Episode 16 - Making It Your Own, Truth, Shifts, Authenitic Living

Show Notes

Welcome to your weekly dose of The Psychedelic Psychologist, this week we explore the importance of making your psychedelic experience "your own". Thomas discusses how he found psychedelic work, the lessons gained from healthy intention setting and integration after psychedelic experiences. We talk about the guideposts, and how to listen to ones body, mind and spirit after a journey. Thomas shares his thoughts on what he is learning by using psychedelics for his personal healing story. 

What is The Psychedelic Psychologist?

The Psychedelic Psychologist is a conversational-style podcast hosted by Dr. Ryan Westrum with clients and guests who use talk therapy to integrate Psychedelic experiences for healing and personal transformation. Tune in to hear people’s experiences, breakthroughs and stories of healing addiction, depression, and trauma through Psychedelics. Dr. Ryan Westrum gracefully and empathetically narrates real therapy sessions with people in their most vulnerable and transformational moments.

I invite you to take a moment,
closing your eyes, finding a center

within your breath, breathing
in beginning, middle, and end.

Breathing out.

Beginning, middle and end,

recognizing your calibration,

finding a centeredness, a gentleness,

breathing in and breathing out.

Allowing yourself to explore
and expand within the body

in a very symmetrical, balanced
way, allowing yourself to calibrate,

breathing in and breathing out.

As I count from five down to four,
checking in with the body from four down

to three, focusing on the emotional heart

from three down to two.

Simply evaluating without judgment

and from two down to one, opening
your eyes to see the room.

And most importantly, to see
yourself a little differently

than when you first came.

Hi, it's Ryan.

Welcome to your weekly dose of the
psychedelic psychologist, where I

invite my guests to share stories
about their psychedelic experiences.

We cover a variety of topics from
overcoming addiction and severe

depression to finding wholeness and
spiritual emergence today's podcast.

You're going to hear from
one of my guests, Thomas.

Who speaks eloquently and very
authentically about their exploration

with psychedelic medicines and what it
truly means to them on their healing path.

Thomas.

Welcome.

Thanks, Ryan.

How are you feeling coming in today?

I'm good.

I'm really excited to be here.

Yeah.

And when you say excited, is that
because we're talking all things

psychedelic integration or psychedelic,
is that, does that vibe with you?

I love talking about this stuff.

And I, I would love to ask, cuz we've
been working together for some time now.

What drew you to the medicines?

Usually there's an invitation.

That's a really good question.

, I don't know if I can like pinpoint
one specific thing, growing up, I was

always kind of into just, Just curious
about like different like the cult

stuff, the unknown, different, like,
I feel like when I found out about,

achieving like different mind spaces
that just naturally interested me.

And then in my like early twenties, just
listening to some podcasts and stuff and

learning more about them as medicines.

And instead of just kind of
hearing rumblings and rumors

from friends and peers and stuff,
really captured my interest.

And then probably four years ago, I
had my first experience with them.

, and it's just been kind of a,
my first experience or leading

up to my first experience is
probably more of like the pin.

Like change.

I can sense in my life from it.

Yeah.

And that pinpoint change.

I often use the term, the
toothpaste was squeezed out.

What was the pinpoint change for you?

What radically shifted?

I feel like I, before psychedelics, I was.

Searching for some type of
purpose, but just really lost.

And didn't really know
what I was looking for.

Trying to follow society and the
cultural norms and try to figure

out where I fit in within that.

And I think, psychedelics kind of opened
up my mind and soul to what I actually

want and what actually like mattered to
me and what mattered to like my core.

and I feel like through
that, I've been able to.

Find more purpose in myself and, in
life I feel like, yeah, opening up your

course, speak to me at this moment.

The emotion that you are speaking
out of very much like from my heart.

And recently within the last couple
weeks or so, is that accurate that

you had a pretty profound experience
that you and I have been integrating?

Yeah.

A few weeks.

is that heart space open
from that experience or a

carryover of the experience?

It's, I'm definitely more aware of it.

And it's, I think more open
right now because I'm still, kind

of living in that after glow.

And that after glow, how do you notice it?

What's the first thing as you wake up
in the morning or go to sleep at night

that says, oh, there's that heart?

There's that after glow.

It's almost this weird intuition where
it's just, you, are more keenly aware

of certain things, more aware of like,
, just how you're processing your emotions

or how you're processing your thoughts.

It almost feels like sometimes
you're processing things like.

They're happening real time in
life, but in your mind, they're

like happening in slow motion.

Whereas , when you're not in
that afterglow state, they kind

of just happen real time and you
can't really catch up with them.

Give me a example of this,
because I hear it in your voice.

There's such a clarity and openness.

How is it manifesting
in your everyday life?

I.

Even just with like simple things, at
work and stuff, if there's something

frustrating that happens or something
out of my control that happened on a

project or whatever , just not going to
that, like skipping to that, like end

result of being frustrated or angry or
upset, and just being able to kind of slow

down the processing of the emotions and.

Almost stop it before it
gets too far and redirect it.

Does that make sense?

Makes it kinda sense.

So it feels like, kind of like having
a conversation with yourself through

processing that like in the moment it's
all kind of happening very quickly, but

you're more aware of it happening and
have almost feels like you have a little

bit more control of redirecting it.

And are you capable then to acknowledge
yourself in that pace when it's going?

Is that what I'm hearing you say
as you're really acknowledging

yourself in all of your interactions?

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's definitely part of it, especially
when it comes to work where there's way

too many times where I just get caught
up and stuff that I, at the end of the

day, I just don't really care about.

And I . Just gets swept up in the
hustle and bustle of work life.

And, I just spent so much
energy, like stressing out and

being upset about this one.

I really don't care.

And I could have probably solved
the issue faster if I approached it

from a clear mind versus getting all
caught up and frustrated with it.

Anyway.

And today in the afterglow,
are you being gentle with that?

Are you finding yourself
in more of a flow.

Being true to yourself.

Yeah.

And it's funny, you ask it like for
this time, cuz I feel like I'm being

way kinder to myself, this time.

And even just since like having our
sessions before my last experience,

just having that awareness sometimes can
be really heavy and almost, if you're.

If you feel you're missing or like not
living it to its fullest, it can, you

can almost get that like guilt feeling.

and you can say more about that.

Yeah.

Say more about that, please.

I feel like, After my first few
experiences, I had that awareness and

kind of redirection in my life and how
I approach life and my almost just life

philosophy and wanting to lead more with
love and, just really like, kind of see

people for their soul and who they are.

And I feel like if I wasn't doing
that or slipped up and got angry

or was negative or something, I
would feel that like negativity.

And, I would be really hard on myself
about it and almost beat myself up

about it, which is the exact opposite
of what I was trying to accomplish.

Whereas this time around, I feel
more of a balance where it's like,

I'm noting it and observing it, aware
of it, but trying really hard, not

to make myself feel bad about it
and just figuring out what happened.

Where did I miss?

And what can I maybe do next time
to redirect it quicker or, you know,

find that stop gate to be more true
to myself and be more true to whatever

that energy is that I'm now aware of.

Well, in a way I'm hearing you recognizing
the humility in the work that it takes

this isn't a radical, like I am fixed.

I did it now.

I'm gonna walk like Ram dos and
everything's going to be peaceful.

And on the top of it, the ability
to loosen up around guilt and

shame of not being able to hold,
it sounds like a remarkable

expression of kindness to yourself.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It really is where it's.

It's kind of fun to look at it as a gift.

I've never thought about it
that way, where it's, you're

freeing yourself a little bit.

Well, it's the expectations we all have.

And especially in the year,
2022, everybody's diving into

these psychedelics thinking.

This is gonna be the thing that
changes me or, you know, provides

me this enlightenment or peace
of mind or eradicates depression.

Yeah.

That was a realization I had, I feel
like around this last session, I don't

know if that's from it or before it,
but I, I think it was through just kind

of planning my intentions for this last
experience where I think before I had

this almost subconscious intention.

Fix me like this session, like this
experience is gonna fix me and it's going

to change my life and tomorrow's gonna be
like a brand new experience was gonna fix

me and to just be like a brand new south.

And recently I've figured out that it's
like, that's just really showing you.

How you can maybe start living
like that way or start improving

things or fixing things.

It's more of a roadmap or like almost just
like a peak into like your desires and

your, your intentions for the future.,
and then you have to figure out before

and after each session, like what we're
doing here, how to integrate it, how

to actually like live it and improve.

And when you say live it and approve it,
I get excited because it follows up by

saying, intuitively how do you ask for it,
the desires, the way you wanna show up.

And I'm curious, how are
you asking for that now?

How are you accepting yourself and
presenting yourself to the world?

I, I feel like I strive to be.

Authentic.

And I wanna like surround myself with
authentic people and just authentic

things., so I really just, I, I feel
like sense and that's kind of what

I was referring to as that pinpoint
initially of like doing oh cool.

Psychedelics is like, I've really allowed,
they've allowed me to become myself where

I think before the experiences and before
meeting my partner, I was maybe like, 60

to 70% myself meeting my partner allowed
me to get like 80, 90% of myself there.

And then I feel like psychedelics really
have allowed me to get, you know, 95,

a hundred percent of myself there.

And that's always a constant work in
process and stuff, but now more than

ever actually feel like I know who I am.

, just I'm really confident in
like, like what I am at my core.

So like showing up to me
is more just trying to be.

That authentic self and like treat people
with kindness and love and try to treat

them the way that I want to be treated.

And I miss a lot, but I feel like, that's
how, I guess to answer the question.

That's how I would like try to
present myself is just being there

for people, trying to be more like
present and be more intentional.

I love it.

What are you chewing on right now?

What's still percolating.

What's still.

Under rocks you're looking at from
the session or integrating, we've

been talking about this a lot and it
came up in my, last session, just, the

balancing act of mind, body, and soul,
and incorporating the body in that.

And I think my.

Early psychedelic experiences were very
much focused on the mind and soul so much.

So where I was thinking about it
today, kind of just thinking about

like what conversation we might have.

And I almost not almost, I did think
of it, whereas like my body was

almost in the way of the experience
where I was so focused on having

that mind and soul experience.

If I had any type of nausea or even
just had to like get up and go to the

bathroom to, just like mid session
or whatever, just normal thing to do.

It's just like, oh, there's just
getting in the way of the experience.

And I just, for a couple years,
actually, I just forgot about my body.

And realistically, I don't think I'd
ever really been listening to my body.

I've always, always just kind
of telling it what to do or had

expectations of how it should
perform or what it should be doing.

And when.

I feel through our conversations
and through some of the, experiences

I had in my last session, I'm
so much more aware of my body.

So like that awareness that we talked
about earlier was so mental and so soul

based now it's transitioned into kind
of the trilogy of mind, body, and soul.

And I'm very focused on the body right
now where I just feel very tapped into it.

And I just, am trying to figure out
ways to continue to integrate that.

What are ways you're doing?

What are ways that you're allowing your
body to wake up and to reconnect with it?

Just trying to like move more in
general, like working from home, the

last few years, like I just sit in
this chair way too much every day.

, But because of like working from home
and just having more time, I've like also

picked up skateboarding, which has all,
been just a really fun way to be active.

And in the last few weeks, since my
last experience, just being really.

In touch with the different
movements that you need to do to

do certain things on a skateboard.

And it's, I can just tell a
difference of like how aware I,

I am of like my feet moving and
knowing like, where they need to be.

And just being aware of like,
when I miss a movement, like, oh

yeah, I didn't move my hips here.

My shoulders felt off.,
And same thing with golf.

I've been golfing a lot
lately and I usually golf

like three, four times a year.

Horrible slice get just good enough
to maybe put around together by my

fourth time out this, of the year.

And then I go, go into winter
and don't play for a while.,

And, but just same thing.

Like just being more aware of
my body and where it's at in a

golf swing and, same thing, like
knowing where, oh, that felt weird.

What felt weird about it?

Knowing that it was like my foot
felt off or my shoulder felt off

and I've never had that before.

Yeah.

Hearing you say that the micro kind of
alignments are coming in and tell me.

They're sharing with you, something
they're sharing with you, this idea

that you are connecting on a much
more smaller microscopic level.

No.

Yeah, yeah.

Do you think there's, do you think
there's a cause of respecting

the medicine because of that?

I mean, it's obviously the
medicines are teaching us something.

What, what downloaded on you
to go, oh, Hey, here's my body.

I think it was our conversation around,
just kind of prepping for the experience.

I, I talked through, how I, I
think I'd done it like four or

five times before this past time.

And almost every time I'd maybe not
throw up, but at least get really

nauseous to the point of throwing up
and a couple times, like really bad

purging and good purging at the end of
the day, but bad, just hard purging.

Yeah.

And, This time around, I approached it of
just trying to really settle into my body.

I feel like the past experiences I even
was just sitting in positions that weren't

comfortable for me, but I thought it
was the position I should be sitting in.

And whereas this last time
I just laid on my left side.

Like I know I like to where I
always end up eventually and, just

really kind of take the medicine.

Take over me and I, I really, felt
it work through my entire body kind

of almost from like my toes up,
and was just really aware of it.

And I, It was the first time
that I really felt like I was

able to work with the medicine.

Whereas every time before then it was,
and granted, I, I haven't done it a ton.

I'm still very novice in all of
this, but it very much felt like the

medicine was just happening to me.

Whereas this time it felt like,
it was much more, I partnership.

That's remarkable.

What I hear Thomas, is this idea
that you were making it your own.

You were giving yourself the privilege
to co-create with it, as you said.

Yeah.

In concert.

Yeah, absolutely.

You weren't, you weren't forced to sit
and load this position with your eyes

closed or have a certain playlist done.

And often that, that does become
almost intrinsically challenging,

which leads us to shame.

Like we didn't do it good enough.

Or we're not, we're not carrying
the lineage appropriately

because we didn't follow the, the
metaphorical or mythical protocol.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then you can get in your head
around, like, if you don't follow that

protocol, how is the experience gonna go?

I don't, it was, it was
really what was it to release?

What was it like to
release that expectation?

It was really freeing., I mean,
especially in those experiences,

I always feel like so much myself.

So it just like elevated that even more.

Awesome.

Tell me about what it's like to
make it your own, not just in the

psychedelic session, but as you're
walking in the world today, you talk

so beautifully about authenticity,
skateboarding, golfing, doing your thing.

What are you doing to make it your
own and know that you don't have to

necessarily follow protocol?, for me,
I feel like I journal a little bit.

I'm trying to get more into that.,
that definitely helps, especially.

As I have, like if I'm waking
up in the morning and taking a

shower and have a thought, like
just trying to capture it down.

, cause I just forget
thoughts a lot of the time.

So just trying to like keep those
kind of realizations, , documented

somewhere more consistently.

But I think a lot of the integration
work that I have, , is through just

conversations with my friends, with my
wife, just like my, my close friends

where I just kind of maybe share.

Some of the actual experience,
but a, a lot of times just kind of

share like what I'm working on or
thinking through in, in my life.

And I have a really cool tight knit friend
group, where we're able to kind of be

vulnerable and share a lot of that stuff.

And I feel like just working
through that with people, even,

it's almost a sense, a little bit
of a sense of like accountability.

Like I'm almost putting myself out there
and putting my intentions out there.

And they don't hold me accountable
or tell me when I'm missing.

But like, for me, it's a sense of
accountability where if it's, if I

put it out there, I, I am more likely
to kind of follow through with it.

I can respect that.

Speak to me a little bit about this
idea of vulnerability in community.

Cuz I do believe, especially this subject
matter promotes, being conscious of

who you share the subject matter with
being conscious with what you share the

subject matter and, how are you discerning
what to share about your stories and.

Yeah, it's all.

,I feel vulnerability comes down
to just trust and just being able

to trust that they're not gonna
judge you for it or take it.

And what you share with them and talk bad
about you or use it against you or use it

behind your back or whatever it may be.

So just finding people that
you can trust and have those

like open conversations with.

I feel like for me, it's kind
of a lot of just like seedlings,

like plant, almost planting seeds.

And then eventually, like you're
sitting around a bonfire and you've

planned a few seeds and you can have
this very open, real conversation.

I love that metaphor.

What's on the horizon.

When do you know that
psychedelics is calling again?

How, how much integration?

What, what starts percolating in the body?

The mind what's the internal
conversation you have with yourself?

It's, it's a weird calling to me.

It's, I, I like can't really
even put a finger on it.

It's like they just kind of start popping.

In my life more, I start like hearing
stories more about it or gravitating

towards podcasts or shows that are
talking about it or documentaries.

, even just like, it's, it's weird how, like
the universe has just like put them in

my life at certain times where it's like,
I've never really had like full access to

them and it's just like, they kind of like
pop up where it's, it's like a gift from

the universe or a friend or something.

, I love it.

And I think too, just when you, like,
we've talked about guideposts and that's

think that's kinda what we were talking
about through, in our last conversation

around understanding, like when you
are carrying something next, extra, or

missing something, and I'm just trying
to figure out like what those are for me.

And I think I've started to figure
out a couple of 'em, but really

trying to figure out like, when,
when is that time to go in next?

I don't know if I know that
right now, it's kind of just

more of like a gut feeling.

I like that gut feeling.

And to go back to the guideposts that
we talk often about are signs, right.

Almost in the hiking metaphor
of the Kerins, right.

Those large rock formations
on the distance horizon.

And you can maybe meander a little to
the left of it, meander a little bit to

the right of it, but it's giving you a
beacon or a direction towards, and yeah.

Asking you, what is spiritually shifting?

What is emotionally shifting?

What is physically shifting in your body?

Whether the thoughts shifting, I believe
those are wonderful guideposts or tells.

I call it the four shifts, spiritual,
emotional, physical, and thought shifts.

Yeah.

Do you hit any of those right now that
you're like, oh, this shifted over the

course of the last three weeks, two weeks?

I think so.

I don't know how to say, say this
as, , in like a clean, concise way,

but I feel like one of the guideposts
that I've been thinking about is

maybe this isn't like the actual
guidepost, but a red flag that I'm like.

Too, like striving far off the trail.

Whereas like, if I get mad at just like
technology or inanimate objects where

it's like the stuff that like used to
roll off my shoulders and I could just

be free and breezy and just move on with
my day, just like, almost like knocks

me back and takes me out a little bit.

That's great observation.

I can totally resonate with that when
the zoom machine and as we both S it

to sit in our chairs and, you know,
start becoming extensions of the

computers, we start yelling at them.

That's a wonderful towel of,
Hey, maybe we need to dive again.

yeah, that means we're doing it every day.

No, just kidding.

wonderful.

What's the homage you
pay the psychedelics.

What?

Do you Revere in this work?

What is the most important things that
you just completely see as sacred?

, I really think it's, it's a
very unique medium to like,

have your personal journey.

, I can't imagine like my
journey without them.

I feel like it just has like leveled up
my sense of self and like my purpose and.

, just kind of like my overall, like
excitement for life in the world.

, I, yeah, I think it's just, , it's
a really cool tool to have, like

in this life to try to understand
yourself a little bit more.

I think that's the thing I love most
about is just like exploring myself.

Yeah.

And trusting yourself and being okay with
the broad spectrum of what comes up and

what starts to percolate in your body.

What starts to all of a sudden
go, oh, maybe I'll check that out.

Like you said about skateboarding or
they become ample opportunities for

hobbies and joy and interactions with
people stimulating conversations.

Yeah.

It's great.

How do you, and you know, me and everybody
knows me and I, the gentleness comes

into concert and I always love to hear
what is the newest way you're becoming

more and more gentle with yourself.

How are you showing compassionate
gentleness to yourself?

, kind of goes back to just,
being aware of like the body

and listening to my body more.

If I'm tired during the day, I try
to take a nap, even if it's just like

for 15 minutes, even before this, I
took a quick 15 minute nap, like an

hour ago, just, I was feeling just
a little like tired and lethargic

and not like in the right energy.

Space to like, have this
type of conversation.

And I was like, I'm just gonna lay
down for a little bit, close my eyes.

And I felt like really well, rested,
showered, and was I'm ready to

go for the rest of the day now.

So just trying to listen to my body
and give myself rest when I need rest.

It's an incremental process.

Isn't it?

Slowing down and growing slow
and acknowledging it's now a

rat race to the finish line.

There's no, there's gross.

Slow concepts.

Is always beneficial with psychedelic
work and integration, knowing that

the waves just keep coming and hitting
you gently if you listen to them.

Yeah.

It's great to have you today.

It's nice to talk.

This was awesome.