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In this episode of the Men of Faith Podcast, Brandon Miller shares the story of how the early years of his marriage nearly went off the rails and the lessons he learned that changed everything. Caleb and Brandon discuss friendship in marriage, emotional connection, and how spiritual leadership shapes a healthy relationship.
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- (00:00) - Open: “Don’t Listen to Your Wife”
- (00:23) - Welcome Back to Men of Faith
- (01:59) - Getting Married at 18
- (03:07) - The Mistakes That Nearly Ruined the Marriage
- (04:31) - Friendship Is the Foundation
- (07:03) - Being Each Other’s First Call
- (09:17) - Weekly Rhythms That Keep Marriage Healthy
- (12:13) - Emotional Connection vs Physical Intimacy
- (15:24) - Supporting Each Other When Life Gets Hard
- (18:27) - Stop Trying to Fix Everything
- (22:00) - Why Men Need Other Trusted Friends
- (26:01) - Spiritual Leadership in Marriage
- (30:10) - The Power of Joy and Gratitude
Creators and Guests
Host
Brandon Miller
Brandon Miller is the Co-Founder and Chairman of the Board at 34 Strong, where he guides the long-term strategy, vision and innovation across the organization and its family of brands. As the founding CEO for 12 years, Brandon shaped 34 Strong from a bold idea into a nationally recognized leader in strengths-based development and workplace culture transformation.
Host
Caleb Cole
Caleb, a Sacramento native, grew up in a pastor’s home and is a third generation minister. At the age of 12, after one of his grandfather’s sermons, he felt a call from God to be a pastor. He consistently pursued that call throughout high school and college. Caleb attended Central Bible College in Springfield, MO where he earned a B.A. in Biblical Studies and went on to the Assemblies of God Theological Seminary where he earned an M.A. in Theological Studies.
What is Men of Faith?
Men of Faith is a Christian podcast dedicated to calling men up and not out.
Hosted by Caleb Cole, each episode equips men to follow Jesus with conviction, character, and consistency—at home, at work, and in every season of life. Through honest conversations and practical biblical wisdom, Men of Faith tackles real issues like leadership, fatherhood, identity, marriage, discipline, spiritual growth, and navigating culture without compromise. This is a podcast for men who want more than inspiration—they want transformation.
00;00;00;00 - 00;00;22;28
Brandon Miller
Don't listen to your wife. Practice things that, go against everything that she would ask you to do. Be aggressive. Be engaging in a way that, just diminishes her opinion. And so being young, raw, immature, selfish. Yeah. None of these worked at all for a great experience for either one of us.
00;00;23;00 - 00;00;41;21
Caleb Cole
You're listening to men of Faith, the podcast dedicated to calling men up and not out. Join me as we live a life dedicated to our God.
00;00;41;24 - 00;00;52;14
Caleb Cole
All right. Welcome back to the men of Faith podcast. I'm your host, Caleb Cole, and I am here with my co-host, Brandon Miller. It's just me and you today, bro. Let's do this.
00;00;52;14 - 00;00;53;15
Brandon Miller
Let's go.
00;00;53;17 - 00;01;07;22
Caleb Cole
We've been on a little bit of a hiatus. Took a few weeks off. We kicked off season three, but now we're fully jumping in. You can count on consistent episodes every other week, starting now. And, Brandon, what's going on with you, man? You know?
00;01;07;22 - 00;01;16;09
Brandon Miller
Well, yeah, it's good to be back. Took a little break there for part of season two and, for some great content. Come out and happy to be back in the chair with you.
00;01;16;11 - 00;01;40;22
Caleb Cole
Yeah, we're going to have a great conversation today and a lot of great episodes and topics coming up too. So be sure to stay tuned in. But today, Brandon, I wanted to jump in and talk a little bit about marriage. We're coming out of February, the love month. As a church, we've actually been in a relationship series, and, we thought it'd be great, man, to just talk about how we can better serve our wives and other men out there.
00;01;40;22 - 00;01;59;04
Caleb Cole
Men of faith, the MLS. We've missed you. But this is a great topic, and one that I think we all could get better at. I know I'm still constantly improving at it, and so we want to dive in. Like, how can we, as husbands serve our wives better? And so I think that we're gonna have a great conversation today.
00;01;59;04 - 00;02;09;26
Caleb Cole
Brandon, I know you have a little more experience in this than me. So I've been married almost 18 years and Brandon is, at almost 33, a little more experience. That's right. You started young.
00;02;10;01 - 00;02;11;10
Brandon Miller
Real young.
00;02;11;12 - 00;02;18;25
Caleb Cole
So tell him a little bit about your story, maybe as we kick this off. Because you did get married young. Yeah. And so you've been serving your wife for a long time.
00;02;18;25 - 00;02;21;29
Brandon Miller
18 and 17 and, you know, started.
00;02;22;02 - 00;02;23;04
Caleb Cole
You were 18.
00;02;23;04 - 00;02;24;05
Brandon Miller
She was 17 when.
00;02;24;05 - 00;02;24;13
Caleb Cole
You got.
00;02;24;13 - 00;02;38;29
Brandon Miller
Married. Yep. Yeah. So technically, according to my friends in India, it was, they were doing the talk once and talking about getting married that young. And they said, you know, according to Indian law, you, had a child bride. I said, please don't ever say that. Wow. Yeah, I know, I said, we were.
00;02;39;01 - 00;02;39;28
Caleb Cole
A few months or.
00;02;39;28 - 00;03;06;28
Brandon Miller
Nine months apart. So you're good. 18 and 17. And, had our first child three months after getting married. So we we jumped the starter gun by a bit there. And, I would say the first four years of marriage, I learned a lot of what not to do to stay married. That was that was my that was my experience out of the gate in marriage was what not to do, which was a fast way to undo a marriage is don't listen to your wife.
00;03;07;00 - 00;03;29;21
Brandon Miller
Practice things that, go against everything that she would ask you to do. Be aggressive. Be engaging in a way that, just diminishes her opinion. And so being young, raw, immature, selfish. Yeah. None of these worked at all for a great experience for either one of us. And so it was at 22 years old.
00;03;29;21 - 00;03;48;02
Brandon Miller
And really, this was the turn for some of you that are growing in your walk with God. That was a transition time for me in life, where I really carefully understood to the degree that I love my wife and I cherish her and take care of her. It is almost one for one how I'm going to walk with God.
00;03;48;03 - 00;04;08;25
Brandon Miller
Like though, that metric matters so much side by side as I came to understand it, that if I'm not taking care of the the number one he entrusted me with who is bone of my bone, flesh of my flesh, like we're seeing as one in the eyes of God. The great mystery of Ephesians five. I had to completely shift how I thought about serving her.
00;04;08;27 - 00;04;31;04
Brandon Miller
And, that transition Kayla, has, thank God, carried him different ups and downs, as one might imagine. But really learning, some core principles about how to love her, to cherish her, to honor her, to grow with her. And so I would say, one of the first things we had to do was figure out as much as being lovers is important.
00;04;31;05 - 00;04;46;05
Brandon Miller
Being friends became a tremendous priority. How how do we do? Being friendly and engaging and enjoying each other. And that was a that was a massive shift for both of us. That has carried over different seasons.
00;04;46;07 - 00;05;11;23
Caleb Cole
Yeah. Yesterday my wife said that we were tag team teaching and, she was giving different focuses and she said focus on friendship. And I thought that was so good, because if we don't learn to be friends and enjoy one another, enjoy one another's company, right? How can we sustain this, especially for a long time? And we do end up and a lot of the guys probably have experiences, we just end up being roommates, right?
00;05;11;24 - 00;05;39;14
Caleb Cole
We're we're co laborers in raising children, building a household, building income, you know, fulfilling all the to do lists. But there's no deeper connection because we're just roommates accomplishing things together. We maybe even work together. Right? Some of us I know Christy and I have, And it's so easy to drift away from, like, the friendship and enjoying and and even, like, activities together.
00;05;39;14 - 00;05;57;11
Caleb Cole
Shared activities, fun. And so I think that's such a good encouragement for the guys like men. Are you pursuing friendship with your wife? What are some practical things you've done? I know I've done some to like to make sure that there's friendship there. So it's one thing to say it, but how do you do it?
00;05;57;14 - 00;06;21;21
Brandon Miller
Yeah. So we we, just yesterday actually, so we're now, you know, 33 years later on the tail end of our parenting partnership, right? So our youngest just turned 16. Yeah. And youngest of seven. So with seven children all making their way into their, their various parts of life, where we're now right now at a phase of what does this look like?
00;06;21;21 - 00;06;38;03
Brandon Miller
Post children in our home. We've had to fight for this. So along the way we have tried to figure out, well, we're going to partner together as parents. That's a given. We're both going to respect each other's careers. We're going to find a way that we serve together in the ministry. But then what do we what are our hobbies?
00;06;38;03 - 00;07;03;12
Brandon Miller
What do we enjoy together? Where do we want to spend time with things to look forward to? And then what's our I'll call it the romance routine. What is it that keeps that that spark, in our marriage. And so what we have come to learn is that being able to be friends who look out for each other, who enjoy being around each other, who enjoy catching, first phone call of good news.
00;07;03;14 - 00;07;04;05
Caleb Cole
Trusting.
00;07;04;05 - 00;07;25;14
Brandon Miller
Each other with, failures, being able to have accountability with each other when we're developing or growing an area that God is speaking to us. And so we committed that we would be each other's first phone call, if you will become each other's friends and then finding things that we enjoy doing together. So just yesterday, talking about hobbies, my wife said, I want to take up golf.
00;07;25;17 - 00;07;53;10
Brandon Miller
She said, I've always wanted to. And I said, great, she's. Are you any good? I said, not really, but but I'm willing to pick that up because she said, let's try it. You know, we'll have fun doing. It's good exercise. It's a call. So finding things that you're aligned with but being very practical about, the difference between I love you, I'm committed to you, I want to be intimate with you, but I actually like you, and I want I enjoy just being together, finding things that we like to do.
00;07;53;12 - 00;08;16;20
Caleb Cole
I love that I know for Christy and I, you know, we're the same way of, like, hey, we're going to call each other first after something big happens after something hard happens, right? It's like, who am I going to for counsel, advice, even celebration? Yeah, right. So it's going to be each other as our first phone call, even playful texts throughout the day.
00;08;16;23 - 00;08;34;01
Caleb Cole
Right. We'll send each other like stupid memes on social media and laugh about it. And so, like, making sure that there is a friendship. And so I think for some of the guys out there, may have to start with you doing something out of the norm and you send your wife a text, she's like, why are you sending me this?
00;08;34;03 - 00;08;55;12
Caleb Cole
But it can become routine and become where she actually says, oh, he's he's prioritizing me, right? He's putting me first. I know for us, we also the romantic schedule is big for us. You know that we have monthly, date nights. Some couples get to weekly. And that was a goal at one point in our life right now, it's just not doable.
00;08;55;14 - 00;09;17;21
Caleb Cole
With our kids schedule and everything, but monthly day nights. But we really do every Friday, a date day. So we do have weekly dates. And for us it's usually coffee in the morning and we do coffee for a couple hours. Sometimes it's brunch, sometimes it's lunch. It kind of depends on our schedule. But we maintain that consistency.
00;09;17;21 - 00;09;38;05
Caleb Cole
And then during that time we're going to do a few key things. So we're going to go through an emotion wheel. It's a tool we have where we just talk about the last time we felt this. And in life in general, not always even about the person and even that five minute activity, it's like I hear into her heart.
00;09;38;07 - 00;09;56;02
Caleb Cole
I also have to get better and develop the muscle of sharing some of my feelings and emotions, which I'm not always great at. But this tool forces me to do that, and she feels more connected to me. And so just the consistency right of we're going to we're going to do coffee every Friday together or brunch or lunch.
00;09;56;04 - 00;10;16;14
Caleb Cole
Right. And then that bleeds over to a monthly day, which bleeds over to us connecting throughout the week, you know, being my first call. And then in reality, even at home. Right. I'm going to I'm going to give her a hug and kiss. Every time I leave the house. I'm going to greet her with a hug and a kiss every time I come home.
00;10;16;14 - 00;10;36;14
Caleb Cole
And she's going to be the first person I go to. And that's just something we committed to one another to help maintain connection, right? Which does in turn serve her cause she just wants to know that I see her, that I value her, that I love her. And so those are all like great things you're doing, impactful things I think we're following through on as well.
00;10;36;14 - 00;10;53;13
Brandon Miller
Yeah. I got to say though, that, I've had to learn that I got to give like, my wife is a foodie and she likes to wine, taste like she's a member of different wineries. She's a real estate social use wine as gifts and. Absolutely. And so if I ever ask her, hey, what would you like to do on a date?
00;10;53;20 - 00;11;12;15
Brandon Miller
She's going to say, let's go wine tasting. Yeah, that might be one of my less favorite things. I like I like a good wine, like anybody. But when I sit in there and they put up six of them, I'm like, not sure that I see a lot of distinguishing taste, but I'll find the one that, you know, I'll, I'll usually default to a Zinfandel.
00;11;12;15 - 00;11;32;06
Brandon Miller
Great. I can I try that one multiple times because I don't need all the others. But but that. But what I have had to learn is I'm going to give on some things, and she's going to give up some things because it's. If I can if I can bend to her needs her to mine. That's what friends do with each other.
00;11;32;11 - 00;11;48;15
Brandon Miller
It's what we do. It's we. We listen to things we don't care to listen to because it's my friend sharing it. We get involved in. You know, I can't tell you how many real estate transactions I hear about that. You know, I have some level of go get, keep up the good work.
00;11;48;15 - 00;11;49;26
Caleb Cole
But I don't care that much, right?
00;11;49;27 - 00;12;13;10
Brandon Miller
Yeah. I mean, it's not it's I mean, she has tried to rope me into the business at least 100 times, and I appreciate that she has referred and I have always said, I don't know that you and I should ever do business together like we should. Yeah, yeah. I want to stay married to you, but but in that context, I have to remember the amount of times I talked to her about my stuff that isn't her stuff.
00;12;13;10 - 00;12;32;13
Brandon Miller
And so part of friendship is that you're there for each other through whatever it is, and you're sacrificing for each other. And I think that's probably a lesson I had to learn in the, in this context. Most of us would agree in marriage, keeping the homes fire burning and having a good sex life is very important. Yeah, and that's an important topic.
00;12;32;13 - 00;13;02;04
Brandon Miller
But if if you confuse a woman's emotion for just physical, it doesn't sustain itself. Yeah. She has to back into sex with the emotion. She's got to feel. Something is happening between you. At least 33 years of my experience has taught me when my wife is feeling considered, valued, appreciated, respected. Really important for my wife. Yeah. All of the other things work really good.
00;13;02;04 - 00;13;22;06
Brandon Miller
There's there's a lot of healthy consistency there. When I've confused that, when I've gone out of order with her. And perhaps in this we could talk about, you know, how we engage spiritually with each other. Yeah. That actually has been where we get the best alignment when I'm really attending to and think, yesterday you said the garden.
00;13;22;08 - 00;13;22;26
Caleb Cole
The garden you.
00;13;22;26 - 00;13;29;11
Brandon Miller
Use the garden analogy, which I think is good. Like if I want a healthy garden, we don't care for it. Water it, protect it.
00;13;29;14 - 00;13;58;24
Caleb Cole
Yeah, absolutely. I, I think as you, you know, process through your marriages for all the guys out there and what you're doing practically towards your wife, what you just said is probably step one right now is going do they feel valued, seen, respected, even catered to right where I'm putting their needs before my own. I mean, that's what we're called to do, right?
00;13;58;27 - 00;14;07;29
Caleb Cole
Die to self. Be like Christ, right? Give our lives up for our wives. And yet we're so selfish that that's, like, foreign to a lot of us.
00;14;07;29 - 00;14;08;17
Brandon Miller
I know.
00;14;08;19 - 00;14;21;03
Caleb Cole
And we want, we want them to listen to what we want, do what we want to do, cater to our needs physically. But what about what they need? What are they desiring? What are they asking for?
00;14;21;03 - 00;14;39;19
Brandon Miller
And I think I think we got to say this in fairness, like some of us brothers emote a lot, like when we're down and we have something like it's the old adage that when a man gets sick, it's like, yeah, yeah, like the world just fell apart. He needs all the attention. And when a woman gets sick, it's like, well, get up.
00;14;39;19 - 00;14;58;05
Brandon Miller
You're not that sick like this idea. And they do. I give a lot of credit. They do shoulder some things better than men do. Well, I've had to come to terms with the fact that when I'm emotive, when I'm in a mood, when I need her, I need her, I need her to be on, you know, listen to me.
00;14;58;05 - 00;15;24;08
Brandon Miller
Be be attentive, show compassion, nurture. Don't lecture me. Don't tell me what I need to do. Just listen to me. Right. Yeah. Well weird. She wants that back. And and sometimes for us guys like we aren't always in tune with how weak we are sometimes. And how, how, how sad we can come across. It's not the sexiest version of us when we're whining and we're down and every one of us dudes are going to get down one day.
00;15;24;10 - 00;15;41;13
Brandon Miller
The world's going to beat up on him. He's going to beat you up. You're not going to be you're going to be struggling with a kid struggling at work, and you want your friend there for you, but are you giving it back in the same proportion? And I think that was a really important distinction for me, is that there's going to be seasons where I got to be the strong one.
00;15;41;16 - 00;15;55;10
Brandon Miller
Yeah, I got to be the one here that's holding it down for both of us, because I'm going to ask her to do the same at other times. And I think that that healthy give and take in a marriage, it's it's the vital blood. Without it, you're, you're going to starve each other.
00;15;55;13 - 00;16;19;06
Caleb Cole
Yeah. And unfortunately, there has been prior marriages and relationships where both are down at the same time. Yep. And that's when things get hard, right? When you both are maybe in a moment of defeat, discouragement, disgrace, whatever it is. Right. Maybe you've been beat up, lost a job. You know, finances are struggling. You're not. You're not excelling in the other areas.
00;16;19;06 - 00;16;47;17
Caleb Cole
You're live. Maybe you're you're hurting physically, but I've found in in our marriage, it's usually what you describe where one of us is good and the other one is struggling. And that's when that person has to lift the other one up. And then thankfully, it's kind of been like vice versa. And and I would say for most of the guys, like they probably have experienced that, but we have to be willing to lift them up knowing that there will be a time when we need to be supported, lift it up, encourage and strengthen.
00;16;47;19 - 00;17;02;20
Caleb Cole
I think, I think one of my favorite stories is actually my parents. So my mom was was telling us the story a couple of years ago where my dad, he's really into cycling and, he was doing like sprint triathlons. So he would, you know, run bike sweat.
00;17;02;22 - 00;17;03;29
Brandon Miller
Yeah.
00;17;04;01 - 00;17;23;19
Caleb Cole
And so one day they were driving, I don't know where they were driving to a dinner or something. And, and they were going through an area where he had ridden his bike in a race. And so he's describing to her this race and he's like, so we went through this street and turned on this spot and, and he's describing it to her.
00;17;23;21 - 00;17;32;11
Caleb Cole
And he'd been going for a few minutes and my mom said, Randy, she stopped them. She said, I do not care.
00;17;32;14 - 00;17;56;17
Caleb Cole
And he paused for like two seconds and then went, yeah. So then we turn right at the next street. She said he just kept right on. It was like I don't know if he heard her or didn't hear her. To this day, I don't know. But I love this story because I'm like, he was like, no, I'm going to tell my story and you're going to listen to it regardless of whether you care or not, right?
00;17;56;17 - 00;18;10;15
Caleb Cole
Right. And so that's an instance for me where it's like, look, there's going to be things like you were saying earlier that we don't care about as it relates to our lives, and it's not something that we really value and vice versa.
00;18;10;17 - 00;18;11;10
Brandon Miller
That's right.
00;18;11;13 - 00;18;27;01
Caleb Cole
But we're going to listen. I think my mom was wrong there. She should have just said, oh, that's great, honey. You know, she should just let's you should not have said, I don't care, right. Because we would she wouldn't want that done to her. Right. And I don't think we would want that done to us. And, and so I think in the same way.
00;18;27;01 - 00;18;48;24
Caleb Cole
Right. We support our wives. They may be sharing something about a struggle at work or how they're beefing with one of their friends. Man, I do my best. I just listen, I said, I must be hard. You're going through that, right? I empathize, and then I said, hey, do you want. And this is what I've learned. This is some real advice, some real game for the man I've learned now.
00;18;48;26 - 00;19;08;23
Caleb Cole
I used to try to fix every situation for you need to do this, this and this. Say this. Dude, she did not like that. So now I actually ask her, I go, hey, we just wanting to like, you know, verbally process and let me hear what's going on. Or do you actually want some feedback, like do you want, some advice.
00;19;08;25 - 00;19;32;08
Caleb Cole
And there's times where she goes, no, I don't want any advice. I just wanted you to listen to me, okay? I totally understand. Like, I'll be praying that you figure it all that out. There's other times, like. Yeah, actually, would you give me some practical advice and then I'm invited to speak into it. But I've learned now that I have to ask because I don't, I'm not maybe the most emotionally intelligent.
00;19;32;10 - 00;19;44;20
Caleb Cole
I think I'm pretty emotional, intelligent. But in a lot of those instances, I don't know. I don't know if she wants help or if she just wants to process. And I've learned to just ask. And when I ask, she tells me, and it always ends.
00;19;44;20 - 00;19;45;15
Brandon Miller
Well, that's good.
00;19;45;15 - 00;19;50;22
Caleb Cole
But when I just jump in, I can, go places you want me to go? Like, don't tell me.
00;19;50;25 - 00;20;15;08
Brandon Miller
I'll add to that because I have learned by how she's talking, whether she wants me in or not. And what I have had to get really good at is when she does want the feedback. Yeah, I can't just phone it in. I actually really need to think about what is she asking me? If I was coaching her right now or I was giving her advice?
00;20;15;11 - 00;20;34;01
Brandon Miller
I really because I've, I've half done it and she nails me for that. It's you know, is this is this what you would do to that executive you meet with? Is this how you would engage, right, with someone in your business? And I've had to go, that's not right. If I want her full attention, all of her, then I have to know.
00;20;34;01 - 00;20;51;00
Brandon Miller
And then I've also learned. It's fair to say you're not going to get the best version of me sitting in bed at 1130 right now. For me to give you my best, I. This is not going to be what you're asking for. Yeah. Can we do this at a time when we're both fresh and I can think about what you're saying here.
00;20;51;03 - 00;21;18;05
Brandon Miller
So knowing when to engage when or not. I don't know about you, but I've had some of the most frustrating conflicts because we were talking about things too deep for the moment where we both were at either emotionally, physically tired, you know, we're both dealing with something under the, you know, undercurrent because with for those of you who have adult kids, you know this once once your kids cross into adult land, your control measures are very different, right?
00;21;18;07 - 00;21;34;10
Brandon Miller
And you got to watch some slow motion train wrecks, like, you know what their decision is going to lead to. And you can do your best to advise them. And while it's happening as parents, you're going to suffer through it with them because you know, you're going to be asked to be the the backboard after they hit it.
00;21;34;10 - 00;22;00;20
Brandon Miller
Right? Right. And so we've had to learn in this next phase of life with kids who have kids and reality of decisions, that there's times where we just have to be there for each other to go. We do not like how we're both feeling right now. We are suffering. And you said something earlier about when you're both down, I, I want to add to one really important aspect of friendship with your wife and serving your wife in growing.
00;22;00;22 - 00;22;03;27
Brandon Miller
You need to have other trusted friends in your life.
00;22;03;28 - 00;22;04;06
Caleb Cole
Good.
00;22;04;13 - 00;22;25;23
Brandon Miller
You got to have some people that you can fall back to as a couple. Yeah, when things get a little rough, like you got to know when and who you can trust that they keep your stuff in in time. And you can both have your own counselors, but it does help together when you have some community. So I've I've had to learn that really important piece.
00;22;25;23 - 00;22;34;17
Brandon Miller
You said when it is time to give back feedback and how she needs it delivered. Like if she's looking for my A-game, which she usually is.
00;22;34;19 - 00;22;58;18
Caleb Cole
Yeah. And there's a lot there that I think are practical steps we should take one of being, hey, let's be honest with our wife. Like I'm exhausted right now. I'm not going to give you the best of what you need, right? Maybe this isn't the best time for this conversation. We've battled this a lot because my wife, Jill, I come alive at night and I am not a night person.
00;22;58;18 - 00;23;17;05
Caleb Cole
Like I'm not a night owl. Like, lately, it's like 930 to 10 hits, and I'm. I'm gone. Like I'm a pass out. You're trying to talk to me like you're trying to process emotions like it's not happening. So we got to do this in the morning. That's right. We got to do this at some point during the day.
00;23;17;08 - 00;23;33;06
Caleb Cole
And then the other component is knowing when we are down and you just said this is having someone else, like, I have a pastor friend of mine, and any time I have a bad day, I'm discouraged. Like, I can't always bring that to my wife. I don't feel like because, number one, she doesn't love seeing me. Really?
00;23;33;06 - 00;23;49;19
Caleb Cole
Week, or having a moment of weakness. And then the other thing, and I don't think not that she minds it, she doesn't mind. But the other thing is, sometimes I just need somebody else to encourage me is I have a pastor friend, so I'm having a bad day. I'll literally call him and just be like, bro.
00;23;49;22 - 00;24;07;12
Caleb Cole
Like, I'm just feeling like, crappy about myself, my leadership. But. Right, my me as a husband, I'm like, can you just encourage me? And he'll just gas me up for like five minutes? I'm like, bro, I feel so much better. Thank you. Another usually pray for me at the end, you know, and just having that friend to call, you know, makes such a big difference.
00;24;07;12 - 00;24;07;20
Caleb Cole
Yeah.
00;24;07;21 - 00;24;27;22
Brandon Miller
And I do have to say this, we were in a really deep hole the other day because we have, one of our kids going through a really difficult situation. And my wife did something that always works for us, always. She said, can we just stop talking for a minute and let me pray? And I said, absolutely. And my wife prayed.
00;24;27;25 - 00;24;50;19
Brandon Miller
One of the most powerful, sincere, honest prayers. And and it it has been and I'll tell you this, any time either one of us has said, can I just stop what we're going through and pray like it's game changing in the atmosphere? And that other day I give her a ton of credit. Like she was like, I just like, we we're going to just keep digging this hole.
00;24;50;22 - 00;24;55;19
Brandon Miller
And this wasn't us. We were both hurting for a child and.
00;24;55;22 - 00;24;56;22
Caleb Cole
Trying to figure it out.
00;24;56;25 - 00;25;18;15
Brandon Miller
Seriously. So I wanted to mention that. And then there's something else. As you were talking, I thought about that like, we got to tell the brothers, my wife has never found me more attractive, more interesting, more engaging than when I am fully immersed in my work. That when I am, I like when when I'm bringing her stuff from.
00;25;18;15 - 00;25;41;21
Brandon Miller
And I was praying and God said this, or I was reading the scripture and this is going or this happened here in the ministry, we have never had more intimacy than when she sees me out doing that work. Yeah, putting in that time. And I think as men, sometimes because we don't share as freely, I think it's important to give some commentary on, hey, here's how it's going with me.
00;25;41;21 - 00;26;01;08
Brandon Miller
And Lord, here's what God speaking to me out of his word, because I think there's a place our wife wants to follow that lead and trust that this isn't just your big idea, buddy. Like, yeah, like you are the Holy Spirit's actually leading this marriage, and you're actually tuning in to make sure you're making decisions not based upon your own hubris.
00;26;01;10 - 00;26;36;24
Caleb Cole
Well, don't you think most of us as men almost are fine with going? Yeah, my wife's more spiritual than me. I've. I've literally. I'm the pastor of this church, and I've said this on multiple occasions. Yeah, Chrissy's more spiritual than me, but in reality. Right. Like, I have a lot of spiritual rhythms that are probably more consistent than hers, but I it's almost like as a man, we just default because maybe spiritual practices and spirituality almost in our minds is associated with femininity.
00;26;36;26 - 00;26;37;17
Brandon Miller
Yeah.
00;26;37;19 - 00;26;54;04
Caleb Cole
And it's like, it's kind of femme, you know, like to be super spiritual. And I love the presence of God. And so like, yeah, my wife does that, but not me. And so I think what you just said is so good to go. No, we need to embrace and step into the fact that, like we are the spiritual heads, we're the spiritual leaders.
00;26;54;04 - 00;27;17;13
Caleb Cole
There's nothing feminine about it. It is a masculine energy kind of thing that we're called to. Our Savior was a masculine man. Yeah. Who who went to the cross. Right. And and and in meekness and humility, power like, humbled himself to the point of death. Yep. And we got to embrace that role of like we serve our wives best by leading the way.
00;27;17;13 - 00;27;41;20
Caleb Cole
God called us to lead being in the healthy spiritual rhythms so that we are those strong spiritual leaders. And then we go, hey, here's what God showing me. Here's what I'm hearing. Let's pray together. And I think we've we've defaulted to letting our wives lead spiritually too often in the homes, lead our children in the home. And I just feel like we need to tell the guys what you just said is so crucial.
00;27;41;24 - 00;28;00;03
Caleb Cole
Like you're going to be the most attractive, your wife when you're leading spiritually. And it's actually not that hard. It's literally just going, hey, God said this to me the other day. I was in prayer. I was listening to the Bible or reading my Bible, and I, I read this and man, it really struck this core to my heart.
00;28;00;04 - 00;28;16;15
Caleb Cole
You share one thing with her from the word that you learn today. She's going to be like, oh my gosh, like, my husband is a leader. And then you go home at night and you go, hey, can I, can I pray for us for a marriage? And would you pray for me to be a better husband and leader and boom, now your lead.
00;28;16;16 - 00;28;18;26
Caleb Cole
It's not that hard. We make it so much more difficult.
00;28;18;26 - 00;28;38;12
Brandon Miller
And I think when you when you take what you just said and go, look, you're way over your pay grade leave leading a family, you're you're over your pay grade leading yourself when it comes to walking with Christ. Because he told us upfront, you can't do this. Yeah. But he told us upfront, this is mission impossible and it only be done because you have him, right?
00;28;38;16 - 00;29;01;18
Brandon Miller
Right. And I, I don't know about you, but I have had to learn again and again, walk humbly, be willing to say I'm doing everything I can to lead this family, and I'm staying plugged into the Holy Spirit. But let's just be real. I'm going to mess this up. Yeah, I am going to be at times hypocritical. I'm going to be at times, you know, raise my voice when I shouldn't.
00;29;01;18 - 00;29;30;00
Brandon Miller
I'm going to overreact. I'm going to do things that are inclined to each of our sinful tendencies, right. Whatever that means. But what I have learned over 33 years is that when my wife sees me walking in humility, willing to admit when I'm wrong, she really appreciates that. And and what I have found, she'll follow that lead, because then both of us are okay acknowledging when we didn't quite get it.
00;29;30;02 - 00;29;49;18
Brandon Miller
And there's a there's a calmness that comes that does go back to friendship. It goes back to intimacy. It goes back to partnership. Because what she really wants from me is, hey, you, you walk in step with the Holy Spirit. You. We both trust that Jesus is going to lead you to love me. And we can partner out of that.
00;29;49;25 - 00;30;10;03
Brandon Miller
And from that, here's the other key that my wife needs for me. She needs fun. Yes, my wife has to have fun. If I am not introducing humor and fun into our relationship, this is going to get really hard, really fast. But when my wife can have fun and enjoy the stuff we do together, it makes a big difference.
00;30;10;05 - 00;30;28;20
Caleb Cole
Yeah, no, I love that. I mean, my wife always says and tells our kids like, dad is the fun master, right? Because I'm like a guy that just I want to have a good time. Obviously I'm going to have serious conversations. I'm a preaching. I'm a I'm a bring it like, be real with people and call them out.
00;30;28;23 - 00;30;38;04
Caleb Cole
But at the end of the day, right, it's like, here's how we need to live, but we also need to enjoy the life God has given us, right? It's a blessing. It's a missed doesn't last very long.
00;30;38;04 - 00;30;38;17
Brandon Miller
That's right.
00;30;38;19 - 00;30;50;23
Caleb Cole
Like, are you laughing? Is there joy? I think I serve my wife best. The best thing I do in our marriage is that I bring fun, and I. I say, hey, we're going to go get it.
00;30;50;25 - 00;30;53;06
Brandon Miller
You can help her to laugh. Yes. Yep.
00;30;53;08 - 00;31;14;01
Caleb Cole
And and I goof around and I and I tease her and I say, hey, we're going to go do this fun activity even though the house needs to be cleaned. But who cares? You know, like sometimes because she's very like, she's a she's a three on the Enneagram, if you guys know, like this is type A yes. She's a type A, she, she's a going to accomplish.
00;31;14;01 - 00;31;34;23
Caleb Cole
She's going to she's a driver she wants to build. And even with our staff, I have to come in and bring some levity and fun because it could just be all business like accomplishment. I go do, do. And what's crazy is she actually loves that, but she doesn't naturally inclined to that. Right? So I serve her by actually going, we're going to have fun today.
00;31;34;24 - 00;31;46;09
Caleb Cole
That's right. Right. We're going to laugh today. We're we're going to actually forget about the to do list today. And, and just escape for today because we need to. Right. And she values that.
00;31;46;14 - 00;32;11;27
Brandon Miller
We're meant to enjoy this life. Yes we are meant to. Like walking with God is hard, but it still can be the most enjoyable thing you ever do. And the fact that you get to do it with a life partner man, what a what a blessing, what a benefit. And when I think when you when we take that opportunity to lead with life and vitality and humor and joy like we we take some ownership of that, even for our most serious brothers.
00;32;11;27 - 00;32;50;25
Brandon Miller
Right? So find your fun step, find your joy, find a place where you can introduce that or go with that if she's the more gifted one there. But while you're at that remembering you have been blessed with a life partner. You don't have to do this walk alone and that is a reason to stay grateful for her. And that's probably the last key I would say today is when I stay in gratitude for Annalynne when I remember her before God regularly thanking him for the gift, I look over a lot of the things that might not align with me the best I can get past things that might irritate me because I'm being reminded of
00;32;50;26 - 00;33;02;03
Brandon Miller
this is a gift I'm to treasure. This gift and staying grateful for my wife has been a massive key for keeping the keep on, keeping the marriage strong and her feeling valued so good.
00;33;02;09 - 00;33;30;06
Caleb Cole
We're blessed right with who and and the spouses God has given us. And sometimes we focus on all the lack, rather being thankful. That's right for the the blessing that they bring to our life. And so final call up, not call out here at the meta Faith podcast, we call you up, not out. So my call up, Brandon, for these guys is that they would do something this week to romanticize their wife, to serve them by letting them know they're seen.
00;33;30;06 - 00;33;52;29
Caleb Cole
They're valued, they're important. They're they're desired. Right. And not just physically, guys. Right. Because a lot of you, like, I show her. Yeah. When I'm trying to guess, you know, like. No, no, no. What are you doing? A romanticize this week. Bring her flowers, take her on a date. Right. Send her a clean text about how thankful you are and how beautiful she is.
00;33;52;29 - 00;34;04;21
Caleb Cole
But do something to start pouring into and depositing into that bank account of of romanticism and connection. And I guarantee you, you're going to reap dividends.
00;34;04;23 - 00;34;27;29
Brandon Miller
Yeah, here's my call it fellows. If you can bring at least one thing this week to your wife reminding her of how you're leading this relationship by following, the leadership of Jesus, and whether that's a scripture, that's something that happened in prayer, something you're grateful for, something that clearly indicates how you are leading in a spiritual way.
00;34;28;02 - 00;34;33;11
Brandon Miller
At least one will be a great gift to her and to your marriage.
00;34;33;14 - 00;34;58;13
Caleb Cole
Well, hey, thanks so much, guys, for tuning in to the men of Faith podcast. We're so glad to be back with you. We have new episodes out every other Friday. You can listen on iTunes or Spotify. You can also watch on YouTube. If you got something out of this, be sure to share it. Share it with a brother, share it with the guy you know and, let's keep walking in step with Jesus grace and peace.
00;34;58;13 - 00;34;58;24
Caleb Cole
See you next.
00;34;58;24 - 00;34;59;15
Brandon Miller
Time. Peace.