Unlocking Success: How Strategic Leadership Transforms Homeless Services | An Expert's Roadmap - Wayne with Nick Kennedy

Join Wayne and executive coach Nick Kennedy as they delve into the intersection of entrepreneurship and ministry. Discover how embracing entrepreneurial principles can revolutionize your approach to leadership, strategy, and service in the context of ministry. Explore timeless truths and practical insights that empower you to lead with clarity, purpose, and impact, whether running a business or serving the homeless community. Get ready to unlock new dimensions of effectiveness and transformation in your ministry journey.

To learn more about Nick Kennedy visit : https://www.nickkennedycoaching.com/
Nick's book: https://www.amazon.com/Good-Entrepreneur-Insiders-Building-Principled/dp/B09PJWGSXF/
Nick's podcast: https://www.nickkennedycoaching.com/podcasts/the-good-entrepreneur-podcast


Introduction

• Introduction to Guest and Topic: Wayne introduces Nick Kennedy and the focus on organizational leadership in homeless services (00:31-03:20).

Nick’s Background and Entrepreneurship

• Nick’s Entrepreneurial Insights: Discussion on the broader meaning and personal implications of being an entrepreneur (03:21-04:59).

Applying Business Principles in Ministries

• Incorporating Business Strategies: Integration of business tactics into ministry operations, emphasizing leadership (05:00-06:30).

Leadership and Organizational Strategies

• Leadership Qualities: Key insights into effective leadership traits and strategic planning (09:49-10:54).
• Operational Simplicity: The importance of simplifying operations and utilizing community resources (11:00-14:44).

Community Impact and Challenges

• Strategies and Innovations: Techniques for effective ministry management and adapting to organizational challenges (14:45-19:10).

Effective Leadership Practices

• Setting Boundaries and Partnerships: The role of boundaries and the value of strategic collaborations in enhancing ministry impact (19:11-22:34).
• Personal Growth in Leadership: Significance of self-care and professional development in ministry leadership (22:35-25:42).

Business Acumen in Ministries

• Navigating Ministry Challenges: Strategies for dealing with common challenges and the importance of clear mission statements (25:43-31:12).

Conclusion

• Summary and Closing Thoughts: Wayne and Nick recap the discussion, highlighting the integration of business principles and leadership in ministries (31:13-47:24).

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Creators & Guests

Host

Wayne Walker

CEO and Pastor Wayne Walker serves as the CEO and Pastor to the homeless at OurCalling. In 2001, Wayne, along with his wife Carolyn, started serving the homeless community in Dallas. They founded OurCalling in 2009. During his youth, Wayne’s family actively pursued the scriptural commandment to “love your neighbor as yourself” by modeling the life of Jesus to scores of foster children whose own origins represented generations of human brokenness, dysfunction, sexual exploitation, and abuse. Early exposure to these destructive forces set him on a path to recognize the long-term effects of trauma, which often lead to homelessness. While completing his Master’s Degree in Cross-Cultural Ministry from Dallas Theological Seminary, Wayne befriended and ministered to men and women in the homeless community. During that time he began to establish personal, discipleship-oriented relationships with homeless individuals, many in the same urban setting where he and his family continue to work today.

Editor

Orange and Teal Productions

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Designer

Sarah Katherine

What is OurCalling - Our podcast about homelessness?

A Podcast by OurCalling—the goal is to be a learner. What can we learn about serving those experiencing homelessness? Even though we have years of experience, can we step back, take a fresh look, and rethink everything we know? OurCalling is a Christian nonprofit (501 c3) serving the homeless community throughout Dallas County in Texas. Our team helps people get to know Jesus and get off the streets every day. Last year, we helped individuals exit homelessness over 1,300 times. We have a facility in downtown Dallas, and our street outreach teams visit over 4,000 locations throughout the county. We serve about 10,000 individuals experiencing homelessness each year. We partner with the most amazing organizations and recognize that we are stronger when we work together.

Wayne: 00:01

Welcome to our podcast by Our Calling as we talk to those that serve the homeless and and do what we do. Help people walk with Jesus and get off the streets every day. Today, we're talking about leadership coaching. We're gonna talk about why it's important to invest in the leader, in the ministry, and on the ministry, and kind of some principles of business world and how we can apply those in leading a ministry.

Nick: 00:25

Who is our calling? What does our calling do to help the homeless? The nonprofit.

Wayne: 00:31

We care with dignity.

Nick: 00:32

Our calling Can't help but think about the definition of Christian

Wayne: 00:34

We connect with intentionality.

Nick: 00:36

Called our calling. To our calling. We build community with integrity.

Wayne: 00:43

This is our calling and our podcast, a word on the streets about homelessness. Today, I'm talking to a friend of mine, Nick Kennedy. Nick is a executive coach. He does a lot of coaching. He is an entrepreneur, serial entrepreneur.

Wayne: 01:04

He started lots of things. He can will tell us a little bit about that. Nick, kinda give us a little bit of your history.

Nick: 01:11

Yeah. Wayne, thank first of all, thanks for having me on. I love our calling, and I love you, and, I'm really thankful to be here today. I, I am a serial entrepreneur, mainly because I, didn't, I make a really bad employee, so I figured I just might as well start my own thing.

Wayne: 01:28

Go.

Nick: 01:29

And, some in health care, and then some in aviation, and, I sold a business and I had thought, I was on top of the world. And my wife at the time, we've been married 18 years now or 27 years, so it's now been 9 years since then. Just as my New York Times article was coming out and I thought I was everything, she said I I love you, but I don't like you. And, I later found out I was living that quote that CS Lewis says, which which is, you know, man feels like he's finding his way in the world when really the world is finding his way in man. And so I grew up in the church.

Nick: 02:07

And my story, the thing that really changed my life a whole lot is my dad went to prison when I was 16 years old. So I grew up upper middle class. My dad went to prison for for nearly 20 years, and I had a chip on my shoulder. And entrepreneurship became my identity that allowed me to say, hey. I'm worthy, and and and I got that from from the world.

Nick: 02:26

And, luckily, when I sold the business, I was able to take some time off, and I did a lot of work, through John Townsend and other folks. And and I was able to reconstruct my identity in Christ, and now I get to walk with other entrepreneurs and other leaders and sit with them in these sacred moments and help them, do one thing really well, which is take opaqueness and make it clear. That's really what I do. I'm a professional listener for what's being said and what's not being said, and then I, help bring clarity so they can intentionally make decisions on behalf of themselves and their organization. How's that for an intro?

Wayne: 03:05

That's awesome. I know how much you hate talking about yourself. You did a great job there.

Nick: 03:08

Thank you. Thank you.

Wayne: 03:09

You know, the reason why I thought it was so important to talk to you and have record this time with you is because this is specifically for people that are serving the homeless community.

Nick: 03:20

Mhmm.

Wayne: 03:20

They're running shelters. They're running a ministry. They've got a group of friends going out every Friday serving meals under a bridge. They're running an organization.

Nick: 03:29

Yeah.

Wayne: 03:29

And sometimes we're so busy doing the thing. Right? Working in the organization. Yeah. We don't ever work on the organization.

Wayne: 03:37

Right? We work in the ministry, not on the ministry. And what you do is so instrumental in helping people lead. Right? And leadership skills are just are are vacant in in a lot of, organizations.

Wayne: 03:51

You used a word there. 1st, I wanna start off with you kinda defining it for us. What is an entrepreneur?

Nick: 03:59

So I wrote a I wrote a book a couple of years ago called The Good Entrepreneur. And through my research of writing that book, I entrepreneur is a French word, and it it means anybody who bears risk. So we've long thought in the United States as an entrepreneur or someone who does start ups, and that clearly is the answer. But the French word, the pure definition is anybody who bears risk. So it's not just a start up founder or CEO who who starts a a technology business like we usually think about.

Nick: 04:30

It's anybody who's saying I'm going to put myself at risk to make the world a better place. And, and so in this book, I argue that that the entrepreneurs are so so much more than tech CEOs. It's it is all of the its ministers are entrepreneurs. Stay at home, parents are entrepreneurs. Dentist are entrepreneurs.

Nick: 04:51

House builders are entrepreneurs. Like, anybody who's saying, I'm gonna go take a risk to make myself better and make the world better, that's what an entrepreneur is.

Wayne: 04:59

I love that. Often we think about it's just a business guy. Right? And in in the world of ministry, I hear this all the time. You know, you can't bring corporate into ministry.

Wayne: 05:11

Right? And I'm a Peter Drucker fan, you know, I read a lot of business books. I've read a bunch of books you've recommended. I've read your book. It's in ministry, we need to think about these principles and leadership and principles about strategy and KPIs and stuff.

Wayne: 05:28

But, you know, for years, I just kept getting a lot of pushback of you being too corporate, you being too corporate. But when I read the gospels, especially like when Jesus sends out the 70, I love that story. He sends out the 70 and he says, I'm gonna send these guys to a list of cities that I'm about to go minister to. So somewhere Jesus has got his little paper iPad. He's got a list of cities he's gonna go to.

Wayne: 05:50

He sends these guys out ahead of him to the cities he's about to minister, not any random cities, but specifically the ones he's about to go minister to. And he gives him, you know, a strategy. Go out 2 by 2, carry this, don't carry this, say this, don't say that, you know, don't do this. If they do this, respond this way. If they say don't, kick the dust off your feet and keep going.

Wayne: 06:08

There's a lot of strategy. And then as I go back and read the old testament, there's tons of strategy there and leadership principles.

Nick: 06:14

Yeah.

Wayne: 06:15

I mean, not I mean, we could write a book on Nehemiah's leadership. Business acumen and leadership skills and what you focus on being a good entrepreneur, how is that relevant to working in a ministry?

Nick: 06:30

Well, I would say 2 things. Number 1, all truth is God's truth. And I feel like our role as as believers in this world, in this broken fallen world, we know we're never gonna completely redeem this world as we see it today. But part of our part of our world is to work towards that. And and the way we work towards that is to find truth and then excavate that as much as we can.

Nick: 06:56

Like like, when someone gives you a moment of truth, that string, your job is to pull as hard as you possibly can. And and so whether it's Drucker or it's Paul, truth is truth is truth. It's all God's. He's the creator. He designed everything.

Nick: 07:12

Truth is his. So I take the opinion that, let's go find the best truth, recognizing that who regardless of who wrote it, it's god's truth. They may not have intended it to be god's truth, but it is god's truth. The second thing I have to say is, again, to quote CS Lewis, he says in one of his books, he says, what the world needs is not more Christians who happen to be writers. What the world needs is great writers, the best writers, who when someone says, why are you such a great writer?

Nick: 07:42

The answer is because my god, my creator has called me to do the best I can. Like, I don't when when I need my toilet unclogged, I don't look for the igthuse on a business card because, quite frankly, I want the best plumber, Christian or not.

Wayne: 07:55

Yeah.

Nick: 07:56

And I think as Christians, it is really easy to kinda fall back on, well, I'm a Christian, therefore, I can just kinda get away with it. What I'm saying well, you do it here with our calling. Right? Not like, you look at the work that you're doing here, all the I love you, Wayne, for a lot of reasons. One of which is just your ability to see things differently.

Nick: 08:14

You're very contrarian in the best possible way. You go, this is the way it's always been done, but we're not seeing the change we want, therefore, why don't we do it another way? And and I think that's what god calls us to do is to go, hey. I'm calling you to find a better way to redeem this world, to redeem yourself, to redeem others, to follow this path as best you can. And so, I think one of the best and worst things ever happened to the evangelical church, modern church, is when Bill Hybels got a cover, a copy of Good to Great.

Nick: 08:48

And he said, well, this works for corporations. Let's do it at at at, Willow Creek. Right? His church. Mhmm.

Nick: 08:52

And guess what? The church grew and grew and grew and grew. And you can argue all day long about megachurches and the size and that kind of stuff, but, like, at the end of the day, it grew. And but that was principles he used because he was a business leader who decided to get into church ministry. What's interesting though is that the two number one positions in the in the United States for narcissists are CEOs and pastors.

Nick: 09:19

And anymore in a megachurch, it's really hard to tell. It's really hard to have a pastor who wouldn't have been a great CEO or a great CEO who wouldn't be a pastor. And that's both good and bad because we get caught up in numbers and not in soul transformation. Right? Real discipleship around it.

Nick: 09:35

So all that to say is when you go do something, be the best at it. Like, I want to be the best business coach that ever walked on the face of Earth. My simple goal is when I die, they say he was the best ever. Will I get there? I don't know.

Nick: 09:46

But, like,

Wayne: 09:47

that's my goal.

Nick: 09:48

Mhmm. And so how do I do that? I I I look to scripture. I look to Christians, but I look to a lot of secular writing as well to go. I look to a lot of stoics.

Nick: 09:55

I list look at philosophers. I look across the board and go, how can I make myself better so that I can be prepared in the moment when someone says, hey, here's this question I need your help on? Does that make sense?

Wayne: 10:08

Man, you just said something there. You said, I I wanna figure out how to make myself better. So many people are busy doing the work that they never stop to pause and figure out how can I get better at doing the work?

Nick: 10:20

Yeah.

Wayne: 10:20

How can I I'm a carpenter? Right? How can I hone my skills Yeah? Right, to make better wood projects. Right?

Wayne: 10:27

I'm a plumber. How can I hone my skills, buy better equipment, you know, to be able to unclog that toilet faster? In leaders of ministries, it's we often don't think about we say we're so busy. Right? We get tons of people.

Wayne: 10:40

Like here, we're feeding people, trying to get people showers and laundry and get them off the streets. We got hair addicts, meth addicts. You know, we've got people having all kinds of major crisis. We never stop and pause about how can we become better at our job, how can we learn better leadership practices.

Nick: 10:54

Yeah.

Wayne: 10:55

And yet, there's so much correlation between we have a board just like a business. We have a budget just like a business. You know, we have donors. We have guests that we serve. Right?

Wayne: 11:09

And we don't call them clients, but that's what a business would. Right? Customers. Right? We have these different groups of people that we're trying to serve and be accountable to.

Wayne: 11:19

There's so much similarity. I feel like your principles in your book, The Good Entrepreneur, are very relevant to people in ministry. Are there a couple of principles in that book that you think of specifically that, man, that that's kind of a would really apply to someone in ministry?

Nick: 11:36

Yeah. I mean, I think one, one of the principles is is good as good entrepreneurs ask for help. I, for the longest time, again, right, like, being an Angel Tree kid, pick myself up by my bootstraps, rub some dirt on it.

Wayne: 11:49

Now wait a minute. You said something there. Angel Tree kid. So when someone goes to the angel tree at Christmas and buys toys that they can give the chill the, child of a prisoner Yeah. You were one of those kids that got

Nick: 12:01

Chuck Colson's ministry. Right? Yeah. And and and honestly, like, I was thankful for them, but I hated it because it was a reminder on Christmas morning that my dad was in prison. And I have a big butt, and they always got me jeans, and they never fit me.

Nick: 12:13

So it was like a double whammy. Right? You didn't wanna ask for husky jeans, but you needed husky jeans. But, yeah, I was an angel tree kid. And when you're an angel tree kid, what you're taught is you can't trust anybody.

Nick: 12:24

And except for yourself. In fact, today, 27 years of marriage, right, this summer coming up. And I still my issue is I have to remind myself that my wife is for me, not against me. When I'm when I'm not healthy, when I'm not well integrated, when I'm not balanced, I tend to go into I'm strong enough by myself, and I don't need other people. And that's just a lie from the pit of hell.

Nick: 12:50

Human beings are one of the few, mammals animals born that are completely helpless for, like, a year. Almost every other animal pops out, and they're walking around. They can eat. They can do all the things they can do almost immediately. Humans for a year are dependent upon somebody else.

Nick: 13:14

I do not think god could have made us pop out and start walking and talking and typing and all those kind of he could have made it that way. I think he's just saying like, hey. Listen. This is part of the process. Be a baby.

Nick: 13:24

Let other people take care of you. And when you become an adult, take care of others, but also continue to let other people take care of you. So I think asking for help is a huge principle. The other principle is leave a legacy. If you're lucky, you're gonna get 30,000 days on this earth.

Nick: 13:40

At your funeral, less than 10 of those days will be spoken about. So there's 20 99,990 days you're gonna live that almost nobody will ever have a record of. What are those 10 days? Oh, here's the scary part. The 10 days that you that that we've spoken about, the majority of them aside from your marriage, and maybe your kids being born, the majority of them, you'll wake up that morning and not know it's one of those days.

Nick: 14:07

So how do you prepare for that to ensure that your legacy is one that you can can be proud of and and and god's called you to? And so I think as a principle, when you think about, you know, the reason I do the work I do now is because, we spend more awake time at work or ministries than we do anywhere else in our lives. And I believe you can turn the hearts of CEOs towards God and towards their employees and towards their communities and towards their investors and towards their vendors and towards all the stakeholders in their business. You can change the world. So I work with billionaires, and I work with professional athletes, and I work with people, and I go, hey.

Nick: 14:44

Listen. You have a ton of influence. Look at all these employees you have. What if instead of them being worried about if they're gonna keep their job? You made it very clear to them what the terms were and and what you're gonna give to them.

Nick: 14:54

A great example of this is a guy named Curt Richardson. He's the founder of OtterBox, self made billionaire in Fort Collins, never graduated college. At the end of the 1st year of working at OtterBox, they give you a, a life planning session, a 3 2 day strategy session where they plan out the next 20 years of your life for free. And guess what? If that's comes out and says, hey.

Nick: 15:18

You're not designed to work at OtterBox, They let you go with free will to go do what God's called you to go do. It's not a Christian business per se. Now they say, I think their purpose is something like, we exist to give. Mhmm. And they're very generous.

Nick: 15:32

The Richardsons are very generous families. But, like, you look at that and go, this guy, you know, he's got a $1,000,000,000. And he gives and gives and gives. Right? And he provides back into his employees.

Nick: 15:42

So I think some of the principles are everything is a principle. If you can if you can decide what your principles are that you wanna live to, you're pre making decisions for yourself so that there is no confusion when it comes time to make that decision. And if you can look to Wayne Walker 10 years from now and go, what would most benefit Wayne 10 years from now? It makes the decision today pretty easy because you go, oh, yeah. It's a little bit hard now, but I think 10 years from now, it's gonna make sense.

Nick: 16:07

Just like you did when you said I'm gonna go plant this location in Dallas. Because I think 10, 20, 30 years from now, it's gonna be a lot better.

Wayne: 16:16

Man, you said something to me that's very convicting. You said a couple of things. I won't talk about personal stuff because, you know, it's too convicting. But, no, sometimes secular businesses from a leadership perspective are so much better to their employees than Christian ministries are.

Nick: 16:33

Yeah.

Wayne: 16:34

And I think it's because they don't learn in business leadership how to be good to people, how to care for people. Not only that you need other people in your life, but you need to care for other people and invest back in them.

Nick: 16:48

Yeah. Yeah. There's a principle that you you you need as a leader, you need to be selfish first. You cannot pour water into someone else's cup if your pitcher is empty.

Wayne: 16:58

Oh, but see, but in a Christian world, we're not ever supposed to be selfish. I mean, that's a sin. Right?

Nick: 17:03

I mean, look, you can try to pour water out of an empty pitcher, but guess what's gonna be there?

Wayne: 17:07

Well, when Jesus said love your neighbor, you know, one of my sleeves says as yourself.

Nick: 17:11

Yeah.

Wayne: 17:12

Right? Some we don't take care of ourselves. Yeah. And if we actually cared for our neighbors the way we take care of ourselves, it we'd be humiliated.

Nick: 17:19

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it would be. But, you know, it'd be a lot healthier. I'm I'm doing I've I've done some work with I do I I do work with, church leader leaders as well.

Nick: 17:30

The number one problem with elders and pastors and church is the exact same problem with CEOs, and that is that they do not know where their influence stops, and they try to influence things that they cannot influence. John Townsend, the author with Henry Cloud of Boundaries book was a is a mentor of mine and, taught me a lot of these things. And I said, how did you come up with the idea of boundaries for the book? Sold millions and millions of copies. He said he and Henry Cloud, years ago, they were running a mental health facility on the West Coast.

Nick: 18:03

And as they were looking at the patients that are in the mental health facility, the number one reason they entered a mental health facility was they they literally be went crazy and needed to be hospitalized, mentally hospitalized because they were trying to control something they couldn't control. They drove themself crazy trying to control something they couldn't control. And that's the same thing that pastors do, and that's the same thing that elders do, and it's the same thing that deacons do, and the same thing that CEOs do, and the same thing that vice presidents do. It's the same things that fathers do, and and and husbands do across the board is we try to control things we can't control. And when we finally step back and go, hey.

Nick: 18:41

This is my hula hoop. If you think of a literal hula hoop around your waist, 99% of what you can control is in that hula hoop. And the rest that's outside the hoo you can't control. You can coerce. You can manipulate.

Nick: 18:53

You can put sticks out. You can put carrots out. You can do all the things you want to go do, but you can't control other people. And you can literally go crazy trying to.

Wayne: 19:02

I see that all the time. Like, even in our space, we kinda we try to control the outcome of people we serve.

Nick: 19:09

Yeah.

Wayne: 19:10

Right? We pour into an attic and he relapses. Yeah. I mean, I've I've I've poured into people that have been murdered. I've poured into people that have committed murder.

Wayne: 19:18

I poured into people that have committed suicide. And you feel like if you are a better pastor, they turn out better.

Nick: 19:24

Yeah.

Wayne: 19:24

Well, that's from the pit of hell. There's so many things you can't control. We can't control donations that come in here. I can't control staff

Nick: 19:31

Yeah.

Wayne: 19:31

And challenges that they have at home. We can't control the outcomes or even sometimes the outputs of what we do here.

Nick: 19:39

Yeah.

Wayne: 19:39

And that's so similar to, I guess, what what makes us crazy on a daily basis.

Nick: 19:44

It is what makes us crazy. But if we sit and we go, what is god uniquely called me to go do? So I did some work with a guy named Pete Richardson who is happens to be Curt Richardson's brother. He runs a a an institute called the Patterson Institute where he does these life planning sessions. And and I spent 3 days with him, my wife and I did, and out of it came one sentence for my life.

Nick: 20:02

And that sentence is, I create experiences that lead to life change and true to true excuse me. I create life, experiences that lead to truth telling and life change for billionaires and prisoners and everyone in between. So when when you call me and say, hey. Hey. Would you can you come on my podcast?

Nick: 20:18

I look at that sentence and go, do I have an opportunity to create an experience that leads to truth telling and life change? Oh, yeah. I know Wayne. He's the real deal. This is gonna be a good one.

Nick: 20:27

I'm in. I'm a 100% in. I'll fly there. I'll be there. I'll do whatever I need to do to get there.

Nick: 20:32

If you called me and said, hey. I want you to come on and talk about how great you are as a business person, and we're gonna just you know? And it didn't lead to, like, this is to I'd be like, I don't I don't have to tell you that. That's flattering. I love the idea of that.

Nick: 20:43

That's not what god's called me to do in this season of my life. My decisions are premade. I'm the richest man in the world because my decisions about how to spend my time are predetermined. Now god might call me something different in a different season, but for right now, right here, I'm planted here. And when people call me and go, can I work with you, or would you work with me, or how does this work?

Nick: 21:02

I look at that and go, I can't coach anybody who's not willing to be coached. If they say if that meets that criteria, the answer is hell yes. And if the answer is no, then the answer is hell no. It's not like kinda, maybe, sorta. I need the money or I really like this person or they're kinda famous.

Nick: 21:19

I'd like to be in their life. No. The answer is hell yes or hell no. I'm the richest person in the world because I know my decisions for the next, as long as god's called me to this place. I know what my decision's gonna be.

Nick: 21:29

And I think that's applicable, whatever that sentence is for Wayne, I know you have a sentence like that. Right? Clearly, you do. You can see the fruit of your labor. The fruit of your spirit as it's laid out in this physical manifestation of this building and the people who are downstairs right now warm on a cold day, getting their clothes washed, getting fed.

Nick: 21:48

That's a physical manifestation of a sentence in your life that said, I'm gonna go do this. I'm called to go do this.

Wayne: 21:55

So these purpose statements that you're talking about, I'm in another leadership group right now, where and we're coming up with these values. Right? What are our personal values? And I've it took me a couple of months to come up with them. Now I have them printed up.

Wayne: 22:09

They're on the wall, right behind my computer screen so I can see them all day. At any time anything comes my way, I look at those values and say, does it really fit that? And if it doesn't, why am I doing it? Yeah. I think as an organization, and you see mission drift all the time in an organization, but what you're talking about is, like, mission drift in a person.

Wayne: 22:28

Is this really what God's created you to do? And if it isn't, why aren't you doing it?

Nick: 22:34

Yes. And when you when that happens and you've when I I call it river time. My my brother-in-law taught me this concept. We like to go, float the Blue River and the Yampa River up in Colorado, and we fly fish off his raft.

Wayne: 22:46

Sounds terrible.

Nick: 22:47

And he said he goes I said, what do you like about being on the river? He said, I'm on river time. I said, what's that? He goes, do you see that corner up there that bend around the river? And I said, yeah.

Nick: 22:54

He goes, I have no idea what's around that corner. Corner. And there's almost nothing I can do save stopping and getting out of the river to slow us down. And there's almost nothing I can do to really materially speed us up. But I believe when I come around that corner, I'm gonna have the gift and talent as the person guiding this boat for us to be safe.

Nick: 23:12

So you get to just sit there and be like, I'm on river time. I'm telling you, I have had times in my life where I've worked 10 times as hard, and I've had 1 tenth of the actual outcome. But when you get into a flow and you go, oh, man, and you just slow down enough to go, this is where I'm supposed to be. There's this great there's this great video, there's a movie, called Margin Call. It's the fictitious, fall of, I think, Lehman Brothers in in 2008, and it's the last 24 hours.

Nick: 23:44

And there's this one scene where Jeremy Irons is the chairman of the board, and he's called in early in the morning. He flies in on his helicopter, and he's trying to decide what to do with this crisis in 2008. Right? It's on the cusp of it. What did they go do?

Nick: 23:55

And he says, speak to me to this analyst. Speak to me like I'm a little child or a golden retriever. Like like, just dumb it down for me. And he says, what's going on? And And he says, do you know why I'm in this position?

Nick: 24:10

Why I get paid all this money and have all these powers for one reason and one reason alone? It is to make to to listen to the music. And what I hear right now is nothing. The music has stopped. And I love that illustration because the higher you go in the organization, the fewer decisions you have to make, but the bigger impact they all are.

Nick: 24:30

And there are 3 different levels of leadership. 1 is someone tells you what to do and you do it to the best of your ability and you do it earlier than and better than they ask you to. The next is you start to tell other people what to do and you start to go through that process. The third where most people don't ever get to this level is a self guiding mind where you actually go out and you're finding problems today that do not exist yet. You have you have checked all the boxes.

Nick: 24:53

You have you have put your house in order. You've created your operating system. Things are working well enough that you can go as the CEO and as the founder or as the chairman or as the leader, I need to go find a problem that's gonna start in 3 years, in 10 years, in 20 years, and I need to start to prepare the organization now. You can never get to that place if you're just too busy trying to keep the lights on because you live a reactive life. You don't live a proactive life.

Nick: 25:19

When you live a reactive life, you're redlining all the time and exhaustion comes in and you start to make mistakes, and pretty soon you just throw your hand and go, I can't believe I ever started, even thought I could possibly do this. And the answer is to get faster and to get more efficient, you've got to slow down and stay inside your hula hoop and be able to see the world really clearly. Right? Tony Gwynn is my favorite baseball player growing up. There was one season I think he only struck out like 10 times.

Nick: 25:43

He just did not miss the ball. And he talks about, man, when he was in the zone, someone threw a curveball. He saw it coming out of that pitcher's hand. He said the entire stadium went mute. The ball looked like a beach ball.

Nick: 25:55

I could see the spin. I knew where it was gonna be before. And I and I had to decide which side of the of the of the field that I wanna hit it to. Everything slowed down. That's what God offers to us.

Nick: 26:05

If we're willing to do the work upfront. And if not, fastballs are gonna come zinging past you all day long, and you're never gonna be able to touch them.

Wayne: 26:13

So during COVID, all of the shelters in Dallas kinda went on lockdown. And to do they did that to prevent out outbreaks, but all of them had COVID because, you know, it was everywhere. But at the time, none of them would take anybody else in. So if you were experiencing homelessness, the shelters wouldn't take anybody in. So and we never shut down here.

Wayne: 26:34

So, you know, we're not a shelter. So we had tons of people wrapping around the block, you know, people coming, cars down the street for people eating lunch. And we moved some services outside, but what we had to do was retool. We had to step back and say, look, traditionally the only options we have is to get someone in a shelter or get someone into some kind of housing. And we had to pause and ask those questions.

Wayne: 26:58

Okay. What's not working here and how do we come up with, a better options? Now during that time, like everybody did, you sent some of your staff home during COVID. We we had them actually doing research projects and doing intensive research around the country to figure out other options for

Nick: 27:14

us. Yeah.

Wayne: 27:15

And so now we have this software where we have 700 different exit strategies for people. We collect over a 100 data points on a person and basically playmatch.com. What's the best long term recovery program for this guy who's a heroin addict, who has one leg, he served in the Vietnam War, and he has a traumatic brain injury? Yeah. The need for him and the recovery for him is different than a 14 year old sex trafficking victim, which is different than a mom with 4 kids, which is different than a guy in his forties who's struggling with meth.

Wayne: 27:45

And so we've had to retool. And now that we're doing it, I don't want us to rest on our laurels and figure out, okay, what is the next thing

Nick: 27:53

Yeah.

Wayne: 27:54

That we can kinda get ahead. You know, this last year I'm going off my memory here and I'm getting older. This last in 2023, we helped 1,357 people off the streets by going through this process and now tracking their retention to make sure they're staying off the streets, which tracks the efficacy of all those programs we send them to. We may send somebody to another state, another city, you know. If if we've worked with a sex trafficking victim, which we do every single day, you know, the places, the good ones are not close and they're not free.

Wayne: 28:27

Right? So we're gonna pay the money. It's gonna be expensive, but we're gonna get him or her into the most appropriate place and send them there. And And we're trying to come up with new solutions, but sometimes, you know, we bang our head against the wall and there is no solution. Yeah.

Wayne: 28:42

So as you're working with entrepreneurs, and you're you're coaching them to find solutions. Right? To step outside of that space, Where do you lead someone who says there's no answer to this problem?

Nick: 28:57

Well, I guess I have 2 two thoughts on that. One is, the business business and or ministry, is going to be hard. It's not gonna be easy, but it should be simple. The reason I say that is because so often we make business or ministry hard because we've made it complicated. If it's not if it's too complicated, it may not be a good business or a good ministry or we just may have over we may over overdone it.

Nick: 29:26

So the first question we go is go down to basic principles. I don't know if you've seen Elon Musk's, engineering principles. Right? His first principle is you delete everything you possibly can from if the process isn't working, do everything you possibly can. And you look at it and go, okay.

Nick: 29:41

Well, we might need that. Let's put that back in. Right? You then you he's got this whole process he goes through. So you delete everything you don't need.

Nick: 29:47

What's the point of the business? What's the point of the ministry? What are you doing that doesn't lead towards that? It's exact same thing about that principle for your life. What's the calling and the mission statement and the purpose of a ministry?

Nick: 29:59

If you're doing something that doesn't lead it, I get rid of it. Get just cut it off, move on. Make it simple, not easy, but simple. The same thing I would say is that entrepreneurs, and I would consider, people who are starting ministries entrepreneurs. They do one thing really well.

Nick: 30:19

They trust that their future self will be capable to solve that problem. They don't know exactly how they're gonna get there, but they trust that the future Wayne, the future Nick, the future whomever will be capable in that time to solve that problem. We're supposed to walk in faith. If this if if you knew immediately what was gonna happen 10 years from now, what would be the fun in that? And why would we ever why would we need god?

Nick: 30:44

You would be your own God. I'd be on my own God. When I'm in my weaker moments, my favorite sin is pride. And what is that for me? That's questioning if there is a God, because I'm pretty good at what I do.

Nick: 30:53

Like like confessing to you, like, that's my number one favorite sin. And I have to go like, no. There is a god, and I'm not him. And then I go, deep breath, there is a god and I'm not him and I'm his child. See, when my identity is a child of god, I know that he's got everything outlined every single day.

Nick: 31:12

And I knew before you were born, before I was born, God knew we'd be sitting here before this microphone was invented having this conversation. And I can go, oh, I don't know how I'm gonna get through this day or next year or 10 years from now, but I believe that god has called me into this path, which is why getting so quiet. We've recently moved to Colorado. And I bring my clients part of it is because I love Colorado, and I love skiing. I love mountain biking.

Nick: 31:35

I love hiking. I love fishing. I love all those things. Part of it is I bring my clients from New York, from Dallas, and Chicago, and Los Angeles up there to this little town of 12,000 people where it just slows down. And there's a rhythm in nature that is a a a 2 which is akin to, I believe, the spirit of God.

Nick: 31:57

I believe we see the first thing we know about God is he's a creator. The next thing we know is we're made in his image. So we're designed to create. We consume more than we create and that's the problem. But when we get out of nature and we see the eagle soaring and we see the river flowing and we look at how these mountains have been formed over all these different years and you go, oh, man.

Nick: 32:16

And and and, like, it's the season of change for the the leaves, and now the snow's coming, and why do we have more snow or not enough snow? All these things. It's like there's a rhythm. And God is this God's going like, hey. I'm right here.

Nick: 32:27

I'm constantly speaking to you. Your job is to get quite enough to hear me. I'm not gonna get any louder and I'm not gonna get any quieter. You gotta quiet your life down so you can hear me. And if you can't hear God, it doesn't matter what you do because you you might you might be lucky and follow him, but, like, just get really quiet, which is why you gotta stay in your hula hoop, and you gotta slow your life down as a leader and you gotta have margin to be a thinker.

Nick: 32:54

I think writing is a big part of this. I don't know what I think until I write. I might say something off the top of my head, but I can sit down and talk to you for an hour pretty easily to write an essay, to write a 10,000 word essay. It might take me weeks. Why?

Nick: 33:10

Because I'm thinking about every word. I'm thinking about every sentence. I'm thinking about every paragraph. I'm thinking how I wanna start it, how I wanna end it. What do I wanna bring the reader to?

Nick: 33:17

Why? Because I'm having to do time travel. I'm saying I'm gonna write something now that next week you might read, and I hope it connects with you in a way that I want to connect with you. And I think as leaders, that is our job is to slow down enough that we can think really well. How now then shall we live, right, was what which is which is what, Francis Schaeffer said.

Nick: 33:37

Let's get away to the mountains in Switzerland and talk about these things. Let's have deep conversations. Let's be intellectual about it. That I think is what we're called to so that we can make fewer decisions that have a bigger impact.

Wayne: 33:51

What you're saying reminds me of the scripture in Psalm 121 where he says, I look to the hills. Where does my hope come from? Like, you're talking about the mountains. And then the next line is, my hope comes from the maker of the hills, not the hills. Right?

Nick: 34:06

Yeah.

Wayne: 34:07

Out there in the mountains enjoying it all. I looked to the hills. Where does my hope come from? It comes from the maker of heaven and earth. Yeah.

Wayne: 34:12

Right? You you talked about the principle of simplifying things.

Nick: 34:16

Yeah.

Wayne: 34:17

You know, I I think years ago, if someone would have said, what is our calling do? I'd come up with this jumbled mess. And as a board in leadership, you know, for years, we kinda just, you're just loving the homeless people. We're just trying to love people to Jesus. We're trying to, you know, disciple the homeless community.

Wayne: 34:31

Well, discipleship got it's a pregnant word. You know, no one knows what it means. For us now, it's very simple. We we ask 2 questions. That's it.

Wayne: 34:42

Every day. Will you trust the Lord? Will you let us help you off the streets? That starts everything. It's kinda like Subway.

Wayne: 34:49

What kind of bread? What kind of meat? Once we get there, we can make 1,000 different sandwiches. Right? Once we start with the questions of will you trust the Lord?

Wayne: 34:57

Will you let us help you off the street? It gives us an opportunity to really start to focus and narrow down on what's in our hula hoop and what we do and what we don't do. We have so many partners that serve with us here, In this building, we have about 15 different partner rooms and so we have agencies that come in to provide mental health care and physical we have 2 different mental health care providers, I think 3 different medical providers and when we get your pharmaceuticals sent here, we have the VA here, the city of Dallas doing ticket evasions. We have rehabs. We have detoxes.

Wayne: 35:26

We have trauma counselors. Oh, all these agencies. We don't do that stuff. Right?

Nick: 35:31

Yeah.

Wayne: 35:31

They do it. And honestly, they would do it better than we do because that's not our specialty. We wanna focus on from a leadership and business perspective, what are we good at, what's in our hula hoop, and how do we, really just focus on that. And I don't think we could get to that space until we spend some time alone just really trying to spend some time with the Lord and saying, Lord, what are you calling us to?

Nick: 35:54

Yeah. Yes. So get time alone and get quiet. And I would also just say this, there's a humility to inviting other people into this. There's a humility to say, I don't know how to go do this as good as you do, so why don't you come do it with me?

Nick: 36:07

There's so many ministries out there that wanna be all things to all people. Ministries and start ups have the same problem, and that is the worst thing that can happen if you have too much money. Because you feel like you need to go spend it. In fact, you're being told to go spend it. And so you end up doing dumb things when in fact, like, there's over a 100 companies that you can point to that started during depression or during recessions that are great companies.

Nick: 36:32

They started and they were great because they were able to cut back and only have the necessity. Yeah. They cut off the arm to save the body. Right? And I think that there's a humility, Wayne, that you you possess regarding that.

Nick: 36:44

Like, you have this great I mean, I know you well enough to know and have spent enough time, 1 on 1 and together to know that you have this, like, uncanny ability to be very confident in what you wanna go do and also humble enough to go, I don't know exactly how to go do it. That's rare. Like, most people are either, like, overly confident and don't I'm not gonna ask for any help. I'm just gonna go march to my the beat of my own drum, a. Or b, boy, shocks.

Nick: 37:11

I don't know. I don't have any confidence. I'm just gonna sit here and pray about it. Not the prayers and drawings and anything wrong, but they just you just get navel gazing. You have both of those.

Nick: 37:19

Like, I've seen the confident lane, and I've seen the humble lane, and I've seen them within 5 minutes of each other. And I think you do a really good job of going between those. I know this isn't a, like, a Wayne, the, praising session. But just to say, like, we're sitting in a multimillion dollar building with volunteers all running it and homeless folks or unhoused people that you're caring for and taking care of on a on a cold day. Like, that comes because you have the confidence to go, hey.

Nick: 37:48

I think I can go do this. I think God's calling me to go do this, so I'm gonna go take the step. And also the humility to go, yeah. But I don't know how to deal with veterans as well as others might. And I maybe I'm not the best with regards to mental health, so therefore I need right?

Nick: 38:02

Whatever you're not great at, you're like, come on. Come on. I've got a facility for you. Come be a partner. You come in.

Nick: 38:07

We'll take care of all the logistics. You go do what you do really well. That comes from your software background. Right? You think, like, a system architecture, and you go, this is the framework that we do really well, and I'm gonna start to plug in via APIs, all these other things.

Nick: 38:21

And who benefits from that? The unhoused friends of Wayne Walker and of our calling to go, oh, super easy to come in and get my clothes washed and to have someone pray for me and do some counseling. And I'm a veteran, so I have veteran benefits and it all seamless because why? You sat back and thought, if I were to start from scratch, how would this all work?

Wayne: 38:44

It's beautiful. Well, thank you. I appreciate that. But the only reason why any of this happened is is is not because of some brainchild. Right?

Wayne: 38:56

Some kind of original idea in my head. You know, if you see anything good, it's the Holy Spirit, but God has also surrounded us with the most amazing people.

Nick: 39:04

We have

Wayne: 39:05

the most amazing staff. We have the most amazing advisers and board members. I love the way that God uses people like you and your business experience to sprinkle some of that on ministries and to serve in in ways like you've coached me. The business world has a lot to offer Mhmm. Organizations like ours.

Nick: 39:28

Yeah.

Wayne: 39:28

And it's not just to write a check. Although, be great, man. You got a check, we'd love to have it. Right? But there's so much that we can learn from business executives and people that have run organizations before.

Wayne: 39:42

Yeah. You know, on our board of directors, you know, I've got super successful finance guy, a real estate guy. I have, you know, a surgeon guy. I also have 2 moms that are are are caring for their kids really well and are managing their family and all their needs.

Nick: 40:04

Yeah.

Wayne: 40:05

Right? One of them also works in the medical field or education field. Right? And and having those individuals that bring that experience into a place like this is so vital. Yeah.

Wayne: 40:15

How do we how do organizations like ours connect with the business community? Because I mean, I get told all the time, you know, like, ask somebody else to be on your board. But I'm not gonna ask a guy who has no interest in serving the homeless or a a woman that just because of sheer her business experience, you know, ask her to come be a part of this if if she's not ex expressed any desire to serve the poor. So how do we connect with people in business that can bring those skill sets to a place like this?

Nick: 40:44

You know, I would say I'd say very pragmatically pray about it and see who God puts on your heart. And and then and then go ask them. The worst they can say is no, which doesn't leave you in a worse position. This is where startups and and ministries are so similar. Like, I have an idea.

Nick: 41:00

Let me go ask an investor. I have an idea. Let me go ask a client. I have an idea. Let me go ask an employee to start with me and see what happens.

Nick: 41:06

Mhmm. And if you can't raise money and and you can't find a client and no one wants to work for you, you probably have a really bad idea. You know? Unfortunately, in ministry, people are like, well, it's a bad idea, but I'm want I wanna feel good about myself, and I need tax write off, so here you go. And then you have these kind of zombies zombie businesses and industries running around.

Nick: 41:26

I would say pray about it and go ask them. When I was in college, I did an internship at Prison Fellowship, and I was the Chuck Colson's chief of staff's intern. So I got to spend time with Chuck Colson, the great Chuck Colson. Right? And he was incredible.

Nick: 41:43

And I got to spend a lot of time with him. At the time the president was a guy named Tom Pratt, who was the former CEO of Herman Miller, the furniture company. He retired and became the president of Prison Fellowship. And and and one day, Tom called me into his office and he said, hey. What are you gonna go do with yourself?

Nick: 41:58

I was a junior in college, I think, maybe a sophomore. And I said, I wanna go run a ministry. And he kinda chuckled to himself. He's in the sixties. He's a fortune 500 CEO.

Nick: 42:07

And he says, can I give you a piece of advice? And I said, sure. Of course you can. He said, go out into the real world, run businesses for a couple of decades, and then come back. He said there are more well meaning Christians who have no experience running a business, who just screw up ministries.

Nick: 42:26

And I honestly, I was kind of offended because I was like, well, God's called me to run this ministry or whatever. I had no idea what I was gonna do go do. I didn't go run a ministry. I've been in business. I'm not running a ministry now, but I do get to work with people who are running ministries.

Nick: 42:38

And he's so right. He's so right because I've raised money and I've sold businesses and I've hired and fired people and I've had to have hard conversations and I've had to, like, I've had to do all the things. I've got skins on the wall that not only gives me credibility, but also brings wisdom to the table. And go, yeah. You need to fire that person.

Nick: 42:55

Why always the the niece of the donor? It doesn't matter. Like, she's not aligned with your mission values. Well, he's gonna pull his money. Great.

Nick: 43:02

Then then if he's gonna pull his money because you won't hire his niece, is that really who you want whose money you need? And do you think that you really need that? Like, God can't do it without his money or his her money? And so I think ask, do podcast, write. God is constantly working.

Nick: 43:23

There's a great book by Mark Batterson called Whisper. And my wife and I and it talks about how the holy spirit works through whispering. Right? And there's there's not a month that goes by where Angela and I will won't call each other or talk to each other and be like, hey. I think I heard a whisper.

Nick: 43:36

And what that means is 2 or 3 or 4 different people who are unrelated all said the exact same thing to us that came out of left field. We'll be like, what do you mean? What does that mean? Well, I don't know what that means, but I think it's a whisper. And more often than not, it is.

Nick: 43:50

What does that mean? That's the holy spirit going, hey. I've got something for you over here that might be next month or next year or a decade from now that I'm just kinda planting the seed in your heart because I want you to be turning towards this. There was a time in my career, I didn't have time. If you there was no whispers.

Nick: 44:07

You had to yell and even then I didn't really care what you had to say. I was too important. I was too busy. My wife would probably say the same thing in her own life. Now we're quiet enough to go.

Nick: 44:17

And it could be the person at the drive through. Like, it doesn't have to be like it. And you go, oh, there's a whisper there. And Mark Patterson has a beautiful church ministry up in Washington DC that's, that I think I think is a if I remember correctly, deals, ministers a lot to an unhoused community up there in downtown Washington DC. That's beautiful building, coffee shop, etcetera.

Nick: 44:37

So I would just say, like, reach out. Shoot your shot, man. Like, all they can say is no and you're no worse off.

Wayne: 44:43

Yeah. Okay. So you wrote the book, Good Entrepreneur. Yep. It's amazing book.

Wayne: 44:49

Highly recommend it. You've turned it into a podcast where you can basically listen to every chapter for free, which is awesome.

Nick: 44:54

If you like my pleasing voice

Wayne: 44:56

Love your voice, man. I puts me to sleep. No. I'd love it. Love it.

Wayne: 45:00

I love it. I love it. There's a lot of homework in the book,

Nick: 45:04

but it's really, really good.

Wayne: 45:05

But beyond that book

Nick: 45:06

You don't have to do the homework, by the way. I'm not gonna grade it.

Wayne: 45:08

You're not gonna grade it? Good. Beyond the book, for people listening to this that maybe you're serving in ministries, do you have a couple of other recommended books where they could start to look for some coaching advice and leadership principles?

Nick: 45:22

Yeah. A couple of different ones. Number first of all, I'd start with boundaries. I mean, if you haven't read boundaries or even if you have read it, read it again. Like, that's the beginning and end in my opinion with regards to living in your own, being properly prepared to go execute what God's asking you to execute.

Nick: 45:37

There's a great book by Patrick Leoncioni called the 5 dysfunctions of a team. And it's just it just hits on all 5 level on all all 5 levels. You've, I'm sure you've read it. I have on my website, nickkennedycoaching.com, a list of a ton of books, not a ton of business books. I think business most business books are pretty pathetic.

Nick: 45:55

I think most business books should be a blog post. But great books around the human condition, that you can go you can go look, and there's there's hundreds of them out there that are are good. Most importantly, here's the rule about about reading. Don't we're very bad memorizers, so don't worry about remembering what's in the book. Remember who you were before you started and after.

Nick: 46:18

A book is a filter through which you can see the world through someone else's eyes. You should be able to walk away and go, I see how that person saw something differently. Read books for people you disagree with just to understand empathetically how someone else thinks that way. And the number 2 rule of book, if you don't like it, put it down. I pick up for every 10 books I put I pick up, I put 8 of them down.

Nick: 46:41

I love the library, and I I go and get copious amounts of books. And I'll get through the 1st chapter. I'm like, this is bad writer, bad idea. I'm out. Kindle, you can download the first chapter for free.

Nick: 46:51

Right? Like so I would just say be a copious. Leaders are readers. Read and read and read. It's the it's the greatest ROI.

Nick: 46:58

You can take a weekend. Go read my book. You can read it in a weekend. And it's a sum total of what I know about entrepreneurship in 40 years of my life. And you get it to do it in, you know, 48 hours.

Wayne: 47:09

Wow. Well, I'm really appreciate you coming in here today. Thanks for your time. Thanks for your investment in me personally, and thanks for your investment in Kingdom Work.

Nick: 47:20

It's an honor and a privilege. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to do what God's called me to do.

Wayne: 47:24

Alright, man.