The Sunmico B2B Marketing Podcast for Tech Scale-Ups is a strategic resource designed specifically for CEOs, founders, and marketing leaders in the B2B tech sector.
In an industry defined by rapid change, staying ahead requires more than just ”great tech” – it requires actionable frameworks and fresh perspectives on growth, positioning, marketing, branding, transformation, GTM (Go-To-Market), demand and lead generation.
The Sunmico Podcast is curated by Mimmis Cleeren, CEO of Sunmico. With more than 25 years of international experience in B2B marketing, business transformation and growth, Mimmis uses this platform to challenge traditional marketing norms and provide tech leaders with the blueprints they need to scale.
We know time is a scarce resource for any tech executive. To deliver deep marketing and scale-up expertise in a format that fits your schedule, we have pioneered an AI-native production workflow:
• Original source material: Every episode is built upon Sunmico’s proprietary research, articles, lessons learned from tech industry events, and real-world consulting cases.
• Curated insights: Our AI hosts, Mike and Marie, synthesize complex B2B topics into high-impact, 10-20-minute briefings.
• Continuous learning: By leveraging AI, we can transform our latest strategic reflections into audio content at the speed of the market.
Visit https://www.sunmico.com/ for more B2B marketing resources and consulting services to help you grow.
Hi, and welcome to the SUNMICO AI podcast, where we explore strategic marketing topics that are relevant for scaling and growing your business. I'm Mimmis Cleeren, CEO of SUNMICO. We are a B2B marketing consultancy firm specializing in helping tech companies with transformation and growth. We hope you enjoy today's topic.
Mimmis:The discussion will be led by Mike and Marie. Marie is a version of me generated through an AI tool, and Mike is my AI colleague.
Marie:Welcome to the deep dive.
Mike:Great to be here.
Marie:Okay, so you sent us this huge pile of notes, takeaways from the Nordic Software Summit and Nordic Tech Week 2025.
Mike:Yeah. A massive stack. Loads of insights.
Marie:Well, our job here is to really boil it all down, isn't it? Cut through the noise.
Mike:Exactly.
Marie:Give you, our listener, the absolute core, the most actionable stuff for scaling up a tech business, specifically B2B SaaS, right?
Mike:That's the focus.
Marie:Yeah.
Mike:Because look, lots of companies start. We know that.
Marie:Yeah.
Mike:But making that leap to true scale, the numbers show it's incredibly tough. Many just don't make it.
Marie:Right. It's a huge drop off. We're not talking about just, you know, tweaking things for a bit more growth. This is about building a proper global engine.
Mike:Mhmm.
Marie:So today we're gonna cover, well, foundation, maybe some surprising bits there, then the actual blueprint for getting things done.
Mike:Yeah. Turning strategy into daily actions.
Marie:Then that big leap going international, super challenging.
Mike:Definitely. And finally, something critical but often overlooked. How the leader, the founder, has to evolve. You can't stay the same.
Marie:Okay. Let's dive in. And you mentioned a surprising insight first, something for the R&D heavy founders.
Mike:Yeah. Maybe the place to start, the thing that really jumped out is something Verne Harnish said.
Marie:Oh, the scaling up guy, Scaling Up framework.
Mike:Yeah. Him. He made this pretty bold claim at the Summit, almost like shocking for a tech crowd.
Marie:Okay. What was it?
Mike:He basically said the number one key factor, the absolute top thing for scaling up is marketing.
Marie:Marketing, really? Not, you know, the tech itself or the product?
Mike:Marketing. Number one. And look, that really pushes against the grain for a lot of tech companies, doesn't it?
Marie:It totally does. The classic Silicon Valley idea is build amazing tech and customers will just appear.
Mike:Right. The build it and they will come fallacy. But Harnish's point, backed by data we saw, is that companies pour millions into R&D, into perfecting features.
Marie:Which is important, obviously.
Mike:Of course. But then, even years after launch, they're spending, as he put it, nickels on marketing, on actually telling the world, building the brand, generating leads consistently.
Marie:So you end up with maybe the best product nobody's ever heard of or the messaging is all over the place.
Mike:Exactly. You've got no engine for growth no matter how good the core product is.
Marie:Yeah.
Mike:It's fundamentally a distribution and awareness problem.
Marie:Okay. So if that's the flaw, the fix has to come from the top, right?
Mike:Yeah.
Marie:The CEO needs to own this.
Mike:Absolutely. Harnish was really strong on this. It needs CEO buy-in, like immediately. His very specific advice: every CEO should block out a minimum of one hour every single week, just for a meeting focused purely on marketing.
Marie:One hour minimum. Wow.
Mike:Yep. Branding, strategy, the actual numbers, the results. You as the leader cannot just delegate how the world sees your company. You have to be involved.
Marie:Okay. So marketing is the engine. What about the fuel? I remember you highlighting something from the Nordics. Sisu.
Mike:Sisu. The Finnish concept. It came up quite a bit.
Marie:It's usually translated as grit or perseverance. Right?
Mike:It is, but it's, well, it's deeper than that. It's this incredible determination, this courage, especially when things get really, really tough, like impossibly difficult.
Marie:And that's the mindset you need for scaling globally.
Mike:That's the argument. You need that level of sheer willpower to push through the inevitable setbacks of trying to build something huge.
Marie:And it connects to this idea of shifting away from, what was the phrase, small minds, small plans, small asks.
Mike:Exactly that. To build something big, a global company, you need to think differently from the start. Big ideas, big plans, and crucially, big asks. You need to ask for more from your team, from investors, from yourself.
Marie:Which leads to setting those, frankly, terrifying goals, like 10x or even 30x growth.
Mike:Yeah. And look, it sounds a bit like motivational poster stuff, maybe, but it's actually very practical.
Marie:How so?
Mike:If you don't set those huge, audacious, long term goals, you can't define a total addressable market, a TAM, that's big enough to attract serious investment.
Marie:Ah, right. Big goals justify big funding needs. Small goals, small interests from VCs.
Mike:Precisely. You need that massive ambition to even get the resources required for the scaling journey.
Marie:But still. 10x, 30x, how do you keep going when you inevitably hit walls? Failure must be common.
Mike:That's where the Sisu comes back in. It's about resilience. The example that stuck with me was Rovio.
Marie:The Angry Birds creators?
Mike:Yeah. Before Angry Birds hit it massive, they had apparently developed, get this, over 50 other games.
Marie:50?
Mike:50 games that basically went nowhere on a global scale. Angry Birds was their fifty second attempt.
Marie:Wow. 52 tries, that's serious perseverance. That's Sisu in action.
Mike:It really is. That kind of conviction, that willingness to just keep going despite failure after failure.
Marie:Yeah.
Mike:That's the fuel.
Marie:Okay, that's humbling. So we have the fuel, this mindset, this SISU, and we know marketing is the engine. Now let's get into the structure, the actual blueprint for making it happen.
Mike:Right.
Mike:And here we come back to Verne Harnish again and his four cornerstones for scaling. He uses the acronym PSEC.
Marie:PSEC. Okay, what does that stand for?
Mike:It's People, Strategy, Execution, and Cash.
Marie:People, Strategy, Execution, Cash (PSEC).
Mike:The four pillars.
Marie:Exactly. These are the foundations. If any one of them is weak or wobbles, the whole thing can come crashing down.
Mike:So what does a wobble look like in practice, like, for People? A wobble in? People could be keeping someone in a key role who was great for the startup phase, but just doesn't have the skills or mindset for global scale. Or maybe hiring too fast, diluting the culture.
Marie:Okay. And Cash. Is that just running out of money?
Mike:Not just that. It could be poor cash flow management, even if you're profitable on paper. Like your cash conversion cycle is too long. It's about the operational flow of money.
Marie:Got it. So People, Strategy, Execution, Cash - where's the biggest wobble usually? What did the folks at the Summit say?
Mike:Well, this was fascinating. They did a live poll - Mentimeter, I think - and the overwhelming result for these tech scale-ups was that the biggest struggle is Execution.
Marie:Execution. But wait, if they've got smart people, presumably a decent strategy and enough cash, why is executing the strategy the hardest part?
Mike:That's the million dollar question, isn't it?
Marie:Yeah.
Mike:It often boils down to a failure in prioritization and accountability, meaning the strategy gets agreed. Maybe in a big off-site meeting, everyone nods. But translating that high level agreement into consistent, focused, measurable action week in week out across the whole company, that's where it breaks down.
Marie:People get caught up in the day to day fires, the urgent stuff crowds out the important stuff.
Mike:Exactly. Business as usual takes over, the big strategic pushes get delayed.
Marie:So we need a system, a way to connect that big vision to like what someone actually does on Monday morning.
Mike:Precisely. We need that blueprint. And Jenny Arnström shared a really clear methodology for this. It's about working backwards from the vision.
Marie:Okay. How does that work?
Mike:You start way out, ten plus years. Define the big picture, your core vision, your purpose, your foundational core values, and crucially your BHAG.
Marie:The big hairy audacious goal, that massive 10X or 30X target we talked about.
Mike:Yep. That's your North Star. Then you bring it closer, mid-term, say three years out.
Marie:What defines that three year horizon?
Mike:That's where you nail down your strategic position in the market. Your business model. Who exactly are your core customers?
Mike:And really critically, what makes you different? Why do customers choose you? This acts as a filter.
Marie:A filter for decisions. Okay. And then we get down to the nitty gritty, right? The short term.
Mike:Now we get tactical. This is where execution lives or dies. You define clear annual objectives with measurable KPIs.
Marie:Okay. Yearly goals.
Mike:Then you break those down into quarterly objectives. And here's the absolute key step. The thing that prevents that execution wobble. You have to ruthlessly prioritize.
Marie:Prioritize based on?
Mike:Based on biggest impact. What one or two things this quarter will make the biggest difference in moving towards that annual goal? Not the easiest thing, not the loudest request, but the highest impact initiative.
Marie:And from those quarterly priorities?
Mike:Then a weekly plan. Specific activities, tasks, meetings that are directly aimed at hitting those quarterly objectives.
Marie:Okay.
Mike:It's about committing to, as they said, grow the company a little every day.
Marie:Wow. So it takes that huge scary BHAG and makes it, well, makes it into this week's to do list, basically.
Mike:It connects the vision to the ground level, makes it actionable, makes it accountable.
Marie:Okay, so you've got your SISU, your marketing engine is running, your PSEC structure is solid, and you have this execution rhythm. Now it's time to look outward.
Mike:Right.
Mike:The big leap. Internationalization. Conquering new frontiers.
Marie:But hang on, before you even book a flight, there was a really strong piece of advice, almost a rule, that came up again and again.
Mike:Oh yeah, nail it before you scale it. Jeanette Carlson really hammered this home.
Marie:Nail it before you scale it. Meaning?
Mike:Meaning going global is like putting your company under a microscope. Any existing weaknesses in your product, your processes, your team, your execution, they don't just get bigger. They get magnified like tenfold.
Marie:What seems like a small crack at home becomes a massive chasm internationally.
Mike:Exactly. It gets way worse under the pressure of new markets, new cultures, distance, complexity. So fix your house before you try to build an extension overseas.
Marie:Makes sense. So assuming you think you've nailed it, what's the checklist? How do you know if you're actually ready? We heard some specifics from Time Edit and Monterro, right?
Mike:Yeah, they get some really concrete prerequisites. First, demonstrated Product-Market fit. You need proof your core market actually wants and pays for what you have.
Marie:Is there a number for that? Like a revenue threshold?
Mike:They suggested a helpful, though not absolute, guideline being north of 3,000,000 in annual recurring revenue (ARR).
Marie:Okay, 3M ARR, that's just some maturity, some validation, what else?
Mike:Second, you need a genuinely healthy and happy customer base. Not just customers, but referenceable customers. People who will vouch for you, who love your product.
Marie:Because those first international customers will want proof.
Mike:Absolutely. And third, you need total buy in from the organization and the owners. Everyone needs to understand this is a long term investment, it will cost time and money, and it probably won't show results immediately.
Marie:Right, it's a marathon, not a sprint. Patience and resources are key.
Mike:Definitely. Okay, so you've checked the boxes, you're ready. Now, where do you go?
Marie:Good question. Do you just pick the country next door?
Mike:The advice was clear. Strategy is one market at a time. Don't try to boil the ocean. Focus your resources.
Marie:One market. Got it. And how do you choose that one?
Mike:Choose opportunity over proximity.
Marie:Don't just go to Germany because it's close to Sweden, for example.
Mike:Right. Follow the need. Where is the customer pain you solve most acute? Where is the market opportunity genuinely the largest or most receptive? Go there, even if it's further away.
Marie:Okay. Follow the pain. And once you've picked that market, how do you land those crucial first customers?
Mike:Go super narrow on your ideal customer profile, your ICP. So narrow, the advice was that your first five customers in that new market should describe the exact same problem, the same pain point you solved.
Marie:Wow, laser focus.
Mike:Laser focus. And then secure those first reference customers at any cost. Whatever it takes, discounts, extra support, customization, you need those flagship logos and case studies to build credibility locally.
Marie:Social proof is everything internationally.
Mike:It really is. And tactically, beyond just getting sales, they emphasize sending actual product experts from your home base initially.
Marie:To ensure deep understanding.
Mike:Yes and to bring that core DNA. Hire local sales people for market knowledge but have product deeply involved in those early deals. And one really underestimated thing.
Marie:What's that?
Mike:Localization is more than translation. You need to build integrations with the local tech stack, CRMs, the ERPs, the other tools people use there. You have to fit into their existing digital ecosystem.
Marie:Become part of their workflow, not just another separate tool.
Mike:Exactly. Makes you feel much more native.
Marie:Speaking of native, going international inevitably forces changes, especially around something as fundamental as your brand.
Mike:Oh, huge changes. Big challenges here. Do you keep your original name if it's hard to pronounce or mean something weird elsewhere? Do you translate your tagline? Do you need a completely new international brand?
Marie:And how do you keep the brand consistent globally, visually, but maybe adapt the tone or imagery for local cultures? It sounds like a minefield.
Mike:It can be. And this kind of big change like a rebrand or rolling out new international processes isn't just about process mechanics. It's about people, managing the human side of that change.
Marie:Which is often the hardest part. People resist change.
Mike:Naturally. And that's where a structured approach like the Proshi ADKAR Model comes in. It's a framework specifically for managing the people side of change.
Marie:ADKAR. Okay, another acronym, let's break it down. ADKAR, what's the first A?
Mike:A is for awareness. You have to make people aware of why the change is necessary, what's the business reason, what's the market driver. If you're rebranding, share the analysis.
Marie:Okay, establish the why, then D.
Mike:D is for desire. This is critical.
Marie:Yeah.
Mike:You need to build desire by answering the what's in it for me question.
Marie:Yeah.
Mike:W I I M . What are the benefits for the individual, for the team? How does this change make their work better or the company stronger in a way that benefits them?
Marie:Got it. Build buy-in by showing personal relevance. Next is K.
Mike:K is knowledge. This is the how. You need to provide the training, the information, the skills needed to actually implement the change. How do we use the new brand guidelines? What are the steps in the new process?
Marie:So, Awareness (why), Desire (what's in it for me), Knowledge (how). What's second A?
Mike:The second A is ability. This is where knowledge turns into action. It's about providing the opportunity, the resources, and the support for people to actually demonstrate the ability to do things the new way.
Marie:Like those brand clinics you mentioned earlier, practical help.
Mike:Exactly. Hands on support to convert old materials, practice new process, removing barriers to implementation.
Marie:Okay. And finally, R.
Mike:R is for reinforcement. And honestly, this is a step that so often gets missed, but it's absolutely vital to make the change stick.
Marie:Why is it so vital? What happens if you skip it?
Mike:The change doesn't last. People drift back the old ways, the comfortable habits. Reinforcement is about ongoing support, recognition, maybe celebrating successes, addressing lingering issues, and embedding the change into performance metrics or incentives. It makes the new way the normal way.
Marie:Without R, all the effort on A, D, K, and A can just fizzle out?
Mike:Pretty much. You lose the momentum in the investment.
Marie:Okay. ADKAR are really useful framework for any big change, not just international branding.
Marie:But all of this, the execution, the international push, managing change, it all comes back to leadership, doesn't it?
Mike:Absolutely. And the point made very forcefully by R. Michael Anderson was that the leader must evolve as the company scales.
Marie:The founder who got the company off the ground can't be the same person leading a global scale-up.
Mike:Cannot be. It requires fundamental shifts in how they operate, how they see themselves, and where they spend their time. He outlined three critical shifts.
Marie:And these sound like they might be tough personally for a founder.
Mike:Very much so, because it often involves letting go of what you were initially best at.
Marie:Okay. Shift number one.
Mike:Identity. You have to shift from being the functional expert, maybe the best coder, the star salesperson, the product visionary who knew every detail to becoming the overarching leader.
Marie:Meaning you stop doing that old job, even if you love it.
Mike:You have to. Your value is no longer in being the best at something specific, but in leading the whole organization. Clinging to that old expert identity holds the company back.
Marie:Wow, okay. Letting go of the expertise comfort zone. What's shift two?
Mike:Role.
Mike:This follows from Identity. You shift from being the primary doer, the person involved in everything to becoming a strategic delegator.
Marie:Delegating the important stuff, not just minor tasks.
Mike:Exactly. Your job becomes focusing only on the highest impact strategic activities that only you can do and empowering your team, trusting them to handle the rest. It's about leverage, not personal output.
Marie:That requires a lot of trust, which leads nicely into shift three.
Mike:Shift three: Mindset. You move from feeling you need to know every single detail, control every decision, to providing trust and direction.
Marie:So setting the vision, the values, the culture, and then trusting the team to figure out the how.
Mike:Precisely. Defining the what and the why, and relying on your team's expertise to execute. It's about letting go of that need for absolute control, which just doesn't scale.
Marie:These are big internal shifts for a leader. Identity, Role, Mindset.
Mike:Huge. And that evolved leadership style directly impacts execution too. Leaders need to focus on strategic impact, not just reacting to internal noise.
Marie:What do you mean by internal noise?
Mike:Anderson talked about prioritizing safe wins.
Marie:Safe wins?
Mike:Yeah. Focusing development and resources on solving common, significant problems that, you know, customers will pay for, things that clearly align with the strategy and actively avoiding the trap of building things just because the loudest people in the room internally demanded or because one specific, maybe large client is asking for a custom feature that derails the roadmap.
Marie:Stick to the strategic path, solve real market problems, don't get distracted by squeaky wheels.
Mike:That's the essence of effective execution leadership at scale.
Marie:It all comes back to that Sisu, that ambition, that willingness to make tough choices and evolve. I love that quote that came out of Nordic Tech Week.
Mike:Oh, the one about delusion.
Marie:Yeah. You're only delusional until you succeed, then you're a genius.
Mike:It perfectly captures the mindset you need for this kind of journey, doesn't it?
Marie:It really does. Okay, so what an incredible amount of ground we've covered. Let's quickly recap the playbook we've built here for you, the listener.
Mike:We started with marketing not as an afterthought, but as the number one key factor demanding CEO attention.
Marie:Right. Then the PSEC framework - People, Strategy, Execution, Cash - as the core structure.
Mike:And we saw Execution is often the biggest hurdle. So we detailed that blueprint. Working back from the ten year BHAG to three year strategy to quarterly priorities focused on impact down to weekly actions.
Marie:Then the international leap, nail it before you scale it. The readiness checklist, 3M plus ARR, happy customers, organizational buy-in.
Mike:Pick one market based on opportunity, not proximity. Go narrow on the ICP, get references at any cost, integrate locally.
Marie:And managing the inevitable change, like branding, using the ADKAR Model: Awareness, Desire, Knowledge, Ability, and crucial Reinforcement.
Mike:And underpinning it all, the leader's own evolution. Shifting identity from expert to leader, role from doer to delegator, and mindset from control to trust and direction, focusing on those safe wins.
Marie:Fantastic summary. Before we wrap up, were there any final thoughts from the sources on specific Nordic advantages or maybe challenges in this scaling game?
Mike:Yeah. Of course a few points stood out. The big advantage is definitely what they call the Nordic trust factor.
Marie:Trust factor.
Mike:This global perception that Nordic companies are reliable, honest, they do what they say they'll do. In uncertain global times, that's apparently a massive B2B differentiator. Trust is currency.
Marie:That makes sense. A competitive edge built on reputation. What about challenges?
Mike:Two main ones mentioned were: 1) a lack of coordinated large scale capital within The Nordics, which sometimes forces the most successful scale-ups to look elsewhere, maybe the US, for that big growth funding.
Marie:Right. A potential funding gap at the later stages.
Mike:And the 2nd was talent retention, especially top engineering and entrepreneurial talent from abroad. There was talk about needing immigration reforms, maybe things like easier long term residency for specialized tech graduates to stop the brain drain.
Marie:Interesting structural points. Okay. So we've covered a massive amount. But if there's one thread running through everything, especially from that audience poll, it's execution. Getting it done is the hardest part of hitting those huge 10x BHAGs.
Mike:Absolutely. The strategy is one thing, doing it is another.
Marie:So we want to leave you, our listener, with a final thought to really chew on. If great execution means turning that ten year vision into this week's to do list.
Mike:Mhmm.
Marie:What is the single most critical high impact activity related to your long term strategy that you are putting off this week? What task, if you did it, would unlock the the next step, but you're delaying it?
Mike:What's holding back your whole vision right now on your weekly plan?
Marie:Something to think about.
Mike:Definitely. Dig deep on that one, and we'll catch you on the next deep dive.
Mimmis:That concludes today's deep dive into B2B marketing strategy. Visit sunmico.com for more resources. This episode was AI generated using NotebookLM from materials created by SUNMICO. There may be some strange pronunciations of certain names and concepts by the AI generated voices. Thank you for listening.