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Released every Tuesday, the LOUNGE LIZARDS podcast helps listeners navigate the experience of finding and enjoying premium cigars (both Cuban and non-Cuban) and quality spirits. Episodes are normally around 90 minutes long and feature a variety of different topics including food, travel, life, sports and work.
The podcast features seven members: Rooster, Poobah, Gizmo, Senator, Pagoda, Grinder and Bam Bam.
This is not your typical cigar podcast. We’re a group of friends who love sharing cigars, whiskey and a good laugh.
Join us and become a card-carrying lounge lizard yourself! Email us at hello@loungelizardspod.com to join the conversation and be featured on an upcoming episode!
**Gizmo:** [00:00:00] Welcome to the Lounge Lizards podcast presented by Fabrica5. It's so good to have you here. It's a leisure and lifestyle podcast founded on our love of premium cigars, as well as whiskey, travel, food, work, and whatever else we feel like getting into. My name is Gizmo. Tonight, I'm joined by Senator, Pagoda, Grinder, and Bam Bam, and our plan is to smoke a cigar while we're at it.
Drink some Mezcal, talk about life, and of course, have some laughs. So take this as your 136th official invitation to join us and become a card carrying lounge lizard. Plan to meet us here once a week. We're going to smoke a new world cigar tonight, share our thoughts on it, and give you our formal lizard rating.
We welcome back chef partner, Ricky Camacho from the Añejo restaurant group for our first Mezcal deep dive. We discuss why it pairs so well with cigars, the difference in agave varietals, and the confusion around this sometimes divisive spirit, all among a variety of other things for the next two hours.
So sit back, get your favorite drink, light up a cigar, and enjoy as we pair three artisanal mezcals with the Drew Estate Liga Pravada T52 in Corona Viva. A toro tonight [00:01:00] on the pod from Drew Estate. It's called the Liga Pravada T52 in Corona Viva. It's a 48 ring gauge cigar by six inches long and boys almost two years to the day, correct?
We are back with our friend Chef Ricky Camacho,
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** correct? It's been two years two years to
**Gizmo:** almost to the day, man. Yeah Welcome back, bro. I almost didn't recognize him when he walked in
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** Yeah, man You guys have been doing it good stuff. My congratulations.
**Gizmo:** It's been, I can't believe it's been two years. We've actually been talking about doing a Mezcal special since we did the tequila specials long time.
And here we are two years later. So welcome in, man. Glad to have you.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** Thanks for having me. And, uh,
**Gizmo:** let's cut this thing. Boys. See, we're getting on the cold draw on the rapper, doing another drew a state cigar tonight on the pod. We've done quite a few. I think this is our seventh or eighth tonight on the podcast.
First from the [00:02:00] T 52, our second league of provada. First one we did was the number nine in Toro quite some time ago. And, uh, this is a cigar people love, it seems. Cold draw is delicious. I was smelling the foot before we came on air. Yeah, it's earthy. The foot of this cigar smells amazing. It's very nice.
You know what I'm getting?
**Grinder:** Getting some raisins. Ooh! Some dried fruit. A little dried fruit going on there.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** No, I'm definitely getting some savory notes. I'm getting salty, savory, almost ham and prune. Ham.
**Bam Bam:** I like the ham, prune. My lord, that's some call out there.
**Gizmo:** We have a specialized palate in the room tonight.
You know, we have a
**Bam Bam:** new connoisseur corner over there. Lest
**Gizmo:** we forget. And it's funny, he's sitting in connoisseur corner seat size. Lest
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** we forget, he is a chef. He is a chef. For what it's worth, prune is a dried fruit. Absolutely correct.
**Gizmo:** As our friend Bam knows.
**Bam Bam:** That's exactly
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** right.
**Gizmo:** So I'm very excited to have this cigar.
You know, I gotta say on the wrapper, it's, the wrapper seems incredibly thick.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. It's [00:03:00] as thick as the League of Nine that we did, but it has less of a glistening finish than the, that the league had. It's funny you say that I, it's a bit matte, which I like. Of
**Gizmo:** course. I remember when we did the League of Nine and we've smoked them since we noticed that kind of glaze glaze on there.
Mm-Hmm. . It's not present here. Yeah, it's a matte finish on this beautiful spot. My draw is wide open though. Alright, boys, let's light this thing. The Drew Estate, Viga Bravada, T 52 in Corona. Viva. Again, it's a Toro. 48 ring gauge cigar by six inches long, limited release, a lot more limited than the. Liga 9s are.
T 52s are quite a bit more limited. Yeah, these aren't always available. Because how much were these? I think these were about 14 bucks. Oh, that's not bad at all. Yeah, they were pretty reasonable, which is, you know, when I was, when I was looking to do another Liga, I had seen some folks, you know, some folks emailed us about doing the T 52, and I just like this size.[00:04:00]
Yeah. 48 by 6. I think it feels good in the hand. It's not too overwhelming. And these cigars, you know, they pack a punch. They pack a punch. Yeah. So we'll see how this does in this format tonight.
**Bam Bam:** Well, it's definitely different than a Liga 9 right off the light.
**Grinder:** It's good. It seems much fuller bodied than the, the T52s that I typically smoke. Really? I usually smoke a Toro in these. Okay. This is definitely like, definitely a lot more oomph.
**Gizmo:** I feel like the oomph is smooth though. I agree. Like it's not biting.
Yeah. Yeah. But it's certainly
**Bam Bam:** a full cigar. Have you retro'd yet? No. I have. I only
**Senator:** took one draw. Yeah. Yeah. Ben, when you said this is really different from the Liga 9, what do you mean? In what way?
**Bam Bam:** I, on the Liga 9, all jokes aside, I got an awful lot of raisin right off the bat and it continued all the way through with a lot of coffee for me.
I'm getting coffee here, but it's much earthier for me. There's some minerality here. It's earthy with a nice. [00:05:00] Lace of maybe an espresso or a coffee. I'm getting in this thing.
**Senator:** I agree with that. I think I Haven't had the League of Nine in a while But from what I remember of it, it was a lot sweeter the finish like yeah, or like chocolate notes.
You can say it It's okay. Go ahead. Oh, there was dried fruit
**Bam Bam:** It's so funny fucking funny. Everyone's avoiding that now. It's hilarious.
**Gizmo:** Well, there's a bit of a stigma here, Ben.
**Bam Bam:** Oh, chef, you've come to the right place at the right time. All right.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** So the last time I was on here with you guys, we spoke briefly about, um, you know, other, other foods or spices where you may find some of those fried, uh, dried fruit notes.
So for instance, ancho chilies, morita chilies, you know, some of the chilies found in Mexico, uh, when you open up a lot of those dried chilies, they're loaded with the aroma of dried raisin, prune, or just dry fruit in general, apricot. [00:06:00] Sounds like kind of, you could switch it up inventory and just say, Hey, I'm getting some ancho chili on here.
You know what? You go and you know, you just, you just
**Bam Bam:** add it to my arsenal. Yeah. What's it called? Ancho chili. Ancho. Chili. Chili. Just send '
**Gizmo:** em a text message. That'd be the best way to
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** ancho. Guillo. Guillo, I like that. Dried an chilies in general. Have sweet noses. I think he has a tough time
**Pagoda:** with black pepper.
You bring chilies and nothing.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** Chef, what are you getting on a cigar? I'm getting a lot of earthy notes. I'm getting, I'm still getting some of that, uh, savory, but not in this, not in the salty sense. For me, it's just, it's very robust. Uh, and I think it's going to go amazingly well with what we're pairing tonight.
Mezcal is going to just really, you know, balance this out well. Can't wait. Because it is, it is very, it is very heavy, uh, in a great way. Uh, but this is definitely a full body, full mouth feel cigar for you.
**Gizmo:** I, I'm definitely getting, you called it savory, but not salty on the front of my tongue, the front of my [00:07:00] mouth.
It's not a salty thing, but it's, it's a really interesting, almost like a tingle kind of thing that's happening. So
**Bam Bam:** there is a tingle.
**Gizmo:** Yeah.
**Bam Bam:** And
**Gizmo:** I
**Bam Bam:** like it. And that could be a touch of pepper, maybe that's doing that. Yeah, there's some pepper in there. Sichuan
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** peppercorn is notorious for doing that to your palate.
Wow.
**Pagoda:** Now, the wrapper on this was stock cut, right? Because Yeah, it's stock cut Connecticut
**Gizmo:** Habano seed.
**Pagoda:** Nice. So, I was reading somewhere, um, I think the stock cut plants typically tend to be earthier, uh, in just overall the flavor profile.
**Bam Bam:** Now, are they allowed to say Habano seed? Habano seed.
**Gizmo:** As of right now, in the United States, they are.
I think in Germany, that's gonna be a problem. Oh, that's right. Okay, yeah, yeah. So it's a European thing. Yeah, that's a European thing. What Bam's referencing, a couple episodes ago, we talked about a court case where Using the terms of Bono seed, Cuban seed, et cetera, are going to be outlawed overseas. I think it was specific to Germany, but I'm assuming after that it's going to spread out through Europe.
But, um, yeah, not in the United States yet. [00:08:00] So the interesting thing about what Pagoda said too, he said there's, there's stock cut and then they're aged as stocks in Pilonis for 24 to 36. Just the wrapper on this. Wow. And what's interesting, you know, this is the big brother cigar to the Liga nine that we were talking about.
This has seven different tobaccos.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** Wow.
**Gizmo:** Seven different tobacco strains in this cigar. From where? So the binder is Brazilian and the filler is from Honduras and Nicaragua. And the rapper, like I said, is Connecticut Hibano C, and I think there's just seven different strains of that combo.
**Senator:** What a mutt of a cigar.
It really is. It's crazy. Yeah. I don't think we've ever had that many different tobaccos in one stick. Maybe the Pledge of Allegiance? Pledge of Allegiance might be one. Yes, that's true.
**Gizmo:** And I think that, uh, I think there was another cigar. I know the CAO Brasilia has Brazilian tobacco, but I feel like there was a bunch of Wasn't there an E.
P. Carillo that had a Possibly, I don't know.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** I think Davidoff has it in his school, do you know it's in that Brazilian tobacco? I don't know. I think you're right. I think you're right.
**Gizmo:** So this has, like I said, [00:09:00] Connecticut Habano seed on the wrapper. It's a Brazilian binder and the filler is Honduran and Nicaraguan, so it's pretty cool.
**Bam Bam:** So what we're getting right now in the room is I can barely see you right now. Um, every Drew Estate cigar we've ever reviewed, the combustion has been off the charts. The room is full of smoke. Yeah, it's like we just started smoking. Yeah. It's all right. It's amazing.
**Gizmo:** So this cigar line was launched in 2009.
Uh, like I said, it's the big brother to the Liga 9 that was launched in 2007. And there are a ton of other Drew Estate cigars. We already have done the history on Drew Estate, so we're not going to do that tonight. But, you know, we've done Other lines we've done from them include Herrera Esteli, the Undercrown, the Liga 9, like I said, the Liga Privada Unico.
We did the Papas Fritas in that. And then of course the Metallica cigar, the M81 Blackened we did as well. So we've touched on quite a few of their lines. Obviously the budget one in the line is the Undercrown series. We did the Maduro in that. And the Papas Fritas. And the Papas, yeah, but that's, you know, that's a [00:10:00] small cigar.
I think that's still six or eight bucks. Great cigar. I'll
**Bam Bam:** go through
**Gizmo:** all those ratings later. Has any
**Bam Bam:** Drew Estate cigar scored negatively among a group? I don't think so. The only one
**Gizmo:** that didn't do great was the Herrera Esteli Habano. That's right. That's right. We did that on episode 29 quite some time ago.
A question I have for Chef Ricky here. I mean, you've gone on this, you know, cigar journey with us over the last couple of years. Obviously, you were on two years ago. Oh, absolutely. It's been a pleasure. Uh, with us doing the tequila deep dive. And I'm curious for you, obviously, I know you've been very busy opening restaurants and building restaurants and building your business.
And we'll talk a little bit about that, but I'm curious how alongside what we've talked about with our pallets developing over the last few years, I'm curious with the chef and refined palette, the connoisseur corner over here. I'm curious how that has changed over the last couple of years for you.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** Uh, you guys have.
I'd like to think that, uh, I've influenced your tequila drinking somewhat, and it seems like I have. Uh, That's, [00:11:00] that's an understatement. Well, what you guys have done with me for cigars, uh, it's, it's been incredible. My journey with cigars, uh, I, I started, I'd say, uh, consistently maybe five or six years ago.
And, you know, I started with a lot of new world cigars and marcas in general. Just kind of what I could get my hands on. A lot of really bad experiences. And, um, you know, with you guys, I fell in love with the Cuban tobacco. Um, and you guys are, or have all been extremely generous with me and hospitable.
And, uh, I've been able to be exposed to this tobacco and these different batolas, and it's just been amazing. It's been an amazing journey. Uh, to the point where like you, I lost my global entry. You're so, uh, you're welcome. Yeah. Uh, so I, I took some risks, but they were well worth it. No regrets. Um, it's been a delicious journey.
Losing my global entry has made me a little bit gun shy. So thankfully you guys [00:12:00] have. kind of, uh, shifted direction somewhat going into the new world space. So it's made thing, it's made it easier for me to, uh, just kind of get my hands on things. And, and the experience has been just as enjoyable, but because of that Cuban experience, I've been able to, uh, Generally speaking, pick out more, uh, subtle, uh, almost feminine, like, if you will, notes in cigars where, you know, I'd say starting out, it was a lot of what I was smoking was leather and, and, and, and very robust peppery and just super robust cigars, and then just coming into the Cuban, Uh, the Cuban world, um, and even having this conversation with Pagoda a few months back, uh, where, you know, I, there are times where in smoking these cigars, I'm getting tea notes and, and, and, and biscuit notes, but not biscuits as in the, the flour doughy, uh, biscuit, but biscuit as in a tea cookie or something like that, you know, you would eat.
Um, And it's, [00:13:00] it's just, it's been incredible. It's been, it's, and it's not unlike Mezcal, you know, with Mezcal, we're going to have some similar experiences where you're just like, this should not taste like this, or why am I getting this note here? And it's just super complex. Um, and I think that's why it just makes a perfect pairing.
But yeah, I, I want to thank you guys because, you know, cigars has always been a way for me to relax and then just It's kind of calmed down, especially with the hectic schedule and uh, just hectic work in general. But it's taken an even deeper meaning. Uh, it's giving me, it's giving me a bigger purpose behind it because now I could actually speak more educated about what I'm smoking and enjoying and just as you guys are doing now when you're covering, you know, you're, it makes me so freaking proud, uh, just hearing you guys talk about tequila now and the brands that you're covering and representing and hearing people gush about what they're having and enjoying it.
Yeah, it's, it's been, it's been awesome. It's been awesome listening to you guys and just the overall evolution and just what you [00:14:00] guys are experiencing. It's been my journey too.
**Gizmo:** Awesome. Well, we're glad to have you here. So before we get into the Mezcal, let's talk about your CV, your resume, right? So you are chef partner.
At the three Añejo restaurants, New York City, you have two, one in Tribeca, one in Hell's Kitchen.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** Third one is in Philadelphia. And the third's in Philadelphia. Um, and we also have, uh, taken on the tortilla making world. So we make our own tortillas and have a factory located in New Jersey, uh, where we make, uh, Nixtamal, Nixtamal tortillas.
So we make tortillas and using the ancient, uh, Methods of, uh, the Aztec people, uh, labor of love, a lot like Mezcal. It's super difficult, highly inefficient, very expensive, and a big pain in the ass, but Is
**Bam Bam:** that a high volume wholesale production? Is It is a high volume wholesale
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** production. We, uh, provide tortillas to over a hundred and I think as of last week, twenty two, uh, wholesale accounts That's impressive.
throughout the tri state area.
**Bam Bam:** So you actually work, huh?[00:15:00]
**Gizmo:** I'm a bit worried over here.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** For what it's worth, I'm not making tortillas, but I do have involvement in some of the operation of that business. Uh, and then just, it's already been six months. I can't believe it. But just six months ago, we opened a taqueria. Also in New Jersey, um, and that's been quite the ride.
**Gizmo:** That's in Montclair, Playa Taqueria. Yeah,
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** that's in Upper Montclair, Playa Taqueria. And, uh, yeah, it's been, uh, You know, this was our first sort of venture into the fast casual takeout delivery space and it's been a lot of work. Um, you know, you think it's a smaller restaurant, you know, smaller staff, but you know, but there's just something about being customer facing that way that You know, as a chef, sometimes you're stuck in the kitchen and, and you know, you don't see your, your guests front and center.
But when you're in [00:16:00] a small concept like that, and you just get to see the smiles you put on people's faces, if you're doing it well. And just receiving the phone calls and the clientele and the people of Montclair and just whoever's been coming to us, they've been so gracious and amazing. Uh, it's, it's, it's been, it's been quite the experience.
And, and addictive. I don't mind working as much as I've been working. It's, uh, fulfilling.
**Gizmo:** So the agave piece of your life really comes from On Yeho being really the, one of the premier, if not the premier, you know, tequila and mezcal destination in New York city. When you walk into this place, especially, you know, we've been to Tribeca a lot.
You walk into that place. There's a wall full of high end. It's a tequila Mecca. It's incredible that all the high end stuff. of, of, of both, you know, all agave really, and all different type of, uh,
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** it's all agave. And interestingly, so I guess we're going on almost 10 years in Tribeca now. And when we opened, we were probably 97 percent [00:17:00] tequila.
And I would say that right now we're probably 55, 45 mezcal to tequila. Wow. Wow. Wow.
**Gizmo:** So what is the, what is the bottle count or the, the, we're,
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** we're at over 250 different expressions. Wow. Uh, between, it's not just mescal and tequila. Sorry. We also have bana, not that many of you. We have a few , we have a few Uh hmm.
Uh, which are also agave distillates from different parts of Mexico and, uh, interesting. But essentially almost all mescal.
**Gizmo:** So boys, before we get into our first mescal tonight, what are you thinking on the cigar as we get into the, uh, first third here? I think it's a really nice experience for me. What's our resident?
T52 experts say. Oh, me?
**Grinder:** Yeah, you. It's, it's, it's definitely very earthy, which I like. Yeah. Uh, it's got that earth tones. Um, I, I find the, the sweetness a little surprising
**Gizmo:** in a good way or a
**Grinder:** bad way? In a very good way. Yeah. Um, [00:18:00] the pepper is not, is not coming to, to my palate like, like I was expecting, which is also, you know, it's also solid.
So the smooth factor is really. It's really kind of level everything out. I, um, I think there's the cocoa, the cocoa notes that I'm getting are, is, is, that expression is pretty strong. Um, I mean, you know, it's a great cigar, well constructed, right? The burn is fantastic. Um, Yeah, this, and it just sits in my hand nicely.
**Senator:** It's a great shape. It does feel good in the hand. Flavor wise for me, I mean, I think the earth notes are very dominant in this cigar, which I like to be part of many new world cigars, especially fuller bodied ones, but this is definitely more than I'm used to. But what I think they've done well is it's, it's pretty well balanced with just enough sweet notes.
It's not like they're equally kind of dancing together, but just enough sweet notes in there. That and the delivery is really smooth that I'm not upset [00:19:00] by how earthy this cigar is. This, the jury's still out for me. Like I'm very intrigued by this. I'm not sure where I'm going to fall, but I think it's well balanced that I'm not unhappy with the cigar.
**Bam Bam:** I'm not getting a lot of complexity. You know, it's, it's very earth or mineral forward for me. I'm not getting any sweetness, maybe a touch, like as he noted, but not much that's dissipated, but it's the deliveries pretty smooth and elegant, but Pretty straightforward.
**Pagoda:** Once again, very earthy. I didn't get a lot of coca.
I haven't been able to get coca at all. A little bit of coffee, I think, like, and I did get like, like in the second or third puff, a little bit of pepper, but just came in and just went away. Uh, yeah. So I think, um, it's a, it's a bit early to really come up with a very conclusive.
**Gizmo:** For me, it's very smooth.
What I'm wondering is if my brain right now is, In a way relieved versus what my expectation of this cigar was. Having smoked a lot of Liga, this is my first T 52 that I've ever smoked. I [00:20:00] was expecting this to kind of punch us a little bit. And I think that the delivery of this is a lot smoother than I expected.
And there's a lot less pepper than I think I expected. A lot less spice. But Grindr, this is
**Bam Bam:** Known to be a lesser of a robust cigar than the Liga 9, correct?
**Grinder:** Yeah, well, I don't know, it just depends on who you ask. We were just talking about this earlier. Um, I find it to be more palatable than the Liga
**Pagoda:** actually.
I used to love the Liga 9. So I, and you know what, I was, I'm trying to really think about the flavor profile there. And just, uh, I don't know. I thought that was a little more cocoa forward and a little more, a lot sweeter. Yeah. I love the Liga nine. Yeah. I
**Senator:** also think that the finish on this is a little shorter than I remember the Liga nine.
I agree. I just remember the Liga nine. Like it just completely envelops your palate. It coats your mouth and coats your mouth. And it's just like, there are few cigars like [00:21:00] that. Like I, I so vividly remember that feeling and this, the finish is. Like many new world cigars, to me, it's not really as immersive and memorable as the Ligonage.
I was about to
**Bam Bam:** say, it's a dry, which I think that is a mark of a pretty complex cigar, that type of a finish. I don't mind it. Because you can enjoy what you're drinking. with the cigar that's got a drier finish. Exactly.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** I think that because of the finish on the cigar, our pairings can be amazing.
**Grinder:** I think, I think also for me, this is a unique cigar experience right now for me because I've never had this Vittola and I do, I do recall a significant number of differences.
I think Versus
**Gizmo:** the Toro that you smoke?
**Grinder:** Yeah, I think the Toro I have, I typically smoke is a lot This is smooth, but it's, it's, that, that is smoother. It's creamier. I think the cocoa, the reminiscence of the cocoa is stronger in, in the Toro than this one. And maybe I'm trying to grab for it a little bit.
[00:22:00] Um, but you know, it's unique. I like it. It's earthy, very earthy. You, you might use the word mineral. Mineral forward a bit. Yeah. I think I get that too. Um, uh,
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** yeah. Do you find you get cocoa notes? Not in the sense of, of chocolate, you know, bittersweet or semi sweet chocolate, but more in
**Bam Bam:** cocoa powder. For me, it was in the first inch of the cigar.
It's dissipated for me.
**Senator:** The funny thing, just smell the foot of the cigar. Yeah. And that's where I feel like I pick up more cocoa than I do at all on my
**Pagoda:** palate. Yeah.
**Bam Bam:** You're right about that. You
**Pagoda:** know,
**Bam Bam:** Absolutely correct. And on the retro, honestly, you'll get, you'll get cocoa at the back end of that retrohale.
**Gizmo:** The retrohale's not as spicy as I was expecting either. No. Which is
**Bam Bam:** nice. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** Very complimentary. So let's talk about mezcal. Chef Ricky is here. We're going to do a little bit of a mezcal deep dive tonight. We have three mezcal expressions. That, uh, that you've brought in. So just give us the elevator pitch on Mezcal.
And give us an Uber discount code for tonight. [00:23:00]
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** We're gonna need it. You know, Giz, as, as I expressed to you and just in full transparency, I was a little nervous about tonight. Um, and it wasn't so much, there's so much to talk about when it comes to Mezcal. There's so much to cover. It's not as simple as tequila.
And tequila is complex, right? To get into it and to appreciate it and get beyond what those original memory, core memories were for many people in college with their first, you know, tequila shot or glass or whatever. Uh, mezcal is very different. It also has somewhat of a stigma, right? Everyone's maybe first time with mezcal, had a worm in it or something or.
**Senator:** Oh, there are core memories with mezcal too. All it took was someone to spill a glass of mezcal at a bar in the city. on my arm and I had no clue what spirit was in that woman's glass. And I just lift my arm and I smell it and it smelled like a campfire. And I was like, Jesus Christ, I'm going to wreak like a campfire the whole rest of the [00:24:00] night.
That was my first experience with mezcal.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** So a lot of that is because of how mezcal is, uh, or the agave is treated. Let's go into the basics. Tequila has to be one agave, blue weber. Mezcal could be made from dozens. of different agaves. Uh, some of the best mezcals that I've enjoyed are oftentimes, uh, blended with different agave dist, uh, distillates.
So, and those are known as, those are known as ensembles or ensembles.
**Senator:** Do they use Blue Weber at all in mezcal or
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** intentionally leave it out? Some do. It's not done often because it's hard, uh, but some have, I definitely have had them. I can't remember the brand, but I definitely did have a mezcal that was, uh, uh, agave also, uh, as one of the distilled.
The still agaves. Uh, but yeah, generally speaking it could be made from dozens of agave. Uh, and some agaves are called different things in different parts of the state, and that's why sometimes, you know, you might have one agave with four different names. So some will say 60 agave. [00:25:00] I just say dozens because some of them are just kind of repeated.
Most of these agave are also wild, right? So one of the ones that we'll be drinking tonight is a, uh, generally speaking that agave is. harvested somewhere between 18 and 22 years. You know, there's folklore and tales out there about some that reach 40 years of age. Um, and that's generally why mezcals cost a little bit more, uh, than, you know, your typical spirit.
That's one of the reasons. Right. So with tequila, we use, uh, brick ovens, right? The best tequilas are, they're using brick ovens, and some even go to use autoclaves, which are a little bit more efficient. Uh, but you always want to stay away from diffuser tequila. And how would you know if it's diffuser tequila?
You won't, because nobody says that they're making diffuser tequila. You just assume the big guys are. Uh, with mezcal, The agave that's harvested is cooked in conical earthen pits over usually what's a local [00:26:00] Oaks or whatnot. And that's why in some mezcals, you find smoky notes, you find a, some smoke on the pallet on the nose.
And. Early on, maybe 10, 15 years ago, the smoke was heavy.
**Gizmo:** And that's what burned the hair off a senator's arm. And
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** removed the dye from his shirt. So, you know, I think ultimately that was probably something that was being done by some of the manufacturers to differentiate themselves from tequila. So people knew they were drinking something different.
Um, now, They don't rely on that as much. There's always some inherent smoke just because of the process in which the agave is cooked. But now there's so much more depth and complexity that comes through, um, that's attributed to the maturity of the agave, how the agave is cooked, the yeast that it ferments with, what it's fermented in, um, and all these things.
And as you're drinking, you'll taste, you know, some of those complex You know, everything from berries and tropical fruit to green [00:27:00] notes and minerality and all of this now aging, when do we get to the drinking?
**Bam Bam:** Not to cut you short, A
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** aging age. Uh, this is the last point with aging personally, I am. Completely against it. And I think any mezcal purist will tell you the same. Uh, you know, when I was thinking of what to bring apart, we wanted to bring an Asia expression. Uh, but I don't even stock it, uh, at the restaurant.
We may have one or two and it's not really anything, um, that. I think highlights what Mescal is about, because like I said, there's, Mescal could be made from so many different agave, you really want that agave to come through, and the aging that happens is somewhat natural in that it happens in the agave and the aging vessel is the earth that that agave is in.
Right. So going to Terroir, one of, one of Senator's favorite topics, [00:28:00] you know, that's where all of that complexity is introduced. The stress out of Gavez, you know, atepistate, you know, what have we experienced in 25 years of life? Imagine what atepistate growing. Somewhere in the deserts of Mexico has experienced from, you know, snow, rain, drought, whatever it is, um, different, you know, whatever altitude it's at, some of these things grow and wild on cliff sides or whatnot.
Uh, it's, it's a stressful environment. That stress creates sugar. That sugar is what we Want to create the spirit and it's going to make something delicious, memorable, and something that we're going to drink now.
**Gizmo:** All right. So let's talk about our first Mezcal tonight. What is this first expression that we have?
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** All right. So we're going to start with Netta. Um, when buying Mezcal, These are things, uh, I tend to look for lots of information on the bottle. Um, you know, so here, this is maguey, [00:29:00] or that's the, the other term used for agave. It's a espadine. Uh, the producer is Tomas Garcia Cruz. Was distilled in March of 2022.
Um, 940 liters produced. ABV on this is 48%. Wow.
**Bam Bam:** The aroma on the nose. is spectacular.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** Isn't it? Yeah. It smells amazing. Berries. Yeah. Right. And this is, I'm glad you said that. It's berries are fresh fruit, wet fruit.
Lord help me Lord help me. But I tell you, this is why I was saying, you know, between the dry finish on the cigar, the earthy notes, the spice, the minerality, this spirit. Is going to bring this, I mean, it's almost like we planned this, you know, and Not saying we didn't, but you know, mascaro and cigars is something we do often.
**Pagoda:** Cheers to you. So,
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** so cheers to you guys. Thanks for joining us. [00:30:00]
**Pagoda:** Cheers, Ricky.
**Bam Bam:** Mmm. Oh, there's a lot to talk about here. Well, that's wonderful. I've never had a spirit that started out so dry through the whole cycle of the sip. It's crazy how dry it is right off the front for me. But the finish is forever long. Very long. Finish is forever. Very long finish.
**Senator:** You're saying dry. I'm getting a
**Bam Bam:** lot of like fresh
**Senator:** fruit.
Yeah, I'm getting,
**Bam Bam:** I'm getting that, but there's a dryness to this spirit for me. I think that dryness is coming from the stick. Yeah, I don't, I
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** don't, I don't, I'm not getting dryness from the spirit. It's uh, it's super juicy, right? And just like kind of makes your salivary glands work. I feel
**Bam Bam:** like I literally just took a bite of a berry.
This is pretty, this is quite the complex drink. Wow.
**Gizmo:** And I love it with the
**Bam Bam:** cigar. I do too.
**Gizmo:** I, I just, you know, I took a sip or two of the Mezcal. We're going back and forth on this. Took a draw. Wow.
**Senator:** Oh yeah. Fantastic. I mean, why I especially like it is just because the cigar is so dry [00:31:00] and so earthy that I feel like this is helping bring out the faint sweetness that's in the cigar that's helping balance it a little bit better for me.
I agree.
**Bam Bam:** What's unique though on the finish, on the very end, it's a little smoky. I get a little bit of smokiness there. Oh yeah,
**Gizmo:** a little bit. I gotta say, it's the, the spirit is so aromatic that, you know, normally when you wanna, when we, when we wanna take the aroma of the spirit, we have to put the glass to our nose.
I can hold this six inches away from my nose and I can already smell how good the spirit is. It's true. It's so aromatic. This is called
**Bam Bam:** Neta? Neta. N E T A. Do you know what region it's made in?
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** This is from the Sierra Azul of Oaxaca. Um Man, we should go
**Bam Bam:** there.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** Just
**Bam Bam:** I mean I'll pick agave. In bare feet, no problem.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** No, no, no. Always back to the feet. They wear boots. Just like that. Um So yeah, for the mashing here, they use a machete and a shredder. [00:32:00] Uh, native yeast and Montezuma cypress wood tanks is where the fermentation happens. Uh, distilled two times in copper pot stills. And how much is this bottle, Ricky? This bottle is about 113 retail.
Now, I'm, it's not to say that mezcal has to be expensive, but if you ever see how the spirit is produced, what the people go through to make it happen, um, you'll appreciate paying for it. And you respect every penny that it costs and. It, it, it becomes not only a duty, but it's something to be proud of that you're buying from a reputable producer where, you know, they're, they're, they're paying, they're paying the people harvesting somewhat respectable wages and, and, and a lot of this stuff is going into, uh, yeah, and this, I don't want to bring this, you know, make this like the Cuba conversation that you guys have had a couple of times, [00:33:00] but yeah, there's a, there's Look, there's there's plenty to read out there.
There's amazing books, amazing podcasts, uh, that cover the spirit. And it goes for days because there's just so much to talk about. So much to talk about.
**Bam Bam:** What I find interesting is you don't need much of this in a sitting session with your cigars. It's really a very rich, robust experience. Just a short pour will last you, for me, it'll last
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** quite a while.
So to your point, in Oaxaca, when you drink mezcal, some of the traditional vessels that drink out of, and you guys know me, I like to drink almost everything I drink out of, uh, just kind of big wine glasses, because I like to let things aerate and then just kind of live with what they're doing, uh, to your, and because mezcal is so aromatic, it just doesn't, You know, I don't feel it needs it.
And in Oaxaca, the vessels get even smaller. So they drink out of copitas, which are small ceramics, squat. You know, it might be an ounce and a half that they hold of liquid. Um, or
**Gizmo:** get your copita out now. I'm
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** ready. Or
**Gizmo:** jicaritas,
**Bam Bam:** jicaras.
**Gizmo:** I
**Bam Bam:** have [00:34:00] 10 jicaritas. What are their names, Bam? I've named them all.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** Or sometimes they drink out of votives, uh, and they're just kind of short and it's, it's kind of cool. So, uh, you guys all know, Ken, shout out to Ken. Um, he recently went to Oaxaca for his birthday this past year on his own.
**Bam Bam:** Alone? Alone.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** And he had the trip of a lifetime. Amazing. Uh, he loves it. So he's sort of introduced me to cigars, you know.
Growing up, I've seen my uncle smoke it. I've had one or two with them. But he was the one that kind of got me into cigars in the city when I lived there. And we just kind of walk all over New York City smoking cigars and because there's nowhere to freaking smoke cigars, right? Yeah. So you just do it by walking around, um, or there's very few places.
Yeah.
**Senator:** Just don't walk through the park. Yeah, I've learned that the hard way. Do you, do they, do they get
**Gizmo:** on you for that?
**Senator:** Oh yeah. Oh, you don't even need like, uh, law enforcement to get on you. I'll never forget, I used to live, um, on the Upper West Side and I'd walk [00:35:00] down, uh, I'd cross Broadway and go down to Riverside Park and I'm walking through there and some random guy on a bicycle just starts screaming at me, Do you know how to smoke in the park?
And I'm like, there's no way this is a thing. And obviously I look it up and mayor Bloomberg had outlawed smoking in the park. So I would walk alongside the park to make sure that I don't upset any New Yorkers. To make
**Bam Bam:** sure the smoke was
**Senator:** bellowing
**Bam Bam:** into
**Senator:** the park. No. And then I basically got relegated to like sitting in the median of Broadway on a bench.
Bench next to a homeless guy to smoke my cigars. I mean, it was brutal. We need a photo of that. I would love to see that. That's where I
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** left the city and here I am. So the way I smoked with Ken, I, at the time we both lived in East Harlem and the restaurant was in Tribeca and we'd walk seven miles from the restaurant to our homes.
He lived a block away from me. Uh, and we, you know, it'd take about two and a half hours. So we could smoke anywhere from two to three cigars. And it was just a great way to decompress and then just get some exercise in and get some good cigars as well.
**Pagoda:** It was seven miles square to bed. [00:36:00] Yeah. I don't think I've walked that in my life.
**Senator:** I mean, you do it when you have no choice. I used to do the same thing. I'd walk from, uh, 107th and Broadway down to Times Square and I'd come back and have cigars along the way and it was a great time. I
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** think as long as Pagoda doesn't walk backwards, he'll be okay.
**Senator:** That's
**Gizmo:** a reverse
**Bam Bam:** shank, by the way.
**Gizmo:** I'm hurting. Well done.
**Bam Bam:** I love this Mezcal.
**Gizmo:** The Mezcal is incredible. I do love this. Pagoda, Grindr, what do you
**Grinder:** guys think of the Mezcal? I love the mezcal. I'm getting, um, I think the aroma and then the finish is very floral that, that's kind of, I think it just blended well with the cigar on the finish to, to, uh, Gizmo's point, it, it changes the flavor of the cigar a little bit because there's so much that envelops your palate and usually you mentioned juicy.
Yeah, it's, there's definitely some salivary reaction there. And the, and, you know, once you get that. Once, once you're doing that on your [00:37:00] palate, I think it just changes all the different taste buds and receptors in some way. But yeah. I've
**Senator:** just got to
**Grinder:** say,
**Senator:** the pairing is fantastic. It is. This is helping the cigar tremendously.
Like, if I ever smoke this cigar again, this is exactly what I want to pair with it because it's just, and I appreciate a drier cigar, but it's so dry. that it needs a spirit like this to help you get those faint sweet notes. I love this pairing.
**Pagoda:** And the long finish, you know, you're so right about the long finish.
I don't know whether this is right of me to say it, but I feel a little bit of heat just going down into my, Oh yeah, that's warm too much. It's really like you feel that and it's been This overall has been a very, very pleasant experience.
**Gizmo:** I'm finding, I'm finding the pairing, I think, driven mostly by the Mezcal to be incredibly relaxing.
Oh yeah. You know, the spirit is very complex. It's making your brain and your palate work. The cigar, obviously [00:38:00] that this kind of rhythmic meditative thing that we do with that, I'm feeling like my, my heart rate has dropped so much, even since we hit record, just because of how nice everything is kind of triggering the
**Bam Bam:** senses.
Exactly. And when I think Grindr is on the money. The moment you take a sip, your salivary glands are triggered and activate activated. That does keep you occupied. It's really quite nice.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** Yeah, it almost creates a creamy, a creamy effect for the cigar, right? It gives you, it gives you, uh, just some flavor carriers because otherwise the cigar is dry on its own, but after the mezcal and you kind of let that mezcal finish.
Finish and then you get into your cigar and you're getting more of the nuanced notes in the cigar that you would probably otherwise find difficult to get.
**Pagoda:** It's absolutely enhancing the experience like for the cigar like it's enhancing the cigar more so than the other way around. Yeah, that's fantastic.
**Gizmo:** So for any listener out there who enjoys tequila or is kind of going on the journey if they've started with us years [00:39:00] ago when you came on two years ago, or they're just starting now in Agave, if you were to point to one fairly accessible mezcal that someone could go to most large liquor stores tomorrow, and pick up to pair well with the cigar of their choice.
What would that mezcal be, or that brand, or how would you, what, what direction would you point them in?
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** Right now, I, I, something I'm seeing a lot in liquor stores, and of course, you know, if you're in New York City, you have Astro Wine and Spirits there, you could find almost every bottle we carry, almost, uh, and you'll definitely find the largest selection.
But in most places, Big box liquor stores, you'll probably find Mezcal Vago. That's V A G O. Ray Compero is another one. The Ray Compero Espadin was probably one of the first Mezcals I introduced you guys to. I remember that one. And you'll enjoy that one. We do have a Ray Compero tonight, but it's the Tepestate.
Um, And there is a brand now that I see a lot, Siete [00:40:00] Misterios. They do a good job as well. They have an olla de barro, which is a clay pot distilled mezcal. Espadina, that's delicious. So yeah, I'd say, you know, try them. Sometimes you'll find a Del Maguey. Del Maguey Vida is more cocktail. Uh, folks, so if you see a Del Mar Gay, they usually come in green bottles.
Uh, the Vita, V I D A, uh, that's usually used for cocktails. Not saying it's bad on its own. I mean, in a pinch, it's delicious. But it makes a great mezcal margarita, especially. But they do have other bottles. I was gonna say Vitolas. They do. They do have other, other bottles or other, uh, Agave distillates, uh, that are mezcal, but other, other types of agave that they bottle that are delicious.
Um, and then they do a couple of pechugas. So I'll get, I'll go quickly into pechugas. Uh, that is when, so mezcal and Oaxaca, mezcal is Oaxacan moonshine, right? It's Mexican moonshine in general. Uh, so what [00:41:00] we're drinking is oftentimes what people are drinking in, in their homes. You know, you go to the mountains of Oaxaca and, and in the Palenques, as they're called in Mexico, uh, families are distilling these, uh, wonderful juices that we're drinking.
Uh, and it's their ceremonial graduation, birth, wedding, whatever it is, you know, this is what they're, this is what they're taking down. Um, And every
**Bam Bam:** family has a different twist, I'm guessing.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** Mm hmm. Different twist. Uh, yeah, it could be either how, you know, the distillation pot, you know, it could be stainless steel, which is not very likely, copper or clay.
Clay is sometimes one of my favorites because that's when you really get a lot of petrichor, a lot of minerality. You get a lot of, uh Do you listen to
**Gizmo:** our podcast?
**Bam Bam:** Here's a question for you. Do they hang things? Yes. In the rooms where they distill, so like unusual, what you're getting to almost crazy [00:42:00] things.
Oh, I've heard some of this. I have too. And I'm, I'm in disbelief. What you're getting to
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** is the pechuga.
**Bam Bam:** The
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** pechuga. All right. So I like that word. This is a pechuga is Spanish for breast. And traditionally pechuga being chicken or turkey breast is what was used. And what happens is in the distillation pot, they tend to hang a combination of spices, fruits, and protein, right?
And what this all does as the, the, the spirit is distilling, it adds mouthfeel. It adds body, infuses flavors, aroma, and not, you know, not to say that it tastes like chicken or it tastes like venison because there are some venison petrugas or rabbit petrugas, otherwise known as conejo. Um, but. You definitely, you know, whether it's creamy or oilier, or things along that nature, you definitely get some of those.
It imparts the character of whatever's hanging
**Bam Bam:** in there.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** That's interesting. Uh, and that's typically done for ceremonies, you know, so whether, like I said, a birth, a wedding, you know, not. Ceremonies as you know, [00:43:00] whatever, but, uh, that's when it's done. And, and those, those, those distillates are cherished and kind of put away and given away as gifts.
Uh, now to my point about the Delma Gay earlier, they do have a Serrano Ham Petruga. And that's pretty freaking fun. I love ham and cheese sandwich. Yeah. So I've had a few pechugas. I've had a few pechugas from Conejo to Venison to Serrano ham. Uh, and then I put you guys, uh, maybe a year ago at this point, I remember Rooster gave me that freaking Sir Winston.
That blew my mind.
**Gizmo:** Great cigar. Cuban A. Chutman.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** Oh yeah. Listener out there. I think it was 2004 or 2014. I couldn't remember. Yeah, wait,
**Senator:** wait till he gives you the Opus Dubai from BAM.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** Correct. You're gonna love that. Actually, I might win one before that happens. But, uh, yeah, it's, it was, uh, You guys killed that bottle.
You loved it. [00:44:00] Um, and I couldn't get another one, but that was a
**Bam Bam:** our
**Gizmo:** apologies.
**Bam Bam:** I don't apologize.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** That was a Cinco Sentidos Mole Pechuga, and this one was super special because it actually carried notes and nuances of a traditional mole, pumpkin seed, cocoa, and I really wanted that to go with the cigar, but this is pairing just the
**Pagoda:** Oh, this is apparent fantastic.
**Gizmo:** So before we move into the second, let's do our formal liquor rating on Nata, our first mezcal tonight. Bam Bam, you're up.
**Bam Bam:** Uh, I'm going to give this a nine. I think the complexity, there's for me a touch of dryness that I experienced all the way through the sip. There is a little fruitiness on the finish and there's a touch of smokiness that is quite a complex experience.
Grindr. Nine, nine
**Grinder:** for me as well. It's different from anything I've ever tasted in my life. Let me put it that way. Um, the flavors that I'm getting, the sensations in my mouth, the tingly, the fire, the mellowness that [00:45:00] kind of cools down after a while but still lingers, it's fantastic.
**Pagoda:** I think for me it's a 10 because I think it completely came and just enhanced the cigar immediately.
You know, I got a really good, uh, you know, when it comes to, by the way, I'm not a big tequila or a mezcal drinker. I've, uh, uh, you know, been fortunate enough to have known Ricky and then, uh, we've had some tasting at Ineo and I've tried a few mezcals here and there. Uh, but, um, the experience I'm, uh, you know, getting right now has just been fantastic.
Um, Very, very flavorful. Very, very, it's, you're so right. It's very, very forward, like on the nose and then it's, it's just got a very pleasant feeling. And I think it just enhances the cigar immediately. And for that, I think it's a definitely a 10 for me.
**Senator:** Senator. I can't believe I'm going to say this, but I'm also at a 10.
I, for me, this is one of the most enjoyable Mezcals I've ever had. I was not expecting just how [00:46:00] much fresh fruit and kind of just vibrant flavors that I get from this Mezcal that the smokiness is so faint just on the finish. And I think I've said this to Ricky before, you know, for me, especially after my traumatic Mezcal experience, I've been just searching to find Mezcal that is.
Sweeter than it is smoky and see the full range that Mezcal really has. And I think that this is a perfect expression for someone like myself. That's in pursuit of something like that. I think this has dramatically enhanced this experience I'm having with the cigar. I can think of other cigars that I would pair this with, like the thing that immediately popped to mind.
The, the Padron 1964 Menarche. Great cigar. I have one tonight,
**Gizmo:** actually. I'm going to smoke one after we're done.
**Senator:** It's, it's like a, a sweeter, more Berry forward version of an Exclusivo. It's a bit earthier too, for me, the Menarche, just to touch more than Exclusivo. Oh, I feel [00:47:00] the complete opposite of that.
Yeah.
**Gizmo:** Exclusivo is definitely earthier.
**Senator:** Menarche is a little closer to Torpedo. So for me, that would pair really well with this Mezcal and, you know, the price point, I think that's something, you know, you get a little sticker shock, you hear a hundred and something dollars for Mezcal. This is so complex. I get why it's priced as a premium spirit.
So for me, it's a 10.
**Gizmo:** I'm, I thought I might've been the only 10 on this out of all the Mezcals we've tried with Ricky. I mean, this is. My favorite by far. I think the way it's pairing with the cigar tonight, I think it's amazing. I think it's enhanced it like Pagoda said. And I think also the other side of the coin that we do here on this podcast, I think that this would do very well with a really, you know, good Cuban cigar.
I think this would kind of cover the gamut of the various cigars that we do. I don't think it would overpower a good Cuban cigar. So, uh, for me, it's a 10 for sure. Really
**Senator:** versatile.
**Gizmo:** Yeah,
**Senator:** absolutely. One last thing there, cause it's a good point. I agree that it would pair really well with a number of [00:48:00] Cuban cigars and what this deserves credit for is, you know, these are all higher proof spirits and.
I think generally, you know, higher proof stuff, most of the time we feel can overpower the cigar and even though, yeah, I mean, even some new world cigars, you think of like a really high proof bourbon, I mean, some of them, you barely can taste the cigar after you've taken a sip of it. But I think with this, which is like remarkable to me is we all talked about, it has a really long finish.
Like it's a full bodied spirit, but yet it feels smooth. It feels like it's never overpowering. It's never fighting to remind you that it's there. It's, it just delivers so much flavor in such an accessible way.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. Honestly, what I would smoke with this from the Cuban catalog, I would definitely do a schwa supreme with the cigar.
It's a great call out. And, and almost the diametric opposite of that, the RAS, specially selected, that those two would do fantastic with this particular spirit. Because I
**Gizmo:** think both of the, the [00:49:00] common notes of both of those cigars, RAS is a little bit more earthy, you know, a little more citrus or floral out of the schwa.
I think you're getting all of that in this excellent expression of mezcal.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** So now for those who retrohale. If you could all just know that that's a controversial
**Gizmo:** statement, by the way, just don't look at Senator. Go ahead.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** Now that you have some of this mescal in your system and you know, and it's going through you through your nasal passages and it's on your palate, try that retrohale now.
And you see some of these like sweeter nuances in this cigar come through even more.
**Senator:** I just have to note, none of the big retrohalers in the room seem to call out anything different on the retrohale as they've been
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** going through this experience. It
**Senator:** definitely
**Gizmo:** is
**Senator:** creamier. There's no
**Gizmo:** question about it.
Yeah, I
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** agree. It's Cuban esque almost, so maybe it's the Honduran tobacco hitting a little bit more now. Uh, but there's definitely a change here in the cigar for me. But I do love this mezcal. I think it's, it's, uh, it covers, it's umami. You know, there's sweetness, [00:50:00] there's some savory, there's some vegetal notes.
Like, to me, it's covering everything, and that's what's great. It's, it's this dance on your palate, and that's what makes mezcal fun, is that there's not a whole lot of spirit, if any, that's gonna do that for you. So when people have mezcals, especially for the first time, they have this holy shit experience, right?
And that's what happens to someone like Ken, who had, he had a flight. at the restaurant and the guy just started buying books and going to Mezcal tastings and going to Oaxaca and, and, and, and let me tell you, meeting the people, meeting the families behind it, it's, it, it just, it brings the experience full circle.
And you guys know that all too well, because you've gone to Cuba and you've seen the rollers and the history that's there. It's a very similar thing, you know, with Mezcal, you know, whereas most tequilas are at the 40%, uh, ABV level. Almost every good mezcal is going to be at least 45. And that may turn some people off, but this isn't drinking like a It doesn't drink hot to mezcal, right?
And like
**Bam Bam:** I [00:51:00] said earlier, you don't need much. You got to sit, you can savor it. Yeah.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** So, and also for the price point, right. We're not drinking this like a, you know, we're not having two, three ounce pours at a time. No, we're not having, uh, you know, Old fashioned glasses with ice and then a ton of the juice like this is something you have a couple sips You know, maybe sometimes like a bit more than a couple
**Bam Bam:** So if you see someone putting a chip of ice in this in the club Will you launch yourself from the opposite end of the club and tackle them?
**Senator:** Yeah What will you do to Gizmo when he?
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** Listen if they bought the bottle They do whatever the hell they want. Got it. So I should hide my ice cube. It's just not around you though. It's just, it's gonna change it. It's gonna, you know. And thankfully not, you know, I'll say maybe not a whole lot cause it is a hot, you know, it is a high proof spirit.
Um, but yeah, it's, it's gonna like, what makes it beautiful is its intensity. But it's still soft. It still delivers that intensity soft, right? It's not shy about what it's giving you. It's giving you all of what [00:52:00] it has. And then by putting ice in there, you're just kind of, uh, telling it, like, slow down. Um, and I just, I don't think it needs that, you know, especially with this cigar.
**Gizmo:** So boys, the formal liquor rating on the Netta, our first Mezcal tonight, is a 9. 6.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah, that was a
**Gizmo:** great rating.
**Bam Bam:** Very good score.
**Gizmo:** And a great mezcal.
**Bam Bam:** Oh, delicious.
**Gizmo:** So boys, what are you thinking about the halfway point here of the Liga Privada T52 and Corona
**Bam Bam:** Viva? For me, it's getting better and better.
**Gizmo:** I agree.
I'm enjoying the cigar.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. And honestly, the spirit as of, as many people have mentioned, it's helping it along. But for me, the cigar is getting just a bit sweeter now and then like a dark for me, a dark, dark chocolate way for me.
**Senator:** I agree with that. I think the second half has definitely picked up the sweet part of it, which is unusual profile,
**Bam Bam:** right?
It's usually the opposite as it burned through a cigar. You don't get that very often.
**Senator:** Depends. Yeah,
**Bam Bam:** I'm talking so much I'm still on the first third
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** I
**Senator:** think it's just a seat rooster normally sits there.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** Oh, yeah.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. All right, boys. Let's move into [00:53:00] our second pairing tonight This is La Locura, uh, destilado in Ollas
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** de Barrio.
**Gizmo:** I'm only gonna say the first two words of that.
**Pagoda:** Yeah, we'd like Giz to repeat that, please.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** As I was reading the names on these labels coming in today, I was like, oh my, Giz is gonna be so happy I'm there.
**Bam Bam:** Absolutely right. Well, you can do La Locura. Um,
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** yeah, so La, so interestingly enough, La Locura is the craziness, right?
That's the direct translation. But here it's sort of a play on words, uh, because the nickname of the master distiller here is Lalo and Cura in Spanish means cure, right? So, and I kind of wanted to touch on this. Uh, after Senator said what he said about how it kind of felt, you know, it's, it's funny, right?
Like I'm watching someone like Senator, like I've had plenty of drinks with you guys and I see how we all change in the process. And the opposite is almost happening here as we're drinking this, we're getting almost bright eyed and becoming more aware. Like it's almost like the mezcal is awakening. It's [00:54:00] awakening our senses.
There's no doubt about it. Yeah. Right. So there's this whole thing that like mezcal is good for you because of the, the wild, the, the wild yeast and the fermentation and just, The whole process that it goes through and, and the artisanality behind it. There's so many pro and prebiotics in it. And, you know, I mean, mescal and walk is used as a, as a medicinal cure for so many things.
You know, you put some on a baby's chest who may have a cold, or you put some on the, on the baby's gums, or it's always for the baby. There's a botanical, botanical nature to this. It seems, yeah. Thousand percent. Yeah. Um, so. La Locura, you know, directly translated as the craziness, but here it's Lalo, the master distiller, and Cura, which is cure.
Um, so this is one of my favorite master distillers here, uh, or producers rather. And these are some of his laws. Mezcal must be at least 45 percent ABV. No batch can be more than 2000 liters. The label must [00:55:00] always have the mezcalero's name. The agave must be cooked in underground pits. And that's pretty much all, all mezcal, but there are definitely some companies or brands that are sort of skewing, messing around with those things.
And that's what we try to stay away from.
**Gizmo:** I got a question for you guys. What are you getting on the nose? I was about to tell you.
**Bam Bam:** So I have, for me, it's a very mild, elegant aroma. Don't think I'm crazy, but it's like buttery, salty thing for me. I was going to say,
**Gizmo:** I have a crazy note. It almost smells like a little bit like yogurt to me on the nose.
Like I'm getting a little bit of like a dairy type of
**Bam Bam:** Absolutely. Lactic. Lactic type of aroma. It's more savory than sweet for sure. For me it's salted butter a little bit.
**Grinder:** Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. On the nose. I think it's both. It could be. Yeah. It's like a melted butter. And, and a, uh, a cultured cream.
**Senator:** Yes. I, I think Grindr hit the nail on the head.
That's exactly what I get.
**Pagoda:** Melted butter and cultured
**Bam Bam:** cream. And it's a very clean sip.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** Yes.
**Bam Bam:** [00:56:00] Right? It's almost palate cleansing for me. So, it's
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** not as berry forward. No. But there's still some berry present or fruitiness, but much drier,
**Bam Bam:** uh, in my opinion. So I get less of a, I'm sorry, less of a smoky finish for me on this one than the first one.
Just absolutely. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** I'm kind of missing the smokiness a little bit on this one. You don't get any on the finish? No, a very, very
**Bam Bam:** faint, less than the first expression for sure. For me. Really? Yeah. Yeah. I
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** get like buttery tropical
**Grinder:** fruit. The buttery. is so intense, it, it, my mouth feels like I just ate a toast, a piece of toast with butter on it.
Correcto. It's like, it's like smooth. Yeah. Yeah.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** Really good butter.
**Gizmo:** And it's interesting how this expression is changing my, what I'm getting off the cigar when I draw the cigar. Like I'm getting a little bit more earth now than I was that, that sweetness that I was getting before, um, I'm actually, I feel like this, this is [00:57:00] a little bit less of an oomph comparative to the cigar.
**Bam Bam:** I get the opposite effect. I'm getting more of a salty finish on my cigar right after taking a sip of this, just a touch of salt. Um, the sweetness is still there, but it's dissipated. It's in the background with the spirit. For me. So
**Senator:** it's really funny that you brought this particular Mezcal. I had a listener write me about a week ago, begging us to do Mezcal on the podcast.
And ironically, we had already set up to have you come here. And funnily enough, in his note, he says, I'm a huge Mezcal fan. Been to Oaxaca twice, visited a few, uh, Palenques. My favorites are La Lacura, uh, and El, uh, Holgorio? El hororio, yes. El hororio. Have you, have you, uh, you had that
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** one? Yes. It was good? We, we have many of, of their expressions at the restaurant.
Um, that was probably one of my first loves. Uh, not to say that I don't love it as much, but, I don't know, I [00:58:00] might be a hundred, Something mescal's in, uh, so it's just something I need to revisit for sure. Uh, but no, Ejogorio was one of those mescals that, uh, I mean, their, their bottles are sexy. They're beautiful, but I don't find them as fruity as the mescals that are coming out now.
They're more in line with La Locura, uh, which is no surprise why he's named them both. Like, it's not as fruity as Neta is. No, definitely not. Or Neta was. Yeah. No, no. Um, but it's a delicious mezcal nonetheless. But, and, and, and, and that's what you'll discover as you embark in this mezcal journey is you'll start finding agaves that, uh, you enjoy more than others, or maybe distillation methods that you start looking for.
Um, and that's part of the journey, you know, it's, it's like.
**Bam Bam:** For me, for this particular, the La La Cura, I would have this as a pre dinner drink for me because it's savory. Kind of help my palate kind of get ready for a meal. That's me. I think [00:59:00] that's a great call. Yeah. Prior to dinner. Yeah. I would do the opposite.
I would. It feels rich. I'm looking for something
**Grinder:** fruitier
**Bam Bam:** and sweeter
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** after dinner.
**Grinder:** Yeah. Usually. There's, there's a richness to it that I, that I almost
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** So you're a dessert guy and Grindr's a cheese guy. Correct. Right? Yeah, cheese and
**Bam Bam:** that's it. Cheese and what else? I was actually going to say What else usually comes with cheese?
Dried fruit. Correct.
**Gizmo:** I thought you were going to say wine. I wasn't even going dry fruit. Fresh fruit too. That's wet, isn't it? Wet fruit.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** Go ahead, Grindr. You were saying something.
**Grinder:** Sorry, I was taking another swig. The richness that I have in, with the mouthfeel. It, it, I would, I would think it's kind of that sweet, smooth, creamy, like dessert.
That's why, you know, as it's, there's a richness that I want kind of as like a final hurrah, you know, the final, the, the ultimate, the ending for, for a meal.
**Senator:** I also think this is something I would have with dinner. Yeah, I agree. Because it's not [01:00:00] like, you know, this blast of like sweet or fruit notes that would detract from a savory meal.
I feel like this would balance and work well with a savory meal that you're having.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** Something super meaty and rich, a wonderful steak that's maybe been dry aged and you get a little of that funk in there. Oh yeah. Oh dude. That's right. And you take a bite and you finish off with a sip of this. Yeah, you might have to give this pot a R rating.
**Grinder:** There's definitely some of that funk that
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** goes to it. No, and, and you know what, that funk in mezcal or in other agave distillates, especially ricea, that's something that as you start to, you know, appreciate what we're drinking, you'd look for and you want, uh, cause that funk is just complexity, you know, and it, and it's, and you start thinking about, well, what's this yeast, you know, what's, what's in the ambient air and, you know, what's, what's going on at this, at this Palenque.
**Gizmo:** How many dead rabbits
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** are in
**Gizmo:** there? So Ricky, how much is this bottle of mezcal?
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** This is about 149 bottle. [01:01:00] Okay. Um, and you know what, it's actually perfect right in the center. I'm sorry. I'm going back to the flavor. You know, we just came off this like berry forward, super juicy spirit. And now we're coming into this La Locura, which is a little bit drier, a little bit richer and sort of lactic and, and, and flavor.
Uh, and then when we get to the Tepistate, you guys are going to just See that? Frickin We're gonna get into a fight tonight. Yeah. No, it's the complete opposite. It just mellows you out. You feel great and yeah, it's
**Bam Bam:** I'm truly enjoying myself tonight. This is a special experience to get a sampling like this with our cigar.
Yeah, this is great. Very, very rare.
**Gizmo:** And I think like Senator said, I think we got lucky with the, with the pairing tonight. I think this cigar specifically is pairing very nicely with what the Mezcal so far is offering us. Obviously we'll see how we do with the third one, but the first two have, uh, have both been home runs with the cigar.
[01:02:00] Absolutely. Cheers to you and your, uh, connoisseur corner palate over there, Chef Ricky.
**Senator:** What's the, um, ABV on this? 49. 2. 49.
**Gizmo:** 2. All right boys, let's do the formal liqueur rating now on the La La Quota. Lucora?
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** Lucura.
**Gizmo:** Lucura.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** Lucura. Lucura. There's a U in there.
**Gizmo:** I have a U on my thing here. I just can't fucking pronounce it.
You're saying Lucora.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** You know the U is one of the one letters that sound like in Spanish as it does in English. So, La Lucura. Yeah, so just try to speak English, kids.
**Gizmo:** Alright boys, let's do the formal licorating now on the La Lucura.
**Bam Bam:** Mezcal.
**Gizmo:** Bam Bam, you're up.
**Bam Bam:** So I'm having a hard time with the ratings here.
Uh, I almost would like to have waited until I tried all three because I'm having a tough time gauging. Because now after having this, I know I can't change my score, but I'd give the Neta a 10. And this a nine, but I'm at a nine here with this guy. This is deliciously savory. For me, buttery on the nose and a bit [01:03:00] salty.
Um, a touch of smokiness on the finish, but really savory to the palate. Delicious. Delicious. A different expression than Annetta.
**Gizmo:** Grinder.
**Grinder:** I agree with Bam's, um, you know, stance on that. If I were to kind of calibrate across all of them so far, all two of them so far, I wouldn't give this. a nine. Uh, it's, I'm giving it a nine, but if I, if I were to index them, you know, if I were to rank them, the first one definitely, you know, the first one was, was more unique.
Yeah. It was like, like I said, something I never had before. This one, I taste more tequila ish. Correct. It's like a buttery tequila. It's like a buttery, uh, Blanco in a way. And, and, and that's probably not. That's a fair call out. Yeah, and so, which is great, uh, but the other one is just so, so unique and rounded out.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** Guys, I'm not mad between a nine or a ten. No, they're both kind of awesome. It's a highly complex spirit [01:04:00] here. And yeah, I mean, it's, it's great. I don't, yeah.
**Senator:** This is like the octagon here when we go through ratings and just buckle up, wait till we get to the third one. Knives come
**Pagoda:** out, shanks are had. Pagoda.
Hey, for some of the lizards who've got it right, it's a nine for me. No, but I do think that the, uh, the other mezcal was, uh, definitely for me, uh, uh, a little better. And I don't know whether because of the first one. Well, you gave it a ten. I didn't give it a 10. And so, yeah, no, that's what I said. The rating, we got it right.
And, and from, from that perspective, but you know, uh, grinder, you touched on something. This reminded me of a tequila, which I'd had. And it was one of those, uh, I don't know whether it's the Ocho Blanco. I like the buttery, uh, you know, akin to that, I like, it was just, I was thinking about that more. So then I think, uh, uh, one of the mezcals that we had tried once was very, very different, which was, um, I thought [01:05:00] Clothidoo, it wouldn't be whiskey ish because it was very smoky, um, but this, yeah, uh, very, very nice, yeah.
It's, it's a nine for me.
**Senator:** Senator. I'm, I'm also at a nine. I think this is another one where at 49 percent alcohol, you, you do, you would never guess that. It's smooth, it's buttery, it complements. Most cigars, I think, well, for me, why it wasn't a 10, the Netta just had, the Netta for me has the ability to just dramatically enhance what you're smoking.
And I think the La Locura is very good, but it, it, it kind of just, It's in the passenger seat with the cigar. Um, it never at any point kind of became the, the, the driver or, or the star of the show in the way that the Netta did for me, there's plenty of places that I could definitely see drinking this and slotting this.
And particularly for a cigar that, um, you [01:06:00] know, you in no way want to shake up or detract from the flavor notes that you're pursuing in that. I think this is like a perfect spirit to have that's not going to do that. But if you're looking for something more interesting, that's going to wake us all up in the way that the Netta did.
I think that's why I gave it a 10. So, uh, I'm at a definite nine.
**Gizmo:** So I'm also at a nine. I think, you know, I think this is an excellent mezcal. I think the thing I liked about the Netta comparatively is I felt like the Netta for a companion for a cigar. Similar to what you guys saying. I feel like that's a little bit more of a chameleon.
I feel like we called out the Schwa Supreme. We called out the RAS from Cuba. We're smoking a Nicaraguan cigar from, you know, from Liga Privada tonight. I think the net does a little bit more of a chameleon in that it pierces those, those primary notes of each of those cigars, where I think. This Mezcal is excellent, but I think it's kind of in its own lane.
Yeah. Like you just said, it's in the passenger seat and you want to pair to the Mezcal, not the other way around with this one. [01:07:00] I think the net is just a little bit more open ended as far as what you're going to smoke with it.
**Bam Bam:** I do think both are surprising when you take that first sip, it catches you off guard because that's so unique and I'm not a Mezcal guy.
I will be now. They're both really, they're very unique.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** Let me tell you guys, sitting here. If it's your first time here in this podcast, and you, you, you may be somewhat leery about it. These guys really know what they're talking about. The words you guys are fucking using, it makes me so proud. Pierce, pierce, like some of the, the adjectives being called, you know, piercing, um, for the neta, right?
Like, and I think this is, this is the big, now let me remind you guys that they're both Distilled from the same agave. Right, so this is what makes mezcal so, right, they're both espadine, right? But they taste so different. [01:08:00] They're both high quality mezcals. They're both, you know, uh, minimal lot sizes.
They're both hyper focused. Um, but going to the net, and I think why some of you guys, if, if I were to give someone right, and this is why you had it first. They're, they're one and only mescal. The netta is going to find something for someone. Right. So maybe you like some of those sweeter, fruity notes, or maybe you like more lactic notes.
Some of the lactic notes are present in Netta, but they're not as present as they are in the Lata. Yeah. La Lata. Yeah. Um, the la the la Lata is, dare I say, more focused, right? Where maybe it's not pointing out every single, uh, sense or, or flavor on your palette, uh, like the Netta does. but that doesn't make it any less delicious.
It's just a little bit more focused. Um, and the way you said how the la locura is more, uh, of a [01:09:00] passenger versus the neta driving the experience, right? I, I think for the neta, maybe someone may feel like it took over the cigar a little bit, but la locura was there side by side with it, you know? Um, and you know, it, this, this, The way you guys are describing this, I mean, it's, it is just fucking amazing information.
This is all your fault, by the way. Thanks to you. I wanted to tell you, this is all
**Gizmo:** because of you. So boys, the formal liquor rating tonight on the La La Cora is a 9. 0, flat 9. So we're doing well so far. We're doing well so far. So what are you guys thinking about the cigar as we come into the end of the second third?
Going into the last third here.
**Grinder:** I mean, all honesty, I'm not, I'm not that enthused as I would have hoped about the cigar. It's kind of flat. It's a little flattened out for me. There's not, it's monolithic. There's not much change. Some of the notes that I think I recall and reminisce about that I seek for in this, you know, this line is, [01:10:00] is just not as apparent.
Uh, so it's. It's, it's trending, it's leveled out and it's level, it's at a level, it's already at a respectable level, but it's not where I want it to be.
**Pagoda:** You know what's really interesting, um, is that, uh, you know, the Liga 9, I remember, like, when you had it in the initial years, or like, five years ago, seven years ago, it, they tasted just so different, and I'm wondering with the T 50, because I never really pursued T 52s, I had once, and I prefer the 9, and I, you know, stuck to that, um, I'm wondering whether something's changed either in terms of, in the T 52?
Yeah. Al also, no, because I don't know. Oh, Steve Saka left . Yeah, Steve Saka. Oh, that's true. You know, so we, we don't know like Yeah, whether they're really descriptive of the original T 50 twos or around five or seven years ago, whether it's the wintered to the tobacco or the area or, or some blending decision.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. And the pallets changed.
**Pagoda:** Yeah, I was, our pallets have changed as well. Of
**Bam Bam:** course. I will say that. [01:11:00] Um. If we weren't drinking this incredible spirit tonight, I don't know if I would like this cigar as much. I think it's real, it's relying on other factors, and if I have to look at the cigar for what it is, it's not exactly standing on its own.
It's not a leader. No. It's not a leader. Like he mentioned the Liga 9, that thing has legs and it's on its own. And whatever you're drinking with, it's complimenting it. It's not lifting it like the mezcal is tonight, my opinion.
**Senator:** Yeah, I agree. I think, you know, grinder saying it's monolithic. I'm, I'm bored with this cigar.
Like I'm not getting enough distinct and interesting notes. It hasn't changed much. I liked the second third more than I did the first because I think I got some more of those sweet notes that better balanced against the aggressive earthiness I was getting from the cigar. None of it is doing enough to keep me all that interested.
You know, at this point, like I'd be [01:12:00] perfectly fine to put this cigar down and just drink plenty of this mess. I totally agree with that. That's, that's a problem with the cigar. The cigar,
**Bam Bam:** but it works well with the mezcal.
**Senator:** It does. So if I had to smoke this again, I would actually pair it with mezcal. Yeah.
But it's sad that the mezcal is the star and the cigar is not. And it's not because the mezcal is overpowering the cigar. No, it's just because the cigar is not complex enough, not interesting enough, and the mezcal is, and that's what we're also seeking from any cigar that we're smoking.
**Gizmo:** I think the thing that disappoints me with this cigar is how it peaked at that halfway point.
Yeah. Kind of rose to that halfway point, and instead of staying there or climbing from there, it took a dive. That's true. You know, and it's, it's definitely gotten, to use your word, boring, to use your word, monolithic. It's not awful. It's not bad. No, no. bad cigar. No. It's just, I think at this price point, being at the higher end of what, you know, Drew Estate Liga Privada offers, You know, it should be better than it is right now.
14 you said? [01:13:00] Yeah, I think I got these for about 14, yeah.
**Grinder:** It doesn't taste like a T 52 to me. It doesn't, it doesn't. It's unusual. No,
**Pagoda:** I don't remember it being this way. And you know, like, I was somewhat excited about it because I thought it'd be very, a lot more cocoa forward. And then I don't even mind a little bit of the pepper, the black pepper spice, which you get.
If it's balanced and it comes across in the right way, but it's just not delivering at all.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** It is a super short finish. And so Ligas for me early on in my cigar journey, uh, was something that I grabbed because I think we all kind of had that point where I'll speak for myself. I just kind of like anything in life, right?
You assume that something is more expensive, it's going to be better. Uh, and you know, buying cigars as one offs and brick and mortars in New York City, you know, between the markups and the taxes, the pricing gets a little ridiculous. Um, so. I remember grabbing a Liga 9 and a T 52 and I always liked the Liga 9 a lot more than the T 52.
Absolutely. And, and [01:14:00] I, I agree it's sort of leveled off. Um, I, I'm still enjoying the retrohale, but it hasn't changed much. I agree with that. But I do enjoy the retrohale more.
**Pagoda:** I think the really good thing to, uh, about this cigar is the construction's good. The smoke output is pretty good. The burn line is great.
Yeah.
**Grinder:** So for the listener. It's hard to see across the room. There's a, there's a layer of smoke. There's a haze over chef's head right now.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** Yeah. I mean, three feet of snow outside. The cigar is perfect.
**Pagoda:** But nothing like the experience with Liga nine and Senator's garage. We couldn't see each other.
**Bam Bam:** That was an awesome night, by the way.
**Senator:** I'll just one thing on the construction. Liga nine being really well constructed like this looks, but to me, that smoke was so Effortless. It was effortless like a padrone where I don't remember having to relight it. I don't remember feeling like at any point it was burning a little funny and I was having to draw much more [01:15:00] aggressively to keep it burning the way a cigar should and that I want it.
And I've had to pay a lot of attention to this cigar. I have too. And it's honestly been frustrating. It's like, I'm enjoying this experience so much. Um, I'm so in on the mezcal and I'm just constantly looking at the cigar and, and at some point or another, either, either having to relight it or aggressively draw the cigar to kind of keep it going in the way that I want it to.
So. I, I would say the construction on this is not as good as the Liga 9. I think it looks good. There's something about the way, uh, maybe this was rolled that it's just, it's not an effortless smoke, which is what it should be.
**Bam Bam:** All good points. Very accurate, honestly.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** I think it really comes back to the wrapper being so thick.
It almost feels sandpaper ish like, like a very fine. Yeah. And the
**Bam Bam:** binder and filler seemed
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** very light. Yeah. Yeah. And even to your point about, you know, just that intense draw that's, that's really the only way I'm able to extract some [01:16:00] flavor. Without that, it's just,
**Senator:** yeah, we're like the league of nine. I could take the tiniest puff and you were just, there was so much smoke and so much flavor.
And like you just said, Ricky, it's like with this, you have to take a big draw. Just to try to get flavor, which is the opposite of the Liga 9.
**Pagoda:** You know, you know what Bam had mentioned in the beginning is like, I think the Liga 9 had that little glistening look. It's a spray, buddy. It's that spray. Smoke enhancing spray.
**Gizmo:** All right, boys, let's move into our third mezcal tonight. Ricky, what do we have here?
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** So we're drinking a Rey Campero de Pistate.
**Gizmo:** So we've had other Rey Campero. But I don't think we've had this one, correct? No, you
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** had a Ray Compero Espadin. That was, that was, uh, maybe all of you. Oh, not senators, but for what it's worth, he didn't drink his first Mezcal.
When was this? It was wearing it on his arm. He was wearing it. Oh,
**Bam Bam:** correct.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** I thought it was [01:17:00] you. I was like, I can't imagine that being the
**Bam Bam:** case. Don't you remember when he threw that
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** glass at you? No, this was the first brand of Mezcal that you guys had with me, but you had the Espadin and it made such an impression on you guys that.
That I bought like 12 bottles of, we all split them up. Yep. It was insane.
**Pagoda:** And what's Edine
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** esp? PDE is a type of agave and the
**Gizmo:** first two mezcals we did tonight were edine, correct? Yeah. So what is the agave in this one? Dete. Dete,
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** T-E-P-E-Z-T On the nose. Is this the one with the, is this the one with the rabbit?
No, no, this isn't a pachuca. Uh, normally when you find, uh, fruits and, and, and proteins, um, distilled with the spirit that's, that's known as a pachuca.
**Bam Bam:** Is anyone getting a faint pear on the nuts? What I'm getting? Not faint. Very prominent. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. I think it's a good call out.
**Gizmo:** I'm not, I'm not getting as much out of the aroma as I did on the first two on this one.
I'm getting that faint, that pear on the aroma for me. [01:18:00]
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** So I hear I get some pear. That's a great call out. I get herbaceous notes. This is a lot more herby than the previous two. Uh, dare I say some cilantro. Now that's just on the nose.
**Pagoda:** Yeah, I think, uh, the aroma in the first two were a little more pronounced.
I agree.
**Bam Bam:** I think the herbal call outs right on the money on the taste. On
**Grinder:** the, on the palate, it's definitely, it's like herbal. It's, it's like rosemary and thyme. Yeah. It's like a Paul Simon song. There you go. So it's so good. I think that's right on the money,
**Bam Bam:** honestly.
**Gizmo:** Um, 50 ways to leave your tequila tonight on Lounge Lizards
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** podcast.
**Gizmo:** I have a question for you guys and specifically to you, chef Ricky, but the other guys here, I'm curious. Cause I, I, I think I know my answer to this. If we were to be having mezcal with Ricky tonight for the first time, as opposed to have, you know, having had it in the lounge or, you know, I don't know if it was three, four or five times over the last year, let's say, year and a half.
Do you [01:19:00] think we would have been as prepared or as attuned to what to expect tonight with mezcal? Because I remember those nights and those were like bugs bunny eyes popping out of your head moments of just your palate has never experienced this before. So
**Bam Bam:** for me
**Gizmo:** tonight, I think having Had those experiences actually helping tonight with our, you know, having a deep discussion about it?
**Bam Bam:** I'm going through that revelation right now, like we did in the club. I mean, this is, I've never had any of this. To me, it's very unique. And the awakening of the senses is something I haven't experienced in taking a drink of anything.
**Grinder:** But I think, I think, you know, from the first sip, it was something I've never tasted before, you know?
And even this one, you know, this, it's almost like the herbiness. It's like a, it's like cypress. It's like a cypress scent, you know? It's like, but it's in, it's, it's enveloping my, my mouth. And, uh, that's something I've never had
**Bam Bam:** in a spirit ever, you
**Grinder:** know?
**Bam Bam:** [01:20:00] But going back to what Gizmo said, in the club, from what I remember, you prepared us Beautifully, before we took our first sip, you gave us an entire background, what to expect from the flavor itself.
I felt more prepared and kind of didn't know what to expect, but I was holding onto my seat here. I didn't know anything. You didn't prepare us on anything. So for me, it's more spontaneous tonight compared to the club experience for me. But even then, did you
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** think that it was going to deliver on all those things I was saying?
Or was the disguise just drinking the juice? No, no. You know what I mean? Like he's just. Yeah.
**Grinder:** Yeah. And I think. If I were to compare this to tequila, I think I prefer this flavor profile. Thousand percent. And that happens
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** to a lot of people, right? Like tequila is the gateway, but, and, and, and, you know, look, when you get great tequila and you find those great distillers that are doing their thing, you know, Carlos Camarena, Felipe Camarena, you know, it's, it, it, it, It's delicious juice, but it's all one [01:21:00] agave and the differences are in, in their process and, and it shows.
Um, but mescal is just an entirely, it's so dynamic. It's, it's so unique, but yet it covers almost every single thing that there is to cover on your palate. Um, you know, umami. All right, like there's umami present, uh, all over the place. Like there's parts of your, you know, when, when you take a sip, allow that mezcal to run down the sides of your tongue, right?
Versus just kind of like taking it back into your throat. Just kind of like, you know, push the, the, your tongue to the roof of your mouth and allow it to envelop your, your tongue, run down the sides so that you get everything that there is to get. Um, and it just, Yeah. And going back to, it feels good for you.
I'll tell you what,
**Grinder:** I just did that as you were speaking.
**Speaker 8:** A completely different experience. I think, I think I heard you
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** say wow. [01:22:00] That's like amazing.
**Pagoda:** Pagoda
**Senator:** do it, we
**Pagoda:** want to hear
**Senator:** it. Oh
**Pagoda:** my lord. Oh my lord. No, but you know, uh, I think Ricky, we were talking about this quite some time back and a part of me feels that the great thing about mezcal and especially for a primitive palate like mine, um, it is really flavorful.
There's, and it's recognizable flavors, right? Like, you know, You know, like you mentioned herbal and you got it right. Like it's, you know, the other one was buttery. The other one was berry. It's really interesting that we, the three mezcals we've had today, it's a great point, all completely different. And you don't need to have a very sophisticated palette to recognize these.
Yeah. You don't have to look too hard. Yeah. It's just easy. And it smacks you in the face.
**Senator:** It's great. I just want to say, I think. Back to your question around, you know, were we so well prepared that maybe this wasn't as eye popping or surprising to us? Not even
**Gizmo:** prepared,
**Senator:** but like attenuated or like calibrated to it.
Yeah, but prepared as in we, you know, we've, we've had it before to kind [01:23:00] of know what to expect. And, and I honestly, for me, this has been as eye opening, if not more than when we first tried it. And for me, the reason is, if I'm being honest, I mean, I was, Shocked to try mezcals that were not, you know, those smoke bombs that I, you know, expected mezcal to be, but I can't say that I found in that time, like the mezcal for me.
And I think a part of it is we had really only scratched the surface of mezcal. We spent most of the time really diving into tequila so much so that, I mean, last night, I think I sent a photo, I was drinking, um, El Tesoro and, you know, You know, like we picked out tequilas that now we, we purchase regularly.
I assume a lot of, I, in my enthusiasm, you know, bought a bunch of Mezcal, but I can't say that like, that was the perfect Mezcal for what I'm looking for. Sure.
**Speaker 7:** Yeah,
**Senator:** this experience. Has been completely eye opening for me in the sense that I'm finding things that check [01:24:00] all the boxes that I was hoping existed in Mezcal the Neta more than any, I mean, that is, if I could describe to you what I want to experience in a Mezcal.
and didn't think really existed. That's probably what I would have described and then you would have told me I had to try that. So for me, this has been even more eye opening than our early experience.
**Grinder:** Absolutely correct. The net is in a league of its own. I mean, it's so fucking good.
**Bam Bam:** But, you know, this last expression, like the second one that we had, I would have this prior to a meal.
For me, it'll kind of set the table. Then I go right into my food.
**Gizmo:** So Ricky, what's the price point on this Ray Comparo?
**Bam Bam:** We're looking
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** at about 154 bucks.
**Gizmo:** Okay. So it's kind of close to the, uh,
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** the last one. Yeah. I mean, are there deals to be had? Sure. But you're not going to get it for less than a hundred.
**Gizmo:** And what's the, uh, alcohol percentage on this one?
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** Uh, here we're looking at 48. 7.
**Gizmo:** Now they're all
**Grinder:** hot, but you don't, it doesn't taste hot.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** That's what's shocking. It [01:25:00] is. So this is bottle 229 of 612. Wow. Only 612. 600 bottles. Wow. I
**Gizmo:** gotta say, going back to what Pagoda said, it's, I've been thinking about it since he said it.
The, uh, Lack of effort that you have to put in to find these notes is it's relaxing and refreshing to me. Like there, there's sometimes where we, we light a cigar and the listeners can hear it. We kind of, we're kind of running around the ring trying to find this, these, yeah, we're reaching, we're trying to find flavor notes to explain what we're tasting.
And here we have three Mezcals tonight. Mm hmm. And I haven't felt that once.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah, I have a general question for all of you because you all mentioned that you'd experience a little heat in these three expressions. Where are you getting that the most? Are you just drinking it right away? Is it in the front of your tongue?
**Senator:** I don't know that we've been saying we're getting heat as in we're feeling it. I think like Grindr said, like, they're hot because the alcohol percentage is high, but you don't actually [01:26:00] feel it. I'm
**Gizmo:** not feeling it. We've had bourbons that are 45 and drink way hotter. This is true.
**Bam Bam:** But taking your advice, chef, if I keep it in my mouth just a little bit longer, you kind of experience the whole flavor profile that you should.
Yeah. And then when you take it down, it is really, really creamy. Yeah. So
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** it also helps. And now we're on our third expression. So our palates are adjusted, like everything's fully tempered. Right. And if some of you out there remember the tequila episode and how I'd spoke about just how to properly taste tequila, uh, and it's all, it's all just to prepare.
Like, so, so many people are used to, especially Mexican distillates, just kind of taking them down in shots or, and, and all you do is you send your body into shock. You're not really enjoying what you're experiencing, if anything. Um, and, and, and granted, uh, you know, probably you're drinking juice or you were drinking juice at the time that wasn't even worth savoring.
But with these mezcals, you have no choice. Alright, like you just, you're like, [01:27:00] holy shit, what just happened? I need that again. Um, and. And yeah, this is, and it's funny, right? So I have these experiences with my friends that I drink. And it's always, we're just always geeking out at the table, right? And then sometimes I wonder what do we look like to the person looking in and the outside looking in and say, look at these guys, just, is it really that serious?
Is it really that dynamic? I mean, you guys tell me.
**Grinder:** I, I think, I think there's a visceral nature to this because there's so much that goes into just learning about how you, how this is made. There's a lot of different flavors that are enhancing it. You use the word umami. Yeah, absolutely. And, and just changing where you're receiving that taste on the, on your tongue is, is enlightening.
And, you know, it's, it's, I think you can't get around how, I use the word visceral again, right? But it's, it's, it feels like it's, your body is reacting in a way, And it's elevating you. And I'm not surprised that the spirit has [01:28:00] some kind of ceremonial, you know, hint to it.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** We're all talking and we're all smiling as we're talking.
It's an exciting experience though. This is what happens every single time, ideally. Um, but yeah, this is, this is like the natural response to Delicious Mezcal. Yeah. The awakening of the
**Bam Bam:** senses is really what's doing that.
**Pagoda:** Yeah, this is what happens when we smoke great cigars. We, we're a bit giddy. Yeah, we get giddy.
Yeah,
**Bam Bam:** it's,
**Pagoda:** uh, But it's
**Senator:** the
**Pagoda:** mezcal,
**Senator:** not the
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** cigar. Yeah, not tonight. The mezcal is saving this cigar for sure. I think Senator, I think Senator
**Senator:** ditched his cigar. Yeah, no, I'll just, I'll, I'll happily own it. I have fought just to keep this thing lit. It's not even that I'm talking so much. It's like, I would literally just put the cigar down, Take a couple sips of the mezcal and come back to it and I'm having to relight the cigar.
I mean, it's just ridiculous. Especially the second
**Pagoda:** half. Yeah,
**Senator:** right. And, and, you know, a cigar, I don't like to have to fight any cigar to stay lit, but a cigar I'm willing to do that is one that's keeping my interest. And the fact that this isn't, I'm just done with it at this point. And it's, it's really drying, [01:29:00]
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** right?
Is it just me? Like, we've all coughed a couple times, and it's not necessarily a cough, but we're just trying to moisten our throats, or just kind of have something happening. Uh, cause I find a cigar to be really dry.
**Pagoda:** Alright, I'm ready for another pour, please. Look at that, I passed it that time.
**Gizmo:** So, Chef Ricky, I got a question for you.
So, you know, going back to cigars, obviously we talked a little bit about, all of us have had a, Palate, you know, changing, defining expansion experience over the last few years, us here in the room on the podcast, you and you, you know, your journey in the lounge here with us and, and, and on your own, I'm curious, what are some of your favorite cigars as a chef?
I think I always look to your palate is one that's just, you're, you're constantly tapping into your palate. It's what you do for a living. What are some of your favorite cigars right now? Maybe some that we've smoked on the pod, some we haven't, what are some of your go tos at the moment that really are.
You
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** know, for me right now, I, I, I still rely heavily on your [01:30:00] guys suggestions. Um, and you know, I, I do so because I trust your palates. I trust your opinions. Um, and quite frankly, a lot of the cigars that I've been trying, I've never had before. Um, So in fruit transparency, when I'm looking to buy, you know, new sticks, I'm like, Hmm, let's look at that Lounge Dizzle spreadsheet, uh, on the website and see, uh, you know, what they've covered.
You know, what's the flavor profile like, what's the ratings, uh, and I know you guys well enough and trust you guys. to the point that I'm like, okay, if I got this rating, it must be good, you know, and that's why I sit here and I hear how you guys are rating these mescals and it makes me so proud because I value your opinions because of your experiences and just knowing you guys and I don't know, what are, what are, this is like episode 140, something at this point?
This is 136. 136. So it's, I mean, it, it's, yeah. Like, and then just to be a part of that transition, because I've been listening since day one, um, [01:31:00] you know, obviously part of my reason for coming on the pod was hearing you guys talk about tequila. And I was like, these guys have no idea what they're talking about.
Hey, Don Julio and you know, it's a great tequila. That is a nice tequila.
**Gizmo:** With ice.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** Come
**Gizmo:** on. Yes,
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** with
**Gizmo:** ice.
**Pagoda:** I remember Giz ditching the Belvenie for the Don Julio tequila.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** But I bought a lot of those. But geez Louise, man, just hearing, uh, you know, where you guys have come, I fully trust your palates. I fully trust your opinions.
Um, so yes, I do lean on that a lot still. But with that being said, uh, some of my favorite sticks now, Exclusivo is always there for me. From Padron. Yeah. The, uh, Davidoff White Label Churchill, uh, the short smoke that we've all, yeah, the Bellicoso that we've all been smoking. I can't get enough of that. Uh, it really hits.
I think
**Gizmo:** between us, I think we probably just ordered about 15 boxes of those Bellicosas from Davidoff. We gave that a 10 on the pot. Yeah, we did. I
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** think I'm on number 6 now. They're incredible. This has probably been a month, so. Although they'll take a month to get here, but. [01:32:00] You know. Yeah. For what it's worth, I do enjoy sharing my cigars.
So I go from an empty humidor to a fully stocked humidor, and then it's empty all over again. Were you looking at Ben when you said that? That's not nice. You know, I didn't even make the connection.
**Gizmo:** I'm sorry. We'll do it for you.
**Pagoda:** I am, I am not a hoarder. No, no, no. Bob's humidor never goes empty.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** And, uh, and, you know, again, because of your guys recommendations and, you know, that Fabrica 5 cigar that I smoked recently blew my freaking mind.
Um,
**Senator:** I have to say, I don't know that I've ever seen Ricky as excited about a New World Cigar as that Fabrica 5. Let
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** me
**Senator:** tell
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** you what did it for me. Okay, so it came from where it came from. Respectable source. Obviously, the guy's a freaking genius. You've been on the tasting panel, Gizmo. Um, but you know, I receive it and you know, the whole slow, no bands, no [01:33:00] bullshit.
And, and it, it's very much presents itself as such. The price point is right. The presentation was minimal. Uh, And, and maybe that's what surprised me, right? Cause then I light the cigar and I'm like, holy shit. Okay. They're like, this is fucking delicious. You know, and the price is right. And it's something where I'm sharing it with people.
They're having similar experiences. You know, Edyov, who's another one whose opinion I respect highly enjoyed it. Um, and so, yeah, I, I need to restock on that for sure. Which Fabrica 5 cigar did you order? I believe that was the N5. Four. Okay. Uh, I've been out of stock of them for, for two weeks now. So , you're getting the shakes Use code Lizard Pod for 10% off.
There you go. There
**Bam Bam:** you go. No, I'm just so glad you enjoyed them because I think they're brilliant to go. And GIZ spent many a night in bed on a phone overseas on Zoom at 2:00 AM
**Gizmo:** in bed labor. I like that you add in bed .
**Bam Bam:** Hey guys, I have to do payroll and I have to go on Zoom. Hey guys. [01:34:00] I gotta go. I gotta make a call.
I gotta
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** zoom with Australia, but there's also so many cigars that I, I probably won't have again, or I won't have as often as, you know, that Davidoff, uh, bellicose or the, or, or the N4, um, you know, just recently having a punch punch. Uh, with Rooster. Yeah. That was Such a great cigar. heavily aged. It was just amazing.
That's a great cigar. And by the way, you talk
**Gizmo:** about a cigar that would pair well with this Netta tonight? I think it would be a great pair. Oh yeah. Unbelievable. Excellent call out. How well does it pair with this? That's another good one. Agreed. Yeah. Agreed. Because that floral thing would be so highlighted by that mezcal.
Absolutely.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** Yeah, a 2014 Sir Winston that was also mind blowing. I had that Classico that I tried to stir up shit on the Yeah, so by the way You're stirring up shit right now,
**Bam Bam:** by the
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** way.
**Gizmo:** Ricky sends us on the, uh, our lounge chat. We have a lounge group chat. And Ricky sends us a photo that he's smoking a Vegas Romania Classico.
I'm thinking to myself Where
**Bam Bam:** the hell did he get that? [01:35:00] Like I'm driving. I'm like, I just put my phone down. Like, what the hell is going on? So this
**Gizmo:** cigar, you know, is our, you know, like our Holy grail in this room. We love that cigar. We all cherish that cigar. And Ricky says that he ran it under tap water before he smoked it.
No, no,
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** no, no, no. I never said tap water. I have a whole house filter. It was filtered water.
All right. So let me set the scene here. You know, My wine of door is, is is okay, but you know, between kitty litter and Veda packs and
**Pagoda:** Yeah,
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** I'm, I'm, you know, I, I don't, is it blue? The kitty litter is blue. Right?
**Pagoda:** The consultant gives
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** you, I don't have the oasis or, or the double wide humidor, you know, I'm not there yet.
Um. Mainly because I don't want to stock it all, you know, buying it is one thing, but then filling it up as a whole other thing. Um, and that's where you
**Gizmo:** can hire BAM. He'll come in and advise you on what cigars to buy. And then you don't tell
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** anybody about it. We'll fabricate
**Bam Bam:** something nice for you.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** So for what it's worth, you know, uh, [01:36:00] um, it was either, it was either you or Rooster that gave me that stick and in a five finger Ziploc with a Boveda pack.
Um, and the Boveda was still nice and moist. At this point, it was the last cigar left in that pack. I'd saved it. You know, for a while, it's probably been in my, in my setup for more than a year. Um, but I did feel like, you know, I was about to get in the car, I was going to drive, you crack the window a little bit, you know, maybe the wind would interfere.
You know, the wrapper is not necessarily thick, nowhere near like this T 52, you know? Um, so I was concerned that maybe the wind or the conditions would just kind of. Dry it out a little bit or disturb it.
**Senator:** And you watched an Arnold Schwarzenegger movie that day. No, no,
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** no, no. This, this, this, this point pointer actually came from the pod.
Cause you guys covered it. I forgot. Who was that? A listener. Oh, dude. Right. Min Rani.
**Gizmo:** That was Min Rani was famous for that. And so Alex Groom, Alex Groom also takes his age, super age stuff. The, uh, the [01:37:00] curator of Cupid Cigar website and the writer of El Habano Moderno. Uh, because I, you know, I don't know if it's because of Min Ran Ni or Parallel, uh, ran their cigars under, under water before smoking them.
So, for
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** the
**Gizmo:** record,
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** I'm lighting this D52 for the fourth time. Um, and I'm probably approaching That's ten times less than I had to. Yeah, I'm just about to finish two thirds of it. Um, but, so You know, based on what I was seeing, I was like, okay, let me, you know, let me set this up for success. Cause I didn't want to be, you know, just destroy what's supposed to be this Holy Grail of cigar.
Um, so, you know, I always drive with some water beside me, uh, the water's room temperature. And I just said, you know what, let me take some of this before the cut, obviously you don't want water getting in the stick. I just poured some of that water over the cigar. I think You know, the recommendation was five seconds.
I probably did it for three. I was a little gun shy. Five seconds felt like a lot. Um, and then, you know, the water just kind of beaded off. And then [01:38:00] any excess water that was there, I just kind of rubbed it off with my fingers. Um, and it smoked beautifully. And I sent
**Bam Bam:** you guys a picture. He's very courageous, because I don't think I can do that to a classical.
**Senator:** My heart stopped when I saw your message. Did you guys see the picture? Well, first when you said that Bam gave it to you, my heart stopped. And then when you said you ran water over it, I literally almost had a heart attack. If I
**Bam Bam:** had them,
**Senator:** I'd give them out.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** So I purposely said Bam gave it to me to start shit on the group chat.
Because I was By the way, I appreciate that. I mean, this group chat, it was a Sunday. The group chat was kind of quiet. And I was like, let me stir some shit up. So on the side, you know, I text Giz and I was like, Hey. Oh, this side
**Bam Bam:** chat. Oh, I fucking love that.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** But it didn't spark any kind of debate. I was kind of I was somewhat disappointed.
I thought somebody was going to come back. But I threw my phone on the other side of my office right there. Obviously it was a day of rest [01:39:00] and it didn't start up any shit. Um, but no, so it smoked well, bam, bam gave me my first, uh, ST Dupont bands. Oh, bam's always been nothing but generous with me. I love you for that.
And yeah, and it was praise BAM
**Senator:** too much here. Okay. This is good. We're making a note for Christmas. We're over the holidays. We're all
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** owed an STD. I like that. I want
**Senator:** a line too.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** All I did was compliment the lighter and he said, you know what you could have it and I was like, no, no That's not why I'm bam. I
**Bam Bam:** love your lighter.
You got it. No one ever compliments me in this room chef That's why you got that fucking light. I never get a compliment from anybody in this room. Not ever
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** Okay Oh, man. And that was, that was one of them. That's not true. I know. Look, I want to shout out my partner, JP, because he's put me in touch with you guys.
And, uh, and he called it, you know, from the minute he heard the pod, because he heard it before I did. He's like, uh, you would do great with these [01:40:00] guys. They'd love to hear your opinion. And, and, and I. You know, I remember the first time meeting you guys walking into the clubhouse and hearing you speak and based on your voices, I knew who you were.
Um, that was a fun experience. I remember
**Senator:** the first time meeting JP. So we, we lived near each other and, uh, actually my, my wife and his wife were friends first. And so they put us in touch. And, uh, we're at this event in someone's backyard and the woman hosting it said, feel free to bring cigars. There's this other guy that's a cigar smoker.
I'm going to set you guys up to meet. So I bring cigars and I meet JP and he pulls out a Don Carlos. And I was like, Oh, Don Carlos. And he's like, yeah, it's the shark. I look at it. I'm like, that's not the shark. He's like, he's like, yeah, it's the shark. That's not the shark. This is like the first time we're meeting.
They're debating at their first meeting. And so he looks at it, he goes, Oh, maybe you're right. It's not the shark. And it was the bellicose of it. Oh yeah. Um, but we, we hit it off and we smoked some Patrons that night. And then he's like, you have to meet my partner, Ricky. And, uh, the rest is history. But, uh, let me tell [01:41:00] you, not many people win arguments with JP.
Senator is
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** one of the few. I have beaten him at darts. now. Yes. Not many beat him at darts. You're the only one. I thought
**Pagoda:** most people beat him at darts. Correct. The TV
**Senator:** lost the darts.
**Gizmo:** All right, boys, it's time to do the formal liquor rating now on the Ray Comparo, our third Mezcal pairing tonight. What a great, uh, what a great lineup of Mezcals you brought in Ricky. I'm, uh, I'm really interested to see how this does.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah.
**Gizmo:** Bam Bam, you're up.
**Bam Bam:** So I'm at a nine with this, with this one as well.
I think the herbal call out is right on the money, especially if you leave it in your mouth and you kind of swirl it around before you take it down. It's really very expressive, that herbal note
**Grinder:** for me. Grinder. I'm also at a nine. Um, the herbal, the herbal flavor aroma, I didn't get, I didn't get it on the nose really, but I definitely got herbal cypress on the palate and you know, like I said, so unique and so [01:42:00] wonderful.
**Gizmo:** Pagoda.
**Pagoda:** I'm at an eight. Um, Um, Yeah, I did get a bit of the herbal. I think you were very, I don't know whether it's a power of suggestion. I always say, uh, but, um, I just enjoyed the other two tequilas a lot more. And, uh, this is an eight for me. Let's go. Mezcal.
**Gizmo:** I just enjoyed how much, how much tequila have you had tonight?
How many samples have you
**Pagoda:** had? Oh, by the way, I said no tequila tonight. I just put it in the same. I put it in the same category. I know Ricky hates me for this and he's going to kill me, but Ricky, we've
**Gizmo:** only done two hours, two more hours. He'll understand that we're not drinking tequila.
**Senator:** Senator, where are you at?
Um, I'm also at a nine on this. I think it's, it's an excellent mezcal. For me, what precluded it from a 10, the herbal notes were so dominant. I just didn't feel it was as complex as the, um, what was our first one? The Netta. So I was just looking for [01:43:00] more alongside that. What that would pair really well with, as I have grown frustrated with this Liga and I am finishing a Cohiba that I lit before the pod.
The notes in, you know, those like grassy notes you get in the Cohiba with the herbal notes in this Mezcal. I bet it's great. I think pair perfectly. You're right about that. Um, so there are definitely places I can see, you know, certain cigars I would absolutely pair this with. So for me, it's a strong nine.
I would happily drink it again. Just wish it was a little more complex. That's the
**Bam Bam:** only reason I didn't give it a ten. Not to interrupt you, but I think the fun part of everything we're discussing is that you can now, as we learn more more. Um, really pair your cigars and this whole new line of expressions that we've, I've never really experienced.
It just opens up a whole realm of possibilities. I also,
**Senator:** just to build on that, you know, I, as we're going through this mezcal journey, I'm like very much thinking about this, um, kind of in some [01:44:00] ways through a scotch lens in that there are dramatic differences that you get in single malt scotch. Right.
There's a huge range in spectrum, but what's so fascinating to me about this, like the first two mezcals, we did both. Espadine agaves. Yet you think about like scotch from just the same region, while they're different, there's enough commonalities that like you would know a Highland scotch if you're drinking a Highland scotch, no matter who's making it, they're going to be a little bit different.
Each of them, no question. There'll be some common characteristics. It's wild to me to have these first two, they're both made from the same, uh, agave and they don't taste any different. Yeah. Anything
**Bam Bam:** alike. Yeah. And Pagoda mentioned it earlier, each has a unique experience, which is really a lot of fun. And working through your cigar collection to pair with that, it's a great, rich experience.
**Senator:** And the other thing I just have to say about Mezcal generally that's so fascinating, I mean, Ricky's been talking about how [01:45:00] obviously this spirit has really taken off and his popularity continues to grow. The, the range of consumers that this appeals to. is really remarkable to me. And I say that because my wife was in Mexico City this year on a girl's trip and she's never expressed interest in drinking mezcal.
And she came back and she's like, oh my gosh, I had these mezcalitas and they were so good. Are you serious? I really enjoyed mezcal. That's cool. Wonderful thing. And I was full. And you know, all these women that were with her on their trip, they were all drinking this and they loved it. And I can't see my wife traveling anywhere and coming back home and saying, I had Scotch and it was amazing.
Like that's not going to happen. There's just like such a huge market for Mezcal in a way that not many other spirits can really say the exact same. So. I just think it's funny we're all sitting here pairing this with a cigar and enjoying this and yet you know there are plenty of women out there who don't smoke any cigars and who [01:46:00] can appreciate the the notes that you get in these mezcals and people who are using who are enjoying this for so many different reasons that are all finding the same appreciation that we do in it so I'm just amazed at the range that this has.
What's
**Gizmo:** interesting about you saying that tying back to something Ricky said very early on in this episode Not to put a gender on the spirit that we're drinking tonight But just finding those more feminine notes in the in the expressions that we have tonight and other expressions He has at his restaurants like that is a real component to what we're drinking tonight We found a lot of those things and I thought the same thing as we're drinking this tonight like that that nata like my my wife Would love that.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah
**Gizmo:** same she would love that spirit. So I think that You know, it, it is really kind of covers the gamut of, of people who would enjoy drinking the spirit. So by the way, boys, my rating on this is also a nine. I thought this was very much in line with the second mezcal we did tonight. Um, as, as far as what it delivered for me, it was different, but it delivered something [01:47:00] very defined.
It wasn't as wide ranging as the Neta was, but I thought it was very much in line with that. Uh, so it's a nine for me and on the rate comparo boys, the formal liquor rating is an 8. 8. All right. So just the touch below La Locura and a quite a bit below the Nata, which was a 9. 6 tonight. Wow. It should be a 10.
You know, I want to give it a 10. I do too. Now, because we have a
**Bam Bam:** guest in the room, can we have a concession here, please?
**Senator:** Callum Pagoda.
**Bam Bam:** Can you change the score? No way. Please. If you don't
**Gizmo:** change the score, it's yours. Not even for
**Bam Bam:** chef. Chef's
**Pagoda:** in the room, man. I think, I think anyone who even thinks about it will have to be fined.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** That just talks to the integrity of this podcast. Because you can easily go back, edit this stuff out, and just, you know, make it what you want. But that's what makes this, this, this group of people don't know Pagoda actually stands right
**Gizmo:** next to me as I edit the podcast and make sure that there's no compromise [01:48:00] in the edit.
**Pagoda:** We get no breaks in this room. Sin compromiso.
**Gizmo:** Sin compromiso. Correct.
**Pagoda:** Ricky, I do want to, um, ask you something about Mezcal. Um, I'd gone to a Gordon Ramsey restaurant in AC, and they did a really good old fashioned with the Mezcal, which was a bit smoky, and I think I enjoyed it so much.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** Mezcal old fashions are delicious.
Are you serious?
**Pagoda:** Yeah, it was fantastic. That sounds crazy to
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** me. Mescal, now I wouldn't say I'd use any of these for that. No, of course not. The price points are like You could go with Yeah, but these are
**Senator:** like sweeter
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** mescals. That also, yeah, it's the price point and just the flavor profile, but you could, I definitely recommend going with a more affordable mescal.
You know, because here you really want to highlight the agaves. You really want to, you know, just experience that. But Mezcal old fashions are delicious. Mezcal Negronis are delicious. Oh boy. Um, uh, obviously Mezcal Margaritas. They're versatile. Yeah. Absolutely versatile. So it is a versatile spirit. Yeah.
And I,
**Senator:** I can, I would never have thought of really putting Mezcal in an old fashion, [01:49:00] but think of how many times you go to a restaurant and you order a smoked old fashion. Yeah. Right. It's like, you don't even need the smoker to do that. You just have a smokier Mezcal. I'm, I'm really excited to try that. I would love to try it as well.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** So some other, some other suggestions when drinking mezcal, and you, you may see this in Mexico City, definitely in Oaxaca. Um, you know, sometimes they'll pair, uh, slices of orange, fresh orange with it and some worm salt. Uh, yeah, I said worm salt. Uh, it's in the maguey worm, and it's just roasted, dried out worm, and they grind that with some salt and chilies.
Sounds delicious. And, uh, listen, maybe it doesn't, maybe it doesn't sound delicious, but I'll, I'll tell you first with the Pachuca.
**Senator:** That'd be great. Can we get a shaker of this to put on Gizmo's dash so he can sprinkle this on whatever he's eating?
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** I'll tell you firsthand, adding salt to almost any sweet fruit enhances it.
Um, and don't be so shy, especially when traveling, of trying new and different [01:50:00] things. Uh, most, you know, insects, worms, and things of that nature, they, flavor wise, they just come across as nutty, right? So whether it's, uh, you know, grasshoppers, which is also popular to eat as a street snack in Oaxaca, also known as chapulines, uh, you know, and they sometimes they saute them with some lime, garlic, and chili powder.
or chili, uh, chili. Um, to me, the base flavor is almost that of like sunflower seed, pumpkin seed. Uh, so once you get past, you know, what you're eating and you just focus on the flavor, it's actually quite complimentary because you, you could see how something earthy like pumpkin seed or sunflower seeds or things of that nature would work with, especially the last two that are a little bit drier than the neta.
I have a
**Bam Bam:** question.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** How that would work.
**Bam Bam:** So I could probably do a grasshopper if it's completely crunchy. If there's, if there's any internal organs that are still kind of gooey, I'm out.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** So, and I agree. I, I've got to be totally roasted. I've [01:51:00] had an eggs, a scum, all this, which is like Mexican caviar. Um, does it pair well with
**Bam Bam:** the Paul Roger?
It was
**Speaker 8:** a Paul Roger. And potato chips. I'll have to get back on you. El Pollo Roger. I'll have to get back to you for
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** that one.
**Speaker 8:** El Pollo. El Pollo Roger.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** Caviar, potato chips, crème fraîche, and Pollo Roger all day long.
**Bam Bam:** Wow. Chef, when you, when you have roasted grasshopper in your yard this summer, I'm coming over.
**Gizmo:** Or you can come in for New Year's Eve, we'll do, uh. Grasshopper caviar or whatever it was with Paul Roger with Paul Roger.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** I'd like that. Look, as long as the legs are off, cause the legs just tickle your throat. But I agree a thousand percent with you as long as it's because they come in all different sizes.
It's almost like shrimp, right? You can get the utensils, the nice big juicy ones. Or can you imagine eating it? Oh,
**Pagoda:** they bite into it. And it's got to be little
**Bam Bam:** [01:52:00] grasshoppers and totally crunch. Can't order those rare plus. Yeah.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** Yeah. Oh, gosh.
**Gizmo:** You need those. Well done. Uh, yeah.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** It's just like a chef's job is already hard and why fucking add rare plus and plus pluses.
**Senator:** Ricky. Ricky. Thank you. The
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** difference between a rare and a rare plus is just.
**Senator:** It's
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** called medium
**Senator:** rare. Let it
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** sit on a plate. A
**Senator:** chef has solved this debate for us. There you go.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** It's going to be, and listen, as not only a chef, but as a business owner, the customer As always, right?
**Senator:** You're goddamn right. Except when they're gizmo and they're wrong.
At face value, the customers,
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** that doesn't mean that in the kitchen, you're not getting fucking cursed out and made fun of or whatever. Oh boy, that's good to know. The conversation in
**Speaker 8:** the casino in Vegas. But we're at that steakhouse [01:53:00] of what the fuck is rare plus?
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** I have to train you how to make a hollandaise and a fucking rare plus.
All right. There you go. I like it. Perfect. So, but yeah, I mean, whatever you want.
**Gizmo:** Thanks, Ricky. I appreciate that. All right, boys, we're coming to the end of our evening here. It's time to do the formalism rating now on the Liga Privada T52 in Corona Viva. Our guest Ricky obviously has guest courtesy, so he's going to go last.
So we're going to start tonight with Senator. Senator, you're up. So for me, this is a six.
**Senator:** Wow. I'm surprised. That's low. That's really low. I'm surprised here. Here's why for me, number one, The construction I have to ding. I should not have to relight a cigar as many times as I did this cigar. I shouldn't have to take huge draws to try to fight to really get flavor and keep the cigar burning at the way that it should on its own.
And, you know, Liga, [01:54:00] we've, we've, we've scored very high on this pod. And I would describe every Liga I've smoked outside of this is effortless to smoke at a minimum. Just forget the flavor. That's the number nine. Easy to smoke. And that was not my experience with this. And then you add to it the flavor that for me, the first half was honestly too dry.
And I don't know that I've ever said that about any cigar we've ever reviewed here. It was too dry. I thought the second half, some of those sweet notes came through a bit more and helped. Overall, it was just boring. There's nothing about this cigar that I at any point said, you know, I would, I would pick this up again, even as a single forget a box.
And if someone gave this to me, I wouldn't be interested in smoking it. Now, was there anything overly offensive flavor wise? No, that's why for me, it's a six. I think like on balance, there's more good than there is bad in this cigar. I think that if I had absolutely no other choices, could I smoke it and have a decent experience?
[01:55:00] Yes. But could I. For my palate, recommend that anyone else with my palate go out and buy the cigar. I can't. And so for me, it's a six,
**Gizmo:** so I'm at a seven. The cigar started as like a, as an eight for me. Like I said, kind of peaked at that midway point and went down from there. I do agree having to relight it as much as we all, I think did, we, did,
**Bam Bam:** we did.
**Gizmo:** Is, is, is a major demerit on what should be the premier cigar. in regular production from Drew Estate Liga Pravada. So, you know, unfortunately, I was hoping this was going to do better tonight. But, uh, for me, it's a seven. Pagoda.
**Pagoda:** It's a seven for me. I came in, you know, pretty excited about smoking this because I love the Liga 9 and I, you know, At that point in time, I think I've tried T 52 just a couple of times and I did not enjoy it as much, even in those days, but I think my palate has evolved over a period of time and I was looking forward to it, especially knowing that Grindr used to really like the T 52, we're talking about like [01:56:00] 8 10 years ago and, um, you know, coming into the pod, expecting to rate it high, expecting something You know, very specific from, uh, you know, legal provider, because if you really think about, um, Drew estate, like for me, I always think about legal provider and, you know, the nine and the 52 have been staples for a very, very long time for them.
I was really, um, actually disappointed with the cigar that we smoked today. Uh, I do think that the mezcal totally enhanced, especially, um, you know, the Netta in the beginning really enhanced the flavor. It was getting really exciting for a bit. We were hoping that the cigar would develop into something a little more robust, a little more, you know, sweeter.
I don't know, a little more, just, it just kept me wanting more. Um, it's a seven for me. Grinder.
**Grinder:** Uh, this has been a sad, a very sad disappointment for me. I, I. You know, I was really looking forward to smoking a T 52. [01:57:00] I don't know if it's just the size or if something changed in the way there. It's been, I'll be honest, it's been a while since I smoked a T 52 and my experience has not been, Senator said, boring.
It's been, it was a little boring. I put mine down in the final third, didn't, you know, didn't want to finish it. I lit up an Exclusivo. Um, I think, uh, You know, in sum, I'm a six. I'm a six. And it's, it's very, you know, that's surprising from you. Very disappointing to me. It's almost out of spite. Honestly, honestly, bam, because, because like, I, I
**Senator:** really do love this, the, the cigar that I am fine.
Yeah. The memories of the cigar, right? Yeah. Well, you know, Larry David would say now you need to create a spite cigar. This might be it. Yeah. So I'm
**Bam Bam:** at, I'm sadly at a six. So I had six. All right. Bam Bam. So I'm at a seven. Um, I had some very mild recommend, which I think is where a [01:58:00] seven kind of lands. I, I, I'm going to echo what Senator said earlier, I probably won't ever pursue the cigar again.
I won't recommend it, but mildly I'll mention it to someone if they want to have something like this. But the first inch I had a little bit of cocoa, which was nice. Um, and it was very earthy and minerally. But then as the second half began, it kind of. kind of dissipated and then the sweet notes kind of ramped up, which is great.
I was expecting that all the way through. And by the time we got into that final third, if you want to call it that, that roughly inch and a half, two inch, it just got completely flat for me. Um, but overall it's a decently made cigar. The combustion was outrageous. I think a seven is a decent score.
**Gizmo:** All right.
For the third time on this podcast, Chef Ricky, you're up.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** I'm right there at a six with you guys. Uh, even if I went first, I was at a six. Um, you know, I, earlier I mentioned how the T52 sort of always was my least favorite, uh, especially when compared to a number nine, I thought it was maybe [01:59:00] my primitive palette at the time, but I'm still there.
And, um, I think we all kind of got excited when we had the neta in the beginning with it because it brought out some of what we wanted from this cigar. Yeah, that's a great point. Uh, but then the last two mezcals were a little bit drier where they were leaning more erasious and they weren't as juicy.
And, you know, the cigar kind of came through again and it was almost a disappointment.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** Um, And, you know, it's, it's, as I said, early on in my journey, I smoked a lot of shit cigars, right? And I did a lot of those shit cigars with Mescal, with my buddy Ken. And sometimes it made, most of the time, it made those cigars better.
Sure. You know, so I thought I was, I was onto something. Um, But yeah, it's, it's, it's a six all day for me. It's super dry. I've never heard, uh, every single episode that I've listened to of this pot. I've never heard so many people try to clear their throats as they were smoking a cigar [02:00:00] and just trying to develop some type of juiciness in their mouth while smoking.
Um, Well, that mezcal helped. Uh, yeah, yeah. No, it is a hundred percent. The dryness isn't attributed to the mezcal. It's the cigar. It's, it's a very dry smoke. I do find that it is well constructed, um, you know, although it kind of feels like sandpaper in the hand, but like this thing could hold up to anything.
You could smoke it in the middle of a fucking tornado probably. Um.
**Senator:** Yeah, if you have a great lighter to light it 15 times. Gotta use that DuPont. Need a blowtorch. Yeah. Yeah.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So to your point, I mean, what I do love about, I love the white ash on it. Uh, the burn is weird. Um, and yeah, it's boring.
If I had another Cigar Delight, I would have lit it, but I'm sticking with it cause it's all I have at the moment. Um, and I'm okay with that just cause the mezcal is so fucking delicious.
**Gizmo:** Alright boys, that puts the formal lizard rating tonight on the Liga Pravada T52 in Corona Viva at a 6. 5. Yowza. So, let's compare that to some of the other Druid State cigars we've [02:01:00] done.
We talked a lot tonight about the Liga Pravada number 9. We did that in Toro. On episode 10, if you can believe it, 126 weeks ago, that
**Bam Bam:** is crazy.
**Gizmo:** Got an 8. 4, quite a bit above this. The Herrera Esteli Habano in Robusto Grande on episode 29, got a 6. 3. The Undercrown Maduro in Gran Toro. On episode 57 got a 7.
6. We did another Herrera Esteli Norteño in Lonsdale on episode 77. Got an 8. 9. Wow. Yeah, that was a good score. Liga Provada Unicos, the Papas Fritas on a short smoke special. Episode 102 got an 8. 2 and finally the blackened M81, the James Hetfield from Metallica Cigar in Corona on episode 118 got a 7. 8.
So this is just above. The Herrera, Esteli, Habano, Robusto Grande at a 6. 3 tonight at 6. 5. Definitely lower in the pack for us with the tour state on the pod. It
**Bam Bam:** seems his [02:02:00] cigars are kind of riding the sine curve up and down, up and down, depending on the Vitola you're smoking.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** And that, that tracks cause I had that M81 and it was better than this.
It is. Oh
**Senator:** yeah, yeah, yeah. That was a good cigar. It was, it was. And I was skeptical just because anything with like a celebrity kind of, you know, affiliation, you're always skeptical. It's just marketing, but.
**Gizmo:** It was a good cigar. All right. So chef Ricky, let's talk about it again. We have three on Yeho locations that listeners out there when you're in New York city or Philadelphia, you got to go on to on Yeho experience the agave that these guys have on the shelves and in their mixed drinks, it's incredible.
**Senator:** And the food. And I have to say, and your significant others or wives will want to go. Because they've been on the real housewives or one of the Bravo shows. Oh yeah. No, it's, it's a thing. My, my wife just had a business school reunion. And of course, like one of the women that organized one of the events, it was actually a, uh, one of your, uh, one of the in [02:03:00] the city this past weekend.
Did, uh, Teresa
**Bam Bam:** flip a table that didn't happen. Okay.
**Gizmo:** So there's two in the city, one in Hell's Kitchen, one in Tribeca. It's
**Bam Bam:** a thing.
**Gizmo:** There's an Anejo in Philly. And of course your quick serve restaurant,
**Bam Bam:** Playa
**Gizmo:** Taqueria in Montclair, New Jersey, which is amazing. Go there for lunch or dinner. It's an incredible place.
So, uh, go see chef Ricky and tell him what you think of his Mezcal recommendations.
**Pagoda:** I'm just impressed that Bam watches Real Housewives. I know. This is a real housewife.
**Bam Bam:** Sometimes I'm forced to watch it.
**Grinder:** I know the feeling. I know. We all do, I think. I could, I could third that. And let
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** me just say that if you go to the Tribeca location, every mezcal tastes better when it comes out of Raul's hands.
Nice. Raul was our lead bartender in Tribeca. He does an amazing job trying to figure out the guests and curate the best experience for them. Um, and I used to give him shit a lot. He's probably going to laugh at this. And I know, I know he'll hear this. Uh, cause we sat [02:04:00] and tasted these mezcals together. Um, And I also just kind of want to touch up on one thing when you told me the cigar that we do tonight.
I was a little disappointed just because of my prior experiences with T52 and I thought it deserved a Cuban. Do you have one in mind? Did
**Bam Bam:** you have one in mind?
**Senator:** But I'll be honest. I'm sorry. Like for me also, like there are so many new worlds that are super flavorful. That hold up really well with this, like a thousand percent in a way that I think tequila that has a much simpler flavor profile, you know, that with like a really robust new world cigar, I don't think holds up as well as a lot of these mezcals do.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** I don't know, call it imposter syndrome or whatever you will. Um, I'm not as well versed in the Cuban room as you guys are and whatever I do know, I've learned from you guys. Um, But, you know, I, I shied away from maybe, you know, recommending going the Cuban route just because of how hot [02:05:00] mezcals tend to be.
And I was concerned that they'll overtake a Cuban flavor profile. But now smoking this side by side and, and, you know, it's just like, yeah. And then, and hearing from you guys before I even said that about how it would pair well with some Cubans.
**Bam Bam:** Oh yeah.
**Chef Ricky Camacho:** Um, I, I think that, that just, that speaks volumes to the quality of the mezcal we're drinking and, and how special and beautiful of a spirit.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. And what a beautiful night it was boys. Oh yeah. We had three amazing Mezcals. Let's run through the ratings one more time. The Nata got a 9. 6. The La Locura got a 9. 0 and the Ray Comparo got an 8. 8. All three were excellent on the pod tonight. And of course, the Liga Pravada T 52 and Corona Viva from Drew Estate got a 6.
5. Chef Ricky Camacho, thank you so much for coming on as always. Thank you. Let's not do it again in two years. Let's do it sooner than that. We really appreciate you being here, man. Hey, you know, the beauty is there's so much mezcal to drink. Oh yeah. So much. Next time we'll [02:06:00] pair it with
**Bam Bam:** a Cuban. Yeah. There you go.
Thanks so much, Chef. I can't wait. All right. Thank you. Thanks, Chef.
**Gizmo:** Thanks. Thanks, Chef Ricky. And thanks, of course, to all the listeners out there. Thanks to Fabrica5 for supporting the podcast, and we'll see everybody next week.
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