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Welcome to She They Us, a podcast about making room in housing for women and gender-diverse people brought to you by the Pan-Canadian Voice for Women’s Housing.
Join host Andrea Reimer to hear about why Canada’s housing crisis is hitting households led by women and gender-diverse people harder and what you can do about it.
Please be advised that the topics discussed in this series can be challenging to listen to and explore topics of homelessness, abuse, torture, racism, transphobia, and drug use. Please take care while listening and if you need support, unfortunately there isn't a national crisis line in Canada, but you can find provincial crisis lines and other resources on the podcast website.
Welcome back to She. They. Us., a podcast brought to you by the Pan-Canadian Voice for Women's Housing. I'm your host, Andrea Reimer. I'm a former City Councillor for the City of Vancouver, an Adjunct Professor of Practice at UBC's School of Public Policy and Global Affairs, and a housing advocate who has experienced homelessness firsthand. We have gone through a lot of ground this season. I've been struck
by the long arc of complex policy decisions and politics that have created the moment we are in and how complex the road out of this crisis is going to be. Most of all, I've been struck by the dreams of the women and gender diverse people we've talked to and how simple they likely seem to policymakers, but how far away they are without significant changes to public policy by those very same people. In this episode, we are going to dive into some of those dreams,
hear from newly elected MP and Minister of Housing and Infrastructure, Gregor Robertson, about what he's hoping for from the new government, and get some inspiration from 100 More Homes Penticton, a promising practice for community-driven action. Let's start with the hopes and dreams of some of the women you've heard from earlier this season. Here's Margaret, Lisa, Janice, and Ashley. My vision of safe and affordable housing is to ensure women,
also the transgender and gender diverse are accessible through accessibility and affordability. That is my vision. Also building more homes, creating inclusivity, inclusive community, national housing and strategies. So those are the most thing that is my vision and that is a vision that I have. That is my work of advocacy. You need to step up and bring these
SROs, like renovate them, bring them up to code, whatever needs to be done and keep people in their homes and keep them successful in their housing. You're just... by taking away these SROs or moving people to other communities or... there's... you're just setting them up to fail. And that's really unfortunate. And as a person, as a woman who has lived and who is working in the Downtown Eastside, I don't have all the answers.
I can't give all the answers, but one thing... I don't have a solution for the complex issues of the Downtown Eastside. But one thing I can say is that without these supportive housing units and supportive housing modules and wraparound supports and community that everyone in the Downtown Eastside has, if you take that away, people are going to die, people are going to be homeless, and they're not going to be successful in their housing journey.
If I had a magic wand, the first thing I would do was implement a guaranteed annual income. We need to end poverty. We need to end poverty. So, you know, whether it's wealth redistribution, you know, whatever it takes, yeah. If had a magic wand, I would implement a guaranteed annual income. If I could wave that magic wand, it would, I guess, a cross between like a universal basic income and
more socialized and supportive housing. Like we need housing, we need specialized housing, we need harm reduction housing, we need places for people who have needs to live in a safe space, in a place where they can heal and grow and learn and reach the potential that they need to in order to live independently. And I don't think we have enough of that. Like just creating homes is not enough. People need community and they need support and they need
universal basic income to maintain that status of being housed. Do you think if I asked your ex-husband the same question about what he would like to see in housing that he'd have a similar answer to that? I honestly don't think so and not because... I just, I don't think that anyone other than women and gender diverse people who have these unique experiences of needing that like village right to help. I don't think they understand the view of what that is and maybe that's just me generalizing,
you know, and I hate to make it about gender. I'm sure there are men and people who identify as men out there who would say the same thing, that they want that support. But as a mom who suffered postpartum depression and my mom had passed away when... like I found out I was pregnant, my mom found out she was terminal a month later, she passed away when I was three months pregnant and I had to give birth to my second baby without my mom. And I went through postpartum depression and I didn't have family here and I didn't have
friends and I didn't have a support system and I was at home alone during a pandemic with two children and depression and a husband who had to go back to work. And I was alone. I mean, I was attending virtual postpartum therapy through our hospital program while having two children climb in my eyeballs, trying to talk about why I'm stressed out as a mom and why this makes me depressed, which was just an interesting experience.
But without those experiences or understanding what it feels like to do that alone, I don't know that many people know that feeling of like, it takes a village to really do this. It takes a village to raise a family and that's not a saying for no reason. Like it really, it does. And in our society now where everything is instant gratification and super fast paced and everyone's so removed from each other, we've lost that sense of community. We've lost that sense of village. And we're all just expecting
women and parents to just do it on their own, like figure it out, right? So the big question: can governments do all of this? Since we started this podcast, a federal election has happened in Canada. And I have to admit, it's given me more hope for housing than I've had in a while. As Jill Atkey told us in episode three, federal governments haven't been great at systemic change. But over the years, the roadmap for change has become a lot clearer.
Well, I think governments need to truly be looking at system reform. So housing policy broadly, we do a lot. And I point the fingers more at the federal government in this sort of playing around the edges. So fixing gaps in the system as they appear. British Columbia, I will say, aside from the historic investments, has really taken
a broad range and some people will have said we've moved too comprehensively too quickly. But that's what a lot of folks were calling for. So looking at zoning and land use reform, looking at how to incentivize more types of housing, looking at how to fast track that housing development, one stop shop for permitting... all of that takes time to build out but is a more comprehensive approach.
Since I talked to him in mid-April, Gregor Robertson was not only elected to the federal government, he's been appointed as the Minister of Housing and Infrastructure. Here's what he said before he was elected when I asked him how hopeful he was that a new federal government could bring change at the level which is needed. The housing plan that was announced last week basically has a dream list
from my perspective of what the federal government needs to do on housing. And, you know, taking the advice of people like us who've worked at the city level, it basically proposes bringing the federal government back to the table with building housing, a program called Build Canada Homes, basically creating a new agency, spinning it out of CMHC to build housing on federal land using
federal resources, leveraging all of the tools of the federal government to basically contribute to doubling the amount of construction in Canada over the next 10 years. So we go up to building almost 500,000 homes a year in the country, which is a staggering increase. That's what's needed. Actually, we need to do that for many years now to catch up for the deficit that we've been in on housing. It's just, it's really
inspiring for me to get to work towards that. We have to be successful in an election to get that mandate, but to have that bold of a plan that's also grounded in the economics and the financing realities of a federal government is really exciting. So that's a key component. There are a number of other incentives, basically funding development charges to bring the cost of development charges down,
particularly with affordable housing, the federal government compensating the local governments so that that doesn't have to get charged on to developments. That takes out a significant chunk of cost as well. And some really good, interesting programs around a billion dollars into energy efficiency retrofits and heat pumps to deal with bringing down energy costs with housing. A number of other programs around Canadian funding, Canadian...
building technologies, so modular and prefabricated... Canadian materials, mass timber, basically using the opportunity to scale up housing construction as a primary economic driver for Canada, which given the threat from Trump and the US leaving us as our key trading partner, focusing on building the Canadian economy from housing as a cornerstone of that is really exciting to me
because we desperately need it and there's no doubt a great business opportunity. It's Canadian jobs, Canadian materials. And that's, I think, the kind of scale that needs to happen here to actually catch up and start to address the big, big crunch we've had for many years now. What Gregor said is hopeful, but one of the last interviews I did for the season gave me the most hope. I'd like to introduce you to Annika and Cheyenne.
So Cheyenne, can you tell me your name and where you live? My name is Cheyenne Fath. I live in Penticton, BC. I've lived here for most of my infancy. I was born in Chilliwack, however. I'm currently housed, if that's pertinent information here, which I'm grateful for. I actually live in like the nicest place I've ever had the fortune to live in. So that's been great. I'm not really used to it yet. My name is Annika Kirk and I work
managing a collective called 100 More Homes Penticton and it consists of around 40 organizations, both governmental and non-governmental, all working collaboratively to build systems that address and prevent chronic homelessness in the city of Penticton. I asked Cheyenne and Annika how they met. So I believe I was... I got into harm reduction and I slowly just got into a bunch of of working groups through that. I believe I was initially
introduced to Annika kind of informally, unofficially through my team lead, if I'm not mistaken. And so I was just told like they have this housing table. Everyone was like, you'll be great for it since you've been navigating these issues for so long. And yeah, I don't know, fast friends. I got on this housing table and she's been a great lead for that. It's been a great community to be a part of. The housing table is critical to the work that 100 More Homes Penticton does. Cheyenne explained a bit more about it.
We do kind of just like a lot of engagement sessions where we're advocating from the perspective of people with lived experience with housing issues and instability, homelessness. And so we like get together for all sorts of specific talks pertaining to like what's going on within our city as far as addressing housing issues and instability and housing need. So it's been really great. We've also been doing like a lot of cleanups around town that Annika's found ways to get funded for us.
Yeah, it's just been amazing. I find myself being happier and happier every time we meet to do this housing table. She's put us in a place where we can actually talk directly to a lot of people, decision makers in the city, such as people from the city of Penticton, where we get to share really vital information, our perspectives, things like that. Cheyenne is confident in a really lovely way. Not at all arrogant, but the kind of confident you can be when you're passionate about an issue
and feel safe enough to act on that passion. But it hasn't always been that way. Well, I've been kind of through a roller coaster of ups and downs when it comes to my housing situation. So a lot of precarious housing, being unhoused in the past, just really unstable, I guess you could say. I've been kind of joking with people about it, like
this is the first place I've ever had a dishwasher, this is the first place, like we have an ice maker in our fridge and just hearing all these new sounds and things and having all these new amenities is, it's almost scary to me. It's something I'm really getting used to. Like it's fancy compared to what I'm used to. And yeah, I would never have had the opportunity, I don't think, to live somewhere like where I'm living now all on my own. So it's just, really different and something to get used to. I asked her if she has her own space in the house.
Also, for the first time ever, yeah, I do. So right now I'm sitting in like what is my little own office area. I've never had that before or like it's always been like shared common areas as well with more people than maybe should be in past living situations like in the past to the point where it was just, I'd rather not be in this space unless I have to because it's so busy and cluttered and just too many people in one space generally is what I'm used to.
So let's dive deeper into 100 More Homes Penticton. Here's Annika. So 100 more homes started eight years ago now and it originally began... there was a bit of a turnover in senior leadership in the local nonprofits in Penticton. And so the new leaders started to meet for coffee just to get to know each other once a week and start building relationships and
during these coffee chats, they realized there was kind of this overarching issue that was affecting and touching all of the work that they were doing, and it was housing and homelessness. So at that time, the Canadian Alliance to End Homelessness, CAEH, and I believe it was Built For Zero, which is a part of CAEH, were running this 20,000 homes campaign across Canada.
And so they decided to coordinate themselves in Penticton and commit to building 100 homes in Penticton. After a year, they had housed 133 people and realized, surprise, the issue's not going away. And so they continued to meet. They worked with United Way BC to kind of coordinate and structure
these meetings and formed this steering committee. And then in 2022, the city of Penticton stepped up to the plate and signed an MOU agreement with United Way and 100 More Homes. And within that MOU agreement, the city committed to funding a full-time position, which is the position I am in now.
And United Way BC holds that position as the neutral backbone organization for the collective. But I didn't come into this role until January 2024. So I didn't, I haven't had the honor of watching the collective grow over the past eight years, but they've done a really good job. So when we first met and I first heard about 100 More Homes, I was really blown away. Like the coalition of folks you have working together is a
pretty wide swath of folks. So can you give us a sort of sampler of what some of the different organizations in that coalition are and then also why they would come together? So we have RCMP that comes to the table, the fire department, bylaw. We have BC Housing there. We have lived and living experience, as Cheyenne was mentioning.
And we have the Chamber of Commerce sit-setter tables. We have the Penticton Industrial Development Association. We also have a table called the Housing Action Table, which is a 50-50 split between local developers and nonprofits. And we also have a few funders that sit at that table, including the local credit union, Valley First. And I feel like I'm probably leaving some
people out here as I think through all of our tables. But yeah, we've really kind of stretched our reach to try and include as many people within the community that have a stake in this work and are affected by the housing crisis and homelessness. I just want to throw in, if I can, some of the ones that stuck out to me,
partnership-wise, there's P+OPS, so the Penticton and Area Overdose Prevention Society. So they're currently running what I guess was or is still our emergency weather response shelter. They're great. They previously ran a mobile bus that supplied harm reduction services and safe injection site, as well as bylaw services. I'm not sure if you said that or not, but that's been so cool to be able to connect with bylaw and speak directly to them, which I think a lot of us
in the lived/living experience category of things didn't think we'd ever have like a safe place, a platform or a way to be able to communicate with them where they were actually interested to hear what we were saying and take that information for value. We've all realized at this point that housing, the housing crisis affects the majority of us no matter where we are or what we're doing in a community. And I think that's been the most...
The biggest highlight of my work is to be able to connect with these community members that maybe don't think they have a stake in the housing crisis or don't quite understand how people become unhoused and what chronic homelessness is. And then you talk to them a bit more and realize that it's affecting how the community can grow and thrive and remain together.
Penticton hasn't always been a leader when it comes to supporting housing for the most vulnerable residents. Here's Cheyenne talking about what changed that. You know, it's really funny actually? I just have it, like I had it behind my laptop, but I've got a whole personal collage piece of art based on the previous council. I think I've showed Annika it, but I was just staring at it. This right here is like most of the Penticton's old newspapers and stuff like that. And it's like...
our old city council. I have Vassilaki on here somewhere as like the Monopoly Guy because he was all about money and he was and is still an investor in many businesses here and kind of came from that viewpoint on things. For a very long time, our council and mayor just seemed to be more about how do we make that, like how it appears not exist as in the homeless issue. Like I've always said to people, it's like they were trying to sweep all the issues under
a non-existent rug, you know? They weren't really looking for ways to help support for people that needed it. They just wanted them to go away. And we still kind of experience that sometimes from some groups, but I guess that's why they call it a fight for justice. There's always going to be people on the other side of it. But it's, you know, things are really, like I say, there's been a shift lately. I think 100 More Homes has done
incredible things to help do that. Because there was really just a huge disconnect between everybody in this city before, where now we're seeing the opposite. We're seeing connection. Listening to Cheyenne and Annika speak about this, it got me thinking about the conversation I had with Arlene Hache from the Women's Network in the first episode of this season.
I was asking her about my assumption that the experiences of women and gender diverse people in the housing crisis is a failure of government policies. However, maybe part of that failure is that we aren't engaging people on the ground floor in community. Community members who are housed perhaps don't understand how this failure does affect them and the community. And as a result, governments don't perceive it as an issue with broad impacts, so they don't act.
Here's Arlene: In my experience, the government is always saying we can't do everything, we depend on the community, but they never talk to the community. And then you go into kind of advocacy roles in the community and service providers, not so much people with lived experience, but service providers always point to the government as if it's their fault and they don't take any accountability for their own role in creating homelessness and perpetuating
kind of the stereotypes and myths that exist. So there is a large kind of across the board responsibility to be self-reflective, to act, to commit to, you know, the truth and reconciliation calls to action and the murder and missing Indigenous women calls to justice. We all have a responsibility. So I'm hoping Canadians will be more self-reflective, will be less
eager to jump on a fascist bandwagon to hate people in our country, to marginalize people in our country. As we wrap up the season of She. They. Us., I want to use this time to share some resources as well as encourage our listeners, yes, this means you, to get involved. If you're a woman or gender diverse person who has been in the housing crisis but are feeling uncomfortable about telling your story,
the Pan-Canadian Voice for Women's Housing can help. We offer various training programs to help amplify your voice. Learn more and sign up on our website pcvwh.ca/training. Telling your story is one of the most powerful weapons we have in the fight to get action to support the specific challenges women and gender diverse people are facing in the housing crisis. If you're ready to go, please,
sign up to speak at a city council meeting, join a housing advocacy group in your community, make an oral submission to NEHA, or you can even meet with your new member of parliament. If you're not a woman or gender diverse person who has been in housing crisis, we still need your help. As so many of our guests said, we need more allies and we need that to be you. Share this podcast, use your voice and support others to use theirs.
The last word this season is from me to the many people who have made season two of She. They. Us. possible, starting with the women and gender diverse people who shared with us so deeply of themselves in their stories, as well as the academics, researchers, community organizers and funders who also gave their time. This season was our first with Everything Podcasts and they have been amazing to work with. Shout out to Jordan Wong, our Sound Engineer,
Amy Scott, the Showrunner and Writer; Lisa Bishop, Senior Account Director; and Jennifer Smith, the Executive Producer. And my final two thanks. First, to my partners on the She. They. Us. project, Ange Valentini with the Strategic Impact Collective and the Project Coordinator, Monica Deng. And of course, the women and gender diverse people across the country who had the vision to create the Pan-Canadian Voice for Women's Housing and the tenacity to keep it going,
so that future generations of women and gender diverse people will not have to live with the violence and poverty and housing insecurity that far too many Canadian households led by women and gender diverse people have to deal with today. I'm Andrea Reimer. Thank you so much for listening to this season of She. They. Us., a podcast from the Pan-Canadian Voice for Women's Housing.
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