And I see that this saddle has
been rubbing the horse through
the blanket and through the pad.
And he's got a saddle sore that
is probably the size of two.
Your thumb put together.
Yeah, no hair, no skin, just
pissy, oozy, gooey stuff.
And you go, that's what I'm looking for.
That's what I don't want to find all
the times I've taken off the saddle
and thinking, God, am I being an idiot
looking at this horse now I know I'm
not because that's what a day takes.
And the horse is what's
called a dumb animal.
It doesn't mean it's stupid.
It means you can't talk.
You gotta be looking for behavior
because behavior is communication.
Somebody missed it with this horse.
And after that, you know, we're not
putting us out a lot of Memorial.
No kidding.
We're not using them.
He's out of action.
Big strong beast.
He's smart.
He's willing, he put up with all of
that, but we're not using them tomorrow.
Right?
So the next day, obviously lunch
game, I didn't feel bad about
pulling the saddle off my horses
and just checking them out to them.
They're fine.
You know, it's like checking
hoofs and things like that.
Right.
Are they, are they okay.
The other thing about behavior being
communication, I learned something
about, you know, you hear about
horses going lame, what will happen?
What will we do?
And what I found out was.
They'll do something.
They won't behave the
way they normally do.
And it takes you a while to figure
out that behavior is communication.
And in this particular case,
I had a friend on my mirror.
I said, come on, just put
the heels to her, um, get her
going, break her into a truck.
Cause I was trying to teach
them how to ride, ride horses.
And I said, you know, walking is fine.
Trots.
The hardest one it's it's so Jocelyn
and there are people who will
teach you how to do it properly.
Me I'll look at you and I'll say,
you're going to figure it out,
but I'll tell you what if it feels
like somebody's jackhammer in
your junk, you're doing it wrong.
Don't do that.
Do something else until it
feels like you can make it work.
You gotta use your legs.
You gotta use Tommy.
You gotta feel the rhythm hours.
Anyway, this guy couldn't get the,
couldn't get the mirror out of a walk.
Right.
And it took me a while to figure it out.
And then I went and looked and
go first off, she's thrown shit.
Second off she's got sore feet.
That's why she doesn't want
to do what she normally does.
Got her back to town.
Had somebody look at her.
She goes, nah, this horse
has got big Huff problems.
She's been in too much wet
ground or Hosur screwed up.
We're going to have to do a, uh,
program of getting them back in shape.
That takes about six.
It took us about six
months to get it done.
Okay.
So that's something to think about.
It's kind of like you going out with
your gear and your gear breaks and you
say, we can't just fix it right now.
This is going to take a while to fix
and you're in the middle of a hunting
trip and you go, what do we do?
So you have to be prepared for that.
So for a lot of people,
they're going to go, Nope.
Don't want horses.
Yeah.
That's uh, that's, it's going to
cramp my style too much and it's
certainly can, it certainly can.
So you gotta be, you gotta be aware of it.
Good way to say.
Going on trail rides.
See if you like horses, some
people are afraid of horses, right.
You know, um, I've tried to get
my wife to come out with me a lot.
She's worried about
being on top of a horse.
Okay.
She's worried that she'll get thrown.
She's worried.
She gets stepped on.
She's worried.
She'll get bit.
Those are the ones that ended up
getting thrown, stepped on her bed
because they're worried about it.
It's in their mind somehow it's a self
fulfilling prophecy I've found it could,
it could be unit, you know, Nicole
and you know me, she's a survivor.
We've been together
well over three decades.
And, uh, I now finally appreciate
how much she's put up with it.
She's good.
We've worked out a good, we've worked
out a good system and this will tell
you how, how, how good my horses.
She will walk and I will ride.
And my horse flash, we'll just tuck
his head in right over her shoulder.
Cause he goes.
And he just walks beside her.
Doesn't knock her over.
And, uh, you know, in the summertime
when we're out, just fooling around,
that's a great way to spend time.
We go and we climb mountains and we go
look around and we see all kinds of stuff.
Very cool.
Now, if you're going hunting and you
say, let's really buckle down, you're
probably not saying, oh yeah, you know,
we'll just walk with me on the horse and
my wife and front we'll have the dog say,
we may as well bring along some toddlers.
There are times when you'll
do that with hunting.
I mean, that's how you introduce kids to
haunting, but it's not a kind of serious
hunting that you do with your buddies
when you're going into the back country.
And you're, you know, you're, you're,
you're being really hardcore, right?
So you have to keep that perspective.
And you know, if you think that
horses are going to be the solution,
that's going to get you into the
sweet magic, you know, honey hole,
or you're going to get epic game.
That's not how it works.
Right.
But if you've got the right perspective
and you've got time, it works out well.
We were in the itches.
We flew in there.
Right.
So flying to edge lake and we walked
up the mountain and we went out and
caribou and, uh, got a great bowl.
And it was, it was, it was a funny day
because, uh, we, we dropped that bowl.
It was opening day drop.
And then we saw a helicopter
flying over top of us, circling
around, circling around.
We go, I wonder what they're up to.
Well, I mean, you know what,
they're up to their CEO's right?
So they saw us, they circled down,
they come down and everybody's
panicking going, oh my God.
Oh my God, are we guilty of something?
We've done something wrong.
What's going to happen here.
We're fine.
We're fine.
What's going to happen.
Guys, come out out of the helicopter,
look at your tags and everything.
And they walk over.
They go, ah, nice bull.
Pretty good.
Um, that part was funny.
Uh, if, if you haven't run into CEO's
out in the back country recently,
they've got like a S they've got
like an iPhone on steroids that
has a bunch of information on it.
So you'd give them your ID and they can
tell, and they might say, so it says, you
should have a mule deer tag here as well.
You better have it, so you can show
it to them, all those kinds of things.
So, so those guys, those
guys turned up then.
Two guys rode up on couple horses.
I think they had a pack horse as well.
Okay.
Young guy dressed up camel.
Grew your gear, all the high stuff.
Yep.
And his dad jeans, ski
jacket chain smoking.
Yep.
Gary, Gary and Devin.
I think they were they'd
come up and they'd go.
Nice.
Bull dairy says.
Know, can I bring my horses up,
get them used to, uh, to the smell.
This one's a new one.
And, uh, he's not used to it.
He said, sure, come on up.
And we did, and we had a great chat with
them and, uh, we actually told them,
we said, you know, we'd been up here a
few days scouting and you know, we've
got a bull, but we're going to tell
you down there, there's another herd.
We're pretty sure there's
a shooter in there.
So they go, okay, that's great.
And they leave and they go down and
later that day they're coming back.
Sure enough.
They've got the bull in.
It's funny because as a relieving, my
buddies and I, we look at each other and
we go, what do you think about old Gary?
They're old cowboy hats, ski
jacket, jeans, chain smoking.
You think he's a closer?
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
He is so sure enough.
They come back with the bowling and they
were all happy and they paid us back
later, we went down to the, to the cabin
and we'd been, we'd been eating out of.
You've been eating freeze,
dried food the whole time.
We said to those guys, Hey, any
chance you might have like some
onions and maybe some spice, you know?
Cause we got a new caribou and we want
to eat some, they set us up so good.
They said, yeah, we're on our way out.
We'll give you the homemade bread from
mom and we'll give you all this stuff.
And uh, those are also some Cuban
cigars and a bottle of whiskey.
And we're thinking like,
why are you doing this?
And, well, it was because we turned
them onto the ball, which ranges
just done, because go, why not?
We're good.
And yeah, but anyway, the reason I tell
you that story is because Gary raised
those horses himself and he came in with
his son Devin and he had not been up
there hunting caribou since he had been
up there years before with his father.
So from that point of view, um, it
was kind of cool because they had a
three-day ride in and then they had
time when they were up hunting there
and then they had a three-day ride
out and it was a great father and son.
That's fairly cool.
Yeah.
And the coolest part of course,
is that when they left the cabin,
they laughed and we waved goodbye.
And then about a half hour
later, they came back and they
said wrong trail, they got lost.
So he had to come back.
It's pretty funny.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Beautiful horses to carry
raised the horses themselves.
So they're all matched nice
bays and, uh, it was good.
So it's a perspective thing.
They're not the magic bullet as,
as anybody who's hunted for a long
time, there is no magic bullet.
No, you got to put in the
work, you do it different ways.
Some guys hunt from boats,
some guys fly in with playlists
and some guys do it in truck.
Some guys walk in, some guys
do all of that and uh, yeah.
That's how horses that's how
horses are that's horses.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well,
I'm sure we'll have some questions
coming up in, in the comments or quite
often we'll get emails coming through.
Uh, Thank you so much for being
on the Silvercore Podcast and
sharing these stories really
appreciate it.
Thanks for having me.
It was, uh, it was not as scary as I
thought it was gonna be lots of fun.
Thanks for.