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In this episode, Georgie is joined by Gina Gill, Chief Information Officer at Apollo, whose career spans UK government and the private sector, including time at the Ministry of Justice. Having only joined the Lloyd's market a little over a year ago, Gina brings a refreshingly outside-in perspective on where the insurance industry stands when it comes to technology and transformation.
Together they explore some of the biggest topics in insurance tech right now, from legacy systems and data quality to the real meaning of augmented underwriting and whether the tension between moving fast and staying compliant is even real. Gina also shares her thoughts on what organisations should stop doing, why she believes technology and business strategy should be one and the same, and what the industry risks if it doesn't ask harder questions about the future it's actually building.
Creators and Guests
What is Insurance Technology: Fact or Fiction??
Host Georgie Simister speaks with key insurance industry figures to separate fact from fiction in a world of insurance, debunk industry myths and explore the game-changing innovations shaping its future.
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Modernising insurance is simple. Just replace the legacy systems and automate the slips, right? Today, I'm joined by Gina Gill, Chief Information Officer at Apollo. Gina has had an extraordinary career spanning UK government and the private sector, from cabinet office to serving as CDIO at the Ministry of Justice, where she has led digital and data transformations that help shape the future transformation strategy for one of the most complex environments in the country. Just over a year ago, Gina bought that experience into the Lloyd's market, stepping into the role of CIO at Apollo.
Georgie:She's deeply passionate about both technology and people, which makes her the perfect guest to help shape us separate fact from fiction when it comes to insurance transformation. Welcome.
Gina:Thank you. Delighted to be here.
Georgie:I'm very excited to have you. So me and Gina met on a women's forum, kind of like a webinar talking about women in tech.
Gina:We did.
Georgie:And I was very impressed by Gina's background. And then we did a prep call where I think both of us got a bit too excited and too into the detail of what we'll be discussing in the podcast. So I think it's gonna form a really great conversation today.
Gina:I hope so.
Georgie:So your background, as I said, is really impressive. So your career from where you started to now moving into insurance. So you've moved from the government sector into the insurance industry. Before you made the move, what was your perception of the insurance industry and has it matched up to your expectations or were there any surprises that have shifted that?
Gina:I wasn't sure what to expect, if completely honest. So I got a call out of the blue about the role at Apollo. I didn't really understand Lloyd's. I thought it did some trading stuff around insurance. I didn't really understand the extent to which the market kind of feeds, powers innovation, and kind of pushing the boundaries in other industries, in many other industries.
Gina:I didn't understand the history. Yeah. I mean, it does come from a really interesting place and quite an innovative place, I think. And I didn't know what to expect culture wise. Yeah.
Gina:I, particularly moving from government back into private sector, And I find a culture, particularly at Apollo, that is really, like, human, entrepreneurial, really willing to try different things, which is amazing from a CIO's perspective. So all of that's been absolutely wonderful. And I think particularly given all that context, the one thing that's really surprised me is where we are from a technology perspective. Right. That there's obviously lots and lots of stuff going on, but I would have thought we might be a little bit further along that kind of curve as a market.
Georgie:Before, I've done multiple different podcasts all with different themes. And one of them that is that the Lloyds and the insurance market is slow to innovate. Would you stand firm that that's incorrect?
Gina:I think it depends on what lens you're looking at it through. Yeah. So from a tech perspective, I've seen industries that are going faster. Yeah. If I think about and look at our underwriters, they're being hugely innovative.
Georgie:Mhmm.
Gina:If I think about the organizations that we're working with, they're hugely innovative. So I think that's a bit of an unfair statement overall.
Georgie:Mhmm. Good to hear. The role of CIO, how do you define that? And what does success look like within your role?
Gina:So for me, I think the CIO role is about strategy. It's about looking forward and into the future. It's about being a change agent. Right. It's about motivating people, getting people excited about the future.
Gina:I don't think it's about technology. I know it is, but I don't think technology is really the thing that I bring to the organization. There are people in my team that have got different specialisms, but I think my role is a broader role than that. And I think success for me is based on business outcomes. It's not based on delivery of technology things, but it's about how do I help the organisation to grow, to be better, to be more profitable, to be a better place to work.
Georgie:Okay, that's good to know because I think people would have the miss maybe the misunderstanding that a CIO role is firmly looking at the technology stack, maybe the security of the system.
Gina:I mean, I am a little bit geeky. Yeah. And so, yes, it's a broad role. So there are some days when I'm in the detail of what are we doing about security or what are we doing about the tech stack or what are we doing about another technology issue. But I think those things should be an exception for me, and and they're kind of the things that you dive into when you need to dive into.
Gina:Yeah. But actually, like I said, there are people on my team that know those things way better than I do, and should know those things way better than I do. And so my job should be kind of connecting that to the organisation more broadly.
Georgie:Perfect. Key topic right now and that everyone's discussing is data and its cleanliness of data, it's, you know, getting data right. And it's often described as the key to making better decisions. Where are organizations still struggling the most when it comes to data?
Gina:Look, there's the obvious stuff. So what data do we have? Where is it? What's the quality of the data? Can we access it?
Gina:Etcetera, etcetera. I think in this market, you then have a layer on top of that, which is interconnectivity across the market. So if you don't have common taxonomy, then it's quite difficult to actually modernize as a marketplace. It's quite similar to government in that way, actually, where if you can't join up data across government departments, then your citizen experience is never gonna be But joined I think my observation, and the strangest thing for me is that we talk about data as if it's a separate thing.
Georgie:We
Gina:talk about data as if we are an industry where data's a back office thing where you do some reporting from time to time. And actually, it's so integral to what we do and so integral across the whole underwriting cycle that I find it strange that our mindset is still data, is a thing over there that's separate from what we do.
Georgie:Whose responsibility is it to get data right then? Is it the brokers that's passing it over to the underwriters?
Gina:Yeah. I think it's a market responsibility. And I think I mean, look, there are obviously, we've got Lloyd's, we've got the LMA, we've got many organizations kind of as part of the market whose role it is, I think, to ask the right questions, provoke the right conversations. But I think it's everyone's responsibility ultimately.
Georgie:Great. Another topic of conversation that always comes up is legacy systems. And people often use it as not an excuse but you know it's a blocker as to why they're not able able to innovate and many organisations are still fundamentally running on these legacy systems that were built over a decade ago. When you're looking at the legacy systems, how do you assess whether they can grow with the business or whether they need to have a full reset and, you know, be replaced?
Gina:So I'll use an analogy here. So kind of for me, technology needs to be modular. Yeah. And I won't sit here and talk about modular architecture because I think it might turn people off. But So I think if your technology estate is like a Lego set, where you've got building blocks, you can take out blocks, you can put blocks in, and you can reshape Mhmm.
Gina:What you've got to what you want it to be, then I I think you can work with that, right? I think that is an estate that you don't have to reset. Yeah. If you have an estate that is like a jigsaw, where it kind of feels like you've got all the bits and you can put them together however you want, but you can't, can you? A jigsaw only works one way.
Gina:Every piece only goes into one place. If your technology estate looks like that, then I don't think that that's an estate that can grow and kind of grow and evolve with you.
Georgie:You become too reliant then, don't you, on
Gina:your You absolutely. Health Yeah.
Georgie:Yeah. So we're a highly regulated environment in the insurance industry and there's constant tension between wanting to move fast and organisations wanting to run safely. How do you approach modernisation without the compromise of trust compliance or your day to day organizations?
Gina:I think it's a false tension.
Georgie:Okay.
Gina:And I think that links to the kind of modular point that I I just think if you get your estate right, then actually you should be able to move quickly and you should be safer from an operational perspective. So if I look at kind of our goals for this year, there's lots of things that we wanna do and there's lots of tools that we're building for the organization. But my real underlying goal is how do I create the right building blocks from a technology perspective, a capability perspective, a ways of working perspective, to allow us to move fast but also be safe at the same time. And for me, those two things go hand in hand. Not I I don't see like, I don't think there's a tension between those two things.
Georgie:On the point of the legacy systems, I think much of people's estate are still are still reliant on them. Are you at a stage where or are you seeing legacy systems trying to keep up with new modern technologies? Or are they still really falling behind on kind of fundamental pieces? Because a lot of what we're seeing right now is the brokers now wanting to trade digitally with underwriters. And underwriters might have an underwriter workbench and it's an operational benefit to them.
Georgie:Know, it can do TOBA checking, sanctions checking, but it's operational efficiency. But what it's not set up for is that API data trading approach. To your point about modular approach, is there something that would bolt on to that? Is it to replace that workbench with something more foundational? What does it look like in your eyes?
Gina:So I guess to go back, if you think about the market, there are there is a lot of legacy technology. Yeah. And actually, there's a very small number of suppliers in in in the marketplace. I think they are, and I see that they're kind of modernizing their approaches. So they're going from on prem to cloud, moving more towards software as a service models.
Gina:I think my concern is the tech market's already kind of starting to potentially move on from even that, So I I was listening to a podcast last week, or the week before, where they were questioning what the business model is, the future business model is for big SaaS providers. Is AI and the ability to vibe code or the ability to kind of build technology in a different way, is that gonna negatively impact those SaaS providers? My personal view is that the technology market is going and moving and has been moving to a place where you can basically buy all the building blocks to put together anything that you want to do. And if you've got technology that is tying you in to a very specific way of doing things that you can't change easily and can't pivot from easily, then that's problematic.
Georgie:That needs to be removed. Yeah. I think we spoke about this in our prep call. I think you said that when you came into the industry, you were shocked why people needed to buy insurance specific technology.
Gina:And there's an interesting balance here to be had somewhere, right? So coming from government
Georgie:I'm not trying to walk myself out of sale here. No, I know. Please don't buy artificial technology.
Gina:Government went through a very deliberate journey of, lots of things were outsourced, lots of things were built black box externally, didn't understand, couldn't control, slow to change, etcetera, etcetera, big monolithic systems. And so the approach was to move to we should build more internally, and we did. In my personal opinion, we went a little bit too far with that, particularly given, you know, the big providers now have, like I say, the components that you can buy and and and put stuff together. So I think maybe we went too too far there. I think there's a happy medium somewhere.
Gina:Right? Yeah. So I think there is I am not and I'm talking about this with my teams a lot. I am not saying we shouldn't buy anything insurance specific. That would be bonkers.
Gina:Yeah. What I wouldn't want to do is go and buy something that's all singing, all dancing, does everything for us. We can't control it. We can't change it. We can't change elements of it as technology changes.
Gina:That's not I don't think that's the right approach. So I'm not saying that we shouldn't have insurance specific technology, but I am saying that we shouldn't have insurance specific monoliths
Georgie:Yeah.
Gina:And that we should make technology choices really carefully.
Georgie:How does that fit in with the the black box model then? Because a lot of what we do is everything in our programming language is configurable, to the point where you could configure, you know, everything, but it would make that poor user experience. But what we've realized and why we built our own domain specific programming language is that everything in insurance is special. Like, the specialty market is special. So you need to have something that can be configured and bespoke to your models.
Georgie:Do you think that the black box tech model does still fit insurance? Or, you know, are you saying as well that it needs to have that element of configurability and bespokeness to each customer?
Gina:I think you have both. I I think that you can buy you can buy off the shelf things, but I think you have to configure them. And I think that we're in a world, whether it's insurance or whether it's any other industry, if you think about the context that we're in, people want personalization. People expect Like, if you think about outside of work, things are very, very, very tailored to individuals these days in many ways. And if we're not giving people a similar experience at work, then I think you start to lose people, if that makes sense.
Georgie:Yeah. I guess it's, you know, we we all have iPhones.
Gina:I don't. Oh, no. I'm an Android girl.
Georgie:Please leave. Anyway, still the same. The hardware is the same, but the apps that you choose to have compared to another Android user will be completely different. Your home screen, you know, all of that. So you're right, I think.
Gina:I mean, take something like Netflix. You look at you go on Netflix, so you go into my husband's account or, you know, profile, you go into my profile, they're vastly different.
Georgie:I spend all my time on TikTok. I'm such a Gen Z. My attention span has gone down from being able to watch a twenty minute video. If it's not twenty seconds, I'm like, speed it up.
Gina:So you think about the context that people operate in. We expect things to if something doesn't land quickly
Georgie:Yeah.
Gina:Then our attention's gone elsewhere. Mhmm. Right? That's not just something that happens outside of work. You don't change personality as you walk through the door.
Gina:Mhmm. Right? This is
Georgie:a brilliant segue actually into my next question, which is what practical strategies have you seen for modernizing fast enough to stay competitive while still protecting trust, compliance and operations?
Gina:I think and having worked in government, now working in a regulated industry, worked in regulated industries before, we do like to document things. And we do like to write business cases. And we do like to make sure that everything's planned up front. And I think for me, what's really important is demonstration, not documentation. Okay.
Gina:So actually, show people incremental improvements, prove the value, prove that you've learned and that you've lowered the risk. And that then allows you to kind of move forward in a more confident way. So if I take as an example, when I was back at the MOJ, we were modernizing a very old system that runs prisons called Nomis. A big monolith, took years to build, didn't quite do anything very well. And the way that we approached it, we could have said, let's spend the next two years writing a very big business case asking for huge amounts of money.
Gina:And then in three years or four years' time, we might have started the work. What we did instead was build a small team, take a piece of functionality that was in Nomis, and rebuild it, but alongside prison officers. So we worked with them to prioritize the thing, to build the thing, to show value from the thing. And then we went from one small team to two small teams, to three small teams. And so we incrementally kind of started to implement that change, And we showed we could do it safely as we went.
Gina:The other thing I would say is, is like, sure that you don't focus so much on the new that you forget the existing. So again, back in MOJ days, if I go to the legal aid agency, we were building a new set of services, but the old ones were still there and colleagues still had to use those old services. But there was a lack of trust between digital teams and our colleagues for lots of reasons, but not least because the thing that they were using every day just wasn't very good, kept crashing, was slow, etcetera, etcetera. So we spent a bit of time with them on just making improvements to what they were working with, and what we knew they were gonna have to work with for some time. And that started to build more trust with them so that we could then start and give them some time to even think about the future in the new.
Georgie:So we're saying incremental modular changes rather than a big bang transformation. That makes complete sense. How are you finding that, if you translate that to the insurance industry? Like, how do you know what to tackle first?
Gina:I think it comes down to making sure that you're solving the right problem. When I first arrived here, and it was about a year ago, we had a town hall. It was an old staff, like an everyone at Apollo town hall. And one of the most frequent questions was, when are we getting our workbench? Once again, rolled out to different classes.
Georgie:Great topic.
Gina:Class of business. And I was like, well, what's a workbench?
Georgie:Yes. Please define what is
Gina:a In my head, a workbench was, you know, the thing that you put wood on to cut when you're Outdated doing
Georgie:manual is what I would describe a workbench.
Gina:It's manual. It's passive. Yeah. And it's separate from you. Like, it's something that you kind of lean on begrudgingly.
Gina:So I was intrigued by the the word, but spent a bit of time then trying to understand what it was and and and what the market offer was. And then Did
Georgie:you find a unified answer to what a Workbench is? No.
Gina:No? I would describe it as it is automating a linear process. I think, It's a kind thin
Georgie:air glass is why people
Gina:don't And talk to so it lets you it assumes that insurance has taken some data, display some data, let someone make a decision, and then kind of bank or commit that data until the next one comes along. That was kind of my perception of what I was taking away from the Workbench conversation. And then I had our chief underwriting officer, James, saying, I want augmented underwriting. And I was like, what the? That doesn't feel like augmented underwriting to me.
Gina:That feels like a kind of a very passive tool. And so we spent quite a lot of time, we've worked with a design agency to think about what is it? What problem are we trying to solve? Yeah. What does augmented underwriting mean?
Gina:And if that's the goal, then what's the first thing that you that you tackle along the way? And we've just started doing and I love this. We've just started doing a regular huddle with Huddle, Read Scrum, but we call it a huddle. And it is basically underwriting, like claims exposure, data, software engineering, etcetera, coming together to kind of look at the process that an underwriter is going through on a regular basis to then think about, okay, well, what data do they need to be able to inform that decision? What action might they like, we we need to provoke with the technology?
Gina:And so we're kind of we're building it together. So not only are we now looking at, like, what technology we're implementing, but we're also starting to work in a very different way.
Georgie:There's think there's there's the hype, you know, underwriters. It's buzzword is a underwriter workbench. I said, everybody wants one, but no one knows what they do.
Gina:I've seen this in so many other industries where but they're doing that, but they're doing that. And actually, automation is the answer because it makes us cheaper and faster, and, and, And I hear people say, we will be able to do this 20% faster than our competitors. Only until your competitor goes and implement the same thing, at which point you're back to square one again, like you're, you know, back to evens again. And so I think you have to focus on what problem are you trying to solve.
Georgie:Mhmm. It sounds like your approach is is really trying to do that, like bringing people together. And I think what we find when we're implementing technologies, it's all good and well talking to people about the tech, but it's when you actually get to spend time in that discovery phase with the underwriters, see them, you know, work through their process, understand them talking about the challenges, that's when we can really take it away and then obviously play it back to them to make sure that we understand the problem correctly. But that discovery phase for us is so important and they're the experts in their field, you know, talking to an underwriter of thirty years, they know their product line, they know their language inside and out. And I'm an insurance nerd, so I love that stage because I'm like, tell me about your job, your challenges, everything that you have.
Georgie:But it's really good for our solutions engineers to get into the absolute crux of the matter so that when we're configuring something for them, it it hits every single point that it needs to.
Gina:Yeah. No. It's so important. When I first started, and I didn't get to do this enough because I I was trying to learn a new language and and, you know, understand a new organization and industry and role and and team. But I do, and I did spend some time sitting next to an underwriter to see what do they do, you know, going over to the box to see what do you do there.
Gina:And I hugely like, I spent a lot of time encouraging my team to go and do the same. If you're not sitting next to people understanding how they work, how they think, what their issues are, then you can't solve their problems.
Georgie:Yeah. On the point of you joining the in insurance industry only a year ago and having to learn a new language, what do you think we could do better to break down those barriers? Because part of what I want to do with this podcast is it's debunking the myths and it's also insurance creates barriers to entries because we use acronyms, we use the same word for multiple different things. Know, I used to work in commercial motor, still insurance, but terms I would say coming into the Lloyd's industry, the Lloyd's market, completely different. So we're in the same industry, we think we're speaking the same language, we're absolutely not.
Georgie:Like how how did you find that?
Gina:Really daunting, actually. I'd forgotten how I'd forgotten how hard it is to move into a completely new industry and a completely new life. And every industry has it. I remember when I first joined government, something as simple as this will happen in the autumn with something that had a specific interpretation in government. Right?
Gina:Something that would happen happen in autumn meant that it might happen by Christmas. And I was like, but that's not really autumn anymore, is it? Industry has it. I think that for me is one of the attractions of moving across industries is you get to learn a new language. You get to meet new people, create a new network, and think about a set of problems in a different way.
Gina:What can we do better? Do you know, I went on the two day LMA introduction to Lloyd's course a couple of months back. It was brilliant.
Georgie:Oh, great.
Gina:It was just really, really and and I don't know I don't know if I should have done it earlier or not, or if actually spending a bit of time being immersed in it and then having a couple of days to take a step back
Georgie:Yeah.
Gina:And really kind of absorb and think about it was better. We should definitely make everyone do that.
Georgie:I completely agree. You touched on part of your role being the strategy. Mhmm. How do you ensure that the technology strategy is genuinely aligned to the business strategy rather than running in parallel?
Gina:I think they should be the same thing, ultimately. Okay. I think if we're talking about technology as an enabler, I think we're probably not having the right conversation. And particularly, if you think about where we are now from a tech perspective and where we're headed, quite fast it seems, I think asking the question of, you know, how does your technology strategy enable your business strategy? It's a bit like saying, how do your people enable your business strategy?
Gina:That's the comparison for me. And I think that will only get stronger into the future. So if I think about our strategy, what does Apollo want to do? It wants to grow, wants to grow its revenue, wants to make smarter decisions and manage its expenses. And that's what we will help Apollo to do, right?
Gina:So people plus technology will deliver that business strategy, not people will and technology will be a bit of an add on somewhere along the line.
Georgie:I think you're right. I think now we're definitely seeing that technology is enabler to all those points and it should be part of your strategy rather than, as you said, tech sitting, you know, to the side of it or being a completely different conversation. Technology can help with the whole strategy, you know, growth. Does that look like new lines of business that you can write with technology that might not have been profitable by people writing it? Is it increasing GWP per underwriter through technology?
Georgie:There's so many different avenues that you're right, I think they all need to work in harmony together.
Gina:So when I first joined here, and I I like to wind up our CEO occasionally, he likes to wind me up too. When I first arrived, I said, are we an underwriter? Are we an insure tech company? Are we I'd heard Apollo described in different ways. I said, no.
Gina:We're absolutely an underwriter. And I think we're absolutely an underwriting business. And I would say this because I'm a CIO. I think every business is a tech business in some way, shape, or form. Mhmm.
Gina:And I guess maybe the question isn't, are we one or the other? But maybe it's just that we're both.
Georgie:Mhmm.
Gina:And I can't think of many examples where that doesn't apply.
Georgie:So we've talked a lot about, you know, kind of what Apollo are doing, what you see, and I think you've got a brilliant lens just, you know, coming into the industry quite recently. What do you think organisations should stop doing when it comes to technology transformation?
Gina:I think we should stop seeing technology and transformation as a set of programs.
Georgie:Okay.
Gina:So I'm quite old now. But for many years, people have been saying, you know, technology's moving faster. Change is constant. How many times have you heard the term change is constant? I've heard it a lot.
Gina:And we've been saying it for years. If change is constant, why do we set up constructs that have a start and an end to deliver that change? It doesn't make sense. So we say change is constant, we recognize change is constant, but then we pretend that it has an end. Yeah.
Gina:And we pretend it has a beginning, and we pretend we know exactly what's gonna happen in between those two points and I just don't think that's right. So I think like thinking and operating models haven't really evolved to match the phrase change is constant.
Georgie:Do you think that change, so I'm just trying to look at it from our lens. So the problems I think are constant. The problems that an underwriter's been talking about, they've probably been talking about them for years. But I think to what you're saying, technology shouldn't just box in that change. It needs to be incremental and keep working with the business and grow and evolve.
Gina:Yeah. And look, technology changes. If you think about our market, specialty, that keeps changing because the world is changing, because the tech world is changing, and therefore there are different risks to underwrite. How do you think about those risks? So unless and until the world around us stops moving and changing at pace, I don't think that we can really say, yes, this is what we're gonna do and we're gonna stop when we get So
Georgie:how do you then embed continuous learning and the ability to adapt into modern programs alongside that?
Gina:So that for me comes back to, like, two of the questions that we talked about. So what's the role of a CIO?
Georgie:Yeah.
Gina:And that's the reason I say strategy, kind of ways of working, and, like, ways of thinking and motivating people, setting out what the I say setting out what's gonna happen in the future. God, I'd rich if I could do that, wouldn't Setting out I'm
Georgie:gonna ask you do that in a
Gina:second. Gonna ask my co. And then the other thing we talked about was that sense of building the right technology stack or infrastructure, the right capabilities, and the right mindset and ways of working. And that's not just in my team, that's in the organization more broadly that allow us to be nimble. Like I said earlier, we've got lots of things that we want to deliver.
Gina:That's the real thing, I think. Because without that, you can't move at the pace that the world is moving at.
Georgie:Mhmm. So data is a real challenge right now and everyone and everyone's trying to fix it. Let's say dream world data is behind us, we fixed data. What excites you most about what organizations could do next?
Gina:So I'm gonna flip this question back at you. Oh, no.
Georgie:I know.
Gina:So there are lots of different things that excite me. But I think there's a question that we should be asking ourselves as an industry, and I think it's a question that every industry should be asking itself now. So you think about the context that we're operating in. At some point in the future, maybe it's five years, maybe it's ten years, maybe it's twenty years, technology will be able to do my job and most people's jobs. So we know that.
Gina:But do we want it to?
Georgie:No. Absolutely
Gina:Right. But that's a question that I think the market has to answer. So what are the things that make this market unique? It's the relationships. Yeah.
Gina:It's the knowledge. It's the trust and understanding between people and organizations. And I worry that there's a risk in this industry and in other industries that if we don't collectively if we have the conversation about what does the future of this market look like, we will accidentally end up in a future that we didn't plan for or decide to be in.
Georgie:It's interesting, we're talking at the moment a lot about agents, and that's the new AI hype is agentic agents and what does that look like in the specialty world? And you know a lot of the ways that people are experimenting with that, it's having your own AI agent that you can have employees ask questions to and use it as your own kind of encyclopedia. But the whole conversation is about having the human ask the AI for certain things. It will move. Mhmm.
Georgie:So I think we'll we'll end up with agent to agent communication
Gina:Exactly.
Georgie:Which is what artificial can help you with. It's called AG Labs, which is launched. We're the agent to agent communication, which I see benefits for. I think having a twenty four hour trading marketplace will be incredible. You know, if we're trading in London, but we're needing to talk to people all around the world, when your underwriter or a broker comes in, they are ready to write that risk.
Georgie:You're not having to do the back and forth, and you can have that agent to agent communication. But you raise the point about trust, and I think that is the huge part in this. Although you can trust an agent, the whole insurance industry is built on relationships. That underwriter bias, I think, is still really important. And I think where the agents will be most powerful and what I would like to hope that we get to and don't go beyond this is it's really just empowering that human, getting them to ask the back and forth questions, helping them do their job quicker, They can do market analysis, pull in loads of different information.
Georgie:But it's the human that makes the decision.
Gina:I don't disagree with anything you've said. Like I said, I think my worry is where does that go over time and how does that evolve over time? And particularly, I think there's a question for me about So today, it's relatively easy for us to say, yes, but the human will always be the one asking the questions. The human's got the insight. The human's got the relationships.
Gina:But that's because those humans have been working without this technology for quite some time. So when they start working with that technology, then what happens? And how do you make sure that future underwriters still have the knowledge, the skills, the trust and the relationships that people today have have got in the market?
Georgie:Yeah. We should definitely talk about this, actually. Have a separate podcast about a Gen Z occasion. But that is all we have time for today. I could sit here and talk to you all day, so thank you so much.
Georgie:Thank And your passion really comes across when you're talking about the industry and your role. Thank So you very much for joining me. This has been great.
Gina:No problem. Thank you. I've loved it. I can't believe where's the time gone?