Lion Counseling Podcast

🎙️ Counselors Destroy Child Therapists 😂 - Episode 76

What happens when licensed therapists critique... child therapists?

In this episode, Zack surprises Mark with a series of hilarious videos featuring young children giving couples relationship advice. Some of their recommendations are surprisingly thoughtful. Others go completely off the rails.

As therapists, they break down each "therapy session," discussing what these young counselors instinctively get right, where they accidentally make classic rookie mistakes, and what they reveal about how good counseling actually works.

Along the way, they score each child therapist on listening skills, rapport, emotional awareness, and the quality of their advice before deciding which one we'd actually hire (and which ones might need a little more supervision).

It's one of our funniest episodes—but beneath the laughs are real lessons about communication, relationships, and what makes therapy effective.

In this episode:
✅ Do therapists give advice too quickly?
✅ Why listening is usually more important than solving
✅ The surprising wisdom children sometimes possess
✅ Common mistakes beginning therapists make
✅ Marriage, conflict, chores, jealousy, family tension, and more
✅ Our final rankings of each child therapist
Who do YOU think gave the best advice? Let us know in the comments!

📞 Book a Clarity Call with Mark or Zack:
https://escapethecagenow.com/contact/

📘 Get Mark's FREE E-Book:
https://escapethecagenow.com/subscribe/

📚 Books & Resources:
https://escapethecagenow.com/books/

🌐 Lion Counseling:
https://escapethecagenow.com/

Click here to watch a video of this episode.’
About Lion Counseling

Lion Counseling exists to help people understand how trauma, relationships, and emotional patterns influence everyday life. Through conversations like these—and through professional counseling—we hope to make psychology practical, engaging, and accessible.
If you're looking for counseling, EMDR therapy, or simply want to learn more about how the mind works, we'd love to connect.

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Creators and Guests

Host
Mark Odland
Founder of Lion Counseling, Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, Certified EMDR Therapist
Host
Zack Carter
Zack Carter is a Counselor and Coach with Lion Counseling LLC.

What is Lion Counseling Podcast?

The Lion Counseling Podcast helps men escape the cages that hold them back and become the Lions they were created to be. It exists to help men obtain success, purpose, happiness, and peace in their career and personal lives. The podcast is hosted by the founder of Lion Counseling, Mark Odland (Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and Certified EMDR Therapist), and Zack Carter (Counselor and Coach with Lion Counseling). In their podcasts, they address a variety of topics relevant to men, including: mental health, relationships, masculinity, faith, success, business, and self-improvement.

Zack Carter:

Welcome to the Lion Counseling Podcast. Today, we're reacting to some brand new therapists who are surprisingly young. We'll break down what they get right, where they need to improve, and at the end, we'll rank each therapist based on their counseling skills. Mark doesn't know what we're about to do, so let's see how he responds.

Child Therapist 1:

Do you know who a therapist is?

Child Therapist 1:

Mhmm. I think a therapist is someone who helps other people.

Child Therapist 1:

People or couples if they're having a bad day or are in a bad or in a or if they are in a bad situation.

Zack Carter:

So that was the therapist. These are

Zack Carter:

the therapists we're judging today. By the end, make sure you have your scores for each therapist based on whatever criteria you choose, whether it's rapport, skills, advice, you and me are going to to rank them. And I might even ask you, would you hire them on staff? So prepare yourself.

Couple 1 Husband:

So I'm very, very different from my wife here, Kathy. I love video games a lot.

Child Therapist 1:

Same here.

Couple 1 Husband:

But that means I also like to stay at home a lot and just kinda do things, you know, on my own and play video games with my friends.

Couple 1 Wife:

Yeah. So I prefer going out. So I like hanging out with my friends outside. I like going out hiking, picnic, you know, the park?

Child Therapist 1:

Yeah. I actually have a park by me. I also like to ride bikes and stuff.

Couple 1 Wife:

Yeah. So our problem is that I like going out and he he first thing indoor. So every weekend, we have, you know, trouble deciding what to do and we always argue about it. Wait. I have an idea.

Child Therapist 1:

You know Pokemon Go? It's like a video game, but you can walk around. You can try that out. So the first of the week, you play video games that he likes. And then the other 50 of the week, then you have to do what she likes.

Couple 1 Husband:

Okay. Gotcha.

Couple 1 Wife:

Fifty fifty. I like that a lot. Right now it's 80 video games and 20% going out.

Couple 1 Husband:

So we have to split it halfway then.

Couple 1 Wife:

Yeah. I like that. That's fair.

Couple 1 Husband:

Yeah. Yeah.

Zack Carter:

Okay. Alright, man. Oh. Thoughts on Gavin?

Zack Carter:

Man, I think he's a solution focused therapist. I mean, he's just going right in there. You know, alright. If I hold him to the standard that I would expect from an employee, right, I would say, actually, the way he was kind of initially reflectively listening was pretty good. Right?

Zack Carter:

He had eye contact. The fact that he jumped in with his suggestion and kind of interrupted them felt premature. It felt like he's pushing his ideas on them a little too fast. And, you know, those comments like, I like to bike or I've got a park nearby my house or whatever whatever he said. It's one thing to build rapport with a little bit of like, I can understand you.

Zack Carter:

It's another thing to kind of make it about you as the therapist. Fail.

Zack Carter:

All right Mark I guess we're going brutal today I thought you were gonna be nice but no apparently not. I mean for

Zack Carter:

a kid that was pretty good I'll

Zack Carter:

give it to Mark a it's too late.

Child Therapist 1:

What do you guys disagree on? What do we disagree on? Do you have Instagram? No, we disagree on Instagram sometimes. I don't know, I sometimes have a problem that you don't like to post me on your Instagram.

Child Therapist 1:

You should be proud of who you're with. Like you should want to post them. I don't know. It's just sometimes it feels like he tries to hide me.

Child Therapist 1:

I don't think that it's much of a big deal. If you want to contact virtually, you should use text messages, FaceTime or

Child Therapist:

Or Zoom?

Child Therapist 1:

Yeah. Zoom me? Yeah. We could, I guess.

Zack Carter:

I I loved his kinda neutral, like, face. Just, like Yeah. Not not a lot of expression. Yeah but leaning forward leaning forward is kind of a posture of attentiveness right it's like you're engaged you're listening. His solution was kind of off the mark right just missing the point.

Zack Carter:

Mhmm. But, I don't know. I think the theme I'm seeing here is interrupting trying to solve the problem quickly without actually listening longer to get to the deeper issue.

Zack Carter:

Yeah. It feels a lot like first year counseling students is what it feels like. When I was in school, you're practicing counseling together and it jumps to the salute. Well, have you tried? You know you're you're you're slipping up if you start with have have you tried?

Child Therapist:

I get a little grumpy when I have a bad day.

Couple 1 Husband:

Yeah. I come home

Child Therapist:

and I do put it on her sometimes.

Couple 2 Wife:

And I don't know how to deal with this sometimes. Like I don't know how to make him not be grumpy.

Child Therapist:

Do you know how we can fix that?

Child Therapist 1:

Well, I would think probably like if you guys have like other rooms, you could go to one room, and then you can go to one room. Mhmm.

Couple 2 Wife:

Okay.

Child Therapist 1:

And then when you cool down, you can tell her all about it.

Couple 2 Wife:

Mhmm. Yeah. That's a good idea.

Child Therapist:

I don't know why to think of that.

Couple 2 Wife:

We never thought of that. So

Child Therapist:

Good suggestion.

Zack Carter:

Okay. Oh, man. Go to other rooms if you're angry.

Zack Carter:

Not not entirely crazy. I mean, there's something to that. But as you know, Zach, if someone is grumpy, it's probably for a reason, and you probably have to find a way to

Zack Carter:

talk about it calmly, not just separate and pretend like there's no issue. She stumbled onto Gottman. Gottman suggests, hey. Go to separate rooms. Let your central nervous system calm down and then engage in the conversation.

Zack Carter:

So, yeah. I don't know. I thought she did pretty good even though what you're saying is true. I was like, oh, yeah. You are you are supposed to separate sometimes.

Zack Carter:

And her body language was good. Like, you see, she's got the, you

Zack Carter:

know, the notebook, and she's kinda Yeah. Doing the head nod thing.

Zack Carter:

Yeah. The kids all seem dialed in. Like, they seem interested. So, like, they all get a couple points for that. Like, they don't seem like they're off somewhere else.

Zack Carter:

Like, they're, like, pretty they're pretty locked in on what's going on.

Child Therapist:

We sort of disagree on things when it comes to, like, jealousy and, like, fear of losing someone. Like, all relationships end and it is gonna either end in breakup, in death, or divorce.

Child Therapist 1:

Are you afraid that I will lose I will leave you?

Zack Carter:

No. Okay.

Child Therapist 1:

Just wondering. So

Child Therapist 1:

I don't know. You guys had to choose, would you propose right now?

Child Therapist:

Propose right now? What

Zack Carter:

nice.

Child Therapist 1:

Just straight up pull out a ring and propose right there.

Zack Carter:

Let's go. That's like That's a yes if I've ever heard

Child Therapist:

plan that, so I would I would say no.

Child Therapist 1:

No. Like, if you had it planned, though.

Child Therapist:

Oh, if I had it planned, of course.

Zack Carter:

Yes. Wow. Like Look

Child Therapist:

at her face. Right now and just get down on my knee, that wouldn't make sense.

Child Therapist 1:

Well, I think of it like a rink, like karate. Do you have, like, this belt? You're at the second highest ranking, and then when you get married, you go to a black belt.

Child Therapist 1:

Okay. So you think it'd be, like, a level up?

Child Therapist 1:

Yes. Okay.

Zack Carter:

Alright. Thoughts on recommending clients get married?

Zack Carter:

Not only get married, but propose in the therapist's office. Nice. Which is a disaster. This is this is a thing. Right?

Zack Carter:

Females in general, they don't just want a ring and love and the right guy, they want a great proposal story. A proposal story to tell their friends that's romantic and well thought out. There is something about him stirring the pot like that that's kind of like, okay, what is the temperature in this relationship? Where is this headed? Is there love?

Zack Carter:

Is there commitment? Is this a conversation that like, okay, we're moving toward marriage or like, hey, time to have a reality check?

Zack Carter:

Yeah, they looked very uncomfortable. So I'm sure there was a conversation after they they left the recording for sure. And as a as a jujitsu guy, I love his belt analogy. Level up

Zack Carter:

to the black belt. I love

Zack Carter:

Level up to marriage, bro.

Couple 1 Wife:

Okay. So at at home, we live together, and I do everything around the house. And he's great at cooking, so he does the cooking, but I do everything else. Do you think that's fair amount of chores? Mhmm.

Couple 1 Wife:

No. How can we make that more fair?

Child Therapist 1:

Do you do fifth 50% of the house and he does the and then he does the other 50%?

Couple 1 Husband:

Yeah. But cooking is a lot of work. You have to chop the stuff. You have to buy the stuff. I cook every single day, but you only clean every three or four days.

Couple 1 Wife:

I clean the kitchen every day.

Couple 1 Husband:

That's true.

Child Therapist 1:

Yeah. You have a point. I have an idea. First, teach her how to cook. Okay?

Couple 1 Husband:

That's true. That's a good idea.

Child Therapist 1:

First, start at eggs. Even I can make scrambled eggs. You just turn the oven on, get a pan, crack the eggs, scramble them up. Done.

Couple 1 Wife:

Thank you for teaching. So he should teach me how to cook. I should help him cook more, and he should help me clean more. Yes. I love that.

Zack Carter:

Yeah, seems like a lot of his solutions are fiftyfifty.

Zack Carter:

Yeah, I mean I would want to know how many hours they're putting into earning money outside of the home because that's part of that's part of the equation. You can't just say fiftyfifty and then it turns out one person's working eighty hours a week and another person's working ten. That doesn't work. I don't know if this is the case for this guy,

Zack Carter:

but people sometimes like to be

Zack Carter:

a little self righteous or a little bit of the martyr thing, right? So man, a lot of time cooking and and getting the groceries and chopping things up. And the idea of like handing over the reins so she would cook some food that's maybe not as good. It's like does he really want to give that up? Maybe he doesn't want to

Child Therapist:

give it up, but he

Zack Carter:

wants to complain about it.

Child Therapist:

Her and my sister don't really get along. Mhmm.

Couple 2 Wife:

Yeah. And I I'm not sure why. You know, I I don't know how to talk to her if she doesn't talk to me.

Child Therapist:

Mhmm.

Couple 2 Wife:

So how do you think I should try to befriend her?

Child Therapist 1:

Probably get her like a gift and tell her how you really feel like, oh, think you're not like being nice and probably say something like that.

Couple 2 Wife:

Okay. Well, do you think she would wanna talk to me though?

Child Therapist 1:

Probably. Yeah. Give her flowers and a card or like a teddy bear like most people do kind of.

Couple 2 Wife:

Oh. Okay.

Child Therapist:

She loves an eye on my birthday for Christmas.

Couple 2 Wife:

Oh, you see? Yeah. You should've told me that.

Child Therapist:

Well, there you go.

Zack Carter:

You know, one thing I'm getting here is that I would not advise getting therapy from a kid, but there is something about, you know, like that statement of everything you need to learn you learn in kindergarten, like these basic rules for life kind of thing. There is like a nugget of wisdom in a lot of the kind of really quick responses these kids have.

Child Therapist:

Like

Zack Carter:

this is there's probably some deep issue with why the sister doesn't like her. But if she unexpectedly gave her like a teddy bear and flowers and a card and be like, hey. I want to have a better relationship with you. Sorry. Sometimes things like that

Zack Carter:

can shake things up. So we have Gavin, who's fiftyfifty solutions have been interesting. We've got Evan, and we've got Isabelle. Where would you rank them as therapists? One, two,

Zack Carter:

and three. In my gut, I'm gonna go with the girl as number one. Isabelle as number one? Yep. K.

Zack Carter:

I'm gonna go with Karate Man as number two. And then the other the Pokemon guy is number three.

Zack Carter:

Okay. So Evan's number two. Gavin's number three. That is so interesting because I was thinking Gavin's like my boy. Like, I like his rapport.

Zack Carter:

I think his solutions are are kind of there. I just think he gets there too quick. Like, and he does need to stop talking about himself so much. Maybe Isabelle is number two and Evan is number three. Although, I do like the, like you said, like, the lean forward and seeming interested.

Zack Carter:

I did like that, but I feel like Isabelle gave better insights than Evan. I'm just offended that you didn't agree with my order, Zach. I think it was wrong.

Zack Carter:

No, well you all I think the only way to mend this is if you mail me a teddy bear.

Zack Carter:

And tell you you're wrong into your face.

Zack Carter:

This is good Zach. I had no idea that's what we were in for today, but it was interesting and entertaining. But all joking aside if if anybody wants to learn more about getting counseling or therapy from an adult you could check out escapethecagenow.com book a clarity call with me or Zach, and happy to talk more. Right. Alright.

Zack Carter:

Thanks, guys.

Zack Carter:

Bye, everybody.