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Market Pulse is a monthly podcast by Equifax, in partnership with Moody’s Analytics. Equifax hosts bring you interviews with industry experts on the latest economic and credit insights that can help drive better business decisions. Whether you’re in financial, mortgage, auto or another service industry, we help make sense of the latest economic conditions that impact you. This podcast series supplements our Market Pulse webinars, which occur on the first Thursday of each month.
Welcome to the Market Pulse
Podcast. I'm your host, Jesse Hardin.
I'm a member of the Equifax
advisory team, and as a group,
we identify economic considerations.
We leverage data and analytics to
translate that information into industry
insights.
This helps us make recommendations
to support our clients
during economic uncertainty and to
really uncover growth opportunities in
consumer and commercial
credit risk spaces.
I'm pleased to welcome our usual cast
of characters. I've got Dave Soka. Hey,
Dave.
Hey, Jesse. How are you?
Hey, doing well. I've got Tom O'Neill.
Good afternoon, Jesse.
Hey, Tom. And last, and certainly not
least we have Maria Urtubey. Hey, Maria.
Hi. Good morning. Still here, ?
Yeah, there you go. Yeah,
I forgot about that.
And then we've got a voice missing today.
So Emmaline Aliff is is on vacation.
We we actually do let our people go on
vacation. So she's on special.
I thought. Thought it was special.
Assignment.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Hopefully it's a
good place. So how's everybody doing?
I know there's a lot going on right now.
Like what I, I anything happening?
Yeah, like, well, baseball's,
baseball's going again. Oh.
The important stuff, right?
Yeah, absolutely. Well, yeah.
Yeah. No, there could be, there
could be undertones to that. Yeah.
There's a little bit going on
with the economy, I would say.
Maybe a thing or two.
Yeah.
And my football team, Liverpool
is nine points away, I believe,
from winning the leagues. So two or three
more games, and we got it in the bag.
And that's not a knock on on other
football teams that people on this
podcast may or may not be supporting.
Yeah. That, that we'll not speak of. Yes.
Yeah. So for the listeners, we've got
we've got actually four on the, on the,
the team here that are that,
as Dave said, football fans,
I would say they're soccer fans,
but either, either here nor there.
Well, good. Well, so I wanna do, you know,
when we think about where
we've gone with you know,
with things related to the economy,
what I'd like to do today is really
set the stage for a discussion around
how things have evolved in, you know,
in the us especially with the
macroeconomic picture of where we've,
where we've gone. There's certainly
a lot to unpack. You know,
when we think about the
recent events that we've,
that we've seen when we started
in January, I think there's,
there's a lot of momentum that we saw,
a lot of optimism building with the
economy. And it's almost like then, wham,
it's like this policy change and,
and economic changes that
really kind of, you know,
changed the overall outlook
maybe to some extent and to some,
maybe not to others you know, but what
I'd like to do today is, is, you know,
kind of uncover what we've
seen, do a, do a deeper dive,
and we'll talk you know,
we'll talk a little bit more about
where we see things you know,
kind of playing out there.
Before we do that though,
I want to take a quick a quick break
and we'll we'll let you hear from our
friends at Moody's and,
and going through some of the important
economic and consumer metrics that that
are relevant today.
The global trade war has escalated sharply
driving the effective tariff rate to
levels not seen in over a century.
Business and consumer confidence have
weakened supply chains are under strain,
and global investment is stalling. The
labor market remains resilient for now.
March saw stronger than
expected gain of 228,000 jobs,
but hiring is slowing and public
sector layoffs loom. Meanwhile,
the unemployment rate ticked up to 4.2%
as labor force participation approved
inflation cooled in March with
headline CPI falling 0.1%,
and core easing to 2.8% year over year.
But with tariffs set to push costs higher,
the reprieve may prove short-lived
now to monetary policy.
The Fed is holding steady for now watching
for the net impact of tariffs on both
prices and employment before easing.
Our baseline is that the US
economy avoids recession,
assuming it deescalation on
trade, but the risks are rising.
A prolonged conflict could erode the
United States safe haven status and push
the economy into a downturn.
Thanks, Moody's. So,
it's sort of hard to escape the news
cycle right now with the economy.
We think about where
the markets have gone.
When you see the s and p and the
Nasdaq and the Dow, you know,
some of those are off almost 15%.
We see some of the confidence surveys
whether it's the University of Michigan or
it's the whether it's the conference,
board surveys you know, kind of
those, those stories, you know,
show that we've seen
decreases in in confidence and
this notion of uncertainty
building in the economy.
And so I think the bulk of this podcast,
what we want to do is we want address
those changes in the, you know,
in the economic landscape. But I, I
think we want to go a little deeper.
We want to talk about
some of the key drivers.
We want to focus on what it means,
but then we want to focus on the
impact to consumers and businesses.
And then, you know, really focus on
recommendations that we can make. So,
so what are the recommendations
that we want, you know, we want you,
the listener to understand as it
relates to the portfolios that you that
you manage. So a good example would be,
we want to find a practice or two that
we would suggest you look at maybe to
help mitigate some of the impacts that
we're feeling right now in the economy.
So that said, does that sound like
a decent plan team? Yes, it does.
Sounds like quite the undertaking.
Yeah. It, it is a lot. Yeah, certainly.
So, okay. Well, let's get started then.
So I think the best thing to do would
be to start out and just to address how
did we go from a consensus of kind of
stronger economic growth to where we are
right now, which is that we're probably
feeling a little more headwinds,
a little more economic uncertainty. Dave,
can I ask you to maybe
kick off on that one?
Sure. Jesse. So, so job security,
spending power and inflation,
what was looking rosy a month
ago, maybe a couple weeks ago now,
has us rethinking everything,
the American consumer as well as
businesses are reading the news,
hearing the announcements, and are now
suddenly concerned about the future.
Most people and businesses prefer
to live and operate with a degree of
certainty in their lives, to have this
much uncertainty thrust upon the economy.
Certainly muddles the waters in terms
of an outlook for the rest of the year,
but obviously,
businesses as well as consumers have
had plans and I would say monitor
the plans and act accordingly for changes.
Yeah. Interesting. Dave, I, you know, I,
as I was thinking about it a little
bit further with what you were saying,
I think it's, it's sort of ironic
because when we think about the,
the data that we're seeing,
there's almost like this juxtaposition
between hard economic data and
the soft data, which is kinda
like that consumer survey,
that consumer sentiment data. You know,
it seems like the hard data's not really
indicating that there's there's as much
to worry about the, the soft data.
The consumer data's maybe telling
a little bit different story.
So it almost seems like you
know, are we you know, are,
are we feeling like consumers are really
going to get there in terms of you know
are they really gonna act on that
sentiment that they're that they're
expressing?
Yeah. And, and Jesse, I see it as,
as an interesting mix of that hard
and soft data that you referenced,
not just now, but, but really
what we've been through
it's easy to say for the past year, but
really for, for the past five years, we,
we, we can go back to the beginning
of, of the pandemic and say, we've,
we've been seeing this uncertain
mix of hard and soft data for,
for that length of time. And, and
we see that manifest itself in, in,
you know, the consumer sentiment that
you were talking about, you know,
if people feel okay and,
and, but not great. And,
and how is that impacted
by headlines? You know,
we see things like inflation
is, it's under control,
but it's not quite dead yet. And we,
we have all of these areas
that, that are sort of gray.
But, but the nice thing is data
is still our friend, friend.
Through all of this, we can still
look at what's actually transpired.
And while no one, none of us at least
have, have that crystal ball to say,
here's what's going to
happen in the months ahead,
we can be pretty intelligent about
seeing what the ramifications of all the
things that we have been through over
the last five years and see what the
impact is on not, not
just consumers in mass,
but different populations,
different cohorts and,
and different segments of the society as
well as, you know, different, you know,
small business and commercial enterprises.
Yeah. Tom exactly that
it's been five years.
So are we still feeling this uncertainty?
What are the reasons behind
the consumer sentiment,
and why is this soft data showing
four consecutive months of decline?
And is it just a sentiment, as
you said, consumers are reacting,
they're being more cautious,
they're cutting back on spending,
even assessing if and when to make
big purchases. Is it the right time?
All these behaviors, as you
said, manifesting that sentiment,
not just standalone sentiments we've
been discussing internally and how it
shows, for example,
in the big spread of consumers
reactions some needing to
make the car purchase and acting quickly
given the impact on car, car tariffs,
others not faced with a need,
postponing the big purchase,
not at this moment
sticking to necessities.
Yeah, and I'm, I'm raising my
hand. I'm one of those that,
that went out and took advantage of
the, the car purchase while I could.
So definitely something that, that
we've seen and makes a lot of sense.
So let's let's switch gears
and talk about, you know,
probably arguably one of the you know,
one of the biggest impacts that we're
fee that, that we're seeing right now,
and that's tariffs. So I'm
gonna start, Tom with you then,
if I could maybe talk a little bit more
about the importance of tariffs and the
potential impact that we see both to
American consumers and business owners.
Yeah. So, so the, the basic
answer to that, what is a tariff?
Tariffs are a charge on, on imports
or exports depending upon the country,
you know, levying the tariffs.
They are an additional fee.
And, and, and that, that
fee is placed on the,
the ability to bring in goods
and services from other places.
And the impact to the consumers and to
businesses here in the United States
really depends on the size of,
of those tariffs and what those
tariffs are and, and what they're on.
You know, it could be on,
on a particular item that's of
essential need and that there's no real
substitute for. So it's
not something that,
that the consumer can easily switch to
buying something different or buying a
domestic version of that. And
in those cases, that, that,
that additional cost is going to be felt
very directly on the consumer or the
business making those purchases.
Or it could be something where there
is a lot of flexibility. You know,
maybe there is the, an alternative to
drive towards a domestic version of it,
you know, that's not incurring that price.
So it, it's, it, it is one of those,
it depends types answers. But,
but essentially it is an
increase in the cost of those,
those different items.
And as we've been seeing
the impact of,
of what that is isn't gonna
be felt until we actually see
what, what actually plays out. You
know, what are those going to be? What,
what is the, what is the sustainability
of those, those tariffs, you know,
is it something that that there's
going to be reciprocation on?
Is there going to be resolution on those?
So, so ultimately the impact, what,
what, what flows into the hard data
that we're going to be seeing, you know,
will take some time to, to
manifest itself, but as,
as I was mentioning before,
we can at least look at some
parallels, for instance,
like some of the inflationary periods
that we went through and say, okay,
if some of these things come
to pass, if we see, you know,
increases in affordability
issues, what has been the impact?
What sense can we make from that? What,
what strategies can we
take to account for that?
Yeah, Tom, I use kind of one of the, the
words that I love to use with my kids.
And it goes back to the, it's not
a one size fits all stories. It,
it truly depends,
and I'm gonna kind of highlight
business as well as consumers.
And so for businesses kind of
relying on overseas suppliers,
the impact potentially is really huge.
Think finished product manufacturers or
even your local restaurant who sources
product and supplies from other countries
shifting to families.
It could mean fewer tree toys
under the Christmas tree this year,
the cost of toys imported from China
will be at least 50% higher given the
current levels.
So that added cost to a household budget
could result in half as many toys under
the tree this year. It all
boils down to the consumer,
the business,
and where they make purchases from and
where those products originate from.
Yeah, that's, that's interesting, Dave.
I, I know when I'm talking to customers,
I get a lot of questions about like,
how do I measure the impact of tariffs?
And I was thinking about a study
that Yale brought up. It was a,
a study from the Yale
Budget Lab. And there was a,
an impact graph that was,
that was really telling to me,
and it looked at the impact
of overall disposable income.
And Tom, I think when you talked
about the definition of tariff,
I think we know that tariffs can
tend to be a regressive tax on
on consumers, right? You know, the,
the idea that it's that we will see
more of an impact on disposable income
from lower income households.
And that's that's always a worry.
I think we've heard economists
we work with, with Moody's a lot,
and one of the things that we've heard
is there's a rough estimate that you can
use, which is for every
sustained percentage point
increase in the tariff rate,
we would potentially see that inflation
could be impacted by 10 basis points.
And GDP by seven basis points
to the negative. That's,
that's kind of a lot of math. The way
I boil it down is really the impact to,
you know, to us as
Americans is that, you know,
things can be more expensive and,
and really, it, it, you know, it may,
it may you know, drive the,
the overall outcome that consumers
like, like all of us you know, have.
And so I think that's you know,
certainly when we think about the
overall impact, that's one that I,
that I watch just because
it's it's, you know, one,
it's kind of fun to see the math, but
then it's really interesting, I think to,
to, you know, truly gauge where,
where things might be going.
And, and this translates,
as you were saying,
just into the decrease in spending right.
How is real income trending over time?
Even personal savings we're up
to the low four percent this year
after reaching 3.3
percent low in December,
but still away from the historic
average of seven point 0.5
let alone of course,
the 30 percent savings rate during
covid times with stimulus money.
So those savings are
now diminished or gone.
Consumers have to now assess exactly
what their disposable income is and what
their savings are. And
you might ask yourself,
how can I now limit my
purchases to essential,
so even switch brands that are more
aligned with my cuts in spending based on
the reality that I have ahead.
And in the case of our customers,
for example, the lenders,
they're still facing these same
challenges since their customers are these
consumers. They might want
to grow with new customers,
they might want to better
manage their current customers,
and they're trying to mitigate
risk balancing growth objectives.
But all of these are the same
consumers with declining consumer
sentiment that are pushing back.
Yeah, great point. Maria.
I was even, you know,
I was even thinking about
an example, I, I ,
I was talking to a friend of mine
that has a, a business here locally.
It's a tile and flooring
business. And it was interesting,
we were kind of talking about
tariffs, and one of the things that,
that he had mentioned to me is that
they, they have a small location,
and they were really looking
to expand this year. They had,
they had put together a fund to,
to try and build a new location.
It was interesting that the,
the outlook now for his business is such
that he had to take all of that money
and, and apply it towards
inventory to try and, you know,
and try and beat the the tariffs so
that he can stay competitive. And,
you know, that's one of the
things, as I think about it,
obviously that's just one
example. It's not you know,
it's not happening across the board, but
when we think of the impact, you know,
for businesses, maybe they were thinking
one way at the start of the year,
and they really had to
shift their thought process.
And that's something that I
think is you know, is certainly,
we may not have anticipated that at
the first of the year that we would be
thinking of, you know, major business
shifts, but it is one that's happening.
Yeah.
I, I like that example you gave the,
the small business example that
you just gave there, Jesse, and,
and turning it again, back
to the, the consumer view,
not all that different.
You know, we know that the,
the impact's going to be felt
differently by by different populations.
And, and, and we've actually
seen some of that. And,
and this goes back to what I was
saying earlier in that, you know,
we could even,
as we're heading in times of uncertainty
and heading into more uncertainty,
we could still look at the data that
we do have to make some intelligent,
you know, sense out of what's going
on. And, and, and we've, we have,
I guess,
sorry to say some rich data on the impact
of inflation over the last few years.
We know that the, the KS
shaped economy is real. That,
that there have been people since
the pandemic that have been,
if not, you know, just,
you know, making due,
but even thriving in some cases, you
know, through all of these conditions.
And we know that there are a large
portion of the populations that are really
struggling with affordability
and other factors. And,
and that's gonna be exasperated, you
know, with this as, as tariffs do incur.
I'm not gonna go all Grinch that Dave
did and, and talk about, you know,
boys under the tree. But,
but that is the impact. You know,
family households are going to
feel this differently. Some are,
some are going to wave
it off as a nuisance.
Some are going to really struggle with
their, their basic household needs.
And, and we saw that with inflation,
we have the, the potential of seeing,
you know, this to some degree as
the result of, of sustained tariffs.
Yeah, it's a, I think a great point,
Tom. I mean, obviously if, if, you know,
if you follow economic data,
we got some of the spending spending
data today it, it's, you know,
consumers are already kind of indicating
that they're hoarding, you know,
getting, getting that you know, that
last purchase end. So yeah, it's,
it's interesting to see the you
know, sentiment play out. So I think,
you know,
that certainly great points related
to headwinds around you know,
around the tariffs. Let's kind of
brings me to my next my next thought,
which is leading indicators.
What leading indicators should we really
be watching for? I know economists,
you know, they look at and, and
even market watchers, you know,
they're looking at data, they're trying
to understand what that data tells them,
but but what indicators, if we
think of our customers you know,
should they be looking at to get a
better idea for whether or not you know,
the, the consumer is really
starting to act on the,
the sentiment that they're providing.
Dave, let's go ahead and start with you.
Yeah, thanks. And some of.
That thunder has been stolen already,
so and I'll try to be not
Grinch like for, for you, Tom.
So so there's really two
things. So the, you know,
the health of the US economy
relies on consumer spending.
So the spot potential
recessionary trends pay close,
close attention to consumer behavior.
Are people rushing to buy those big ticket
items like cars and appliances ahead
of tariff increases,
surprised they have been are they using
their tax refunds to pay down debt,
or will they still be spending freely
to facilitate those pull those big
purchases being pulled forward? Changes
in these spending patterns can signal a,
a shift in consumer
confidence. On the other side,
additionally, job numbers
are a crucial indicator.
Our recent C-N-B-C-C-E-O poll showed
a percentage of CEOs anticipating or
considering job reductions this year,
we need to monitor employment closely
as another potential sign of an economic
downturn.
Yeah. So, yeah, definitely.
I, I think very,
very insightful points, Dave, when we
think of the economy and, and you know,
jobs certainly we've seen
consistency in the unemployment rate.
But yeah, I, I think to to, you know,
to some of the conversations that
we've heard around, you know,
the employment rate, how, how
quickly it went up towards the,
the fourth quarter, and so yeah,
that great great insight there.
One other thing that I would add
to that you guys are providing
some,
some great indicators from sort
of that macroeconomic perspective.
And I'm gonna, I'm going to go
to my tried and true role and,
and turn it back to the consumer
again and, and say, one of the things,
especially for our clients to
be looking at at this point,
are those delinquency rates
as, as boring as those,
those are as traditional as those are,
those are going to be the first signs of,
of where we're starting to
see more consumer stress. And,
and, and that's particularly
relevant given not just tariffs and,
and the things that we've
been talking about here,
but everything that's going on, you
and, and we're even to the point of,
you know the resumption of student loan
delinquencies and the impacts of those.
So from a consumer standpoint,
from a lending standpoint,
it's always important to, to be
monitoring those risk levels and,
and any changes to what's happening
off of your portfolio. But, you know,
it's, it's goes without saying that's,
that it's particularly
important right now.
And, and I was going to add
in terms of indicators, Jesse,
that you were asking about,
we could also argue home equity has
reached 35 trillion on the other
hand. So this 80% increase
since the beginning of 2020 is
phenomenal. But at the same
time, we're hearing concerns,
not just relating to the
high borrowing costs,
but the increase in property
taxes and homeowners insurance,
and these individuals are
hesitating, what do I do next?
How do I meet these payment obligations?
We could also argue 60% over
60% of the US is a homeowner,
but most carry a mortgage.
So they're likely asking all of these
questions we have to keep in mind the
overall associated housing
costs besides, of course,
the consumer spending and the
necessities of households.
And then we have the renters,
they are part of the uneven
k shape economy that Tom was
discussing. And we are, they're
facing even more challenges right now.
Yeah. great, great comment. Maria,
I was even as I was thinking about
that, I was, I was thinking about and,
and I'll close this section out,
but I was thinking about the,
the idea of the wealth effect. So
we, we think of the wealth effect,
it's this notion that consumers react
when there's a stronger con, you know,
confidence level in their personal
wealth. They may spend more,
they may consume more when assets are
higher than than when they're not.
And like you said, Marie,
there's a lot of home equity,
there's a lot of investment
asset out there. And,
and so when we see things like
401k statements, and I would,
I would encourage everybody, maybe don't
open those right, right away. You know,
but certainly, you know,
when we, when we see those,
those those downtrends
and assets you know, it's,
it's a good indication I think of where
confidence level is and, and how to,
you know, how do consumers react to
seeing that comfort, that, that comfort,
that that wealth brought you
know, to have, have an impact.
And so you know, that that can also
kind of lead to stress levels that,
you know, that change you
know, consumption and,
and and economic behavior.
So, okay. That's great. So what I'll
do is you know, last five minutes,
I want to switch gears and really talk
about those best practices, though,
the things that we can we can impart
on our listeners really as they observe
what's happening in the economy,
things that they can do to
help mitigate the stress and,
and really kind of get over
the you know, over the, the,
the hump initially of
like looking at the data,
but then how do we react to that? So
Tom, let's start with you on that.
Sure. I'll, I'll, I'll kick that part off
and, and really what I'm gonna say is,
is gonna come across as a
bit self-serving, you know,
coming from, from Equifax,
but, but really the,
the way to reduce uncertainty
is with information and,
and applying that
information on a regular,
frequent basis is the best
way of not only being able to
understand the situation as it is,
but also to pivot as that situation
changes over time. And, and,
and we know that that's going to be
the case, whatever that uncertainty is,
we know that the uncertainty is
going to exist. And so work with the,
work with the information
at hand, you know,
stay fluid in terms of your,
your strategic development
and be able to adapt
and, and, and as we see that the,
the customers that are dealing with,
with additional stress
start showing signs of that you'll be
in a position to not only, you know,
protect yourself, protect your portfolio,
but also work with them to help them
through these particular times of,
of transitory, you know, struggling. Yeah.
Maria, how about you?
Yeah, I will go back to what
I said earlier in how to
find that balance between
mitigating risk and looking for those
growth opportunities in these uncertain
scenarios. As Tom was mentioning,
you will need to fine tune or even be
more intentional or targeted with new
customers and existing
customer management.
And it is going to be harder
now to identify these pockets,
even if limited. But if you
want to identify these segments,
you need more data and insight.
You need to be more orderly
in how you're using that data,
how you're leveraging the trends to
find those limited opportunities.
So that's what you want
to make sure you do.
Istan was saying as frequently as
possible, as fine tuned as possible,
given there might be fewer, but there's
still, there still are opportunities.
And of course, if you're
first during uncertain times,
you're ahead of the game once
things start picking up again.
Yeah. Thanks Maria and Tom, and I
guess I, the one thing I would add,
and that's based upon conversations that
I've had over the last several weeks
with both consumer and commercial
lenders is that a lot of them are taking
a wait and see approach in terms
of any kind of changes to be made.
And some of you said this in our,
in our market pulse survey over
the last couple of months as well.
Obviously business plans
were made coming out of Q4
and, and heading into 2025,
and things were a lot different
just a few months ago.
So a lot of companies are out there
saying it's a little too early to decide.
And that's really what I think
building on both what Tom and Maria have
said is that it's not time to panic.
If you've got sound business
practices, you're in good shape.
You've,
you've got formative
formalized lending as well as
account management policies
in place and strategies,
just make sure you're staying on top of
them with the right information and then
taking appropriate action
in a timely fashion,
and that'll help mitigate any kind of
uncertainty that you might experience.
Yeah, I, I wholeheartedly
agree, Dave. And, and,
and I'd like to play off of
what both Maria and Dave were,
were talking about there. Dave
mentioned having, you know,
the sound strategies that,
that that that lenders have put into place
at the end of 2024 to see how they're,
they're going to approach 2025 and how
a lot of them are in a wait and see,
you know,
mode to see what kind of events play
out and what the data does start
saying. And of course,
that's going to be a a,
an interesting thing to finish
to figure out as well is like,
how long do we stay in
that, wait wait and see,
because ultimately the move the
world is continuing to move forward.
So at some point we need to act,
but I'd like to to sort of emphasize
some of the point, you know,
one of the points that Maria was making,
that having the ability to be
flexible and not necessarily
sort of just work in a reactive
mode could very well work in your
favor. A lot of lenders potentially
could be clamping down. Yeah.
And we see that in times
of uncertainty. We see the,
the natural inclination
to sort of pull back.
And we also see that in those
periods there are frequently
opportunities for growth opportunities
to take advantage where others are
pulling back to go in and
fill the need that is exposed.
So this is what we're talking about
in terms of being able to not just
look at that data and,
and look at it frequently,
but also to be able to adapt and move
fluidly as a result of looking at that
data and, and not just mitigate risk,
but also to take advantage
of opportunities.
Yeah, and I think I'll, I'll close
this out really playing off on,
on almost everything that you guys said,
which is don't forget your experiences.
We've think, you know, we think about the,
the last five years or so in the economy
that we faced in the pandemic and
leading, you know, to after the
pandemic, we had higher inflation,
we had more stress, there
was inventory shocks.
Certainly the drivers may be
different now than, than than then.
But what I, what I think is, you know,
a good thing to remember
is that we have good data.
We can see what those behaviors were a
couple of years ago, and that data is,
you know, is the experience that we
have that we can play off of and,
and really look at what it told you.
So I'm sure all of our customers
did postmortems on what that,
what that data looked like,
doing analysis to see what the
reaction of consumers at that time was.
And so build that baseline
and really use that,
that information that you had and,
and think about how maybe we see
similarities to where we are now and
differences, and then react to
that data. I think that's you know,
that's kind of a culmination of,
of all of what we said
in terms of how to react.
So I think then what we'll do
is we'll call that a podcast.
I want to certainly thank my panel.
It was a, a great panel today.
A lot of information we covered.
What I would say is if you have any
questions or suggestions for future
podcasts,
you can reach us at risk
advisors@equifax.com and we
all look forward to hearing
from you and be well.