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Dive back into the jungle with host Ryan and legendary Stallone documentarian Derek Wayne Johnson as they break down the steamy, sweaty early moments of Rambo: First Blood Part II – from Rambo’s botched drop zone and explosive-arrow memories to Co’s unforgettable introduction, pirate river boats, and that intimate “expendable” chat that still hits hard. Derek shares wild behind-the-scenes stories, from holding an actual screen-used Rambo II arrow at Frank Stallone’s house to his secret Rocky IV location tour with James Rolfe (AVGN), plus updates on upcoming projects and candid thoughts on Sly’s recent frustrations. It’s a love letter to ’80s action excess and the man who made green berets cool again.
Creators and Guests
What is Sylvester Stallone and His Friends' Films Podcast ?
Welcome to the *Sylvester Stallone and Friends* podcast, your go-to show for fans of Sylvester Stallone’s action-packed legacy, hosted by Ryan and a variety of other passionate hosts! This podcast dives deep into Stallone’s standalone films and those of his action-hero contemporaries, with special episodes dedicated to Frank Stallone. Please note that *Rocky* and *Rambo* are covered exclusively on our sister podcasts, *One More Round: The Rocky Series Podcast* and *It’s a Long Road: The Rambo Series Podcast*. Join us for engaging discussions, behind-the-scenes insights, and a nostalgic celebration of the films that defined a genre. Whether you’re a longtime fan or new to the scene, subscribe to the *Sylvester Stallone and Friends* feed for action-packed episodes you won’t want to miss!
0:00
All right, quick public service announcement be before you listen to episode three of the Rambo series
0:06
podcast season 2 and our continuing coverage of Rambo First Blood part two
0:11
with Derek Wayne Johnson was kind enough to come on the show. This episode was recorded not a long time ago but you
0:17
know about a month or so ago. The next few episodes I recorded when I had some extra time so they were recorded kind of
0:22
close to each other. So just keep that in mind if any news seems quote unquote out of date. One such piece of news is
0:28
Derek hinted at or couldn't really be full disclosure on a project he was working with James Rolf of the Angry
0:35
Video Game and Cinemassacre fandom that has since been released during this
0:41
guest spot with Derek. We talked about it but we weren't clear because at that time he wasn't able to say exactly what
0:46
it was because it hadn't been announced yet or hadn't been released yet. So anyways, that's what he's referring to.
0:52
So, the link for that amazing video project or documentary where James and
0:57
Derek basically go to find the locations in Rocky 4 is in the description show
1:03
notes. So, I'll put that in there. Also, I guess I can say it. Uh, in the near
1:09
future, stand by. Uh, there'll be on this podcast or the other one I do on the Rocky Series called One More Round,
1:15
the Rocky Series Podcast. Mr. James, Rolf, and Derek will be interviewed by me together talking about that project
1:22
and anything else they want to talk about. Rocky, ramble, you name it. So, that will happen. Uh, I think I'm
1:27
allowed to say that. Oh, well, if I'm not, shame on me. Lastly, uh, Derek also
1:32
does at the end of this episode kind of a Q&A regarding the Instagram drama that, uh, Sly was going through
1:39
regarding Irwin Winkler and what have you. Just keep that in mind that that's why it seems, you know, not out of date, but a little bit out of date. So, there
1:45
you go. I try to keep these shows evergreen, but every now and then news comes out in the real world that uh gets addressed and talked about because we're
1:51
all sly fans and Rambo and Rocky fans, all that stuff. So, there you go. Enjoy the episode. Thank you so much, Derek.
1:57
You're you're the best. Nobody like you.
2:07
[Music]
2:31
Welcome to another episode of It's a Long Road the Ramble Series podcast. I
2:36
am very excited today because I have with me a very special guest, guest host for today's episode, Derek Wayne
2:43
Johnson. How you doing today? I'm great, man. How you doing? Doing very well. It's It's good to see you. How are you
2:49
enjoying your summer? At the time of this recording, it's summertime. It's hot, but you know, I'm enjoying it. Uh
2:55
it's been a while since you and I have done anything quite like this. Well, we've never done anything like this
3:02
together. Yeah, let's talk about this. So there's people listening to this episode who haven't heard my Rocky
3:07
podcast because there's just they're actually sly fans who are just Rambo fans who aren't necessarily Rocky fans.
3:13
So they haven't gone and listened to the Rocky podcast. So on my Rocky podcast called Going the Distance, Derek, you
3:19
guest did or I interviewed you four times. Four times for four different projects. What is your fandom slash
3:28
history with uh Sylvester Stallone? you want to kind of briefly talk about that the extensive history. So, first of all,
3:34
I also have to point out I came prepared. Nice. Love that shirt. That's awesome. It's so old it doesn't even
3:40
fit. But anyway, um uh gosh, well, I did, for those that don't know, as Ryan
3:47
said, I directed um a few documentaries, worked on a few documentaries with Sly.
3:53
First one being John G. Albertson, King of the Underdogs, about uh the director of Rocky and the Karate Kid. and then
3:59
Sly and I did 40 years of Rocky, the birth of a classic. Then Stallone Frank
4:05
that is. So I directed those three and then I edited um the making of Rocky versus Drogo for Sly. That's awesome.
4:12
And I'm also doing a little other little project right now that's really cool that you'll find out soon enough. So I
4:19
just kind of have a working history with Slive and obviously a fan of Rocky and Rambo and just the whole Stallone thing.
4:26
So that's how you and I met was for the first documentary. You hit me up to do
4:33
an interview for King of the Underdogs and we just became buds. Yeah. It's amazing and it it works out. It's been
4:40
an honor and a privilege to become a fan of your work and become a friend of
4:46
yours. Yeah. I just uh it's amazing this community that has happened because of podcasting and the fandom of Stallone's
4:53
uh work and it's just it's just u I never dreamed when I first started this podcasting business I don't mean like
5:00
that but like hobby six years ago that I would make friends and uh make acquaintances with such great people and
5:06
Derek you're certainly I say you're in the top three top maybe top maybe top four now that I said four I don't want
5:12
to say where where you place in that but you know I'm just joking uh you're definitely You're you're definitely one
5:17
of the top people I've met just not because of your work with Sly because of you. You're just a good person and you you're incredible talent and I I I love
5:24
your work and now last time we talked you were working on your own film, right? Yeah. That's one thing that
5:30
people get confused that they think I just documentaries in in particular like Stallone documentaries. We made uh my
5:37
latest feature film called Bloodstreams which is coming out next year. Stars Yui Yakamoto from Karate Kid 2 and Cobra
5:44
Kai. Nice. Han Sodto from Cobraai. We shot that last year. We wanted it to
5:50
come out this year, but with independent features, sometimes you got to wait. Yeah, we hope to turn it into a trilogy.
5:56
That would be really nice. That's awesome. And now you I can't wait to see that. And we talked about that on our
6:01
one of our four interviews. I'm going to send a link in the show notes of this one of all the four interviews you did with me so people can go check those out
6:08
because a lot of great stories from you about slide, a lot of great slide stories, insight, background. I mean, it's just amazing. If you're a Sylvester
6:14
Stallone fan andor Rocky fan, I highly recommend those interviews. You gave me some stories and stuff that I
6:20
relistening to them there. It's just amazing background you've given me there. Are you not able to talk about the project that's sort of not a secret
6:27
anymore? I I you know which one I'm talking about. Are you not allowed to say anything or it was on Facebook? So, yeah. No, I I can't say details about
6:35
it, but um for those of you who know James Rolf, the angry video game nerd of
6:40
Cinem Massacre, uh he and I just recently went out and did a Rocky 4
6:47
location tour video that uh will be on the Cinem Master channel channel channel
6:53
soon. James has been a friend of mine for a few years. I actually was on his show about 5 years ago to talk about
6:59
King of the Underdogs and yeah, he's just a great guy and he he I've known about this for about a year and a half
7:05
and then we finally executed it and uh Sly knows about it and he thinks we're nuts, but uh he was really cool and
7:12
really like helpful and whatnot. So, it's going to be coming out. I can't talk about it. I wouldn't want to spoil
7:19
that for James. Yeah, it's going to be fun. I don't know when it's going to drop, but hopefully soon. I had the
7:24
opportunity and the honor of actually interviewing James in the early days of my podcasting. He took a chance on me
7:30
and my brother. I'll talk to you offline, but I I feel like it wasn't the best interview. I wasn't good at interviewing yet. He was really gracious
7:36
and he was really uh you know he I just I listened back to that interview and I cringe a little bit cuz like h we just
7:42
I'm hoping he gives me another chance. Maybe when you guys promote this thing you'll come on together or separately. I
7:47
don't know. But uh I'll I'll talk to you more offline. But I really hope James if you're listening to this I apologize. It
7:52
was four or five years ago when I interviewed you. I wasn't quite I'm better now. You know, we all grow grow and learn and what have you. Everybody
7:58
needs a warm-up period. So, you're good. I know. Well, I don't know if I'm much better, but anyways. Okay. Well, what is
8:04
your background with Rambo? Like, what's your fandom with the Rambo series with First Butt Part Two in particular? But
8:10
do you like the series or what's going on here, Derek? Honestly, I was a Rambo fan before Rocky because that was in the
8:16
order of what I grew up watching. I think as a matter of fact, some of my family members when I was a kid called
8:22
me Rambo just cuz I was like obsessed. I was born in ' 83. The Rambo movies were
8:28
just, you know, obviously part one was 82 and then part two 85, part three 88.
8:34
So prime Rambo experience as a kid. I
8:39
had like the Rambo tricycle, the Rambo bazooka, the Rambo gun, which I still
8:44
have, the action figures, the whole thing. And I thought I was Rambo. And it really First Blood you knew was a really
8:52
great film even as a kid, but you always watched Rambo 2 because it was awesome.
8:59
And then Rambo 3 if it was just on, let's be honest. But uh still a fun
9:04
film. It was just a part of my life, you know. And you know me, Ryan, I'm not like a crazed fan. I'm a filmmaker who
9:13
has influences and and certainly First Blood and was one of them. As a matter of fact, I I got on VHS like the Rambo
9:21
trilogy when they put it out in the mid '90s. But before that, I only had First
9:28
Blood taped off of NBC, its network television premiere in 1985 that my
9:34
mother recorded and I watched that tape with commercials for like 20 years.
9:39
That's all. So, yeah, I actually told Sly that one. He thought that was hilarious. Hey, do you remember any of the commercials that were on there in '
9:45
85? I don't remember, but obviously I got the VHS's, then I got the Blu-ray,
9:50
excuse me, the DVDs, and so like I haven't watched that tape in so long, so I don't remember. But that was huge for
9:57
me. Let's talk about Sly. Like, I actually found pictures of me back then and I would send them to him, like me
10:03
holding the Rambo bazooka or the tricycle or whatever, and he just thought that was hilarious. Do you still
10:09
have those pictures? I didn't think to prepare. I can add it to the video if you if you don't mind sharing. I can put
10:14
it on the the video that go on YouTube. We can show the people those pictures. Yeah, I've got I've got a few of them
10:20
and um you know approved. There you go. And then I have a really cool Rambo 2
10:26
story coming up that I'll I'll share with you. I may have I probably told you about it. There was an object from the
10:32
film that I've held in my hand, which is cool. That's right. That's right. If you want to share, you can share it now.
10:37
This is this would be a good time to share it. Yeah. So, one day I'm at Frank Stallone's house and he just has like
10:44
memorabilia everywhere. Like he's got Rocky stuff like you know the original stuff. Rocky stuff, Rambo stuff,
10:51
whatever. One day I was just down in his office which is in on the the basically
10:58
it's like a basement but it's like an office. I just look over amongst all this stuff and I see an
11:07
arrow and I walk over to it. It's just loose like in his house like leaned up
11:13
against a shelf or something. I go, "Can I can I pick this up?" And I picked it
11:18
up. I go, "Frank, is this an original Rambo 2 explosive arrow?" He goes, "Oh,
11:25
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah." It was just plastic. the explosive tip that he
11:30
screws on. Obviously, that was real or not real, but metal. But the dummy
11:35
arrow, it was just plastic and it was all one piece. Obviously, he screws it on,
11:40
that's all metal, yada yada yada. The dummy arrow was just one solid piece of
11:46
and then it had this plastic tip and it was painted. And I'm like holding the dummy arrow that Sly pulls back and
11:54
whatnot. And I was just like, and it's just loose in Frank's house. It's pretty wild. That is awesome. I love that
11:59
you've touched a real and very iconic. I mean, other than the knife, the Rambo
12:04
knife, I would say the explosive arrows, it's pretty iconic in the Rambo film, especially part two. Great payoff.
12:10
Unfortunately, not the scene that we're covering today, but a great payoff later in the film of of that arrow being used. I love it. That's a I think that arrow
12:18
scene for me as a young lad when I first saw the film, I think it sticks out for everyone, you know. Yeah. I don't think I ever saw a person get blown up before,
12:24
you know, on film. It's a great moment and the sound effects of the arrow itself are just out of this world.
12:32
That's right. The way whatever that sound kind of makes that kind of weird wind, you know, it's
12:38
a great great sound effect. Do you know for the soundtrack? This is just one fan talking to another. You know, in the
12:44
great theme throughout the the movie by Jerry Goldsmith, the iconic Rambo 2 theme with
12:49
that sound, that kind of Do you know what instrument makes that sound or how
12:54
they get that kind of weird? I don't actually. That's a great question. It's clearly It sounds like it has strings,
13:01
right? Okay. I don't know. I I'm a terrible instrument guy. Someone did mention something on the previous uh
13:07
Discord and I if they're in there now, they can tell us again. I I forget what they called it. some sort of, you know, the song Sweet Emotion by Aerosmith.
13:14
They're saying that same kind of instrument might have been used for that. Oh, I know. Okay. I saw Aerosmith in concert, so I remember actually. Yes,
13:22
I can see. Actually, if I remember correctly, Steven Tyler was the one he would turn away from the crowd and he
13:29
would do whatever that was. I'm talking out loud here cuz the memories hitting me, but I remember him creating that
13:35
sound on stage when I saw Aerosmith. So, we're getting closer. We're getting closer to figuring out what that what
13:40
that instrument was. Dave in our Discord, if it was him, he said he called it a vibra slap. Makes sense.
13:46
Okay. Yep. Okay. So, there you go. So, I got to Google what that looks like. Now, people who are listening to our chat
13:51
right now, there's a few of you here. We welcome you to the Discord. If you're watching this on YouTube, I encourage you to join our Discord of the Last of
13:57
the Action Heroes podcast. Join our Discord. So, when we do these recordings of Rambo and uh Rocky on my other
14:03
podcast, you can join the discussion live, talk to the guest host or talk to me. Uh today's obviously a very special
14:08
guest uh with Derek. So the few that are here, you have that privilege of seeing Derek live. If you have questions for
14:14
Derek right now, I think you got one that just came in. Save them for the end. If Derek has the time and he's able
14:19
to say what he's able to say, you know, he can't share everything. If you have any kind of questions for him, I know
14:24
he'll feel free to to answer those questions, but we'll save it to the end. So what we're do now is we are going to
14:30
roll into the coverage of the film. We were just told by Murdoch to Colonel Troutman in the film that Rambo has 36
14:37
hours. Okay, he's got 36 hours to do his mission. Murdoch could care less if he's alive or dead. Troutman had to twist his
14:43
arm, say, "Come on, we owe him 36 hours. Let's give it to him. We know it's Rambo we're talking about." Now, Rambo didn't
14:50
land where he was supposed to land. They do address it later in the scene. You'll see it come up, but they do subtly
14:56
address it cuz right away we see Rambo running kind of fast. So, we get the indication that he's got to make up some
15:03
[Music]
15:15
ground. I mean, right there, that shot of him climbing the rocks. I love the
15:20
cinematic aesthetic of this second film. What are your thoughts on just how the We're going to get to all the jungle
15:26
scenes, but just overall like how what is your cuz you're a film guy. Like what do you think of the tones or the film
15:32
texture of part two? I'm so glad you asked that cuz earlier this morning I had it on, you know, to prep for this
15:38
and as a refresher. Obviously, First Blood is beautiful. That is so rich. The
15:44
colors and everything. It's just obviously a perfect film. Rambo 2 has a
15:50
different look altogether. They have that gaued over look and it just has
15:55
this steamy jungle appearance and um the shot the previous shot of the rocks and
16:01
whatnot. There's a lot of scope here but also it has like a very muggy feel to
16:06
it. It's sweaty if that if that makes sense. Absolutely. Um was intentional to
16:12
give you that jungle feeling. And how would they do that? How would they give that film? I want to say foggy, but it's
16:18
that weird. You almost look like you can see the humidity on film. How how would they do that? So, a couple things. One,
16:24
clearly it's intentional, but sometimes it it may not be. So, sometimes your lenses will fog over due to the
16:33
temperature, and you may need to just wait sometimes, you know, 45 minutes for a lens to kind of defog. But if you want
16:40
it to be intentionally, sometimes you can shoot with that lens a little foggy.
16:46
That's one. Two, back in the old days, they would put Vaseline on the lens. So, there's all sorts of other kind of gauze
16:53
type uh filters that you could physically do in camera. Nowadays, we just do it in post obviously, right? So,
17:01
um there's a couple different ways that they could have achieved that. Okay, awesome. And I love how I do love how
17:08
the Rambo character I say Ramble character. I love how Ramble was already wearing his headband around his his
17:15
head. I just No, look, it's sweaty. I get it. I mean, it's a headband. And I've always said if style was not a
17:21
thing, if I had like no pride, I do a lot of jogging and it gets hot in the summer and when I jog, I do I bring
17:27
actually I bring a little like cloth in my hand and I'll do the wipe as I jog. So, I just have a cloth in my hand as I
17:33
draw and I wipe cuz the sweat will come down my face on my sunglasses. So, that's what the headband stops you from
17:39
doing. I get it. It's aesthetically I'm not Rambo and nobody wears headbands anymore. Like, listen. How many times
17:44
you see people jogging with headbands? It's just back in the 70s and ' 80s. Absolutely. But you don't do it anymore.
17:49
So, maybe I should start the movement of like making headbands great again. I
17:55
think you should. Um, I mean, you have uh in one he wears just like the tan
18:01
looking one that he ripped from the can't think of the material. Then there's the black one. Then we know
18:07
what's coming up, the iconic red one, right? So, you have three to choose from
18:13
as far as Rambo is concerned. Yeah. I I just can't pull it off. It also keeps his luscious hair out of his eyes a
18:19
little bit. So, you know, now that was his real hair, I assume, was it? cuz he he released Rocky 4 and Rambo 2 the same
18:27
year. I guess the film order. Did he grow the hair for one and cut it for the other? I'm Yeah, I'm pretty sure he did
18:34
Rambo 2 first and then cut it for uh for Rocky 4. I guess it would make more
18:39
sense between films to kind of grow it long film and then cut your hair for the other. Yeah. Okay. Right. Yeah.
18:47
[Music] There's that foggy look.
18:56
Now, that's actually not Rambo. That's Stallone just doing his morning workout and they just got it on camera. It's
19:01
between takes like, "Hey, we should probably just use that in the film." It just got Stallone running around the jungle keeping in shape cuz that guy
19:07
never stops. He doesn't he always like work out between scenes and do push-ups and squeezes his arm thing or whatever.
19:13
And Yeah. Yeah. We highlight that in uh the making of Rocky versus Drago where he's squeezing the the clip. I mean,
19:20
yeah. He just won't stop. He won't settle down. So, there's a scene coming up here where, of course, Rambo, you know, he's been dropped. This I love
19:26
this little moment. He's getting his coordinates. And of course, he's checking his compass. He's checking his bearings. He wants to get to where the
19:31
drop zone was supposed to be. But I love how he takes out the compass from the bottom of his knife. And this was a big thing. And I actually had a knife. I had
19:38
a Rambo knife. I think a lot of kids did. It's a cheap knockoff, you know, crappy one. But it had a compass on the
19:44
bottom, little bulbous compass with liquid and it spun. I think it might have pointed north. I don't know. I'm
19:49
sure his is probably a little bit [Music] better. Okay, so he's going to pull out
19:56
the knife, check the compass, and this is a Come on. This is very 80s. This is a very 80s moment what we're about to
20:01
see here. So, we got a snake coming over his
20:06
shoulder. You notice that wasn't him? I just noticed it for the first time in my life on the first shot of the snake. Oh,
20:15
well, if it's a real snake next to a Yeah. As you think about it, like it right play real quick. Oh, yeah. Sorry.
20:22
Right there. Pretty sure that's a double. And then they would have Yeah, you could tell that doesn't look like
20:27
Sly. Oh, and then for the shot of him holding it, obviously they cut back to you and that's that's Sly. Yeah, that
20:34
is. Cuz if it was Sly, they would have more of the face showing. Why not? If
20:39
you're going to stand there anyways, why not just be more of a side profile with a snake there? Why not? Absolutely. I
20:46
think that's his double. No, that's Frank Stallone. Frank Stallone is expendable. He can have his face bit.
20:52
[Music]
20:58
And I could be wrong, but I don't think I am. I don't think you are. Good. I And of course, Rambo kills the snake again.
21:04
PETA now has written to the show saying, "How dare you glorify the killing of snake?" I assume it was a rubber snake.
21:11
I assume it wasn't a real snake. I I highly doubt Stallone grabbed a real snake and choked the life out of it. But I could be wrong, right? You know, he
21:18
did want to kill a real boar and first blood [Music]
21:29
apparently. Now, apparently First Blood Part Two was uh filmed in Mexico. Yeah. Yeah, I believe it was. So those statues
21:36
that we see there, those kind of like I don't know which religious personalities they are of. Are you familiar with the
21:43
culture in Vietnam or what they what religion they are or I would assume Buddhist. Yeah, those were probably just
21:50
clearly styrofoam kind of mockups that they that they made and shipped in.
21:56
Yeah, I love I love how they're just scattered throughout the jungle. You know, these random statues. Yeah. Shrines.
22:02
Shrines. That's I mentioned in the previous episode and I forgot how much Rambo does wear this black kind of
22:09
jacket shirt. I love how he looks. He's got the black headband with the black jacket. He'll eventually take it off cuz
22:15
he has to expose, you know, his workout. He can't do the workout and not have his arms and chest showing throughout the
22:20
movie. And I know it's hot, but come on. You know, let's be honest here. He He wants to show off his physique. Have you noticed that he never wears camouflage?
22:28
He never wears camo. We assume we the '8s, you know, camo like he doesn't
22:34
really wear camo, right? No. In any of the It is interesting. Now we uh It's
22:39
funny back in the 80s, I don't know if you remember, you're a little younger than me, but back in the 80s, camouflage pants was very in vogue like and they
22:47
were expensive. I never had a pair cuz it was it was too expensive for my parents to buy. We had four boys, right?
22:53
So if one boy had it, we had to buy four pairs. But it was very if you wore camouflage pants, you were cool, right?
23:04
He's like sensing a presence in the jungle. He's not alone. Yeah. I love all these shrines of
23:12
these uh deities. It's pretty cool. It's a really cool aesthetic. Mhm. To give
23:17
you the indication that he truly is in a foreign land again.
23:23
Now, we'll we'll play out the sequence here, but just for our listeners, of course, at home who are not watching this on YouTube, we have a character in
23:29
the background who seems to be shadowing Rambo. Rambo senses the individual. The
23:34
individual knows that Ramble's there. So, it's a bit of a cat and mouse game between these two individuals. Let's see
23:40
how it plays out. We get a little indication here, of
23:46
course, of Rambo's uh stealth abilities, right? This is uh showing you how stealthy he can be in the in the jungle
23:52
like a cat.
24:01
[Music] Why don't we talk about the character Co
24:08
Bao played by Julia Nixon? First off, can I just say she's gorgeous? I mean, I think we all can agree. We get why Rambo
24:15
gets spitten right away. She actually said one time, if you, you know, you've seen the special features
24:21
of the making of and whatnot, she says that this was a rare occurrence where the man was better looking than the
24:27
woman. Sorry, Julia Nixon, you couldn't be more wrong. Like, she looks great.
24:34
She's stunning. And unfortunately, is the right word. I mean, she's had a career. I just look at her filmography
24:41
here and it's just nothing really pops out. I mean, she has some lot of guest appearances, uh, TV work. I mean, you
24:47
can have a great career doing TV work. I would love to be a character actor in TV
24:53
shows. You know, you go from she's been in Star Trek. She's been in like Kung Fu. She was in Crime Story, Airwolf,
25:00
Magnapi, Chicago Hope, Jag, Nash Bridges, Days of Our Lives, even Castle.
25:05
Her last TV guest appearance was 2016. Her last film was 2018. So she's had a
25:11
career, but her first film was this film and Yeah. So what a great get for your
25:17
first film, but it oddly enough it never and maybe and I hate to say it because she's Asian and this was the '8s. It's
25:24
too bad she didn't get discovered now with this how she looks now because well, we know diversity in film is much
25:30
more now. You know what I mean? And I it's just too bad that it just never popped later in her career, but because
25:36
she kind of she popped early back when casting Asians wasn't really a didn't
25:41
happen a lot in Hollywood for big time films. So, what are you maybe maybe I'm wrong, but she should have been a bigger
25:47
actress is what I'm getting at. Yeah. Yeah. I I agree. Um it and it it is unfortunate but you know women like
25:54
herself you know they're pioneers that led up to this point where we are when it comes to diversity in Hollywood. So I
26:02
hope she knows that for many many fans she's an icon you know certainly for us
26:08
for many young boys she's she's look I fell in love with her in the film man.
26:13
Absolutely. I mean, she's recently my friend on Facebook or as of the last
26:18
couple years, but we never speak or anything. But it was just cuz it's like I saw Julia Nixon's name on the people
26:24
you may know and I'm like click, you know what I mean? Cuz like to us she's definitely iconic and again a beauty of
26:32
of our childhood and and still is. Oh yeah, absolutely. Louise in our chat said that he thinks that she might be
26:39
the hottest woman of Sly movies. Eagle. That's accurate. Yeah. And he's had some
26:45
cute ones back in there. Uh I mean, I hate to say the prime. We're all in our prime at some point, but you know, Sandra Bulock, Demolition, Man was very
26:51
cute. Sharon Stone is a gorgeous woman. I mean, there's some He's had some great Maline Stowe, even Avenging D'Angelo.
26:57
Terrible film, but Maline Stow was a gorgeous woman in that film. So, a lot a lot of competition, but yeah, definitely
27:03
uh Julie Nixon would be up there in that discussion. That's awesome. I'm going to have to go with Julian Nixon. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I like it. All right.
27:11
So, they have their introductions here. I don't speak Vietnamese. I don't know. Maybe they're exchanging deets for later. I'm not sure what they're saying
27:17
here.
27:26
Who knows what they said there, but she did start with Rambo. You know, that's a good indication. I might know who you
27:31
are cuz I really don't think anyone else in this area would just happen to know that my name is Rambo. So, but she
27:37
continues the conversation in Vietnamese all the same. What are your thoughts on the reason why she spoke Vietnamese to
27:42
him instead of just continue with English if this was supposed to be his her American counterpart as well? You know, that's interesting. I never I've
27:50
never questioned it. I think you just raised a good question. Clearly, uh that
27:55
was a choice in the script. I don't know. I don't I don't have any wisdom on
28:01
that one. But that's actually a good point that you raised. Like why if she has a knife to her a knife is raised,
28:08
why wouldn't she speak English to a known American? Yeah. It could be also
28:14
that maybe she knows that there's a Soviet presence and he could be a Soviet, so
28:20
she's not going to just immediately speak English. I don't know. Yeah, that's good. Good point. Did not expect
28:25
a woman. No, we better go. Now, I love that. That's, you know, you didn't expect a woman know. And of course, we
28:31
the audience didn't as well. Oh, and that's this is actually very um again for speaking of the '8s, we have a an
28:37
Asian actress for American Hollywood type film. She's going to be the sidekick to uh the Ramble character.
28:43
Stallone has actually always been very forward about his uh casting, you know, with Apollo Creed. You know, to have his
28:49
counterparts to not be white. Now he's got an Asian female. Like he got a hand to slide. He's always been very good
28:55
about kind of forward in Hollywood with his casting and and writing choices. But I will say in the within the film, it
29:01
doesn't make sense. What I'm getting at is because if he's being briefed on his who he needs to meet, your one contact,
29:08
you would probably give all the information. Like being in the again, being in the military that I'm in, you would brief the indiv she's female,
29:14
she's 23 years old, you know, she's 5'2, whatever it is, like you, this is who
29:20
you're going, she'll be wearing this, and she'll be XYZ. So, in your code words, that's the other thing. They're
29:26
probably speaking code to each other. Like in the military, we have like if you're out doing an operation and you you have a contact with somebody, I give
29:32
you a code word, you give one back to me. So I know that you're part of the same team. So that's might have been what they were doing there. You think
29:38
they would have told by the way your your contacts a female. So don't be surprised by that. But for the audience
29:43
purposes, yeah, it's that's the reveal. The screenplay by Sylvester and James Cameron and they're actually not
29:51
military men as yourself. Clearly, I'm sure they had an adviser, a technical
29:56
adviser, but I think also it's just it's just a movie. And that's the thing that like you have to with these these type
30:03
of films, you have to remember it's not Platoon, it's Rambo. Yeah, of course I
30:08
don't. But at the same time, for us fans, it's like we want to know. We want to know like why. And so you have a good
30:15
point there that maybe because you are a military man that maybe that that was the code. And and it's interesting that
30:21
that wasn't for the audience. Maybe that was for them. Also, it heightens that
30:27
her first English line. You weren't expecting a woman, huh? So, yeah. Yeah, they probably said their code. They met.
30:34
Now they know who each other are. And then they move on. Love it. To go to
30:40
river. How come you're so late? Got hung up. Uhhuh. You got hung up. You
30:46
get it? He was hanging on the plane. That's all. I have arranged boats down river. Old
30:53
ways not safe. You come a long way, Rambo, to see empty camps.
31:00
So, she's already indicated that she too feels that the camp is empty. So, I guess they've done a good job hiding the
31:06
prisoners cuz she's a local and she's saying that, hey, where we're going, there is no there are no prisoners there. And she has no reason to lie. So,
31:12
I guess to the credit of the Vietnamese holding those prisoners of war have done a good job hiding it from the public cuz
31:18
even the locals haven't seen them. Yeah, absolutely. You know, you just can't beat real jungle for filming. This is
31:26
not a set. This is the jungles of Mexico. And I think if it were shot nowadays, it
31:32
would have just it just would have found a way to make it look so fake and
31:38
overdone. And this is just you can feel this. You can reach out and touch this
31:43
jungle like Predator. Yes. Real jungle. Yeah. Also in New Mexico. I mean, you
31:49
look at this stuff, you know, a location manager had to go out and, you know, and the director, they had to find these
31:55
locations. And boy, did they do a good job. Nothing beats real. And I know with today's films, it doesn't happen as much
32:02
as it should. You just know the difference when you go back and watch the 80s films and '7s films. You
32:07
definitely uh get the real aesthetic. It just feels grittier. That's the word. Grittier. It just when it's real, it's
32:12
grittier. They've arrived at the river boat. It's run by pirates. So Ramble goes, "You're using pirates." And she
32:19
basically says, "Well, yeah, cuz we've we're not bugged as much. The pirates, you know, are kind of their own army. We're not bugged as much by the other
32:25
army." So that kind of makes sense. But you see they have hubcaps here. You know, they're selling hubcaps. Looks like they're selling, you know, you
32:31
know, weapons and what have you. But you'll notice here when we go up a little bit in time in the film here,
32:36
there's a laser disc box. And I was surprised by that. Laser. Yeah. Watch. It's coming. Suspicious.
32:43
So she says the army is isn't as suspicious. Right here you've got right there a laser disc. Is that a laser disc or Oh, maybe it's lasic. Oh, okay. Oh,
32:50
it isic. Lasic. I don't know what is. Maybe somebody in your Discord can Google Lasonic for me and tell me in
32:56
Discord what that is just so I don't wreck my recording here. Google Lasonic and see what kind of maybe it looks like
33:01
a ghetto blaster box maybe or something like that. I'm not sure. Okay. But yeah, so there's they're selling different
33:07
stuff or what have you. Yeah, that's interesting. Still a good eye. Yeah, I love that kind of stuff. The back the
33:13
background stuff. Mhm. So we'll see cuz I thought 85 would have been too early for laser disc, but I could be wrong.
33:24
I wait. So they're greeting the pirates. I guess the captain's going to come out and talk
33:30
to them and they're going to have a cash exchange here. So, the cash exchange happens. But check out this guy's teeth.
33:35
I always wonder, did they actor's teeth or is this guy just have bad teeth? I've always wondered about this kind of stuff. Look at his teeth here. Oh, I
33:42
don't know. I always laughed at how he was dressed. The tight shirt that we'll see here in a little bit. It's kind of
33:49
funny. So, these guys is showing you here. Ramble's looking around the camp. Obviously, he feels unsafe and he's it's
33:55
unsettling cuz pirates would be unpredictable. Of course, they're all holding weapons. So, even if Ramble's in a bind, if you think about it, because
34:02
Ramble could probably take out a few guys before he's get take but he's surrounded by pirates all holding weapons and headbands. Headbands. Yeah,
34:08
they're wearing Vietnamese headbands background. He looks like Rambo with the necklace and the pose and everything.
34:15
He's the Vietnamese Rambo. There you go. And of course they're showing you there's a girl, young lady washing up in
34:21
a basin and she's topless but she's holding a towel to indicate of course it's you know they probably run
34:27
prostitution everything here right it's everything. Mhm. So they do the cash exchange count it looks like a good good
34:34
bunch of cash. American dollar by the way
34:41
looks like. Yeah looks like looks like American. Yeah. So nothing uh nothing really happens. They get on the boat and
34:47
they uh and they continue uh down the river. I love how they say the the old ways aren't safe anymore. And I don't
34:53
know what she meant by that, but maybe the roadways or pathways weren't safe, but I guess the water is. But so the
34:59
captain comes down here and he's going to hit on her, off her alcohol, touches her hair, and Rambo does a pretty good
35:05
thing here. He knows that this guy obviously is a creep. He interrupts the conversation by distracting them, which
35:10
I think was a good uh good on his part. [Applause] [Music]
35:16
on. What about patrol boats? An home. Oh,
35:25
and that's the chart I was talking about. He's got the the tied knot and everything that the captain has. It's
35:31
kind of funny. That's awesome. Doesn't look too threat. No. No. So, the captain was about, you know, was kind of hitting
35:37
on the girl, but Rambo does a good job. Just what about the patrol bolts? you know, I I don't think he really cares,
35:42
but it was a way to distract the captain, and he seemed pretty happy to show them, uh, look, I've got a rocket
35:47
launcher. And then, of course, he he shows the rocket launcher, and you say to yourself as a viewer, gee, I wonder if this will come come into play later
35:54
in the film. It's a great opportunity to show the next little fun object of the
35:59
movie cuz in one, you introduce the knife, and two, that iconic bazooka shot
36:08
of Sly. So, yeah. Is your shirt that you're wearing right now? Is that the one with this with Yeah, there it is.
36:13
There it is. That's awesome. So, he's showing a rocket launcher and of course it has Russian lettering on the warhead.
36:20
Those dirty Russians, they're always causing problems from 1985 to now those guys. Russian, right?
36:29
I always like that because it kind of shows obviously his natural his mind,
36:34
his intellect, but also he's kind of like a detective in a way. Great point. The Rambo is not just a beast in the
36:41
forest and the jungle and war. He's actually clever. He understands things, his surroundings. He's not just a
36:47
killer. He's a He's a thinker, too. We do a quick little cut scene here with Murdoch and Triman, of course, back to
36:52
the base camp. And Triman's looking at, I guess, undeveloped film. That's all they show here. They're kind of just
36:58
showing that they don't trust each other. They don't like each other.
37:05
Like I think it's just showing that Trrowman's taking the mi the mission seriously and Murdoch's just biting his
37:10
time so he doesn't have to go get Rambo I think is what what it might be showing. Mhm. One thing on Murdoch that
37:16
always when I was a little kid I would kind of get confused because he resembles Brian Denah if you really look
37:22
at him. If you put Brian Denhe and and Murdoch Charles Napier together they would pass as brothers. So, in my young
37:31
1980s brain, I was like, is that the same guy from one? Clearly not. Sure,
37:37
that's fair. Yeah, if you when you don't recognize actors faces so much back when you're younger. Yeah, I can see you
37:42
probably weren't the only one that might have gotten Denihei and Charles Naper kind of confused, but good poll there.
37:48
Co just asked, you know, are you hungry? And she brought up her little container. I don't know what could have been in
37:54
there, but and Rob was like, oh, maybe later. Or he, she he said, no, thank you. She says, well, maybe later. Now they're gonna have their dinner and
38:00
date, right? This is like a dinner date. This is their their first kind of date together here because we know they fall in love. Yeah, they do have a rushed
38:07
Hollywood romance. So So this is their dinner. Now they're going to have their small talk, first date conversation, get
38:13
to know each other. How you get into this?
38:20
It's a long story. Long ride. She's like, "How did you get into this?" Long story. A long ride. He could have said, "Well, just watch the first film. Come
38:27
back to me. Right. And I love that the captain uh in one of the pirates is in the background. Oh, I never caught that.
38:34
Yeah. Yeah. Look at them hanging out in the front there of the of the boat. Yeah. Oh, and also I just noticed since
38:41
you paused it looks like a possible nude photo up top on the right. Right here.
38:49
Yeah. So, I think that's what that is. Kind of just shows that, you know, these guys are out there. They're they're
38:55
scumbags and Yeah. Now, there's no Wi-Fi. There's no Wi-Fi. There you go.
39:00
Yeah, it's kind of neat like pausing it and looking at the different art direction on the film. We got a couple
39:07
of things in our chat here. Um Dave let us know that the uh Lasic thing was a
39:12
boom box. It was a ghetto blaster. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Donald says he feels bad that I have to edit this episode. I
39:18
don't feel bad. I'll be okay. It's what I do. It's what I It's why I get paid the big bucks.
39:24
Well, uh, after I left the special forces, I
39:30
moved around a lot. Why you leave on me? I
39:36
uh, sorry. I always thought Sly's cadence in this sequel was a little off
39:42
here in the course, the speech at the end. It's like he has these interesting pauses for some reason. I don't I don't
39:48
know. I totally agree. I would be interested to hear what Sly's reasoning for that was. The only theory I have
39:54
with this scene regarding the exactly what you're saying, I am talking kind of choppy and I don't, you know, maybe he's
40:00
doing a really bad, you know, James Kirk impersonation. I'm not sure, but he is
40:05
kind of clipping his word. The only thing I can think of is that he's opening up to someone. He hasn't talked
40:12
to anyone for years since the war in a real way other, you know, he broke down, of course, to trial at the end of part
40:19
one. He's been in prison now for a few years. I can imagine he's had some heartto-he
40:24
hearts with those inmates. He's talking to a female probably for the first time in I don't know how long. I think he
40:30
might have, you know, he's attracted, look, he's a guy, right? Of course he's attracted to this girl. So, I think all this combined, I think he's just having
40:36
a hard time speaking. It's like, oh yeah, I've got things to say and someone's actually listening to me. She seems to want to know me. And when's the
40:42
last time anyone's wanted to know him, like know who he is, right? Other than who are you? Why are you here? Why are
40:48
you carrying this knife? So, this is the first time someone's actually Hey, they're actually interested in who I am.
40:54
Yeah, that's a good point. There's another war going on. What war?
41:02
Kind of like a quiet war. War
41:07
against all the soldiers returning. It's kind of where you don't win. I wonder
41:12
cuz he wrote this film and he obviously he took the character from David Morell and he kind of ran with it with these
41:18
films. He definitely pushes on with the second film in particular about the the Vietnam vets and their struggle as uh
41:25
returning soldiers for that conflict because these soldiers had nothing to do with whether you agree the same with the
41:30
Afghanistan war or any of these wars. The soldiers have no control over the political powers that send them. Like
41:35
they go where they're sent. They don't agree or disagree with why they're there. They just have to go. That's their job. these soldiers return and
41:42
instead of honoring these soldiers, people spit at them, you know, call them baby killers and and they're like, "Hey, I'm just doing what the government, you
41:47
know, go be mad at the government, not at me who put my life on the line." But Sly, does he what's his connection to
41:53
the war effort? I mean, is he a patriot in real life? Does is this truly how he is this message that Sly carries? I
42:00
won't speak for him, but he's clearly a you know, a red-blooded American, as we
42:06
say, and you know, he's Rambo. He didn't serve, but he is obviously an
42:13
icon of the military within Hollywood.
42:18
You know, he was of that era. Like he was he was in school. He was in college, but he's of the Vietnam era. I mean, he
42:26
again didn't go to Vietnam, but he knew people that did. I think this is Yeah,
42:32
this is his way of kind of honoring them. I mean, this is the ultimate movie to honor PS and just veterans of of this
42:40
war in a very bombastic Hollywood way.
42:46
You know, a year later, once again, Platoon came out and that's the complete opposite of what this film is trying to
42:52
do. Again, I don't want to speak for him, but he certainly is um like I said, a red-blooded American. Yeah. No, I want
42:59
you to officially say Sly told me. I'll show Show me the text. Show me the text. I want you to tell me. Yeah. I feel the
43:04
same way. Um, it's always interesting now as you as we get older and we understand film making processes, the
43:10
writing and the author behind the writing, he must obviously have these sentiments cuz he plays them so well.
43:16
The only part of the scene that I would have changed differently when he talked about how I came back and the war was still going on. a better way to write
43:23
this scene today. Maybe he didn't think of it back then, but now with the mental health that we have and our understanding mental health, if he had
43:29
taken the knife and said the war in here and if he tapped on his head, I think that would just would have been a more
43:34
poant scene cuz he was talking about the war at home still against the civilians and the public and their persona or what
43:41
they feel about us as soldiers. But if you said, "I came back from the war and the war continued and she's like, "What
43:46
war?" And then he goes taps the war here and taps his head. Oh, no. I agree with
43:52
you. I think that that also would have helped the language barrier as it is to
43:58
give her a visual. So yeah, I agree. The warm side his head. I mean, I'm not saying I'm a
44:04
better writer than Sly, but I I'm a pretty good script doctor. That's all I'm saying. That's all I'm saying. Sly, if you want to come to me with any Tulsa
44:10
King notes and what have you, I'll give you a couple. Here you [Applause]
44:15
go. It's my problem. How about you? How'd you get into it?
44:21
My father worked for intelligence [Music] [Applause] agency. He killed and I take his
44:29
place. It's too much death here. Death [Music]
44:37
everywhere. Just want to live. [Applause]
44:42
Rumble. Maybe go America. Live the quiet life.
44:51
what you want to win or
44:58
survive. Okay, so there was a little bit of a hint there that come on Rambo. She's kind of flirting with you. Maybe
45:04
I'll go back to America. Maybe some white knight will take me back to America. She goes, "What do you want?"
45:10
Rambo missed an opportunity. He should have said, "Hey, I want that, too. You know, when we get we survive this thing. Let's uh let's go to America together. I
45:16
got a farm we can go to." But oh well. She asked here, "What's the reason to survive?" What are you getting at here? What are you fighting again? What What's
45:22
going on here? So easy to survive. Still war here. Survive a war.
45:30
You got to become war. That why they pick you? Cuz you like to fight.
45:38
[Applause] I'm expendable. Oh, there you go. Some
45:43
nerds out there. Expendable. Oh, here we go. I love it. I love it. And I wonder if Sly when he when he wrote he's funny
45:50
this way because I know I've I've wondered sometimes he wrote the Expendables. He created that series and we know he wrote the dialogue for this
45:57
film. Was there a part of him when he created the Expendables that he knew that he wrote that I'm expendable in
46:02
part two of Ramble? I think he had to have. I mean it's so iconic growing up.
46:09
That's the only way we knew about that word expendable was because of what this
46:14
movie scene right there. I think everyone knows and so he he had to have
46:19
known. Yeah, I I would think so. All right, so uh yeah, so he's about to explain expendable, which you know,
46:26
Ramble, he ain't no dummy. He does a great analogy how to explain expendable to a foreigner who might English isn't
46:31
their first language. So I think he does a great job explaining the word expendable. I like it. Mhm.
46:38
Expendable. What mean expendable?
46:43
It's like if someone invites you to a party and you
46:49
don't show up, doesn't really matter.
46:55
Okay. So, he really exposed himself there and he that's how he feels. He just feels like I show up every day to
47:02
work, to life, to the day that it greets me, and if I didn't show up today, I think he's just talking about life in
47:08
general. If I didn't if I didn't exist, does anybody care? Who cares if I don't exist? I'm expendable with life in
47:14
general. And you also could see how he had a little grin out of being bashful.
47:19
Explaining this to a beautiful woman, he's being bashful. He's not looking at her. He's looking around. He's almost
47:26
childlike in the way that he explains it in in this self-deprecating way. Then he
47:32
obviously deflects and goes to her necklace as we see here. Yeah. He points
47:37
to the necklace. What's this? gets a little bit handsy with her cuz he actually touches the necklace. I think come like hey, hands off the clavicle
47:43
there, Rambo. You This is your first date, you know. They bring me good luck.
47:52
What bring you good luck? So, she asked, "What brings you luck?"
47:57
And he brings up his knife. Cue the music. Yes. [Music]
48:03
And I know we were talking over it, but I during their little dinner date conversation here, they were playing the
48:09
theme of it's a long road when you're on
48:15
your own. It was the end of First Blood theme. They were playing that here to show this is a touching moment. It's a
48:21
calm moment. But I love it. They reintroduced the theme and the orchest orchestra music for that part here.
48:26
Again, a little 80s uh right, which I love the 80s, you know, like what brings you luck? And of course, that's kind of
48:31
that comedy moment. This big ass knife brings me luck. I will say to Co, though, with your necklace bringing you
48:36
good luck, I recommend you take it off in the next half hour.
48:42
Sorry. I don't think it brought you the luck you were hoping for. Okay. I don't want to spoil anything for anyone that hasn't seen the film. I can't imagine
48:48
who hasn't. In First Blood, the knife didn't bring Rambo any luck cuz that's
48:53
what got him busted. That's right. So, they both have terrible terrible good luck charms. Yeah. Terrible good, you
49:01
know. Yeah. I love it.
49:08
No further cat music. I want to go. That's great. Yeah, I didn't even catch that. That's right. The the scene
49:14
changed, the score changed. Now we're going back to the going back to the command central, you know, ratat. And I
49:20
love I love how Murdoch's just always just his feet are on the desk. He's munching on a sandwich. He's drinking
49:26
Coke. Uh just lazair type attitude about this whole situation. And I love his
49:32
little goon guy there with the sunglasses again saying in the background. A great side character of just a real douche. Oozes that
49:39
douchiness this guy. And of course Erikson drinking his uh Martin Co. Have you ever met him? I think you have. You
49:45
interviewed him. We we go way back. I've been to his home like Yeah. We were buds
49:50
for quite a for quite a few years and uh have a lot of fun memories with with
49:56
Marty. He's he was great. That's why I was like, "Are you serious?" To be fair, I know nobody. Okay. I don't have any uh
50:02
any quote unquote verified celebrity, blue check mark celebrities in my life. So, you have such a plethora that I lose
50:10
track of who you know, who you've talked to. Maybe I should just assume I should just probably ask when's the last time
50:15
you talked to Martin Co. That's probably what I should have said. I apologize. It it's No, you're funny. Uh, well,
50:22
frankly, for about I don't know, like four years, like I saw him all the time. Like all the time. When Cobra Kai came
50:28
out, he just got, I guess, super busy. And I haven't seen him in in a few years. So, we were like a few years
50:34
always seeing each other at screenings and whatever his home. I I remember one time I went to his house and helped him
50:40
put his shower curtain back up cuz it fell. Little weird stories like that. But since Cobraai, I just really haven't
50:47
seen him. So, I'd say Oh, you know what? I know the last time I saw him was John Abton's memorial. He spoke and I spoke
50:54
and several others. Yeah. Now, is this is it
50:59
pronounced Cove or Cole? Because I've heard it both ways. Cove V. Oh, it is
51:04
the V is pronounced. Okay. All right. All right. Yeah. So, uh yeah, cool. A great character actor. Uh yeah, I love
51:11
him. But let's check out what Murdoch has to say to Triman here about this uh mission. Met Thawn. Denied. Denied. It's
51:19
an unnecessary risk. We have a schedule to keep it. With who? We don't even know if Rambo's alive. The odds are against
51:24
it. You said we'd go through as planned. Okay. If you want to go through with it,
51:30
we will. Colonel's going to be joining the extraction team. You're a damn good man. Trapman.
51:37
Porsches. Coke. Okay. So, we'll stop it there for this episode as far as the film goes. We'll talk about the scene,
51:43
though. So originally Troutman was a part of not the extraction team. The original mission was Rama goes in takes
51:49
photos. If there was PS found then he was going to be part of the team that got the PS. But now the mission has
51:55
changed of course where they are going to extract Rambo after all. I'm a little confused by the writing here. It seems
52:02
like there's two because Tman was always going to be part of a team that was going to get PS but now I guess they're
52:08
saying extraction as in just to get Rambo out. Maybe that's how I always saw it was that it's a way to turn on the
52:16
audience. The audience doesn't know that they're not interested in extracting PS
52:24
yet. If we're led to believe that he's saying, "Oh, now Trapman's going to join the extraction team." That's for the
52:31
audience. Like, we don't know that they're going to turn on Rambo yet. Okay. So, I think that's why that device
52:36
is put in there in that in that scene. Does that make sense? Yeah. No, it does. I mean, I I might be nitpicking or
52:43
looking too much into it. I just know the original mission was if PS were there, Trowman was going to lead the
52:49
team to get the PS, but now Rambo is lost. We don't know if he's dead or alive. We'll go to the extraction point
52:56
and to get Rambo. I've asked uh the group if they have any questions for
53:02
you. We'll just give them a chance to write any. They may or may not, but we have a few people here that might have
53:07
questions for you. A lot of these listeners in Discord have listened to you on my other shows, so that they've
53:13
heard pretty much everything. So Tim did ask, well, he said first, uh Tim, he is the host, one of the hosts of the Round
53:20
14 podcast, which is a part of of our last the Action Heroes podcast network. Uh great guy, fellow Canadian. He wants
53:27
to know what other projects are you bringing out soon. Now, we did talk about the beginning of the show, Tim, cuz he wasn't here for that, but you can
53:33
go ahead and replplug the uh James Ro project. Okay. And hey Tim, how you doing? I I remember you Tim from
53:40
Instagram and whatnot. I've got my feature film Bloodstreams coming out next year that I shot last year. And
53:47
then recently my friend James Rolf and I of Cinemassacre, you know, the angry
53:52
video game nerd. Um we went and did a Rocky 4 location hunt, which is really
53:59
epic. And it should be coming out on James' channel um pretty soon. And then I'm also editing a little another little
54:07
secret type little sly project with John Herzfeld again. So yeah, I got things
54:14
happening. That's a I can't believe you te So you tease that. Just reiterate what you just said like the James H. Now
54:21
don't say what it is, but explain who who John Herzfeld is to Sly maybe and so
54:27
people can understand how big of thing that you're doing, what you're editing. Not what you're editing, but why that's a big deal. Like who is John Herzfeld to
54:33
Sly? Well, John is is Sly's best friend of the last 50 years and he directed the
54:38
making of Rocky Versus Trogo documentary that I edited. I can't say much more,
54:44
but you know, I'm working on another little small little project with John that involves he and Sly. And then uh
54:51
yeah, I mean, I just I got a few things going on right now. There's actually quite a bit going on, but I would say
54:58
that's actually currently what I'm working on at this very moment. Well, all I can say is both as your friend and
55:04
as a fan of you, I'm just going to ask you again. I hope you come on my show to promote those projects when they're out
55:11
as you've done in the past with the other projects. Yeah. Yeah. I'll do do whatever do whatever I can. Obviously,
55:16
um there's so many things I got happening. I just can't even think right now. There's there's kind of a lot on my
55:23
plate, but I'll come back anytime. You know that. Well, to quote Rocky to Adrian, Rocky, too. Uh, you ain't never
55:28
getting rid of me. I won't leave hair in the sink. Well, you can leave hair in my sink anytime.
55:35
All right, so Tim goes, "Wicked awesome. Can't wait, Derek. Thanks." Donald asked a question. He says, "In the Rocky
55:40
versus Drago documentary, Sly said he wanted to cut several things that were still in the final Rocky Ford director's
55:46
cut. How much documentary footage exists of Sly either getting frustrated or remembering why he put certain things in
55:52
there in the first place? There's a lot of footage that didn't make it into that documentary. And there's a lot of
55:58
footage that didn't make it into the director's cut of Rocky 4. You probably
56:04
can't reveal anything. I bet. No, I I shouldn't. But let's just say uh you know the line that Rutker Howard says at
56:10
the end of Bladeunner, I've seen things or whatever that speech is. I'll just do
56:16
that. I've seen things you people won't believe. And I have. And uh it's fun.
56:22
It's fun knowing. It's like the cat that swallowed the canary. I just know things and I've seen things, but I can't talk
56:28
about it. It's fun. There's a lot There's a lot that didn't make it in. I
56:33
have a I have a question for you. This is a Ryan question. Sly has publicly This is public. So, he has publicly I
56:40
might have two questions for you, but this is public. He has publicly acknowledged that he would like to do a
56:47
Rocky 5 edit. Now, of course, you're a big John G fan. We know that John G and
56:53
Sly had struggles with the Rocky 5 cut on set and with the editing and the final cut, yada yada yada. We also know
56:59
that, of course, John G. Alison has passed away, but MGM, I assume, would own the rights to that film. All these
57:06
things are together, but Sly has publicly announced on Instagram that that is something that he would, at least he would not be opposed to doing.
57:12
It's the first time I've ever seen them publicly acknowledge a re-edit, a recut of that film is not out of the question.
57:18
What are your thoughts on that? Well, first of all, I mean, uh, a few things that I think that deserves it. Number
57:24
one, you know, again, I've seen the, as some of you have, I've seen the quote unquote director's rough cut, the work
57:32
print, they call it, the work print workint, which was great. And also I know that John there were decisions made
57:39
on Rocky 5. Not just we all know the story how the script change and the studio came in said Rocky doesn't die
57:44
and all stuff but in the actual edit itself John there were things that the
57:49
studio did that John wasn't happy with. I won't say what but we ran it in his
57:54
house and he he showed me and he wasn't happy with some of the editing. It was out of his control. So, we all know
58:02
Rocky 5 deserves better, and we know that the footage is out there to make it better. Would it happen? I don't know.
58:09
It was John's film, not Slies. Don't know if that has anything to do with it contractually. I don't know if the
58:15
unions have anything to do with it. I don't know who should recut it now that
58:21
Jon has passed. Sly. He should do exactly what he did with Rocky Ford. Hands down. Uh, it deserves it. I hope
58:29
that Sly gets a chance to do it. It it should be done. So that that's my thoughts on uh on Rocky 5 hopefully
58:37
getting a recut one day. Okay. So the one question from GE on our Discord. They said this question I've had to
58:42
basically where is this threehour first blood film? Where is it and why did Sly
58:48
what's your understanding of why Sly hated it so much? What was it about that cut that he hated so much? I don't know
58:55
the answer to that. And we're talking about First Blood, the the original First Blood. Remember he apparently he
59:00
now he publicly said like there was a three-hour cut. I wanted to destroy the film. I thought it was going to destroy my career and and everyone who watches
59:07
First Blood were like, "What? How could more of this film be a bad thing?" I know obviously there's a gluttony to
59:12
some degree, but I just can't imagine what this cut would have been that Sly would have been distraught over. Yeah,
59:19
I'm really not sure. I don't And again, I don't want to speak for him. All all I
59:24
can say is is my neat little first blood story that you know about. Um I could
59:30
just tell that and maybe this could lead some insight. I don't know. For those of you who have heard these stories before,
59:35
I apologize. I don't think anyone gets sick of it. Don't don't worry about that. One day I was at Slies and he
59:42
turned on the TV and on the AMC channel, First Blood was on the the tail end of
59:48
it. We watched uh the ending of First Blood. He just started telling me all sorts of stories and about Ted Cotch,
59:54
the director. He kind of confirmed some questions I had and like we he just kind of talked about the chaos of that
1:00:02
production and and that ending and everything. And uh again, I don't want to speak out of turn, but I got pretty
1:00:10
good insight into what it was like uh that working relationship, what it was
1:00:15
like on that set, especially during the ending. So, I'm assuming this is all
1:00:21
assumption. This is not anything I was told, but I'm assuming there were just
1:00:26
things in there that maybe creatively there were just people butting heads. I
1:00:32
don't know. But what they did come up with obviously is a perfect film. But
1:00:38
you also have to know, and Sly knows this as a director and an editor, the audience won't miss what they never knew
1:00:46
existed in the first place. That's the key to editing, to editing anything. When I edit, that's the number one thing
1:00:52
that I have. So, he probably knew there was cuz too much can be actually bad.
1:00:59
But 40 years on, people want to see it. We'll see. But but I don't I Yeah,
1:01:05
you're right about the editing. The little editing I do just for my podcast. Of course, I I'll edit out jokes that didn't quite work or a topic that goes
1:01:13
off too long and then I edit that out. No one will know that was gone. And even I forget that what I edited. I'll
1:01:18
forget. I'll go back and listen to the episode and I'll forget what I originally had said or whatever. So, people are saying, "Thank you for sharing that." Dave is asking you,
1:01:25
Derek, are you hot now because I made you turn off the AC. Are you okay? They wanted to make sure you're okay. Thank
1:01:30
you for your for your concern. I'm a little ripe. Well, it's cool. I'm I'm so
1:01:35
in tune with with you guys that I'm like now of course you were aware this is again just Ryan and you're not going to
1:01:41
speak for Sly but you are a fan of his and you were following him on Instagram and what have you. So again Sly made
1:01:47
this public but feel free to share what you want or don't want to share regarding this but when this comes out it might be old news by then. But Sly of
1:01:54
course recently shared his vitil regarding Irwin Winkler and the Rocky uh
1:01:59
franchise and the ownership rights and what have you. It is a side of Sly that I have never seen before. I knew that
1:02:06
was in him because he's human and he's allowed to be human. He's allowed to have emotions. He's allowed to be upset and he's all these things that you and I
1:02:12
get to do in a non-public form, he did in a public form. So, he was able to express his frustrations, his anger, and
1:02:18
his passion towards some individuals and their family. But, of course, those have since been taken down, uh, which we can
1:02:25
speculate all day as to why they were taken down. But what's your thoughts on the Irwin Winkler situation owning the
1:02:32
rights of Rocky and Sly's frustration on him not owning those rights? Well, first of all, like definitely I'm not going to
1:02:38
say anything publicly that I know or that I've heard or that I've been told or by anybody, but I just know that it's
1:02:47
nasty. I don't think it's right necessarily. Um, what Sylvester Stallone
1:02:53
doesn't have enough of the iconic
1:02:59
franchise that he created. I do think that that's a shame. That's awful. But I
1:03:05
also don't want to comment on too much more of it because I don't I don't know
1:03:10
enough. I just know what I've been told and what I've been to. But I do think
1:03:16
it's a shame as far as the the public lashing that he gave out. I mean, hey,
1:03:21
he's he's human. He's super human, right? He's Sylvester Stone, but he's
1:03:27
human. And man, you know, he's getting on up there and he's probably just like, "Hey, I'm I'm tired of this. Like, this
1:03:35
is who cares about whatever." And and I don't know, but you know, Sly's a good
1:03:41
man. He's a good man. And I don't know. He is a good man. I think everyone that's a Sly fan is on the slide team.
1:03:47
Like this is frustrating to see somebody else owning the like I get and I've had I saw some of the comments even some of
1:03:52
the comments responded to me when I commented on his Instagram. People were like, "Oh, so you think you know he could he like I hate the business side
1:03:59
of it." That's the part I don't like. I I understand that somebody might legally own something, but that doesn't make it
1:04:04
right is all I'm saying. You can legally own a slave. It doesn't make it right. Okay. I understand that owning the Rocky
1:04:10
character might be legally contractly. It sucks for Sly, but that still doesn't make it morally right. It sucks that he
1:04:17
doesn't have the control that he It's just weird to me that you can create something and not own it. That's a weird
1:04:22
concept for me and that's my naivity maybe, but I get the frustration and it is a business and that's what a lot of
1:04:28
the fans I try to protect the fans from giving too much of a business input, but
1:04:35
I will say this, it is show business. It's not show art. Yeah, I know. Yeah. Rocking is just a movie. Rambo First
1:04:42
Blood 2, First Blood Part Two is just a movie, but they've
1:04:48
transcended cinema and they're in our hearts and in our minds. So, they do mean more than just business. It is a
1:04:56
shame. And uh I hope something gets worked out. I really do because yes, it's a business, but at the end of the
1:05:02
day, it's more than that. Rocky's a phenomenon. I hope Sly gets what he's
1:05:07
due. Absolutely. Agreed. Who drew the painting of Irwin Winkler with the snake
1:05:12
tongue or the lizard tongue? Who who drew that artwork? I have no idea. Okay. I don't know. It's just weird that I
1:05:18
don't know who gave it to Sly or where he got that from or he's had it for years or at first I thought he painted it and I reread it. He didn't paint it.
1:05:26
Somebody else painted it, I think. Yeah. Yeah. I really don't know. Okay. I I mean, we could talk forever. You and I
1:05:31
do talk forever. I I appreciate again your friendship, your kindness, your time with me on these shows. You've been
1:05:37
an amazing guest throughout the years. More to come. I don't think this will be I don't dare say when will your last
1:05:43
visit be on the show. Hopefully never. One last question before you go. Tim wants to know when will we get the Derek
1:05:49
Wayne Johnson action figure? When are we getting that one? Uh uh if that's in reference to the John
1:05:57
Ason action figure that I had mentioned. Hey. Hey. I would love to have a Derek
1:06:03
Wayne Johnson action figure next to the John Abton one on my shelf. I think
1:06:08
Frank Salone has one. Like, come on. Let's be serious here. If Frank has one, you should have one. I've got Frank's as well. He signed it. And this funny funny
1:06:15
little story. Frank gifted me his his action figure and he signed it and I couldn't make out what he wrote. So,
1:06:21
like a week later, I went took it back to him. He's like, "Hey, I don't really know what this says." He goes, "Oh, I don't either." So, he just flipped it
1:06:27
over and he signed it again. So there's like two different signatures on that. Hey Tim, I would love to have an action
1:06:34
figure. If you can make that happen with those guys that did the one of John Aton's, more power to you. I'd
1:06:40
appreciate it. You know why you had to take action figure back to uh Frank? You
1:06:45
should have sang the song. Take it back. Take it back. You had to give it
1:06:51
to him. You should have sang that to him. I need to take it back. Um okay, I got a little too. That's terrible. One
1:06:57
last thing before people are going to keep typing. We're g have to end this. So, I just want to say that the action figure should be called Derek the Wayne
1:07:04
Johnson. That's all there. You guys are making me blush over here. Uh, yeah, it
1:07:10
should. I It should I want to see that happen. Let's make it happen. Okay, guys. Well, everyone, thank you so much
1:07:15
for joining us on Discord. If you made it all the way through, check out all the other shows in the last of the Action Heroes Podcast Network. Check out
1:07:21
my show, of course, One More Round, The Rocky Series Podcast. It's great having you on, Derek. We'll talk again. All
1:07:27
right. All right, everyone. Thank you so much. We'll talk to you later. Thank you, Ryan. Thank you, everyone.
1:07:37
[Music]