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The Life of And podcast is for high-achieving women and working parents who are ready to stop living a life of “have to” and start designing a life they actually want. It’s a space where we talk honestly about the things we’re often afraid to admit — even to ourselves. The exhaustion. The ambition. The loneliness. The joy. The tension of wanting more without losing yourself in the process.
If you’re in the thick of it — feeling stretched, tired, hopeful, driven — this is your invitation to take a breath, get real, and find your way back to your own Life of And.
[00:00:00] Danielle Ireland: I was confronting so much scarcity and loss and am I doing this too late? But every time, what I learned is that confidence is always, in hindsight, it's earned through facing discomfort and being able to say, I did it.
[00:00:13] Tiffany Sauder: I'm Tiffany Sauder. Entrepreneur, wife, mom to four girls and a woman figuring it out just like you.
[00:00:19] Tiffany Sauder: If you're tired of living a life of have to and finally ready to build a life of want to, then you're in the right place. Come on, let's go build your Life of And.
[00:00:37] Tiffany Sauder: Welcome back to another episode of Life of And. I'm your host, Tiffany Sauder. And before we get into this conversation, 'cause I do a little bit of a preamble. I just wanna do a quick bio on my guest because she's just like wickedly impressive, and I want you to understand just her credibility and background before we double click into this conversation.
[00:00:54] Tiffany Sauder: So my conversations with Danielle Ireland. She is a licensed therapist, a mental health advocate based here in Indianapolis in my backyard. She's so warm. Her insightfulness and her authenticity shine through in absolutely everything she does. She's got a background, which you'll hear us talk about in the performing arts as a ballroom dancer, instructor, and an actress for like 10 years.
[00:01:15] Tiffany Sauder: So wild. And now she does clinical, mental, mental health. Went back to school like as a grownup and got her master's and did all the things. So Danielle, she just brings this really rare blend of empathy, creativity, and professionalism to her work that I'm really excited for you to hear about. So she describes herself as a recovering perfectionist.
[00:01:36] Tiffany Sauder: Which is a bit wild as you start to hear The free-spirited version of her evolved adult self and she now channels this journey into fostering others and finding self-compassion and growth so that we can better understand ourselves. So she's also the heart behind. Don't Cut Your Own Bangs. Best podcast, title, name ever.
[00:01:54] Tiffany Sauder: And she guides guests to the messy, beautiful middle of life. So whether you're crafting your own self-care journey, self-discovery, like so many of us are on or seeking laughter and healing, Danielle's gonna be your guide. So listen to my conversation with Danielle. We cover a lot of ground, but really she makes me think deeply about where I'm going.
[00:02:15] Tiffany Sauder: And why I want to get there. Listen in you guys. I'm really excited for today's conversation. This interview came together very naturally, which I think are the best ones when you're not scouring the internet, seeing who can I interview and add value to myself and to my mark, to my listeners. But Danielle and I we're in a shared group together.
[00:02:37] Tiffany Sauder: She's also a podcaster here in Indianapolis, and just a very generous spirit. And so I. Asked her and some other women to lunch and just said like, I, you know, this kind of like world of scripting, of producing yourself and being on the microphone and trying to put something that you really are proud of out into the world can be very lonely.
[00:02:55] Tiffany Sauder: Uh, and so I was looking for just some people to kind of share that with, share that burden with a little bit and sort of feel like I wasn't doing it wrong. And in that I asked her to reach into my Life of And world, and I shared with her some of the. Like tools I teach that I know have a bit of a therapy underpinning to them, but I'm not trained in that way.
[00:03:18] Tiffany Sauder: And so I asked Danielle if she would come and sort of share some insights with me off the mic. And so it came together. So naturally I'm like, we have to get on the microphone and do this. So Danielle, thanks for being here.
[00:03:27] Danielle Ireland: Thank you Tiffany for having me. This is a pleasure. And first I wanna say that you have such a mind for community.
[00:03:34] Danielle Ireland: And, uh, you have a macro process mind. Mm-hmm. Like you can see how threads and dots connect in such a zoomed out way that I admire, because that's not how my mind works. Like I kind of get locked in. To in, in more, in a more singular way. Mm-hmm. Which lends to the work that I do. Yeah. But I really admire the zone of genius that you have in your life.
[00:03:56] Danielle Ireland: Of, and, and I will say the reason why it feels like it connects with therapy is because therapy is just a way that we have created to process emotion and everything you're tapping into with life with and has an emotional root. So even though you may not have the therapeutic training, your life experience as a human, and then the emotions you have.
[00:04:14] Danielle Ireland: Absolutely lend itself to that. Mm-hmm.
[00:04:16] Tiffany Sauder: Well, I I think that's so true, and I think because I do see the macro, it is hard for me sometimes to, to like pinpoint like, why does this work? And I really think that that is gonna be the root of our conversation is like, why are the things the way they are?
[00:04:32] Tiffany Sauder: Because when we understand that, I feel like also therapy is about taking agency over what is. Yes. Some of it's good, some of it's bad, some of it's hard, some of it's gross, some of it's embarrassing. All those things are just true. And so I think that's also like in the spirit of the work you do, in the spirit of the work I do, it's like we just have to see what's true
[00:04:53] Danielle Ireland: and yes, and I, I think.
[00:04:55] Danielle Ireland: See what's true and really see it. I think we overestimate as individuals our, how unique our experiences are. I think we, we, we over index like, and which can turn into pathologizing and shame and really heavy self-critical talk. Like I somehow am a failing at this. I somehow am not able to connect the dots.
[00:05:17] Danielle Ireland: It's my inability to execute X, Y, and Z. Or why am I feeling so overwhelmed and confused and the benefit I have. And the training I have, and then the work that I do as a therapist is that I get to hear hundreds. And I think at this point I, it would be fair to say thousands and thousands of expressions of those same types of fears and thoughts.
[00:05:41] Danielle Ireland: And so the pain and the emotions are not special or unique. Which is why I think what you tapped into with Life of And is so powerful. You tapped into your experience and through the process of sharing it, it has become bigger than you, which is always what happens. Mm-hmm. It's just, that is the trap, the elusive trap of shame, and I'm calling it shame, but we call it fear or anxiety.
[00:06:06] Danielle Ireland: Mm-hmm. We call it scarcity. Anything based an emotion that makes you feel uncomfortable. But when you acknowledge it and then find a safe place to put it, whether that's a journal, a person, a community, a workshop, a coach, it doesn't have to be therapy, but when you find a place where you can reveal that part of yourself that you otherwise thought you could never share, there is instant relief.
[00:06:29] Danielle Ireland: And then if it's met with kindness or curiosity. Mm-hmm. Or, yeah, I get it. Me too. Oh my gosh. Then. Transformation happens. Mm-hmm. But it first has to start with really letting yourself see it.
[00:06:42] Tiffany Sauder: Totally. And I, that's actually so interesting the way this whole journey in my podcast used to be called Scared Confident.
[00:06:48] Tiffany Sauder: I started out with like, I'm just tired of operating, kind of just wrestling with fear. People would've set, observed me as being brave and courageous and entrepreneurial and stepping into all this risk. But I felt like I was just like wrestling a bear. I'm like, I'm just kind of done with that. So I went on.
[00:07:03] Tiffany Sauder: So that kind of started. Me just exposing it on the microphone. But even the way I talked about the beginning of our relationship came from exactly what you're saying is confronting my fear and the speed at which. I'm willing to do that in my life of saying like, I'm feeling lonely. I'm so tribal as a human.
[00:07:21] Tiffany Sauder: I used to run a big company. I felt a lot of purpose in that. My calendar pulled me through my day. My people sort of told me what to put my time to, you know what I mean? And now I'm like, ah. It's like somehow very noisy and very quiet at the exact same time as I'm out on my own. And so I was like, I have to imagine others are feeling the same way.
[00:07:41] Tiffany Sauder: And maybe we have lunch and that's all it becomes, but maybe we meet quarterly, maybe we support each other. Maybe we solve faster moving together. And I think that's a way that I've learned to have more courage and not being embarrassed that I feel that way. Being able to put vocabulary to it faster.
[00:07:59] Danielle Ireland: Well, the way you're able to identify, oh, I'm feeling this, uh, I can see that. And then, then, then, and then. Do you all wanna talk about it? Mm-hmm. And I, I value that so much and I admire that so much. 'cause my work as a therapist, I work with clients virtually. I work from home. This is the fanciest I've been in a minute, you know, on a Tuesday afternoon.
[00:08:19] Danielle Ireland: She's usually a spiritual gangster style. It's, yeah, it's, it's, it's typically athleisure and athleisure is even generous. 'cause I, that's like a whole market now. It's probably like, honestly, you know, the fashion police, like it's, it's yoga pants. But because the work I do is. Largely has been working with individuals and talking to 'em about their individual life and devoting an hour at a time for each person.
[00:08:41] Danielle Ireland: It, it almost feels like a Tetris board of, you get an hour, you get an hour, you get an hour, you get an hour. And when I really committed to creating something. My, my podcast is called Don't Cut Your Own Bangs. The Remedy to comparison and feeling like everyone has life figured out. But you and I started that originally when I began my therapy practice because I wanted to still access something creative, but I never, I didn't have a goal attached to it.
[00:09:07] Danielle Ireland: Mm-hmm. It was just, I have a creative outlet. Yay. Now I'll go back to therapy. And over the course of making it little by little by little. I'm such a feelings first person, it started to feel like it could be more. Mm. And I started to see the impact of what it could be. And then I started meeting people like you, meeting people like Ashley Flowers.
[00:09:27] Danielle Ireland: Mm-hmm. Who you know, created Crime Junkie and Audiochuck. I started to see in my life, right in front of my eyes. Oh. There is something so much more that this could be, and it wasn't that I wanted to do or be you or what anyone else was, but I was, it was like I saw that there was all this real estate in front of me and I was like, okay, well I'm definitely not at the very beginning, but I'm probably not where I could be and where could I find, where could I land?
[00:09:54] Danielle Ireland: Mm-hmm. Where is my Life of And? mm-hmm. Moment in that. And, but I kept all of that so insular and, and, and inside and so. You inviting and seeing that in others has been such a gift, and it's a gift that you're still
[00:10:08] Tiffany Sauder: offering here on your podcast. So I'm curious for you being, I, I experience you like wildly intuitive super emotions first in the way that you experience the world.
[00:10:17] Tiffany Sauder: So I, on the other hand, have to work really hard to tap, like I'm, I can become a machine, feel no pain, I feel no earth, I feel no air. And just like do the things. So what is, like, what does achievement, motivation, goal setting like, what does that look like and feel like in your body versus, like, for me, 'cause I'm like, this would be the goal.
[00:10:39] Tiffany Sauder: It would be explicit. It would be defined. I would have a plan and I'm like, I think you would, you would melt.
[00:10:45] Danielle Ireland: Yeah. Yeah. It's, that's what I felt like, I like Olaf from Frozen and I, I would just mouth into rebuttal.
[00:10:51] Tiffany Sauder: So what does that like, feel like and look like for you?
[00:10:53] Danielle Ireland: I've really wrestled with. And I could say wrestling.
[00:10:56] Danielle Ireland: You mentioned wrestling a bear. I've actually written in shoulders, book code wrestling a walrus from little people with big feelings. There is something about the language of wrestling that I really think is appropriate for this, and we'll talk about that more. But my journey over the last 10 years has been really.
[00:11:10] Danielle Ireland: Finding integrity and embracing what's true about me. And I would say that the feeler, intuitive perceiver part was something I rejected for a long time. And what that resulted in was trying on different identities, like an outfit that fit poorly, but I could get buy-in. Mm-hmm. So I worked as a ballroom dance instructor for seven years.
[00:11:31] Danielle Ireland: I knew what my goals were. I knew what my schedule was. I knew what my training schedule was to improve my own dancing. And before that, I worked as a commercial actor. So I was working at 13, um, on commercial sets until I was 24. And so like the, I did a spot for the Walking Dead, which was the, the highlight of my same in my career.
[00:11:49] Danielle Ireland: Yeah. And, and these different seasons and chapters, what I found was, oh, this is something that I like and something I can do. And so let me just see how far I can take that. Mm-hmm. And so I would create goals and I would build relationships, and then I would get to this point that I could only describe as like buzzy, where I would see, oh, if I really want to build a life with this path that I've chosen.
[00:12:18] Danielle Ireland: The things that I would have to do, I realized I didn't care about it enough to really sacrifice mm-hmm. For it. And it wasn't until I met my now husband when I was teaching dance that the process of meeting him and loving him, it was, I, I recognized, oh, if I go down this path of kind of skipping and not really examining what matters to me and I.
[00:12:42] Danielle Ireland: Make a, like with this person, I will lose myself from this person, and so I, I would make my life about them. Mm. And I was terrified. It was like equal points, which usually happens in like a therapeutic breakthrough. Mm-hmm. Usually ahas also lend to a fuck because you're like, aha, I've got it. Mm-hmm. Oh no.
[00:13:00] Danielle Ireland: Now I have to do something. And so meeting him was in many different versions, both of those things, toggling back and forth, and I recognized that. To build a life with the person I wanna build it with. I need to build a life. And I hadn't really done the internal examination or investigating of what mattered to me.
[00:13:23] Danielle Ireland: Mm-hmm. And how to make that a priority. I just sort of followed, someone said, told me I was good at something, and I think. My desire to please and my desire to be good. I, I wanted to be seen as like shiny and special and so, oh, I can adopt this identity and really execute. I'll be really good at this.
[00:13:41] Tiffany Sauder: Yeah.
[00:13:41] Danielle Ireland: But being a people pleaser only can take you so far before it leads to burnout or it leads to overall anxiety because again, it's just not, it's not my skin suit. Mm-hmm. And so over the course of. Once I made that realization, it was about a three year process of trying and failing and, and I like to think failing forward, but I tried different jobs and finally it led me to the place where I realized I needed to go back to school.
[00:14:07] Danielle Ireland: I wanna be a therapist. And then that recognition and my biological clock and my desire to start a family mm-hmm. Started to inch together around the same time. And so I would say for the first time in my life, I started to experience more intense emotional responses. Like I, I think I, I was in, in true anxiety and I had true bouts of depression, and I was incredibly burnt out, and I was just fueled by.
[00:14:33] Danielle Ireland: Succeeding not failing. And so to bring that back to your question of what is it like to set goals and how do I hold space for that? Now I'm gonna say I'm still learning it. Mm-hmm. Because I recognize that not having a plan means you don't get anywhere. Right. It's like, if I wanna get to California, I'm probably gonna need, and I'm gonna use a car.
[00:14:52] Danielle Ireland: There's thi there's actual logistical things and that have to figure out. But what I'm embracing. Now in this stage of life is really getting clear on my why first, and really paying attention to how I feel first. Mm-hmm. Before I say yes, before I say no, and before I try to execute a plan, because most of my life, all of my teens and twenties was adopting somebody else's plan for me first.
[00:15:18] Danielle Ireland: And I didn't know until I was already like at the destination that I realized, oh, this was never my plan.
[00:15:24] Tiffany Sauder: Mm-hmm.
[00:15:25] Danielle Ireland: And then I would feel the consequences of that. And so I'm, I'm learning that in real time.
[00:15:30] Tiffany Sauder: Yeah. So, so I actually wanna tie this back to when you and I first started talking about Life of And, and I shared with you, here's kind of my personas.
[00:15:38] Tiffany Sauder: I have like the young mom who's 37, 27, 37, that. Said, Hey, I wanna go to college. I wanted to be a, you know, get in a leadership role, a job I loved, marry somebody that I was crazy about, start a family, buy a house. It's like I did all these things. And then I have my other persona who's more like my life stage, where it's like, okay, my kids are, you know, I know the plan is set.
[00:16:01] Tiffany Sauder: We know how many kids we're gonna have. I don't know what jobs we're gonna have, but life is moving really fast because we've said yes to so many things. And I said, I got to a place in my life where I had done all the things I set out to do. And my life felt like a prison. Just kind of what you're saying too, it's like talk a little bit about that.
[00:16:19] Tiffany Sauder: Like how, how could I have created a trap for myself? These are all the things I wanted and worked for and prayed for and thought that I was gonna love and now I don't. Why doesn't it feel so great? Can you talk a little bit about that? Because I have to believe that that moment you and I both found, I also think it's so interesting that you were able to discern.
[00:16:42] Tiffany Sauder: In your journey of, it wasn't that David was trying to force his life onto you, it was the fact that it was a vortex for you. Yeah. That his strength would fill if you weren't clear on that. That's so, that's a very nuanced point of discernment at a very vulnerable place in life. Well, and I'll even take,
[00:17:00] Danielle Ireland: I'll take the, the honesty a step further.
[00:17:01] Danielle Ireland: We were together. And then he broke up with me and we were apart for a period of time. And it was in his absence, I felt the void. Mm. I realized, oh, he was just emotionally filling all the gaps that I haven't looked at. Mm. And I, it was, it was hard at the time, but I, I'm now for both of us in many ways, so grateful.
[00:17:23] Danielle Ireland: 'cause had that not happened, I don't think I would've really reconciled with what I had yet to do for myself. Mm-hmm. And. So I, I appreciate you acknowledging that. The, could you go back to your question? Yeah. So
[00:17:36] Tiffany Sauder: my question was this idea of we've, we have done, we've done everything right. We've done all this stuff.
[00:17:41] Tiffany Sauder: Why don't we feel good? Why doesn't it feel good? Why? Yeah. We create these prisons, these cages for ourselves.
[00:17:47] Danielle Ireland: I think it's most, most often I see it as one of two things. The second is, I think, just true of evolving and growing, is that it is. Natural. I think so many times I see women in particular shut themselves down for, um, wanting more.
[00:18:09] Danielle Ireland: I have so much. What? Why? Why should I possibly want more? Why? Why would I ask for more? I have enough. I have more than I need. I have more than so many. And this sense of sort of measuring against an announced state of lack, I think growth. An evolution and change are inevitable and they're natural and we judge ourselves for wanting more, asking for more.
[00:18:35] Danielle Ireland: And I, so I think that that is part of it, or it's often one of the two elements, which is life has introduced more life. And as I see what is now available to me, I'm introduced to new flavors, new spices, my tastes are changing. Mm-hmm. And. What is the relationship with allowing that evolution to happen?
[00:18:57] Danielle Ireland: Is it okay for me to want something different now than I wanted 10 years ago? Is it okay for me to change my mind? And then the other? The other, can we stick there for a second? Can we remember the other one?
[00:19:07] Tiffany Sauder: I think in that scenario, I think it is exactly right. Women have a hard time, but I think we have a hard time leaving behind.
[00:19:16] Tiffany Sauder: Some of what's required for us to move forward. Do you know what I mean? Because there are, and so it becomes this additive journey of every person, every place, every tribe, every Yes. Moves forward with us instead of us having the courage to edit some things out to make room for the new. And then I think we get scared of the new because it just feels like more,
[00:19:38] Danielle Ireland: does that make sense?
[00:19:39] Danielle Ireland: Yeah. The fear of either, if I, if I admit to this change. And I embrace this change, there will be something I lose. I think that that sometimes thinking of like metaphorically like moving into a new home, maybe you move it to a new home and there's a lot of editing that has to happen. Mm-hmm. Just to make the packing more manageable and then you get into the new space and you realize, oh, this furniture doesn't quite work in this room.
[00:20:02] Danielle Ireland: The way that there, there is some discomfort and change. Yeah. But I think acknowledging it as a part of change, not a character flaw is really been really helpful to. Rightsize the emotional confusion. Because otherwise what we can look at is I'm abandoning someone. Mm-hmm. I'm quitting a job, I'm abandoning the team.
[00:20:22] Danielle Ireland: I am leaving a marriage. I am destroying my family. Mm-hmm. And I think if you can hold space for what is true and what is also kind to you, because in my experience, like I don't work with narcissists mostly 'cause narcissists don't actually come to therapy. What I, who I work with are people who deeply care about.
[00:20:42] Danielle Ireland: Their life. They deeply care about the people in their life and they're trying to figure out, how can I fit in that too? Mm-hmm. How can I make myself matter as much as the other things that I love? Mm-hmm. And so when you can acknowledge if, if I'm in my integrity and I know that this choice is right for me, and I know that it will have an impact on people, am I destroying something?
[00:21:06] Danielle Ireland: Am I abandoning something or am I in the confusing, challenging? State of change. Mm-hmm. And it's kind of like we can see and look back, you know, at our, you know, preteens and our adolescence, puberty is hard. Mm-hmm. Puberty is so hard. But we can see that from where we sit now and we can recognize that as temporary in a really hard growth edge.
[00:21:31] Danielle Ireland: Yeah. But we don't know that when we're in it. And so sometimes when we're in it. It may be helpful to gain a perspective outside of ourselves, which I have found in my own meditative and journaling practice I have found in community. Mm-hmm. And I've also found in friends or coaching. So sometimes I think when you're in those like dark night of the soul moments, when you're trying to face a hard choice, finding good counsel and a safe space to let everything be true can be really helpful.
[00:21:59] Tiffany Sauder: Yeah. So you were saying don't let the discomfort be a. Character flaw. Understand it is a condition of change. Yeah. And I think other people's change, there have been times when other people's lives have been asked to move in different places. I mean, even my sister, their family was here for a few ti years and then were called back over to Arizona.
[00:22:20] Tiffany Sauder: And for a while I processed that very personally. You know what I mean? And it's like, I think sometimes our own reactions to people's growth and change can hold them back. Unknowingly, I'm sure when you left the ballroom community, that is a, I don't know it, but I watch it on TV sometimes. That is a tribal thing and it's your whole life.
[00:22:41] Tiffany Sauder: Yes. It's your whole, I mean, had
[00:22:43] Danielle Ireland: to be a huge deal. I'd say 90% of my social group, I mean, yeah, it, it is, is um, a lot, but I think that your discomfort will not let you forget it. Mm-hmm. So. You know, I had maybe the knowing long before I was ready to act on it, I would have that feeling and I would swallow that discomfort.
[00:23:03] Danielle Ireland: It's like the pill, like those rough, big pills that kind of
[00:23:06] Tiffany Sauder: feel like literally I can feel it. So, come on. Come on.
[00:23:10] Danielle Ireland: Yes, we can swallow our own discomfort for a long time. Yeah. And particularly if we're high achieving people, pleasing, codependent, recovering. You know, eldest child, like whatever, kitschy, zeitgeist, mental health term that is on TAC right now.
[00:23:23] Danielle Ireland: All of those things are true. By the way, I'm not pooping that. I know. I pretty much just got the trifecta office saying you're yes, like our tolerance and our resilience to handle our own discomfort, especially if we're, you know, athletes or, you know, all the, all of the grit. You know, in the culture speaks to, well, this is hard and this feels hard.
[00:23:42] Danielle Ireland: And hard means I must be doing something right. So I'll just keep going. And I think that's oftentimes why we have breakdowns before we have breakthroughs. And my hope, my sincere hope, is that I can help make that process a little less intense, maybe a little gentler. Mm-hmm. Maybe have a softer landing.
[00:23:59] Danielle Ireland: It doesn't mean there isn't effort involved or that it isn't hard. Yeah. But. If you can tolerate discomfort for a while, you may have a recognition three years before anybody to act on it. And this is, I think, more through a therapeutic lens and through a family systems lens or an internal family systems lens that we come into the world solely focused on our own comfort.
[00:24:22] Danielle Ireland: So babies, their first impulse is comfort, discomfort. It's, they recognize, I'm hungry, I'm full. Mm-hmm. I, I'm hot and or I'm cold. And now my temperature is regulated. I feel. I'm uncomfortable and now I'm feeling touched and I'm feeling held, and I'm feeling soothed and I'm good. That's how we all come into the world.
[00:24:42] Danielle Ireland: It's always the same. Comfort, discomfort, pain, the absence of pain, and from that lens, children become as they. Just continue to mature and grow. They're highly focused on themselves, what they want, what they like, what they don't like, what they wanna identify. Things in the world. And it's somewhere, for most of us, it is somewhere in like early adolescence we start to, and probably even sooner, but we start to go from looking in to decide, I feel hungry, I'll ask for what I want.
[00:25:14] Danielle Ireland: Mm-hmm. Or I feel lonely, I'll declare that. Allowed to adopting the rules of culture. So it could be a family culture, it could be a, a school culture. It could be an athletic culture, but there are rules. Of the culture and the culture, it exists by conformity to the rules. Mm-hmm. And essentially, so like rules about money, rules about your body, what's okay to talk about what's not okay to talk about, um, what's okay to wear, what's not okay to wear.
[00:25:43] Danielle Ireland: Mm-hmm. And, and that's also not, that also is how we learn good skills too. Mm-hmm. This is, this is, the process is not a judgment of the process, but acknowledging that it exists is helpful. Mm-hmm. Because what happens is as we're moving through the world and we're having our internal experience. We're gauging how, okay, that experience is based on how the world responds to us.
[00:26:03] Danielle Ireland: So what you get rewarded for at home, what you get punished for at home, what you get rewarded for at school, what you get punished for at school. And so a lot of high achievers, they get their dopamine hit, their serotonin, their oxytocin, all of the lovely, delicious things that flood our brain and body that tell us we're safe and we're lovable and worthy are rewards from effort.
[00:26:22] Danielle Ireland: And that's a really, that's a gross oversimplification, but I think it highlights the point that. Our barometer for how good we are, how okay we are, and what we should do becomes externalized. And so that model works to a point until it doesn't. Mm-hmm. And I think that it's okay whenever we kind of get hit with the knowledge of, oh, the way I've been operating just isn't working for me anymore.
[00:26:45] Danielle Ireland: Mm-hmm. And of course this is easier for me to say, 'cause I've done it, I've done it, not the way that I'm describing it. Only about a hundred million times. But if you could identify, oh, this is a way that I've been operating in the world. It's no longer serving me. I wonder if I could reflect on that if only it were that easy.
[00:27:02] Danielle Ireland: Yeah. Right. But that it is that simple. It's just that easy.
[00:27:07] Tiffany Sauder: I wanna take a quick moment to thank my partners at Share Your Genius. For the past four years, they have been an incredible part of my journey behind the microphone. Share Your Genius is a content and podcast production agency that helps leaders and brands bring their message to life.
[00:27:21] Tiffany Sauder: So whether you're trying to find your voice, develop a content strategy, or get your leader behind a microphone, they're gonna help you make it simple, strategic, and impactful. Well, you use the vocabulary of egos, egos driven decision making versus values driven decision making. When we talked last time, and even in your own story as you were talking about chasing the achieving.
[00:27:44] Tiffany Sauder: Then realizing this is not, I'm not willing to make some of these compromises that the next step is gonna require. And I think that parallels to what you were just talking about there too, which is like when we get to a place where we're so driven by the external, that we lose sight of the internal. And I think these pauses of confusion, pauses of, I don't know what I want to do next.
[00:28:12] Tiffany Sauder: Are so uncomfortable as an adult because they could be three days, three weeks, three months. Like we, we don't know. And so we're sitting in this place where we need to earn money. We need to feel confident in our answers and saying, I'm unclear, I'm not sure. I'm trying to understand that. Is that kind of, it's awkward.
[00:28:34] Tiffany Sauder: And so we look for like what you're saying, feedback from the outside world of like, well, what am I good at? Because that is maybe going to answer. That question, and then I think we can get to this place where, yeah, our, our egos are what, and I, I got to that same place in my life where it was like what the agency was gonna require of me for us to grow it to the next level.
[00:28:56] Tiffany Sauder: I think I could have done it, but I, in my heart of hearts, know the leader in place now is better for this stretch of growth. I'm so good at the beginning. My family was getting to the place where I wanted to be available for them differently than what being in a service business was gonna allow me to do.
[00:29:13] Tiffany Sauder: And I felt like a quitter in saying that. Like I've been known for being tough and kind of a warrior and like a, you know, like. Doing the things, and I'm like, I don't wanna quit on everybody. I don't want, but that was my own narrative. It's like growing out of the way. It's kind of how I explain it to myself.
[00:29:31] Tiffany Sauder: I needed to grow out of the way.
[00:29:33] Danielle Ireland: Well, and I think like a, a question that I would introduce to that story is, what were you quitting? Because I think that every, I, I say failing forward, but there's probably a better and kinder way to acknowledge that. I don't look at the. Though it makes it, it, it can certainly sound like these stark jumps of I did this and then I did this, and now I do this and now I do this.
[00:29:58] Danielle Ireland: But the common denominator with all of those things with that with is me. And it's the same with relationships, dating history, friendships. I'm the common thread to all of those things. So letting the outside world inform, I think is also a part of it is an, it's an interdependent co-created thing like you.
[00:30:20] Danielle Ireland: Particularly when we're talking about relationships that really matter to you. And so it's like it's all filtering back information. It's all filtering back information, and it's just informing the next best step for you and I, I think that if commitment and follow through meant staying the same, then maybe in that regard you did.
[00:30:43] Danielle Ireland: If I could be so golden as to say you did quit. Mm-hmm. Or you did shale, but I think what I hear you say is not that it's. I got more clear on what my priorities were. I got more clear on what mattered. I got more clear on how I wanted to show up and how I could best serve, and that's what I'm moving into.
[00:31:02] Danielle Ireland: And in order to do that, there's something I have to say goodbye to. Mm-hmm. The truth. I believe the truth in its highest expression is always kind. And when the truth is delivered with a critical lens or a judgmental lens, it's something other than truth. It's self-judgment, it's shame. Mm-hmm. And there's, there's always something rooted beneath that.
[00:31:19] Danielle Ireland: Always.
[00:31:21] Tiffany Sauder: I think for me it was at times hard to discern. Loyalty is a big, a big part of my personality and a big thing that I value in others. And I think discerning the loyalty aspect of my personality. And I think the other part of it is when you do something for a long time, you have to show up on days you don't want to.
[00:31:42] Tiffany Sauder: And discerning what was like, my spirit is uncomfortable versus I'm just tired and it's been a long week. You, you know what I mean? Like discerning that.
[00:31:53] Danielle Ireland: Yeah. That's such a great point. Such a great point. 'cause like, yeah. What is the discomfort of. A Wednesday and not getting as much sleep as I wanted.
[00:32:01] Danielle Ireland: Mm-hmm. And just like not feeling my best and my inner knowing, guiding me down. Yeah. Right, right. It's like they're, they sometimes feel real, a lot like the same way. And sometimes it's a matter of, okay, I'm feeling this feeling, I'm gonna acknowledge it. I'm gonna move into my day. I, I like to advise people to take stock of what happens before, during, and after.
[00:32:19] Danielle Ireland: Mm-hmm. So allow all of those things to be true. So I'm using the gym is an over overusing metaphor probably. But it, it makes sense. Like sometimes I don't always wanna go. But then I get there and I start moving and I'm like, oh, okay. This feels good. I like the way my body's feeling when I do this. I might feel amazing after.
[00:32:35] Danielle Ireland: Mm-hmm. I'm gonna take all that information into consideration. Oh, I was probably just tired. Or maybe I just, I wasn't really feeling it, but I'm so glad I did it. Mm-hmm. The difference with that, like soul sucking, need to do some reevaluating, Life of And-ing. I am dreading it. Ahead. I feel miserable while I'm doing it.
[00:32:53] Danielle Ireland: I feel so drained. I need a whole day to recover, but I probably don't give myself that day to recover. And so what I do is I grab an extra glass of wine and a bag of chocolate. I stop at Trader Joes's. I grab snacks I don't need. Mm-hmm. And then I over caffeinate the next day. 'cause I feel so guilty about what I did.
[00:33:07] Danielle Ireland: Like there are choices and consequences and feelings that won't leave you alone when it's the other thing. Mm-hmm. Because I think emotions are temporary. Yep. Emotions are temporary and they come and go. When they persist, that is really something to pay attention to. Yeah. And so to your point, if one bad day is one bad day, it's one bad day.
[00:33:27] Danielle Ireland: Yep. But if one bad day is a bad year
[00:33:30] Tiffany Sauder: mm-hmm.
[00:33:31] Danielle Ireland: If it's leading to other, and a lot of times people don't recognize what they're, what's really going on until they have physical health complications. Like you never know what's gonna bring you to your knees sometimes.
[00:33:41] Tiffany Sauder: Yeah. Mine was not as like visceral as it relates to my.
[00:33:46] Tiffany Sauder: My physical response to it. But I think what showed up for me was I started to find when I was like, okay, these are the biggest issues I need to solve in the business. Mm-hmm. I would start dreaming of other things. It's like I couldn't get my brain to do it. Yeah. And then I was losing my confidence and I was like, maybe I'm not the right person, and which is okay.
[00:34:08] Tiffany Sauder: And then I started to say, maybe that's just true. Mm-hmm. Maybe I can, I can get there. I am good at bringing other people in and all the things that need to happen. But that was my biggest thing, was like I found I wasn't able to get my brain. To sit on the biggest problems I needed to solve. And that was kind of a clue to me.
[00:34:27] Tiffany Sauder: 'cause I had solved a lot of really hard problems I dealt with, I'd led the business through some really hard times. And so it wasn't that I was afraid of the war, I was like, I think that maybe I'm not the right general for this. And that was uncomfortable at the beginning. 'cause it's like, well, my job is to kind of know.
[00:34:46] Tiffany Sauder: And I was like, well, I think my job is just to solve it. That doesn't need to be with me.
[00:34:49] Danielle Ireland: You know, something just occurred to me as you were talking about that, that I think there's the internal process and then the external thing that we see, it's like the difference between reading a novel and watching a movie.
[00:34:59] Danielle Ireland: So the behavior on the outside is you step away from a job. Mm-hmm. If my internal compass is the loyalty is everything and follow through is paramount and you, you must follow through the commitments and do what you said you were gonna do. Mm-hmm. But I'm gonna look at your behavior. I'm gonna say, Ooh, quit should quit.
[00:35:12] Danielle Ireland: Mm-hmm. But if I'm in. The novel of your life, which only can be known by you 'cause you're the only thinker in your mind, no one else can get in there. Mm-hmm. You are knowing what you're feeling, what you're perceiving, how, how you're relating to people, how it's affecting the choices you're making, how it's affecting your energy.
[00:35:29] Danielle Ireland: Like that is an internal knowing that is in your integrity. It's in line with your values. It's moving you in the direction that makes you feel more alive and less dead inside. Mm-hmm. That is not quitting. But I think that that is oftentimes where there is confusion of either perception. Or what we see modeled in someone else, we have no idea.
[00:35:51] Danielle Ireland: Mm-hmm. We have no idea. I, I often say, I often say because my life felt like kind of hopping from lily pad, that lily pad so many times that I envied people who sort of went to school, knew they wanted to be a doctor, went to medical school, got a medical degree, and other doctors like I'm saying that like, it's so easy.
[00:36:07] Danielle Ireland: Yeah. Right. I have your friends who
[00:36:08] Tiffany Sauder: are doctors, they'd be
[00:36:09] Danielle Ireland: like,
[00:36:09] Tiffany Sauder: Danielle. Totally. And then you get closer and their novel sounds much different. Yeah, that's right. Yeah.
[00:36:15] Danielle Ireland: But I, um, I, yes, I, I feel like, um, Elizabeth Gilbert has this great metaphor that there are many people who are pollinators and, um, I think she calls 'em like jackhammers.
[00:36:25] Danielle Ireland: And so pollinators, they hop from flower to flower, you know, and they just help, they help propagate, you know, all these beautiful plants and, and it's so important for nature. And then there's some people that just drill down and just continue to chip away at that thing that they do so well. And I think the part of my, something that is true of me that I'm learning to embrace is that I think our culture rewards the people who really drill down.
[00:36:49] Danielle Ireland: And I am more of a pollinator. Mm-hmm. And also, I think through the process of letting myself sample and try, I'm finding the things that I'm willing, like the efforting in the service of therapeutic work, efforting in the service of making creative projects that I believe in efforting in the service of my podcast.
[00:37:09] Danielle Ireland: That is an effort that I feel like when I'm tired and don't have the energy, there's a little extra fuel in the tank that I'm ready to give to that. And so I think going back to this idea of so much of what we're talking about is really about saying goodbye to something or recognizing what's not working, but it, the more attuned you get to this emotional body, you can also feel when you become more alive mm-hmm.
[00:37:31] Danielle Ireland: When something is working and cylinders are firing. Mm-hmm. And, and often it feels like, I don't know what this is, but I. I, I want this. Mm-hmm. It's, it's like you're kind of, were taking a detour. You don't know if it's a scenic bra or a dead end, but you're like, God, that feels so good. Mm-hmm. And it, it leads you somewhere better ultimately.
[00:37:48] Tiffany Sauder: Mm-hmm. Totally.
[00:37:49] Danielle Ireland: Yeah.
[00:37:50] Tiffany Sauder: Um, can we take a detour about something we talked about last time? That has been something I have been ever repeated this a dozen times to someone else being like, do you know what I just learned? We have to be willing to allow our kids to cross over the threshold of discomfort. Do you remember talking about this?
[00:38:09] Tiffany Sauder: She's looking at me like it's the first time she's ever heard it. I've literally said it so many times. Okay. This is what you, I want you to explain it. I'll tell you how I remember it and then maybe you'll be like, I don't know, maybe I'm sure. So I was talking about how oftentimes our kids' reactions can be the things that determine our choices as a parent.
[00:38:29] Tiffany Sauder: So I was saying when I would leave to go overnight. My kids would be like, well, we don't want you to go, we don't want you to go, we don't want you to go. It's like, so a Life of Or, for me is like, okay, traveling's too hard. I'm not gonna do it. I'm gonna travel zero nights a year. Well, that doesn't totally work for the speed of what I would like to take in my own life and like goals I want to, um, like achieve.
[00:38:56] Tiffany Sauder: But also I know going and writing a book and like doing a book tour where I'm on the road. 60 nights a year is probably not the time to do that. So between zero and writing a book, how can I make an explicit agreement with my family? And mine is like 12 nights a year. I don't count when JR. And I go away.
[00:39:16] Tiffany Sauder: 'cause I think that's like in service to them. Sorry for your luck. You'll, you'll understand later that that's in service to you. Totally. It's in service to us for sure. But traveling for work, I try to keep that to one. I kinda like on the whole one night a month. It doesn't fall that way, but it's sort of like, look, there's gonna be times when I'm gone a couple nights, times when I'm not gone all month long.
[00:39:37] Danielle Ireland: Yeah.
[00:39:37] Tiffany Sauder: So I've created that agreement with my kids. You said, as parents, we have to allow our kids to cross this threshold of discomfort because otherwise they never understand my paraphrase, that there's not a monster on the other side. The actually amazing things can happen. You can have a great time with the world's best sitter.
[00:39:57] Tiffany Sauder: You guys can go. Have ice cream at 10:00 PM you can take a golf cart ride under the stars. I don't know. All kinds of things that can happen when mom's not home. Yeah. So you, and you explain a little bit, but, but this idea of a threshold of discomfort. I'll tell one more story and then I'll actually let you talk.
[00:40:12] Tiffany Sauder: I was getting ready to leave and she, she was laying in bed. It's at night. Everybody feels vulnerable when they're being put to bed and there's nothing more precious than sitting with your kid and them, you know, seeing you as like the most important thing. And I, she's like, do you really have to go tomorrow, mom?
[00:40:28] Tiffany Sauder: I said, what do you think could happen while I'm away? You told me to do this. And I said, what do you think could happen? And she paused and had like one bad thing and then like eight good things. I was like, so what do you think is gonna happen while mom is away? Like, do you think it could actually be super fun?
[00:40:54] Tiffany Sauder: Do you think it could actually? And she's like, I guess it could be. So I said, well, I'm gonna leave tomorrow morning and then I'm gonna come back and then we're gonna talk about what happened. And she and I got back, I was like, it was so amazing. She never texted me a single time I was gone for 72 hours.
[00:41:10] Tiffany Sauder: You know, it was like, like literally time went so fast. She's like, we had so much fun. It didn't even seem like you were gone. Like it was great. All the things. But again, what you taught me was you have to. Let them cross into that threshold of discomfort, because otherwise we train them as teenagers to not step into it.
[00:41:25] Tiffany Sauder: We train them as young adults to not step into it and becomes this abyss. So
[00:41:29] Danielle Ireland: yes, no, no. That's teaching your lesson, but what is the thing? No, you're not. What I'm hearing back, actually, I don't, I'm not so much hearing my words, but I'm hearing your interpretation of whatever I said, and I love what you're saying.
[00:41:41] Danielle Ireland: It's so good. It's so great. Like, however, however, it, it came out, however it was en embodied by you. Like that's gorgeous. Um, is this the right thing to do from a clinical perspective? Am I doing it right? Am I doing right? You got the gold star. That's right. Can you please feed my ego? Yes. Oh well, no, no.
[00:41:58] Danielle Ireland: It's unvalidated you. Yes. Yeah, that's okay. And also like the ego is a bad rap. There's also, it exists, so we gotta just embrace it. But so what I. Have found is that I can't give my kids what I don't have, and a big part of my, I'll just use my creative journey. Every time I approach new technology, I get something I jokingly, lovingly call tech sweat.
[00:42:23] Danielle Ireland: Because what I'm confronting every time is my, my internalized belief that I'm not good at it. Mm-hmm. That's gonna take me too long, that I'm gonna waste too much time. That, and I might as well just stop. And like you said, I'm, you mentioned in a story before, like, I'm just gonna distract myself rather than do the thing I need to do.
[00:42:38] Tiffany Sauder: Amen.
[00:42:39] Danielle Ireland: And so. Over the course of, and whether it was performing or dancing or applying to grad school, like side note, I didn't have all the credits I needed to even qualify to apply, so I had to do a whole semester of school to get the science credits I needed to even qualify for the application. So it was, I was confronting so much.
[00:42:59] Danielle Ireland: Luck and scarcity and boards am am I doing this too late? And so, but every time what I learned is that confidence is always, in hindsight, it's earned through facing discomfort and being able to say, I did it. And so what I want is to give that in whatever way that I can without making it about me, but I wanna give that to my kids.
[00:43:20] Danielle Ireland: Mm-hmm. And so what cultivating resilience is essentially saying. Your feelings make sense and you're capable with holding them. I believe in your ability to meet this feeling and hold it and acknowledge it, and I'm not leaving you. I think sometimes that that, like, especially if you have an anxiously, if you have an anxiously attached child or if you have an anxious attachment style, what can be really helpful is saying, this is when I'm gonna be gone, and this is when I'm gonna be back.
[00:43:46] Danielle Ireland: This is how you can reach me. So you're not abandoning them. Mm-hmm. You're just not giving them what they think they need, which is for you to abandon yourself so that they don't feel uncomfortable. I am not gonna abandon myself to alleviate your discomfort. I'm gonna choose me while still loving you.
[00:44:00] Tiffany Sauder: I mean, we need to say it again for the people in the back 'cause that is so hard.
[00:44:04] Tiffany Sauder: I'm not gonna abandon my own needs to be able to serve and be here for you. That is so countercultural. I, I have seen it play out so productively in my life that I feel like I get there faster now than I did 10 years ago. And I think when you talk about it and being, as being in service to cultivating confidence in your kids, it gives it.
[00:44:29] Tiffany Sauder: It makes, it, gives it sense, you know what I mean? Versus selfishness, right? Yeah. And it's, yeah, because it can be interpreted that way, and it's certainly
[00:44:36] Danielle Ireland: never intended to be flippant or like, listen, I need to do, it's not meant to be snappy. No. Or snarky or, or, or bought, like all the language that is really used, I think to weaponize against women advocating, but it's never intended that way.
[00:44:51] Danielle Ireland: I, I always go back to the, the language I repeat in my mind. I don't know how many times a day, probably too many is. Where is the truth and the most kind? Like where is that Venn diagram of truth and kindness? Mm-hmm. Because I'm only able to really know when I'm moving in service in the way that we're talking.
[00:45:11] Danielle Ireland: 'cause if I, there'll be times where I'm not really sure what the answer is, and maybe I'll say the yes, that maybe should have been a no. And almost as soon as I'm in that moment, I'll feel that recognition of, oh dang it, I did the thing. I said yes to a commitment. I really. Shouldn't have said yes to.
[00:45:28] Danielle Ireland: Mm-hmm. Or I, you know, gave in for the extra 15 minute I, I I gave into an extra bluey episode knowing that she's gonna be more tired afterwards. Mm-hmm. I'm, I'm gonna pay the consequence of that. Like, it's not of getting it right every time, but if you can identify through your experience of this is the right kind of hard, this is the kind of discomfort that I feel.
[00:45:51] Danielle Ireland: You know, doing a good rep and a hard workout that's gonna really benefit me. Mm-hmm. But it's such an internal, like that's the novel. Mm-hmm. Not the movie. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I can't montage my way through the discomfort. Only I know, did I just pull a muscle or am I building muscle? Mm-hmm. And so I think that's just through, to be perfectly honest.
[00:46:09] Danielle Ireland: Trial and error. Letting yourself get it wrong, but then just take stock. Mm-hmm. How did it feel? It felt hard to have that conversation with my daughter. It felt hard to see her in pain. I don't like seeing her in pain. And I really feel like doing this thing anyway is still in service of me. And that on the other side of that, oh, I feel really good about going, she felt really good about me, me going mm-hmm.
[00:46:29] Danielle Ireland: That's all information. Mm-hmm. Versus, you know, sometimes that sometimes honoring yourself may be saying no to the commitment and saying yes to the family. Mm-hmm.
[00:46:37] Tiffany Sauder: But only you, no. Mm-hmm.
[00:46:39] Danielle Ireland: It's just, yeah,
[00:46:40] Tiffany Sauder: I had that situation this week where I, when I scheduled a yes on my calendar, I didn't have the full context of some other things that were gonna be added, and so on Sunday night when I was doing my planning meeting, I was like, I can see where the train wreck is gonna happen in our week.
[00:46:58] Tiffany Sauder: We are gonna be relationally unstable by Thursday. Mom's gonna need to be home for a few hours to touch down just because we've got late night. I just know how the week's gonna go. And so I respectfully just pulled myself out of something and said, I just can't with some other things. And so that was a place where I'm sort of saying no in my own space because I know what the kids are gonna need from me.
[00:47:21] Tiffany Sauder: And exactly what you're saying, sometimes you place a yes in an ill. I dunno. Yeah. Like a yeah, an ill-advised way, let's call it, so. Sure. Yeah. Or, or,
[00:47:30] Danielle Ireland: or, I love, I mean, you, you didn't have all the information. Yes. I mean, that is. Oh gosh. Uh, that's probably something that gets me tripped up. More often than not.
[00:47:37] Danielle Ireland: I'm not a fine print reader. Just a little side note that speaks to that, I wanted, so my daughter is really afraid of bugs, or was really afraid of bugs. So I thought, I'm gonna help her, you know, just embrace the fear. I'm gonna buy some caterpillar so that she can really see the whole magical process and flesh forward.
[00:47:54] Danielle Ireland: I ordered 30 caterpillars. I, I, I don't, and just 'cause I didn't read seem
[00:47:59] Tiffany Sauder: like a reasonable number
[00:48:02] Danielle Ireland: I ordered. Yeah. There were way too many caterpillars. Some, yeah, some, you know, found a home under a tree and some stayed in our house all the way to the point where she was able to release them and not crushed them in her hand.
[00:48:13] Danielle Ireland: So we, we got there. But yeah, sometimes leaping before you really look it. It happens. Yeah, totally. You have to negotiate it. Yeah. My therapist has a quote that I can share. Is that like, sometimes it's like walking the cat back where you just, you kind of got into the weeds. Mm-hmm. You're like, I just need to figure out how to get out of this.
[00:48:33] Danielle Ireland: 'cause I.
[00:48:34] Tiffany Sauder: And then just own it. Mm-hmm. Yeah, totally. Okay, so can you share with my listeners what are, what, what, you brought me some lovely gifts. So walk the, walk us through these and then let us know where they can find your pod and stuff.
[00:48:47] Danielle Ireland: Absolutely. Well, so, I mean, danielleireleand.com, if there's anything that.
[00:48:51] Danielle Ireland: You all of this is linked there. So my podcast, my resources, it's all linked there. But this is a journal, it's called Treasured: A Journal for Unearthing You, and it's broken down into seven key areas of your life. I made this originally because I recommended therapy to every client long before I had a resource.
[00:49:08] Danielle Ireland: And they would bring a blank journal in essentially back when I was seeing people in person and they was like, okay, I have it, what do I do with it? Mm-hmm. And so we would create prompts or sentence stems. Quotes, we would create exercises for them to guide and direct their thoughts. 'cause I think a lot of people that don't journal maybe think of journaling as like, dear diary, totally, this is, and it can feel, if it feels like a waste of time, it's not something you're gonna do.
[00:49:32] Danielle Ireland: Mm-hmm. But what I had found is the primary relationship in your life, the one you came in with in order to exit with is the one you have with yourself. And so devoting some time to that internal dialogue because we're having thoughts running through our head all the time. And. Journaling just gives you an opportunity to direct that chatter in a way that you want it to, in a way that works for you.
[00:49:55] Danielle Ireland: So this is broken down into seven key areas of your life, money, career, purpose, love, relationships, family. But also, it doesn't have to be this, but I think for anyone who's ever heard about journaling and thought, maybe I wanna try it, but I don't know what to do, this is really who it's for. Or someone who abandoned a journaling practice and don't know how to pick it up or would like to pick it up in a different way.
[00:50:18] Tiffany Sauder: Amazing. Thank you. I'm so excited about it. Thank you. And have pleasure. And then your children's book. Let's talk about this too,
[00:50:24] Danielle Ireland: too. So, I'm a 4-year-old and a 2-year-old, or almost 2-year-old. He'll be two in about a week. But this is for Wrestling a Walrus.. It's called, it's Wrestling a Walrus: For little people with big feelings.
[00:50:34] Danielle Ireland: And I made this, essentially it is the shortened abridged. Slightly more poetic version of what we talked about, which is I believe in your ability to handle and hold discomfort. Mm-hmm. And what does the process look like when you meet? And seemingly impossible, a movable obstacle. So the walrus is a metaphor for emotions.
[00:50:53] Danielle Ireland: So I'm feeling a really uncomfortable emotion and I don't wanna hold it. And I want the emotion to go away. I want you to change so I don't have to feel the way I'm feeling. So this little penguin wants the walrus to be different, so it doesn't have to feel a discomfort.
[00:51:05] Tiffany Sauder: I want you to change so I don't have to feel what I'm feeling.
[00:51:08] Tiffany Sauder: You need to make me feel power. Oh my word. Yeah. And so, but that's not.
[00:51:12] Danielle Ireland: No, I know that that's not how people are, but that's how, that's what we encourage. It is. It is. It's what we encourage. I mean, we, we do that with our partners. Like, I want you to do this. Mm-hmm. So that I don't have to feel resentment, fear, and blah, blah blah.
[00:51:24] Danielle Ireland: And so this offers a process that you can actually walk through with your littles. And the process of making it was also really beautiful for me too. I have adults who are brought, who come in that they actually really love to. Yeah. I'm excited about
[00:51:35] Tiffany Sauder: it. Thank you so much. So thoughtful you guys. I love also that she's learned about herself, like preparing does not make you better.
[00:51:41] Tiffany Sauder: You're like, I'm intuitive. I just wanna sit in it together. And it frees me to wanna master myself watching you just be like, this is how I work best and I need, I need to operate in that to get the best out of me. And so, anyway, that's inspiring to me. I feel like rubbing against that makes me wanna. Be more curious about myself and likewise, seeing the choices you've
[00:52:01] Danielle Ireland: made and what you've built based on those choices and like what you've been able to create.
[00:52:06] Danielle Ireland: That's inspiring to me. So I need a little taste of that too. Yeah, so happy to be the end of your day.
[00:52:10] Tiffany Sauder: I know, it's very fun. Yeah, I'm really excited. I feel like we're at the beginning of some really cool things here. So Danielle, thank you for sharing your insights with us. Thank you for encouraging us to stand in what we need from our lives.
[00:52:23] Tiffany Sauder: Because everybody wins when we do that.
[00:52:25] Danielle Ireland: A hundred percent. And if anyone wants to hear conversations like this, I do have a podcast where this is essentially all I talk about. It's called Don't Cut Your Own Bangs. So you can hop on over there too.
[00:52:35] Tiffany Sauder: We will link it all in show notes. Thanks so much. Thanks for listening to the Life of And. This is your weekly reminder to keep making bold choices, saying clear yeses and holding space for what matters most.
[00:52:47] Tiffany Sauder: As always, if you like this episode, I'd love for you to drop a review and share it with your friend. It's the fastest way that we can grow the show. Thanks for joining us. I'll see you next time.