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The Being School Podcast delves into the essence of being human through engaging conversations with a diverse array of individuals pursuing interesting endeavors. Through the power of story, this podcast aims to uncover the lessons and insights gained by these individuals, offering inspiration and education for listeners seeking a more meaningful and fulfilling life. Join us as we explore and learn what it means to be the creator of our own lives.
Hunter and Erik Episode 11
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[00:00:00] It takes a lot of energy to overcome that fear. Whereas when I let go of the fear on a particular thing, then I'm clear and I can take decisive action because my mind is clear at that point and that's the positive and I find the more and more that relax and release that I have used it and other people I know is you have more energy to do things you want to,
[00:00:27] That is my friend. And fellow coach Hunter Milligan. And today we're going to talk to him about his coaching technique they use is called relax and release. We're also going to dive into what makes a good coach. And then finally, we're going to talk a little bit about how he's helped me on a personal level and given me one of my biggest insights over the past. Two to three years, I think you're really going to enjoy this conversation.
[00:00:50] Hunter is a great, great guy. I'm excited for you to hear this one sit back, relax and enjoy a conversation between me and my friend, Hunter Milligan.
[00:00:58] Excited to sit down and have [00:01:00] this conversation. Thanks for thanks for being a part of it. I really appreciate it.
[00:01:03] Absolutely. Looking forward to it, Erik, as always. As
[00:01:07] always. Well, you know, I tell you, I could introduce you, but what I'd rather do is give you an opportunity to introduce yourself.
[00:01:15] So how do you like to introduce yourself, Hunter? Put
[00:01:19] me on the spot, Erik. I'm Hunter Milligan.
[00:01:21] I'm a world traveler and father of two. I have a lovely wife and currently I am coaching. I'm helping, engineers learn to process their emotions so they can be calm and clear. And I had 30 years of engineering experience, leading teams, cranking out code, and now. I'm retired from the corporate world, so I'm leaning into this coaching.
[00:01:52] That's fantastic. Well, that's a great intro and it touches on a number of reasons I wanted to have this conversation. First of all, [00:02:00] and foremost, you're a good friend of mine, but these discussions, a lot of what I want to focus on is, different expressions and how, and how people be or show up in the world.
[00:02:09] And I think through your example, you have. Shown a lot of courage in terms of, as you mentioned, from your engineering life and engineering world into kind of now into a little bit bigger transition or into this transition and not to mention everything that you've done with your, your family and your travels.
[00:02:29] let's kind of start there. If that works for you in terms of, you mentioned being an engineer for, 30 years. How did you enjoy that or how did you get into engineering and where did that, where did that start and where did that, where did that progress through your life?
[00:02:43] As a kid, I always liked building things always. And in high school I took a computer class and I was like, man, this is pretty fun. It's basically a puzzle and I enjoyed writing software. And then I went to the University of Colorado [00:03:00] I got an electrical engineering and computer science degree because I love building stuff and writing software.
[00:03:07] And that's what got me into it. And it allowed me to learn a bunch of different domains. I worked in voter registration software for one, worked for. Creating real time systems for navigation systems on the Airbus so that when you fly Airbus airplanes, they land safely. And then, my latest was working in Department of Defense.
[00:03:32] So this is a quite, quite a good ride. So I learned a lot of different things and allowed me to travel. I lived in France for a couple of years working on Airbus, which was pretty darn cool. Right. Yeah. So that's how I got into engineering. That kind of was the path.
[00:03:45] And, and you were in that, you said for 30, 30 plus years, essentially.
[00:03:50] Correct. And then it's just so fascinating. Everyone thinks of engineering is is kind of view this very steady, solid career, which [00:04:00] it is. And then you mentioned you just recently, within the last year or so, transition into full time coaching. What I'm really curious about is kind of the mindset and the courage to make that shift.
[00:04:13] A lot of people kind of gets get stuck in one. You know, they're in this career career trajectory and feel like they have to stick with that. And you Were in that and you decided you know what I am I'm gonna I'm gonna take this this leap So what was kind of your mindset around that? Where do you where do you think you found the courage to?
[00:04:32] To do that because I think a lot of people would like to have that and like to do that What where does that go for you? Yeah,
[00:04:38] it was Thanks for asking that. It was a challenging path. I was, I was looking for something. I enjoyed the engineering and I enjoyed leading teams. But I could see my interest waning about 10 years ago.
[00:04:52] And I thought, well, what is it that I like to do? And I got I basically reached out [00:05:00] to a coach. Never had had a coach before. And I thought, well, try this. See, I'm, I love trying different things and working with the coach. We went through my current job when I was leading teams and the thing we found was that I really like coaching people.
[00:05:17] I've been doing this for 15, 20 years and I really enjoy it. And once I realized that, that that's what I enjoyed doing and that it gave me energy, a lot of the tasks I had were doing in engineering were kind of draining me. Some of them were elevating me, but the coaching is what really elevated me. And I said, huh, let's be kind of fun to do this as a post engineering world.
[00:05:46] And I went back and forth many times, Erik, I wish I could say I made a decision overnight. It took a period of years. To get to basically understand what it meant to be [00:06:00] a better coach and also to get past my fears and doubts and to step into it. So that was kind of my journey.
[00:06:09]
[00:06:10] mentioned that was over a period of years. I'm really curious. And I think a lot of folks are curious about were the questions or what do you think the biggest tools were for you to use in that, that period, even, or even reflecting back now, say as a coach, what do you kind of have your people focus on, or what do you think would be the primary tools that someone should use when kind of struggling with this decision back and forth of, you know, should I make this big shift?
[00:06:39] Should I shouldn't? What should I do? Do you have any thoughts there? I sure do,
[00:06:44] erik. Awesome. Yeah. I, one thing is to what I did with the help of a coach was look at what I enjoyed and leaned into that once we dialed into what I [00:07:00] enjoyed because it's was underneath my nose all the, all the time, but I hadn't really identified it.
[00:07:07] With the help of the coach, I realized that then I used, I'd been doing something called basically the relax and release technique and. That helped me once I decided to be a coach, I had a lot of self doubt, a lot of fear in the unknown, our minds want to keep us safe and continue doing what we have always been doing.
[00:07:29] So I worked with that over a period of years and was able to let go of my fear and doubt. And I pulled the trigger and decided to become a coach. And that was six months ago.
[00:07:42] Well, you're, you're, you mentioned your relax and release. Relax and release technique which I was lucky enough to experience. I had some experience with that. And it's a very, it's a very powerful tool. So for someone that may not be kind of familiar with the concept, what's the, what's [00:08:00] the broad brush picture of relax and release?
[00:08:02] What does that, what does that mean to a lay person? That's completely unfamiliar with it.
[00:08:06] Basically there's two aspects to our, when we think of things, there's the mental aspect, right? Our mind says, I'm going to go do something. And then there's the emotional aspect as analytical people, we're really going to be in our minds and that's safe.
[00:08:23] Relax and release is a process that allows you to feel the feelings and let them go so that when your mind is thinking of doing something when a feeling comes up of self doubt. It's very diminished as in you'll feel it and you'll hear it, but it's on a scale of, let's say 10, 10 being where you start spiraling you can get it down to one or a zero depending upon, and then you can act, take action because you're not dealing with the emotions.
[00:08:58] And so [00:09:00] when did you, I mean, let's be honest, engineers historically have not always been thought as the most kind of touchy feely in touch with your emotions. I, I'm no criticism because I'm not an engineer, but I'm also probably not the most touchy feeling in touch with my emotions kind of person. So I completely get it.
[00:09:17] But what was there a trigger for you? Or was there a spark moment that you that kind of really set you going down this path? Or where did the where did this come from?
[00:09:28] Yeah, good. Good question, Erik. Yeah. So when I was When my son, my oldest son was two years old, he's 22 now, I had just become a lead on a software project and I lost up going in my head and I asked my son, Chase.
[00:09:51] Just stay inside the house while I was mowing the lawn. So I went down, I started mowing the lawn and was lost in all the deadlines and [00:10:00] the people issues, et cetera. And I turned, you know, I was mowing going back and forth and I turned and there was Chase and I felt this absolute, just rage inside me coming out and I said, get inside the house and his eyes.
[00:10:21] It all lit up and he scampered up and I, I just turned off the lawnmower. I was like, what am I doing? I swore my dad used to bottle up his, his frustrations and angers, and then just blow up at the weirdest times. And I swore I was not going to do that. And yet there I was repeating the family pattern and I stopped and I said, I have got to figure this out.
[00:10:51] I don't want to have my boys go through what I went through. And that, so that put me on the path of learning various methods and techniques [00:11:00] and I went down many rabbit holes and I wanted, and I came up with, not came up, but I discovered the relax and release. Method. And that allowed me to face my emotions because let's face it, my anger is an emotion as, as an engineer, I was rather inconvenienced by it, and I tried to outthink it, but I, I tell you what, I out tried to outthink it for 40 years and didn't, didn't quite get there.
[00:11:30] So had to, had to come up with a different approach and that's, that was kinda the genesis.
[00:11:35] No, and that makes a lot of sense. So what, what would you say to someone if, if they're listening and they're like, yeah, I don't know if I'm really in touch with my feelings or I don't, I don't, I don't feel like I have that either anger or whatever emotion come up if, if they're just not paying attention to those things.
[00:11:58] are there some tips or [00:12:00] techniques that you would recommend for, for just someone to start to develop an awareness of how they're maybe feeling or. I know we talk about feeling things in different parts of the body, like what, what would be something for someone that's completely unfamiliar, like how could they start to recognize that emotional feeling if they're not in touch with that?
[00:12:20] Yeah, first of all, I would, I would ask them I was in, let's say I was avoiding my emotions and suppressing them and I was really good at it. And am I perfect now? No, no, I'm not. I'm much better than I used to be. So what I would recommend a person and are they a human being? Yes, thus they have feelings.
[00:12:42] Whether it's anger, it's anxiety, you know, anxiousness, it's fear, it's sadness or some other emotion. But those are the, those are the big three that debilitate all, all of us at times. And we're good at working through it. But I would ask them. [00:13:00] First of all, at the end of the day and just go, did I did fear or anger or sadness kind of overwhelm them at a certain time during the day and some days you won't have that, but other days you will and just ask if it did.
[00:13:19] And once you start becoming aware, awareness is the first step and then start going, where do I feel that in my body or in my head? It's some people feel it in their stomach, other in their chest. Some people feel it in their arms, their. Their thighs, wherever other people, it's more of a pressure in their head.
[00:13:39] They don't feel it externally, but they feel like there's that pressure inside that's just going to explode. So I'd ask people to start becoming aware of that.
[00:13:48] And so just, just kind of sitting down at the end of the day or, or whenever, or I guess in a moment, if you get, if, if a situation like with your son, maybe [00:14:00] it's not quite that big a reaction, but if, if you have a reaction that maybe feels outsized.
[00:14:06] Like that's a good time to get curious. It sounds,
[00:14:08] yeah, that, that is a good time. And a lot of times when you're in the moment you're not really aware of it. You just react, you've always reacted that way. And that's why it's good at the end of the day to kind of scan back. If you can do it in the moment, like you're suggesting, that's fabulous.
[00:14:25] When I first started, I found that it was usually upon retrospect. I was like, Oh, okay. I got anger, angry, or I was like fearful or sad at particular instances during the day. And then I started becoming aware during the day of my emotions. And after I started to become aware of it, I was like, Wow, I have emotions all over the place.
[00:14:50] And that's what people go through, right? Ignore them for a long time, and then they become, once you become aware of them, they, we're human beings. We have a lot of [00:15:00] emotions.
[00:15:01] Yeah, and I think you touched on something there I don't know if it's like people don't want to admit, or it's just uncomfortable initially.
[00:15:11] as a human being, by default,you have emotions. It's not something you can choose to have or not have. I mean, you, you have to have them. So if you're not recognizing them or you don't quote unquote feel them, that's a, that's kind of a flag in and of itself.
[00:15:31] That is true. And I used to be that way.
[00:15:34] And we get good. Yeah. We get very good at we get very good at if it even comes close to emotion. Let's say with me, anger or fear, I was very good at either changing the conversation or changing the situation and basically avoiding it. And we all are masters at avoiding certain emotions and especially in society, [00:16:00] a lot of it you know, old school male was that it's okay to be angry.
[00:16:07] But not too much and then not being sad, not being fearful, just suppressing your emotions. And there's a lot of societal pressure on that. There's not as much as there used to be, but there's different societal pressures for emotions now.
[00:16:20] Let's walk through an example of an avoiding, like what would avoiding an emotion look like in someone?
[00:16:28] So avoiding an emotion would be, let's say you're fearful of something. It could be, let's say you're going to go into retirement. A lot of, a lot of my friends are retiring and we all go through those of us who admit it is, you know, 10 years before you retire, you start thinking about it and you're fearful and you're like, well, I'm not going to think about retirement today.
[00:16:55] And then the next week comes up and you start thinking, Oh, I had to retire. And then you, Oh, you start [00:17:00] getting afraid. Well, what am I going to do? Our mind likes to keep us safe. It doesn't like new things. It's everyone's mind is that way. So you just avoid it. And for weeks, years, and it just slowly keeps building up.
[00:17:13] So that's an example of avoidance.
[00:17:15] So, so different ways people avoid things is maybe they just keep themselves very, really busy so that you don't have even space or bandwidth in your day to think about something. I don't know, do you, will you ever like create other, other conflicts or other distractions
[00:17:32] to keep you occupied, would that be an example of avoiding like filling up all your time or I don't want to say picking a fight, but just creating a situation that takes all of your energy away from thinking about retirement, right?
[00:17:47] Yeah, you could stay busy at work. You could get involved in too many activities.
[00:17:53] And that's another way. That's a that's a time honored. And actually, when you [00:18:00] look at people, you a lot of our society says that's admirable that they're busy all the time that they fill it up. Another way to avoid, of course, is smoking some weed and drinking. There's nothing wrong with smoking weed and drinking, especially if you're in Colorado and you know your state may vary, and that's another aspect of avoiding another is that like I said, just changing the situation.
[00:18:30] If someone brings up retirement, you change the subject. You start talking about a football game, for example. That's another method of avoidance. And we're very good at avoiding the things we don't want to. We don't necessarily know that, but we're very good.
[00:18:43] are there any tools or techniques that someone can use to become more aware of if they're avoiding or changing when you're, when you're thinking about something like that?
[00:18:56] this is what I did and I found it super helpful, was at the end of the [00:19:00] day I would write down three things that I got triggered from and then that, that was one aspect. Then it evolved to, I would also think about what, what is it that I want to do? And for example, coaching, I would realize that once I want started to do coaching.
[00:19:22] I would say, okay, I'd set an action for myself and let's say I had a due date of one week out from the time I wrote it. When I would write the due date and I didn't make it, I'd go, okay, what was the emotion behind that? And there was always an emotion on it. I mean, I wouldn't say always, but 90 percent of the time.
[00:19:45] Sometimes it's, you know, life happens. The kids needed some attention. Then I'd say, okay, well, kids needed. You know, got sick whatever that was. And I pushed that off for the next week. But if I delayed it one week for emotions, I would [00:20:00] relax and release on it. And I would do the same thing for the next week and see if I made the goal.
[00:20:05] And sometimes there's multiple layers of resistance emotions associated with it.
[00:20:10] I like that doing, doing a journaling or some kind of thing at the end of the day, just, and you may not always have three triggers, right? Like, you don't have to always be triggered, but just being cognizant.
[00:20:21] And then I imagine if you do that a few days or a few weeks in a row, maybe you start to see, start to see some themes pop up or originate.
[00:20:29] Yes, you do. And you get to see certain what I found was there were certain people at work. And, and my boys were always challenging. When I say always, they're awesome boys.
[00:20:43] I would find certain situations that would trigger me. And nothing with them, they're, they're little kids. Or as they grew up into middle school, et cetera there'd be certain situations. And the thing is, things keep changing for us too, to keep it, keep us on our toes. It's, it never [00:21:00] is never boring.
[00:21:01] you become aware of it. And we talked about the, the relax and release technique a little bit, you know, something else that comes up that I don't always think we talk about. We're, we're kind of touching on the negative side in a sense of, you know, the different emotions, but what does you work through this and you start to.
[00:21:20] Realize some of these things you, you, you know, assuming you work through the techniques and whatnot, you know, what's the, the, the positive side in terms of, it seems like, does this free up more space for you to feel emotion or how would you describe the positive aspect of, of working through all of this?
[00:21:38] Okay.
[00:21:38] Well, let me step back cause you did point out something and I'll answer your question, but all emotions. We put positive or negative labels on them, right? Like for example, anger, anger, if it owns you, then it's, it's negative. Anger also can get you in an energy where you move mountains because you're angry at [00:22:00] something.
[00:22:00] So it's, it's. All emotions have the quote unquote, we label it good or bad fear. Same thing, right? You're afraid of something. Well, if you're standing, you know, if a car is coming at you, fear is a great thing. All right, you get out of the way.
[00:22:13] you kind of reframed it a bit in terms of realizing that all emotion is not it doesn't have to Be negative or positive.
[00:22:19] That's a moniker that we add to it depending on our own personal filters, but really I guess I was thinking about it. Does does this free up emotional energy or how does it how does it kind of manifest in your life in a positive way or what do you what do you see and what does it where else does it
[00:22:39] help your life other than simply dealing with maybe an anger or a sadness I mean that I want to see the other side of the coin so to speak
[00:22:45] let's just say i'm afraid of something. The fear comes up and let's say I haven't done any work on it then I spin I spend cycles and maybe for minute maybe for five minutes who knows what it is And [00:23:00] then when i'm out of it I get I'm fearful and I can't take action.
[00:23:04] It takes a lot of energy to overcome that fear. Whereas when I let go of the fear on a particular thing, then I'm clear and I can take decisive action because my mind is clear at that point and that's the positive and I find the more and more that relax and release that I have used it and other people I know is you have more energy to do things you want to, and you're not, you're not stopped. And for example, I was working on some things at, at work and I kept relaxing and releasing. And then one day I was going up to going up Berthold Pass and going to go snowboard in Winter Park. it was, it was snowing really hard.
[00:23:51] And I was halfway up and it just hit me. I was like, wow, I'm not nervous. There was [00:24:00] a tinge of fear, but I wasn't nervous. Usually I was, before that I was kind of, you know. Holding the steering wheel kind of tight and I was driving, I said, wow, I'm just pretty much chilling. No snow pun intended, but just driving up the mountain and felt great about it.
[00:24:17] So that's, that's kind of an unintended consequence of letting go of some of the fear I had in other areas of my life that just opened up. So I was relaxed driving up the mountain pass.
[00:24:27] We've talked a little bit before, but you've also mentioned, I think when you do this work on yourself, it, it seems to affect how other people, whether, even if you say anything or not, how other people perceive you are almost the energy that comes off of you.
[00:24:42] Have you noticed that kind of shift as you've changed your own mindset and how people respond to you? Oh, yeah.
[00:24:49] I've done this at work, but I'll share this story. I love this. And I've had where I had people I didn't get along with and in my mind, they were kind of [00:25:00] enemy like, and then we became good friends afterwards and go out and have beers once I let go of my energy on them and then they felt that vice versa.
[00:25:11] My son my youngest, he was five years old and he had. Three bullies that were bullying him at school, and I asked him to just sit down for 5 10 minutes after we read our stories at night. Always a nice time. Everyone's all quiet. And he would bring up and let go of the the dislike of his quote unquote you know, bullies.
[00:25:39] And then after that, he would send them basically love and acceptance. And it's just a decision. And after that, we did that for a couple of weeks. And then one of the bullies quit bugging him. He was down to two bullies, so we continued the process. And then it got to where the three bullies[00:26:00] he was, he was fine going to school.
[00:26:03] It was so debilitating, he hated going to school because of the bullies. And then afterwards, he's like, yeah, I'm fine, Dad. And I'd ask him and say, are you okay? How about those, those three kids? He goes They're fine. And that's
[00:26:16] an example. No, that, that, I mean, I think that's very profound and especially, it may seem foreign to people that, I mean, it definitely would have seemed foreign to me.
[00:26:27] Like, when you're not in touch with your emotions, I don't think you always realize that you do have an energy you're putting off. Even if you think you're kind of a poker face or whatever, you have an energy that you're giving off related to people. And They feel that even at a subconscious level, and so I think that's a, that's a really profound shift that we don't always think about.
[00:26:50] We think, oh, we're doing this inner work on ourself, but the outward reflection of that and how people feel you. Right. That's really big.
[00:26:58] It's, it's huge. And I've [00:27:00] done that with so many people. There's some people I have to be truthful. You know, I I've succeeded with so many people and go my baggage, but there's some people that I kept letting go and let go and I still had some issues with them, but I understood it was me.
[00:27:13] And but I kept working on it and continue to work on it. But it's, it's amazing. It's it almost feels. I've done this so many times and I've had other people, you know, work with it and heard of other people who do this. It almost feels like it's a magic. It's not, but when it, when it happens, you're like, it feels like you've written a Hollywood script.
[00:27:35] It's, it's actually pretty darn cool when it happens.
[00:27:39] Oh, that sounds amazing. And to be, and to be clear, if someone's listening to this and thinking like, are they saying, is he saying that I, that it's always, the trouble is always with me. And no matter what the other person's actions are that I just need to, to forgive them or to let that go or, or what that.
[00:27:59] And so [00:28:00] kind of what, what's that dynamic there? What do you, how do you do that with someone that may be doing something that, you know, deserves a negative response?
[00:28:08] Right. And that's a really good question, Erik. And the thing is there's some behaviors that are, are not acceptable.
[00:28:18] When you're, you have a lot of energy on something, let's say you get really triggered by something you're someone at, at work or in your family is doing, the first thing you need to do is get clear. Because when you're angry, like if I start, you know, start yelling at you, Erik, let's just say, you're going to get defensive.
[00:28:40] Or if I get snarky with you, you're going to pick up on that energy and you'll get snarky back or you won't listen to me. When I let go. Let's just hypothesize, right? You and I have something going on. If, if I have a bunch of energy towards you, you're not going to listen to me because you get defensive around me.
[00:28:57] When I shift my energy to [00:29:00] being clear and I let go of judging you and I just send you love and approval because you're a human being on the planet, just like I am, and it's tough, it's a tough gig down here at times, as we all know. Then I can see where you're coming from, because I'm not operating from my frustration with you.
[00:29:21] I get clear and I go, Oh, Erik's really afraid of, let's say, this one point. And because you're afraid of this one point, now that I see that you're afraid of it, I can help you. As in, I can change how I'm approaching the issue and say, Oh, well, how about if we go with this approach that will alleviate your fear?
[00:29:42] And is, will, will you necessarily be open to it? Not necessarily. And I'll just continue to work on it. But I'm in a, I shift from judging you to helping you. And when I started doing that, you feel it and you will be much more open and you'll go, wow, Hunter's not such [00:30:00] a, an asshole anymore, right? No, cause I'm, cause I'm not right.
[00:30:06] That's hilarious. That is a big point. I think there's some quote, and of course, I'm sure it'll get misattributed, but you know, something about not judging the other person because you never know what else is going on in their life, right? And so, even, even if their direct actions to you are obviously negative or, or feel that way, you don't, you don't know what's happening at home, what, you know, what they're dealing with from other people.
[00:30:36] And so, at least that can kind of give you the kernel. Of a way to shift the mindset like you're talking about,
[00:30:43] right? And no, it's great is also, if you think about it, right, the, the higher level that we talked about, the outcome is massive, but, another thing that's amazing is instead of when, you know, let's say I let go of my stuff and then you and I [00:31:00] start working together before I was judging you.
[00:31:03] So that takes a lot of energy and, you know, negative energy. And you feel it takes a lot of negative energy from you because you're, you know, putting up your fists, you know, meta metaphorically. So then when I let go and I actually start accepting you, I feel better. And also you can let go on your defenses.
[00:31:23] So you'll feel better too. And it just happens. It's, it's quite fascinating.
[00:31:30] So say someone is listening to this, they're like, man, this sounds cool. I'm interested in, getting started on this,what does the process look like working with you,
[00:31:40] So what I would recommend is you can go to my website. And sign up for a free introductory discovery session and I can walk you through the process and see how it resonates with you. Some people I walk it through and they're like, yeah, yeah, it's okay. But it doesn't necessarily resonate.
[00:31:59] Other [00:32:00] people I walk them through and they go and go, wow, this is, this is fascinating. Let's continue to work.
[00:32:08] that's what would be the first step.
[00:32:10] what's your website?
[00:32:12] Be calm and clear. All one, all one word. All Be calm and clear. Okay, be calm and clear. One word, one sentence, I should say. Yeah. And then your goal with this is, go through the coaching process, teach these people these techniques So they'll have them in their toolbox, but ultimately, this is something you'd be able to do yourself once you learn these techniques or, or how does that go?
[00:32:36] Correct.
[00:32:37] the goal is to teach people to do this on their own. Because it takes time. It's like anything, you know, working out you know, meditating, it takes discipline and just need to do it every day. And you get the more and more you do it, you get better and better. But the goal is for you to, to do it on your own.
[00:32:56] we go through 10 sessions. And the [00:33:00] first one is a whiteboard session where we look at your current life and your, your future life, what you envision it to be, and kind of find some things that are, keeping you from where you want to go. And then over the next nine sessions, we talk about working on those particular issues.
[00:33:20] I use the word retirement before, but let's do something else that you want to just change your career if that's the case. you're not happy in your current job. We would use that as the vehicle to learn the relax and release process. I ask you questions and I'm able to have you look at your pain points faster.
[00:33:41] And then I teach you how to let go of the emotions you're feeling so you can get clear on that particular issue. And once you do that, then you can, you can move forward and you know, make the decisions you need to on, on getting a new job. And then at the end of the [00:34:00] 10 sessions. You know how to do this on your own, and you can continue on your own,
[00:34:07] that's fantastic. And I think you pointed out something there that is really important. Especially if you, if this is something that you've been working on for a while, or you've been saying to yourself for years, Oh, I need to change this job or whatever aspect it is. Is the power of an outside person, a trained person like a, we're using the term coach, but a trained person like a coach.
[00:34:30] Just kind of reflecting to you, helping to look at it, get a different perspective and identify those points that are holding you back that you may not even be aware of or that are just kind of blind spots to you.
[00:34:43] Correct? Yeah, and the thing is in our society, right? Once you, if you go to college, let's say you graduate high school, but you have, you have teachers around and, and people that assist you and you have your mom and dad and your siblings.
[00:34:58] And then all of a sudden when you graduate high school or you [00:35:00] graduate from college, it's like, well there was a syllabus, et cetera. And now you're kind of on your own to figure everything out. Right. And there's, there are mentors, professional mentors and It's great to be professionally mentored.
[00:35:14] But as far as having someone help you with your blind spots. You know, as far as a career or having you blind spots with your family, blind spots with your friends, your diet, whatever. It's, it's a different way of looking at things. And what I would suggest is, I was resistant to it.
[00:35:34] I didn't even know about it until about five years before I got with a coach. And once I did, I was like, wow, this actually makes a lot of sense because then I shifted and go, well, I do this in engineering with, you know, learning new software. I have no problems having a mentor, but the rest of my life, I was like, well, no, I, I can figure this out on my own.
[00:35:53] And, and to our credit, we all do figure it out on our own eventually as much as we can. [00:36:00] However. When you have someone else that helps you look into your blind spots, you can go through these things so much faster and with much less effort and less pains. There's still discomfort involved, whether you're on your own or whether you're with a coach, but it's so much faster and we only have so many years on the planet.
[00:36:21] No, great point. that brings up another thing, obviously, just to set the table a little bit, I've known you, geez, for a number of years, five, six years or more now. At least maybe, maybe longer actually. Yeah. Point being I know you, well, you're a very intelligent, curious, thoughtful person. And now you've, you've moved in the coaching space you're talking about something that you've both experienced as someone being coached and now as someone that is in the coaching space and coaching others.
[00:36:54] And so I'm always curious. to kind of have a conversation now about coaching. So [00:37:00] coaching in general, what do you think if someone is curious about coaching, whether it's working specifically with you or maybe there's another area of their life, you know, separate from the relax and release technique,
[00:37:13] Maybe they're wanting to get an entrepreneurial coach or some other form of coach, what do you look for? What are your kind of your tells as to what would make a good coach or what makes someone a good coach?
[00:37:25] Oh, good question. I put a huge value on my friends and their experiences.
[00:37:32] That's always how I start. Now, if you do have the friends you know, go, Hey, let's say you have a entrepreneurial friends and you want to get an entrepreneurial coach, go talk to them. And find out who they recommend, or they might not know, but they go, Oh yeah, I have a friend who, who they trust
[00:37:53] Now I go back to when I blew up at Chase way back in the day. [00:38:00] And I was like, okay, emotions. I went through all my friends. I was like, yeah, no, no. So, so I went to the internet, of course. And started doing research and I went down a lot of rabbit holes. And what I would recommend as far as when you start looking for a coach, let's say you don't have friends that can point you to the right coach is go and look on the internet and let's say entrepreneurial space.
[00:38:33] And find some coaches that are exactly in your space, ideally. So let's say you want to go anddo real estate, right? For example. And if you can find a coach that has some real estate experience, he'll understand a lot of the nuances you're going through.
[00:38:52] You don't necessarily have to do it, but I would recommend that. And then watch their YouTubes, do some free sessions with a few. [00:39:00] Most coaches have free sessions and see who resonates with you and get it, you know, trust your gut. I know some people are like, well, I don't know what trusting my guts about.
[00:39:10] And if you don't know trusting your gut, then Do the pros and cons list. Go this. This coach was awesome. One thing you want to make sure is that they listen to you and you feel that you're, you feel safe with them because you're gonna, you're gonna share things with them in order for them to be an effective coach.
[00:39:30] You have to share some of the, your real, your real problems. And at first it's scary to do that. So someone you feel safe with someone that listens to you and also someone that will push you because yeah. If you have a friend, right, that listens to you, that's fabulous. But we also need people to help push us in, in a loving way.
[00:39:51] So those would be the things I'm looking for.
[00:39:54] So get a referral. If first case, best case scenario is if you have a friend that can give you a [00:40:00] referral, otherwise then start doing some research on your it seems like everybody's producing or a lot of folks are producing some form of content that you can listen to, find them on a podcast.
[00:40:12] Watch a YouTube, as you said, Ted talk, whatever it may be.
[00:40:16] Yeah. And then, and then go with the free session and make sure that they listen to you and they Basically make you feel safe and they will also challenge you. Those are the big three things for a coach.
[00:40:33] Well, you want to throw out any potential red flags?
[00:40:36] Like if there's a, you know, an immediate, an immediate, like, do you have anything that would, that would be a red flag for you on any coaches? Yeah. Use your
[00:40:46] Yeah. If someone says they can guarantee a result of, I mean, of massive magnitude that they'll make you rich and, you know, let's say. Three weeks or three months.
[00:40:58] That would be a huge [00:41:00] thing that they will guarantee. You'll be an awesome Entrepreneur in three months big red flag. Also if they are telling you instead of listening to you Those would be two big ones.
[00:41:12] I think those are both great. What's your take on? You know how some folks will have a kind of a pre designed program or you you just take here's 10 pre recorded videos and almost like an online seminar Versus a live back and forth approach.
[00:41:31] Do you, what do, what are the pros and cons of those? If someone's thinking about that. Yeah,
[00:41:36] no, thanks for bringing that up. I was thinking more one on one. No, the, the courses I've taken courses that have been good. It depends on what your outcome is. If you want to. Do a space where you kind of know what it is you're looking for do an online course and that's more for a, a [00:42:00] skill an online course and a one on one coach may have an online course as an intro, they may put you through something.
[00:42:07] I had one who did that and they put us through 12 straight days of asking questions and whatnot. It was more of a. It's more of a kind of kick the tires and go, wow, this person seems like they might be pretty awesome and then set up a live coaching session with I like that. So there's, there's merits for, for both.
[00:42:28] Awesome. I appreciate that. And, and then maybe it's because it's kind of a a thing, a hang up for me, where do you come on people that coach on things that maybe they haven't done themselves? I'm always leery of if, if someone's telling me how to do something, but it has no track record of, of doing it themselves.
[00:42:48] Right. And, and the thing is, You have to decide no one has the same experience that you have and no one has the same, you know, breadth of experience you do. So no one is going to be able to be[00:43:00] ideally your coach is, is, has experienced where you want to go. They're either 10, 5, 10, 15 years in the future.
[00:43:09] They've already walked that walk. So you have to decide. If let's say you want to be a real estate entrepreneur and they have no entrepreneurial experience to know real estate Then they're not your coach. Got it. So but if they do have those then fantastic
[00:43:24] and that's definitely not age specific right, I mean you could you could want help on starting an online business and connect with a A 20 year old that's selling, you know, sneakers on their online platform for two or three years, that's just crushing it.
[00:43:40] And that could be great. And, and you may be in your, you know, it's, it's, so it's not age specific. It's, it's literally kind of action or event specific.
[00:43:48] Correct. Yes. So yeah, I've had one of my coaches was I think half my age, but he had been in the space where I wanted to go for. [00:44:00] I think seven years.
[00:44:02] So yeah, you don't, the age of the coach does not matter. It's the experience that matters. Very good question.
[00:44:10] Fantastic. Okay. One more shift of gears. And this is, as I said, Hunter and I are friends. We've been friends for a number of years. And we occasionally get together, go for hikes, have conversations.
[00:44:22] And I want to share this because This is an understatement. I would say over the last two years, this one piece of advice, if not, it's the most impactful. It's definitely in the top three most impactful things that I've learned, been told, and, and that was on a hike a few months ago in which we were talking about kind of making decisions, trying to figure out what, what path in life to take, what path is right, And the difference between using your mind, kind of the analytical power of your mind, and realizing what that is and where [00:45:00] it's, where it's meant to be used.
[00:45:01] And then this, this other power, whether it be source, God, whatever, however you think about it, but this power higher than us that kind of lays down the path or points us in the right direction if we just pay attention to it. And so just talk a little bit about Your thoughts on that and kind of how that transpired and and how people can use that as maybe a framework or a tool as They're thinking about their life and how to move forward
[00:45:30] Okay.
[00:45:31] Well, how about how about if you recall it? What what I gave you and then I'll fill it in. How does that sound or do you want me to do it? Yeah, no, no, I
[00:45:42] can I can lay it out there and I may not well, yeah, I'll just lay it out there So one thing for me is always thinking about am I on the right path or what direction should I be?
[00:45:54] What is my purpose in life? What is my calling and it's something that I struggled with for lots of [00:46:00] years and I would say It's only been recently that I've gotten some clarity on that and your, your advice was key and, and And in your mind, you're saying, look, there are certain things in the example you gave.
[00:46:12] There's certain things that your mind, your analytical brain is really good at doing. Like once you have a task, figuring out next steps to do the task, figuring out where to go, how to get things done. That's what your brain is for. That's what your analytical mind is for, but your mind is not always, or it's.
[00:46:30] It's usually not the right tool for taking care of things. Some things you, for lack of a better term, you just kind of trust to you can't see far enough down the road and so you just have to trust a higher power, higher source, whatever you want to call it. We don't, I don't want to tie like, you know, the word God to it specifically because some people haven't have a hang up on religion, but you know, the collective nonconscious.
[00:46:56] Whatever you may want to call it, that there's something that knows more and knows [00:47:00] better than you and that there's just certain things that your brain can't figure out and process and you do as much as you can, the analytical steps and then at some point you say, all right, I'm moving in this direction and I will trust that the next things will unfold as they need to as long as I'm doing my part of this.
[00:47:16] So now that I've laid it out in there, kind of massage it and correct it and take it in the right direction from there because you had a much, much cleaner, prettier, better analogy than me. No, that
[00:47:27] was, that was that was really well done, Erik. Yeah, thank you. And thank you for sharing that I, I helped you.
[00:47:33] I, I truly, that is what lights me up helping others do this. So I would say that, yeah, there's, you said the brain, the way the analytical mind works perfect. I would use, you know, some people use the word source. And like you said, God, a lot of people, I would use the word that. A lot of people have have experience with is your intuition, right?
[00:47:56] I like that. Yes. It's just, just use your, your [00:48:00] intuition and go like, like Erik's example was he's trying to figure out his path. And the path is, is difficult to find out. It took me 50 years to find it. Okay. So, but I had to go on all these different steps. To find out what really lights me up and I'm doing it now.
[00:48:20] But if you'd gone back 20 years, I didn't know what it was. So I learned when I started doing this just to trust my intuition. And when I'm doing something, I ask, I ask my mind cause it starts churning. And I say, how about you let intuition do this? So if you're having problems with this and I've, I'm sorry, I asked you to do this.
[00:48:44] It's outside your wheelhouse. And my mind goes, pause, when I do this, it always pauses and then there's this massive relief going, yeah, yeah, I would, I don't really want to deal with that because I haven't figured it out. [00:49:00] And there's a relief that washes over, you know, I think you felt that. Yeah, I feel it now just as
[00:49:06] you describe it, just this, this idea that you can, I love that you can say to your mind, Hey, you know, that's, I shouldn't have put that on you.
[00:49:13] That's outside of your wheelhouse let's let intuition take care of that now, you
[00:49:20] know, and what's great is when we do that as our mind to go, well, I want this done, you know, three weeks from now and you say, okay, thank you mind. The timetable is not up to you because you, you can't figure this out.
[00:49:33] And then we let intuition and you start paying attention to just things that are going on in your life and you go, Oh yeah, you follow your intuition. You should do that. That kind of feels good. And it's, it's like anything else. The more you practice it, the more, the better you get at it. But it's so nice.
[00:49:52] To not have that burden on the mind, it clears it up so that you're, you're able to think about other things much better.
[00:49:59] And as I said, [00:50:00] this is something I've been doing more and more over the last number of months. And it, it really is. It's exactly like you described. It's just a huge relief to just have that awareness.
[00:50:11] Oh, wait, this isn't something for my mind to deal with. This is something for intuition and it, it helps to calm that cycle. It helps to remove the mind because I think it takes away a little bit. It takes a bit of the responsibility way, right? Like you're kind of saying this is outside of my direct immediate control because you kind of think of your mind being the mechanism you can use for situations that you can control or that you can solve.
[00:50:40] And through your hard work, you can affect the outcome. But there's just certain things That, that's not the case in that moment, and I think it's giving your mind permission. What are your thoughts on that? Yeah,
[00:50:51] it's basically there's not much really in our control, right? We think there is more than there is.
[00:50:57] And we continue, myself included, [00:51:00] to try to control certain things. And then I stop and go, huh, all right, trying to control that. Let's let that go. You still put in the hard work, it's just more you wait till the moment, you don't churn and try to, you don't try to line up the events you don't try to force things to happen, right?
[00:51:18] And whether it's, let's say, buying the right house it's finding the right job, you think of all the variables that are going to come into play to, to succeed on either one of those. And you still put in the work, though, it's more you relax. You're paying attention and then when you need to do the work, you go do the work and then you put in the work and then you just take your hands and go, okay, I'm going to go, I'm going to go eat a snack now, instead of having your mind churn and go, well, all right, I sent out my resume and I sent it to 10 people that I really like all the jobs.
[00:51:54] What I need to do at that point, you know, nothing. And then maybe next day or [00:52:00] let's say a week later, one of the places you sent a resume to, you run into someone and they have a job there and you go, Hey, I just sent my resume there. And you talk to them and say, Hey, can you put a good word for me? And that's, that's when you're like, Oh, this is kind of fun.
[00:52:15] It's actually kind of a game.
[00:52:17] Talk to a little bit more about that because I think that's also a really good tool there is to shift that, shift that to the idea of, Oh, this is fun. And it's a bit of a, it's a game, right? Like, I mean, I mean, it sounds cliche to say about life, but it really is an important mindset shift.
[00:52:35] This idea of it being a game or how do you think about that? Yeah.
[00:52:40] It's yeah. Having fun. Cause that's one thing I had struggled with is taking things too seriously. And the more and more I think of things as a game, the game shifts your energy. So when it's a task, it's got that, I have to energy and I got to, you know, set out my resumes and [00:53:00] there's, it's a low energy.
[00:53:02] How do you feel, Erik, when you think I have to?
[00:53:04] I definitely, you feel anxious. There's definitely something anxiety around that notion.
[00:53:09] Right. Whereas if you say I choose to. I choose to send out my resume. How do you feel now?
[00:53:17] I feel some dominion over it. So it feels like I have, I have a bit of control. Right. And you
[00:53:24] feel calmer. Absolutely.
[00:53:27] Right. So that's, that's,
[00:53:29] yeah, that's a big, that's an easy hack to do is just go. I choose to, and also when you say I choose to, you're clear. I had a, I had someone I was working with They had a task and they have to, and just listening to him, I was, I was getting kind of depressed.
[00:53:47] I'm exaggerating. But then when I said, we'll try, I choose to, she shifted and she broke down this massive task. She already just said, I choose to. And she goes, oh, well, I can get part a of that done today. [00:54:00] And then part B I can get done two days from now and part C I can get done next week, just without, I mean, she just did that and she goes and she got Basically lighten her step.
[00:54:10] I could just see the energy shift. And when you go to that, you're in a higher energy and you can have fun with it because you're like, Oh, this is, it's fun at that point because you're doing things you want to do because you chose to. Now, there's some things when you say, I choose to, you'll also go and say, Actually, I can't choose to do that.
[00:54:32] And you can go, wow. I don't really need to do this. Then you evaluate and some things when you shift to that energy, you go, no, I, I don't need to do that. And I'm not going to do it. Right. Right. Which is, which is pretty amazing in itself too. So it's, it's, it's kind of a fun game to kind of see where your, your feelings will guide you, your intuition at that point.
[00:54:53] Oh, that's awesome. And just by switching the word and thinking about it differently from, I have to, to, I mean, I can see that [00:55:00] being the case with a meeting, right? You think, oh, I've got my schedules all packed and now I have to go to this. Meeting with Bill that I don't really want to go to. And I'll send, wait, do I choose to go to that?
[00:55:12] You know, it's, it, it starts to give you some agency, which can, as you said, free up a lot of things.
[00:55:18] Yes. It's, it's a fun and it's a fun little game. And I've been doing this for a while now and I sometimes catch myself going, I have to, and I go, Oh, and I, I make up a game. I go, Oh, whoops. All right, you forgot to, but I have fun with myself.
[00:55:34] Oh, you forgot to, all right. How about if you choose to, and then it's a game. I don't beat myself up. Oh, you dumb ass, you, you have to know. It's like, Hey, oh, you slipped up. I choose to.
[00:55:47] And it's just that little energetic shift, but I mean, it's a huge energetic shift when you do that. Yes. And it just gives you more energy for other areas of your
[00:55:57] life.
[00:55:59] Yes. Yeah. [00:56:00] It's all about, you know, having, being in higher energy.
[00:56:03] That's fantastic. Right. That's awesome. Well, we definitely covered some territory people know where to find you. Let's just double verify that. Be clear and calm, calm and clear.
[00:56:19] Be calm and clear.
[00:56:20] Be calm and clear. I'll put that in the show notes so that we get
[00:56:24] that right.
[00:56:25] Yes. Be calm and clear. Be calm and clear. I choose to go visit be calm and clear. I love that. Dot com. Dot com.
[00:56:33] Okay. And then is there anything else you want to want to talk about that we haven't? We haven't covered
[00:56:40] anything jumped. No, no, done really nice. And thanks for the great questions, Erik, always fun chatting with you.
[00:56:46] And thanks for your kind words on how I helped you. I really appreciate that.
[00:56:51] Tremendous help. I mean, I, I would highly recommend anyone, anyone that has questions about this, or is just curious, reach out to Hunter. Do [00:57:00] one of his, discovery call. He's obviously you can pick it up just from this. He's a, he's a great guy to get to know. And I think that will come through loud and clear on the discovery call and has been a tremendous help to me.
[00:57:13] So thank you.
[00:57:15] Thank you, Erik. Fun as always. See
[00:57:18] you, buddy. See you soon.
[00:57:19] Yep. Yes, we will. It's Chautauqua. Or somewhere else.
[00:57:23] Sounds good.