Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Conversations about Creating a Culture of Activity: Profiling the people, places, programs, and policies that help to promote a culture of activity within our communities.
Note: This transcript was exported from the video version of this episode, and it has not been copyedited
00:00:00:07 - 00:00:31:25
Sam Johnson
So if viewers that may not be familiar with it is historically. It had a lot of car manufacturing and a lot of heavy industry. It's the headquarters of Philips globally and has a still remains a place where a lot of industry and manufacturing and high tech thinking occurs. So it's quite a car oriented. And even the University of Idaho was the brains that kind of supported that industry.
00:00:32:00 - 00:01:16:22
Sam Johnson
But in the last few decades, the what that means is that the city has quite car oriented, built form. It's less dense. It has a ring road, it has much more traffic. It only has around 2020 or so percent mode share for bicycles, compared to its upwards of 50% in places in Amsterdam, and certainly other Randstad cities. So it still has a way to go, but just coming back to that incremental, consistent vision and investment led approach, there have been slowly but surely building out the network and and now you have got great infrastructure everywhere.
00:01:16:22 - 00:01:23:00
Sam Johnson
And the commitment from the government to reduce vehicle kilometers travel year on year.
00:01:23:02 - 00:01:39:28
John Simmerman
Welcome to the Active Towns Channel. My name is John Simon and that is Sam Johnson with the world Bank. And we are going to be talking about livable streets and how livable streets are essential to active mobility. But before we get into that, I just want to say, if you're enjoying this content, you're on the Active Towns Channel.
00:01:40:00 - 00:02:01:13
John Simmerman
Please consider supporting my efforts by becoming an Active Towns Ambassador. Hey, super easy to do. Just click on the join button right here on YouTube or you can navigate over to Active Towns. Click on the support tab at the top of the page. There's several different options, including making a donation to my nonprofit or becoming a Patreon supporter again, patrons do get early and ad free access to all of this video content.
00:02:01:14 - 00:02:08:07
John Simmerman
Okay, let's get right to it with Sam.
00:02:08:09 - 00:02:12:04
John Simmerman
Sam Johnson, thank you so much for joining me on the Active Towns podcast.
00:02:12:07 - 00:02:18:01
Sam Johnson
Thanks very much and fantastic to be here. I've been a long time listener. But first time on the pod.
00:02:18:08 - 00:02:37:27
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. And this is there's a little bit of history, you know, for this episode because we tried to do this some time ago, like almost a year ago, and we weren't able to make it happen. So I'm super, super stoked that we're doing this. Sam, I love giving my guests just an opportunity to quickly introduce themselves. So who the heck is Sam Johnson?
00:02:38:00 - 00:03:09:13
Sam Johnson
Well hi everyone, my name is Sam. I've been working in this field of sustainable mobility since 2017, and most of that time I've been at the world Bank, so I'm a sustainable transport specialist there. I actually didn't start out doing much to do with sustainable mobility, acting mobility. I always involve more in rural road improvements and airport reconstructions and port personality assessments and reconstructions.
00:03:09:13 - 00:03:31:19
Sam Johnson
But then it was after I did my masters at Harvard, I started to think about the fact that there's an obvious thing we're not investing in enough, which is supporting active modes. And then since that time in 2022, I've really made this a mandate of myself and been trying to do what I can to mainstream this into World Bank's projects.
00:03:31:20 - 00:03:33:12
John Simmerman
Yeah, that's a fascinating story.
00:03:33:12 - 00:03:38:04
John Simmerman
So you were there at Harvard. You were right there in Cambridge, Massachusetts, correct?
00:03:38:07 - 00:03:39:00
Sam Johnson
Yes, yes.
00:03:39:01 - 00:03:39:28
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah.
00:03:40:00 - 00:04:02:25
Sam Johnson
It's a wonderful town for for walking and biking. I'd say it's it's a bright light amongst and otherwise gray environment when it comes to the infrastructure in different parts of mass. But it is improving and it actually is still much better than in many places in my, my home country. So it was an inspiring time.
00:04:02:27 - 00:04:23:10
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. You have an accent. You're you're joining us from Down Under and literally down under your way down in Tasmania right now. So how on earth did you land in Cambridge, Massachusetts and Harvard? Was that just simply because you wanted to study there?
00:04:23:13 - 00:04:57:26
Sam Johnson
It's actually the world Bank has very high educational requirements for its staff. So if I wanted to continue to work there, I had to get higher education, additional education beyond my bachelor's in engineering. And it turned out that the program they had there, I really liked the look of it because it was a very multidisciplinary. It was about the ways that, you know, I'm trained as a civil engineer, but I've always been interested in the way that that affects societal outcomes.
00:04:57:26 - 00:05:04:21
Sam Johnson
And so I saw this program, which was all focused on that, and it was the one for me.
00:05:04:24 - 00:05:09:28
John Simmerman
I love it. That's fantastic. What was the name of that program there at Harvard?
00:05:10:01 - 00:05:35:06
Sam Johnson
It's called the Master's in Global Development Practice, and it's run through the extension school. So that was the other benefit of it is that I could do it part time, because with my job, I travel a lot and I'm on the other side of the world so I could remote work for a part of the time and join asynchronously and then spend a bit of time on campus at Harvard in the summer break.
00:05:35:07 - 00:06:04:27
John Simmerman
Fantastic. Now we have an image on screen right now, and I think this speaks eloquently to what we're going to be talking about today, and what I think of when I think of Cambridge, Massachusetts, and some of the wonderful steps that they have been making to make their community overall there in Cambridge more livable. And a big part of that is, is trying to make the streets more livable and, and, and really more people oriented.
00:06:04:28 - 00:06:24:12
John Simmerman
Talk a little bit about what we're going to be talking about today and this this concept of livable streets and towns that require livable streets. And I love the tagline here that, you know, a street is only livable if it enables active mobility. Well, you're talking my language here at Active Towns.
00:06:24:14 - 00:06:53:13
Sam Johnson
Yeah, I've really enjoyed the framing that you've used on this podcast for why active mobility is a good thing, because it's really not about just walking and cycling in itself. It's about what it means for the town and for quality of life and for the economic prosperity of the town, etc.. So I actually, in my advocacy to governments, I, I really labored that I lead that it's about livability.
00:06:53:14 - 00:07:30:01
Sam Johnson
It's not just about getting people moving. And that's the language that a lot of politicians and policymakers can understand and appreciate, because everyone wants to be a livable town. Everyone wants to be at the top of that list. And the reason why I say that there are very many different definitions of what could be a livable street, but I say that a good proxy for getting everything you want is if you make it a street that enables active mobility, because for it to enable active mobility, it's got to be green, it's got to be people first.
00:07:30:02 - 00:07:49:22
Sam Johnson
It's got to have slow traffic, low traffic. It's got to be climate resilient. It's got to be able to handle flooding events. It's got to have good lighting, all of those things area central. And it's only if you do that then you'll end up with a Liverpool street.
00:07:49:24 - 00:08:16:10
John Simmerman
And I like the framing that you have here too, is that, you know, we can think of a livable street as critical public infrastructure of national significance and the work that you're doing with the world Bank. I mean, you're you're you're addressing these issues globally. Yes. You're you're back in your home country. They're in Australia right now, but you've spent the last year or so in the Netherlands, too.
00:08:16:13 - 00:08:42:16
Sam Johnson
Yeah. What you see on screen there is the fact that through the work I was doing in the Netherlands over the last year, I've been trying to elevate this agenda to be something that the national ministries of finance and transport care about, because they are the ones that really control a lot of where the funding goes in the country and what gets done fast within that political cycle.
00:08:42:22 - 00:09:14:28
Sam Johnson
So I wanted to elevate this from being just something that's a municipal and city issue to something that should be done wholesale across the country. And that's also the lever of government. The world Bank typically works with our counterparts and only at that national level. So it means that if you had a nationwide program of improving livable streets, while you can get a lot more done in a lot less time than if you're going at it city by city, of course that's important, but we don't have time to waste.
00:09:14:28 - 00:09:18:22
Sam Johnson
So let's let's get going on a more whole scale manner.
00:09:18:25 - 00:09:51:02
John Simmerman
Yeah. And you know, we see, you know, I think a rather obvious statement here is that, you know, making these investments is an investment in the common good. That makes sense to me. It's obvious to me with with active towns and the framing that we use all the time. And it's also obvious to me, given the context of the you spending time in the Netherlands, my sense is that the Dutch probably do this better than any other nation that I can think of.
00:09:51:04 - 00:10:16:28
Sam Johnson
Yeah, I would agree with that. So I did a context on that. That time I've had in the Netherlands. It's been partly about me learning from the Netherlands and how we can try to incorporate the Netherlands good practices into the projects that the world Bank does around the world. But the other time, and the other heart that I wore while I was there was I was a visiting researcher at to happen.
00:10:17:01 - 00:10:52:12
Sam Johnson
So under Ruth Oldenzaal, who you've had on the program and many other colleagues who had on this program to learn from her about what are the historical main factors that make a walking and cycling city successful or otherwise. And I tried to take that knowledge, but then also working at the university gave me a bit of editorial independence to do my own thinking and come up with this this briefing note, which is being summarized in this presentation.
00:10:52:15 - 00:11:12:09
Sam Johnson
But to the text on screen, yes, I like to position this agenda as something that all sides of politics can get behind. So I really don't like polarization. I really don't like the fact that this agenda can be really so served with the left in some parts of the world, when it actually doesn't need to be that way.
00:11:12:09 - 00:11:28:10
Sam Johnson
That's an artificial creation there. Having a street more livable is better no matter whether you're left, right, red, blue, it's a good thing and it's going to deliver for what you care about no matter what your political bent.
00:11:28:14 - 00:12:09:18
John Simmerman
That's the the same drum that I've been beating as well. And and my question for you is, given the context of the global orientation that you have, what's your take as as to how successful you and I are at delivering this message that right blue you know, it doesn't matter. This this should be this should be something that everybody, you know, perceives as a common good and, you know, livable community should be, you know, wonderful and and desirable for everyone, regardless of the political spectrum.
00:12:09:25 - 00:12:16:24
John Simmerman
Again, how well are we doing it, getting that message out, or is it being co-opted and undermined?
00:12:16:26 - 00:12:41:13
Sam Johnson
I guess we could definitely do better in that we still don't see the majority of streets, new streets being improved and built in this manner. So there's some way to go. But I and I also think that it's one thing to say, it's something that's good for everyone. You need to then tailor the argument to the particular decision maker or audience that you're speaking with.
00:12:41:15 - 00:13:08:08
Sam Johnson
So, for example, and it has to be responsive to the the political priorities at the moment. So in a moment of fuel crises, maybe it's not best to leave with the health angle. It's about talking about how this agenda is important for energy security, economic stability, resilience to financial shocks, this kind of argument, or last year where at least in my home country, the real focus is on the cost of living crisis.
00:13:08:08 - 00:13:19:07
Sam Johnson
Well, it's about reducing costs to households, giving them a flexibility, etc., etc. so we need to be precise and timely with our arguments.
00:13:19:08 - 00:13:44:16
John Simmerman
I like the fact that you you lead with that is, you know, the bang for the buck that we can get kind of changes based on the conditions of the moment, the conditions of the moment that we're in, the reality that we're in right now with the oil prices going through the roof. Yeah. To your point, maybe leading with health care costs, you know, savings is not the way to go.
00:13:44:19 - 00:14:07:27
John Simmerman
You know, livability might have a completely different context when you're looking at your pocketbook and a household budget and going, man, yeah, the bang for the buck that I could get right now if I was living in a community that would support active mobility, is maybe I can just fill up less often, you know, at the pump. And so that could be huge.
00:14:07:28 - 00:14:33:21
John Simmerman
On affordability and household income and being able to live a full life. You know, I feel for for those families that are maybe a family of four or family of five, and they've got a couple of different automobiles and they're driving because that's the only thing that they have. They're really, really suffering in this type of moment that we're in right now.
00:14:33:22 - 00:14:55:02
Sam Johnson
Yeah, absolutely. You're totally right. And you're then you're exposed. If you're in a situation like that where you don't have an option, your hands are tied and then you just need to take the price and that's given to you at the pump. And that's very disempowering for people, of course. But it's all about, as you say. And many others say.
00:14:55:02 - 00:15:25:18
Sam Johnson
It's about giving more options in the mobility system so that in a time like we have now, where fuel prices are going up and sources are a bit scarcer, then that can be used by more essential industries, for example by logistics operators and essential workers. And it gives you that that flexibility to respond like that, rather than just everyone having no option but to have to use a car for every trip.
00:15:25:20 - 00:16:00:04
John Simmerman
Yeah. And we know that, you know, active mobility gives back more to society than it takes away. Versus we know that being car dependent and having to rely on cars for driving everywhere, for everything, you know, cost society. And that's a little bit of what's coming out and teased out with this return on investment. Walk through some of the details of this and there's huge ranges, you know, in terms of what the return is.
00:16:00:07 - 00:16:11:22
John Simmerman
And I would argue based on what we were just talking about, of the price at the pump right now, we could probably even see even even greater returns, you know, on in the current situation.
00:16:12:00 - 00:16:44:25
Sam Johnson
Yeah, you're right that there is there's a range of course, with the the return you can expect. But the main takeaway is that it's basically every time it makes more sense to invest than to not invest. And it's just a matter of how fantastic the good the benefit is going to be. But it's definitely, if not the most economically efficient and effective transport investment you can make.
00:16:44:26 - 00:17:10:10
Sam Johnson
It's it's 1 or 2. It's always up there. Doesn't matter if you're in a high income countries or low income country or in an urban area of a rural area. The economics is always a really positive for this. But what we need to do as well when we do these studies is to also not just show the total cost benefit analysis on a life cycle basis.
00:17:10:12 - 00:17:43:25
Sam Johnson
We also want to show the financial returns, the the revenue generation opportunities for households and for local job creation and for new taxes gathered by the government, because it's those short term financial flows that policymakers are typically more interested in. Even if this investment on a 20 year basis is going to be the right thing to do. And that's how we evaluate all our transport infrastructure, and we should do that.
00:17:43:25 - 00:17:58:27
Sam Johnson
But they're going to be really motivated if they can see that in the next five years. This is going to bring in X amount of revenue or generate X amount of jobs. So when we do these, these these analyzes, we should push those arguments to.
00:17:58:28 - 00:18:00:00
John Simmerman
I love the how.
00:18:00:00 - 00:18:15:20
John Simmerman
This particular chart is, is laid out and how you identify these monetizable key benefits. And then in parentheses it says non-exhaustive I love that non-exhaustive. Dive a little deeper into that.
00:18:15:27 - 00:18:42:18
Sam Johnson
Yeah. The the non-exhaustive is just to say that there are other types of benefits that could be added to this list. And I just put it there to give a flavor of what's out there that there's plenty so, so not overwhelm the reader. I, I don't add all of the citations for each of these evidence, the evidence for each of these.
00:18:42:22 - 00:19:14:28
Sam Johnson
But but it is out there. And I also have divided them by who benefits, because that political economy element is really important, because if you are a an employer, you care about having a more reliable, healthier workforce that takes less sick days and is happier and more productive. You may not care as much about whether it reduces the carbon footprint.
00:19:15:00 - 00:19:28:10
Sam Johnson
You may care, but it's not a primary concern. And so I think it's important to make an effort to you say, highlight and strengthen and prioritize certain arguments to certain groups.
00:19:28:10 - 00:19:29:06
John Simmerman
I also.
00:19:29:06 - 00:19:54:16
John Simmerman
Read into non-exhaustive in the context that it just keeps giving back. It's not like you just get a quick hit of a return on investment of X, and then it no longer gives you that return. I mean, it's non-exhaustive in the sense that every year, year after year, you're benefiting from having an environment of livable streets that promote active mobility.
00:19:54:18 - 00:19:55:28
John Simmerman
It just keeps giving.
00:19:56:00 - 00:20:29:00
Sam Johnson
That's that's very true as well. And I like that that positive, that interpretation because it is the case. And in the Netherlands, thinking back to my time, they do that. They're getting these benefits every year, have been getting these better fits every year for decades and decades and decades. And they're set to continue to do that because they've got the path dependency and how their transport system works, that many, many people are going to keep walking and cycling into the future.
00:20:29:00 - 00:20:32:20
Sam Johnson
And we need to get other countries on that same path. Dependency.
00:20:32:22 - 00:20:49:06
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. However, the status quo over the last 80 to 100 years is the reality that we're not really investing very much in livable streets. How bad is it?
00:20:49:07 - 00:21:16:15
Sam Johnson
It's pretty. Pretty bad. And a bit of context to this work as well, is I did it in the with the knowledge that right now we have just started the UN deck, the Sustainable Transport, which will be a ten year initiative, which its purpose is to put a focus at the highest level amongst national governments that we need to invest more in sustainable mobility in this next ten years.
00:21:16:21 - 00:22:00:01
Sam Johnson
But under business as usual, we are expected to not spend very much of the large amount of investment that you see on screen over the that's the period through to 2050, but you could say a third of that is going to happen in the next ten years. Only a very small portion of that, a trickle of that is going to go to active mobility, because there's all this path dependency in the large road networks, car centric road networks that government have to maintain, but also that the operands and the the systems in government are set up to push more money to these kind of cost centric investments.
00:22:00:01 - 00:22:29:21
Sam Johnson
The whole internal architecture of appraisal and design and construction is geared in that that manner. And I would like to see more of that funds, even a small part of that fund being pushed towards more livable streets. So what you see on screen is just a one assessment of the amount of investing, dedicated investing that's going to what I would call a livable street investment.
00:22:29:21 - 00:22:57:10
Sam Johnson
So that's something that is a facility that is mainly its main purpose is to support walking and cycling. And so in Europe, which we associate with being like the leading region for investing, there are some standouts and some fantastic examples in Ireland who I would encourage you to get some people from the Irish government on the podcast at some point, because they're doing fantastic things.
00:22:57:12 - 00:23:15:27
Sam Johnson
Been investing more than €1 million a day for the last six years now. I believe Luxembourg, Flanders. But overall, they're still only investing about two cups of coffee or three cups of coffee per capita.
00:23:16:00 - 00:23:25:15
John Simmerman
I love I love that two cups of coffee per capita now is that annually, two cups of coffee. Oh my gosh.
00:23:25:16 - 00:23:58:22
Sam Johnson
Annually. Annually. Yeah. So it's and this this is in comparison to like if you look down at my home country in Australia, it's not like there's a, there's a lack of investment in transport infrastructure or road infrastructure because in Australia we invest €50, but we do €200 per person just from the national government in roads generally. So the money is there, but it's just not flowing to these kind of investments that we'd like to see.
00:23:58:26 - 00:24:20:25
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. And to to your point, we've got to accelerate this. We cannot just keep going. Status quo of pittance going towards active mobility, sustainable transport solutions. We have to change this. We have to change the paradigm.
00:24:20:27 - 00:24:50:12
Sam Johnson
Yeah we do because and it's encouraging that many, many transport agencies and authorities around the world and local governments and cities, they are developing their strategies. They are developing their their network plans. But if you have a network plan that doesn't have set aside budget consistently year on year to do the capital works, then it's does it really exist?
00:24:50:16 - 00:25:00:01
Sam Johnson
It needs to be funded and implemented and maintained, and in many places it's going to take hundreds of years at the current pace of investment.
00:25:00:08 - 00:25:25:09
John Simmerman
Yeah, that's the small print right there. It's going to take hundreds of years to deliver. And just to put that into context, folks, I mean, we all look to the Netherlands and the stories of how they transform their streets. You know, 50 years ago, starting 50 years ago, there's still in the process of transforming their streets. Now, it's not, you know, completed.
00:25:25:09 - 00:25:59:08
John Simmerman
It's not done. It'll never be done. The point is, is that these things do take time. But if you're only investing tiny, tiny little pittance of the overall budget towards it, it's yeah, it's going to take hundreds of years versus what we saw in the Netherlands, where they had a sea change of the built environment and really, truly building out livable streets and livable communities to the point now where they are arguably the world's best example of getting this stuff done.
00:25:59:08 - 00:26:10:07
John Simmerman
And relatively speaking, it happened quite quickly there. Within two, three, four, five decades, they were able to to accomplish an awful lot.
00:26:10:09 - 00:26:32:00
Sam Johnson
Yeah, absolutely. And and this is not going to happen over overnight, this transformation. But what's important is to just keep stepping in the right direction a little bit faster each year. And because if we go at the pace we go now, it's it's not going to get us there. So that's my argument on this on the screen.
00:26:32:01 - 00:26:50:25
John Simmerman
Yeah. And you mentioned earlier that it's this is the you the UN has declared 2026 through 2035 as the Decade of Sustainable Transport. Anything else that you'd like to add to that before we go on and look at some more of the examples here?
00:26:50:26 - 00:27:35:19
Sam Johnson
Yeah, I would say that this UN decade is going to promote a lot of different things. There's a lot more to transport and logistics system than just active mobility. It needs to promote decarbonization in all forms. It needs to promote changes in maritime industry and aviation industry. There needs to be a lot more investment in public transport. And there's so many competing agendas that I, I have just been and my colleagues have been trying to make sure that active mobility doesn't get forgotten, as it typically does, that this is something that's a small part of the overall picture, but it'll it's a very high bang for your buck thing to do, and we should make
00:27:35:20 - 00:27:36:12
Sam Johnson
sure we do it.
00:27:36:13 - 00:28:09:12
John Simmerman
And that's what we see sort of annually. You know when the the cop meeting happens and takes place and you have people coming in from all over the world to kind of have some of these discussions and everything and the, the ECF, the, you know, the the European Cyclists Federation is right there, along with the Dutch cycling embassy and other entities banging on the drum saying, hey, you can't just not consider active mobility seriously.
00:28:09:12 - 00:28:36:22
John Simmerman
And a few years ago it came to a head where, you know, the agenda was not reflecting the fact that, you know, active mobility, you know, really was being deprived or just not even thought about everything was about electric vehicles and technology solutions and blah, blah, blah. And we need all of that too. But if you just completely forget active mobility from the equation, you're missing a big part of this.
00:28:36:24 - 00:28:43:01
John Simmerman
And so I think that's why this is so important, this concept of investing in livable streets.
00:28:43:03 - 00:29:05:08
Sam Johnson
You're spot on. And just to call out to those groups like ECF etc., I think that the advocacy that they do at the global level has been tremendous. And that cop a few years ago, where it was quite outrageous that there was no justice on walking and cycling at all in the agenda. And now look at where they come.
00:29:05:09 - 00:29:17:13
Sam Johnson
It's now systematically every year and being supported and getting more and more center stage attention. So kudos to them for that.
00:29:17:15 - 00:29:44:14
John Simmerman
So the question here is what should we do with this UN decade. And and I think that's where the rubber starts hitting the road in terms of of what nations can be doing. And this is again, keeping in mind that this is the world where you're thinking, you're thinking at this at this global level and trying to engage nations to get serious about the investments.
00:29:44:14 - 00:29:54:06
John Simmerman
And we'll see a little bit in just a bit what we mean by adjusting those, those investment levels. But go ahead and take it away with this slide.
00:29:54:08 - 00:30:23:08
Sam Johnson
This slide is again coming back to the fact that investing in active mobility is not just something for cities and towns to think about and be responsible for. And those levels of government really trying to say that just like historically, the national governments are very proud typically of their highway system, and they're having a safe and efficient port system and aviation system.
00:30:23:10 - 00:31:08:03
Sam Johnson
This should be up there with that. This should be something that is a source of national pride. And and not just because Ferro feel good reasons. It's strategically the smart thing to do. It will deliver on all of these key national development priorities. But because active mobility doesn't require as expensive infrastructure and as complex infrastructure, it therefore the lack of complexity, I think, wrongly gets associated with being something that's not as important for delivering on the national economic vision and priorities, but actually it's because of that lack of complexity and lack of cost.
00:31:08:04 - 00:31:12:24
Sam Johnson
That means it's a fantastic thing to do. It will make your money go a long way.
00:31:12:26 - 00:31:37:18
John Simmerman
Yeah, it's it's funny because oftentimes we hear from the critics that are, you know, of not sticking to the status quo. Is that. Oh, this is just too expensive. We can't afford to do this. And that's a red herring. We all know if we really take a step back and look at the numbers, that it's dirt cheap. It's really, really good.
00:31:37:18 - 00:32:08:08
John Simmerman
Return on investment. Which brings us back to that concept of return on investment. What your ROI for for investing in this? Well, if I invest $1 in this, I'm going to get 1.7 to who knows how many dollars in return from this. I mean, it really is, I think, foolish for nations as as well as states as well as cities, you know, at the municipal level, not to be thinking of this as an investment in their future.
00:32:08:08 - 00:32:36:21
John Simmerman
So with that, we need to have a shared, implementable, implementable vision to really give that adrenaline shot. And that's where even here in the United States, where the vast majority of the responsibility of building out the active mobility network falls on the shoulders of the municipality. The reality is, is a lot of the funding filters in from the national government, not all of it.
00:32:36:21 - 00:32:59:24
John Simmerman
And some cities have the ability to mobilize the community. And the community, you know, says, yes, this is what we want. We want more livable streets, and we're willing to pay for it. And they'll tax themselves even more than they already are to make that happen. That's good when that can happen. But that's not necessarily the model for implementation everywhere.
00:32:59:26 - 00:33:05:07
John Simmerman
So you have a plan. Boom.
00:33:05:09 - 00:33:10:19
Sam Johnson
Yes. Yes. So.
00:33:10:21 - 00:33:52:03
Sam Johnson
You've got to it's hard to have a vision that is applicable in all 193 UN member states. So I am with what I propose here. It's it's a generalization. It may not be the perfect fit everywhere, but I think it's the direction that everywhere should go. And it's basically to use this UN decade as a political permission slip to acknowledge that, yes, right now, in most countries in the world, my country, your country are investing very little.
00:33:52:03 - 00:34:27:08
Sam Johnson
And we want that to change and that in order, we can use this UN decade as a focus period where by the end of the decade, we want to say spend normally 10% of road capital expenditure on livable streets. And this means it's not about going from 0 to 100 overnight. It's about a graduated, planned, scaled journey where, say, every year you set aside 1% more of the capital road budget.
00:34:27:13 - 00:35:03:03
Sam Johnson
And if we do it at that pace or pace, that this is something that is more politically acceptable but also more technically implementable, because it takes time to do the design work, to get the approvals, to do the community consultation, etc., etc. for the industry really to be ready to deliver this kind of infrastructure, because in many countries there's a shortage of skilled practitioners and design practitioners and construction practitioners, etc. to deliver it.
00:35:03:03 - 00:35:44:07
Sam Johnson
So like any investment boom, it happens over time and capacity improves over time. So this is the vision. And in some places we'll want to go faster than this. Indeed, there are some places that already have gone faster than this. For example, Ireland, which has been setting aside 20% of its transport capital budget. So as you see on the screen here, that's an even bigger pool of funding that that's saying that out of all the money they set aside for roads, rail, public transport, maritime, they're setting aside 20% of that for walking and cycling.
00:35:44:07 - 00:36:07:07
Sam Johnson
So a much, much more ambitious allocation. But to be universally applicable for all those 193 nations at different levels of development and build out of their road networks, I thought it was safer to start with a smaller goal, but practitioners can decide for themselves if they want to be more ambitious.
00:36:07:09 - 00:36:38:20
John Simmerman
Yeah, and for the viewing audience, you may have a difficult time seeing that tiny little red dot there that represents less than 1%. And so, yes, many of the national budgets that are currently investing in livable streets is less than 1%. And we're saying that it should be a target of at least 10% by the end of 2035.
00:36:38:20 - 00:37:10:25
John Simmerman
And as you mentioned, Sam stepping that up to that level. And then, you know, in some circumstances it may be double that, it may be triple that. In the case of Ireland. Now, I haven't had a chance to make it to Ireland yet. I came close, I was I just ran out of time. I was in London for the better part of a week, was able to break away and make it up to Scotland, up to Edinburgh and, and you know, get a, get a sense as to what's on the ground happening there.
00:37:10:27 - 00:37:26:25
John Simmerman
Any success stories that you know of there in Ireland in terms of, you know, the bang for the buck that they're getting with that investment? Because as you mentioned, it's not like they just started this level of investment last year. They have been doing this year over year for a while now.
00:37:26:27 - 00:37:54:20
Sam Johnson
Yeah, I think from if my memory doesn't fail me, it was 2019 where the political commitment was made and it came into effect from 2020 onwards, where 20% of the budget would be set aside. But this was a huge that normally is, I think was around €340 million of investment that would be set aside, which was a huge scale up from in the previous year.
00:37:54:20 - 00:38:28:03
Sam Johnson
It was around 40 to €50 million. So we're talking A7X change in the pot available in one time cycle. So it definitely took them a bit of time to get their systems in place to to spend that much. And I think they had a lot of they did a lot of efforts to upskill their local industry with their the engineers Island did a lot of internal training to the engineer teams, and they had to get their ducks in a line, so to speak.
00:38:28:03 - 00:39:09:08
Sam Johnson
But now in 2026 and maybe in the show notes, I can ensure your viewers have a link to their main website. They are consistently year on year, pushing out hundreds of projects all across the country, totaling hundreds of kilometers of new infrastructure a year. So I think they've got the show on the road now, and I should just say one small correction to the previous slide is that I'm not just advocating that national governments set aside 10% of their transport infrastructure, a bigger part in their road capital, infrastructure spending.
00:39:09:09 - 00:39:46:08
Sam Johnson
I'm saying that should happen at all levels of government. So national, subnational, if you're in a federated system, like in Australia or Canada or China or US, then those state deities should also seek to deliver on that. And then as a matter of, you know, solidarity, the city government should also seek to do the same. But I also understand that city municipal governments tend to have a lot less leeway and flexibility.
00:39:46:13 - 00:39:55:14
Sam Johnson
They have quite tight budgets, so it may be harder for them to to set aside that amount of money. But it's possible.
00:39:55:16 - 00:40:26:19
John Simmerman
Possibly. I mean, yeah, I mean, I think it really depends on what's coming down from above. So I mean, if suddenly, you know, you see a doubling and a tripling and a quadrupling of the amount of money that's flowing from the federal government to the state and regional governments to the pot and then down to the cities, their cities, in my estimation, in my experience, have been quite resourceful at doing amazing things with very little funding.
00:40:26:19 - 00:41:03:19
John Simmerman
If you give them even more funding. Yeah, I think that they'll be able to to ramp up a city. The great example would be the city of Austin, where I was at for the last 11 years before moving back to Hawaii. And again, the voters voted in a windfall of money to be invested into the build out of the Active Mobility Network, which was building out a Dutch inspired cycle network that was appropriate for all ages and abilities, really honing in and improving on safer pedestrian experiences and pedestrian crossings and things of that nature.
00:41:03:19 - 00:41:32:04
John Simmerman
And because the city can't ramp up and hire and train, you know, the staff necessary to do that, they went to a staff augmentation model where they hired one of the very talented firms that exists here in North America to, you know, provide staff that have the experience and are ready to hit the ground running and work on that design.
00:41:32:04 - 00:41:59:15
John Simmerman
And so very, very quickly, in the period of, of two and three years and four years, you're seeing a doubling and a tripling of the amount of high quality infrastructure on the ground. And then that cycle just continued throughout that entire decade that I was there in the city. So I think that cities are a lot more flexible than we give them credit for, because they can move quickly.
00:41:59:16 - 00:42:20:18
John Simmerman
Oftentimes, what's holding cities back in the United States is that when those funds do flow down from the federal government, there's oftentimes so many strings attached and so much bureaucracy that it takes years for them just to navigate being able to get those grants and get them, you know, you know that, get that, put that money to work.
00:42:20:18 - 00:42:39:10
John Simmerman
I think that that has to happen first is we need to make it easier for, you know, the municipalities, the cities to be able to build quickly, get the money out to them, you know, with less, fewer of those strings attached so that they can really mobilize.
00:42:39:12 - 00:43:05:20
Sam Johnson
A few things come to mind from that point. One is a personal one that actually I, I did a road trip across the US in 2016, and one of the places I stopped was in Austin and Fantastic City. Very jealous you got to live there leaven years, but definitely felt very car at a time. So it's a note to myself.
00:43:05:21 - 00:43:35:02
Sam Johnson
I've got to find a reason to go back and see the changes, because I have seen them online and they're doing fantastic work. The other point I had was about the design of how the funds flow down. Very important. And sometimes a lot of these higher level government programs at such a pain to apply to and have so many strings attached, as you say, that it's not worth the time of the cities and towns to do it.
00:43:35:09 - 00:44:00:25
Sam Johnson
So I've had a bit of a think about that in this piece. And in the show notes, we can attach that Frequently Asked Questions document, which goes into the detail of some pitfalls and good practices to consider when designing these livable street investment programs, so that they don't become burdensome to apply to and report to.
00:44:00:28 - 00:44:37:18
John Simmerman
As you know, because you're a fan of the channel here and the the podcast, I love honing in on beautiful pictures and trying to tell the success stories that, yes, these things are happening. Walk us through this, this sort of collage of images, and it provides some inspiration for those tuning in today, that it doesn't matter where you are tuning in globally, your community, your state can do this, your national government can embrace this, and we can start seeing success.
00:44:37:20 - 00:45:07:21
Sam Johnson
So the context of these images you see on screen is that once you have some a pool of funding set aside to invest in Liverpool streets, you want to make sure that that funding is being spent on high quality outputs and not on. We've all seen we've all been horrified by when you wait many years to get some new infrastructure built, and then what gets them is not very good or it's obsolete very quickly.
00:45:07:21 - 00:45:46:09
Sam Johnson
So in terms of conditionality of using those funds from the national and state government, cities should be required to build high quality. And what I show on screen is an example of what I consider high quality infrastructure. So these would all be facility types that a livable street investment program would fund. So you have bike paths, cycle parking facilities which can be underground, positioned at train stations or at key transit stops and stations.
00:45:46:09 - 00:46:12:09
Sam Johnson
They can also be above ground or near key public destinations, walking and cycling bridges. Sometimes they can be separated, sometimes they can be mixed depending on the circumstance. Bicycle streets, playgrounds and parks. School streets these are all high return on investment facilities that will make the city more livable.
00:46:12:10 - 00:46:13:28
John Simmerman
Can I push back just a little bit?
00:46:14:00 - 00:46:14:20
Sam Johnson
Of course.
00:46:14:21 - 00:46:17:07
John Simmerman
I love that..
00:46:17:09 - 00:46:48:07
John Simmerman
I'll use the Paris School street example, which is the image in the bottom right corner here, and say that I would prefer that cities and states and national governments embrace the concept of let's get this going fast, let's do something right away. And in the case of like the school street example here, which is a beautiful example of where they've done some De paving, they've brought some green infrastructure in.
00:46:48:07 - 00:47:19:18
John Simmerman
And I've documented in Paris some of the wonderful permanent school street applications that they have there. But I would say that I would embrace the concept of interim steps is literally embrace this concept. We are going to make it safer around our schools for our kiddos today. Tomorrow we're going to make this happen and you implement, you know, whatever you have to do to implement to bring the motor vehicle traffic speed down or eliminate it.
00:47:19:18 - 00:47:44:14
John Simmerman
And you use lighter, quicker, cheaper materials to get it done. You've got the national funding coming down that's allocated at 20, ten, 20, 30%, whatever where our target is that we're getting, you know, in. Then you start that design process of getting in. The last thing in the world I want to see is cities feeling like the only way we can implement anything is it has to be world class.
00:47:44:14 - 00:48:10:25
John Simmerman
It has to be beautiful to this level. So I want to just say that I would prefer that there is that spirit of lighter, quicker, cheaper, get it on the ground, maybe even learn from that experience, iterate and and adjust. And then when as that money is continuing coming in and you're working on the the design of what that permanent infrastructure would be, then you, you know, it's already done.
00:48:10:25 - 00:48:21:04
John Simmerman
You've already changed the driver behavior with your interim materials. And then you can do it. Feel free to push back if you disagree with that.
00:48:21:07 - 00:48:47:06
Sam Johnson
The funny thing is where it's actually not a pushback in the end. Because because I agree with you and I. I have the same thing in the document. So in in the in the guide to designing these Liverpool Streets investment programs, I have four main categories of eligible investments. And one of them is the design of permanent infrastructure.
00:48:47:06 - 00:49:25:01
Sam Johnson
And one of them is the construction of permanent infrastructure. Another is capacity building to industry and government on on how to to do the work. But then the fourth one is what I call street activations, which is money set aside to do interim interventions. And I don't leave with that in these pictures that you see here, because I think that one downside is that if you focus too much on tactical urbanism, then you can just end up with a city full of flexible posts and painting that isn't maintained.
00:49:25:01 - 00:49:48:19
Sam Johnson
And and then they don't take that next step. But absolutely, it's essential in many places to do the interim first build. The political will start to change behavior patterns and culture and mobility, and at the same time, being in the background, doing the design and securing money to make it permanent.
00:49:48:21 - 00:50:15:28
John Simmerman
Yeah. And in fact, this collage of photos has at least two, maybe even three images that embrace some of the lighter, quicker, cheaper materials of deploying something, getting it in place again, changing that, the expectations of what the street is for. And then you can always come back around. But yes, to your point, you can't just say, okay, well, we're going to use these temporary materials and then they become permanent.
00:50:16:03 - 00:50:44:13
John Simmerman
It has to be the thought process of, okay, we're putting this down fast so that we can change the driver behavior. We can change the perception of what the streets are for, and then follow that up with significant investment that really makes it truly beautiful and livable, to the point where people are like, oh yeah, not only do I enjoy being here, but I and I enjoy being here because it feels safer.
00:50:44:13 - 00:50:46:06
John Simmerman
It feels more welcoming.
00:50:46:08 - 00:51:19:07
Sam Johnson
Yeah. I think that national and subnational governments, they have a role in helping fund these technical interventions, because sometimes even these tactical interventions, they can be quite expensive, which may seem counterintuitive, but to your point about earlier, that sometimes for cities and towns, it's just a lot of bureaucratic, burdensome work to control, to get money from higher levels of government.
00:51:19:09 - 00:51:47:25
Sam Johnson
I would rather make sure that the higher levels of government are transferring serious sums of money and not, you know, you don't have a city going through this long competitive grant process just to secure $20,000 to do a tactical urbanism on a few intersections, if they're going to go to all that effort to apply, they should get that, but then also secure the $2 million or whatever it is to make the the measure permanent.
00:51:47:26 - 00:52:21:20
John Simmerman
Yeah. I also want to linger just a little bit more on this collage of images and really focus in on the Rotterdam photo in the upper right. And again, the Dutch are such a wonderful example for so many different reasons. But one of the things that I love about their system is the fact that they have the redundancy of mobility networks, you know, at the very, very lowest level, you have the most natural of mobility options, of being able to walk to many, many destinations.
00:52:21:20 - 00:52:53:19
John Simmerman
And then you have the ability to safely get around by bikes and other wheeled mobility devices, you know, through that mobility network that is completely built out. But then you have what you also see in this photo here is you see the transit, the integration of the active mobility networks with the transit network. Again, that redundancy of the mobility networks at any given day, I can wake up and decide, hey, I'm going to walk to my destination.
00:52:53:19 - 00:53:15:22
John Simmerman
I'm not going that far. Maybe it's a little far, but not that bad. It's a beautiful day. I'm going to walk. Maybe I'm in a bike. Maybe I'm going to combine different modes. I'm going to walk, and then I'm going to ride transit. And then when I get to my destination, I'm going to use the ov feets bike and cycle to my final two kilometers to where I'm going.
00:53:15:25 - 00:54:00:07
John Simmerman
It's just absolutely brilliant. And then the final Mobility Network is, yes, the driving mobility network. You can drive literally anywhere and everywhere that you need to get to. So it's not like they're anti car to the point where you can't drive to places. No, you totally can't. It's that you have mobility freedom and mobility options and choice. And when you look at the that transport budget and we're talking about 90% or 80% is going to other things, I hope that a significant amount of that's going towards a transit network the way the Dutch have, because that's one of the beautiful things about their that balance is that on any given day, you know, anywhere between
00:54:00:07 - 00:54:20:06
John Simmerman
40 to 50% of people are arriving at a train station by riding a bike and then getting on the train and then going to the next town over, or several towns over. So I just wanted to integrate, you know, talk about that, is that it's not just that they have these redundancy of mobility networks, but they're also integrated too.
00:54:20:10 - 00:54:53:02
Sam Johnson
I'm talking about that that multimodality, the public transit walking in cycling connection. I put on my my world Bank because many, many cities in low middle income countries right now are building out mass transit networks like new metro systems and bus rapid transit systems and bus networks. And unfortunately, in many cases, they're spending billions and billions of dollars on that infrastructure.
00:54:53:02 - 00:55:18:27
Sam Johnson
But they're not thinking about the station access and stop access and surrounds. And just purely if you are the the operator of that network, you want to have really good quality walking and cycling, connecting to your stops, because it's going to increase your ridership dramatically. As you say in the Netherlands, they have a situation where like 50% or 4050% of all trips started with a bike ride.
00:55:18:27 - 00:55:37:08
Sam Johnson
But I know a few decades ago they had numbers nowhere near like that. And it's happened because of sustained investment in the strategy from the government. And the exact same thing can be done in all these other cities and countries that are building out mass rapid systems.
00:55:37:09 - 00:56:12:20
John Simmerman
I think it's really been a brilliant example of understanding human behavior. You know, I had the honor of having Professor Donald Shoup on on the podcast a couple of different times, and he and I had a chance to to record our final episode just a few weeks before he passed away. And he used to like to say and remind us that the one of the high costs of free parking is that when you have free or underpriced parking, it's like a fertility drug for cars because, you know, it's there's a little friction there.
00:56:12:20 - 00:56:45:16
John Simmerman
And one of the brilliant human behavior strategies that the Dutch have employed with the success of integrating the train travel and bike travel, is that they have made it ridiculously easy and seamless for people to ride a bike to the train station. You know, one of the images that you had was the beautiful new high comfort, high quality train station bike parking facility there in Amsterdam, literally underground, literally under the water.
00:56:45:19 - 00:57:16:25
John Simmerman
And it's just fantastic when you make it easy for people to do the behavior that you would want them to, you know, adopt, you're decreasing the friction for them to choose that mode. It's been too easy in most of our car dependent societies to just grab for the cars, the car keys, because the car keys that mode is, is like totally subsidized and facilitated and made easy.
00:57:16:26 - 00:57:35:06
John Simmerman
The only real friction that we have is that too many of us are doing it, and so it's a miserable experience. So anyways, I just wanted to to throw that out there because I think that that's one of the great things that when you say, well, is it just build the infrastructure and then they'll come. That's part of it.
00:57:35:07 - 00:57:50:00
John Simmerman
If you don't build the infrastructure, they can't come. But at the same time, there's a lot of thought being put into it from a human behavior perspective, you know, and it gets down to their five things of is it cohesive and is it comfortable and is easy to use.
00:57:50:01 - 00:58:24:28
Sam Johnson
So I think that's really eloquently said, and I think that we need to start having the a much higher ambition in and prioritization of our walking and cycling and livable streets infrastructure to the same ambition level that we have had in the past. With our car oriented investments, we can build beautiful and Claire careful and clever infrastructure and and spaces and and do the education and awareness.
00:58:25:01 - 00:58:54:12
Sam Johnson
But we just need to really put our minds to it and prioritize it. It's totally possible, as you see in the Netherlands, where they've been doing it for a few decades and it's highly effective. And I just as a as an aside, like having lived there for a year, I would never, ever let anyone tell me that it's the weather that means whether you can walk or cycle on it, because it rains 200 days of the year in the Netherlands.
00:58:54:12 - 00:59:05:18
Sam Johnson
It's genuinely terrible. But the system and the culture and means that it's still the logical, comfortable, convenient thing to do. So we can do it.
00:59:05:24 - 00:59:25:20
John Simmerman
And you're not alone when you're doing that. I mean, you're with everybody else who's also, you know, getting out, walking and biking and using transit even when the weather is terrible. Okay, Sam. So how how on earth could we possibly pay for all this? What is what? Walk us through this series of slides here.
00:59:25:21 - 00:59:52:03
Sam Johnson
Sure. So this one is actually saying that and this isn't in any way endorsed by the UN, I should say. But it's a proposal that we take advantage of this political permission slip of the UN decade and countries, many of which already do these national livable streets investment programs like in Australia, we call it an active transport fund.
00:59:52:06 - 01:00:34:08
Sam Johnson
It's an active transportation fund. In Canada, many countries have their own and states have their own mechanisms. But we could advertise these call for proposal each year on the UN Sustainable Transport Day to make a really explicit link that this is about contributing to this global, broader global vision. And if you go to the next slide, the idea would be, as I said earlier, to not go from 0 to 100 in one year, but year on year, slowly but surely, that that budget and that cities and towns apply to would get bigger in a predictable way.
01:00:34:08 - 01:00:59:01
Sam Johnson
And the things that would find that this is what I mentioned earlier as well. You could invest in the kinds of things that are already being invested in, but just the money would be available year on year. You wouldn't have the case where in many places that the funding is there this year, but you don't know if it's going to be there next year.
01:00:59:01 - 01:01:28:10
Sam Johnson
And you have a case where six times as many applicants apply for a program and and miss out. So it's pretty disheartening. And it's also a waste of time and effort. But with some forward planning and it's possible to do it in a better way, I should say on this slide, this is a bit out of date. It says there that temporary transformations and behavior change in financial incentives wouldn't be an eligible expenditure.
01:01:28:15 - 01:01:48:18
Sam Johnson
Actually, based on feedback I put this in as an eligible expense. So in the in the briefing note and the FAQ document that can be shared with your viewers, you'll see that that's all included. And if you go down to the next slide, we've been past those ones. But.
01:01:48:20 - 01:02:03:14
Sam Johnson
The idea was about who would apply to it. So I suggested this program should be a competitive grant program in in in some places.
01:02:03:16 - 01:02:37:16
Sam Johnson
The reason for that is to really make this something that's not imposed on local governments, and because in some places they won't want it. So you you make it that you can apply. You are co-funded. There's some level of co-funding requirement from the the city in town in order to be accepted, but based on the financial situation of the city and the the ability of the national government or state government to cover more of the cost, this could be adjusted.
01:02:37:20 - 01:03:12:22
Sam Johnson
And then this also could be adjusted. The funding co-funding requirement could be adjusted based on certain groups. So say if it's a particularly low income city or it has a lot of disadvantaged people, then maybe it could be a 100% co-funded by the national government to make it more equitable, because that's, of course, the issue with these competitive grant programs is that they tend to advantage more resourced, better organized, better funded local governments.
01:03:12:22 - 01:03:45:10
Sam Johnson
So we want to make sure that the money gets spent everywhere in that equitable way. But how would we pay for it? As I had in the earlier slides, it's not that there's a shortage of public funds available. People will always say there's a shortage of public funds. But really what that means is there's a lack of prioritization of funds because there and I think that the biggest source of funds that could be used is just reallocating road agency funding, capital budget funding.
01:03:45:10 - 01:04:19:09
Sam Johnson
So I'm not saying we touch maintenance funding for roads, because that I think is more politically difficult to to reallocate. But also it may not make sense from a overall asset management point of view, financial management point of view. We need to keep maintaining those roads and keep them safe. But this is about new spending, new spending. We don't need to add more capacity expansion in the vast majority of circumstances.
01:04:19:09 - 01:04:48:21
Sam Johnson
So more of that money should be spent on on this type of investment. And then of course, you can make the case to the Treasury that because this is going to have broader benefits to things they care about to the healthcare sector, etc., etc., you can get money. And then in the case of regional funds in the EU, which is a major funder of the European Commission, funds are an important co-finance here in those places.
01:04:48:21 - 01:05:27:06
Sam Johnson
And then in the case of lower middle income countries, there's the multilateral financial institutions like the world Bank, the Asian Development Bank, African Development Bank, Islamic Development Bank. All of these groups can be involved in co-funding these large scale. And this is what this slide just tries to say in a very stylized way, the role of a, an entity like the world Bank or others could provide money to a national program, which then cities and lower levels of government apply to.
01:05:27:06 - 01:05:50:10
Sam Johnson
And then that means that the money can be spent in many different cities and towns over a sustained period. And this is a much more attractive way of doing a project like this, because rather than us working with one city, we do it with many and less transaction costs for everyone.
01:05:50:13 - 01:06:23:19
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah, I love it, I love it. And again, you know, the first image that we started off with here, you know, today is again, this concept that livable cities and towns require livable streets. And again, streets are our largest single public space that we have. That's outside of the private realm. And so, you know, transforming them back into, as my coffee mug says, streets for people.
01:06:23:22 - 01:06:53:16
John Simmerman
Streets are for people, transforming them back into environments where it's safe and inviting for people to occupy is essential to enabling active mobility and active living and healthy, vibrant places where you know you noticed it when you were there in the Netherlands. It's just it's so amazing how vibrant the streetscape is when you have people existing outside of closed.
01:06:53:16 - 01:07:07:18
John Simmerman
Her medically sealed metal boxes and tinted windows, it's just it's, you know, you have to pinch yourself a little bit, you know, having spent a year there and then moved back home, you probably have reverse culture shock going on.
01:07:07:19 - 01:07:37:04
Sam Johnson
Yeah, it is remarkable, I think, that the Dutch cities and towns have the most livable design. They take a place which has, as I said, quite bad weather a lot of the year, but they still make it be a place where you want to be outside. You want to be connecting with your community. And I think that if they didn't have that kind of urban form and street design, the Netherlands wouldn't be one of the most livable places it would be.
01:07:37:07 - 01:08:07:28
Sam Johnson
Honestly, it wouldn't be the kind of place I would want to go on my holidays, but because it because of the bad weather, etc.. So yeah, it's something that can be done everywhere. And I notice that back in Australia I'm currently in quite a nice, beautiful town, but the street environment is still pretty hostile and so I'm not doing anywhere near as many active trips as what I would in a much less pretty place at a small town in the Netherlands.
01:08:08:00 - 01:08:10:13
Sam Johnson
So it can be done anywhere.
01:08:10:15 - 01:08:16:06
John Simmerman
So I'll have you address this Eindhoven, which is where you were, correct?
01:08:16:09 - 01:08:19:19
Sam Johnson
Yeah, I was down there a few days a week.
01:08:19:21 - 01:08:27:06
John Simmerman
So. So you're down there a few days a week. Where were you at when you weren't there?
01:08:27:08 - 01:08:45:06
Sam Johnson
I was living in Amsterdam, so in the eastern part of Amsterdam. And I would take the train bigger. Pardon? I would ride my bike to Amstel station and then get the train down and then and walk the edge. So I was living the bike train combination every day.
01:08:45:07 - 01:09:10:19
John Simmerman
I love it, I love it. The reason why I wanted to clarify this is because Eindhoven is probably one of the more car centric cities that has been trying to transform itself quite a bit in the over the last decade. My first visit to Eindhoven was back in 2015, and I know that they've gone through tremendous transformations over, over the past decade.
01:09:10:21 - 01:09:43:21
John Simmerman
And so to close this out, talk a little bit about that. You know, that experience that you had living in Amsterdam using the bike train combination, going into a city, you know, that is is working hard to become more active, mobility friendly, but still has some car orientation to it. And so I think that that's an interesting comparison there to in addition to the comparison that we just did, which was you going from the Netherlands back to Australia.
01:09:43:24 - 01:10:16:08
Sam Johnson
Yeah. So for viewers that may not be familiar with Eindhoven, it is historically it had a lot of car manufacturing and a lot of heavy industry. It's the headquarters of Philips globally and has still remains a place where a lot of industry and manufacturing and high tech thinking occurs. So it's quite a car oriented. And even the University of Idaho was the brains that kind of supported that industry.
01:10:16:15 - 01:10:42:13
Sam Johnson
But in the last few decades, the what that means is that the city has quite car oriented, built form. It's less dense, it has a ring road, it has much more traffic. It only has around 2020 or so percent mode share for bicycles, compared to its upwards of 50% in places in Amsterdam and some of the other Randstad cities.
01:10:42:15 - 01:11:21:14
Sam Johnson
And so it still has a way to go. But just coming back to that incremental, consistent vision and investment led approach, there have been slowly but surely building out the network and and now you have got great infrastructure everywhere and a commitment from the government to reduce vehicle kilometers, travel year on year. And actually in, in, at my university just before I left, admittedly, it was a master's student, but they did a vision for over time making more and more of within the ring roads car free.
01:11:21:14 - 01:11:49:22
Sam Johnson
And so they have this this vision of how to take away the ring roads entirely. So there's plenty of vision there. But every Dutch city is different. And in my final week in the Netherlands actually brought a lot of my world Bank colleagues from East Asia Pacific to the Netherlands and took them on a study tour to Utrecht, Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Haag, Delf.
01:11:49:22 - 01:12:15:03
Sam Johnson
And each city is is different, and they're still all on a journey of being more and more people first. And they're working with the urban form. They, they have. And I think that's inspiring, because when you go to a place like Amsterdam, it has a very distinct urban form. It's, it's it's quite unique compared to other places in the world.
01:12:15:03 - 01:12:42:02
Sam Johnson
But you can go to as you can go to Rotterdam or you can go to the hug and you can go to places like Iron Typhoon, which have a more car. I entered urban form and built built form, and it's much easier to imagine if you're a European, if you're a North American visitor, you could go there and be like, oh, this is my city and this is what my city could be like in 15, 20 years if we tried.
01:12:42:04 - 01:13:19:16
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. I even go so far as to say that, you know, if you're doing a study tour and you're trying to learn to take inspiration and learnings back with you to your home city, your home state, etc. and if you live in a car dependent area, which more likely you do, you know, stopping in and seeing what has transformed in in Rotterdam is probably going to give you more bang for the buck than going to, you know, the historic city center core of Amsterdam.
01:13:19:16 - 01:13:50:06
John Simmerman
There's just some great learnings to to absorb from a city which was destroyed during World War two, rebuilt based on the car, and then after a couple of decades, realized, oh, we made a mistake and then started to transform itself yet again into more people oriented place. So, folks, I will leave a link to my city tour on bike with a city staff member there in Rotterdam for you to take a look at.
01:13:50:07 - 01:13:58:24
John Simmerman
Sam, this has been so much fun. Final word from you. Anything that we did not yet discuss that you'd like to live the audience with?
01:13:58:25 - 01:14:32:03
Sam Johnson
Well, I would say right now, what's in our news every day is the crisis. And we should remind ourselves that the 1970s oil crisis was transformative in why the Netherlands is the way it is today, it can give the political momentum along with the stuff, the kingdom and other things, to make massive changes in the path dependency of how that country has developed.
01:14:32:03 - 01:14:54:24
Sam Johnson
And so I think we're also at a golden moment right now, and I hope that the Active Mobility and Livable Streets community take advantage of this and show that this fuel crisis is an opportunity to really push this Liverpool street to gender. And hopefully we start getting action this UN decade of sustainable transport.
01:14:54:24 - 01:15:22:28
John Simmerman
And as I like to say often here, you know, on the channel, start off by talking with your neighbors, you know, start having these conversations and start growing that movement and awareness and then start pushing on your politicians, your local representatives to make a difference, make a change and then grow that, grow that movement from there to, you know, the larger and larger, larger bodies of of governance.
01:15:22:28 - 01:15:47:02
John Simmerman
And yes, let's, you know, let's transform this. Let's get it all the way to the top of the federal and national governments to be. I think, committed to what Chuck Marone and I talked about in our recent live stream is stop investing in the expansion of highway miles. Mission accomplished. We've done that. Let's get serious about reallocating the monies.
01:15:47:03 - 01:15:54:27
John Simmerman
Maybe it's 10%. Maybe it's 20%, maybe more to active mobility. Sam Johnson, thank you so much for joining me on the Active Towns podcast.
01:15:54:27 - 01:15:56:28
Sam Johnson
Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure.
01:15:57:02 - 01:16:13:27
John Simmerman
Hey, everyone. Thank you so much for tuning in. I hope you enjoyed this conversation with Sam Johnson from the world Bank. And if you did, please give it a thumbs up. Leave a comment down below and share it with a friend. And if you haven't done so already, I'd be honored to have you subscribe to the channel. Just click on that subscription button down below and be sure to ring that notification bell.
01:16:13:27 - 01:16:31:28
John Simmerman
And again, if you're enjoying this content here on the Active Towns Channel, please consider supporting my efforts by becoming an Active Towns Ambassador. Again, super easy to do here on YouTube. Just click on the join button right down below. You can also leave a YouTube super. Thanks! You can navigate over to Active Towns or click on the support tab at the top of the page.
01:16:31:28 - 01:16:53:08
John Simmerman
And there are several different options, including becoming a Patreon supporter. Patrons do get early and every access to all my video content. You can also leave a donation for my nonprofit, or you can buy me a coffee again. Every little bit helps and is very much appreciated. And I should pause right now and say thank you to all of my Active Towns ambassadors.
01:16:53:08 - 01:17:09:12
John Simmerman
I simply could not produce this content without your support. Mahalo new. Aloha! Thank you very much. Again. Thank you so much for tuning in. I really do appreciate it. And until next time, this is John signing off by wishing you much activity, health and happiness. Cheers and aloha!