Another Zelda Podcast

Kady and David dive into their first impressions of Echoes of Wisdom. They discuss Kady’s marathon playthrough, the game’s fresh mechanics, and the excitement of finally playing as Zelda. From clever echoes-based combat to deep dives into the lore of Link’s muteness and the dynamics between River and Sea Zora, they explore the rich world-building and creative gameplay twists that make this game stand out. Along the way, they touch on the emotional depth of the story, the charm of new sidekick Tri, and what makes this 2D-style adventure feel truly revolutionary. It’s an episode full of discovery, laughs, and a few unexpected moments!

Find a bunch of great extras on our Patreon page: https://www.patreon.com/anotherzeldapodcast
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Another Pokémon Podcast - It’s super effective! | Another Pokémon Podcast is a show wherein we talk about all things regarding the Pokémon series!

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Creators & Guests

Host
David Geisler

What is Another Zelda Podcast?

It’s a secret to everybody. | Another Zelda Podcast is a show wherein we talk about all things regarding The Legend of Zelda series!

Kady Roberts:

Hello, and welcome to another episode of another Zelda podcast. My name is Katie Roberts, and I'm here with my co host, David Geisler.

David Geisler:

That's right. You hesitated.

Kady Roberts:

I thought you were gonna say your own name, but that's okay.

David Geisler:

We did make eye contact, so maybe I queued you up for it.

Kady Roberts:

Yeah. No. It's okay. It's okay. You know what?

Kady Roberts:

Accidents happen.

David Geisler:

Accidents happen. Cool. Alright, Katie. Well, I'll see myself out. Have a great show.

Kady Roberts:

Yes. I I now live in your apartment. Yeah. So we just had our first episode of season 7, and it was very long, but a really passionate discussion.

David Geisler:

We were talking about Ocarina of Time. How can you not have I mean, it's like you just there's so much to say.

Kady Roberts:

Yeah. I was honestly nervous going into it because it had been, like, a couple months since I played it, and I'm like, what am I gonna say? But then we actually started the conversation and it was natural.

David Geisler:

Well, you played Ocarina of Time 3 d and then we were kind of waiting for me to finish it. It was taking me a while to get through it. So, yeah. Then while you were waiting, I think you went on and kinda started dipping into some other Zelda games and I'm sure. Some other stuff.

David Geisler:

It was a little, like, like, wait. It was a little bit, like, wait. What was happening in that moment? Yeah.

Kady Roberts:

It was awesome.

David Geisler:

It was good.

Kady Roberts:

Yeah. No. It works out. But that's not what we're talking about today.

David Geisler:

What are we talking about today?

Kady Roberts:

Today, we're talking about echoes of wisdom. Oh. My now second favorite Zelda game just because breath still has a Fascinating. Big part of my heart. Yeah.

Kady Roberts:

Fantastic. So where this is gonna be, so this is gonna be a first impressions episode.

David Geisler:

I think kinda like what we did with tears of the kingdom last

Kady Roberts:

season. Absolutely. However, I have finished this game already.

David Geisler:

Cool humble brag.

Kady Roberts:

Not really a humble brag, more like a I have no life brag. So I can just sit and play for 12 hours every day.

David Geisler:

Oh, that'd be so much fun. That'd be great.

Kady Roberts:

Because I literally beat this game. I had it on preorder, and then as soon as it dropped, I downloaded it and started playing it. And I beat it within the week, with 50 hours in, 50, 50 hours.

David Geisler:

You kind of marathoned it,

Kady Roberts:

Oh, I marathoned that.

David Geisler:

Sure.

Kady Roberts:

Absolutely. So, yeah, I love the game.

David Geisler:

This was the first 2 d Zelda game that you were able to experience organically as it came out. That's kinda cool. Is it does it count as well, I guess

Kady Roberts:

it does count as 2 d because you can't, like, rotate the camera.

David Geisler:

It's absolutely in my opinion, it's absolutely as much as Link's Awakening is 2 d 2

Kady Roberts:

d with 3 d models. Interface.

David Geisler:

Yeah. Yeah. Cool. You know, I don't know. You can we can get in technicalities if it's, like, 2 and a half d or not.

David Geisler:

A lot of times side scrollers will have that aesthetic or not. But I think that in the world of Zelda games, there's 2 different kinds of gameplay styles. Mhmm. And there's what we would consider or or maybe we could rather instead of saying 2 d, we could say, like, a top down Zelda game.

Kady Roberts:

Yeah.

David Geisler:

Or a but, you know, kind of a top down 2 d because there are most of the the last really 2 d Zelda game might have been Minish Cap. The one that did you know, because then after that, it was A Link Between Worlds and that was 3 d models and then, of course, Link's Awakening, the remake, 3 d models. But it's in the style of a 2 d top down game.

Kady Roberts:

But, so, yeah, with that being said, I'm gonna try not to spoil anything.

David Geisler:

Well, okay. So I'm 3 dungeons. I was

Kady Roberts:

gonna say, we'll we'll talk about the first three dungeons stopping right before castle, kingdom, dungeon thing.

David Geisler:

Apparently, that's where I'm going next.

Kady Roberts:

And that is where you're going next.

David Geisler:

I chose to go to the Zoras first, and then I went to the Gerudo after that. And I just did the Gerudo boss, like, 2 nights ago.

Kady Roberts:

I did Gerudo first Oh. And then Zora. But that shouldn't change too much. Yeah.

David Geisler:

I wonder if maybe the bosses just get a little if they just scale the difficulty or something a little bit. I don't know. Or maybe nothing changes.

Kady Roberts:

Yeah. I I would imagine probably nothing changes. But before we go into that, we should do some listener feedback.

David Geisler:

Absolutely.

Kady Roberts:

Do you wanna start us off or you don't mind?

David Geisler:

Sure. Let's try it. Yeah. You wanna start us off by? I don't think we planned it this way.

David Geisler:

Apple Podcasts. I must have put that on there. Because sometimes we get the crops wrong. Sometimes I don't crop I crop it so tight that you can't tell what service it was on. Well, anyways, over here, we have, on Apple Podcasts from jack attack 108.

David Geisler:

I like the title of this. Did you see the title of the review?

Kady Roberts:

Oh, no. I didn't.

David Geisler:

Jack attack 108, titles they review, another review on AZP. And, this is back, back in February. This is this is from a while ago. I still love this podcast. Five stars.

David Geisler:

The fact that you are getting so many guests in your episodes amid crazy to me. Maybe it seems crazy to me. I'm still working on tears of the kingdom. I am almost to the end though. I also got the Link's Awakening remake like you suggested.

David Geisler:

Well, that's awesome. That kinda lines up because of course Grezzo did well, we kind of are on a Grezzo thread right now Yeah. Because they did the Ocarina of Time 3 d remake. They got that contract Mhmm. Which then Nintendo gave them the contract to do, Majora's Mask 3 d where they actually kinda changed Agree of Time 3 d was basically a port.

David Geisler:

Majora's Mask, they actually changed some of the code and how it worked. Then of course they did the Link's Awakening remake for the Switch, and Nintendo liked them so much that we could deduce. They said, guess what? Make your own Zelda game.

Kady Roberts:

Yeah.

David Geisler:

And that is echoes of wisdom. So Grezzo also made the game that we're talking about tonight. That's awesome. I hope you enjoy Link's awakening, and hopefully you've played it through already if that, if that review really was from back in February.

Kady Roberts:

Or maybe you're still running around collecting all the little, bunny frog guys in the caves. Who knows? What else we got? So this one is specifically on Breath of Tears Oh. Which was season 6 episode 21, and it's the magical sword edition.

Kady Roberts:

So thank you for being a Patreon.

David Geisler:

Oh, this is okay. Cool.

Kady Roberts:

So it says it's from scruffycat171. Oh, scruffycat. It says, o m g, David. I totally agree about the depths and the light routes. I hate when I get to 1 and it lights up a massive area.

Kady Roberts:

It's so much more fun when you're traveling in the darkness. When I first started playing the depths was my fave, and I would play it like a survivor horror game and just stay down there until I ran out of arrows and or light roots or got to one heart and then warped back to whichever chasm I entered through. Actually, so much fun. Love this app. Both.

David Geisler:

100% Scruffy Cat. Scruffy Cat follows us on Instagram. She's fantastic. I I also spoke to maybe playing down in the depths that way too. I love the depths when they're dark.

David Geisler:

I love being down there and be having to be sneaky. I love just having it feel terrifying everywhere. I love not knowing exactly where I'm going. I love having to wear my glow suit to only see in front of me. I love having to shoot out little small globe, bulbs just to see where I'm going.

David Geisler:

And, yeah, you undo the yeah, you trigger the light routes to continue the game. But sometimes when the darks or when the depths, gets a little too bright, you're like, well, alright. I guess it lost some of its mystery a little bit.

Kady Roberts:

Yeah. It's like more overworld.

David Geisler:

Yeah. It's admittedly it's well, yeah. More overworld. That's interesting. I don't know if I'd wanna play a full game where I can only see 2 feet in front of me, but it is a really well, one of my favorite parts of Breath of the Wild was that's that little sheik, that little, quest for the shrine.

David Geisler:

I was I kept saying I was saying Sheikah in my head. The shrine quest where you go to the super dark area where all the light is just the light from the things that are made in the area. You know, you have just so that the light of your sword or the the the things you light up with fire. Yeah. I love light mechanics in video games.

David Geisler:

And so the depth for me is a very similar kind of experience. Totally agree, Scruffy. No. That's awesome. Back over.

David Geisler:

Alright. This is over on Apple Podcasts. Sprigatito lover.

Kady Roberts:

Oh, Sprigatito. That's a that's a Pokemon.

David Geisler:

Sprigatito lover. Fantastic. Best pod ever for green heart emojis over in August. Let's just go over our break. They said, I love this podcast so much.

David Geisler:

I love Zelda. 1 of my best friends got me into Tears of the Kingdom when it came out, but my parents made me beat Breath of the Wild first. Oh, that's funny. Then I tried both the Oracle games, Link's Awakening and Link's Awakening DX, perhaps on the Nintendo online systems. Yeah.

David Geisler:

Or maybe you found the cartridges in an old system somewhere. Oh, the OG Adventure of Link, Link to the Past, and Skyward Sword HD. I love your top 10 episodes, your music episodes, and literally all of your episodes. David Geisler, you got me into most of Zelda and brought so much joy into my gaming life. Sprigatito?

David Geisler:

Sprigatito. Yeah. Sprigatito lover, thank you so much. That's amazing. And then honestly, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 times 8 green heart emojis.

Kady Roberts:

Oh my gosh.

David Geisler:

So you know how we've adopted the green heart emojis, our little secret, love and respect emoji? We have our one thing that's actually happened during our break, Katie, I don't think you and I have had the chance to talk about this. Are you aware, and this is actually fitting with Sprigatito, that Another Zelda podcast has its first spin off show? You may not know

Kady Roberts:

about this. What?

David Geisler:

You holy What? Mother of everything in the world that is good, do you know about another Pokemon podcast?

Kady Roberts:

Oh. Yes.

David Geisler:

Okay. Okay.

Kady Roberts:

You did tell me about this. Yes. I've

David Geisler:

I mean, we haven't chatted much. Yeah. I

Kady Roberts:

mean, I don't know much about it, but no. I've been obsessed with Pokemon recently, which Springhettito, I get it. Very cute, grass type Pokemon starter, but Fuecoco has my heart. Oh. I love him.

Kady Roberts:

He's so derpy.

David Geisler:

I have been working over the past year with, Jacob and Rebecca about producing, making a show, AZP's first official spin off, the first show to actually use the another namesake, another Pokemon podcast.

Kady Roberts:

Oh, and they have the little sprites. That's so

David Geisler:

cute. We used the same Photoshop file to make their graphic. I duplicated it so it's the exact same aesthetic and everything. They're on episode 7 right now. They're doing fantastic.

David Geisler:

They're they're both adorable. They have amazing vibes. I highly recommend another Pokemon podcast. I don't know much about Pokemon which is why I wanted someone to produce it. I was, you know, trying to find a collaboration.

David Geisler:

And I don't know much about Pokemon and I still love their episodes. It's just a blast. They're adorable. Becca has jokes left and right. She she actually, if I if I wanna be honest, if I wanna be honest, Becca and well, Galli Gallitrad and Rebelety, they they have a similar dynamic to, my very first cohost of AZP and I where I used to kinda say things on the show and Kate would just say the weirdest things that would totally throw me off.

David Geisler:

And that kinda, like, became the dynamic. You and I have a a similar dynamic, but it's a little different. I love our dynamic.

Kady Roberts:

Well, again

David Geisler:

It's it's fantastic. We have that whole kind of, like, approaching Zelda from different points of view dynamic. Love it. And I actually think it's made the show even better and more interesting, because of that dynamic, Katie. So no no no knock on that at all.

David Geisler:

Not at all. However

Kady Roberts:

Yeah.

David Geisler:

Beck, Rebelati and, I mean, Rebelety. Oh my gosh. I said it, Rebecca. Rebeleit Rebel Adi no. Rebelety.

David Geisler:

That's the right one. Forever. This is gonna be forever in my brain. And Gallutrad, they have the exact same dynamic. He's he'll he'll lay it down be oh, you know, he'll hit he'll have funny things to say, but then Rebelety will just say the zaniest things and the dynamics there, and it's so much fun to listen to them and they're amazing.

David Geisler:

So if you, spit Spitatito? Sprigatito. Sprigatito lover, if you enjoy this show, thank you so much. So happy you do. Another Pokemon podcast also exists and they're just having a great time too.

David Geisler:

But what's happened recently for another Pokemon podcast is the community that's listening to that show has decided to use red and white alternating hearts as their secret emojis in the comments. You. And there was a comment for another Pokemon podcast that literally said, you know, I listened to AZP or another Zelda podcast and we do the green hearts. Why don't we do red and white for another Pokemon podcast? And now the community's picked that up.

Kady Roberts:

That is so cute. I love that.

David Geisler:

Oh, I'm so proud of them and I'm just so proud of, like, the show and everything and it's so cool. So, anyways, I'm definitely gonna throw an ad for that show in this

Kady Roberts:

episode. Most love to them. I hope they keep getting more and more hype and keep blowing up. That's amazing.

David Geisler:

I will I don't mind saying that they've been at it for 3 months now Mhmm. And their growth trajectory over the past 3 months is identical to AZP's growth trajectory for its 3 months. So I'm tremendously proud of them. I think they're I think they're on to good things.

Kady Roberts:

That's so cool. So much love. Oh my gosh.

David Geisler:

Cool. Okay. What else we got?

Kady Roberts:

Okay. This

David Geisler:

I didn't expect any of that.

Kady Roberts:

This is the last one that we have for today. I think this is on Apple Podcasts. It's not labeled.

David Geisler:

No. I think it's like an Instagram DM or something. I don't know. It's okay. We we have to start doing better job at labeling.

Kady Roberts:

It's specifically for the episode, the Gerudo from season 6 episode 24 that

David Geisler:

we need to talk about.

Kady Roberts:

And this says, I love your idea about Groose with 4 green hearts. It was I was talking about how Bruce could be the origin of the Gerudo. Yeah. Have you done Ocarina of time music? If not, I would love that with even more green hearts.

Kady Roberts:

PS, I am I would like to hear your thoughts about echoes of wisdom, plea p p s, great podcast. So Well,

David Geisler:

there we go.

Kady Roberts:

We're we're making your dreams come true today. Oh, I didn't say who this was. Kailia dot Partchart, I believe, is how you pronounce that.

David Geisler:

Well, Kailia, we saw that coming and decided to do this episode here.

Kady Roberts:

Just for you.

David Geisler:

No. We knew we wanna do this, but I'm so happy that you requested it as well. And, and let's see. We'll we'll do a proper echoes of wisdom review episode at some point. Absolutely.

David Geisler:

Just like the proper choose of the kingdom, but we just can't help ourselves. And we do wanna talk about our first impressions a little bit.

Kady Roberts:

Yes. So jumping straight into it. Alright. This is gonna be weird, me leading this, but I'm gonna do my best.

David Geisler:

We can go anywhere, I think. Right? Yeah. I mean, so the game starts, obviously, with you playing as Link at the beginning.

Kady Roberts:

Yeah. So obviously, with you playing as Link at

David Geisler:

the beginning.

Kady Roberts:

Yeah. So what what what how are you feeling about going in with that?

David Geisler:

Well, I saw the trailer. And in fact, I was lucky enough to see the reveal trailer on the Nintendo Direct while participating in the Zelda dungeon marathon.

Kady Roberts:

I was watching it upstairs when it happened.

David Geisler:

And and fun fun fact, a little bit by accident, I'm actually in their video. I'm sitting in one of the chairs while they were reacting to the, Dungeons on over on the another the Zelda dungeon YouTube channel. You can see their reactions to the trailer. Oh, no. Oh.

David Geisler:

Oh. I just spilled water on my Nintendo 64 controller, and I hope things are alright. I'm sure it'll be fine. That's my Nintendo Switch Nintendo 64 controller.

Kady Roberts:

This is the

David Geisler:

fancy one. One.

Kady Roberts:

Hell no.

David Geisler:

We will set it there. Anybody have a bowl of rice?

Kady Roberts:

Yeah. Big bowl.

David Geisler:

I spilled a little bit of water. Alright. I mean, we'll just take our chances here. I'm sure it'll be fine. That was not a huge splash.

David Geisler:

It'll be

Kady Roberts:

okay. They're well built. Right?

David Geisler:

I think we're keeping that in the edit. Let's keep it in the show. Yep. Just keep going. Anyway, so that was a ton of fun to see that trailer.

David Geisler:

So because I saw the trailer, I knew the gimmick, I knew the switch, I knew that we'd probably even I even assumed that from trailer, that probably was gonna be the beginning of the game. And when that was the beginning of the game and it was Link running up, I was like, okay. Here we go. I was fine with it. We knew where it was going.

David Geisler:

I even even the trailer kinda depicted Zelda running out of the dungeon. There was a few extra little scenes that wasn't in the trailer, but none of that was a surprise, I guess, because we saw the trailer.

Kady Roberts:

For me, I maybe I wasn't putting context to this together. It was a huge surprise. Really? I mean, I knew I was playing as Zelda, but when I first started it and I was playing as Link and he looked, I mean, it's the same operating system, the same looks as Link's Awakening HD. I was immediately like, wait, what?

Kady Roberts:

What's going on? I I thought I was Zelda in this game because I thought what was gonna happen from watching the trailer was it's just a cutscene of link going in fighting and then Zelda, you start playing Zelda. I didn't realized, oh, I'm going in this. And then when you immediately jump into a Ganon fight

David Geisler:

Uh-huh.

Kady Roberts:

I was like, okay. I guess we're doing this.

David Geisler:

And, yeah, I I could see how maybe the trailer you could infer that you were as Zelda get trapped in the gem and then Link comes to get you or something. But anyway yeah. Trapped in a gem. So funny. Such a trope.

David Geisler:

And I'm glad that they, like, literally used that as the trope and then she breaks out.

Kady Roberts:

Yeah. I like that, it's because he, like, fires the arrow and then he falls in and then she can break out finally.

David Geisler:

Mhmm.

Kady Roberts:

And we talked about this on the last episode about the stress of running as Link down from the tower, which what I saw

David Geisler:

Oh, in Ocarina of Time? Yeah. At the end of the game when you run and the castle's falling? Yeah. Yeah.

Kady Roberts:

Which originally when I watched the Nintendo Direct, it starts with them running down together. I thought originally it was gonna be an Ocarina of Time remake Wow. Until, like, obviously later in the game, or in the trailer, it's very obvious it's not. But, I had that same kind of feeling when I was running from as Zelda of, like, logically, I'm sure they gave me plenty of time to do this, but I am stressed.

David Geisler:

Yeah. What I don't think there was a timer, but I I even practiced a few times. I actually stopped running a few times just to test the the the engine, and it sucks you up.

Kady Roberts:

Oh, it really does.

David Geisler:

Yeah. I fell I fell into the abyss 2 or 3 times just kinda testing how it would work.

Kady Roberts:

But yeah. So fantastic. You get back as Zelda. You go to the castle, reunite with your dad. This is the first time we really get to see castle town, like, kinda normal, I guess.

David Geisler:

Yeah. It reminded me a little bit of the castle town in Minish Cap, but that's just that was just vibes, really. Yeah. I I loved it. Do you really are you really in castle town right away?

David Geisler:

I thought you go down to that southern shore or whatever first.

Kady Roberts:

Well, at first, you go back to castle town and then you talk with the king and you talk to, which I think is very funny, minister left and general right.

David Geisler:

I did not pick that up.

Kady Roberts:

Yeah. And they stand on those sides of the king. But then that is when the big void comes, sucks them in, king comes back out.

David Geisler:

Yes. I remember this now. Take it to the dungeon. Oh, and, yeah, then he's in echo, and he's saying the bad things. Yes.

David Geisler:

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. This is coming back to me.

Kady Roberts:

And that's when the game really starts. Mhmm. And when you first get to meet Tri

David Geisler:

Mhmm.

Kady Roberts:

Which I need a marketable plushie of Tri right now, Nintendo. Please give me a plushie. Sure. What do you think of your your little sidekick for the game?

David Geisler:

I have zero thoughts about Try, but I'm not trying to take anything away from Try. Try is adorable. Try is amazing. Try is not annoying. Try is not I forget that Try is there most of the time, which I think is good.

David Geisler:

Yeah. You know? It's it's try is just a visualization of a you know, I love the little triangles to let you know how many units of whatever you have. I love it when things that could be UI on screen are represented inside the game. Yes.

David Geisler:

You know? I think that's so cool. I think that Nintendo did a great job with that. I when I remember playing the game, I remember Zelda. I don't even remember the little yellow thing floating behind her.

David Geisler:

Like, I don't even notice it. Really? And when she go when she reaches out for the green is probably when I when I really notice Try. And that's not to say I don't like Try.

Kady Roberts:

Well, no.

David Geisler:

Not at

Kady Roberts:

all. Yeah. I just I think Try is my favorite sidekick in any Zelda game.

David Geisler:

Let's do it. Let's talk about it.

Kady Roberts:

I love him them. I like Try.

David Geisler:

I like how It feels like it presents kind of male.

Kady Roberts:

Just like him? Yeah. I don't know. I just like Try a lot. I think, obviously the abilities that Try gives you is really cool, but while Try doesn't have too much care, Well, actually, that's not true.

Kady Roberts:

As you play the game, you will get to love Try more and more because someone tries Try starts to gain a character and starts to actually poke through the dialogue. And I think that's where my love really comes from. So I'm excited for later when we actually do a deep dive.

David Geisler:

It's true. Most of my interactions with Try right now is like, oh, that hole's not big enough. I can't help it yet. Or here's all my friends. They helped me get more power.

David Geisler:

Yeah. Which is fun.

Kady Roberts:

Great. Yeah. I'm actually glad

David Geisler:

that Try isn't more present, that it's not like a full character always tagging on. Absolutely. Like, I kinda like that it's an extension of the Zelda, I don't know. I almost said character, but, like, sprite. It's not even a sprite model.

David Geisler:

Yeah. I don't know.

Kady Roberts:

But yeah. Which Try obviously gives you, access to the echoes. Yeah. I access to the echoes. How have you been feeling about the echoes?

David Geisler:

I I think I'm liking it. Yeah. I think I like it quite a bit. I I did enjoy in the begin oh, that's right. Because when you first start using the echoes too, it's then escaping the castle.

David Geisler:

Mhmm. Which is a fun twist on two things. Escaping the castle, it was evoking Ocarina of Time hiding from the guards a little bit. Yeah. And then it was a little bit of, like, getting out of the castle.

David Geisler:

There's a little bit of a link to the past in there for me. And I really liked I felt that that hallway specifically was set up in a really nice way because you could either just try to run through or just try to try to, brute force it or you could sneak up around.

Kady Roberts:

You can throw stuff to distract them.

David Geisler:

Yes. Yeah. You could just, like, try to get up on the bookcases and keep moving or you do the full on, like, stealthy distract and then go for it. I caught I got caught once or twice because I was playing around a little bit. Me too.

David Geisler:

Like, in the engine, I was kinda like, oh, I wanna see what I can do.

Kady Roberts:

Yeah.

David Geisler:

Do you have the bed at that point? I think you might.

Kady Roberts:

Yeah. You get the bed in the jail cell.

David Geisler:

Yeah. That's right. And so, yeah, you use the bed to build the staircase to get out of the jail cell, I think.

Kady Roberts:

Which the bed is I mean, everyone's been saying it online. It is such an amazing

David Geisler:

scope. It's the one. It's the one. It's not

Kady Roberts:

easy to use, Santac. It's the

David Geisler:

one you use.

Kady Roberts:

I will say, though, like, common build for me early in the game before everyone was, like, talking about the bed and I was like, oh, yeah. The bed is pretty great. I would do, like, a table onto a

David Geisler:

Box or something?

Kady Roberts:

A box onto a tree.

David Geisler:

Yeah. And then

Kady Roberts:

I would get off that ladder.

David Geisler:

I mean, that's pretty good too.

Kady Roberts:

Yeah. And I would put like a little trampoline on top of the the box so I could spring up to the tree.

David Geisler:

Yeah. I use the trampoline a lot.

Kady Roberts:

But yeah. I love the echoes in this game. I think it's such a fun mechanic where you're able to these monsters that have been terrorizing Zelda forever, she is now in command in a in a sense and can kinda throw them in. And I don't know if you've recognized this, but if they haven't seen you yet, like, if, say, you're going against a Bokoblin, and you have a Bokoblin echo, and they haven't seen you and noticed you as an enemy, you can throw a Bokoblin sprite in, and it can start to attack them without them realizing

David Geisler:

Yeah.

Kady Roberts:

To start. Yeah. Because they're just like, oh, another bacoblin.

David Geisler:

Yep. Yep. They don't really real they don't see that you spawned it. Yeah. So cool.

Kady Roberts:

It's so cool.

David Geisler:

And it's really smart calling them echoes. Very, very smart because, structurally, some of this can get a little weird. It's like you're taking the a if you're if you're spawning a a bacoblin, you're taking their agency away from them. They might be dying for you. But by calling them echoes, you're not actually committing these acts on a sentient creature.

David Geisler:

I think you're kinda it's like having them be like AI in the game. I think that was the right way to handle it. Absolutely. Let's put it that way.

Kady Roberts:

No. I absolutely think so. I think it's it's just so fun. There's so many different ways and so many different things you can do throughout this game, and I think that's also why I really gravit towards gravitated towards it is because it does function as an open world game. Yeah.

Kady Roberts:

It doesn't look like one, but it is one. And so when I started playing the game, my first thing I did was unlock everything on the map.

David Geisler:

Oh, really? Yeah.

Kady Roberts:

Went through the story.

David Geisler:

I accidentally, like, went to Deku first on my way to Zora, and part of me was like, can I do this? Am I supposed to be doing this right now? And then part of me was like, I don't wanna be doing this. I I wanna, you know, whatever.

Kady Roberts:

But you have seen the Deku.

David Geisler:

I've gone to their town, and I immediately 180'd and then like went back to Zora, which is funny because I usually do like to explore like in Breath of Wild in Tears. Yeah. I often talk about how I just wanna go walk around and do my own thing. I will I did my first experience with the open worldiness of this game Mhmm. Happened pretty early on and I'd like to share the story real quick.

David Geisler:

No. Absolutely. I was the the graphics in this game look very similar to the Link's Awakening graphics as far as, like, the trees are all kind of the same height and all that. Mhmm. You know, they're all, like, 2 blocks high and I think they did a really good job in this game of continuing the theme of what would be a grid based game like a 2 d top down Zelda, but also letting the models be a little bit it looks less squared off than the Link's Awakening remake looks.

David Geisler:

Yeah. Anyways, so I was, I was I think I had gone through, like, the southern cave or whatever. Sudden Southern Norn cave. I don't even know how to say it. But and I'd come out and I think I probably had a bacoblin echo at this point.

David Geisler:

Mhmm. And I'd like to say one more thing about the echoes later. But, and I spawned him or it and he spawned kind of up on half up on top of one of the trees. And I thought, oof, rough. Oof, that's a glitch.

David Geisler:

Yikes. Oh, they didn't because because in Link's Awakening, you can't even go on the trees. The trees are walls in Link's Awakening. And I was like, oh, can you is that okay? Is that can that happen in this game?

David Geisler:

Oh, I don't know. And then he kinda walked off the tree and about a half a minute later, I started building a bed staircase. And I was like, wait. Can I can I walk on these trees?

Kady Roberts:

Oh, it gets even more crazy later in some of the echoes that you got.

David Geisler:

I'm sure. And I've already done a few where I'm flying around and stuff like that. But, I start I built a bridge up and I started traversing the land on top of the trees and I was, like, shortcutting to all these different areas. I immediately climbed up to the highest place I could find like I would in Breath of the Wild Mhmm. And unlock certain parts of the map and then I go back down.

David Geisler:

I definitely, like, jumped over into the desert by accident and then got back up out of there. And at first, I was like at first, I thought it was it was, you know, I was so conditioned that a 2 d game couldn't be like Breath of the Wild, let's say, that I thought I was breaking the game at first. And then I realized, though, oh, they had to code this thing. This thing is coded three dimensionally.

Kady Roberts:

Oh, absolutely. I I had the same experience even where, like, some of those smaller trees, I was like, oh, yeah. Climb up them or whatever. There's some, like, really big thick ones that, like, it feels like purposely block you from the map, but you can just climb on top of them. In some parts of the map, you have to do that to access.

David Geisler:

I'm using I'm using the I'm using the the the crawly spider a lot to get up.

Kady Roberts:

Yeah. I always forgot that had that.

David Geisler:

Well, that one's interesting because it requires to use both of your powers, I guess. Yeah. Well, actually, almost 3 of your powers. You have to spawn the spider, then grab it with your green light of energy, and then hold down r so that you move with the item. Remember that mechanic?

David Geisler:

And then it makes you wait list and then you can track along. So that's actually a pretty that's a pretty complicated mechanic to pull off if you think if it takes 3 steps, you know? Yeah.

Kady Roberts:

Because it

David Geisler:

did take a while for me to, like, kinda figure that out. But once you start tracking along with how you can pull yourself along with other echoes, it really starts to get interesting and kind of exciting. And I've also seen things that I haven't been able to do. You can sometimes cleverly, like, attach echoes to other echoes or I know the Deku Baba, you can really put it on other stuff I've seen on the Internet already and have it move around.

Kady Roberts:

I was gonna say people have been putting it on tables and then picking up the table to move it around to eat people.

David Geisler:

There we go. Yeah. That's cool. Interesting. So that was my story about thinking I broke the game and having to be open world and I was like, oh, I can go on oh, you can go on the trees even though the trees look just like Link's Awakening.

David Geisler:

That was one of those maybe it was similar to like Breath of the Wild when I was like, oh, I I can just climb this rock wall? Yeah. Or I can just go up and over from my home cave and go into this frozen area?

Kady Roberts:

Yeah.

David Geisler:

And you have those moments where it's really cool and that's I think one of the things that echoes of wisdom has done very well and it really got me excited in the beginning. Oh, another thing in the beginning when they teach you z targeting. Mhmm. Z targeting was invented in Ocarina of Time.

Kady Roberts:

Mhmm.

David Geisler:

I mean, that's like that was like a new user interface mechanic. All the games do it now in one way or another. Most 3 d games have some kind of, you know, it's passive or active of a z targeting thing. And I had this moment where I was like, oh my gosh, you can z target in a 2 d game and circle strafe. Why have we never done this before?

David Geisler:

That's

Kady Roberts:

what I was saying. I feel like this game is revolutionary in its own way with some of the things it's been doing. I just oh, it's so good.

David Geisler:

They're bringing game mechanics that have been developed in the, let's say, 3 d games or you could say the open world games, but I I'll say 3 d games. Yeah. Because even some of the older Zelda games, and they're bringing those mechanics to a, what I'm calling, 2 d experience, a top down experience. And it's so cool to play a game that feels classic, but is informed by modern game mechanics.

Kady Roberts:

That's what I've really latched on to about it because I love playing Link's Awakening HD. Yeah. And so then going to this, it's like this is everything that I loved about playing that game and more Cool. Added in. But really quickly before we go to our break Yeah.

David Geisler:

Yeah. Sure. What's up?

Kady Roberts:

I wanna talk really quick about Link as a character in this game.

David Geisler:

Okay.

Kady Roberts:

Because he this is the first game that link I mean, you can say, like, he has character as you play him in some of the games, but this is the first one where he really is his own character. You're not playing as him. You're not projecting your own stuff onto him. He is his own character, and you can see that reflected through everything. Because the first thing that happens when you leave Souththorn is you go to Souththorn Village.

David Geisler:

How did you say it? Souththorn?

Kady Roberts:

Souththorn is how I pronounce it.

David Geisler:

I think that's probably accurate. I think it's probably true. I mean, I just think I keep saying it wrong.

Kady Roberts:

Oh, no.

David Geisler:

You're fine. Sawthorn? Yeah. Because it's a play on Southern. Right?

Kady Roberts:

I think so. Yeah.

David Geisler:

Okay.

Kady Roberts:

Which that just makes me think of a Southern link, which is funny. But Southern link. Well, you know,

David Geisler:

I don't know. Implications of, like, a rural town or something or southern town. But anyway, yeah. So Link

Kady Roberts:

You go to Southern Village and you find out that this is where Link is from. Yeah. And you get to talk to all these people that have all these different recounts of Link and things that they did for him and, oh, he was so funny as a kid or he did this or he did that. And then you really feel it too when you go to Blueberry's house, who's kind of this game's version of Purah, I feel. He even has the same theme music as Purah.

Kady Roberts:

Oh. And you get to talk to him, and he him and Link are like the same as Impa and Zelda in this game. I don't have you talked to him?

David Geisler:

It's not ringing a bell. There's one there was a I don't really talk to that Renee Purple yet.

Kady Roberts:

Oh, okay. Well, you can.

David Geisler:

I went into there was one building I went into and there was, like yeah. I think maybe it was per there was there was, like got,

Kady Roberts:

like, a big machine

David Geisler:

in the corner. Yeah. There's a machine in the corner, and then there was, like, blankets and pillows and other. There's, like, 3 characters, and they do kinda talk about Link. This is

Kady Roberts:

a different area than what you're thinking.

David Geisler:

Really? I I remember being in Southern Village, and I was just like I skipped all the houses. I was I was climbing trees.

Kady Roberts:

That's okay. But, yeah, if you talk

David Geisler:

to all

Kady Roberts:

of them, they all got different things about Link. And then you go down a little ways out and you can find this house, which is good for later in the game because you collect stuff and you can level up your, your other form, your fighting form.

David Geisler:

Really?

Kady Roberts:

Yes. You can level up your sword, your other things that you will get.

David Geisler:

I think I am at level 2 with my sword. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

David Geisler:

Cool.

Kady Roberts:

But him, if you talk to him, you get a huge lore drop. I was screaming.

David Geisler:

I gotta check this out.

Kady Roberts:

I don't know if you want me to say it. It's about Link in this game.

David Geisler:

How about 2 things? First of all, I am only I'm probably 2 hours into this game right now, maybe 3 hours into this game. And I've I've I've been playing it in, like, 15 minute bites because it's that's what fits my schedule. And I've mostly been trying to experience, like, the the mechanics of the game and stuff. And I don't think I've, like, given myself enough time to drop into the lore.

David Geisler:

Mhmm. Quite frankly, the most reading I've done so far and it's so funny because we were just talking about this in the Ocarina episode, how you were, like, slowing yourself down. Not that I was trying to play fast, but, like, I'm really just reading I read the Gerudo stuff and the storylines around that to get to the dungeon and I read the Zora stuff and the rivers and the the Zora, you know, read all that, but I haven't done a lot of extracurricular chatting yet. Yeah. But this is inspiring me to do so.

David Geisler:

I think I'm at a point in the game where I'm pretty sure I'm I'm it's obvious. I think that the link we're seeing is like an echo or something Oh, yes. Because there's, like, the the bad echo versions. Mhmm. And I think I'm about to go to I think I'm, like, kind of done with maybe the first act of the game by doing the first three dungeons.

David Geisler:

So I'm excited about this game. I'm into the lore. I'm into the storyline. I think part of being a fan of Zelda games for me, if I do learn things about something that's gonna come, that still makes it fun for me. Okay.

David Geisler:

So I'm comfortable if you wanna chat a little bit about some of this stuff. It'll be just as fun

Kady Roberts:

I was gonna say, this doesn't spoil anything for the game. It's just a lore thing that I thought was amazing.

David Geisler:

Oh, let's hear it. Let's hear it. That was that took way too long to say, yes, please tell me.

Kady Roberts:

No. No. No. No. It's okay.

Kady Roberts:

It makes me feel better about it.

David Geisler:

Okay.

Kady Roberts:

So this whole thing, you can go and see in the Gerudo town as well. You can find a girl. There's this thing of when the rifts open up, kids falling in, and when they come out, they are not the same. And with that, it's mainly that they cannot speak. They lose their voice.

Kady Roberts:

They become mute.

David Geisler:

Holy moly.

Kady Roberts:

And with that, he explains that Link is mute in this game. He canonically, is mute and he communicates through signs or nodding his head and things

David Geisler:

like that. That is brilliant. It's huge. Because when Link's the playable character, we've already talked about how Well, yeah.

Kady Roberts:

A lot of people have already headcanoned him, including myself as mute or, just what I don't

David Geisler:

know Super quiet.

Kady Roberts:

Yeah. Not liking to speak. So this game, I was, like, losing it that he this is the first game he canonically is mute.

David Geisler:

That's so cool. This is so smart because you and I've already talked about how the truth is. Link's actually technically very chatty in Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom. He talks like crazy. It's just that we're reading the words and it's implied that he's saying more than he's saying.

David Geisler:

Mhmm. The camera will cut to black and come back after he tells a story. Link absolutely talks. Zelda in Breath of the Wild does mention in her diary that he stays more quiet than the average person because he he carries such a burden, but he absolutely can talk. The the reason we don't hear his voice is because we are Link in Breath of the Wild, Tears King, and all the Zelda games.

David Geisler:

So what happens when you're not Link? There's no justification for him to not talk. So how do you give make it so that he can't have a voice? You create lore where people lose their voice when they go into this void. That is so cool.

Kady Roberts:

It's brilliant. And then, just different interactions with him later are so cool in regards to that lore. But yeah, that was just a moment that I had that I just had to sit there and scream for a second that we finally had some kind of lore significance for who first off, finally figuring out who Link is as a person on his own, why he doesn't talk, and what he's been up to, and why he's been doing it.

David Geisler:

And and well, at least this link, if I may. At least

Kady Roberts:

this link specifically. Yes.

David Geisler:

Cool. A link that we could other you know, if if we're playing as Zelda, we could go up and talk to him. Yeah. So how do you make it so you can't?

Kady Roberts:

Yeah. And it's

David Geisler:

From a design point of view?

Kady Roberts:

It's it's brilliant.

David Geisler:

It's cool. It's so cool.

Kady Roberts:

So brilliant. And it's so fun because also not even me saying, like, oh, like, blueberry is to Link as Impa is to Zelda, specifically in this game. Blueberry. And Blueberry and Impa are siblings in this game as well.

David Geisler:

This is a lot. Wow. I didn't know any of this.

Kady Roberts:

So it's literally like they they saw how good of a success Purah was as a character, this kinda crazy scientist character, changed her into this brother, gave her him the same music, the same kind of person, and then Link goes to him to make his sword or upgrade a shield, and they have this, like, relationship with each other.

David Geisler:

That's cool. I do think I was in that building. Now I'm inspired to now that I've kind of gone through these first couple dungeons before I I think I'm going to the castle next, even try said something like let's go back to the castle, maybe I'll go hit these towns first and, like, talk to these people.

Kady Roberts:

I highly recommend it. He also has, like, a little notebook you can read through. It's a little bit long, but it gives you even more depth into their relationship together between him and Link.

David Geisler:

Oh, awesome.

Kady Roberts:

Yeah. Oh, I love this game. But, anyway, we should go to a break, and then when we come back, let's talk a little bit about the dungeons and the different races that you've gotten to meet.

David Geisler:

Sure. Yeah. Of course. Of course. Yeah.

David Geisler:

Cool. Hey, everybody. David here again, of course. Actually, before we go to break, I wanted to share something very special with you. Before recording our episode, we reached out to the another Pokemon podcast folks and asked what their thoughts were about echoes of wisdom.

David Geisler:

And both Rebelety and Gallutrad recorded a little segment here to share their thoughts, so I'm so excited to share this with you.

Becks:

Hey, Zelda fans. Bex here from another Pokemon podcast with my cohost.

Galutrad:

Gallutread.

Becks:

And we're gonna share our thoughts on Zelda echoes of wisdom.

David Geisler:

Yeah. Yeah.

Becks:

I, so far, am just truly enamored by this game. Like, it has been a pleasure to be back in a new Zelda world. Well, new ish Zelda world, but a new Zelda feel. And playing as princess Zelda, which a lot of fans have asked for, has been really rewarding, and I am excited to share a couple a couple

Kady Roberts:

of thoughts about

David Geisler:

that.

Galutrad:

Yeah. I've really enjoyed my time with it. The big thing for me that I love about this game is just the movement within the game and how all the different echoes can be, like, combined together or just utilized in really creative ways. The movement feels so fluid and yet so thoughtful that it's been an absolute joy to run around this world. I don't fast travel at all, and it's been great just moving around the world.

Becks:

Yeah. I am very, very proud of the creators of this game because they did give us what we've been asking for, which was we would like to play as princess Zelda. Yeah. I think a lot of people thought we would get to do that in tears. They were hoping for that ability, but they did it in a way that doesn't make you feel like it's not a full game.

Becks:

Like, it like, it very much feels like you have just as much wiggle room to do things as link, but but in very different ways.

Galutrad:

Yeah. I think you're given the same authority, the same autonomy that you have as Link. It's just instead of sword fighting and throwing bombs, which you do have some aspect of that in this game with the the link powers, but it's so much more fun to use Zelda's abilities.

Becks:

And you can tell that they got inspired by not only previous 2 d Zelda games, and and, like, there's always a gimmick in 2 d Zelda games, and this is this that's the gimmick is making the echoes. But but, also, they've learned a lot from making breath and tears where they are like, yeah. There are some things from this that we wanna carry forward even in our 2 d games. And I think it's just, like, the perfect lovechild of, like, Link's awakening or link between worlds or any other 2 d Zelda game that we all love and breath of the wild, tears of the kingdom. Like, it's got both aspects there.

David Geisler:

Wonderful. Again, that was Rebellion and Gallutrad from another Pokemon podcast that, that is AZP's, first spin off show. They just do a fantastic job. I've talked about another Pokemon podcast before. But if you're also into Pokemon, go check them out as well, another Pokemon podcast.

David Geisler:

You can actually find a link to their show, at the bottom of the AZP website. Alright, let's go to break.

Kady Roberts:

Hello and welcome back to another episode of That's not right.

David Geisler:

You're coming. You started an episode on the Oh, I love it. We're keeping that in the cut.

Kady Roberts:

Wait. No.

David Geisler:

No. Don't keep it. Don't keep it. Hi, Katie. Welcome back to another entrance from a break of another Zelda podcast, man.

Kady Roberts:

Coming back

David Geisler:

at you. It's been

Kady Roberts:

so long since I've done this. We're just thinking You're the responsible one.

David Geisler:

You do. That's not true. No. That's crazy.

Kady Roberts:

Well, welcome back anyway. Hope you guys had a great break.

David Geisler:

I I want us maybe I'll help us get in. There was one more point I wanted to make about the echoes, and I'll try to make a quick one. I think it has a larger it has large implications, but I'll make the point quickly. I love that at first, getting the inanimate object echoes, I was kinda like, okay. Cool.

David Geisler:

We're collecting our building pieces. That's neat. That's fun. And then you start collecting the enemies and you're like, okay. If you're thinking about it, it's like, how do these all these pieces fit together and work?

David Geisler:

You're kinda building these weird little machines. It's kinda cool. But then I realized maybe it was halfway through the second dungeon when I started getting some of, like, the different kinds of fish characters and Mhmm. Different things. I realized, do you know what's happening?

David Geisler:

By collecting the echoes, it recontextualizes what an the enemy even is. It it puts value on the enemy. Mhmm. So it used to just be like, oh, this enemy attacks you this way. This enemy attacks you that way.

David Geisler:

Watch out. Get out of the way. Now they have value and you want to collect them because the thing they use to attack you as you observe it Mhmm. You're you're passively thinking like that's probably what I can use them for.

Kady Roberts:

Yeah.

David Geisler:

You know? And it's Yeah.

Kady Roberts:

Sorry. It's also a thing too of you see it and you collect it and you're like, what else could I use you to do that I don't know you can do yet?

David Geisler:

I love that they put the little check your notebook button. I think it's just the start button, the plus sign button, so you can just real quick read a sentence or 2 about it. It gives you some ideas. I love it. So so yeah.

David Geisler:

That's when I realized, I was like, oh, wow. This is really cool. Because at first I was kinda thinking like, man, there's a lot of bad guys to collect as echoes. And of course my lists are way super long and I'm only 3 dungeons in right now. I can only imagine this gets crazy.

David Geisler:

But, I realized that I started looking at enemies different. Instead of thinking I started somewhere in the Zora dungeon. Instead of being like, oh, I gotta get away from that thing, I started thinking, I wanna go get that thing. Mhmm. You know what I mean?

Kady Roberts:

And I really noticed it when I was going against the bosses in the dungeons. Because sometimes I would throw out I'll just be like, okay. I'm just gonna throw out my strongest Yeah. One, but then I realize, okay, you're too slow. Like, your attack doesn't charge up in time, or you are really strong but you one hit and you're out, so I can't use you.

Kady Roberts:

But if I mix you and you, then maybe so it's like a whole, like, puzzle on your head.

David Geisler:

I love it. And I I I think it tur takes combat and turns it into a puzzle, which is great.

Kady Roberts:

It's fantast

David Geisler:

Oh my gosh. It might be the opposite of what we said in our last episode for Ocarina of Time. We were I was talking about how my favorite bosses in Zelda games are puzzles. Mhmm. And it's about figuring out how to what how to get the bosses in different stages and how to get them to open up weak spots and figuring out what you're gonna do and what items you're gonna use to do it.

David Geisler:

This is the same thing, but it's in reverse. You're trying to figure out what items to use. Mhmm. I don't know. Maybe it is the same thing.

David Geisler:

I don't know. Let's let's keep moving. But it feels it felt like instead of trying to suss out the puzzle of the boss, you're trying to suss out the puzzle of what to use, I guess is what I'm trying to say.

Kady Roberts:

No. I agree. Absolutely. Which brings us to the first boss, technically, which is in Southern ruins. And it's the big talus looking guy.

David Geisler:

I almost can't remember this. Yeah.

Kady Roberts:

He so the whole thing is he has, like, the little orbs. This is when you first learn you can grab stuff and pull it.

David Geisler:

Yes. Okay. Now I remember. Thank you.

Kady Roberts:

And you gotta pull it and whatever, doing all this different stuff. And it gets to that point where, I guess, that final third one, and he's got his head covered and you're like, okay.

David Geisler:

I totally remember this. Yeah.

Kady Roberts:

What now? Because you keep trying to grab it and pull it, nothing's happening. Because that's not how that works.

David Geisler:

Right.

Kady Roberts:

So it is that cool part of finally, like, he gets down, you pull it out, and then you spawn like a pokoblin or something, and you both start wailing on it together. It's so satisfying.

David Geisler:

How do you feel about turning into link mode?

Kady Roberts:

I didn't actually yeah. No. I didn't use it too often, to be completely honest.

David Geisler:

I found I think I used it so far, I think I'm using it less than the game wants me to. Sometimes I know.

Kady Roberts:

That's how I felt.

David Geisler:

Sometimes I'll be in the middle of a boss battle and they'll trickle down the little blue triangles. And I'm like, oh, oh, am I supposed to be turning into Link right now? And and I I'm doing it less. I'm dying a lot more but, when I first got it, I kinda thought like, oh, it feels a little bit like a crutch almost. It feels like I agree.

David Geisler:

We set up this whole system to do it a different different way, but guess what? When it doesn't work, fine. You can be link, but we'll time it. It's what it kinda felt like at first. And I felt like, oh, that's not really supporting your you're almost putting a patch on for when your system doesn't work.

David Geisler:

Yeah. I I don't know. I don't know. I I'm finding myself switching to link a little bit here and there. Sometimes I'm using I'm switching to link to go in for the like, you use your echoes to get the boss into a state, and then you go in with the sword maybe.

Kady Roberts:

Will do. Normally, like, I'll get them to that point where they're down, and then I'll spawn someone and then immediately go into link so we can both hit. And then as soon as he's back up, I'm out of that. Yeah. Yeah.

Kady Roberts:

I'm I'm glad we kind of view that the same kind of way. But from there, I went to Gerudo, but you went to Zora.

David Geisler:

I did. Yeah.

Kady Roberts:

So let's let's talk about Zora first, the Jabal ruins. Yeah. For me, it was a renowned thing. I did not realize river and, like, sea Zora were 2 different It was races?

David Geisler:

Very cool to see them have a dynamic in a game finally.

Kady Roberts:

It was fantastic.

David Geisler:

And also that moment when

Kady Roberts:

I because I first ran into the river Zora and I recognized them from, like, up Link's Awakening.

David Geisler:

They graphically show up in Link's Awakening.

Kady Roberts:

Yeah. And so I was like, oh, okay. Like, this is how we're doing it, this game. Yeah.

David Geisler:

And then

Kady Roberts:

I went down and I'm like, why do these ones look like Breath of the Wild ones?

David Geisler:

Or more importantly, Ocarina of Time ones.

Kady Roberts:

Or Ocarina of Time ones.

David Geisler:

All that's true.

Kady Roberts:

Yeah. And so then getting to see them have that dynamic of, well, you're too prissy and uptight. Well, you're too loud and crazy. Like, it's so fun.

David Geisler:

There's a lot of fun lore there, and I'm so glad that a game finally addressed it because from a from a game mechanic point of view, and again, I'll try to make this quick.

Kady Roberts:

Yeah.

David Geisler:

The Zora appear in the first Zelda game. They're the faces, the little spider looking faces that pop up out of the water and they spit water or they spit orbs of energy at Link and they're really, really mean guys. Mhmm. And they are called Zoras. I think there's even a misprint in the manual where they're Zolas or maybe they actually are called Zolas in the first game.

David Geisler:

It doesn't matter. Zoras, I think they pop up in the second game. They do in the Super Nintendo game. And then when they were introduced for Ocarina of Time I don't think there's Zoras in Link awake Link's Awakening. There might be, but I don't think there are.

David Geisler:

When they were I think Link's Awakening, there's just the one that you can find in, like, a hut. Okay. Well, this is,

Kady Roberts:

like, Awakening, there's just the one that you can find in, like, a hut.

David Geisler:

Okay. Well,

Kady Roberts:

this is like invisible.

David Geisler:

Yeah. This is interesting. The 2019 version of Link's Awakening took the Zoras' graphical style from Super Nintendo and put them in. Oh. And they don't really look that way in the Game Boy version.

David Geisler:

But there might be some Zoras that spit at you in the Game Boy version. Okay. But they very clearly took the green and orange look, from the Super Nintendo game. And that's you don't really see River Zora too often. They show up on a couple of the handheld games.

David Geisler:

They might even show up in A Link Between Worlds because that's also referencing A Link to the Past. But when the Zora were interpreted for Ocarina of Time as these, like, almost like like, a shark looking people almost, A lot of people didn't even make the connection that they were the same as these other ones. Yeah. And so then after a while people started realizing and they're like, wait, are they good? Are they bad?

David Geisler:

Did they evolve? Did they become high end or whatever? And so then Nintendo kinda had to retcon a little bit and basically say, oh, well, yes. They did kinda split and became 2 separate cultures, the river Zora. Even in the Super Nintendo game, are they attack link until you meet their queen and then she says, I'm sorry.

David Geisler:

They're they're a little they're not monsters, but they're like, you know, They're

Kady Roberts:

a little like, they they jump the gun a little bit.

David Geisler:

They jump the gun. Yeah. And so and then and then so then there was river zoras and sea zoras. And so then the sea zoras are the ones that that became kind of elf like and, or what we would kind of

Kady Roberts:

It feels like the dichotomy of elves and, dwarves in Lord of the Rings.

David Geisler:

I agree completely. And I think that there's, yeah, similar things going there. Ironically, the sea zauras often you have to get to them by going up a river, which is a little weird. Yeah. So they're sea zora living in a river.

David Geisler:

That's why

Kady Roberts:

it took me by surprise at first. I was like, wait. Okay.

David Geisler:

You're a

Kady Roberts:

sea zora. Okay. I know.

David Geisler:

The only time the sea zora are actually at a sea is in Majora's Mask. It's it's a little strange but we just go with it. They technically show up in a c in Oracle of Ages, which is a ton of fun. That's the first time see Zora show up in a 2 d top down game. There is 2 d pixel art of them with their little Little little bit of their own.

David Geisler:

Shark heads going back and forth. And when you play it with the oracle games, you're gonna love that.

Kady Roberts:

I'm so excited.

David Geisler:

With that said, it was so cool to see see Zora in this graphic style.

Kady Roberts:

Yeah. I love the I like that all of these different places that you go, there's some kind of thing going on that you have to kind of fix for them before you can do the main problem. Yep. And I love this one being you having to kind of reunite them through kind of mischievous means of being like, oh, this person says like, you you can't play as good as them, so you gotta go there and show them and that kind of thing. And I love their advisors both being like, they do this every year.

Kady Roberts:

Like, they just nonstop. And then them finally meeting and playing, and it's terrible.

David Geisler:

Yeah. Oh, that was such a surprise. It was so funny. I thought, oh, this is the moment where it'll work out, but they, like, weren't synced up. It was so funny.

David Geisler:

It really was.

Kady Roberts:

Until finally, you get that moment where they sync up, and then they finally have the talk. And I I like it because I don't know if you've gone back there since doing that because East Area, when you go when you finish an area, you can go back, and there's gonna be side quests you can do there from then on. And I'm not gonna spoil I will just say though, one of them does involve the 2 of them the 2 leaders getting together secretly, and you let go and try and figure out what's going on. And then it's them trying to repay their adviser's kindness cool. For dealing with the both of them and for keeping level heads.

Kady Roberts:

And it's like a really sweet moment.

David Geisler:

That makes me wanna go back there. That's cool.

Kady Roberts:

There's so much you can do in all of them. You can even teach a little Zora how to swim.

David Geisler:

I think this is the there could have been technically another Zelda game where there are river Zora and sea Zora together. I don't think there are. Usually the game goes one way or the other.

Kady Roberts:

Yeah.

David Geisler:

And it's because they never really wanted to address it. Like, are Zora evil? Are they not? Yeah. So you play Oracle of Ages and you get see Zora.

David Geisler:

You you know what I mean? You get another you get the you get the river Zora. There was a little bit of retcon in all of that because I think Nintendo wanted to move towards the sea Zora. But by bringing the river Zora and making them as a as fulfilled of a culture as the sea Zora were or as realized a culture. And then to actually address it in this game and actually smash them into each other.

David Geisler:

I loved it.

Kady Roberts:

That's what I really loved about this game is I feel like all the cultures were really well addressed and you got to see how everyone's daily lives are depending on where they're at. Kind of how I was talking about with Ocarina where you finally got to see, like, how each individual culture acted and especially with the Zuora. Because now not only is it just the Zuora kingdom, there's different races within the Zuora, and how do they interact refreshing to kinda see that in a game.

David Geisler:

And with that said, they keep it kinda light. They keep it, you know, there's lessons are being learned. Kids can enjoy it. Adults can enjoy it. It was it was cute.

David Geisler:

It was funny.

Kady Roberts:

Yeah. It's a great, just lesson of, like, people have different skill sets, but if you come together and pair those skill sets together, you can make beautiful music happen. And that's what eventually happens is their song that they play for Jabu Jabu is gorgeous.

David Geisler:

Elves and dwarves. I love that.

Kady Roberts:

Yeah.

David Geisler:

Cool.

Kady Roberts:

But talking about the final boss, it's like the big fishy guy, that starts going through and then he eventually starts also flying through the air a bit and throwing stuff at you.

David Geisler:

Yeah. It's it's possessed Jabu Jabu, isn't it? Am I wrong?

Kady Roberts:

I think it's just a dude inside Jabu Jabu.

David Geisler:

Oh, maybe maybe Jabu Jabu spits him out or something. Okay. But anyway, yeah. Yeah.

Kady Roberts:

But yes. How did you approach that? What, like, what echoes or how did you go about that?

David Geisler:

I probably just threw a bunch of bombfish into his mouth, honestly.

Kady Roberts:

Okay. That's very different than what I did.

David Geisler:

Oh, yeah. Tell me.

Kady Roberts:

Yeah. So for me, I my best friend, my fave one of my favorite echoes was the shark.

David Geisler:

Shark's great. Love getting the shark.

Kady Roberts:

Yeah. I would throw the shark in there. Shark would go for it. Then I would do link mode, hit its stomach,

David Geisler:

turn it off. This is the side scrolling part. Yeah. I was thinking about when Jabber Jabber's sucking all the goop into his mouth and then spitting him back out. And you're you're top down.

David Geisler:

No. The side scrolling happens too.

Kady Roberts:

Wait. Okay. Am I am I losing it right now? I I need to look at this.

David Geisler:

I remember the side scrolling fish. You're absolutely right. And I totally used my shark and he'd get it and then I'd go in and we'd do some other I'd throw some other things at him. But there's a top down part. Maybe it's the end of the water temple where Jabu Jabu is, like, spitting out blocks of ice or something that you can stand on, and then he sucks things back in.

David Geisler:

And when he sucks it in, that's when I would throw the bomb fish into his mouth because it kinda felt like the Dodongo from our arena. Yeah. And then it would blow up and he'd get mad and he'd spit other things out and you'd kind of avoid.

Kady Roberts:

Oh, man. I only I I thought it was just the fish. Because then later on, you you do, if you go to Kakariko Village, there is a sleep dungeon thing where if you, like you can recently replay certain things or do different challenges to win items. Okay.

David Geisler:

One of

Kady Roberts:

them is a complete, facing all the bosses you faced thus far and, like, you're timed. And that's the one that you use. So that's why I guess in my brain, I was like, that's the boss.

David Geisler:

It probably is then. Maybe the jabu jabu encounter isn't a boss encounter. It's just like a fight or something. Maybe it's a little mini boss that they don't really count. And maybe that didn't happen actually at the end of the dungeon.

David Geisler:

It might have been after the full dungeon that you're with the people, but that's my main memory. Okay. It's Jabu Jabu's head coming out and getting real mad because it's just so weird to see because it's also a reference actually, I just realized it's also a reference how Jabu Jabu sucks everything in in Ocarina. In

Kady Roberts:

Ocarina. I was gonna say the amount of parallels between this and Ocarina is kinda crazy. Mhmm. They you can tell they really took a lot of inspiration from it.

David Geisler:

I think from a from a wide angle, it feels like it's mostly referencing, A Link to the Past, the Super Nintendo game. Okay. But when you really dig into where all the towns are and stuff, it's much more in the Ocarina time space.

Kady Roberts:

Yeah. Oh, so cool.

David Geisler:

I know your your smoothie Deku is the Deku from Majora's Mask?

Kady Roberts:

Yes. I I did recognize that when I started playing Majora's. I was like, hey. I know you.

David Geisler:

Hey. I know you because you played Majora after echo? Yeah.

Kady Roberts:

That's so weird. It's so weird. Every time, man. You know? It it is what it is.

Kady Roberts:

But after you beat all the stuff with, the Zora, you went over to the Gerudo, which is where I started because I love the Gerudo so much.

David Geisler:

Yeah. I was curious about the Gerudo. I think I just went to the Zora because it looked like the rift was maybe just a little closer to where I was on the map. And I said, oh, yeah. Just go there.

David Geisler:

See, I just started wandering in a direction and then that's when I wound up in the desert. I was like, I'm in the desert.

Kady Roberts:

There's gotta be Gerudo here.

David Geisler:

How did you enter the desert? Did you go up over the walls or did you go through the southern part, the little southern canyon? I did not have

Kady Roberts:

the southern parts. I remember just walking to the left. Yeah. And then I hopped up on the walls for a little bit and then ran around, like, the outskirts

David Geisler:

Mhmm.

Kady Roberts:

For a bit and then just ran about till I got to one of the rifts and then you end up meeting the chief's

David Geisler:

daughter Yep.

Kady Roberts:

Which is also a really cool relation with Breath of the Wild with, like, how the chief's daughter interacts.

David Geisler:

Absolutely. And And we we have the chief in this one. The chief passed away in breath. Right? It was just her daughter.

David Geisler:

Excuse me. No. It's fine. The one thing I I did not enter Gerudo Desert through the canyon. Mhmm.

David Geisler:

I was doing my weird tree walking thing and I was hopping up as high as I could and I just dropped down in and it triggered one of the little, like, vocal one of the little text box cut scenes. Yeah. And later then I actually was like going back to the west and I was like, oh, there's a canyon here. And I realized, I think they were referencing how there's like a canyon in Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom.

Kady Roberts:

Yeah. If

David Geisler:

you go the intended way, it's a very similar homage to how you get to the Gerudo Desert in those two games, and I thought that was really cool.

Kady Roberts:

Absolutely. Now so going in and, like, kind of hanging out with the Gerudo and also this moment of she the chieftain's daughter is in charge of the military forces that they have. But in that same vein though, she still is kind of seen as a child and not ready yet because the chief has her right hand woman. Yep. Which

David Geisler:

The Fazir, which is not in the US, but basically, yeah.

Kady Roberts:

Yeah. Very, gosh, What is it called? Jafar? Jafar. Okay.

Kady Roberts:

Very Jafar.

David Geisler:

Yeah.

Kady Roberts:

And so it's this cool moment of, like, trying to go around and help her prove herself and also getting to help out with the Gerudo army and doing all these dungeons and clearing up all these rifts until finally you go. And everyone's like, huzzah. You did it. Like, this is great. And then they turn to the

David Geisler:

fuzzier Yeah.

Kady Roberts:

And they're like, you said you you were being really weird this whole time.

David Geisler:

I also liked that you could start to kinda guess that she might be an echo, but, like, her motivations felt pretty valid in the beginning.

Kady Roberts:

Oh, yeah.

David Geisler:

Yeah. And it took me a while to start suspecting. I was really glad that they didn't just, like, lampshade it from

Kady Roberts:

the very beginning. I felt like it was a big twist for me because it it wasn't really until I started going around talking to the Gerudo and them being like, oh, yeah. Like she's such like a nurturing soul and she's helped me so much. And I'm like, she is not nurturing.

David Geisler:

Yeah. Or or you're thinking like, well, she has some motivation. Yeah.

Kady Roberts:

And then I started thinking like, oh, well, maybe she's felt like she had to change because it's a huge thing going on. And as you go on and on and on and then you finally see her in the rift, and you're like, oh Yep. This is starting to make sense.

David Geisler:

I love that reveal because seeing her in a rift well, at least for me, I had already gone to Zora, and I saw other people in the rift. Yeah. So I kinda knew what that dynamic was. I guess you kinda get it in the beginning too. But I remember for me, I didn't even seeing her in the rift, I had that moment of like, wait.

David Geisler:

Who have I been talking to out in the real world?

Kady Roberts:

Yes. I had that moment too because I'm just like

David Geisler:

I mean, like you said at the beginning part, obviously, like, the king comes out and is like, king comes

Kady Roberts:

out and is like, put my daughter in prison, like he makes up these lies. But it wasn't until that moment that I was like, they can be like intelligent and and and conniving and

David Geisler:

stealing. Yeah.

Kady Roberts:

That was my moment where I'm like, oh, I would be so paranoid if I was in this world about who was an echo and who was not.

David Geisler:

Little body snatchers kinda action here.

Kady Roberts:

Yeah. Wow. Ugh. It was such a cool moment. But, the boss for that, I think it was the Moltoiga Molto Moltoiga?

Kady Roberts:

Yeah. Big little gnome or, gnome, mole guy. Yes. His fight was hard for me.

David Geisler:

So hard. So I flew through the first phase. Mhmm. I did amazing on the first phase. I was throwing I don't even remember what echoes I was using.

David Geisler:

I didn't even need to really use link. Maybe I used link a little. Mhmm. And I was like, okay. I think I got this one.

David Geisler:

And I fell apart in the second phase. Yeah. I was using, I was drinking all my potions. I was trying to avoid the, I was throwing things at them. I was using my spinner blade echo.

David Geisler:

I was using my fast echoes. I was using anything I could. I was

Kady Roberts:

gonna say I was throwing sand piranhas at them and I was throwing birds at them.

David Geisler:

I mostly then actually did have to resort to link mode and try to use my arrows. Because I was trying to use that strategy of like, oh, they gave me arrows in the dungeon. Mhmm. Maybe that's what I'm supposed to use on the bad guy. And it worked, but it just took I was just chipping away.

David Geisler:

I was just saying

Kady Roberts:

it's the one that I feel like it takes the longest to do in the game.

David Geisler:

That second phase, I I think I drink. You know, I had probably like 12 or 15, smoothies made. And I Mhmm. I'm not really one to cook and do that, but I've been doing it in this game. Actually, that's the one thing I like to say.

David Geisler:

I love that they just took I I enjoy the cooking in Breath of the Wild and Tears. Mhmm. But I love that for this game, to kind of reference a 2 d old school game, they still have cooking but it's just 2 items. Super simple, super easy. You can match any 2 and they're gonna give you something.

David Geisler:

And it's just fun to learn what it is. You don't have to think about 5 items or you don't you don't accidentally make bad food, and I love that in those games. But if you're gonna if you're gonna condense everything down to something that's that's referencing what 10 years ago, 20 years ago would have been a game, not a Game Boy Mhmm. I love that. It's so cool.

David Geisler:

So I actually like making smoothies in this game. So anyway, I had I had link power smoothies, I had heart smoothies, I had all of my smoothies that were gonna overpower me, but I was using all of them because I was like running out of stuff. And then I just had to I I resorted to and obviously, probably probably this is the reason why it took so long because I think thematically link mode isn't supposed to be the best mode.

Kady Roberts:

Yeah.

David Geisler:

But I resorted to just shooting arrows and it took forever and I was dodging, I was getting hit. Mhmm. Arrows. That's how I got through it finally, and it took forever. How about you?

Kady Roberts:

Yeah. No. Literally the same. It was so difficult. I mean, it was fun, but it was difficult.

Kady Roberts:

And so going back and doing, like, that boss mode that you can play, for, like, when you're sleeping, I think you get, like, a piece of a heart or something like that from it. They if you do the one where it's all of them throughout the game, they give you 15 minutes to do all the bosses, and that one always is the one that eats up the most of my time. The rest of them, I can just fly through.

David Geisler:

By the way Mhmm. There was one other thing in Ocarina of Time 3 d that I didn't really do but I was aware of. There's like a boss mode in Ocarina of Time 3 d where as you defeat the temples, you can go back into the menus and do a boss you can go through the bosses again for all the ones that you've played so far. Grezzo made that game. Grezzo made this game.

David Geisler:

Oh. It's like the same mechanic.

Kady Roberts:

And same thing. They threw in, Dampe in this game as well.

David Geisler:

Oh, really? I don't think it's I was

Kady Roberts:

gonna say, I probably haven't met him yet because he's northern in the map. Mhmm. But, you can do some cool stuff with him too. He's back at this. I kind of like that.

Kady Roberts:

It feels like Dante is starting to become a staple character as well in some of the games, which is kinda cool.

David Geisler:

Yeah. You're right. I think he shows up in the Oracle games. The Oracle the Oracle games were made by Capcom, and they had a lot of fun making, like, 2 d sprite versions. And so I think Grezzo's, you know, picked up the mantle here a little bit.

Kady Roberts:

Yeah. No. It's really cool. So those are all the ones that you have done so far. Yeah.

Kady Roberts:

Really quickly,

David Geisler:

If you wanna talk about other things, I'm okay with it.

Kady Roberts:

No. I don't wanna spoil anything. The only thing I am gonna bring up really quickly is there is the Deku, race Yeah. In this, which I thought was the coolest thing ever.

David Geisler:

They're back. They haven't been back since Majora's Mask.

Kady Roberts:

I exactly. I think they're so cool, and they were so fun. You're gonna have a blast doing all this stuff with them because they're very stupid. They're very stupid characters, but you can't help but look at them and be like, aw.

David Geisler:

Kind of a kind of a scarecrow kind of thing.

Kady Roberts:

Yeah. Yeah. And then I was surprised because, you know, this one, you have the Zora, you have the, Gerudo, and then you have the Deku kind of taking the mantle for the, like, Kokiri children or the, the

David Geisler:

Oh, really?

Kady Roberts:

The goodness my goodness. What is the,

David Geisler:

Kakariko? No. Kakiri. Kakiri.

Kady Roberts:

Well, yeah.

David Geisler:

Oh, the the Kuequis or whatever

Kady Roberts:

they're called? Well, yeah. Like the Kuequis or the,

David Geisler:

little dash deku scrubs. What are they?

Kady Roberts:

Yeah. The little, like, yeah Those gloves. Are they are they called deku?

David Geisler:

No. They're not. They're called Kuequis in Skyward Sword, but they've gotta be oh, why are we blanking on this?

Kady Roberts:

I don't know. But point is, they the Daegu kind of take that mantle.

David Geisler:

Okay.

Kady Roberts:

So I was like, okay. Because there's a northern, area you can go to. To. Oh, and the Goron are in this as well. Okay.

David Geisler:

They're probably up north in the mountains somewhere.

Kady Roberts:

Yeah. They're over in the mountains and then there's like Hebra Mountain area.

David Geisler:

So I

Kady Roberts:

was like, oh, we're gonna get to see the Rito. But there's no Rito in this game.

David Geisler:

No Rito. This is such a such a nice mix of all the races. But it's weird that I did the Rito

Kady Roberts:

It's weird not having them. I went there and I looked around for them. They have, like, a replacement character there, but it's just, like, a one, like, one character. But there's yeah. The Rito are left out of this game, unfortunately.

Kady Roberts:

I don't quite know why they did that.

David Geisler:

Is it is it because of the flying? Like, would they break the game if they could fly everywhere? I really don't know.

Kady Roberts:

I don't know. Because you wouldn't even necessarily have to show them flying. Maybe just too much, the the map is kind of spacious but also kind of condensed. So maybe if they added a whole other town, it might have gotten a bit much.

David Geisler:

Those top down games always do feel that way, spacious and condensed at

Kady Roberts:

the same time.

David Geisler:

Sometimes, like, even playing the Super Nintendo game, you're like, this is so big. I can go anywhere. And you look at the map and you're like, oh, wait. I kinda think I went everywhere. But sometimes it does, but then you mentally zoom in.

David Geisler:

By the way, can you hear Schrodinger snoring right now? So cute. He's sleeping on the desk between our mics, and he is fully cat snoring. Alright. Anyway, any any other, mechanic takeaways or anything for you?

David Geisler:

Game mechanics, lasting impressions. I love I love that I just thought of this now. I love that Nintendo's decided on a copas a a a consistent, UI style for all the Zelda games. I love that Breath of the Wild, Link's Awakening, Tears of the Kingdom. Actually even Age of Calamity used this and, Echoes of Wisdom all have, like, it's all the same thin oval buttons.

David Geisler:

You know, the the the the maps tend to the pause menus tend to look the same way. There's an aesthetic there. There's a design. There's a design to it that, is consistent. And I it's one thing that helps me feel like all these games are kinda connected in the same brand.

David Geisler:

And I like that.

Kady Roberts:

It makes it very easy to hop from one game to the next. And I think that's really what they've been trying to push for is to get you to play everything on their catalog.

David Geisler:

Speaking of maps, how do you feel about the dungeon maps? The dungeon maps? Yeah. Because they are represented very differently in this game.

Kady Roberts:

I cannot even tell you because I guess I just never took notice.

David Geisler:

This game has a probably the largest amount of side scrolling, sections. Oh, yes. Is there a go with this?

Kady Roberts:

Oh my gosh. Yes.

David Geisler:

Link's Awakening, the dungeons are entirely or not Link's Awakening. Adventure of Link, the dungeons are entirely side scrolling. But that aside, this game has the most side scrolling platform y, parts of dungeons out of any game in my opinion. Oh, yeah. The the the jump button.

David Geisler:

Zelda's got a jump button. That's kinda well, I guess Link had the jump button x in Breath of the Wild and stuff. I guess Link jumps now. I guess the main character jumps now.

Kady Roberts:

No. I I do like the, the little detail. That's the word I was looking for. Yeah. The detail of Zelda can't jump as high as Link.

David Geisler:

Oh, really?

Kady Roberts:

Mm-mm. So if you turn into link mode, you can jump higher.

David Geisler:

I didn't even know that. Mhmm. Oh, I might use that. The for me, the the dungeon maps, they're I'm used to the ocarina style where if you go up and down a a layer, you can see the the the floors or whatever kinda grafted on top of each other. Mhmm.

David Geisler:

You know, you can as you go up to floor 1, floor 2, floor 3, you can see the map change right in place. Yeah. And in this game they

Kady Roberts:

just have little dots that connect?

David Geisler:

They have dots that connect for the side scrolling parts and you have to scroll from floor to floor. So it's a little more difficult to figure out if you're exactly over a room or under a room.

Kady Roberts:

I almost prefer how this one is set up just because with the completionist side of me, you know, you get the compass and you can see what you're missing as far as treasure chest and things. Mhmm. And I can look and be like, okay. This treasure chest is here with a door. It has, like, a little line leading to this door, so that's the door I need to take to get directly there.

David Geisler:

I do love that. I love that they've they've kind of figured out a way to put the side scrolling parts into the map and it's a lot of referencing, it's a lot of the dots and the lines, but it is nice because you can look there and go, okay. I think that's how I wanna move through the dungeon there, there, there. It's harder for me to fully comprehend the floors that are on top and above and below each other. We talked about kind of the puzzle box mechanic of an Ocarina of Time dungeon in the last episode.

David Geisler:

There's less of that feeling in these dungeons for me, but I've only done 3. Yeah. That's and that's not a dig, but it took me a while to get used to the maps. It took me a while to, like, really look at it. It was a little overwhelming for me but I I think one thing they did solve is the side scrolling because that side scrolling level that side scrolling mechanic or representation is not in Link's Awakening just like it wasn't in the Game Boy version.

David Geisler:

And those staircase icons in Link's Awakening, it's just random. It's like it's it's like you're just guessing where it might go. You have to make mental maps of which staircases go to where. And I'm glad that this game at least documents that because there are so many, I guess, staircase segments.

Kady Roberts:

Yeah. I felt honestly the complete opposite about Ocarina's maps in Echoes. Ocarina's maps confuse me.

David Geisler:

Okay. I

Kady Roberts:

think it's because I like being able to see the entirety of everything so that I can map out my route in my head where I'm going. Whereas if you're playing Ocarina, you have to constantly scroll between the floors and figure out if I take this one, I think this will lead me to this floor, which adds to that puzzle box element of it. Yeah. But when I'm playing just to go back and grab those last few things that I missed when I was organically playing through, it's so much easier just to see it all mapped out.

David Geisler:

I can see that. Yeah. I think I've gotten used to the maps, but definitely the first dungeon or 2, I almost didn't use them because I was like, oh oh, I don't even know if I can this is a lot to look

Kady Roberts:

at. Okay.

David Geisler:

But I think I got it. I think I figured them out. I like it.

Kady Roberts:

I think last and final thing that I wanna touch on and then we can call it, is Ganon in this. K. So you see him at the beginning. Yep. Beat him off as Link.

Kady Roberts:

You both fall into the rift. Do you know anything else about Ganon yet?

David Geisler:

I have to confess. I I accidentally saw something online about, a character in the game considering that the Ganon might be an echo or something like that. And I kinda and I have a feeling that that's maybe what I'm gonna learn as I go to the castle at the end of act 1 here.

Kady Roberts:

Yes.

David Geisler:

Yeah.

Kady Roberts:

It's it's implied that this Ganon that you fought the essence of evil that Ganon has been re reincarnated over and over again is true.

David Geisler:

Is it demise? They they're bringing back Demise?

Kady Roberts:

Yep. He's gonna be the big bad that you'll be facing.

David Geisler:

Oh, I love that.

Kady Roberts:

It's phenomenal. And you'll have a really cool end fight scene, that I can't wait to hear about from you.

David Geisler:

Well, cool. I can't wait. Oh, wow. Demise. That's great.

David Geisler:

I mean, I was so excited for Demise to be in tears. I'm fine with how they handled Ganondorf in tears, but I was so excited for that to be Demise. And and and I actually haven't gotten to Ganondorf in tears. I'm still doing the the Goron stuff right now, but, that's cool.

Kady Roberts:

Yeah. That's interesting. This game is phenomenal. I cannot wait to do an official review, and I would even love to do, like, a music review or something of it. I just anything I can do.

David Geisler:

My goodness. The music in this game is off the charts. The Gerudo music for the Gerudo temple, that fiddle Oh, yeah. Flying high up into the air. I I have taken moments where I've just been like, what?

David Geisler:

This is this is gorgeous.

Kady Roberts:

I need it on Spotify now. I love it. And I also like that they do take some of the music from Link's Awakening and plug it in as well Oh, cool. In different parts.

David Geisler:

Well, we did our Link's Awakening music episode as our season finale last season. Mhmm. Maybe somewhere we gotta work in a music episode for Echoes of Wisdom. It's I'm I'm super impressed by it so far.

Kady Roberts:

Yeah.

David Geisler:

And, I felt like I had one more quick thing to say, but if I can't remember in the next couple seconds, it's all right. Echoes, music. I'm loving the graphic style. Oh, yes. This is what it was.

David Geisler:

It's interesting that this game has come out so quickly after Tears of the Kingdom. Mhmm. I think it went Tears of the Kingdom, this game. Yeah. Usually, Nintendo tries to put in, like, so here I actually I did not plan this, but I actually happen to have all the Switch games that we've except for Tears of Kingdom on the desk right now in front of us.

David Geisler:

And the order of release for Switch was Breath of the Wild came out Mhmm. Which is a true and proper Zelda game. The Legend of Zelda Breath of the Wild. Yep. The next game that came out was Cadence of Hyrule.

Kady Roberts:

Oh, no kidding.

David Geisler:

Krypt of the Legend of Zelda is its full and complete title. It's basically like a link in another game. Right? And so that's perfect. That's exactly what you do after you have a major release.

David Geisler:

You do a fun little side thing. You know what I mean? Then the next one that came out was something that felt a little more substantial. It was no. I think it might have been Lynx.

David Geisler:

Oh, I might have these in the wrong order. Oh oh, no. Then it was Hyrule Warriors. Actually, that's what it was. I don't actually have the physical one of that.

David Geisler:

Then it was Cadence of Hyrule. Then it was the Lynx Awakening HD remake, and then it was Hyrule Warriors Age of Calamity, then it was the Zelda Skyward Sword HD remake, and then it was Tears of the Kingdom, and now Echoes. Now I'm the pattern that's happening here is when a non mainline Zelda game comes out, like Cadence of Hyrule, like Hyrule Warriors Mhmm. Like Age of Calamity Hyrule Warriors, Nintendo does not allow the words The Legend of Zelda to be in the title.

Kady Roberts:

Yeah.

David Geisler:

And so, like, Age of Calamity isn't or Hyrule Warriors Age of Calamity isn't a Zelda game Yeah. With this with this mechanic. Right? And I think Nintendo's protecting their brand there a little bit. Mhmm.

David Geisler:

Echoes of wisdom came out right after tears and it is a Zelda game. The Legend of Zelda Echoes of Wisdom. Yes. It was made by Greso. Yes.

David Geisler:

They were working on it. While Tears of the Kingdom was being made, I'm sure they started working on this in 2020. I'm sure they started working on this

Kady Roberts:

immediately after

David Geisler:

Link's Awakening. Right? Mhmm. But it's so cool that we've gotten a mainline Zelda game immediately after another mainline Zelda game is the last thing I wanted to say. So this isn't some little fun little spin off.

David Geisler:

It's not like you know what I mean? And those games are fun too. Even though this was made by a second party, which is Grezzo, I applaud them, and I think it's so cool. And I think it was cool that Nintendo, did this.

Kady Roberts:

It is. I I'm really excited to see what comes after.

David Geisler:

Sure. Yeah.

Kady Roberts:

Echoes of Wisdom, if they're gonna keep this train going, I hope they, finally do what people have been asking, which is Twilight Princess at Wind Waker ports.

David Geisler:

That's probably gonna be in the next year or 2, and then yeah. I don't know. They're they did also, this is a bit of a a palate cleanse, this game, echoes of wisdom. They made it Zelda's the main character. The play mechanics are a little different, but we're referencing this kind of open world y, build it your own way, do it your own way stuff that our players are used to.

David Geisler:

I don't know where Zelda goes from here.

Kady Roberts:

Yeah. I think that's what's been the most exciting these past couple years is every time they come out with something new and you're like, I don't even know where they could go from here and then they come out with something else and it just takes you by surprise always.

David Geisler:

The strength and the weakness of Tears of the Kingdom was that it was just more Breath of the Wild. Mhmm. I loved that. I wanted more Breath of the Wild. But when by the time, you know, I still haven't completed Tears of the Kingdom Mhmm.

David Geisler:

Because I think I'm kinda saturated. I'm good. And this is a great this is a great little way to change, and then you can go back into the other Zelda you know, switching up into different Zelda games is so much fun, but anyway.

Kady Roberts:

Yeah. I think that's why it's been kinda nice, switching between Majoras and Wind Waker too just because it's constantly keeping the game looking fresh to me. Yeah. Yeah.

David Geisler:

Yeah. Cool.

Kady Roberts:

Awesome. Thank you all so much for listening to us ramble for, like, I don't know, 45 minutes probably. If you want to find the podcast that you're listening to right now on social media, you can find out on another Zelda pod.

David Geisler:

Another Zelda pod on X. We're another Zelda podcast on all the other things.

Kady Roberts:

Did you tell I was floundering?

David Geisler:

No. It's all good. You can but mostly just go to our website another Zelda podcast.com where we have links that's spread out to all the socials, all the places you can subscribe to the show. We have all 6 pre pre previous seasons of episodes available right on our home page and, plenty of other fun things as well. I've got a couple Zelda playlists on there that I've been making and, we got some blog articles.

David Geisler:

We even sell some zell some AZP t shirts.

Kady Roberts:

Woo hoo.

David Geisler:

Oh, and, of course, links to our Patreon and all of that are on there as well. Yes. If you wanna find me on socials, I'm raptorpaint on all the things. How about you, Katie?

Kady Roberts:

I am mind of Katie, k a d y, on Instagram, or katiroberts.com is my website. And I also do technical producing right now for a show on the radio. It's at 95.5 Rock FM. I do, morning show for Angie Taylor at, like, 6 to 10 in the morning Chicago time. And if you don't live in Chicago, you can always check it out on my heart radio app.

Kady Roberts:

I highly recommend it. It's super fun.

David Geisler:

Yeah. Super cool. I'm so proud of you, getting the gig. That's really awesome.

Kady Roberts:

No. I'm having a blast.

David Geisler:

Alright. Our next episode should be, if everything is in order, should be Well Excuse Me Princess part 4 where the 2 hosts of Studio Demands It will join me and we will discuss the final couple episodes of the Legend of Zelda cartoon from the 19 eighties. This has been an ongoing series that we've been doing for the past 4 years. So if you're curious at all, just go in go on to our website or go through our our podcast feed and find the Excuse Me, Princess part 1, part 2, part 3, and we go through the the show and it's it's been quite the journey and it was especially fun this time around because usually it's only TC and I. This next time though, it was myself, TC, and Jim, who I met in person for the first time, Katie.

David Geisler:

Woo hoo. Oh, he's a he's a he's a sweetheart. He's amazing. I gave him a huge hug. I've been we have been producing a show with him for years.

David Geisler:

Never met him in person because he's out in California. He's a writer out in California. Oh. And here TC and and both Jim came to Chicago to record this episode in another. And there it is.

David Geisler:

It was it was an absolute blast and that should be the next episode. So we'll see you all there.

Kady Roberts:

Awesome. Thank you guys.