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What if you could get more of what you want in life? But not through pushing, forcing, or pressure.
You can.
When it comes to money, time, and energy, no one’s gonna turn away more.
And Kate Northrup, Bestselling Author of Money: A Love Story and Do Less and host of Plenty, is here to help you expand your capacity to receive all of the best.
As a Money Empowerment OG who’s been at it for nearly 2 decades, Kate’s the abundance-oriented best friend you may not even know you’ve always needed.
Pull up a chair every week with top thought leaders, luminaries, and adventurers to learn how to have more abundance with ease.
I think that people have to have the tough conversations, whether it's at Thanksgiving or the parent has to sit there and say this is what I want. Because whatever animosities or tensions there might have been growing up, it will show up when the person's gone.
Kate Northrup:Hello. Today, we have a really important conversation with you. It is with Amber Saunders, who is the founder of The Saunders Firm. She is a legacy and estate planning lawyer for business owners and humans. And so many of us are afraid to talk about death.
Kate Northrup:We're afraid to think about death, and so we avoid the most important conversations with our loved ones about planning for and preparing to carry out their wishes after they're gone. And in today's episode, we talk about the elements of estate planning that need to be done the minute you graduate from living in your parents' house. You may not have these things in place yet. The things we need to be doing once we have children and once we start to gather assets. But what I love the most about this conversation is it is not actually about assets.
Kate Northrup:And as you know, my work about money goes so much deeper than money, and Amber is totally on the same page. This is about legacy. This is about what matters. This is about love, and this is about family and relationship. And if you can get the things dialed in that we talk about in this conversation, you are going to set yourself and your loved ones up for generations of plenty.
Kate Northrup:Enjoy the episode with Amber Saunders. Welcome to Plenty. I'm your host Kate Northrup and together we are going on a journey to help you have an incredible relationship with money, time, and energy and to have abundance on every possible level. Every week, we're gonna dive in with experts and insights to help you unlock a life of plenty. Let's go fill our cups.
Kate Northrup:Please note that the opinions and perspectives of the guests on the Plenty podcast are not necessarily reflective of the opinions and perspectives of Kate Northrop or anyone who works within the Kate Northrop brand. Hey. Thank you for being here.
Amber Saunders:Thank you for having me. So
Kate Northrup:end of life. Yeah. It's something that people avoid thinking about, people avoid talking about. We're worried that bringing it up is gonna make other people feel uncomfortable, feel sad, and yet this is or feel resentful. Like, there's so many feelings Mhmm.
Kate Northrup:Around what you do. And I wanna know, like, out of all the lawyer things you could have chosen, why estates? It
Amber Saunders:was not my favorite class in school. It was very boring. I did not think I was going to do it. And then my grandmother got dementia. And she she had a stroke when I was probably in college, and she's the only person who I knew who did any estate planning, but I didn't know that's what it was.
Amber Saunders:So, like, my great grandmother bought this house in Boston, gave it to my grandmother or put it in her name, and then she stayed upstairs, my grandmother and my mother and everyone in the middle. And then my great grandmother passed. It was easy. My grandmother had the house. My grandmother put it in my mother and my uncle's name.
Amber Saunders:They had the house, were able to take care of my grandparents, my grandmother passed away in her house, my grandfather, my stepmom, everybody in that house because we had them all live together. She had long term care insurance, healthcare directive, power, all of those things. She did everything. And then, like, a three year period, everyone on that side of the family passed away. It was like we were going to a funeral every five months.
Amber Saunders:And so I saw how easy it was when she was sick, then I was like, well, why didn't anybody else do this when she did it? So my grandfather didn't do it. And people went into the bank account with the PO and just were because people just act. They don't act the best when someone passes away. And I was like, well, this is really easy.
Amber Saunders:And then the last person who passed away was my uncle. And my mother had to go to court for three years to like fight with creditors and do all of these things to get the house in her name. And she finally got it.
Kate Northrup:That same house.
Amber Saunders:That same house that was passed And she finally got it, which was wonderful. She sold it to the nurse who took care of my grandparents. So we can still go see the house, so it's cool. But literally that house, which was my great grandmother's and passed down, helped my mother this year last year. She was diagnosed with cancer.
Amber Saunders:Stage three pancreatic cancer. Literally did not have any retirement because she helped me with school, and that house is what paid for her to be able to do everything that whole year because she didn't work because she was going through treatment. So thank goodness she's great now. It's gone, But Wow. Literally my great grandmother's house is what made sure my mother could relax and do what she needed to do to take care of herself while she was sick.
Amber Saunders:So I just don't think that people realize how much it can help, and I don't think my great grandmother thought that it would help her grandchild in 2024.
Kate Northrup:Who she did your so she was your great grandmother, so she was your mom's Grandmother. Grandmother. Mhmm. So obviously, they had a relationship. Mhmm.
Kate Northrup:And and you had a relationship with your great grandmother
Amber Saunders:Mhmm.
Kate Northrup:Which is such a blessing.
Amber Saunders:Yeah. She passed away when I was, like, eight, I think.
Kate Northrup:Okay. Mhmm. She didn't have but, I mean, eight is, like, long enough to yeah. That's that's pretty magical. Yeah.
Kate Northrup:My girls got to meet my granny before she passed, and and they'll I think they'll always remember that. And and and she passed when my little one, I think, was three Mhmm. But my big one was five. And and, like, it is it was really special Mhmm. To watch that legacy.
Kate Northrup:And I don't think most families have the opportunity for great grandchildren to be especially now that people are having babies later.
Amber Saunders:Mhmm.
Kate Northrup:Okay. That's an amazing story. And so you saw what a huge difference it made in your mother's life, and just for all for all of so many generations were protected
Amber Saunders:Mhmm.
Kate Northrup:And were able to, you know, essentially save, like, a whole bunch of headaches
Amber Saunders:Mhmm.
Kate Northrup:Because she went about the steps that you now guide people through. I think it's so fascinating how many of us have created careers that essentially are to heal Mhmm. People in our lineage. Right. Anyway, so why do you think your great grandmother knew?
Kate Northrup:Did you ever get to talk no. Because you were eight, you wouldn't have talked to her about estate planning. No. But did you ever know, like,
Amber Saunders:what how'd she know to do that? I think she was the only one so I don't know any of my grandmother's relatives, like the extended family. But as far as I knew, it was just my grandmother and my great grandmother because my grandmother's brother had passed before. And so she knew she only had one child to give something to, so she wanted to make sure that it went there. And so because we didn't have a lot of family and all those things, I think she just wanted to make sure and she didn't do like a will.
Amber Saunders:She just put the house in her daughter's name or something like that because that's what she knew to do. Yeah. So I think she just wanted to make sure
Kate Northrup:But even doing that made a huge difference for what, three generations? Mhmm. Three generations next. And, yeah, I mean, that's that's a phenomenal story.
Amber Saunders:I have no idea where she got it from.
Kate Northrup:So what are the myths that people are holding around estate planning that you wish they would understand the truth about?
Amber Saunders:It sounds wild, but it's almost like people are superstitious that they think that if they talk about it, then it's going to happen tomorrow. Like, sooner.
Kate Northrup:Yeah. Right.
Amber Saunders:And so they just avoid it, like, well, maybe that will make it not happen. It's like, well, one day makes no sense. Right. When but it's they'll just I don't wanna talk about it. Yeah.
Amber Saunders:And then they
Kate Northrup:just We're all gonna die.
Amber Saunders:Mhmm.
Kate Northrup:Yeah. And if someone is listening Mhmm. It's one thing to handle their own estate planning, which I think is we'll we'll get there.
Amber Saunders:Mhmm.
Kate Northrup:I think that's like a slight maybe I'm wrong. Mhmm. Please correct me if I am. It feels less scary than talking to elders about their estate planning because it feels like and I was in a situation my mom has been really on top of it with her estate planning. She's been talking about it for decades.
Kate Northrup:Like, she's got it handled. Mhmm. My dad, on the other hand, has a very different relationship with this sort of thing.
Amber Saunders:Mhmm.
Kate Northrup:And so I really have no information about what he would want. And and so I knew I needed to be the one to bring it up. And it felt really scary because it felt like if I brought it up, he would misinterpret it as, like, I'm wanting to have a conversation about my inheritance, which is not the conversation I'm wanting to have. I'm wanting to have a conversation about what are his desires so that my siblings and I and my bonus mom, his wife, they've been married for twenty years. She's amazing.
Kate Northrup:I want us all to you know, when it is his time to be able to come together in love for my dad, in love for each other, and grief. Not get into drama about this, that, or the other thing. Now I will say my bonus mom is a lawyer, so, like, I'm pretty sure they have this handled. Mhmm. However, I was scared Mhmm.
Kate Northrup:To have that conversation because I didn't want him to misinterpret it.
Amber Saunders:Mhmm.
Kate Northrup:I'm sure I'm not the only one. Mhmm. And so with your sage advice as an expert, what would you wanna tell people about how to frame that conversation with their elders so that they can pass along? Like, so that they can execute on that person's desires when they're gone?
Amber Saunders:Mhmm. That's a great question. I think it's all in how parents are the parents. They don't want to feel like they're not in control and they're not telling someone what to do. So if they feel like some kind of power is being taken away from them or they feel threatened, if if it you know, we had to tell my grandmother she couldn't drive.
Amber Saunders:You know, just taking freedoms away, things like that, they're going to be hostile towards it. But I think most parents want to help their children. So if it's like, I don't want to do this wrong. I don't want to make a decision that's not what you would want to happen and you're not giving me any information and I just need your help. If it comes from a place that it's really helping make it easier for you, then I think they'd give the information as opposed to, well, I'm doing this for you.
Amber Saunders:Well, I'm fine. I don't need an I don't need your help. You're the child. You don't have to help me. I have this handled.
Amber Saunders:If you if they feel like they're helping you, I think they're more willing to do it.
Kate Northrup:That's a good reframe. I really like that. So I I know a family where the mom died very unexpectedly, and she had multiple factors in her estate, a lot of real estate, a whole bunch of stuff going on. Mhmm. But it was unclear what exactly was meant to happen, whatever.
Kate Northrup:There were three kids. Mhmm. Adult children, all who have children. And because they hadn't had those conversations ahead of the time that she had passed, it ended up creating a lot of drama between the siblings who are just absolutely wonderful people and some estrangement for a while. I'm so grateful that it has now healed.
Kate Northrup:And in a case like that, what are some of the steps that they could have taken both before she passed and after to hopefully prevent some of that drama just for people listening who are in all sorts of different phases of this?
Amber Saunders:I think that people have to have the tough conversations, whether it's at Thanksgiving or the parent has to sit there and say, this is what I want. Because whatever animosities or tensions there might have been growing up, it will show up when the person's gone. I have a friend who there are three siblings, and one of them is estranged. And I don't think once the parents are gone, they're going to communicate. But the parents want them to have everything evenly and they don't think that that's fair.
Amber Saunders:And it's like, you can't tell a parent not to give something to their child. Right? But unless you all have that conversation and kind of work that then out ahead of once they're gone, it's all it's gonna be insane. And literally, don't think I think parents underestimate what how their children will behave if they don't have that conversation. Adult children, like you just have no idea because you're the one who probably is making everything okay right now.
Amber Saunders:But when you're not there, it's like they're not they can now say what they want to say and whatever animosities there were that hadn't been worked out. And I met a she's like a she was probably a death doula before there was such a thing. Was like a hospice reverend. And she said nobody cares about that when they're dying, it's the like, no one cares about any animosities they had. They just care about being around people that they love and all of those things.
Amber Saunders:And who doesn't want to be know that, you know, when you leave that your family is going to be fine. So you have to do that upfront Yeah. In order to make sure that happens because they might not work out that way if you don't.
Kate Northrup:Yeah. So that's if your loved one is living. Right? It's like, have the hard conversation. Lean in.
Kate Northrup:Work that stuff out ahead of time. And and I I wanna talk to you about some of the steps to take legally.
Amber Saunders:Mhmm.
Kate Northrup:But on the back end, let's say someone is in a situation where they didn't have the hard conversation, and now it is a mess, and there's, possibly lack of the correct paperwork and things are in probate or, you know, siblings are estranged now or, you know, misunderstandings. You can never ask a dead person what they wanted, so then, you know, you'll never actually know. Right? So what are some things that could make could not fix it because, like, you should have the conversation, but anyway, if you didn't, what would you recommend?
Amber Saunders:Decide what's the most important. I think it's just you have to decide is being connected to family important or having this thing? Because you can get more things. You might not ever get another sibling. You might not ever get another grandchild or any of those things.
Amber Saunders:And so if those cuff links or those whatever are more important than having a real then that's the choice you made and you're just gonna have to have that. But for most people, I don't think that would be the the case.
Kate Northrup:If you really ask yourself Mhmm. What would you rather have? This relationship or this item or this cash? Mhmm. Right?
Kate Northrup:There is always actually more where that came from. Mhmm. And what about it's such an interesting psychology, and I'm sure this comes up a lot in your practice, about heirlooms. Mhmm. You know, the grandmother's engagement ring or these cufflinks or this china or these items that do have inherent value, but they seem so much more valuable because of the memories and because they're connected to this other person, and people get really wrapped up emotionally
Amber Saunders:Mhmm.
Kate Northrup:In keeping these items. What do you think is going on there?
Amber Saunders:There is a attachment to the person. Like, this is my uncle's wedding ring. This is my grandmother's necklace, and I wear them every And single my cousin let me have it because he had other things from, but I just keep them because this reminds me of them, and I can keep it with me because the person is there or is no longer there for me to be able to see or hear or any of those things. And so I it just makes you feel like the person's still with you. But again, it goes back to it's not worth it.
Amber Saunders:It wouldn't be worth it to me if my cousin said he wanted the wedding ring, would just give him the wedding ring, and I'd get something else that I could keep. I'm not going to I'd rather have my family for Now, you know, you know, sometimes people just are we we get so attached to certain things, and it causes all sorts of problems. And we have to we we we will always have the memory, so it's not necessarily this thing that means so much. It's my memories of my grandmother. But, you know, the heirlooms help.
Amber Saunders:I just think that people should while they like heirlooms and all of those things, just realize that all of this is just stuff. Really, the most important part of our legacy is the memories that will leave with people and and the relationships and how we treated them on while we were here, and how we lived life, not the things that we're leaving. And so if we kind of look at it like that, then all of this stuff won't mean as much and cause as many as many problems.
Kate Northrup:It's so true. Yeah. Like, how can we hold on to the memories and not the not the things? And if we do have the things, wonderful, but, like, you know, hold them with an open
Amber Saunders:palm. Right.
Kate Northrup:How early is too early to start on your estate planning journey?
Amber Saunders:I'd say it's as soon as you get out of your parents' house, there's some things that you should do. Right? Like what? You know, if you have a child going to college, now they're they're an adult even though they're not an adult. And so having a power of attorney or healthcare so that you can still be a parent if something, God forbid, happened to them and you needed to be able to pay bills for them.
Amber Saunders:They might have their own bank account, but now that they're an adult, you can't go in there and just take care of things. So you might need to have something so that you can help your semi adult manage things if they're not able to. Or so that they know who's in charge at the hospital if there is an injury or things like that. Is that
Kate Northrup:called a healthcare directive?
Amber Saunders:Yeah. Okay. For the healthcare stuff. And then for the power of attorney. I think that's the main thing someone needs for, you know, someone who's doesn't have a lot of assets and it's just a child or something like that.
Amber Saunders:Yeah. Your adult child. And then I think one of the things that people should really have is like just an inventory. Maybe it's just a Google Sheet that says what you own. Because sometimes something is wrong and bills might need to be paid and no one knows where any of your stuff is.
Amber Saunders:They don't know where your passwords are. They don't know what bank accounts you have. They don't know what policies there are or anything like that. So just having a running list of that somewhere so it makes it easy for someone who has to handle your business. If you just have that before you have any assets, then cool.
Amber Saunders:It will make it in case of an emergency, we have something here, just go find this file and then that's it. Okay. And then just as you get older, when you have children, making sure you have guardianship documents in place. A will if you want things to go through probate. So it might change and evolve as you get older and accumulate more things depending on what you want to happen with those things.
Amber Saunders:But in general, everyone should have like a healthcare directive and power of attorney and at least a list of things so that people know who's in charge.
Kate Northrup:Okay. Like, a list of accounts, where the passwords are. Okay. That's really important. Yeah.
Kate Northrup:You know, one of the things that I teach is financial clarity.
Amber Saunders:Mhmm.
Kate Northrup:And this is an incredibly important step because many people I know, even who make good money, are financial avoiders. Mhmm. And they don't actually they wouldn't be able to tell you what accounts they have or what's in them or even how to log in Mhmm. In many cases. And so that step alone can actually be really empowering Mhmm.
Kate Northrup:Just to have the clarity of, like, this is what I have. This is where it is. This is how to access it. So that might even you know, I'm just this is occurring to me as we're talking. That might help somebody who is an avoider be like, actually, this is important because if something were to happen to you and you would need this support, then they would have it all sorted.
Kate Northrup:So you could actually lean into it from that perspective when maybe it's hard to do just on your own. Mhmm.
Amber Saunders:And I'm an avoider. Okay. So, like, having to do this with clients made me have to Because sit down and do I was like, well, maybe it'll go away if I and it doesn't. It doesn't go away.
Kate Northrup:I'm a recovering of recovered avoider.
Amber Saunders:Mhmm.
Kate Northrup:Every now and again, I slide back. But like recovering, you know, for sure. And let us be an example that like you can still be on top of these things even if your default is to be an avoider. That doesn't that's not a foregone conclusion. Okay.
Kate Northrup:So as soon as so power of attorney, health care directive, your list of accounts, whatever. Then you start okay. So you have kids. You gotta figure out who's gonna who would take care of them if something were to happen to you. Then you start accumulating assets, whether it's, you know, accounts, houses, whatever is going on, businesses, like, all of those things.
Kate Northrup:And so when someone comes to you, what would you say the most surprising thing is for them about the process?
Amber Saunders:The questions that I ask are not necessarily about, okay, how many accounts do you have and we're just gonna split it up. It's so what is important? Like, what do you want your children to be able to do with whatever you leave? Or well, you know, I want them to be able to have a good life, create something for okay. So do you wanna put some guardrails?
Amber Saunders:You wanna help them do that? Because there are statistics that show, you know, people leave inheritances and by the second generation, it might be gone. It might be because you just gave it to them outright and didn't give them any guidance or things like that. And if you are an avoider, might not be leaving them guidance about what to do with money or there might be some trauma with money and all of those things. Do you want to give them some guidance?
Amber Saunders:Do you want to put something there to make it a little easier for them in how they use it? Do you want to protect it from creditors or like how do you so really them having to think about, okay, it's not just giving this away. It's about what matter what's important to you and how you want them to be able to use this. Are we gonna give them tools and things like that? Or are you just gonna give them something and then they can go and it just depends on what you want.
Kate Northrup:I'm so glad you said that. So something that I don't see anybody talking about, other than you right now, is really the underbelly of generational wealth, which is so I come from a family where on one side, everybody is, like, an entrepreneur and sort of, like, figured it out, didn't come from money. And on the other side, there was several generations of generational wealth. By my generation, there's one summer house that is like has mushrooms growing out of the screen door. It's like it's sort of like it's not totally falling apart, but it's not not.
Kate Northrup:Mhmm. So things have you know, things changed since my whenever, wherever it originated. And what I noticed is that on my mom's side of the family, which is my mom's the only one of her siblings who graduated college.
Amber Saunders:Mhmm.
Kate Northrup:And everyone has created, like, a really beautiful life for themselves because embedded in their upbringing was ingenuity, resourcefulness, Here's how you look at the world and create value. And so it was really like the skills undercreating wealth and and, and creating, you know, an ability to make something out of nothing, essentially. So, like, that's been happening over there, and every single one of her siblings are thriving Mhmm. Financially, which is really cool. Yeah.
Kate Northrup:And I'm grateful to know all of them. They're all entrepreneurs. Other side of the family is just a different story with, you know, a whole bunch of different people and all wonderful. However, like, not that same, like, cool. Like, let me look at the world and see what I can make here.
Kate Northrup:My dad grew up with a tremendous amount of wealth, and there was quite a bit of trauma in his background because of addiction, and not him personally, but but his mom. And it's just so fascinating to see the difference because I see a group of people who were given so much money, and then a people group of people who were not.
Amber Saunders:Mhmm.
Kate Northrup:And the difference is profound, and I think it's because handed down with the money was not any education about where money comes from or how to steward it. Mhmm. It was just money. Now I don't know this personally, so I'm just, like, making it up. But that's what I surmised with these two very different examples of two very different families.
Kate Northrup:And as I create, you know, a life, and I think about my daughters, I'm like, of course, do I wanna create something that I would pass along and leave them? Yes, I do. However Mhmm. I'm very aware that I don't wanna just, like, pass along money. Mhmm.
Kate Northrup:I wanna pass I'd rather give them nothing other than an education about how you create value and turn nothing into something. Yeah. Like, for sure, for sure. And I mean, great. If there are some assets in there, wonderful.
Kate Northrup:But, like, not even necessarily because, like you said, there's always more where that came from.
Amber Saunders:There's always more.
Kate Northrup:So I'm really glad that you said that, and I think that we can have an assumption that having inherited wealth automatically is better. Can you talk to me a little bit more about any cases that you've seen with generational wealth where it's not automatically better. And I just wanna say, like Yeah. Obviously, passing along wealth is wonderful. I'm not saying it's bad in any way.
Kate Northrup:Mm-mm. However You can take
Amber Saunders:it for granted. Right? That we we assume that people know what to do with it just because they had it. But I think when you have a family who had to earn it, they've they look at it differently. Right?
Amber Saunders:And and the passing the education the money can be gone. The money can be spent. That education doesn't go anywhere, and so you can make it again. You can keep making the money over and over again teaching the man how to fish. I think in my family's example, one of the things that I think that people don't think about, but if they look back in the it might be in those examples.
Amber Saunders:Like, we had a pact. Nobody was going in a home. That's why my when my grandmother's dementia was in full swing, we put my her husband and her ex husband were in the house, like everybody was together. Now if she knew, she probably would have cussed us all out. But at that point she didn't remember and we didn't want to put anybody anywhere else.
Amber Saunders:So we we had enough room in the house, everyone was in there together. Wow. How many people? Grandmother, my grandfather, my step grandfather, my uncle was upstairs, and then the nurse came and took care of all of them Because we we were like, you're not going any anywhere. Incredible.
Amber Saunders:And so my mother and I, we all talked about it. Okay. This is what we're going to do. No one's going in a home. Like, we promise.
Amber Saunders:It's fine. I think that there are things that, I mean, I don't know if it's vocalized like the way we did that we were going to figure it out, but okay, you're going learn how to work hard. You're going to value this thing. This is what we stand for as a family. This is the kind of thing that we want to do.
Amber Saunders:You being conscious about giving your daughter's education so that they can make money or be happy or figure out whatever they want to be able to do. Yes, I can give you these things, but this is what matters to me as your mother, me passing this down to you. I think that if we're a little more conscious about that, then we can make sure that when they have it, they're not looking at it like, yeah, I got this thing and I can spend it and this is great. It's like, okay, this is something that my mother earned that she gave to me. So I need to be a good steward of it because it's not it matters to me what happens to it.
Amber Saunders:It mattered to my mother who she sold the house to because it was her grandmother's house. So she sold it to someone who she knew would take care of it. You're not going to just treat it like something that you're just going to make a profit from when you know what it means. And so I don't know that we always communicate what these things mean to us or what you know, if this is my life's work and it has created this life for us, then what I don't want you to do is just act like everything that I did didn't mean anything. And so I think children can see those things sometimes and and they might learn it by osmosis, but I think sometimes we have to talk about it and so that it's clearer and that we're purposefully educating them to make sure that they know how to take care of it and then they can pass it on.
Kate Northrup:Yeah. And like you said, like instructions.
Amber Saunders:Mhmm.
Kate Northrup:Okay. So this is and and I I know people who, you know, have inheritance of whatever from different things, and there's, like, all sorts of different guidelines and boundaries and rules of, like, okay. You get this now, and it's only to be spent on education and then this, that, and the other thing. And I think, like, just even the act Mhmm. Of thinking those things through with an estate lawyer, you know, with a financial team is such a profound exercise in getting closer to your heart
Amber Saunders:Mhmm.
Kate Northrup:And in getting closer to what matters to you. Because asking the sorts of questions that you ask of clients is, I'm sure, a pretty profound experience for them, and it's asking questions that we don't always think about every single day. And it's like, what well, great. What does matter to me? What are my values?
Kate Northrup:If I'm no longer here, what I what what would I do, and what do I want to be done with my wealth, with my assets as kind of like something I left behind and and as something that's like still carrying on my legacy? Mhmm. And I think we can be asking ourselves those questions before we have gathered up a bunch of assets. And in in my philosophy is the closer you get to the real meat of your values and like the taproot of who you are, the more magnetic you will become to being able to call in those assets because they're feeling gathered and magnetized to the clarity and the purpose of someone who's gonna steward them well and align their align their spending and their investing with their values.
Amber Saunders:Mhmm.
Kate Northrup:Yeah. And so it's this is such an important piece, and I think it's something that people avoid a lot just because of our own, you know, conditioning around death and and what it means. Something that's come up with another lawyer friend of mine who specializes in online business law, is that a lot of her a lot of people are starting to think like, oh, now I have AI, so like, I'm sure I can just, like, write my will with ChatGPT, or like create this, that, and that document. I'm sure it's fine. It's ChatGPT.
Kate Northrup:Like, it knows. Right? Okay. So tell me, can we be doing our estate planning with ChatGPT?
Amber Saunders:I think you I mean, I'd say there are some things that require humans just at the end of the day, And it might ask questions, it's pulling from resources that have been provided to it by humans. So it can give you something. There are plenty of websites that will allow you to do it yourself, but if they're not going to dig deep enough, it depends on what you want to do. And I think sometimes you get what you pay for. Like and it's it's the experience.
Amber Saunders:It's the it's the questions that are being asked of you. It is the getting that clarity that you're talking about because you walk out of there a different person when you know that you did this for your family, and you you have to think about all of these things, and it changes how you look at some of those relationships. At the end of our process, we allow we have clients do legacy interviews. And so they pick the questions, we sit down and talk to them, and we have to edit me out because I'll be crying or something like that. Because it's really profound to sit there and listen to them say, you know, I never thought about my legacy before, but this is what I want you to remember and this is what I feel like my life stood for and all of these things.
Amber Saunders:And for people to be able to have that, they can go in I think when you contemplate death, you know, it makes you live your life differently because you know every moment is not promised. That time that you get to play with your daughter is that moment and you might not get that again. So you're going look at that differently when you think about the fact that you might not be here. So I I mean, I think that is not going to come from AI.
Kate Northrup:No. Yeah. No. And, I mean, all of those reasons are so profound because they're so human. And then also logistically, like, a a legal document that chat GPT spat out at you is not necessarily accurate Mhmm.
Kate Northrup:And not necessarily gonna hold up in court, I would imagine.
Amber Saunders:Yeah. And I mean, it can probably tell you things like that. Can go to, you know, some of those websites that will allow you to put some information in and then maybe you can talk to a lawyer. I'd still have someone do it because death is such a human thing. I just would want to talk to another person about it and go through those things.
Amber Saunders:But for some people, if they're comfortable with it, that's fine. I just would never tell anyone, like, maybe not. Yeah. Would probably skip that.
Kate Northrup:Absolutely. As a as an estate lawyer, can you work with only people in your state, or can you work with people across state lines?
Amber Saunders:So I have co counsel in not all 50, but a lot of states. Okay. So I I have clients who are across The United States, and then I work with attorneys who are local, and then we get the the job done.
Kate Northrup:Okay. Great. So if if someone is looking and really wanting this kind of process that is very human, that is super value centered, that is gonna help them, like, actually take some incredibly important, I'm I'm gonna say healing steps and, like, make their experience of their life better, they could reach out to you. And if it can't be you, you would be able to refer. Yeah.
Kate Northrup:Absolutely. Okay. Amazing. And where would they do that?
Amber Saunders:My website is thesaundersfirm.com, and then our our number (678) 680-4336. They'll set up a call, and then I I I do the discovery call and facilitate everything.
Kate Northrup:So we'll put that in the
Amber Saunders:Okay. Show
Kate Northrup:So as we wrap up here, you know, knowing that you're you're speaking to an audience of all different ages, but mostly 35 to 65, primarily women. Right? So we are the caregivers. We are the people who end up taking care of the people.
Amber Saunders:Oh, yeah.
Kate Northrup:Right? Many of the logistics often, you know, come on our plate. What would you wanna say to this particular group about your line of work and what they need to do about it now?
Amber Saunders:It's always going to be us, in my opinion. It was my great grandmother, then my grandmother, then my mother. So I wouldn't leave it to anyone else. And we're worth the effort of trying to figure this out and giving, even if it's your parents, so that you have the space to be able to grieve in whatever way you need to without having to go rush to court and do all of those things. You can take that time, do all of those things.
Amber Saunders:So however difficult it is, you and your family are worth whatever time it takes to get that done.
Kate Northrup:So good. And the earlier, the better. The earlier Let's not wait until someone's sick or
Amber Saunders:until it's going on. To do it. Yeah. Because it's hard to make decisions.
Kate Northrup:Like, do it now when people are healthy. Mhmm. And and and present. Absolutely. Yeah.
Kate Northrup:Thank you for being here.
Amber Saunders:Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
Kate Northrup:Subscribe, leave a rating, leave a review. That's one of the best ways that you can ensure to spread the abundance of plenty with others. You can even text it to a friend and tell them to listen in. And if you want even more support to expand your abundance, head over to katenorthrup.com/breakthroughs where you can grab my free money breakthrough guide that details the biggest money breakthroughs from some of the top earning women I know, plus a mini lesson accompanying it with my own biggest money breakthroughs and a nervous system healing tool for you to expand your abundance. Again, that's over at katenorthwick.com/breakthroughs.
Kate Northrup:See you next time.