Monetizing Passion: Can You Offer Quality Without ASHA?

In this episode of the Fix SLP podcast, host Dr. Jeanette Benigas, SLP dives into an insightful conversation with Lindsey Hokel, MS/SLP from Rock the R Speech. They discuss the complexities of navigating professional development in the field of Speech-Language Pathology, focusing on the challenges of providing quality continuing education while avoiding the expensive process of becoming an ASHA-approved CEU provider. Lindsey shares her decision to offer Professional Development Hours (PDHs) instead of ASHA-approved CEUs and the impact this has had on her business. The episode also covers the growing grassroots movement of Fix SLP, advocating for autonomy and transparency within the profession, and provides information on state CEU requirements and the efforts to improve state requirements to allow for any profession-related PDHs. If you're an SLP seeking alternative PDH opportunities or interested in changing the field for the better, this episode is packed with valuable information and inspiration. Tune in to learn more about one of Fix SLP’s missions, Lindsey’s innovative work with Rock the R, and how you can get involved in the movement for change.

Want to earn some PDHs or CEUs with a discount? Find our most up-to-date promo codes and discounts here.

Want to lead or join your state team? Email your name and state to [e-mail].
Become a sustaining partner to support our work.
Follow us on Instagram.
Find all our information at fixslp.com and sign up for our email list to be alerted to new episodes and content.
Email us at [e-mail].
Leave a message on our Minivan Meltdown line!

★ Support this podcast ★

Creators and Guests

Host

Jeanette Benigas, PhD/SLP

Host of Fix SLP

What is Fix SLP: Advocacy & Accountability in Speech-Language Pathology?

Fix SLP is an SLP Podcast by Dr. Jeanette Benigas about advocacy, autonomy, and reform in Speech-Language Pathology. This show exposes credentialing gatekeeping, dismantles CCC requirements, and helps SLPs advocate for change. Each episode equips SLPs with tools to reclaim their profession. Subscribe now and join the movement transforming speech-language pathology. Follow @fix.slp on Instagram and TikTok. Visit fixslp.com.

Jeanette Benigas 0:00
Okay, Lindsay, we just turned record back on. I hope everybody's still listening, because as business owners, we were just having a great discussion, because we do need to monetize fix SLP in some way this year so we can keep up this pace. Because we really do spend all of our time volunteering for this in the background. And she suggested an affiliate code for her platform, where both you guys could get a discount and then a small percentage could also come to us. So Well, actually it was just, how about an affiliate code? And because I love you guys, I'm like, Well, how about you give them a discount to take part of what you offered me and give it to them. So I'm going to she's going to share with me, and then I'm going to share with you. So if people want to sign up for one of your courses, what code can they use?

Lindsey Hokel 0:48
So I will make sure that the code is fix SLP, all lowercase one, no spaces or anything, perfect when I figure out how to do it, because I've never, never done affiliates before, but I would love to do that for you. So we're trails. Yeah, we're blazing new trails. And I because, yeah, you gotta, you gotta figure out a way to monetize. And I know you don't want SLPs to be the ones paying for the service. And

Jeanette Benigas 1:16
that's amazing

Lindsey Hokel 1:17
tricky place to be so happy to do it

Jeanette Benigas 1:19
Yep. So once all of these numbers get figured out and we know what we're doing, certainly we will be collaborating and posting that all over the place. So stay tuned. But code fix SLP and thank you for your generosity. That's great idea. Amazing. You know that in a minute, when I have time, I'm now going to message every business owner,

Lindsey Hokel 1:41
absolutely

Jeanette Benigas 1:41
in the SLP, spacing, hey

Lindsey Hokel 1:43
it helps you. It helps me, it helps the SLPs, wanting to get these professionals,

Jeanette Benigas 1:48
yes, okay, perfect. All right. Lindsay, everybody, look for our post. We'll have something fix. SLP

Lindsey Hokel 1:57
yes. Thank you.

Jeanette Benigas 1:58
Hey, fixers, I'm Dr Jeanette benigas, the owner of fix SLP, a grassroots advocacy firm here to challenge the status quo in speech language pathology by driving real change from insurance regulations to removing barriers that prevent full autonomy like the CCC, this podcast is your space to learn, engage and take action in the field of Speech, Language Pathology. We don't wait for change. We make it so let's fix SLP.

Hey everybody, it's Jeanette. I am here today without Preston. He is off playing pool or something fun with his beautiful new bride. And this was a very, last minute scheduled recording, as in, like two hours ago, we were like, if this is happening, it's happening tonight. So I have Lindsay hopeful with me from rock VR, and we'll get with her in a minute. But before we start, I'm going to read a review. This is from scooty 292 and that person says, How could an SLP not listen to this cast with a little shrug emoji, such intelligent and insightful conversation for truly fixing the SLP profession. Thank you. Fix SLP team for providing this crucial info for helping us fixers make SLP more autonomous. Thank you. And since Preston's not here, this is really his thing, we need you guys to call in with your minivan meltdown, which is a sad story, a frustration with the field, a story with something that's gone on in your past. Anything you want to share, you have 90 seconds. You can call in twice. We'll we'll play up to two of them in a row. The phone number for that is, I believe, linked to the show description. I've already closed it, so I'm almost positive I link that up every single week in the description. Please call in. That's Preston's baby. He wants to hear from you. He wants to be prepared. So we're not doing that this week, since he's not here. So we'll just jump right in with Lindsay. She's here as part of our CEU weeks. And I don't know Lindsay, I'm trying to diversify. We don't need all med SLP professionals, because we have a huge pediatric following, as we saw back in May when you all posted your end of year school pictures and then stopped listening. So now that you're all back in school, we have Lindsay here to talk to all of us, really, you did. She were going to be talking about CEUs, but she offers CEUs, so we have done very little chatter, and she put her hands up because she doesn't, you don't offer Asha approved CEUs, you offer pdhs, right? Yeah, that's see I gotta get

Lindsey Hokel 5:16
and I try. And I have to be so careful and make sure that anytime I advertise, anytime I talk about it, I make sure I never use the word,

Jeanette Benigas 5:24
yeah, that's a good clarification. So she and I are going to get to know each other a little bit as we go this because I I'm I worked in the schools for two years, and I did pediatric private practice for one year, and I can honestly admit I've only ever rocked 1r and I needed you about 15 to 18 years ago, like those three years when I was with kids, it was 1r and it was a mistake, and I don't know how I did it, but I will never forget the moment we fixed that R, and that's that was it for me I retired from It's a good feeling. Yeah, yeah. So why don't? Why don't you start by telling us who you are, where people can find you, what you do, tell us about all of those good things. Make sure you tell us where people can find you. And then we'll jump into the PDH conversation.

Lindsey Hokel 6:14
Yeah, sure. I'm Lindsay hokel. I am it located in about Fort Worth Texas Keller, for anyone who is from Texas and wants to know, but, yeah, I'm a pediatric SLP, I've been in the private practice setting for over eight years, and for the last couple of years I've had my own practice, and I've narrowed it down to where I only work on the R sound, so it's not a full Time caseload, because I spend a lot of time doing things for what used to be called Speechy things, but now I have rebranded to rock the R, because we're so much more focused and zeroed in on the things that we offer, and I'm really trying to make it more of a collaboration, and not just Me. So with rock the R we offer professional development. We considered offering CEUs, but we'll get to that. But we offer professional development. We've got a YouTube channel. We're on Instagram and Tiktok and all those things. And the handles now that you can find us at our rock the R speech. So we're rock the R speech, pretty much everywhere. I think on Facebook, I had to make it rock the R speech official, but everywhere else, rock the R speech. And our URL as of today is rock the R speech.com so come check us out and see We've got lots of freebies and resources and all kinds of stuff. And some of our older stuff is a little bit more diverse. We've got, you know, like older like language resources and stuff like that. But, um, that's from a couple years ago. So now anything new that comes out is all about our so you keep saying we and us. So I do have a team. I do have a team. They're wonderful. I don't utilize them the way I want to. So my daughter just started preschool, so I feel like I'm kind of playing catch up from her being home with me for six months. I do have a team, and I want to use them better and grow. So I say we, and I mean it, but you know, someday I have, I have lots of dreams and big ideas,

Jeanette Benigas 8:26
all right, so you have an amazing team to support you. You're growing. You have a cute little office. You guys, I don't show video, but it's all like white, yellow and black, and I'm sitting in my dining room with nothing behind me, but I need to get something for the wall behind me, at least, right? Yeah, I get, like, print out a poster with the six SLP logo. Yeah, I'm sure you're dining room thrilled to I am not great with, like, hanging any photo. We get photos all the time. I put none of them up. We have one photo hanging in our house, which you can't see, but it's over our buffet, and it was my son's newborn photo, and my daughter, who was 24 months, no, 26 months, I think, and now they're six and eight. So that was the last photo I hung.

Lindsey Hokel 9:17
so funny

Jeanette Benigas 9:18
So I'm sure what he wants behind me in this dining room is fixed. SLP, that's what you're doing. And how long have you been in practice? Total like, since you graduated grad school? I graduated December, 2015, so Okay, so that's why you weren't around in the summer of 2006 and then 2007 and 2008 while I was trying to fix the R, significantly older than you. You were, like, born that year. Okay, got it cool, all right. So how did you decide to start offering... Well, let me back up. So part of this week, and I'm hoping we have content, but I've been traveling offering my own actual CEUs because my my colleague said we had to, I lost the fight, and so I've lost track of what our content coordinator Elizabeth has prepared for this week and then next week, when you're airing but hopefully we're teaching you about the difference between PDH and CEUs. And so just in case you haven't figured it out yet, or perhaps we haven't posted it, PDH stands for professional development hour, and that is really any education related to what you are doing as a professional in some states, I think I said this on the last podcast, you can even count your first aid classes as PDH. That's not in every state, so you always need to check your state regulations continue and really continuing education hours are also pdhs, but we do get confused in our field, because then we have Asha approved continuing education units, and we talk extensively about that with Meredith Harold in Our last episode, so you can go back and listen to that. But there is a whole process, and it's, it's not well vetted. We discuss all of that, and it is very expensive. So for someone like Lindsay or myself that doesn't have volume, it really, really increases the price of what we need to charge to walk away with any money at all, because most of us are not running charities, and we do need to be paid for our time, just like everyone else does. And so in order to compensate for that cost, we have to charge more. Then there is an ASHA CEU, which is literally the name that they give the courses that get put on the ASHA CEU tracker. So if you have taken an ASHA approved CEU, and you report it to their tracker. It is now called an ASHA CDU. It is a made up name no one requires that ever anywhere, they are only tracked to earn, not win. Earn, because everybody gets it if you hit the number to earn the ASHA ace Award, which means you've earned 70 Asha CEUs in a cycle. It doesn't do anything for you. It is literally a made up piece of paper that you then have to pay for if you would like to receive it and hang it on your wall. So bear this company, the informed SLP does offer Asha approved CEUs, and we had her on last week. So Lindsay is here to talk to us about the complicating, no, the complicated decision or hard decision of having to decide to not do that and still find success in a business where people will still purchase a course, and hopefully encourage some of you, because I asked this in a Facebook forum for business owners, how many of you offer professional development hours and not Asha CEUs and still are able to make money. So that's the goal, is that we can offer high quality courses without having to spend the extra money. And I yeah, I just wanted to hear from someone from a different background, so pediatrics here that I don't know that does this, so we can learn more about it. So I'll just kind of give you the floor, and you can wind your way to that answer and -

Lindsey Hokel 14:01
I love this conversation, and it's actually something that I still struggle with, because I went through I have so many feelings about this. Whenever I decided to start offering professional development, I was like, okay, yeah, let's go for it. Let's become a CEU provider, and let's go big or go home. And I actually went through and completed, I didn't submit, but I completed the ridiculous application to become an ASHA CEU provider. I like. I went through that whole thing and,

Jeanette Benigas 14:40
wait, tell us about it. How long did it take you? What was involved?

Lindsey Hokel 14:45
Oh, it's, this was, like, a year ago. Um, a lot of it was about the way I would have to advertise, the way I would have to, like, specific. I remember they they needed to see like a mock up of a graphic that I would use for advertising. They wanted to see the way that I would write the description and explain what was in the course and the course objectives, and all of that, that kind of thing, basically to see, like how it would be portrayed. I guess?

Jeanette Benigas 15:29
Promoted?

Lindsey Hokel 15:29
Marketed? Promoted. That's it promoted.

Jeanette Benigas 15:32
How much of it was about the quality that you would be offering?

Lindsey Hokel 15:37
Jeanette, I'm so glad you asked. I don't remember anything about the quality? I don't remember anything about, like, a minimum requirement for how many citations you would have, or, like, the way that you would reference incorporate evidence. None of it was nothing that would make it any more. Nothing guarantees quality. Nothing about that.

Jeanette Benigas 16:03
Yeah, so they're not, they're not, and we talked about this with Meredith, they're not looking at that. And they have she said this, and if they're not doing it yet, I'm almost positive they are, because as a medbridge author, I think they told me they were moving in that direction at this point or coming soon. You have to provide five evidence based articles that you would incorporate into the talk, okay, but that's it. I mean, you're just listing them, and that's right, and so I'm sure they're not going through and, like, actually tracking it, yeah, Meredith said that would maybe make it marginally better than someone who isn't Asha approved, but anyone could be doing that right. Or I even gave an example where maybe I did I did that, and a year and a half later, by the time my course was done, I could even remember what I wrote? Okay, so there was no quality control checking. It was about marketing, about promotion, probably about reporting how you were going to report and learn it.

Lindsey Hokel 17:11
Yes, and that's the thing like. So just to submit this application, maybe I'll pull up the pricing, but it's like over $1,000 to become a CEU provider and going up, yeah, content yet, it's going up quite a bit. It's going up soon, and even if I weren't going to become my own CEU now, I'm trying to remember, I think you have to... I don't remember if you have to pay every time you register like, because you have to submit the course to Asha.

Jeanette Benigas 17:49
Not I believe once you're a provider, you're not doing that.

Lindsey Hokel 17:53
Okay, so you don't have to pay like for per offering.

Jeanette Benigas 17:56
It's, it's okay when you are going through another company. So right, for example, the course that I just got back from hosting, we reported through Tim's Medical so we had to pay them $400 for them to do that. If we were to do another course, it would be another 400 and I also did something similar with the last university that I was at. We hosted AC Goldberg and awesome. Yeah, he supported it. Me too. He's amazing. Yeah, if anyone doesn't know who he is, he's his handle is @transplaining, and also @creditsinstitute. So we recorded his talk, and we had reported it through our state association in the same manner, and then we wanted to continue to offer the course again, but asynchronous, through the recorded lecture on his site. And if we were going to do that, we would have had to resubmit a whole new course, even though it was the same course, because we weren't doing it live and synchronous, it was going to be recorded in asynchronous. Nothing was going to change, yes. So I think that goes away once you become a provider.

Lindsey Hokel 18:09
Okay, I think that sounds familiar. I just remember feeling very overwhelmed, and it was a very scary commitment as a small business to owner, to pay that much money and then it's to renew you. I don't think it's quite as much as the first time, but it's a lot.

Jeanette Benigas 19:29
I think it's the same amount. I think right now it's $1,000 a year. And then Meredith said there were some other things that had to go with it. So she said, right now it's about 1500 a year.

Lindsey Hokel 19:40
Okay, so right now my courses for one hour. I charge, I have a $39 course. It's a one hour professional development. So I would need 25 people just to make up for being a provider, and that's at the low end, assuming it's $1,000 a year. And that's not including the cost of actually having the website platform where I can host these videos, because that's a... and i use one of the cheaper ones, and it's several $100 a year. So it's just, you know, I mean... I'm a for profit business, so I'm not trying to cry a river by any means, but it is. It's a lot to consider whenever you're trying to figure out a business model, and whenever you're thinking about SLPs, who are just trying to maintain their license, you know. So I ended up not submitting the application and deciding to go through with offering professional development hours. And so far, it seems to have been it seems to be fine. I'm still getting people who want to think they want the information, and for a lot of states, professional development hours are fine, and I do offer certificates, which is why I have this fancy platform where I people have to register to watch it, so that way it can auto generate a certificate for them. But in order for it to be an official Asha CEU, it was just going to cost so much money. And on top of that, the effort of reporting it to Asha so it can be on the registry, that was going to cost me money too, because that's hours and hours of work andoverwhelming to say the least.

Jeanette Benigas 21:38
Yeah, absolutely. I that's just something that we're trying to drive home this week is we have someone like you with a really, really refined skill that people need, and, just because you're not you didn't put in that application, doesn't mean the quality of your content is any less. In fact, it might be a little better. You might be advertising better. You might be doing things better because you haven't lost your economy. Asha was asking you to submit how you're going to advertise, and was telling you how to write things up and what if that's not your style? What if what they want is not your personal brand or style, you're completely handing away your autonomy to a private organization that is monetizing off of your brand and off of your courses in a way that maybe brings you more business, but maybe it doesn't, and especially if we continue to talk about this in the field, hopefully we're moving towards it doesn't right like hopefully you'll be making just as much whether you're Asha approved or not. Do you feel like you've lost business by not being an ASHA approved provider?

Lindsey Hokel 22:59
I don't think I have lost business. I... I think if I were offering more than one hour courses that I would have to probably go through like I have thought about that because I

Jeanette Benigas 23:22
I just made a face.

Lindsey Hokel 23:23
Yeah, I thought it was funny, like, but I have thought about that if I had, like, a four hour course that I wanted to do, that's a little bit harder for me to not want to offer CEUs, because there are some states who require it to be, like in Texas, my understanding is now, please y'all Google this.

Jeanette Benigas 23:42
Hold on. Listen. I know you're not keeping up fully with fix SLP. They don't need to Google. They can go to fixslp.com. Under either three quarters of the way down the page. We have a picture you can click or under Resources for SLPs, we have a link that says CEU requirements by state, and it takes you to a spreadsheet that has been researched by us, also crowdsourced and confirmed it is a living, breathing document. So if you are on there, looking at your state and something has changed, or we have something wrong, please, please tell us. But they can just go there and we and then we also link up the regulations, because we want always people to do the research for themselves. Don't just take what we say as gold, but we've pulled it from your state for you. Put it all in one place, and that's where you can see it. So I have Texas pulled up. Why don't you tell me what your understanding of Texas is.

Lindsey Hokel 24:41
You know what? I'm going to make sure that I share this because, and this is we earlier we were talking about with advertising and things you you have to tell people again and again and again, because I have seen this before and I already forgot. I'm glad you brought it up again.

Jeanette Benigas 24:59
I will tell you. What, what Texas says? Because I have it pulled up. Yeah, I have it. Your CEOs have to be approved by ASHA or your state. Yep, we need to fix that guys

Lindsey Hokel 25:09
Exactly.

Jeanette Benigas 25:09
No, we. I actually have enough people to launch a Texas team. I'm ready. I have fixers ready to go. I do not have the leadership to launch another team. So if you are driven and you want to make change and you are here for it, please let me know, and we will help you launch your team in your state, and we will guide you from behind the scenes. But our team cannot do all of it because we are all volunteers and lacking sleep, but I'm ready. Texas was Texas is like queued up Texas, and I think New Jersey queued up ready to go. We were going to launch them, and then we crashed. We just can't do anymore. So Texas, let's get that changed. Let's make it like Ohio, where it's any PDH.

Lindsey Hokel 25:53
I love that.

Jeanette Benigas 25:55
So you guys, we had to pause for a minute because, you know, maybe Lindsay might lead a Texas team, but if you're interested, she could at least help, right? Email team at fix slp.com, if you're in Texas, we need to get you some autonomy. We're ready to go. We've got names on the list. We need the people get with me. I'll get with Lindsay. We'll see. We'll see what happens next. That was not what this podcast was about, but it's important, and so I'm glad it came up, because, yeah, Texas is generally, I haven't, I mean, they have some things, but, man, that's a tough that's a tough thing. That's just that's very limiting for you guys. And that's what we were just talking about while it was paused. Is the example I brought up since you were a pediatric person is the tongue tie. We could keep inbreeding that information right, teaching each other the same thing we know over and over. Or we could be going to medical conferences or medical meetings or continuing educations offered for dentists or taught by dentists, where we could be learning information from other fields to bring back to our field and make us better in our practice, and that is the primary reason why we shouldn't have these restrictions. Because, number one, the words autonomy, we're going to be talking about that all year, it takes away our autonomy, and, number two, it limits our room for growth, because we all only have so much money and we all only have so much time. And so if you're limited to CEUs approved by ASHA or the Texas State Association, you're limiting all of those other opportunities because you only have enough, so much money and so much time, so you're gonna go with whatever's been approved instead of going to the thing that you could really benefit from or that you could really use to grow your own personal practice and be practicing at the top of your license.

Lindsey Hokel 27:54
Yes.

Jeanette Benigas 27:55
And so to that Yeah

Lindsey Hokel 27:58
to that point, I know I have witnessed, I guess, so many SLPs who maybe go to, like, the Texas State Conference and just try to knock out all their CEUs in that one weekend or or their, yeah, whatever, because they know it'll be accepted by the Texas license. So, right, the goal isn't to, I mean, of course, they're going to pick whatever sessions they think might be best, or whatever fix in their fits in their schedule, but the emphasis is on knocking out the requirements, not on going out and seeking the absolute best information that you can find for whatever area you want support in. And so I couldn't agree with you more that it's just a big old bummer that states, including my own, have this requirement that really doesn't indicate that we're getting the best continuing education that we can it just means that it has gone through the very expensive process of getting a name brand label put on it so that way it can be reported. And I'm here to tell you... no, even I stopped paying for the asho CEU registry a couple years ago, it has been so easy to track my hours

Jeanette Benigas 29:14
which I don't know if this is going to show up at the end of your podcast, this podcast episode or not, so I might cut some of this. That's a pause in between what I say, speech therapy, wait, formerly, speechtherapypd.com, now speechtherapypd has come out with a free CEU tracker, similar to that of Asha, where you can print a transcript, where it will track it for you. It even I have already recorded with her. It even keeps copies of the certificates. So if your computer crashes, it is no backed up, it's or you haven't saved them for yourself. You do have to upload them, because that's where the expense is with reporting to Asha. They're never going to do that, or it's just going to be that kind of money again. But you do have to upload your certificates, but it will save them for life. It is free to all SLPs. You do not have to be a subscriber to speech therapy. PD, so if you Lindsay don't subscribe to it, that's fine. If you don't take their CEUs, you can still go create an account and use their free tracker. And if you get audited, you can generate a report. Since the last recording I did with Meredith, I had to report ces CEUs to Pennsylvania because I let my license lapse. And I thought I better, I better just renew. Well, they made me prove everything. So I went to Asha to print my tracker, because I my employer did pay for it for me for this last year. So there was no way to print just these last two years that I needed, I had to send myself an email of an unofficial transcript which had has had CEUs reported to it off and on since 2016, So then I had to go through and eliminate all of the pages that I didn't need to send them to get down to exactly what I needed, and I still don't know if they're taking that. My application is still pending, so they might not even take it. So speech therapy. PD is going to do it for you for free. Amazing, amazing. Yeah, that's awesome. I mean, I still go back and forth on whether I want to become a CE Well, the answer is no, I don't want to become a CEU provider. I go back and forth on whether it's necessary. Let's change the ribbons. You don't want to become an ASHA approved CEU provider, because in every other profession, they take CEUs, not pdhs. So CEUs exist everywhere. Okay? In every profession, they're called CEOs, sometimes they're called pdhs, but they're, they're the same thing. I think it's, it is safe to kind of differentiate those in our space, because you don't want people thinking that they are getting Asha right. CEUs, there is a difference because our profession, ASHA has done such a good job in our profession about incorporating themselves into the culture and the language everywhere that you hear CEUs and you automatically just assume it's Asha approved. And so we have to start moving towards changing that culture and changing the verbiage and being in line with our colleagues in physical therapy and occupational therapy. I got off the phone with a physical therapist at from a big hospital system in Michigan who's looking at removing their C's as a result of the work our team has done there, and we had a really, really, really productive conversation about how all of this compares to physical therapy. And I did tell the team after I said, I find that physical therapists are some of the easiest directors of rehabs and bosses and and professionals to work with when it comes to undoing some of this, Asha, CCC, CEU stuff, because they don't get it. They don't as soon as you tell them what's going on in our field, they think that it is the dumbest thing, because they operate just fine. And I think we can all agree, in some aspects, are way more successful. Their billing codes get reimbursed more money. You know, they have time codes instead of blanket service codes, they've put their APTA has protected their codes so chiropractors can no longer use their codes for billing. Wouldn't we love to see that when it came to some of our... our areas of practice, those are podcasts for another day, but

Lindsey Hokel 34:01
my eyes will start twitching.

Jeanette Benigas 34:03
You start telling them these things, and they're like, What is going on in your field Exactly? So why? Why can't our profession reflect what other people are doing? If we want to play with the big dogs, if we want to be taken seriously, we need to start acting like them and selling our souls to Asha because they've put their label on it to make money, because that's what they're doing. They are selling us products in every single area. They have a monopoly. They accredit programs. They sell us a certificate that we all until a year ago, thought was a license that we had to have in the past. I don't think they'll do it anymore, but in the past, they have lobbied to make these things required, right? They they have had their talents in every state license that has been developed across this nation because they knew, "We can't stop this from happening". We need these states are going to have a state license because they are not Asha is not a regulatory body. This is how I explained it to the PT today, the CCC developed to to give consumers assurance that they were getting a trained SLP at a time where there wasn't a state license, but they don't have a any regular, any regulatory power. So if some if there was a bad actor, sure Asha could take away their CCC, but really they legal ramifications. There's nothing they could do. If you violate your state license, you can go to jail. They they have regulatory power, right? And so the license is much more protective for the consumer than the CCC.

Lindsey Hokel 35:49
right

Jeanette Benigas 35:49
And so

Lindsey Hokel 35:50
you get put and you get shamed in the back of the ASHA leader, right?

Jeanette Benigas 35:53
Yeah, whatever. But, but remember, none of us are reading those anymore. Our Alexa, on our team, uses it to line the bottom of her beehives, because she has, like, beehive boxes, that's what she puts to line the bottom. But anyway, so Asha knew that they weren't going to be able to stop that process, so instead, they volunteered their time to help all of these states develop their license and that is why you see the CCC replicated as the requirement for most of these state licenses, because Asha did that, they have ingrained themselves into every single part of this profession, including continuing educations. Why? Because they make money from it. And by the way, Asha didn't even require CEUs until the early 2000s. It has not even been 20 years that they have been doing this, and we were all just fine before they required it. So why now? Right? Why the difference between 2004 and 2024? Because there were no CEU requirements back then, and none of these states required Asha CEUs, because there was no such thing. They figured out that they could make another arm of their company and so they did. And so now we all have to pay them more money to get approved, to report, to track. We have to be critical thinkers about what's going on, you guys. We have to because Lindsay Hockel is sitting in front of me looking so cute with that office and so you know, her CEUs are good, right? Or her pdhs, we're gonna keep us up. Her pdhs are amazing, I'm sure. Because, I mean, rock the R? Come on, we all need it. No, no one's learning how to do that in grad school. So, but if you know, if you're in Texas, you're not getting credit.

Lindsey Hokel 37:54
I know that's the thing,

Jeanette Benigas 37:54
why?

Lindsey Hokel 37:56
Because

Jeanette Benigas 37:56
we need to start asking why.

Lindsey Hokel 37:58
Yeah, and that's, like, irritates me. I don't think it makes sense, and I think it certainly needs to change. Okay,

Jeanette Benigas 38:08
so Lindsey, as as I'm going on this rampage about Asha, I don't even know this information because you were an early adopter of fixed SLP, when I got on Instagram to message you, I was so embarrassed about, like, how far back we had messaged about a collaboration, and you never heard back. But I think I did tell you, maybe that was when my mom got sick. I think I can't remember, so a lot went to the wayside when that happened. But do you have your Cs?

Lindsey Hokel 38:39
I do.

Jeanette Benigas 38:40
Okay

Lindsey Hokel 38:41
yeah.

Jeanette Benigas 38:41
Why? Why have you kept them?

Lindsey Hokel 38:44
Because...

Jeanette Benigas 38:45
this isn't a challenge, because we're all about choice, so I want, I want to hear, why do you still have your Cs?

Lindsey Hokel 38:54
I......... don't have a great answer, other than I'm just not ready to not have them yet,

Jeanette Benigas 39:00
Okay, that's acceptable.

Lindsey Hokel 39:02
but I appreciate what fix slp is doing, and I like the informed consent and the I like the information for everyone to make their own choice so And what's funny is, whenever I actually got a message on Instagram from somebody, and it kind it kind of took me back. I feel like I'm very lucky with people being nice to me, because there are some really mean people out there.

Jeanette Benigas 39:29
Yes, there are.

Lindsey Hokel 39:30
This one came through and she was like, "You reshared a fixed SLP post, but you're still following Asha on Instagram," And she, like, wanted to corner me into explaining myself, or, like, wanted to pressure me into unfollowing Asha on Instagram or and, and I I just, I'm like, Whoa. That to me, this is not about a winch witch hunt. This isn't about right all. One or the other. I want to I think the information that you're sharing is very empowering, and I think that we should understand this about our licensing bodies, about our credentialing bodies, and about our profession. And I want SLPs to have this information what you decide to do from there. I don't have strong feelings about because everyone's a grown up, you know, so that's why I'm I hope, like, I would love for this to stay in the podcast, because what I don't want is for people to come to me and be like, Oh, so you went on the fixed SLP podcast, but you're doing this, this and this, you're going to the ASHA convention like, oh, hypocrite, how dare you? Like ,I..... I reserve the right to do both things. I think

Jeanette Benigas 40:55
absolutely

Lindsey Hokel 40:55
I think our at least in the United States, I feel like things are so black and white, like you're either with us or against us. And I just, I don't like that mentality. I want, I want to be able to take time and something I've learned as a business owner and as someone who has a platform and I have a couple 1000 eyes on me at any given time. It's hard to want to just, like, declare my opinion, because then, like, well, what if I change my mind, or what if I learn new information, and then people are gonna hold me to whatever I said six months ago, and I can't

Jeanette Benigas 41:32
right

Lindsey Hokel 41:33
change my mind, you know, right? Um, so anyway, so I'm not trying to hide any of that. I'm not anti Asha, I think there's a lot of things that don't make sense, and there's a lot of things that need to be answered for, and that's why I wanted to be on the Fix SLP podcast. That's why I support what you're doing. That's why I do repost, because I think it's good information and you're asking good questions.

Jeanette Benigas 42:02
Thank you. Thank you.

Lindsey Hokel 42:04
Thank you.

Jeanette Benigas 42:04
We do. Hopefully people are starting to see this isn't an us versus them. I mean, in my head, sometimes it is. I don't think our content would be as spicy sometimes as it is if it wasn't in my head, sometimes, either like them.

Lindsey Hokel 42:20
You have that fire. If you're gonna do all this as a volunteer, you have to have that fire. you have to be at that

Jeanette Benigas 42:28
Yeah, at the end of the day, though, we really just want autonomy and choice. Because maybe when this movement started, we were like, we would love to eliminate the CCC. But again, like you said, sometimes you change your mind, we realize probably that that will never happen, or maybe never happen in our lifetime. So there are certainly things we can do then to allow people to have the choice to purchase this proprietary product or not, if your values don't align with what Ash is doing, or you don't feel like you're getting the value for what they're charging, or, or, or, right?

Lindsey Hokel 43:07
right

Jeanette Benigas 43:07
So just choice, because again, like I said earlier, if we want to play with the big dogs, we have to start acting like them. And there is almost no other profession, especially medically, in this United States that requires you to buy a proprietary product that is a replica of your state license or your teaching certificate, or the thing that you have to have to actually be a speech pathologist in your state, there are two states where, to my knowledge, unless We've made a mistake, two states where the state regulations are not as strict as Asha, and you guys, we've got to get teams in those states. We have to be able to say that the CCC is not a higher standard. Hawaii, you do not require CEUs. Come on now, let's get that going. North Dakota, you need a nine month professional experience. That's it. Those two states, CEUs in Hawaii, nine months supervised experience in North Dakota, boom. There's not one state in the US that it that the CCC is not either a replica of the state standards or a lower bar, yeah, period, yeah. So we should have the choice. We shouldn't have to in Ohio. I should not have to buy both. And I'll tell you, I get I get fire all the time for still having my Cs. But look what we just did with that petition. I was coming under fire for for still having it. But the lawyer told me, You're not going to be able to do that without your seats. You have to keep them. There are other things that we're planning that may happen down the road or maybe may not, but someone on the team is going to have to have them in any kind of lawsuit, someone is going to have to be deposed, right? And so whoever files that lawsuit, that person's going to be the one who's deposed. And guess who that should be? Probably me, right? And so I need to have the CCC to file the lawsuit. For whatever purpose I need to I'm the one with all standing that has been here from the beginning, that has all of this knowledge in my brain that can make a clear case. I need to be the one listen. As soon as I left academia, I was ready. I had a real land where I'm holding my Asha card and literally burning it out in my backyard. Okay, I was so ready for that. And when I when I met with the lawyer after I left academia for Fix SLP, stuff, he was like, You can't do that, not that you can't burn something on Instagram. He's like, but you have to hold on to this for the things that you're planning. And it's like

Lindsey Hokel 45:42
yeah

Jeanette Benigas 45:42
oh, well, yeah. Can I do the one from last year just for fun?

Lindsey Hokel 45:48
Right? That's so funny

Jeanette Benigas 45:50
I mean, so I'm making the choice, and, you know, I'm fine. I've grown a little bit of a thicker skin over the last year. But, you know, again, I'm fighting for choice. What if I chose to keep it? I assure you, I this is not my choice, and I will. I decided, probably a great goal for me would be to have it until every SLP, has the choice. Like, wouldn't that be a fun ending, even if I'm 80 years old, then I will post that real on whatever you know by then it's like chips in our brain that just communicate pictures like, that's what you see, maybe. You know,

Lindsey Hokel 46:25
it'll just like be it's just gonna update in our brains. We're like, oh, Jeanette dropped her Cs

Jeanette Benigas 46:29
yeah

Lindsey Hokel 46:30
We just know

Jeanette Benigas 46:30
I'm 80 in the nursing home, where they're playing, like, Sisquo's the Thong Song at our at our nursing home prom, and uh, I'm just burning my Asha card because finally, every SLP, has the choice. So that's probably where I will have to

Lindsey Hokel 46:47
That's so funny

Jeanette Benigas 46:48
That's not where when. I'll probably have to wait until that. But

Lindsey Hokel 46:51
I don't feel super attached to my Cs necessarily. But I think as more education is dispensed about what it actually means, then like, Yeah, I'd be open to I don't. I don't feel super strongly either way, but I think for now, because I am in the position of being someone trying to educate my colleagues until everybody knows the deal. I just I feel more comfortable having it, you know, but I'm happy to help spread the information too.

Jeanette Benigas 47:30
Yeah, that makes complete sense. Okay. The other thing is, is, as you've struggled through this process about being an ASHA approved CEU provider, which I hope you stick to what you're doing and just become more and more successful with your business because you're doing good things. And so I hope that you never decide to do that, but if you do that's okay, however, I do think. And I mean, you have a team that are all SLPs, so I guess you could do this, but you have, I'm almost positive you have to have someone with the CCC on your team to be an ASHA approved CEU provider. I think almost positive

Lindsey Hokel 48:13
that sounds familiar

Jeanette Benigas 48:14
because the last round last year, when we talked about CEUs, there was a company that was thinking that that was offering it and wasn't going to renew, and that was a consideration, is, who on my team could be the person. So if you're you know, as the business owner, you might need to be the person. Yeah, and again, it's that pay to play kind of thing that they do. Same kind of setup, you know, to buy the CCC, you have to be supervised by someone with the CCC. It's the multi level marketing scheme they got going on to to offer an ASHA approved CEU, you have to have the CCC, right? It's just Yeah.

Lindsey Hokel 48:56
And I loved

Jeanette Benigas 48:57
so tangled

Lindsey Hokel 48:58
the information that you shared. And I know there was, like, a specific post, but basically, like talking about how the CCC itself and the membership, how it should be flipped

Jeanette Benigas 49:15
switched the point of our petition

Lindsey Hokel 49:17
yeah, and it makes so much sense, like, okay, yeah, if I want the credentialing, it's just tracking my paperwork, right? So that could be the, you know, $45 fee or whatever. And then if I want to be a part of the association, which, by the way, I probably, I have FOMO, so I probably would still pay, like, regardless of the Cs, just to be in the club, whatever. But have been being a member, having that be a couple $100 I mean, I think that makes so much sense. I would love to see that happen.

Jeanette Benigas 49:49
And it wasn't even our opinion. We pulled that from their tax forms. They spend approximately 12 to $20 a person maintaining the CCC certificate program

Lindsey Hokel 50:00
right

Jeanette Benigas 50:01
The rest of what they do is a benefit of membership

Lindsey Hokel 50:04
right

Jeanette Benigas 50:05
And that is why we did. We put in a petition that we just did a couple weeks ago to try to force financial transparency, which will then, in turn, make them charge fair market value for those things that they're offering because they are subsidizing the cost of membership with money from the certificate program. They are charging $29 for a membership that now no one can compete with if I wanted to start a new membership association, I could not offer the same benefits at $29 a person. And so they really are putting themselves at risk there. And so since this petition, what you're starting to see is them changing their verbiage on their website, website, which is dumb, because there are platforms like the way back machine that can show us that that's not what it looked like before this started, where they're changing the verbiage to say that the things that they do are it's a benefit to both the ASHA member and the CCC holder. Then why do you have both? Why do you have both? They're two different. Things stop now making them look like one, or the example that the President gave recently that Oh, Asha is so in line with the OT and the PT and maybe even slightly cheaper. You know, you guys are getting such a good deal. No, no, no, no. Your membership cost is completely different than what the OT and the PT associations are. I just looked the other day because I was with the PT, they're up in the two hundreds. But number one, membership is optional. Number two, they're not they're not selling a product as part of that price. You're getting true membership and true membership benefits. And there is no nothing is crossed. There nothing is crossed. So it wasn't a true comparison, and it, it was a lie bio mission, really, because you weren't telling the truth about what your membership cost actually is and the benefits you know you they've got it all entwined, so it's time that we we separate that and and create financial transparency. And the reason they're never going to do this, or it's going to be a huge fight, is because if they do it, membership is actually optional, so if they flip those two prices, how many people are quitting?

Lindsey Hokel 52:29
Yeah, I know I and that's why I love that you're doing this, because these are things that I think people you know coming into the profession, you just take it for face value. You're trying to learn so many things about how to do your job. Most people aren't sitting there thinking about the intricacies of how Asha works and there's such a powerhouse. So I I like that these conversations are happening, and I want people to make informed decisions. I think it's important.

Jeanette Benigas 53:03
and we have, in the next couple weeks, we have our academia information coming to where we're going to start challenging universities. It is now unethical to not educate your students. That the CCC is actually optional in a just like as a medical professional treating swallowing and swallowing disorders. When I make a diet recommendation, I have to provide all choices in a balanced and unbiased way, so that my patients have the opportunity to take all of the information and choose what's right for them and the management of their care. Universities now need to be presenting the CCC as an option in a balanced and unbiased way, and I think they are going to have a very hard time with that.

Lindsey Hokel 53:54
I am now looking on the fixed it's a good time to talk about on the fixed SLP website, under Resources for SLPs going to the state licensing requirement map, and it's great to see how many states are green, meaning the CCC is not required.

Jeanette Benigas 54:09
And that's not even updated

Lindsey Hokel 54:09
so it's really, oh, nice, it's but it's interesting, like it just takes some education for employers, and that's a much easier thing to do than trying to work with your state licensing boards

Jeanette Benigas 54:24
and in, in the coming weeks. So I can, I'm confident. I can say this now, we are launching all of these state teams. And as part of each state team, we are asking a volunteer, one or two volunteers, depending on how many people on the team, to be in charge of organizing state, employer, education, info, and what I've decided, well, not just me, but what we've all decided, as the fixed SLP team, is, even though we can't launch in every state, we certainly can take one to two volunteers in every state who feel like they could help organize the information well, in a way that employers could respond to. So we're looking for email templates, letter templates, one sheets, PowerPoint presentations, any way that you might need to communicate to your employer in your setting about these changes or about the information that we have in that state. There's no reason why we can't do all of that as one big team. Now, in my head, it seems a little overwhelming, because I could end up with 100 volunteers, but great, great. We could have a meeting with 100 volunteers to do this really, but I want to connect everyone, because there's no reason to recreate the wheel, because in some states, the regulations are exactly the same. And so all I need to do on my end is get my content people to brand those. You know, change the state from New York to Kentucky. It's the same PDF. It's the same PowerPoint. We just need to change just a couple words in each and have it very specific to the state, because in a lot of these states, yes, that's really all we need to do as educate employers. And so that's going to be our next big push. And I keep saying, anyone who is interested in that, go ahead. Go ahead and email me right now. I might not have posted anything, but it's coming. So if you are interested, we're looking for an adult medical and a school person in every state. So we need a a med and a peds person in every state to help with this. And in some states, maybe even, like a school a peds person and then like a school person, like in in Pennsylvania, the school stuff is really complicated. So if you're not working in a school, you're never going to know that stuff. So state specific, it might change, but we need at least two people from every state, so team at fix slp.com, state education team. That's what we're looking to recruit and start. So that way, not everybody's recreating the wheel. And honestly, if, if there's even 20 people contributing great ideas. I think we're gonna come up with an amazing set of resources. And so then what we're moving towards, I vetted quotes. I'm ready to go. I just have to start paying the money. But spending fix, SLP, sustaining partner money is very hard for me. We have to have a custom built website to house all of this stuff. So any sustaining partners, that's how we're going to be spending some of the money. If you're not yet a sustaining partner, or if you'd like to give a one time donation, contact me, because you can't do that on the sustaining partner stuff. But yeah, we're looking for a little more money to be able to do this. So we have the ability to house this stuff in a in a way that isn't sending you to a ton of Google Docs, but really just a downloadable PDF that's already customized for you. So that's where we're headed. The person I'm choosing said, and this was a month ago, that the soonest she could get this out was January. So we're at this point. We're probably looking at late winter, early spring, but that's, that's where we're headed. And I feel like you just hijacked your podcast, but it's also, I guess, a great way, a great a great spot for us to end because usually I end by like, Hey guys, if you want to be a sustaining partner, you can go to fix slp.com, click that link. So that's that support. We use that money carefully and wisely, and that's, that's the next big way that we need to spend it, is getting our website to a place where everyone can use it in a really fluid way and not have to be clicking out to 100 places, and also so they can have all the resources right at their fingertips, like I would love another one of those maps where you just click Texas. It shows you the regulation. It shows you the CEUs now. Here are all of those, all of those resources that you need for your employer. Here are the things left that we still think we need to fix. And then even as people contact us about I'm concerned about ABA in my state, or I'm concerned about music therapy, or I'm concerned about rates that we can even have an ongoing list of these are the things that people in your state have identified as a problem. If you'd like to start your own grassroots movement, consider taking on one of those things, and we're here to support you. So that is the big picture. And then even, I guess, because now I'm getting goosebumps, because I've really been putting a lot of thought behind this, and I guess this is where I'm going to announce it. I'm also moving towards setting up a fixed SLP foundation where we can start giving grants to people who want to do advocacy work and need money, whether that be state associations or people like me who started this movement and really could use some money. And I'm sure this is a long ways down the road, because obviously we will need big donors to make these things happen. But that's where we're headed. We're headed to change this field in a positive way, in more ways than just this is what we think needs to happen. So yeah, I I've got big plans. Going into year two, we'll see where we're at, and there's quite. but

Lindsey Hokel 1:00:00
I see and I like, dream big sky's the limit. Yeah, manifest, seriously, and I think, I think that's awesome. I love you're a mover and a shaker. You're doing big things.

Jeanette Benigas 1:00:13
Well, Lindsay, you were concerned that we were not going to have enough to talk about. I told you I had zero concerns. I'm probably cutting a lot of this out, but thank you for I think being one of the first people I don't know on this podcast or that I wasn't at least super familiar with, I'm so thankful that you made time in your evening to do this on a very last minute request, and I hope that you just keep growing and succeeding. And you know

Lindsey Hokel 1:00:45
thank you. You too.

Jeanette Benigas 1:00:48
Thank you um everybody, rock the R official on Instagram, right?

Lindsey Hokel 1:00:55
Facebook is rock the R official. Instagram, Tiktok, all the things YouTube. It's all @rocktheRspeech.

Jeanette Benigas 1:01:04
Okay, got it. There. We go. Go find her, go, follow, go. I'm sure her stuff is as cute as her little office there. Soall right, guys, you can keep your Cs. You don't have to get them whatever you want, but what you have to do is start taking pdhs and not caring so much that they've been Asha approved, because there are so many great people out there offering really high quality continuing education who are putting in the time and the hours to bring you the best product possible. And I'm not saying that to indicate that people who are Asha approved aren't doing those things, but yeah, there is equal effort here. Go support your small business owner who who's trying to keep costs low. Learn some great stuff. And if you're in a state where you cannot do that, let us know if you want to help fix that, and we will get you launched with a team. So team at fixslp.com,

I think that's it. So thanks. Thanks for being on and thanks for fixing it, guys.

Lindsey Hokel 1:02:12
Thank you!

Transcribed by https://otter.ai