Books I Make My Husband Read | Ep05 - The Measure by Nikki Erlick

For their fifth episode, Kristy and Jon transition from the lightheartedness of Episode 04’s romantic comedy to a more serious topic: how would you spend your life if you knew exactly how long you had to live?

Links
Official author website: https://www.nikkierlick.com/

Chapters

(02:25) - Listener question
(04:53) - Book summary
(06:31) - SPOILER ALERT
(06:43) - Kristy's review
(08:52) - Jon's review
(11:14) - Would you open it?
(13:23) - Affecting life choices
(15:44) - Societal ripple effects
(17:54) - Taking risks
(21:14) - Cause or effect
(24:32) - Amie
(28:13) - Nina & Maura
(32:55) - A right to know
(35:56) - Making a aplan
(37:13) - Ben & Amie
(40:57) - Final thoughts

Creators & Guests

Host

Jon King-Pritzl

Host

Kristy King-Pritzl

What is Books I Make My Husband Read?

Join us for a hilarious and heartfelt journey as one book-loving wife curates an unexpected reading list for her husband. With each episode, dive into lively discussions, humorous debates, and surprising insights on the books she just has to make him read. It’s a book club with a twist—and you’re invited!

This is our fifth episode. You believe that shit? At this for two months already or more. It's crazy. More than two months, yeah. It's been great. Yep.

Hello listeners and welcome to this week's episode of Books I Make My Husband Read. I'm your host Kristy and this is my co-host, my husband Jon, whom I make read the books. Hey listeners. This week we'll be discussing The Measure by Nikki Erlick. The Measure is a novel that is meant to be a conversation starter. In the book, the author imagines what would happen if everyone had access to a life-changing piece of information, the length of their lives. Yeah, I enjoyed this one, but in a different kind of way.

That should be interesting. Yeah. So, but before we do that, and get into our discussion, we want to share the next two books we'll be discussing, or should I say the next two books that Kristy's going to make me read. They are Heartless Hunter by Kristin Ciccarelli, The witches one, and Book Lovers by Emily Henry. That one's new to me.

Yes. I'm very excited for you to start Heartless Hunter almost as much as I'm excited for that next book in the series. It is a series of books, TBD, on whether I make you read the rest of them. But I'm excited for that. And I picked Book Lovers since you liked Abby Jimenez's book so much, the rom-com, I figured it was time to give you another one. And so, Emily Henry is another author that is in the same genre. And Book Lovers is my favorite book from her. Good stuff.

Yeah, so don't forget that you can follow us on Instagram and keep up with all the books that we'll be covering at Books I Make My Husband Read. Yeah. And drop us a comment or send us a DM if you maybe have a book that you think would be good for us to discuss or but it won't really count. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, What? This is Books I Make My Husband Read, not books that listeners make us read. Okay, that's fair. But you would still have the power of veto, but we love the options anyways. What will I do with this power? No.

So this week we have another listener's question. Katrina in LA asks, what is your thought process on how you choose the books for your husband to read? I’d love to get my husband to read some of the things I do. So any tips would be great. Well, Katrina, you hold the power. Don't forget that. Geez. That's my answer. I'm just kidding. Damn.

So, I know Jon likes to read. So if your husband just like hates reading, you were probably going to have a difficult time getting him to read. But I would say if that's the case, don't give up. Find something he's really interested in. So if he's really interested in sports, maybe you start by suggesting a book that is centered on sports. If he's interested in dragons, maybe have him read Fourth Wing, although that is pretty thick. So maybe you find a different one that is a little shorter for him. But I would start there.

As for how I picked books for Jon, I typically pick books that remind me of something in our relationship or are something that we have talked about or I know we both really love mystery thrillers. So I'll stick to something that maybe puzzled me in a book, and I think he'll enjoy it. Or there's a character that I just think he will relate to or like, or maybe even despise sometimes. Like, oh my gosh, I need someone to hate this character as much as I hate them.

So I would say that I just pick books that have a commonality between us. And if you are struggling with getting your husband to read or your partner to read, I would just find something small to kick that off and start there and see where it goes. Do you have anything to add to that? No, I was actually kind of curious too, because it just feels like any book you read almost, you just like, you should read this one. But I know that's not true. I know that there are methods to your madness. I do not recommend every book I read, you would not be able to keep I'm barely keeping up with this. You're doing a wonderful job. Thank you. You're a good sport. But thank you, Katrina, for the question.

As Jon mentioned, if you have a question, you can message us on Instagram or you can email us at booksandmakemyhusbandread@gmail.com and we'll be sure to answer any of your burning questions in an upcoming episode. Oh and also this episode is going to contain spoilers. And with a book like this, you're going to want to be mindful of that. So, but we'll let you know in advance before we let the cat named Olivia out of the bag. That was a good one.

Alright, book summary. So it's a typical day in March. You wake up, you pour your coffee, and you head out to the door. But as you do that, you notice a small wooden box waiting for you on your porch. Unbeknownst to you, this box contains your fate inside, the exact number of years you will live.

Yeah, and it's not just you who receive this box. Everyone received it from urban walk ups to desert tents. Every person on every continent gets the same little box. Almost instantly, the world is thrust into utter chaos. Where did the boxes come from? What do they mean? What kind of trickery is this?

Also, maybe this I mean, I know it's a contemporary fiction novel, but let's be real. If someone leaves a random box on my porch, I'm probably not opening it, but that's me. True story.

So soon everyone faces the same shocking choice. Do you want to know how long you'll live? Do you want to know how long the people around you are going to live? And what are you going to do with this knowledge? The Measure follows the story of eight ordinary people as they grapple with this new found reality. Best friends whose fates lead them to separate directions, pen pals finding refuge in the unknown, and a politician whose box lights the fuse on at all. Dun, dun, dun. Shocker. Leave it to politicians. Let's not go there.

This book does or could be really politicized, I feel like, but we're going to steer far away from that because beyond that, it's just a really good, I feel like, thought-provoking book. Yes, it is. That is a good summary, I feel like. And now anything beyond this point will contain spoilers. You have been warned.

Let's talk about what we rated the book. Go for it. I think this book is underrated and I'm going to tell you why. Okay. It is 3.99 on Goodreads. It is 4.2 on Audible. So that's pretty consistent. It just asks a lot of questions like what makes a life valuable? Does the length of your life determine the quality or the worthiness of your life? What does it really mean to live?

And I just found myself at all points in the book wondering what would I do in this position? How would I react? Would I have the same reaction as this character? Even when I didn't care for how the characters reacted, I could see myself, “well, I really understand their frustration” or “I understand their fear” when some of them I felt like were acting negatively.

And beyond that, there were a few characters in the book I just did not care for. But if this were reality, you have those people. I mean, you have those people now in your life that you don't care for. So I just felt the characters felt really real to me, and I had empathy for them and my heart broke for them. I had joy for the ones that had maybe a different perspective on how things went, which we'll discuss, but I don't know, I'm just really surprised by again, how thought provoking this would be.

And I think it's because it is not a plot driven book. It is a hundred percent a character-driven book. You are thrown into this new reality and it's all about the characters. There's no, there's like a starting point in time because it starts with the boxes, but there's no ending point. There's no, they accomplish this thing or this goal, or got past this moment, it's just about their life. So if you don't enjoy a character-driven book, I can understand that you probably are not gonna rate this really well, but I feel like if you want to be in the moment with characters and understand them on a deeper level, it's just so good.

So I am one of those people that likes character-driven books. However, I already saw your rating. So I know what it is. Yes. If you go look at my Goodreads, I did wind up rating this four stars, but I really wavered between a three and a four. I know if there was a three and a half, I might've tapped it, but you can't do half stars. So let me give my reasoning. I really wavered between a three and a four, not because of the subject matter. It's incredibly thought provoking, really more for the storytelling I felt like. And what I mean by that is I just, I felt like the author made me make a lot of big jumps.

For example, Amie's decision to go back into the wedding. What happened when she went back into the wedding? Or Jack's outburst on the stage or bringing the letter to Maura at the end. Like, what happened after? You're just left with these big gaps of time where you're left for me to assume what happened. And I just felt like that was really sort of.. Wouldn't that take you from a five to a four though? No, it took me from a four to a.. I don't understand your question. Like if those are your if if those are your big things, like big things that there were just these jumps in time that left you or moments in time. wouldn't even say it's a jump, like moments where you felt like you missed something. I don't feel like that's knocking two stars off.

Sigh, can't have my own rating. I also felt I'm trying to understand. You can totally have your own. I'm just trying to understand it. And that's what I'm doing. I'm giving you my reasoning. Alright. Anyway, it left a lot of gaps for me to fill in. I also felt at first that there were too many characters. I had a hard time following who was who and when was when. Thinking back, that could have been more from listening to it than if I was reading it and had a little bit better sort of grounding on like when a character was changing. But all that said, like it kept my brain firing. I just want to point out for listeners out there that each chapter says who is who before they go. I know, but now I'm listening to it and I'm trying to keep up who's who and in what pieces and within that there are these jumps and these gaps, I just, had a hard time following. Well, I guess we'll move on.

Let's get into some questions now. And I think the only question I can ask at this point to kick us off is would you open your box?

So we're going straight there, right out of the gate. mean, what else? What else could I give you? I guess that's true. It's basically the premise of the whole book. Creepy box shows up on my door. Who just like opens this? There is a natural curiosity, I suppose. I mean, especially when you know that everyone has received it. Mmm, calling the FBI. Check out this box. We live in Washington, D.C. too. I am not opening any box that randomly stops at my door.

I feel like I'd really struggle with that choice. One moment I'd be like, absolutely I would, and curiosity probably would have killed me before the string had. But there are other times I'm thinking, I don't think I, I don't know if I would. Once you know something, you can't un-know it. You can't un-know it. And we're all going to die, so why does it matter? But I mean, knowing you're going to die and knowing when you're going to die can be a total mind fuck, and it's very different. Very different.

Well, and even in the book, they can tell you, there's a website you can go and they tell you within two years how long you're going to live. And then data gets better. The strings have been around for a lot or a little bit longer, and they can tell you within like a month or something of when you're going to die. Knowing maybe within like two years, not terrible. Knowing I'm going to die this month. Mmmm, no, thank you. No, thank you.

I mean, at the end of the day, if it's just me, I probably, I'd like to think I wouldn't have opened it, but remain blissfully ignorant. I think that it's no different than the way we live now. And we're going to talk about this, but there is some real irrational behavior that a lot people participate in based on how long their string length is. And I just, I don't think I'd want to know. I think I would be terrified. Yeah, I would too. If we were married in this world, then we would not open our boxes. Yeah. That's good to hear if we came to the same conclusion. Yeah, that's true.

Many of the characters in the book rethink their careers, their dreams, and even their views on marriage and children after opening these boxes. Some people quit their jobs, they abandon businesses. There are signs in doors of businesses that say, or signs in windows of businesses that say, “gone to live my life.” Other people even spend their like the remainder of their days traveling. How would knowing the length of your string, or not knowing it maybe, affect how you lived your life?

It would make me re-evaluate everything. If it was short, my first reaction would probably be regretting all the things I hadn't done up to that point and then trying to cram in as much as I could. And if it was long, I don't know, I'd probably steal myself for all the heartache ahead from losing friends and family who were very short stringers. But I think that's part of why I choose not to open it. I'd just be bombarded with all this new anxiety and I'd spend too much time worrying about this stuff versus just living. But I mean, guess knowing what you said about how you wouldn't open the boxes either, how would you approach your life differently?

I guess if I didn't open it, I would try to live, I guess, the same way I'm living now with the idea that hopefully I'll have a lot of time, but also with the same caveat that we're not here forever and you do have to take advantages of things when you can take advantage of them, like going on vacation or saying yes to things that maybe are outside your comfort zone. When the opportunity passes across your way, it's easy to say no to some things and think you have, you're going to be here forever. Time to do it later. Yeah, you don't know when that is. None of us know. So I think that I would try to live it much in the same way.

Now, if it was a short string. think, yeah, I would be thinking the same thing you would. Like, how do I maximize my time? What do I do? How do I want to spend it? Where do I want to spend it? Who do I want to spend it with? And then if it was long, I think the thing about the book is just it's so thought-provoking because whether you have a long string or whether you have a short string, the idea is like, where are you spending your time and who are you spending it with? Because regardless of the length of your string, you're going to have people in your life who have short strings. So it's also about them too, and not just about you. Yeah.

So the author comes up with many unexpected ways the boxes could influence society. There's a rise in experimentation with heavy drugs for long stringers. There's a creation of new dating apps. There is like Tinder for long string and Tinder for short string. That was weird. There's books on ancient mythology that become best sellers again because people are really interested in where these strings came from. But can you think of other ripple effects that the boxes might have on society?

I sat with this question for a while. My first thought was that I actually think this is one area that the author covered really well. I feel like she did a really good job of exploring the gamut, you know, of the different spectrums of reactions and social impact across the globe. But I think maybe one effect could probably be more technological advances, might there come from these boxes. I mean, I'm sure we'd dissect and study the hell out of them, both the boxes and the strings, kind of like how the humans studied the tesseract in The Avengers, like how would they weaponize it, how would they use it to advance good, know, those kinds of things I think would be a plausible social scenario.

Yeah. I don't know that I have a better or a specific answer for this question. I just was curious. And then I agree with you that there were so many instances in the book where I thought, “wow, I didn't think of that.” Yeah. “That would be a fallout.” “Oh wow, that's messed up. That would totally happen.” Like I did have those moments where there was not something I thought of until it was brought to my attention. And it is, I mean, it was a little mind blowing, a little scary. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I had a hard time with this one too, just for that reason. I just, like I said, she did a good job of really exploring the spectrum. Yeah.

And then there were also instances, don't know, it wasn't all scary. They were all also instances where people are like getting used to the idea of this is a reality and wrapping their arms around people and being there for people who have shorter time span when I guess in ways that maybe aren't quite normalized now with the society we live in.

On the same topic though, there are a lot of instances in the book where people participate in these extreme behaviors based on the length of their strings, not just with drugs, but there's actually one part of the book where there is a couple who gets married and like a couple days before their wedding, one of them has a long string, one of them has a short string. So on the day of their wedding, they jump off a bridge and the bride who has the short string dies and the man who has the long string lives. So if you found out you had a long string, not a short string, if you had a long string, what risky behavior, maybe would you participate in that you're not quite participating in now?

I don't know that I would change my risk level too much knowing I had a long string as they say in the book. Like just because you won't die doesn't mean you won't be maimed or paralyzed or in coma. Right, exactly. So doing something crazy just because you think you're going to live through it and then you wind up, like you said, a coma or something worse. And then knowing that like you have an extended life to just be in this state, whatever this state is. I actually think I'd be more inclined to take more risks if I had a short string than I would a long string. But I mean, would you, like how would you, would you try another hoverboard? No, because you can end up paralyzed. Yeah, exactly. Good point. If you don't know me, I was on a hoverboard last year, and I broke four bones in my back. So. It was pretty awful.

I know we both want to skydive, but it's a big risk jumping out of a plane. Like there are risks associated with it. So I had a long string though, I would a hundred percent do it tomorrow because if you jump out of a plane and your parachute does not open, you are splat. There's no walking away in a coma or being paralyzed. You're done. So probably that, maybe multiple times. Cause I imagine that's one of the biggest thrills. Most exhilarating thing ever. Yes. I am slightly terrified of the ocean. So maybe I would do something like, swim with sharks. Yeah. Or like scuba dive or something. I'm also terrified. Oh my gosh. I'm actually not scared of a lot of things, but two of them are the unknown of the ocean and tornadoes. So maybe I would chase a tornado or something. Come and get me. Yes.

Yeah, I think those maybe would be things that would go through my mind. But I hear you on the short string thing because if it gets messed up, you're not going to be around a long time anyway. But it's not like some of these what they call short-stringers are dying within a couple of years. I mean, if you don't live to 70 or 80, that's what they're considering a short string. So you might die in your 40s or 30s, your 20s, guess, if you get it at 22, it probably seems pretty short. But it's not like, oh I only have a couple of years to live. You can know you're going to live into your 40s.

Yeah. The doctor... Hank. Hank. He was in that scenario. He opened his box and his was estimated to be mid 40s and he was basically already in his mid 40s. Yeah, because he was one of the people who get them in when they first come. Yeah.

So speaking of Hank, he is there when there is the Memorial Hospital shooting, which is perpetrated by a short stringer and Nina, who is another character in the book, she describes the boxes as the world's most fucked up version of the chicken and the egg conundrum. Specifically, do people get less care because they have short strings or they have short strings because they get less care. Yeah, I remember that. Which I cannot, you know what I mean? You can't wrap your head around it. So do you see the boxes or the strings, I guess themselves as a cause or effect of human choice?

Okay, so I, before I answer this one, I actually want to turn it around on you first actually, I would love to hear your thoughts. Here we go. Before I share mine. So I look at the strings as there is no free will. That's how I see the strings. Because everything is pre-destined for you. If you were going to die, it doesn't matter what you do. That is, you're going to be the time you die.

For instance, there's another part in the book that's related to this question where Ben brings up about World War II and like what would have happened if the strings would have been or the strings would have arrived before World War II and then suddenly during that period, if you're examining the strings, you would notice an increase in deaths. So would we have known that war was coming or could we have stopped a war? But I think that if the strings are the length of your life, it doesn't matter. You couldn't have stopped the war. It would have happened. So I guess the answer to me is it's a cause of human life because whatever is gonna happen is gonna happen.

So you said something at the start though that you think due to the strings, there is a lack of free will. Did I understand that correctly? I think there's no free will. I mean, you can do what you want, but you don't have choice of how long you're gonna live. That's predetermined. You get this box, it's predetermined for you. Do we have that now though? I mean, yeah, right now, if you go run out in front of a train, guess what? You're dying. But did someone or something or the universe know that you're going to run out in of that train? I guess maybe. I don't know.

Yeah, see, I think that's the angle I took this question is, and I don't think we lose a sense of free will due to the boxes in this. Knowing when you're going to die or, it doesn't take away from the choices that you still have to make leading up to that point. I mean, right now we don't really have a choice of when we're going to die necessarily. I mean, you can live less reckless though. Yeah, but it wouldn't that still be a choice? isn't that still your free will to be like, I'm going to do this? I mean, it could be, it could be predetermined, but we don't know that. In the, in the scenario, they know that. So yes, I do things that will hopefully prolong my life versus shorten it. I see what you're saying. I stay off hoverboards. I guess I'm looking at it through the opposite side of the prism though. You do make choices on how to prolong your life, I guess, but I don't know. I don't think you lose free will from that.

Alright, so one of the characters I disliked a little bit was Amie. She and Ben have this pen-pal relationship and they don't know who each other is. And she wrote to Ben though in one of her early letters that since the strings arrived, so many of our conversations are about such big, heavy ideas and she misses talking about the little things. Do you think Amie's desire to focus on the little things is a healthy way to cope with the boxes? And how is Amie different from other characters who cope with the boxes by viewing them as a reminder to make the biggest possible impact they can with the life that they have?

It's funny to say you didn't like her. I actually resonated with her character. It was clear how complicated the new world was and the internal struggle that she had to sort of balance knowing or not knowing. I think that's probably fair. I'm probably being a little harsh. I just think that Amie is the character who decided not to open her box. The only one. The only one, yeah, of the characters we're introduced to. Yet, when people are making decisions like they have no implications, she is judging them. So yet she's not making decisions based on her string because she doesn't know her string, and other people are doing the same thing even though they know their string, and she's like very judgy about it in this person that she does it specifically to as her sister. And that just like really bothered me about her.

Yeah, I get that. But I think not knowing also gave her a little bit of a freedom or at least like a certain perspective that she was able to retain this kind of “I live this way before the strings so why would I live any differently afterwards?” But that's exactly what I mean though. “I live this way outside of the strings, separate from the strings” but then her sister Nina tried to do the same thing and they have an argument about it because Nina and her partner Maura are gonna get married and Amie's like, “why would you do that?” You know, Nina or Maura has a short string. “What happens if you want kids and you're in your 40s and now Maura is dead and you can't have that?” And Nina says, “this is no different than how was before. People promised till death do us part, not knowing when the parting would happen.” So, that's what really just like pissed me off because Amie's essentially living her life the same way, but she's being a complete hypocrite because Nina is trying to live her life that way.

Sure, that's a good point. So back to the question. What do you think about the idea though that Amie says she misses talking about like the little things? Yeah, that resonated with me. It actually made me think of the last book we did Just for the Summer, where it's just like all the special little moments happen in the folds of everyday life. Rright? Not these big grand gestures or extravagancies. So yeah, I totally agree with that statement. Yeah.

I had the exact same thought, even when I was writing this question, I thought, “this reminds me of Just for the Summer how we're talking about that,” and like exactly what you said, the folds of everyday life. However, do we feel that way because we have, hopefully, or we think we have a long life to live, and we can't spend our life in these huge grand gestures and traveling around the world. That's just not sustainable. Sustainable, thank you. But also, do we only think that because we assume we're going to live long? Sure.

Nina and Maura are a couple divided by their string length. Nina's string is long, while Maura doesn't have much time left. Almost immediately, the difference becomes an obstacle in the relationship. Nina worries, while Maura feels that Nina doesn't understand how she feels. But ultimately, they have a beautiful ending together. What did you think of the way Nina and Maura reacted to their strings? What helped them come to terms with it?

I really liked their story, the ups and downs of the whole thing. It just felt very real. Maura says towards the end of book that Nina was her rock, never really wavering in her commitment to her. And you just alluded to it as well, that Nina was really one of the main characters introducing this idea that it's not the length of your life, but the quality of it. And, so I think what kept them together was their steadfastness and their love for one another and that it's not about how long you're going to be with this person, but what you do with them in the time that you do have. I mean, I don't know, guess how, if we had these boxes and our strings were different, how would you, how do you think you would have reacted?

I mean, I think after the initial shock, nothing changes. I mean, some of the, especially in like the case of Maura and Nina, who had been together a couple of years at this point, they decided to get married. And I think that Nina had over 10 years, 12 years still left to go? Maura had 10. Yeah, sorry, Maura did. Nina has the long string. I think, I mean, I think that's a long time. No, it's not a long time when people think they're going to live to 70, 80, 90 years old, but it's not a short period of time either. Like a lot can happen in 10 or 12 years.

And, something you just said, you know, it's not the length of your string, but it's really the depth of the life that you live with the length of the string that you have. There's also a point where I think Nina brings up that she says, you know, when we think about, you know, the greatest love stories or think about the length of time that they're together, it's really like the impact that they have and then time that they spent together that really matters.

And that's, I said this already, like that's a chance you take when you get married. You don't know how long you're going to be together. Like one of us could get hit by a bus tomorrow. I mean, any human relationship. Yeah. That's really, you just don't know. So I think that you can still live a lot of life. Like it will be heartbreaking, but that's no different again than the risk we take now. Right. Here's the other thing. Nina is going to be in her forties when Maura dies. Who's to say that Nina's not going to have another love. Another life. Yeah. It doesn't take away from the love she shared with Maura. You don't know.

I mean, if I die tomorrow, you're 45. I certainly wouldn't expect you or want you to not be happy with somebody else. I mean, whether that would just be partnering or, you know, married or whatever you wanted. But it would be ridiculous to think that I wouldn't want you to be happy. Yeah, that's a great point. Like, there's still a lot of life left to be had and it doesn't take away. It doesn't diminish the time that you had with that person and however long it may have been.

Yeah, I mean, think that if you believe that there's one person on this earth for you, maybe you can't wrap your head around this. But I don't believe that. I know you don't believe that. Yeah, we have a great relationship. We've been together for over a dozen years. But who knows? You can, I could die and you can meet someone that you love way more than me. That doesn't mean you didn't love me for who I was and where we were at the point in our lives. I do think that that's a hard thing for people to wrap their head around though. Moving on from a long-term relationship or a marriage or anything like that after someone passes. It's difficult.

I'm not diminishing how incredibly difficult it would be, but that happens now. And then they go on the Bachelor. Bachelor, right? Yeah, I mean, you can go on the Golden Bachelor or you can go on the short string. The long string. They actually have that in the book. It was the Bachelor, right? so. I think so, yeah. Yeah.

Oh, the other point that speaking of, know, Nina can find someone new if she wants. Amie talks about this when they're having their argument because Amie's like, you know, why are you gonna marry? Have you thought this through? You're gonna marry her and she's gonna die. She specifically brings up what happens when you're 40 and you decide you might want kids and know, Maura is dead. Like, what are you gonna do? And I just like, you supposed to know that? Yeah, right. I mean, it's just the same as now, but also, again, she could find somebody new. Yeah. I mean, they had also decided they didn't want kids together. But maybe Nina would want kids with someone else had the relationship dynamic been differently. You just don't know. 100 % agree.

Alright, so Claire, Ben's girlfriend, this is in the beginning of the book before he meets Amie. She looks in his box without his permission and finds out that he has a short string. And this upsets him and it ends up leading to their breakup. But knowing that both of us wouldn't look or we think we wouldn't look. But do you feel like friends and family or other loved ones have the right to know each other string lengths?

When I read this question, I had to sit with this one for a little bit, and I would answer it one way, but then as soon as I would stop and I would turn that question back on myself, I wondered if I would be different and would that make me a hypocrite? Which is again, why I sort of felt like I related to Amie's sort of internal struggle of wanting to live this certain way or making this decision, but then still being confronted with the world around you that it's not living the way you're living.

Anyways, I wondered if I would be upset. So if I put in the scenario of like, what I feel upset if a loved one hadn't told me and they wound up dying. Initially, I think I probably would feel hurt that they didn't tell me thinking that they maybe didn't trust me enough to tell me or something like that. But really, that's just my own insecurity with whatever that relationship probably was. I truly believe that it's up to the individual to decide if they're gonna look or if they're gonna share. It's literally their life that it's the most personal. So I would have to believe that they had their own reasons for not sharing it with me and it has nothing to do with me. It had more to do with them.

I think, I mean, really turn the question on myself. If I knew what I tell my family, I would probably want to, I would think. I think there would be a piece of me that would want to share and not feel alone in the knowledge, even though like I know I share with you or whatever. But then I ask myself, who's that benefiting? Is that benefiting me by sharing it? Or is that. are you like unburdening yourself of something? Myself and then putting that burden on them? That's a great point. And so is it even my choice to make to share? Like should I ask them if they want to know? Yeah.

That's such a good thought. Because as you're talking through it, I'm thinking if I had a short string, I'd have a hard time telling my parents, specifically my mother. And if you're listening to this mom, I love you, but if I told you at a short string and you knew I was going to die in my forties or fifties, I think it might hurt. It would like actually might kill you. Although if you had a long string, it wouldn't. But I imagine I would, every time I see you, would cry. So I think that that's not how I would want to spend my time with you knowing it was short. And also I wouldn't want you to live, with that anxiety. Right, exactly. That would be such a burden. Yeah. I don't know. I don't think there's a right answer. I don't either, I think, again, that's why it's really up to the individual to know their circumstance and know their friend circle and their family circle and every dynamic would be different. Yeah.

Speaking of the impact that the boxes have on the families, you see people making decisions based on their strings as they try to plan for their future, what their family is going to look like, children. Do you feel though that knowing the length of your string would be useful in planning a family or falling in love?

There were a number of points in the book where they talk about the dating scene and what that is like in this new world. Short stringers only! Yeah. I mean, like you said, they had like Tinder for short stringers and Tinder for long stringers. Again, it created this divide. Like we've kind of talked about, absolutely think knowing the length of my string would affect my approach to having a family. I just don't know which direction it would have an effect on. Like it could go, I don't want to have kids because of XYZ or because I have a short string or it could be the opposite.

I really don't know, which again kind of just leads me back to like, I just don't think I'd want to open it. I don't think I'd want that burden in my brain and never being able to un-know this thing. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. There's a point where someone says the boxes mean what you want them to mean. So, you know, if you see the length of your string as a value of your life, that's what it will be.

So speaking of you were talking about Amie and Ben and Amie kind of fall in love by accident. So they're the one who are pen pals. If you haven't read it, Ben is actually in Maura’s like short string or support group. He has a short string. Remember his ex-girlfriend Claire opened it up, and that's how he found out about it. Amie's the one who has never opened her string. Or sorry, she's never opened her box so she doesn't know what her string length is. But when she finds out that Ben has a short string, even though she likes him, she's not gonna... and he tries to pursue something with her, she doesn't want to at first because she thinks she's preventing herself from this heartache. What did you enjoy about their story and what did you think about the ending for them?

I was definitely rooting for them. I thought they're, the way they met was, clandestine? Yeah. Yeah, that might be the right word. I think reading through some of that, it actually again, it reminded me a little bit of how we started off. Like we really only had writing and talking on the phone and we just kind of laid it all out there. And that's what they were doing to a certain extent with their letters back and forth to one another. They were just, they had this openness and honestness about them and it just made them that much closer. And so when they actually finally did meet, ironically by accident, there was an instant connection there.

Their ending. So for those who haven't read the book, she knows that Ben is going to live to a certain point in time and it's getting to be about that time and they go to one of Ben's doctor's appointments and they end up getting a car accident and dying together. And then her sister, Nina, opens their boxes and they're the same length. Yeah. I thought it was poetic. I think that's the best word I could think for it. She worried so long about his string being short, and ultimately find, what would happen after he was gone? Yeah. And ultimately just find out essentially they had the same amount of time left, departing in the same moment. Like you just said, I think it was poetic. It's the best word I can think of. Yeah, I think that's the perfect word.

What did you think? Despite your struggles with Amie. Well, it was more than, again, the hypocrisy of how she viewed the strings, knowing she hadn't opened hers. She was making assumptions and criticisms of others from the point of view that she had a long string. Yeah, that's fair. And she didn't know. So she was coming at it from the point of Schrodinger's cat. I mean, okay. So in the paradox, the cat is in this box. It's both dead and alive because you can't know until you open the box.

Right. So she can't know she has a short string or a long string because she's not going to open the box. I see. Ok. So she's judging people from a different standpoint than she's actually in herself because she doesn't know. Yeah. But anyway, I agree. I thought their ending was poetic. I got a little teary. Nina didn't want children. Sorry, Nina and Maura didn't want children together. Nina ends up having to raise Ben and Amie's children after they pass away and it was just really beautiful.

Alright, before I ask you our last question, there is one part of the book where I just, the author says something I just thought was really beautiful. She says, “the beginning and the end may have been chosen for us, but the middle has always been left undetermined.” Yeah, I like that too. It's no different than life now. If our destinies are out there somewhere, it's really up to us of how we're going to fill it. And it's going to be a different length for everybody, but we decide that.

Right, so final question, of course, is do you have any final thoughts? But would you recommend this to our listeners? No significant final thoughts. I would recommend it, but with a caveat, it's a book where I felt I spent more time in my own head, curious about what I would do in certain situations, than wondering like what happens next to this character or that character.

I don't think that's a bad thing. That's my biggest takeaway from the book. It's just different. It's just different. That’s what I loved about it. It reminded me of Station Eleven, which is another book that I made you read when it came out years ago. It was a while ago, yeah. And I remember thinking the whole time, oh my god, what would I do in this situation? Yeah. What are your final thoughts?

I don't know that I have any final thoughts, but I would, I'd recommend this book to people who like books that make them think, as we've talked about. If you like books written from multiple points of views and if you like character-centered stories, again, it is not a plot-driven story. And I also just want to point out that there are some very heavy topics and themes within the book, so it may not be for everybody. Yeah, I would agree.

Well, all right, then we wanted to remind everyone that the next two books in our lineup are Heartless Hunter by Kristen Ciccarelli and Book Lovers by Emily Henry. And as always, don't forget that a free way to support our show is by leaving us a review and rating us on Apple podcasts. Also, if you don't want to rate us, but you have a question or you have feedback on the show, you can email us at booksimakemyhusbandread@gmail.com. We would love, love, love to hear from you. We would.

And I guess that is it. Another one in the books. I'm gonna use that at the end of every episode now. I actually at the end of last episode, I'm like, oh goddamn it, he said it again. And I didn't comment on it. So I was like prepared this time. Nice. Right on.

All right. Well, who knows? Maybe this one will be the one your husband reads. And you should talk about it if he does. Absolutely. But don't make a podcast. That would just be weird. All right. Bye bye.