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Leader Dogs for the Blind empowers people who are blind or visually impaired with the tools for safe and independent daily travel. Our goal is to educate, advocate, and share real life experiences of those with blindness. Come learn, laugh, and grow with us.
Taking The Lead Podcast Remote_061726_Emily
Leslie: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Taking the Lead podcast, where we empower people to be unstoppable. I'm Leslie Hoskins with my co-hosts Alissa Otis and Timothy Cugno. How's summer going, guys?
Alyssa: I, I don't know how it is in Georgia, but I feel like it has been so hot here. Yeah. I'm constantly looking for shade.
Timothy: It's sweltering.
It's Georgia. It's humidity. Let's ask Glacier how she's doing with the hot.
Alyssa: Yeah, no, it is, it has ... You know, I complain about winter, and I complain and complain, and I try and remember, you know what? The weather's nice. We can be outside, so if I'm a little hot, I'll put a fan on.
Leslie: Yes. Yes. And it's so nice to be outside and having the kids play and, like- Oh
ride bikes and sports and all of the things. So it is a little warm. However, we'll take it.
Alyssa: For sure.
Timothy: I think I'd rather have heat than, than wintertime. Yeah.
Alyssa: Yeah. I would agree with that, and I know my, uh, my pet dog is loving it. He is swimming like a fish, I guess you could say. Out in our [00:01:00] backyard, we have a miniature pool, very, very tiny pool.
He basically, he's six inches tall, and he stands in it. He's just standing. But it's super cute. Yeah. So I know a lot of the dogs are enjoying some beach time, too. Yeah. Some water play, which is always great. Does Glacier like the water?
Timothy: Uh, yes. If we get her in the lake, she goes. I like to play fetch with her in the, in the lake and stuff.
Yeah. And she's, she's a good retriever. But the only problem is she tries to drink the lake while she's in there. And she gags. Yeah. And, you know, all that stuff. She gets out, and you just throw back out there. I mean- Yeah ... after about 10 throws, she's done.
Alyssa: Yeah. Yeah. I'm telling you, it's just like a toddler.
They all wanna drink the lake water. I don't know. When, when would we break 'em of that habit, Timothy?
Leslie: Well, it doesn't seem like in my household six or nine, aren't it? So-
Alyssa: Right ... we've
Leslie: got some more years on this.
Alyssa: That's so funny. Oh, well, I am glad that everybody's having such a fun summer. We, of course, always have fun things going on at Leader Dog, whether it be summer or winter, and I w- would love to share some of that with you guys today.
So today we are joined by a very special guest of ours who's [00:02:00] also a guide dog mobility instructor, and we will go into what she does now as well. Um, but we are here with Emily Sharp.
Leslie: Yes, Emily is a graduate of Central Michigan University and holds certifications as both a guide dog mobility instructor and a service dog trainer.
Her work at Leader Dog centers on improving the tools and experiences that support our guide dogs and clients, including leading initiatives like our harness study. She is passionate about using data and real world insights to drive meaningful improvements for the teams and individuals we serve.
Timothy: Emily, welcome to the podcast.
It's great having you on here today. So let's ask you what brought you to Leader Dog.
Emily: Guys, thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here. Um, so coming to Leader Dog, I have a, like Leslie said, I have a background in service dog training. Um, prior to that, I was actually a puppy raiser for another organization, um, on the other side of Michigan, and we raised, uh, my family and I raised five, uh, service dog puppies.
And then I found the job listing for, um, [00:03:00] the guide dog GDMI apprentice, um, here at Leader Dog, and so I applied, and the rest is history. Here I am.
Leslie: What is the difference between a service dog trainer and a guide dog mobility instructor?
Emily: Yeah, so a lot of it, um, revolves around the different needs of the clients.
So a, um, service dog trainer, we're focused more on that task training. Um, and then the guide dog, uh, is very focused on guide work. Um, but we trained, uh, service dogs for, um, mobility concerns, so someone using a wheelchair. We would train hearing dogs- Mm ... um, for people who are deaf or hard of hearing, um, seizure response dogs.
Um, we also trained, um, uh, service dogs for children with autism as well.
Alyssa: Yeah. So it's really, service dogs is that huge umbrella. Mm-hmm. And then underneath that are so many different types, so that wheelchair, uh, assistance dogs, stability dogs, autism dogs, uh, and then also guide dogs. Mm-hmm. It's just they're kind of trained in another organization, at [00:04:00] another organization.
They're-
Emily: Yeah ... a
Alyssa: little more unique.
Emily: And then the, the cool thing and, and kind of what brought me to Leader Dog was, another piece was, um, when I was training the service dogs, I was training, um... We called them hearing dogs at the time, but they're basically a, a response to a sound, and they notify the, the client that a sound is happening.
And when I applied here, we have our deaf/blind program, and so I kind of fit in perfectly because I had a background training hearing dogs. Um, and then I needed to obviously learn the guide dog aspe- aspect and, and also having, um, a sign language background as well. So it was pretty, uh, kind of fit, fit perfectly.
Leslie: Yeah. And I know we're not, this is not the topic for today. We have other things to talk about. But I am really curious, what is the, like, the background to become a service dog instructor? Like, here you have to go through a four-year apprenticeship to become a guide dog mobility instructor, but what is-
Emily: So it's a, yep, a, a three-year apprentice program Okay And it's the same as, as here.
Um, we had an apprenticeh- uh, an apprenticeship, uh, through the, [00:05:00] gosh, it's the Uni- US Department of Labor. Um, and so it was a recognized apprenticeship, and I have a certification, um, through that as well. So yeah, two three-year apprenticeships. Two,
Alyssa: yeah.
Leslie: Yeah. I don't know why I said four. A lot of time. No I said four.
Sometimes it- I looked across at you. I'm like, "That's not right." Sometimes it takes
Emily: time.
Leslie: It's three.
Alyssa: Sometimes it takes a little bit longer. It depends on the class schedule, of course.
Leslie: And now you guys are being kind. All right. Three-year apprenticeship for both of them. I got it. Fantastic.
Alyssa: And so then you came here and, and apprenticed GDMI, GDMI, and, and now what are you doing?
Emily: So now I am our GDMI program manager and our canine quality assurance. So it's kind of a big title. Um, it encompasses a lot. People ask, "What do you do?" And I say, "Well, let me start with my title, and then we'll go from there." Um, so but what I, what I mainly focus on is our, um, continued education for our GDMIs, so bringing in s- uh, different speakers.
I do a, a, I call it Tidbits Tuesday. Uh, it's almost like a lunch and learn. Um, [00:06:00] every couple of weeks we do some new topic, um, in the training department. Um, and then I'm also really focused on our evaluations of our dogs, so kind of that quality control aspect, um, for our guide dogs. And right now I work kind of all the way through puppy development, um, when they're with puppy raisers, and I w- collaborate with puppy development all the way up through to the point where they're graduating.
Timothy: So Emily, I hear that you're working on this harness part of the new guide dog thing we're doing. So can you tell us what you're doing? And I know we don't have the results of it yet, but what are we trying to aspire here with the new harness?
Emily: Absolutely. Thanks, Timothy. So, um, something that we kind of got...
It got brought up is, um, we've kind of had two things to focus on. So we have some dogs, and it's a industry wide issue. Um, it's called body sensitivity. It's when the dogs are either avoidant of the harness, or you put the harness on and they kind of freeze. They duck their back end. Um, and it can really affect the, not only the quality of their work, um, but it also is [00:07:00] just they're not happy in the equipment.
And so that's a, a huge piece. Um, and, and again, that's an industry wide, um, concern. So we wanted to really focus on that, um, because we want our dogs to be comfortable in the equipment that they're using. And the other piece is the, uh, easily detachable handle. So, um, we have had feedback from clients that our current harness handle is very difficult, especially when people are traveling.
Um, it gets stuck on things. It's, um, bulky and, and heavy, and so clients really want that easily detachable harness handle. Um, so those are kind of the two big, big pieces of, of kinda why we started this. Um, and, um, so I'm, I'm really excited to analyze the data that comes through.
Leslie: So what was the study?
What did you guys do? So those are the things that you were specifically looking at, but then how did you conduct it? Yeah, what did it look like? What happened?
Emily: Yeah, so we, um ... It was really cool. We got to go to the University of ... No, the [00:08:00] Ohio State-
Alyssa: The Ohio State University. I'm so embarrassed. Oh,
Emily: wow. You're gonna start a whole thing.
Yeah, I know. No, don't. Don't say that. The Ohio State University. Oh, my gosh. And we also worked with graduate students from Akron. Um, and we took eight dogs with us down to, um, down to Ohio, and we actually got to work in... It was kind of, um, a little bit funny. We worked in this, like, kind of shady back room.
It felt very official, yet also, like-
Leslie: Questionable.
Emily: Questionable. Um, but no, it was ... The, the staff and the team that we got to work with were amazing. They were really, really, um, excited about this whole thing. Um, and we... So we had kind of two groups of dogs that went down. Um, we stayed with them in h- in a hotel overnight.
It was kind of cool. Um, and we kind of did them in, in almost, like, two different shifts. And, um, each dog, we had four harnesses that we were trying. So we had our leader dog harness. We had a Y front harness, um, with a single [00:09:00] detachable handle. Mm-hmm. We had, uh, what we, what I'm calling our Swiss body harness, and then an adjustable front Swiss body harness, which just means it has a buckle on the, on the front.
Um, so we had those four different harnesses, and what we were looking at was pressure points on each harness, um, and how the, how it affected the dog's movement. So we had, we got to put all of these, um ... And the veterinarians were in charge of this piece because I don't ... I, I know enough about canine structure-
but, you know. Um, and s- they were, they actually used wig glue, and they attached little, um,
Alyssa: like- Like
Emily: foam semicircles? ...
Alyssa: Styrofoam.
Emily: Yeah, they were like Styrofoam balls. Um, and they used wig glue to attach them to certain points on their body. So- So interesting ... like the point of the shoulder-
Alyssa: Yeah ...
Emily: the ankle, the wrist, the elbow, all of, you know, all through their body.
Point of the hip, things like that. And, um, they then used those markers to ... So they l- the dogs looked really funny because- ... half of their body is covered in 13- ... of these little tiny Styrofoam balls. And [00:10:00] we had a couple of dogs that were like, you know, "What, what the heck is this?" Yeah. Some of them didn't even care.
They didn't even notice. But then we had some that would look down and see them, and all of a sudden they look, and they're startled by it- ... and they're trying to bite them off their body, and so it was kind of funny. Um, and then the, the glue actually ended up sticking on them for a while. Oh, yeah. So we would get reports- Wig glue's strong.
Yeah, we would get reports from Canine Care of, "Why do these dogs have..." You know, and we sent out emails and stuff. Yeah. But every once in a while someone's like, "What is this?" I'm like, "It's just glue. It's okay."
Leslie: Yeah. "
Emily: They'll be fine." But we used those, um, little markers to track motion, and so we had prob- I don't even know how many, um, GoPro cameras set up around the room.
And so we had a, a, a view from the front. We had a view from the back. Uh, we had side views, a- different angles, things like that. And so the, the smart people- ... are going to analyze all of that motion tracking so that they can see how the dog's shoulders are affected or how their gait is different in each harness.
[00:11:00] Um, and then we also had a pressure sensing mat on the floor- Wow ... that we had to line the dogs up with. And I would give the cue for the dog to go forward, and I'm working the dog in harness, but I'm also carrying this, like, computer device in my hand, and it's flopping all over the place. And, um, the dogs were saints.
Yeah. They were so adaptable and, and they, um, they just really stepped up to the plate. And, um, but it was so nice to get to work with ... We worked with some, um, dogs that were farther along in training, so they really understood the concept of driving to the end. Mm-hmm. And, um, it was funny, one of them The dogs was a little bit hesitant to walk down the platform, and so I said, "We just need to get the, the reps."
And we did over 450 repetitions.
Leslie: And you did all of those. I was gonna say.
Emily: I did, I did all of them. Yeah. I felt like Jell-O by the time we were done. My, my brain wasn't working. Um, we, we had the schedule of like, okay, this one we're gonna walk the whole thing.
Leslie: Yeah.
Emily: Uh, the next one we're gonna stop halfway, then we're [00:12:00] gonna start halfway, because we wanted to get really, um, good information about the, in those sensors of like-
Leslie: Yeah
Emily: the chest pressure and, and- Yeah ... all of the above. Um, and so I, we had one dog that was a little bit hesitant to walk all the way down, and so I had one of the assistants, one of the grad students, um, she was sitting at the end in a chair, and she would just sit at the very end, and she would get her arms really wide, and she would just look all excited-
and be really, it, like enticing down at the end- Yeah ... to kind of call the dog down. And once the dog got, got the picture that he was gonna bear, basically get like a big bear hug from- Yeah ... Randy at the end, it was, um, it was just very fun. So we, um, got to have a lot of fun with it, but it was also purely professional and very scientific.
And, um, so it was, it was a blast. And so I, I'm just really excited to see the data from that and what we can-
Leslie: It's so interesting- ... gather ... like the partnerships we get to have, and the research in all the things. We were talking about this recently with Melissa Weis about all the organizations and universities and the [00:13:00] research that's behind so many of the decisions that we make.
I am curious, so when we are partnering with the Ohio State University, so we came to them kind of and said, "These are our questions. These are our problems," and then they designed the study based off that?
Emily: Yeah, so, um, our theriogenologist- Uh-huh ... I hope I did that right. Yeah. No,
Leslie: you did it.
Emily: I love it. Um, Dr.,
Dr. McCray, she actually had a connection for us, and so we, um, kind of had an in, and we met with the team, and we kind of designed, uh, uh, the study. And we said, you know, "We're, we're interested in the pressure points. We're interested in, in motion sensing," all of that. And they, yeah, they kind of had, had the setup, and they knew what they wanted to do, and they're
They know, they know what they're doing. They had actually just did a very similar study with, um, sled dogs-
Alyssa: Oh,
Emily: wow ... different sled dog harnesses. Wow. But the funny thing was they were working with sled dogs, and sled dogs are a whole different- A whole
Alyssa: different breed of dog.
Emily: Holy moly. And so when they had...
When we had [00:14:00] our very s- calm- Yeah ... subdued, very well-behaved, 'cause they were all so good.
Alyssa: Yeah.
Emily: Um, all, you know, all of them on the, in the, in the room or i- in the fa- uh, facility with us, it was just really funny the, the drastic difference between. They kept saying, "Oh my gosh, these dogs are so good." Yeah. So it was, it was very cool.
I mean, it, what a nice compliment for us too.
Leslie: Yeah, absolutely.
Emily: Yeah.
Timothy: That- So, so, um, we're doing all this research, Emily, so... And I can appreciate Leader Dog's doing, just making that harness. You know, uh, for me sometimes there's some things I, at times I wish, I mean, I wish it was a different way, like s- when I'm on the airplane trying to buckle Glacier up before we get off the plane, and you got tight spaces, and that strap, it goes underneath her chin and all that stuff.
Sometimes it causes issue. But when will we get this data? And about what time do you think we'll back at the results of this?
Emily: That is the money question, David. Yeah.
Alyssa: I, I think everybody- Yeah ... has been pestering Emily about this answer.
Emily: Um, I'm hoping within the next month or so. They actually recently sent a, um, an, a...[00:15:00]
They made a, a poster, a graduate poster on kind of the methodology of the study and how they did it. Um, and it looks really official. It's very cool. I printed it off in giant paper- ... and put it outside my office. My name is on, like, a published study. I found really cool. Yeah. But I don't have access to the actual data yet, and I, I, I also don't wanna rush them too much- Of course
because they took a lot of their time and, um... But it's, it's coming. I'm hoping it's coming.
Leslie: And what are we hoping, like, what is the end goal to get out of this, this research and this information?
Emily: Yeah, I think a lot of it is going to help drive where else we need to focus. Mm-hmm. So the data could come back and say the Leader Dog harness is where it needs to be.
Mm-hmm. It's not affecting movement. It's not... There aren't major pressure points. There, you know, it, it might come back great. It might come back and say one of the other, other harnesses is a better or, or, you know, a better example, or there's certain pressure points here on this harness and other pressure points, and here's how [00:16:00] we could maybe create a different design-
Leslie: Sure
Emily: um, to, you know, to use in the future. But that's kind of a little bit long, long reaching at this point.
Leslie: Mm-hmm.
Emily: Um, I think a lot of this has, has created a, the conversation of, um, opening it up to clients. And we recently sent out the client harness survey, where I got over 150, 160, um, responses from our, our clients.
That's great. And that's, that's really the cool thing that we're asking is, is we want the feedback, we want the information. And, and people were really open and honest. And one of the coolest things I heard, or a lot of the feedback, was, uh, we love our harness. We love the Leader Dog harness. I do love it
Alyssa: too.
Emily: It's classic, it's tried and true. Yeah. It's pretty, it's, it's clean, it's, um- Long lasting ... it's long lasting. Yeah. And, and that was really cool to... I took a lot of that feedback and actually went and shared it with our tack room- Yeah ... uh, volunteers. And- Oh,
Alyssa: they probably appreciated
Emily: that so much. Yeah. I said, "You know, they're, they're..."
[00:17:00] I said, "The clients are commenting on the, the craftsmanship, the stitching- Yeah. "... the quality, the," you know. And so I said, "Thank you guys for, for all of the hard work, because I know they're really, really dedicated- Yeah ... to what they do in there."
Alyssa: For those of you that don't know, you know, Leader Dog runs on volunteer help.
I mean, we really truly couldn't do without our volunteers, and I believe we have over 1,000 volunteers. And some of those volunteers work in the tack room. And so our tack room is where our harnesses are made, and they are stamping numbers into it, and they are stitching it. And I tell you, I am not kidding when I say there are two machines in there that I don't even look at the wrong way.
Because they are so old that if they break, I don't know if anybody knows how to fix them. So the incredible volunteers probably love to hear that.
Emily: Yeah.
Alyssa: That's amazing.
Emily: That's really nice to share that with
Alyssa: them. And, and working with all the different harnesses had to have felt kind of unique to you. I know- Mm-hmm
as a GDMI, I've u- of course used our Leader Dog harness, and I've had other instructors from other organizations. Mm-hmm. You know, we play swap the harness and- Yeah ... and mess around when we're at conferences, just to see- Mm-hmm ... kind of the [00:18:00] difference and feel. So that had to be kind of unique for you.
Emily: Yeah.
It's, uh, it was definitely odd. Um, they're all, they all have a similar concept, which is great. Mm-hmm. Um, but definitely very odd to use different harnesses. Yeah. And I was using, you know, one, one repetition I would do this harness, and then we'd switch and we'd have another dog lined up, and I'd grab that dog and- Wow.
Um, but yeah, it was, it was definitely- Definitely unique s- scenario.
Leslie: Had the dogs tried on any of the different harnesses prior to going down there?
Emily: Yeah, we did. We had them wear them, uh, o- once or twice. Yeah. Uh, for the most part, we... I asked for dogs that weren't showing any d- signs of body sensitivity.
Mm-hmm. Um, I just wanted some nice solid dogs. Um, and so we, we did try them on. We also asked for dogs that were approximately the same size- Sure ... because that's good for data.
Alyssa: Yeah.
Emily: Um, and so we had to make sure that we weren't gonna have any dogs that needed anything- Yeah ... super special for the fit of the harness.
Leslie: Yeah.
Alyssa: Just curious, 'cause I, I haven't asked this yet personally, um, I assume male and females-
Emily: Yep ...
Alyssa: were [00:19:00] used. Yep. And then breeds, you used Labs mostly? Yeah, we used
Emily: Labs and Lab/Golden crosses.
Alyssa: Crosses. Yeah. Yeah.
Emily: I,
Alyssa: I
Emily: really d- it really
Alyssa: didn't matter that much. Well, easier with the hair too for the pressure point wig glue.
Emily: Yeah, very true.
Alyssa: Think of all the- Yeah ... wig glue you would need for a Golden.
Emily: Right. Yeah.
Alyssa: Yeah. That's... Well, I cannot wait to, to see those results because who knows what will come from it.
Emily: Yeah.
Alyssa: And like you said, our clients are super... They love our, our Leader Dog harness, but what are some things that, you know, our clients know because they use these harnesses, but what are some things that you just wish everybody knew about these harnesses?
Obviously, the importance of them.
Emily: Yeah, I, I think, uh, you know, a big thing is the value of them.
Alyssa: Yeah.
Emily: Um, they are... They cost a lot of money. Uh, they are somebody's... You know, our, our tack room volunteers, it's their pride and joy.
Alyssa: Yeah.
Emily: Um, but also just the kind of how they're, how they're used. I mean, our, our clients, um, use them e- every day.
It's a, a, a piece of them. It's, it's- Yeah ... part of [00:20:00] their dog. Um, and I think a lot of it is just remembering how much feedback they get through them.
Leslie: Mm-hmm.
Emily: Um, and so the, a- as we, you know, people, I, I've heard people just say, "Well, well, well, why can't we just switch and use a different harness?" Or, "Why can't, what's the big deal?"
Right. Um, and I think that we also have to keep in mind the dogs. Our dogs, you know, uh, uh, people, people say, like, "Oh, if we switch to a different harness, we'll just send them all out, and we'll just backfill everybody." And I said, "No."
Alyssa: Oh,
Emily: no, no, no, no, no. No. No. Because- Please don't ... because the dogs have been trained in a- Yes
certain type of harness. So if we just all of a sudden switch something- Yeah ... that could have a major effect on, on the success of a team. If, if things are going well, don't- Yeah ... don't mess with it. That's
Alyssa: it.
Emily: So. Yeah, if it's not broke. Yeah.
Timothy: Yeah. Clayton wouldn't do good with a different harness.
Emily: Right.
Fisher would not. Right.
Timothy: She would not like that.
Emily: Yep. Um, but yeah, so it's- Yeah ... it's, um...
Alyssa: You're, you're right. The feedback is a huge, huge part of that harness. We always say the leash is a good way for us to communicate to the [00:21:00] dog. Mm-hmm. And, and the harness handle is how the handler gets their information from the dog.
So- Yeah ... different handles, different pressure points, that all has to affect it, and that's gonna be, I think, no matter what we decide, whether we stay with Leader Dog's harness, or we say, "Hey, here's some improvements we can make-" Mm-hmm ... I think it's gonna be a learning curve for everybody.
Emily: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
Leslie: One of the things we've talked about a lot recently too is our collaboration with other guide dog organizations, right? Mm-hmm. Like, people do not understand or believe us when we talk in this field of how we all work together, right? Yeah. So we do surveys together, and we share results, and we all collaborate in that way.
Is that our intention with this information as well?
Emily: Yes, absolutely. It's not something that we're just gonna hold, because we did use other guide dog harnesses from other schools- Yeah ... and from other companies. Um, and the coolest thing about this whole, it, uh, the harness study, and harnesses in general are kind of my, like, I'm the harness guru.
Yeah. And s- but I, it's been really neat because every time I talk with another school, I say, "Hey, will you send me one of your harnesses, because I'm [00:22:00] doing this study?" I now have a drawer upstairs- ... in my office- It's
Alyssa: locked.
Emily: It's locked. ... full of guide dog harnesses from literally around the world, and it's very, very cool to collaborate.
And I just say- Wow ... you know, I, I will hold it near and dear- Yeah ... and I will take good care of it, and if you ever want it back, let me know. Um, but people just say, like, "Hang on to it. Keep it." And so I love when I get a new one, I hold it up and show everybody. Yeah. I'm like, "Come see this. It's so cool." Um, and it's always, people are always Always free to come try them and use them on a dog if they, if they're struggling with anything.
I say, "Try this harness," or, "See what's..." Yeah. You know, so it's, it's just really cool to, to try something new. So pizza, our
Leslie: dog's first. There's so much pride, I think, amongst the guide dog organizations- So much ... and service dog organizations in general. And I think it's exciting to be leading this research, and then to be able to share on behalf of Leader Dog, but for all guide dog organizations, what the results are.
And it may impact other change at different organizations. Mm-hmm. Um, so I think it's really cool. We've been just- Yeah ... [00:23:00] talking about research a lot on this podcast, and all the different implications of it, and the, a- and how it's really leading to a lot of change around here. So thank you for, for doing all this work.
Yes. And it's very exciting.
Alyssa: Very exciting. I personally am very into the harness. I have my own that I sent out to somebody. Oh, yeah. That I had leather carved and all put together. So yes, we are, we are a little nerdy for our harnesses, but- Yeah ... I like that. Yeah. So.
Leslie: Timothy, can I ask you, you know, we sent out this information to clients saying, you know, "Hey, this is happening, just so you know.
And like, we'll be sure to share the results when we, when we get it." Have you heard anything from people as far as clients go? Has there been talk or chatter? Are people excited, nervous?
Timothy: Everybody's excited about this, so I, we're looking forward to it.
Leslie: Amazing.
Alyssa: Yeah. Again, I don't know who's more excited about it, the GDMI's, myself, clients, the people at the Ohio State University.
Um, really. Everybody. Everybody. But truly, Emily, thank you so much for talking about the harness study. I know people are always interested in what's coming [00:24:00] next, what's up and coming. And, you know, all of our organizations have been around for, for quite a while. So sometimes we see change over time, and this might just be one of those times.
So thank you. Thank you so much for coming. And thank you all for listening to the Taking the Lead podcast. I'm Alyssa Otis with hosts Timothy Cugno and Leslie Hoskins. We hope you enjoyed learning about the harness study and all of the exciting updates that our Guide Dog Services program is doing. So please join us next time as we continue to dive into the world of blindness.
Leslie: And if you'd like to learn more about applying to Leader Dog, you can head to leaderdog.org or call us at 888-777-5332. Don't forget, you can reach us at takingthelead@leaderdog.org with any questions or ideas. If you liked today's podcast, make sure to hit subscribe and check us out wherever podcasts stream.