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Conversations about Creating a Culture of Activity: Profiling the people, places, programs, and policies that help to promote a culture of activity within our communities.
Note: This transcript was exported from the video version of this episode, and it has not been copyedited
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:31:27
Christian Ratering
If you keep focusing on something another person doesn't want you, you will find the breaks through each other. Actually, you have to talk about what the situation could be and what would be the benefits for the other person. Try to imagination to to imagine how it could be. And yeah, you must be. You must do it together. Must be part of it and not standing above it.
00:00:32:00 - 00:00:52:24
John Simmerman
Hey everyone, and welcome to the Active Towns Channel. My name is John Simmerman and that is Christian writing from the village of Renkum in the Province of Gelderland, down by Arnhem and Nijmegen, we are going to have a conversation about, a really important document, plan, if you will, a mobility plan that the village has pulled together the MVP.
00:00:53:01 - 00:01:10:01
John Simmerman
And then we'll also talk a little bit about some, some fascinating research that he has doing, along his PhD. But before we can do that, I just want to say, if you are enjoying this content here in the Active Towns Channel, please consider supporting my efforts by becoming an active Towns ambassador. Really helps out a great deal.
00:01:10:04 - 00:01:30:00
John Simmerman
Just click on the join button right here on YouTube, or head on over to Active Town Store, or click on the support tab at the top of the page. And there's several different options, including making a donation to the nonprofit, making a contribution for you, buy me a coffee or becoming a Patreon supporter. Patrons do get early and ad free access to all my video content.
00:01:30:03 - 00:01:37:01
John Simmerman
Okay, let's get right to it with Christian.
00:01:37:04 - 00:01:40:14
John Simmerman
Christian, thank you so much for joining me on the Active Towns podcast.
00:01:40:16 - 00:01:43:25
Christian Ratering
I well, so welcome. It's nice to be here.
00:01:43:27 - 00:01:50:24
John Simmerman
Well, I always love giving my guests just a really quick opportunity to introduce themselves. So who the heck is Christian?
00:01:50:26 - 00:02:09:17
Christian Ratering
Okay, my name is Christian. I'm, the senior policy maker for the party over income. And beside that, I'm, PhD for both university. I work for the municipality where I was born, so I'm very proud to do so.
00:02:09:19 - 00:02:42:04
John Simmerman
That's fantastic. Fantastic. And before we hit the record button, you and I were having a discussion about the definitions of various forms of municipality ease. And, we have determined that the our income is a village. Not a city per se. And, it on Google Maps here. If we try to figure out where you are relative to everything else in the, in the Netherlands, it's considered a part of the the eastern edge of, of the Netherlands, not too terribly far from the German border.
00:02:42:11 - 00:02:59:24
John Simmerman
And you're very close to Arnhem and Nijmegen, in all of that. And so, yeah, you're not a city in the official definition. You're you're a village, the municipality and all of that. And, how what's the population size of, of the village.
00:02:59:26 - 00:03:02:20
Christian Ratering
About 32,000 inhabitants.
00:03:02:22 - 00:03:16:01
John Simmerman
Fantastic. Fantastic. Yes. And it looks like you are very close to, the river. I believe it's one of the the rivers that, you know, is part of the Rhine system. Is that correct?
00:03:16:07 - 00:03:21:01
Christian Ratering
Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yes. It's a very important river.
00:03:21:03 - 00:03:44:03
John Simmerman
Yeah. It's a very important river. And and of course, you know, down in Nijmegen they have, also a very, very important tributary part of the river. And and again, that relationship to Germany and that relationship to the Rhine, valley there as well. So you've been invited on to the Active Towns podcast to discuss a couple of different things.
00:03:44:03 - 00:03:58:18
John Simmerman
And one is is really a really cool development that took place. And the reason, the whole reason I reached out to you, please share. Why why did I reach out to you?
00:03:58:21 - 00:04:39:06
Christian Ratering
Yes. Well, lots of people are very curious about your new mobile decision plan. Yeah, that has been, established by the city council. In your name. You name it. So we are very other than that, and, we are going in a completely different direction than, people are used to, for example, or departure is to get every child from the age of eight years old the right to, go to school by bike or by seat independently and to, if elderly, the opportunity to grow old in dignity in our community.
00:04:39:09 - 00:05:05:04
John Simmerman
Right. And so in my terminology and I've been talking about this for, for, you know, well over a decade, is that we want to try to transform our built environment of our cities, our towns, our villages, so that it is a safe and welcoming environment for literally all ages and all abilities, which really, you know, spans the the spectrum of, you know, everybody.
00:05:05:04 - 00:05:27:27
John Simmerman
We want this to be an inviting, environment and provide accessibility to everyone. And, and I'm really glad that you framed it the way that you did for talking about the children, but also talking about the elderly. And then later on, we're going to also talk about the all ages or all abilities side of things, too, because sometimes that gets forgotten.
00:05:27:29 - 00:05:54:14
John Simmerman
You know, sometimes it gets conflated with, with the elderly and say, oh, as you get older and older and older, maybe you lose some of your abilities. But it means more than that because there could be physical disabilities. There could be, other types of disabilities. As well. And your area of, of study is, of course, working in the areas of anxiety and some of the abilities that you need to take into account.
00:05:54:14 - 00:06:27:11
John Simmerman
And then I've had other discussions with folks with, neurodivergent types of situations, people who maybe have autism and other types of things and, and, and dealing with how the environment, works for them. But let's stick right here with the MVP and talk a little bit about this, the village and why you all have decided to to really lean into this and formalize this in the form of an actual plan and document.
00:06:27:13 - 00:07:03:16
Christian Ratering
Well, there are several reasons. For one is that in our region, there has to be built about 100,000 extra houses until the year 2040. It's meaning the region is, Arnhem Land Mason and Ada rationing. If you're taking a town that every house will result into at least 5 or 6 waste by car for a day, it's undoable to to ask from the mobility system to resolve this kind of amount of traffic.
00:07:03:23 - 00:07:04:16
Christian Ratering
It's a no.
00:07:04:16 - 00:07:29:05
John Simmerman
No. Wait a minute. You're sounding awfully pragmatic about this. It's like, what do you mean you can't put that many cars in there? In other words, what you're saying is the is your village is is understanding some of the things that our cities in North America couldn't seem to understand is that you just can't keep adding more cars to the road in the system.
00:07:29:07 - 00:07:55:20
Christian Ratering
No, because you also have other demands in space. I mean, it's not just that you have to park your car somewhere, but yeah, also having some issues with climate, meaning a lot of rain, a lot of heat. And we have to think. And also as well, how do we use our spatial dimensions to take answers to these questions?
00:07:55:23 - 00:08:17:10
John Simmerman
Yeah. Well, and not to mention what the you were saying earlier, too, is that you want to be able to ensure that people have the ability and the freedom, and it feels welcoming, to, you know, all ages and abilities to be able to get around by walking and biking. That doesn't happen very well if you just keep adding more cars.
00:08:17:12 - 00:08:27:17
Christian Ratering
No, exactly. Those, cars that are asking space. And in the last few years, cars also became larger and larger.
00:08:27:19 - 00:08:28:09
John Simmerman
Exactly.
00:08:28:12 - 00:08:41:20
Christian Ratering
Asking even more space. Sometimes people think a huge car means safety, but the safety for drive itself and not for the people around the car, especially young children.
00:08:41:22 - 00:09:02:24
John Simmerman
Yes. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And I think it's important to, to give some visuals as to what The Villages is like. And so you were gracious enough to send a few photos, along. I know that the city, in doing my research, is, is has been around a long time. This is a very historic city. It's been around for over a thousand years.
00:09:02:26 - 00:09:38:24
John Simmerman
And and you're, as you said, a proud, you know, resident of and someone who was born and raised there. Talk a little bit about the city and why you're so proud about the village and a call to the city again. But it really is a village. The municipality is is, you know, talk a little bit about how your reason why you're so excited about seeing this transformation to create a safer, more inviting environment for all ages and all abilities and I guess address the the 800 pound gorilla in the room.
00:09:38:24 - 00:09:51:16
John Simmerman
This, as we say in the terminology, because for some of us, we just assume that these villages are already idyllic and very walkable and bikeable.
00:09:51:18 - 00:10:13:11
Christian Ratering
Now, I love this village. I wasn't born in this village. I had spent many years here together with my grandparents. The city also has a strong relationship with the Second World War. I mean, every year we have, celebrations to to remember. Also the, the fallen soldiers.
00:10:13:14 - 00:10:25:16
John Simmerman
And, and and if I can interject, I mean, that strong relationship with a is also, associated with your neighbors, you know, down the way, in life in Michigan as well.
00:10:25:20 - 00:10:58:06
Christian Ratering
Yeah. And and Arnhem as well. In for example, in Arnhem you have a place it's called Halo writers plane. It's like, a plaza. But the name, like Irish comes from the soldiers who were located here. And one of those soldiers was my grandfather. So for me, it's very strong connection. Yes. So for sure. And, also make it's, as a kid, I was many times here because of my grandparents.
00:10:58:06 - 00:11:24:09
Christian Ratering
They brought me there, and, it's. And the people are very nice, very warm. And the, the nature is wonderful. You have great patience and and also, you know, this make you feel very well connected with Arnhem and, Yeah, for us as a strong connection also with Arnhem. That's the big city.
00:11:24:11 - 00:11:26:24
John Simmerman
The big city. Yeah.
00:11:26:26 - 00:11:55:16
Christian Ratering
And yeah. And there's also a reason for these are things such, mobility plan because we know what the elements are from ahead of us, from the big city. And also we have to be prepared to, to, to deal with that loss. If we don't take measurements, the amount of cars will rise. And, the livability of our municipality will become less and less.
00:11:55:18 - 00:12:11:00
John Simmerman
Yeah. So here's here's an off topic, question for you. You know, about, you know, Arnhem and also Nijmegen, in that region. Are you a football fan? Do you do you follow any of the teams in the region there?
00:12:11:03 - 00:12:13:20
Christian Ratering
I love football, but they're not located here.
00:12:13:23 - 00:12:24:26
John Simmerman
They're not located there. Okay. It's not that one. Very good, because I know that there's quite a rivalry between the the the the the Arnhem. Yeah. You know, teams in the. Yeah.
00:12:24:28 - 00:12:37:09
Christian Ratering
It used to be between Arnhem and name is. Yes of course, but yeah, I really you might think that's childish. Yeah. Yeah. Everyone should enjoy the game. Yeah.
00:12:37:09 - 00:12:58:08
John Simmerman
Exactly, exactly. And and I was, I was there last summer when the Dutch were playing in the world or the euro, you know, the tournament. So I was able to be swept up in all of the excitement and watching all of the international games. And so that was a great all the matches. That was great. And it was wonderful.
00:12:58:08 - 00:13:11:21
John Simmerman
And and the Dutch actually the, the Dutch team made it quite far, relatively speaking, in that tournament. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So we're we're paused on a photo here. Is this your bike in in frame in the.
00:13:11:25 - 00:13:15:24
Christian Ratering
No, no, no, no, not someone else, but I, I, I really like that.
00:13:15:28 - 00:13:42:19
John Simmerman
To see that, it's a nice pop of color, you know, you've got that nice little, red bike. It looks it looks like it's actually an electric assist bike. And we can talk a little bit about, that from an empowerment perspective because we are seeing worldwide now that especially for the elderly, one of the things that's keeping them riding is the ability to feel like they've got a little bit of an electric assist to be able to do that.
00:13:42:21 - 00:13:59:01
John Simmerman
But yeah. So you frame this, we we've got these beautiful images of, of the village. It's a delightful place to be from. And and so you've been working for the municipality? For how long? How long have you been working.
00:13:59:01 - 00:14:02:18
Christian Ratering
For the Nice Valley? A little bit more than a year now.
00:14:02:21 - 00:14:30:02
John Simmerman
Okay, fantastic. So a little bit more than a year. You're working on your PhD? We talked a little bit about that. And here's that image again of the report or the MVP. Set this up a little bit more. Dive a little deeper into what we're going to be, you know, talking about in terms of how the village is going to achieve what it wants to achieve in terms of being providing mobility, accessibility for all ages and all abilities.
00:14:30:04 - 00:15:06:05
Christian Ratering
Yeah. Actually, we would like to connect a lot with our inhabitants to do things together. We are using our, transition strategy because we have to learn doing things different from the time before. We have in the Netherlands a lot of guidelines, national guidelines. But those most of those guidelines were developed based on a car dominated, period of mobility planning.
00:15:06:05 - 00:15:25:26
Christian Ratering
And now we are changing most municipalities. They are thinking to, to change to start first with pedestrians and cyclists and public transports and so on. So this also means she has to come up with a different view on where to start from.
00:15:25:28 - 00:15:53:05
John Simmerman
Yeah. And in frame here, this is part of the, the document that was prepared, for the municipality, we see a visually impaired person walking with her guide dog and also, her walking cane as well, navigating around. So, again, you mentioned it earlier. It's like it should be a welcoming environment for the youngest as well as the oldest and the everyone in between.
00:15:53:05 - 00:15:57:21
John Simmerman
And regardless of their foreign abilities at the moment.
00:15:57:23 - 00:16:09:18
Christian Ratering
Yes, it's, it needs to be in the environment for everyone, regardless of the impairment. Yeah, I would suggest not to use the word disability, but. Yeah.
00:16:09:18 - 00:16:31:15
John Simmerman
Yeah, exactly. It can be. It can be like the word you use, which is an impairment. That. Yes, and I do when I, when I talk about abilities, I do like to say that, you know, we are all on a continuum of, varying stages of ability or disabilities, depending on where we're at, because, you know, we could be completely fine.
00:16:31:16 - 00:17:02:19
John Simmerman
In fact, I'll I'll tell you a side story. Do you know Melissa Bartlett? Do you by chance know Melissa? Yes. Yeah. So. So Melissa is. She's, recently gone out on her own, and and she has her own firm now, and she's, she's she's talking, you know, working a lot, globally. But one of the things that she likes to, remind us is, even when we're quote unquote able bodied, a simple misstep could cause, a, a disability of sorts.
00:17:02:19 - 00:17:29:25
John Simmerman
And, and she had a situation where I think she hurt her knee or her or leg or something like that, and, and, you know, couldn't have the same level of getting around. And so she experienced what it was like to have to get some assistance from Chris as well as ride in a cargo bike a little bit. And, and so it's a good reminder for us all that we're all on this continuum of, of varying stages.
00:17:29:28 - 00:17:36:07
Christian Ratering
Yes, yes, it's very important to have that in mind. And it's not always feasible.
00:17:36:09 - 00:18:09:28
John Simmerman
Right, exactly. Yeah. We're going to talk a little bit more about that in just a little bit. I'm honed in on this particular photograph because this is in, in the, in the, the documents that you've prepared. And it brings up this concept that I've talked about a lot on the Active Towns channel, which is that these cities are our villages, our towns, our communities should truly be an environment where it empowers kids to to be able to thrive and be able to get around and do things.
00:18:10:00 - 00:18:38:09
John Simmerman
My good friend Tim Gill from, from London, you know, talks about how, you know, these spaces have really become constrained for children. It's like they didn't have the amount of range that they used to have. And we need to reconfigure our communities so that, you know, kids can. He calls it an urban playground is that our our communities should be welcoming to kids.
00:18:38:12 - 00:18:47:03
John Simmerman
So my my question for you is how realistic is that in a world that now accommodates cars over people?
00:18:47:05 - 00:19:08:16
Christian Ratering
Actually, we have a lot of support. So I think it's realistic. I think the majority, they would like to see things different. It's actually the group of car owners who are really, holding strong to what they possess right now. It's actually a small group, but they have a loud voice.
00:19:08:19 - 00:19:45:27
John Simmerman
I'm glad you said it that way too, because we see this globally. This is this is something. I don't know if you know this, but this is something that I deal with, whether I'm talking with folks in Europe through North America, Down Under in Australia and New Zealand, even in Africa. It's this is a common theme is that, you know, those voices that are, arguing against creating streets for people and communities that, you know, welcome people and are people oriented and embrace all ages and abilities.
00:19:45:29 - 00:20:07:18
John Simmerman
They're not really the majority, but they're loud voices. And sometimes they're powerful voices because sometimes they they are very powerful entities. Walk us through this is a this is an interesting diagram, because I think it gets to the point that you're talking about and the reason why you're, you know, optimistic that things can change.
00:20:07:20 - 00:20:40:03
Christian Ratering
I have actually these are examples that things can change especially, well, your season in Romania. I was in the town a city, actually. It's a big city. They really realize this, ambition. And it's really wonderful to walk freely on the streets, to go to stores where you want without, being bothered by passing cars. It that they really did a great job to bring the welcome back into the city.
00:20:40:06 - 00:20:46:12
Christian Ratering
Right. And, I live near the place for almost 20 years.
00:20:46:15 - 00:20:47:22
John Simmerman
Oh, wow. Okay.
00:20:47:24 - 00:20:55:06
Christian Ratering
Yeah. I saw the city really developing in a direction of more, giving more space to pedestrians and cyclists.
00:20:55:11 - 00:21:01:26
John Simmerman
I know you said you live near. Near there. Were you in a nearby village or. Yes.
00:21:01:28 - 00:21:02:19
Christian Ratering
Yes.
00:21:02:21 - 00:21:04:09
John Simmerman
Which one is.
00:21:04:11 - 00:21:15:17
Christian Ratering
New? Same. It's in the south of, cities. Okay. And, yeah, I, I used to work there for almost 19, 20 years.
00:21:15:19 - 00:22:01:27
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. Fantastic. Yeah. I and went during my visit last summer I was in Utrecht, central area, for three weeks. And so that's where I was based out of and then doing trips via rail all around Europe and, and and visiting. So that's fantastic. I'm really glad that you you mentioned, you know, and and use these examples because these are examples that really exemplify that what we did as humans is we took our villages are habitat, are human habitats that for thousands of years were really oriented around people, around the idea that, you know, you can get to or your meaningful destinations by walking.
00:22:02:00 - 00:22:30:29
John Simmerman
And then the bicycle came along and then by biking. But when the automobile came around and we leaned into modernity and like, we need to be able to motor everywhere, we did silly things like what you see in these photos here, which is we we leaned in to transforming like silly enough, like transforming what was a beautiful waterway into a motorway and then realized, oh, that wasn't such a good idea.
00:22:30:29 - 00:23:06:07
John Simmerman
And so we transform it back into the example of in Amsterdam. Here is where we see these old historic streets, you know, were converted into traffic sewers, automobile sewers, where you're trying to cram as many automobiles through and in some cases, even in Amsterdam, there's the famous cases of when they started to tear down a lot of historic older buildings and, to make room for more cars, only to put a stop to that as well and say, no, no, no, no, no, this isn't the right way to go.
00:23:06:09 - 00:23:45:26
John Simmerman
You don't have photos here of Rotterdam, but Rotterdam's another great example of where they rebuilt after World War two. They rebuilt with the automobile in mind. Fast forward a few decades. Same thing. They realize, oh, auto centricity. Becoming auto dependent is not the right way to create a vibrant, healthy community. So I guess my whole point of of pointing this out is that one of the things that I love about the Dutch is you all like, look at things and say, just because it's this set in stone, just because we've built it in asphalt doesn't mean we can't change it.
00:23:45:26 - 00:23:48:16
John Simmerman
If it was the wrong thing.
00:23:48:18 - 00:23:51:01
Christian Ratering
Exactly, exactly.
00:23:51:03 - 00:23:53:24
John Simmerman
Now this cost money.
00:23:53:26 - 00:23:55:01
Christian Ratering
It cost money.
00:23:55:03 - 00:24:00:02
John Simmerman
How do you come up with the money to actually do this?
00:24:00:04 - 00:24:06:09
Christian Ratering
I think it's a very rich set. Maybe that's. I shouldn't say that.
00:24:06:11 - 00:24:15:23
John Simmerman
No. Oh. That's okay. I've had I've had their city staff on. I think they would agree that they have the resources to correct their mistakes. When the mistakes are, you need to have.
00:24:15:26 - 00:24:48:16
Christian Ratering
A check that you need the extra resources. And that's a big issue at this moment. Also, a lot of municipalities say we're having some difficulties in the next year of the national government, Eric, are cutting the, the budgets. Oh, wow. Yeah. So that's something. But it can also be an opportunity. I spoke with, a professor who is, who teaches in Amsterdam, and he told me that Amsterdam could make some changes because they didn't have enough budget.
00:24:48:18 - 00:24:55:01
Christian Ratering
And that's, there's an opportunity to develop more cycling paths. And.
00:24:55:03 - 00:25:26:01
John Simmerman
I'm really glad that you framed it that way, because one of the things that I try to emphasize a lot is that when people complain and say, oh, our pockets are empty, we don't have the money to to create more walking and biking infrastructure and environment. I say, hold on, stop, because it's far cheaper and far less expensive to create people oriented places than car oriented places, and somehow they magically come up with money to do motorway expansions.
00:25:26:03 - 00:25:40:24
John Simmerman
And so yeah, I'm glad that you framed it that way, and I'm glad that they framed it that way. Is that the whole reason why we're leaning in towards more walkable and bikeable environment is there's a better return on investment, and it's nowhere near as expensive?
00:25:40:26 - 00:25:55:23
Christian Ratering
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, also, you must think that, one municipality can't do that on its own. They have to work together with the people. You have to do it together.
00:25:55:25 - 00:25:56:14
John Simmerman
Right?
00:25:56:14 - 00:26:13:03
Christian Ratering
And often I see people think, oh, it's them. The citizens. Citizens. And it's us, the government. But it should be us. We do it together. And that's also something we put in our mobility mobility plan.
00:26:13:06 - 00:26:14:02
John Simmerman
Right.
00:26:14:04 - 00:26:20:17
Christian Ratering
We try to use experiments and to get citizens answer.
00:26:20:20 - 00:26:50:26
John Simmerman
Yes. Yes, that's a really good point to in in the Dutch famously have, a history of coming together to solve problems is very much a part of your DNA of, of, you know, of like, commune engaging and and talking about and coming up with solutions. The I, the terminology escapes me. There's something like the polder concept and and really coming to.
00:26:51:03 - 00:26:52:09
John Simmerman
Yes. Yes.
00:26:52:12 - 00:26:54:00
Christian Ratering
Yeah. Yeah.
00:26:54:02 - 00:27:23:09
John Simmerman
So that's a and and so you're, you're working for the municipality or helping pull together this plan and put this plan forward. And you're engaging community members. I suspect that there's oftentimes divergent, you know, points of view and saying, well, no, I drive a car. I like to drive a car. I want to drive a car as fast as possible.
00:27:23:12 - 00:27:27:24
John Simmerman
Why are you doing this to me?
00:27:27:27 - 00:27:30:20
Christian Ratering
No, no. Yeah.
00:27:30:22 - 00:27:56:18
John Simmerman
So what is that process like? I mean, I know what it Dave. It's sort of it devolves in many other cities around the world. It divert, you know, devolves into shouting matches and saying you're you're hindering my right so that you can make it easy for kids to walk and bike to school or the elderly to, to get to their, their, their social activities.
00:27:56:18 - 00:27:58:19
John Simmerman
How dare you?
00:27:58:22 - 00:28:29:29
Christian Ratering
Yeah, yeah, that's really an issue. But if you keep focusing on something another person doesn't want, you, you'll never find that bridge to each other. Actually, you have to talk about what the situation could become and what would be the benefit for the other person. Try to imagination, to to imagine how it could be. And yeah, you must be you must do it together.
00:28:30:04 - 00:28:33:08
Christian Ratering
You must be part of it. Not standing above it.
00:28:33:15 - 00:28:49:10
John Simmerman
Yeah. I'm going to pull up, a graph from the document here, and I'll have you help me out, because my Dutch is not so, so, so very good right now. What is this figure outlining and and what are you trying to communicate with us?
00:28:49:13 - 00:29:14:26
Christian Ratering
And, these are the amount of commuters between us so they can let me know. Also, they can edit and also make and also make so that we know how many people are traveling from their place of origin to our, to meet to our, municipality. And the other one is our new, and it gives us some insights.
00:29:14:26 - 00:29:19:21
Christian Ratering
What the potential is for, regional city gets narrower.
00:29:19:24 - 00:29:38:17
John Simmerman
And that's a really good point, too, because as a village, a not so huge village, but as you mentioned, the need to be able to build more housing. And we're seeing that, you know, throughout that whole region of Arnhem and also in neighboring and, that's that's happening is you can't just think of yourself as this little isolated island.
00:29:38:17 - 00:30:03:28
John Simmerman
It has to be in the context that you have these, you know, these commutes happening. And one of the things that I love about, you know, the the area there in the Netherlands is that there there's these wonderful, you know, very comfortable pathways of these pods and whatnot, you know, that are able to you're able to ride, you know, the whatever it is.
00:30:03:28 - 00:30:07:15
John Simmerman
How, how many kilometers is it from the village to Arnhem.
00:30:07:17 - 00:30:10:26
Christian Ratering
How many flowers? I say.
00:30:10:29 - 00:30:13:09
John Simmerman
Yeah, we made it.
00:30:13:12 - 00:30:13:27
Christian Ratering
Yes.
00:30:13:29 - 00:30:17:29
John Simmerman
That's that's right. Yeah. That's rideable. Yeah.
00:30:18:01 - 00:30:36:23
Christian Ratering
Yeah. No, no it's rideable. You know, the, the only thing is, you know, area there are some hills you can have a normal day. It can be a challenge some people like to challenge. But when you have e-bikes it's very easy to do.
00:30:36:29 - 00:31:01:01
John Simmerman
I think that and I'm glad that you mention that too because I travel internationally with my Brompton. And so I'm able to fold it up, put it on the train, you know, take it with me immediately, get off and ride to my destination, film all around the area. And and people ask me is, is it difficult, is it hard to be able to ride up hills?
00:31:01:01 - 00:31:27:01
John Simmerman
And I'm like, oh no, no, no, it, it's, it's quite because you have the gearing system. And so since I am used to riding in very, very steep environments like in the Rocky Mountains and other places, the gears make all the difference. I'm, I'm 60 years old, so I, you know, there may be a day when I need a little bit of an electric assist on that Brompton, but right now I can still get around with with it just as it is.
00:31:27:03 - 00:31:49:17
John Simmerman
Before we move on to talking about your, your research that you're working on and the thing that we hinted on of, of talking about the, you know, the, the ability side of all ages and abilities. Is there anything else that you wanted to to cover about the MVP and, and what you all are striving to want to see?
00:31:49:19 - 00:31:52:16
John Simmerman
What will success look like in the future for you?
00:31:52:22 - 00:32:23:27
Christian Ratering
Yeah. If, if we succeed, then, every child from ages eight years old will have the right to cycle independently or walk independently from and to school. That would be, the best result, I think, it's not only important for, it's it's very important for the child, not only for moving around independently, but also for its, cognitive potential.
00:32:24:00 - 00:32:39:20
Christian Ratering
You know, there's this body of research on this topic and shows that children will, do much, much better in school when they are able to do things independently.
00:32:39:22 - 00:33:05:05
John Simmerman
Yeah, I pulled up the, the stomp figure, which is here and, and we can kind of get a sense as to what this is, is all about. Again, not to not to put you on the spot and stereotype, but oftentimes many people's impressions from around the globe is that. Wait a minute, I thought the Dutch already have this all figured out.
00:33:05:05 - 00:33:11:04
John Simmerman
I thought this was a utopia. I thought the kids were able to get everywhere they needed to get to.
00:33:11:06 - 00:33:36:26
Christian Ratering
Yeah, when I was a kid. Yes. Yeah, yeah, I know, I but us, it depends on the city. I grew up in an area where I could walk to school without meeting my parents or eaten by bikes and, in my opinion, I thought it was great. It didn't depend on anyone. I could do things on my own and help me to, to develop.
00:33:36:28 - 00:33:56:16
John Simmerman
Well, I think this is a good this is a good part for, for us to to sort of pivot and talk a little bit about, the research. So we've alluded to it a couple of times. You're working on your PhD, you've been doing that for, you know, since 2020. Share with the audience what is it you're working on and why are you so passionate about, that topic?
00:33:56:23 - 00:34:37:15
Christian Ratering
Yeah, I'm doing research about, people having experiencing anxiety disorder and, moving around to that in the, our mobility system. Actually, I'm married to a lot. So together we, we discussed this topic before, and she, she helped actually, she inspired me to, to do this research because she told me that there are clients that would like to go to their appointment to get their treatment, but when they travel to the place, something happens and they don't arrive, so they can't get better.
00:34:37:15 - 00:35:02:21
Christian Ratering
I so, that impressed me a lot. And it's also not that these are people. It's really a serious mental illness. These are just following people. It can be my neighbor. It can be my my parents, my grandfather, who knows. And it can happen from one day to the other, just suddenly without any indication that this would happen.
00:35:02:23 - 00:35:27:22
Christian Ratering
So, it made me realize that our mobility system is not as just as it should be. And also, in the time I worked for a different municipal team and they had a tunnel, which was only to be used for pedestrians and cyclists, and I did the research on cycling in the, in the, in the city town.
00:35:27:25 - 00:35:51:13
Christian Ratering
And I discovered that many people, they didn't want to use that tunnel. So I started digging what is going on in this area. So and then, then I discovered that most people they prefer to to cycle three kilometers extra instead of using the tunnel. And mostly it was related to fear anxiety.
00:35:51:16 - 00:36:17:18
John Simmerman
Yeah. Now I don't want to make too many assumptions about that, but does it fall back to some of the things that we know about making tunnels and underpasses more inviting to everyone? Or, you know, in terms of like lighting and can you see daylight through the other end and is it beautiful or is there some, you know, is there brightness, is there colors?
00:36:17:18 - 00:36:20:10
John Simmerman
You know, is it along those lines?
00:36:20:12 - 00:36:28:01
Christian Ratering
I think, and that's maybe one of the outcomes. I'm still developing a critical framework.
00:36:28:04 - 00:36:28:27
John Simmerman
Right.
00:36:29:00 - 00:36:55:28
Christian Ratering
So how to study this subject. Because it's totally new. We have tried we we have tried to look for literature on this topic. There isn't any. So we are really like pioneers. There isn't even a theoretical framework how to study this topic. So that's what I'm working at this at at this moment to get such, framework. But yeah, the impact is huge.
00:36:56:01 - 00:37:10:06
Christian Ratering
I mean, there are a lot of people they have this experience and they, they relocated their, place of lesson to, to be closer to their job and not to need to drive on the highway, for example.
00:37:10:08 - 00:37:37:02
John Simmerman
Right. Yeah. Talk about an anxiety inducing activity, hurling yourself through space in a metal box on wheels at speeds that can kill yourself and other people. That's pretty anxiety inducing. Yeah. Okay, so we're looking at an image. This is still from the, the, the, the document that you all have put together is the plan that you all have put together.
00:37:37:07 - 00:38:07:16
John Simmerman
It's a wonderful image that encapsulates, again, all ages and all abilities from your perspective and what little, advances you have been able to make within studying people who are suffering from anxiety. Is this is this an environment? Is is walking environment a place to, you know, gets get you easily by walking to a meaningful destination? Does this help or does this have challenges too?
00:38:07:24 - 00:38:32:05
Christian Ratering
Yeah. It helps. It helps a lot. I mean, most people do things right. The shortest they are able to walk also depends on the severity to what distance. But when I refer to our mobility division plan, which is for everyone, we know that our population is growing old and not everyone will be able to to cycle or to drive by car.
00:38:32:05 - 00:38:41:12
Christian Ratering
So we'll have to take into account which, walking itineraries are beneficial for them.
00:38:41:14 - 00:39:09:11
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah, I have on screen now, a shot of, of some mobility tricks and, I'm not sure if these or any of these are the, the van Ram brand, but, I've profiled this type of mobility system as well. The ability to be on a trike where you can be sitting next to another person, a mobility device.
00:39:09:13 - 00:39:58:15
John Simmerman
I could also see that that could be a situation where when somebody is suffering from intense anxiety disorder and challenges with that, they could be with their partner and be able to sit in more side by side and be able to again get fresh air, get some exercise, be be able to get to meaningful destinations. So sometimes it's also making sure that we create a mobility system that also starts to, accommodate and in and really welcome, wider footprint types of devices like this in other words, making sure that when we're building out our mobility systems within our communities that we're we're looking at our, our our cycle paths and, and our routes and
00:39:58:15 - 00:40:33:05
John Simmerman
making sure that they can accommodate, some of our wider vehicles such as this. And also, there was an image in your report, too, of, a cargo bike, you know, for deliveries and everything. So that's one of the things that I'm also seeing in the Netherlands is you all are realizing that, oh, we may need to make our cycle paths a little wider because we're seeing, you know, more use and also use of more of wider vehicles, including vehicles that could accommodate somebody, with, with challenges.
00:40:33:08 - 00:40:42:22
Christian Ratering
Yeah, yeah. And that, ask also from us through most the barriers which are really in the middle of the cycle path.
00:40:42:25 - 00:41:07:24
John Simmerman
Exactly. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's funny, whenever I do an image here from North America and we have our, our protected bike lanes and separated facilities and, we have an awful unfortunate situation where, when that gets built, the motor vehicle drivers are like, oh, look, I don't want to be in my lane. I want to take their lane.
00:41:07:24 - 00:41:25:11
John Simmerman
And so they drive down them. And of course, that makes it very dangerous. And so what we have to do is we have to put a bollard in the middle. And I know that you all have done that in past decades, but I know that there's a process, a move to try to remove those bollards because they're they can be very dangerous for folks.
00:41:25:14 - 00:41:37:25
John Simmerman
But I do reinforce for the Dutch audience that, yeah, we still have to put them in because the driver, if you don't, the drivers will claim it as their own space and either park in there or drive down it.
00:41:37:28 - 00:42:00:18
Christian Ratering
Yeah, yeah, we have plenty of locations as well, but, depends what you would like to choose for. Also, as a government, what do you want to choose? Do you take the measurements to avoid? Cars are driving over the cycle path, or do you want to be an ambassador for cycling?
00:42:00:20 - 00:42:25:06
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah, this is fascinating. I really look forward to coming to visit you. I'm not sure when that's going to happen. I'm not coming this year. My travel plans this year or to to use the train and get around North America. Versus last year, I was on the train with my Brompton getting around Europe. But I do look forward to to visiting you at one day, you know, one day soon.
00:42:25:06 - 00:42:40:16
John Simmerman
And seeing how this is developing, is there anything that we haven't discussed yet that you want to make sure to leave the audience with, either from the stuff we've talked about from municipality side or the research that you're working on?
00:42:40:19 - 00:42:58:07
Christian Ratering
No, I don't I don't think so. I think we've discussed a lot and people want to learn more. They can read the the article, and they also can look at the side of the urban cycling, estimate the stats in English. And if they ask questions as far as they can ask me.
00:42:58:07 - 00:43:21:26
John Simmerman
Yeah, that's fantastic. And, we'll close this out with this beautiful, image that is from, the, the, the document that the plan that you all have put together and really, you know, again, kind of encapsulating the the spirit that we're talking about is we're trying to create an environment where accessibility is, is open for all ages and all abilities.
00:43:21:28 - 00:43:26:18
John Simmerman
Christian. This has been such a joy and pleasure having you on. Thank you so very much.
00:43:26:21 - 00:43:29:18
Christian Ratering
You're welcome. Wonderful. Yes. Thank you.
00:43:29:21 - 00:43:44:26
John Simmerman
Hey, thank you all so much for tuning in. I hope you enjoyed this episode with Christian. If you did, please hit give it a thumbs up. Leave a comment down below and share it with a friend. And if you haven't done so already, I'd be honored to have you subscribe to the channel. Just click on the subscription button down below and ring that notification bell.
00:43:44:29 - 00:44:07:22
John Simmerman
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00:44:07:24 - 00:44:27:05
John Simmerman
You can buy me a coffee as well as you can become a Patreon support. Patrons do get early and and free access to all my video content, and a every little bit helps in this. So much appreciated. Again, thank you so much for tuning in. And until next time, this is John signing off by wishing you much activity, health and happiness.
00:44:27:12 - 00:44:44:27
John Simmerman
Cheers! And again, just want to send a huge thank you to all my Active Towns Ambassadors supporting your channel financially via YouTube. Memberships YouTube super thanks. As well as making contributions to the nonprofit and joining my Patreon. Every little bit adds up and is very much appreciated. Thank you all so much!