Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Exploring how humans connect and get stuff done together, with Dan Hammond and Pia Lee from Squadify.
We need groups of humans to help navigate the world of opportunities and challenges, but we don't always work together effectively. This podcast tackles questions such as "What makes a rockstar team?" "How can we work from anywhere?" "What part does connection play in today's world?"
You'll also hear the thoughts and views of those who are running and leading teams across the world.
[00:00:00] Dan: If like me, you've waited in a chain restaurant fascinated by the team dynamics on the other side of the counter, then this episode is for you. We're talking to Mel Nuttall, franchise owner at a major chain of restaurants in New Zealand. Her background in a leadership development firm gives her a unique take on the people side of the business, and it's hardening to hear how these jobs that are often seen as simple and entry level can contribute greatly to the individuals and to the families and communities they live in. Join us as we enter a world of human connection that we all know exists, but most of us know very little about.
[00:00:40] Dan: Hello and welcome back to We Not Be the podcast where we explore how humans connect to get stuff done together. I'm Dan Hammond.
[00:00:48] Pia: And I am Peter Lee. Hey, Dan Hammond. We have a very special guest
[00:00:53] Dan: We do, we do an old,
[00:00:55] Pia: from the New Zealand past?
[00:00:57] Dan: Very much, very much so. Um, yeah, we in our past, um, when you were CEO and I was in that business, um, I remember this. Bright young thing, um, coming to help us with our project management. 'cause those in professional services, project management is a key task.
[00:01:16] Dan: There's certainly moving parts, a lot of people involved or coordination to be done. And we really needed something to make a difference to that, didn't we at the time. And um, and that was, that was when we met Mel. And, um, brilliant that she's on the show today, um, because I think what our conversation is going to show is that as she's gone forward in life, that chapter helped her as it helped us.
[00:01:39] Dan: Um, and she's taken into this new world of, um, being a franchisee of a big. Big old, restaurant chain. So, um, this is just a fantastic and uplifting conversation. So let's go and hear from Mel now over.
[00:01:56]
[00:02:00] Pia: And a very warm welcome to a long last friend and colleague, Mel Nuttall.
[00:02:07] Mel: Thank you.
[00:02:08] Pia: full disclosure, Dan and I worked with Mel a number of years ago when we were all young and free in Australia in a professional service business. And, uh, and Mel. Is now a business owner of a franchise restaurant, and that's going to be the topic of what we're gonna be looking at today.
[00:02:27] Pia: Before that, the obligatory question from Mr. Hammond, I hope you're not sort of like you hadn't thought of something that Mel did back in those days, and you're gonna give her
[00:02:36] Dan: That's right.
[00:02:37] Pia: question.
[00:02:38] Dan: you do if a consultant was act like this? Yeah. Um, oh, here we go. Here's a good one for you, Mel. Um, my perfect day. What is your perfect day,
[00:02:48] Mel: Oh, that's a good question. My perfect day would be, um, not getting up too early, little bit of a balance, but getting up as the sun rises, you know, a bit of daylight going for a run,
[00:03:00] Mel: um, ideally on some trail, and then having coffee, uh, afterwards. And then probably, I don't mind doing a little bit of work. So just a little bit of work maybe like half day would be quite nice.
[00:03:12] Mel: And then, um, taking my two little boys somewhere and doing something with them. So whether that's the park or going for a bike ride or just watching them play. Um, and then probably getting takeaways and watching a movie
[00:03:25] Pia: Sounds good to me.
[00:03:27] Mel: Quite simple.
[00:03:28] Dan: excellent.
[00:03:29] Pia: simple and lovely.
[00:03:30] Dan: Love the way you have some work in there, Mel. That's really
[00:03:33] Mel: Oh yeah. Well, you know I'm still, still a bit of a exactly. Very good. Very well. We'll hear some more of that in a few minutes, but bring us up to date. Tell us about your, um, peers mentioned a bit of this along the way. Just give us a, a bio in the, in a box for Mel. Where, where'd you come from?
[00:03:49] Dan: How'd you get to this point? So you can probably tell by my accent, uh, born and raised in New Zealand. So lived there for 23 years. So went to school, went to uni, um, grew up in Christchurch. And then, um, first job was, uh, doing documents for an exporter. Um, which makes me actually cringe a little bit 'cause my document side of things isn't as good now.
[00:04:12] Mel: So I think, oh Jesus. Um, I'm not sure how I did that. And then, um, met my husband and we decided to go over to Sydney and then, uh, actually worked, uh, as a coordinator selling calculators for a year. Then decided to, to move on to great things and come across to you guys.
[00:04:31] Mel: So started off at LIW um, and then had, um, I think I was there for 12 or 13 years. Um, so did that and then it was time, um, we had two little boys, um, by then, and that's when COVID hit. And I think that was our instigator to move back home. So we always had a plan to come back. But, you know, we, we loved Sydney. so we decided to move back and at that time as well, my husband, um, decided, you know, he would always wanted to sort of work for himself and was just finding the stress of his job a bit much. Um, so we looked at business opportunities, um, and looked at quite a few and we decided, well, since we are moving back, why not?
[00:05:13] Mel: Try and do something completely different. Um, and so we looked into different, different things and then we settled on a restaurant, and then, um, a couple of years later bought one. Um, so it's franchised, so we have to follow certain guidelines, um, procedures, marketing, all of that. Um, but I guess when it comes to people and our own ways of doing things, that's totally up to us.
[00:05:36] Mel: Um, so we have around 115, um, people. uh, and we need to build or ideally to 125 for summer. so it's a, it's a big restaurant. it, it has high turnover, um, and it's also just the general size of it is, is quite large. So we are responsible, basically for all of those people. So, we employ a high number of youth, so lots of high school and lots of uni.
[00:06:03] Mel: So the, the turnover's naturally higher because their tenure is much shorter. so that has challenges as well. And sometimes the environment just isn't right for them. It's busy. Um, it's busy and it's stressful. So we have a big challenge where, um, for a similar rate, they can work in a supermarket and it's.
[00:06:23] Mel: And it's less stressful. Um, I mean, I guess stress is different to different people. but that's a, that's a challenge that we have on a day-to-day basis is going well, how do we, how do we encourage people to choose us over, um, someone else down the road that is potentially a easier job.
[00:06:40] Pia: So. If I'm a newbie and I'm, and I'm applying for a job and I get the job, what's the journey that I go on and what am I a part of?
[00:06:49] Mel: Good question. Um, I think, um, it comes up a little bit to you in what. And what you wanna get out of it. So we, we have a reasonably robust onboarding system. We have to do two interviews. So our big focus is, um, on people. Um, so we have focused very heavily over the last, I guess, nine months on employing the right people for what we need.
[00:07:15] Mel: And so we do two interviews. Um, and that's because the first one is, is generally quite easy to get through. Like if you can work great, you take the box. But the next one is more really about the engagement, um, and whether or not you're gonna provide customer service.
[00:07:30] Mel: So we really encourage them to go Look, there's, there's sort of. There's three types of careers or three types of jobs really within it. There's a, I turn up, I get paid, I leave. The second one is, I'm here. Um, I'm working, I'm gonna get paid, but I'm going to use it to grow my skills. And then you have the third bucket, and that's people that they're not sure but on the fence. But um, potentially they want a career and they wanna move forward.
[00:07:58] Mel: But we, we've just got, a high school student. Um, he started with us a year. And he has been put into management. So he will be a manager, a qualified manager, um, in a couple of months. He, he may not be there next year. He may go, I'm, I'm finishing high school. I'm going to uni. I'm gonna go do this. And that does not worry me. It's like, okay, you, you are getting the skills you need. And we are giving him that choice. And it's, it's better to give him that choice than to not invest.
[00:08:29] Dan: So, so uh, Mel, just a quick one on that. How, how young could a manager be in the restaurant? That's, it's sounds like a potentially quite a quick advancement.
[00:08:38] Mel: could be Yep. So I would say some are 16, but I would say 17. 17 is probably the, the more. Um, but, but, and that's, that's a lot on them. I mean, he, he generally works nights, nights around busiest time. Uh, and so he, he, we could have up to 30 people on the floor that he is managing and responsible for.
[00:09:01] Mel: So that is quite a lot. And, uh, probably similar ages or older. So, um, that, that, I mean, that in itself takes a bit of coaching and support. Um, and of course he wouldn't be the only manager on a shift like that. There'd be another one. Um, but it is a lot of responsibility, but it's also a huge skill for them to learn.
[00:09:22] Mel: Um, I mean, today I spend an hour with him about how you can make a shift profitable. which is a big conversation that you are having with a 17-year-old that is just, is just, um, you know, wanting to pay the bills or save up for whatever he is doing. So it's quite, it's, it's actually quite like, I enjoy speaking to them about that. Um, yeah, and they, they like to, they like to know more about it as well.
[00:09:48] Pia: And that's what I was gonna ask. Do you find that because you are sort of expecting more and, and actually you expect you're, you're giving more, but, but the expectation is, is that they don't necessarily owe you a lot other than the way that they. participate. Do you get surprised? Do you find people rise to the occasion?
[00:10:07] Mel: Yes, I do. Um, I think, I think that, that you do have to keep that in mind because you do get. A lot of the others that don't. Um, so I think you need to hold onto the ones that do, um, and, and realize that you are moving things forward. Um, we, when we took over, we didn't really have a department managers, um, so you need three department managers and we didn't really have them.
[00:10:31] Mel: Um, so we took a risk on all three, and, and said, you know, would you like to be a department manager? And. They have all stepped into that role really well. Um, and, and one of them I was really on the fence. but they're brilliant. Like they, they send me messages out of ours. Not that I expect that, but it, it's more for the dedication of that role.
[00:10:55] Mel: Um, it, it, I was very surprised by it. But then in saying that, we've done some, just some small gestures towards them as well, and they're blown away by it.
[00:11:06] Dan: Yeah. Amazing. Well, my mind, I've got this sort of. Vision of you. You've got at one end highly sort of standardized product, clean restaurant, everything, right? but the, the people, the star people and the staff is a, is the massive humanity, isn't it? I mean, it's, it's coming from all parts of the community. Different motivations for work, different beliefs about work, um, all kinds of different educational levels. It sort of seems like how do you do the bit in the middle where you return one into the other?
[00:11:40] Dan: So what, what are the key, what's the secret here to, to take this huge number of people with these coming from different angles and, and turn it into this sort of standardized clean product that, that we as the public want?
[00:11:53] Mel: Yeah, that is a, that is a, yeah, that is a big, big question. yeah, it, it is interesting like in, in terms of the people, um. We, we try and support them really heavily in their first month. Um, it's a bit daunting when they come in. Um, so we find if you set them up properly in their first month, you get more out of them.
[00:12:17] Mel: Um, we, we really try and keep it simple. So there, there's a million different targets. Um, there's different numbers. At you all the time. Even in the restaurant, every screen has got targets. It's, you know, you're, you're in different colors depending on where you're at. Um, I, I can see any of those metrics right now.
[00:12:37] Mel: Um, I can log into the system. so it's very overwhelming. Um, so we have, um, probably do basic, we have two restaurant goals that we, and I, we explain this in an orientation and I drill it into the managers two. One is you need to be customer. You need to have good customer service. So say hi. Say, please say thank you, smile. that's it. That's, that's, I expect that on every single shift. And the second one is, is training,
[00:13:07] Mel: So we expect that there's training happening on every single shift. If we get those two things right, everything else flows. So the, all the targets get hit generally. Um. People enjoy being there. So therefore they turn up the next day, the sick calls get reduced, the managers are happy, they then make good decisions 'cause they're not stressed because they've got enough people on the floor. So it all flows from that.
[00:13:33] Mel: So that is the piece that we, we are really focused on. Um, there, there is the other side in terms of the senior management team where we have KPIs, um, and. We report on them every week that we need to hit them in order to be profitable. §Um, and we have to, we have to hit those numbers, but we don't put that on the, the day to day staff. They, they, it is too much cognitive load for them. So we take that away and we say, if you just focus on these two things, everything else will be fine.
[00:14:07] Pia: so that means on a shift that that, that you've got people that are training other people. So you're passing on of that, that information. What, how, how would you describe the culture? Because it sounds like you're doing a lot of things to build a sort of a high performance culture.
[00:14:21] Mel: Um, it wasn't great when we, when we first got there. And that was due to lots of different reasons. Um, change of ownership always causes a lot of, unrest, lots of management changes. Lots of people had been there for a long time. Um, and then when we came in, we made a lot of changes, um, which, Just, it is just change. Like people just really struggled with the change. Um, and were incredibly resistant to it, so we also bought our restaurant manager from the previous restaurant and he has a certain tone that he, he brings across.
[00:14:56] Mel: So that the, the culture was definitely broken and we weren't welcomed, I guess. Um, and I think that's like with any team, when someone new comes in, and especially like a new owner or someone who's very dominant in their ways, it just causes the team to be incredibly, um, I guess uptight.
[00:15:16] Mel: Um, very on edge. So we didn't like the culture. We didn't feel comfortable being there, so that was a big sign really. It was like, oh gosh, this feels really, you could feel it, um, and you could see it. Um, so you could see it too, with the way the customers were as well. So, so we went on quite a journey, um, where we got quite tight on our controls and I guess our disciplinaries because there was things that were happening that we don't tolerate. so we set that tone very quickly and so people then soon learnt they were either with us or not with us.
[00:15:57] Mel: They would choose. Um, although some of them didn't get a choice, but then others did get a choice. and so that, that helped set the tone. And then the other thing is too is we, we had a massive high turnover and so nearly most of the crew in New, and they've gone through that new process. and that has been a game changer.
[00:16:18] Mel: That is the piece that has changed the culture. Um, there's still tweaks of it. Um, so it's taken us nine months, I would say. We, it, it's where we wanna be. There's still room for improvement, but it feels, it feels really nice. Um, and actually last week we had someone external come in and they even made a comment about the customer service and how polite the crew were.
[00:16:46] Mel: So that to me was the best feedback. I, I don't really, um, I, I, I wouldn't say don't care, but I, I struggle when I get given a target that I can gamify, um, I can manipulate any target you want me to, but that side of it you cannot manipulate.
[00:17:04] Mel: Um, And, and it's not always right and it changes slightly day to day, but overall, um, it's really good. And then, and another one was, um, when we first, we first took over, we sent out a thing saying, does anyone wanna be a manager? Radio silence. Like nothing. No one put their hand up. No one wanted to move forward.
[00:17:25] Mel: No one wanted career advancement. No, no one wanted to attend any training thing. No one turned up to meetings. Now we've got people saying, Hey, I really wanna become a manager. What do I do? And so it's, it's all those little things that are making a difference.
[00:17:41] Dan: This is one of the reasons we wanted to talk to you, Mel, because there's a role isn't there? Here you are, you are, you are doing a lot in, actually, as you said, sort of helping people progress through and going to get careers. But there's some really fundamental stuff here around that people may not have had from their home life, which is that they, that they have stability.
[00:18:00] Dan: You know, when you read LinkedIn, it's all a little bit highfalutin sometimes. But the reality of of life is that we, um, we are served by people and they are. They're going undergoing a sort of education. They're getting support in these, these businesses through you. So it's, it's fascinating. We really, uh, it's uplifting actually to see the role that these, these places can play in, in the right hands.
[00:18:23] Mel: A hundred percent. And I think too, um, we, we've got quite a few 15 year olds and, and, um, because there's a few things we've just gotta be mindful of, you know, they're still at school and it's really important. Um, we're a bit hesitant to have too many, uh, but I have to say that the last lot we had through, they're just amazing people and have so much ahead of them.
[00:18:47] Mel: And I think it's really valuable as their first jobs that they, you're creating that foundation for them and, and that there's only probably gonna be a couple of them that stay longer. and that's okay, but you can see how much they're learning from it.
[00:19:04] Mel: And I remember one, it was about three months ago. We had one and absolutely brilliant. And he got, a monthly award. We have monthly awards for different categories. And um, his mum came in and said, I can't believe he got that. Probably, probably doesn't talk at home or whatever. Um, but she said that his whole confidence. And his whole, outlook in life has changed.
[00:19:31] Mel: And I thought, wow, that's really cool. And she couldn't be more thankful for it. so that was, that was really nice to see. Um, and then again as well, there's some that, um. Life at home is not great. So I think it's really important. The other piece that we, um, are really mindful of that is the environment that they come into has to feel safe, so it's safe from an actual physical point of view, but safe from like a mental side of it that, you know, they can come, they can just forget about whatever's going on, get on with it, um, and feel okay around it. So that's something else that is quite important as well.
[00:20:10] Pia: I mean, 'cause really what you're creating is, um, a lot of opportunity, a lot of leadership opportunity for young people. What does the impact on the community? So how, how are you being seen by the community that you are serving?
[00:20:25] Mel: well, hopefully it's positive. Um. I try to avoid it because there's always something negative. Um, I, I'd like to think it's positive. I think that's another thing as well, is that if they are genuinely happy, I mean, they're not always gonna love it, but if they can say it's a good place, then it actually reflects really well on us and what we are doing.
[00:20:45] Mel: Yeah, it, I have seen positive effects from it. Um, like in terms of families and just general feedback, that one's a lot harder for us to measure. I guess the other side of it is, um, our sales are going well, so I think that's probably something positive. and another thing is too, that that has. Gone quite well.
[00:21:05] Mel: So we um, we do a big charity event every year and we ask crew if they can volunteer and the numbers that we get that wanna volunteer is quite large. Um, and they get articles and things written about them. So I think that is, that is really cool to see that they actually wanna do that for free. Um, so that's really cool. That's something that we really like. We feel really proud of the team when that happens.
[00:21:31] Mel: Yeah, so it's definitely a harder one to measure. One thing that has gotten better, and I don't know if this is just the times or again, what we are doing, but we have, um, quite a zero tolerance on rude customers. So, if customers are quite aggressive, they swear, they're just difficult. We either trespass them or ask them to leave, and we ask the managers that they don't serve them. Um, so we, we don't have young school people turning up to work to be abused by a customer. it's just we, we don't tolerate it.
[00:22:08] Mel: So, um, we try and be around a lot. So we can deal with that. So in school holidays it seems to be quite full on and in summer. And so we, we make sure that we are around in those peak periods. Um, and if there is a difficult customer, we, we ask 'em to leave
[00:22:26] Dan: they get mailed.
[00:22:26] Mel: as Sharon has called me, they get the Fox terrier in me. Which comes, actually, there was a group, there was a group of students today being very difficult and uh, one of the managers looked at me and they're like, you're gonna go over there, aren't you? And I said, I'm, but I think there's, there's two parts I think we slowly take. I mean, you're always gonna get it, so it's not, not gonna go away, but your sort of word gets out that we Don't Let that happen. but also it's very clear to our, our staff that we have their backs, because it is really awful. It is. So it's, it's actually probably the worst thing about it is when I have to deal with a staff member crying in the toilets.
[00:23:09] Pia: I was thinking while you were saying that, that, you know, there's a big age difference and you're, you are the adult there in many respects. And from that perspec, like, what's been your leadership journey with this? Like, what have you really learned stepping into this role?
[00:23:25] Mel: yeah, I think to, to be honest, there's a lot, a lot of stuff from LIW that, um, comes front of mind. I think the biggest leadership piece, um, has been like to be, to be kind to people is probably the first thing. Um, it is. It does challenge you in that you, you, you are dealing with people that come up with every excuse, um, in terms of their shifts or their performance or their sickness or whatever that looks like.
[00:23:55] Mel: And you do become quite numb to it, and you can, you can be quite, not very sympathetic when it comes to certain situations. So that is a piece of leadership to go, okay, how do I rise above it? And be seen to be doing the right thing with the team as well. yeah, and I guess in terms of another big leadership learning, it's being really mindful of how I'm being seen as well.
[00:24:20] Mel: So the team do see me get really annoyed and frustrated and it's, it's just being mindful of the impact that it has 'cause it is an incredibly and frustrating environment. So that's, there is that piece of reflection to go, okay, I don't want them to do it, so I can't be seen to do it.
[00:24:38] Mel: One thing that, um, the team have said to me a few times is they, they can't believe and to, to Luke, they can't believe, um, how kind we are, which is a bit of a shock. I find that almost sad, that comment and, How positive we are. Like every morning we're like, morning, how's it going? Um, so I find, I almost find it is a lovely thing to say, but it's a very basic thing, right?
[00:25:06] Pia: But, uh, your environment is like a microcosm. That's why I asked the question about the community. It's a microcosm of the community and therefore it's how you are role modeling. Being positive, having that positive energy that's so important. And for the young people, if a 15-year-old, um, you don't want 'em to lose hope at 15. You want 'em to see a beacon of light and, and a, you know, and, and an example to that might open up their life, whether they follow, a career, uh, in a restaurant or whatever they decide to do if you open the door on their life possibility, that's, that's kind of What you're trying to do, you're running a business, but you're actually providing a lot of hope for people.
[00:25:47] Mel: Yeah, and I guess even just, um, even just us being around has quite a big leadership impact in terms of we're around, we hear things. We see things. If things aren't right, we, we pull things up, like if the equipment's broken or, um, you know, today we just, it was just crazy busy for about half an hour. Um, and so I jump on the floor and help.
[00:26:11] Pia: Not literally jump on the floor.
[00:26:13] Mel: No. Well, to be fair, sometimes I think, am I actually being more of a pain being here? drop stuff and I'm
[00:26:21] Dan: Showing you, you, you're doing your best
[00:26:24] Mel: Oh gosh. Sorry. I don't your order. this isn't your order, take it. Just take what you can. But it's, it's quite interesting. You like the customers see me and they can tell I'm someone pretty senior and then they're thinking. What is she doing? Um, and you can tell there's this, um, like I even go up to my mom, oh yeah, here's your order, you know, sorry. Let me know if there's anything wrong. And they, they like the fact that I'm helping and I'm interacting with them. And, and there's a bit of like fun in it as well.
[00:26:51] Dan: It shows as well that you are not above the work, doesn't it? That, that it's respectful, it's it's respectable work to do. It's important work to do. It is, you know, that you are not in some way elevated and you're not,
[00:27:02] Pia: which again is another role model. 'cause sometimes you need to roll up your sleeves and just get in there and, and show that, that you are not above it and that you are part of a team. and you're not barking orders and not, not making people feel inferior. You know, these are crucial when you're looking at this age range of sort of, you know, 15 to 18. That's crucial. They're the next. Young adults, where are they gonna learn this if, if they don't decide to learn this in school or they don't learn this at home?
[00:27:33] Dan: So, Mel, I think you've had a, and you have it in the, since we worked together, you've had more leadership experience than most people get in a, in a whole lifetime, I suspect. So what's your one, what's your one tip? What, what's, if you boil all this down, you're just thinking about our list now. Could be a manager anywhere. What, what's, what's the essence of this that you, you've taken away
[00:27:58] Mel: The the one tip. Okay. I think one thing I actually do say this to our managers, especially new managers, the one tip is be mindful of your, um, shadow. So be mindful of your leadership shadow. It's not, you know, it's the words, but it's also just your presence. It's the way you walk. It's, it's everything, right? It's the way you step over a piece of rubbish. Um, I think that shadow is really important, because it says a lot.
[00:28:26] Mel: And also you set the tone, you set the tone for your day, and you set the tone for the shift. So if you come in and you're a bit on edge, well you are just gonna be a bit on edge. and it's really interesting if I come in and I'm not happy. My restaurant manager pulls up like he knows straight away if I am not good.
[00:28:47] Pia: And lovely too, to be human about it. I mean, we all have bad days and not, not such great shifts, but nice. When somebody can recognize it and that actually then makes you more aware. That's good to go. Is everything okay? Maybe
[00:28:59] Mel: What's going on?
[00:29:00] Dan: You are right. No,
[00:29:02] Mel: No. Anyway, carry on.
[00:29:04] Dan: carry on as you were. Um, excellent. That's a really, that's a great one, Mel. Uh, very powerful. And our final question as ever is, um, is a media recommendation. This is about anything that has educated, informed, or entertained you recently
[00:29:20] Mel: Well, the one thing that has entertained me, uh, is actually the Netflix series, the Jackal. Um, it's quite good. I think, uh, well, I dunno if it is good leadership, but it's, uh, about someone who basically lives two separate lives and they're two quite opposite lives, right? Like one's family, kids, happy, perfect life. And then the other side is like sniper. Execution. Um, but it's very interesting. It's almost like, you know, role playing to the extreme.
[00:29:52] Dan: Okay. good recommendation. Superb. Mel, thank you so much. It's amazing to reconnect after all these years and see you in such fine feal, but with thriving, but with, and helping others to thrive and with so much to share. So thank you for doing it on We, we, not me today.
[00:30:08] Mel: Thank you. Lovely to be here. Thanks guys. Appreciate it.
[00:30:15] Pia: When we both worked with Mel, I don't think I've ever come across anyone that has that attention to detail. and nail project management in the way that she did? She was just quite, quite an extraordinary operator. and seeing how she sort of absorbed some of the learnings and, and experiences of being in a leadership consultancy to really.
[00:30:38] Pia: Multiply her thinking for these young people. So we're looking at people from the age of 15 to 22, 20 or 25. and I loved her comment about them thinking about their leadership shadow, their example. and How it sets the tone, the way that they are, the way that they behave, the words that they used it, you know, it's, it seems like old fashioned stuff, but gosh, it's important. It's important. And if you, if you don't have, an adult to set the tone
[00:31:13] Pia: for younger people, you know, I think that's an amazing, um, role model being a female. Being really clear. They know there's a tone in her voice that when she's gonna be like, right, she's in, she's the fox. The fox Terri is out.
[00:31:27] Dan: Fox Terry. Yeah, I think it's quite interesting as well 'cause it's worth mentioning to the listener that Mel is physically quite short. So those stories she told about going out and facing up to these huge people is extra, extra impressive. But of, but her. Her leadership shadow is long and, um, it, it, it's, it's really impressive and I thought it was gr the feedback she gets about being kind and positive I think are particularly wonderful because, you know, we've had a couple of podcasts covering this a little bit, but it's, she's not being nice.
[00:31:58] Dan: She's being kind and positive, but she's holding a line as well. I think for any leader out there seeing the, just. Making sure both of those two are in play. Um, not holding the line by being a business bastard, but also not just being nice and letting standards slip. She's, she holds that sort of, you know, you could say they're yin and yang, but they're not really opposites, but they, they hold it, they make a whole, that's for sure.
[00:32:22] Pia: And the impact that that has on the people that she's working with who are. Emotionally attuned to see when she gets wound up because that's, that's a lot to put on anyone's shoulders. So they need to go mop the FOIA at times to just do a bit of an act of self-care and just to reg regulate themselves.
[00:32:41] Pia: It's amazing. Um, I thought it was a really lovely comment that, that one of her colleagues made, you know, because it does, that's a good way just to kind of like ground yourself and remind yourself of what you're doing, what you're there to achieve and, and that whole leadership shadow. So, you know, Mel, just knowing her well, she does not have any ego does amazing things, and this is a, this is a top star athlete.
[00:33:07] Pia: There's a lot of endurance work, but you wouldn't know. It is incredibly humble, but the strength to be able to, um. To, to really make a stand for all those 115 young people and what they could become. That's a huge leadership journey. I, I certainly feel very, very proud of her. My
[00:33:29] Pia: heart is bursting.
[00:33:31] Dan: Yeah. Completely. And she's just creating leaders in the community. I think the other thing that struck me was really interesting, and I saw this back in, um, I learned this from a role ages ago and in service particularly, and it's worth thinking about for any team.
[00:33:47] Dan: There's these, there are, these cycles, aren't there? I remember when we, we were working in a call center and sort of, if you. Don't have products in stock. Then you end up with people phoning the call center to chase their products and then your call volume goes up and you then get call bot volume delays and people start hanging up and then calling again.
[00:34:08] Dan: You get annoyed customers, they're angry with people on the phone, longer calls, the whole thing's spiraling. And if you can instead turn it the other way round, you've got these positive cycles. And I think in Mel's situation, the team impacts the. Customers and the customers impact the team. There's that sort of, I'm positive we've got everything you want here.
[00:34:29] Dan: I'm polite and you are gonna be polite because there's nothing to complain about, but also you're getting the vibe and then, then we can work in a more harmonious, um, way and we can get your products out to you and be nice to you. And you know, and I think that the. She sort of hinted that when she took it over, there's probably a downward cycle, but it's really think interesting thinking about these tidy upward cycles that, that she's created there.
[00:34:51] Dan: Um, because the actual, you have some influence over how your customers behave towards you, and she's really got that in her teeth.
[00:34:58] Pia: Yeah, it's great. It's done a fantastic job and uh, I still think of all of those people sending out resumes, and not getting anywhere and, and these young people coming from school, getting that experience, they're things they'll keep for life. They'll keep for life
[00:35:14] Pia: and they've, and, and and we'll form the basis of how they approach work.
[00:35:18] Pia: And we need more businesses to be thinking like this. How, how can they, how can, how can they build and grow the capacity in their community, um, and become a role model themselves.
[00:35:30] Dan: Yeah, absolutely. And um, and as we're doing with our daughter, you know, to urge everyone to get into the workplace and don't feel like it's about sending millions of applications, however, sort of standard that is. Get in there, get some experience, learn, meet people, get some, get some development in one of these organizations.
[00:35:47] Dan: It's great to hear in one of these. Big chains of franchise restaurants, that that is possible that you can get a really good, uh, leadership education, um, which is, yeah, inspiring, inspiring to hear. So, uh, thank you Mel, for being on the show.
[00:36:01] Dan: Uh, but that's it for this episode. We, not Me, are supported by Squadify. Squadify helps any team to build engagement and drive performance. You can find show notes where you are listening and at squadify.net. If you've enjoyed the show, please do share the love and recommend it to your friends. Win Not Me is produced by Mark Steadman. Thank you so much for listening. It's goodbye from me.
[00:36:20] Pia: And it's goodbye from me.