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Every Friday, join us as we dive into the latest in real estate multifamily with David Moghavem, Head of East Coast Acquisitions at Trion Properties. David invites top experts who know the ins, outs, and trends shaping the real estate multifamily market across the nation!
Whether you’re a seasoned investor or just curious about where the next big opportunity might be, Deal Flow Friday brings you the weekly inside scoop on what’s hot, what’s not, and what to watch for in today’s ever-evolving real estate scene.
David Moghavem (01:38)
All right, welcome to another episode of Deal Flow Friday. I'm your host, David Mogavam, and today we got Enrique Huerta, the new VP of Acquisitions at Crystal View Capital, a equity estate firm focused on manufactured housing communities, self-storage, industrial outdoor storage, and selective multi-family plays across the US. Enrique, it's really good to have you, and you know.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (01:43)
Yeah.
David Moghavem (02:06)
The multifamily community misses you already. ⁓ If you don't know
Enrique, yes. If you don't know Enrique, Enrique's had over a decade of experience in multifamily. I'm sure he still dabbles a little with Crystal View, but looks like Enrique made the recent pivot ⁓ out of multifamily or at least focused away into alternative assets. And so it's gonna be fun to get Enrique's perspective on...
Enrique Huerta Airpods (02:11)
Pleasure to be here, David. Thank you.
David Moghavem (02:33)
what he's chasing and also about traditional multifamily and what he's seeing out there. So Enrique, again, amazing having you on. I wish we were on a golf course, by the way. It's way more fun when we're on the links together, you know. ⁓
Enrique Huerta Airpods (02:41)
Thank you. I do too.
You know if you haven't
done an episode on the golf course ⁓ I can be the guinea pig. Let's do it
David Moghavem (02:53)
That's a genius idea. I've
actually been thinking about maybe doing like a golf pod. You know how all the influencers, do one of these golf influencer pods? I actually was behind one of those when I was golfing and it infuriated me, but at the same time, it gave me a little inspo. Yeah, yeah, I'm like, dude, just let me hit, come on.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (03:06)
are you? Yeah, I bet they take forever. You know, it
wouldn't be a bad thing as you know, we played golf together and a lot of people in our industry like to play golf. So it's a thing for sure.
David Moghavem (03:20)
Exactly,
exactly. And maybe we do a pod. We get the bruise out. We do a little ⁓ little beer games with the golf like we did together a couple of years ago. So.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (03:29)
Yeah, good
old, I know who you're talking about, Pat and Jeff. I love it. Yeah, shout out to our Colorado Springs boys. Love you guys.
David Moghavem (03:33)
Yes, shout out to Pat and Jeff. They're always a great time on the course. Yes,
exactly, exactly. I want to talk to you a little bit actually about your recent LinkedIn post. So you came out the gates. You were saying how your firm, Crystal View Capital, you're looking to acquire assets before year end. Manufactured housing communities, mobile home parks.
industrial outdoor storage, self storage, some multifamily, you're looking nationally and you're buying all cash. So talk to me a little bit about your overall strategy, Crystal View Capital strategy, would love to hear kind of the high level on what you're chasing.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (04:05)
.
Yeah, absolutely. So I was very, as I was looking for new opportunities for my career, I came across this firm called Christian View Capital, extremely impressed with their ⁓ team that they've built, with their current portfolio across the country. And really the entire organization ⁓ has been quietly building, I would say, a great ⁓ business and platform.
And just to go into the details, the company is vertically integrated. ⁓ They are a fund manager. So we're on fund four, which is a $200 million fund. And historically, the focus has been on self-storage and manufactured housing communities. I will say that is still the top of our investment priority list as the fund mandate is focused on those two asset classes. However, the firm is opportunistic. We have started to look in some industrial outdoor storage facilities.
Obviously my decade of experience in multifamily, the company would like to buy some multifamily as well, because at the end of the day, right, we are yield driven investors. ⁓ I think that one of the main reasons we like to manufacture in Halloween space so much is the current yield, the yield that can be generated, as well as the growing institutional investor interest in the asset class. As you know, David, over the last decade plus institutional investor interest has grown significantly in real estate.
and particularly in multifamily. So I'm not saying it's saturated. I'm not saying it's gone forever. But certainly, as you know, there's a lot of the dislocation in the multifamily sector. And I just think more and more investors are going to look to allocate capital into maybe some alternative strategies. And for me, it felt like manufactured housing. It's housing at the end of the day. So it's a great, you know, proximal asset class to focus on. And, you know, as I mentioned, fund for $200 million. We have some dry powder to deploy.
David Moghavem (05:51)
Right?
Enrique Huerta Airpods (06:01)
And because we do buy all cash out of that entity vehicle, ⁓ we're looking to close a couple of deals before the end of the year. And that post was helpful. I received about eight to 10 phone calls. And even today, I've been receiving a couple more calls, just kind of sourcing opportunities. And we can talk a little bit more about how we source investments for the fund. But I personally, and I know you are too, I'm a big believer in online and digital marketing for that as well.
David Moghavem (06:27)
Totally. mean, the power of LinkedIn is just incredible. yeah, exactly. Exactly. And the reach you get and the way you can just connect and network, it's almost more powerful than like an NMHC. It's like NMHC on steroids all the time, right? So.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (06:31)
It's mind blowing. I never thought we'd be here.
I
was gonna say that it's like an ongoing NMHC it just you know ongoing and when you have a nice you know thought or opportunity you can share it and the people that are aligned with that mindset always like to reach out and and you know build that relationship to your point.
David Moghavem (06:46)
Yeah.
Yeah. So going back to manufactured housing, I know we're talking a little bit broad brush here, but what type of yields are you seeing in manufactured housing space compared to maybe like what you would see traditionally multifamily? Like what's that spread that you're getting for dabbling into manufactured housing?
Enrique Huerta Airpods (07:16)
Yeah, it's a great question. I would say the going in yields may not be too dissimilar and really it's a function of right, just investor yield appetite. However, the difference is in the whole stabilization yield, right? I mean, if you're a value add multifamily investor, buy an asset, reposition it, raise the rents, and then you look to stabilize anywhere from I would say six to 8 % right yield on costs depending on location, risk, etc. I would say in the manufactured housing realm, more often than not,
you can hit that range or exceed it much more frequently, I would say, than buying a multifamily apartment building. And part of that really stands from the ownership profile, right? If you're pursuing multifamily assets across the country, you're going to be talking to groups like Triumph Properties, who are sophisticated investors or REITs or developers, people that have been doing this for a very long time. So from that perspective, deals are more often not priced to perfection, I like to say. And there's really
David Moghavem (08:14)
Sufficient.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (08:16)
Correct, and there's really no margin for error. On the manufactured housing side, however, the ownership profile is much more mom and pop. A lot of private individuals, a lot of trusts, a lot of long-term owners, and a lot of long-term developers who actually built these parks when they were allowed to build them. And from that perspective, right, they're not always ⁓ profit motivated. There's other reasons that they're looking to effectuate a sale. And from that perspective, we find we can just generate more alpha. Crystalview Capital specifically,
is vertically integrated and has a full management team, asset management team, operations team in-house. And we have very hands-on approach to asset management. So any kind of tips and tricks of the trade, the company has honed in on becoming experts in that over the past two decades. And we're able to basically bring those value-add plans to fruition pretty quickly. And the proof is in the pudding, right, given the company's track record.
David Moghavem (09:13)
from a risk adjusted basis, I'd like to hear kind of like, what are the major hurdles or risks that you're facing in manufactured housing that you might not get in multi? would say maybe one that comes to mind is some of the institutionalized financing options and liquid options that you have in multi, you might not have in manufactured housing. And, but at the same time for what you don't get from that.
liquidity side you get with maybe cash flow, right? You get a little bit higher yield. So talk to me a little bit about some of the hurdles and risks that maybe are associated with manufactured housing that you may not see in multi and how you guys kind of navigate or get comfortable with some of that.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (09:52)
Yeah, that's a great question, David. So one of the first things and you hit the nail on the head is really the financing and the liquidity is not always there in the way you could expect to be there from a multifamily perspective.
I would say for the most part, ⁓ any stabilized apartment complex, you can get an agency loan. That's not always the case with manufactured housing. In the past, there have been a handful of capital sources. Because of the affordability needs of our country, more and more of the agencies are putting manufactured housing into their mandate. But the quality and the locations of these parks differs significantly. do they finance manufactured housing? They do.
David Moghavem (10:23)
Right.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (10:33)
but it's a pretty small sliver of the market. And I would share that the majority of that financing probably goes to the bigger players in the space, right? Any type of REIT or institutional investor that has higher kind of core or core plus type assets will ⁓ draw from that capital source. know, Chris DeVue's targets are typically value add or opportunistic plays. So that's one of the main reasons we go in all cash, but even post stabilization, right? We do have the options of financing with banks.
CNBS lenders are big in that space. And as I mentioned, more and more, if it's in the right location, an agency will get there. But I would say it's about timing and capital. So being all cash is critical. A couple of the other changes or things to be aware of when investing in manufactured housing versus conventional multifamily is really just the ⁓ jurisdiction that you're dealing with, right? In multifamily, we obviously have...
know, rent control is a big issue across the country. It's already in certain markets and it seems to be growing nationally, at least the threat of it is. ⁓ But for the most part, you can build apartments. And so it's a double edged sword. Jurisdictions don't really want more manufactured housing, which at the end of the day is a benefit because the supply stays low. There's a lot more demand. However, when you're trying to expand your park or just improve it.
David Moghavem (11:46)
Right.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (11:51)
they might not let you do that. And so if you're depending upon some sort of expansion or development potential on an acquisition, ⁓ you're running the risk of that not being permitted. So that's a factor to keep in mind. ⁓
David Moghavem (12:02)
Why is that by
the way? Like why wouldn't they want more dollars put into improving the site?
Enrique Huerta Airpods (12:09)
A lot of it just comes from stigma, right? Like at the end of the day, when people hear, you we call it manufactured housing communities or mobile home parks. In a lot of people's minds, they still think of it as they call it, you know, trailer park. And so from that perspective, what we've seen a lot of jurisdictions do is as they grow out into these boundaries where these parks are located, rather than say, hey, we'd like to improve the park and make it better.
David Moghavem (12:12)
Mm-hmm.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (12:34)
they actually like to shut them down, take over the land and then build something new, whether it be housing, that single family housing or apartments or some type of mixed use development. So a lot of these jurisdictions would rather just scrap it all together and start fresh with something that's part of their current development plan versus the plan they had in mind, you know, when they first had approved the zoning and the development of that park.
So it's just an interesting ⁓ thing to be aware of, right? A lot of jurisdictions are hostile to manufactured housing. And then the other thing is we also are contending with rent control in the space. So it's very interesting, right? In apartments, there's rent control at the unit level. Well, in our sector, we're technically leasing the land to people, but they are looking to cap that as well. And I have seen that dislocate some markets and change the sales velocity and the valuations, of course, in those markets.
David Moghavem (13:19)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, it's interesting. You were saying how one of the obstacles is how municipalities, they don't want to build or improve more of it, but you're also seeing as opportunity, especially what you saw in the multi-space in the Southeast and the Sunbelt market. You saw so much supply that as a value add operator, it just made it tougher to operate. And you're saying how now you're kind of in this new space in manufactured housing where you're seeing those barriers to entry be a positive.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (13:49)
Correct.
would say so. mean, there are, you know, ⁓ in Phoenix alone, which is the market that I've been very active in, in my multifamily career historically, there's about still call it 26,000 apartment and BTR units being developed, right? And that's just in the next 12 months, as we stabilize into what they're calling the supply cliff era, there's still anywhere from eight to 10,000 units coming online, hardly a cliff, if you ask me. So from that perspective, and this is just a anecdotal
David Moghavem (14:18)
Mm-hmm.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (14:25)
conversations I've had with owners and developers in the manufactured housing space. If you're lucky, they will approve, call it 10 to 20 projects a year across the entire country. And in this country, there's approximately 44,000 mobile home parks, and there's more being torn down and redeveloped into other uses than there are new ones being built. And kind of like multifamily, the new ones being built.
are often are more often than not a kind of class a offering in the manufactured housing sector. They'll have nice amenities. The homes will be larger and they'll be newer. And so from that perspective, even if they're building them, they're still not, you know, solving the affordability problem in our country that they're intended to solve. So from that perspective, right, they're actually removing supply from the marketplace and demand keeps going up because average rents in the lot space.
David Moghavem (15:13)
Right?
Enrique Huerta Airpods (15:17)
are significantly under a thousand a month. Many times we see projects where the rents are three or $400 a month. Compare that with your typical apartment today. I mean, it's a huge, huge cost savings for sure.
David Moghavem (15:28)
Sure. So, I mean, obviously you're dealing with lower demos for the most part. Does that play a role in type of delinquency and ⁓ collection issues that you're facing and how do you guys combat that?
Enrique Huerta Airpods (15:44)
Yeah, it's a great question. would say, you know, that is a common, you know, part of the stigma is people think, hey, the demographics may be more challenging in that asset class. However, we have found that often more often than not, they're just hardworking families, you know, consider a, you know, blue collar workforce, housing, apartment projects. I would say the demographics are very similar. And this is a more recent phenomenon. You'll start to see it over time. We're actually starting to see younger millennials move into some of the nicer manufactured housing communities.
David Moghavem (15:58)
Mm-hmm.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (16:13)
because they're tired of getting their rents raised every year, year over year in the Class A apartments, and they want a little more space. Everyone in the multifamily sector is talking about BTR. BTR is great, but we are seeing some of those younger folks move into these manufacturers housing communities as well. So it's just an interesting dynamic. ⁓ And let's say we do have something that's a little more classy in nature. Because we're vertically integrated, we kind of have our...
operating procedures intact like anything else you do your asset management in a hands-on manner don't let too much time go by and you can kind of handle any type of issues in that regard and I would say because the rents are much lower the delinquency tends to be lower as well because people will pay that rent right
David Moghavem (17:00)
Right. So even though you're kind of working in a blue collar space, which by the way, there's many multifamily communities that are in the same space and compete with that type of product, you're seeing that it's a little bit more resilient potentially in these types of times where it's just a lower price per pound or rent per month and is more affordable by nature in comparison to incomes.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (17:07)
Mm-hmm.
Agreed.
100%. And I think people have really out of necessity, consider that now as a housing option, because rents have gone so high, you know, because home prices are so high. I was just having this conversation earlier today with a potential investor in the fund. He was saying, well, you know, just to buy a house today, the conversation starts at $3,000 a month, right? That already assumes good credit. That already assumes you have 20 or 30,000 plus dollars to invest as a down payment.
David Moghavem (17:48)
Yeah.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (17:55)
and then compare that to what I'm sharing with you, a lot rent being $500 a month, significantly more affordable. And know, those families know like, hey, if I don't pay this, where am going to go? So they will do what they have to do to pay that rent. And that's, know, it's been kind of a quiet institutional investment for a long time, but we are seeing that investor interest tick up across the board.
David Moghavem (18:17)
Yeah, makes sense. mean, it makes sense from a lending perspective how they're, know, Fannie and Freddie, they're starting to mandate this affordable. have in multifamily, they have mission driven financing. And I feel like this kind of plays into that as well. And then from an equity perspective, capital is looking for yield. They're looking for some type and you're seeing that in multi. It's super tight, super tight. ⁓ Yeah, 90s and newer.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (18:24)
Mm-hmm.
That's right.
Night is a newer, right? Everyone wants tonight is a newer with
yeah, with high returns. Yeah.
David Moghavem (18:46)
Yeah, and everyone's chasing that. And
I think personally in the multi-space in order to get some type of return that makes sense, you got to be somewhat contrarian and take a bet on something that maybe most people wouldn't agree on, whether it's a market that's going through a funk or it's a vintage that not everyone's super on board on because that 90s and newer quote that everyone's telling you every all the capital saying
they're not paid to take that type of additional risk of maybe buying something that's older or taking on a market that's blacklisted because of some of the operational funks. So the only way to really get to like quote unquote mid-teens return or high-teens return is by taking a bet that's not conventional.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (19:18)
Fair.
Great. And I would say I agree 100%. One of the challenges in multifamily over the last few years has just been that Austin cited quote of 90 the newer. And are they out there? Absolutely, right. But in terms of the actual volume of opportunities, it's very, very low. So you did not say this, but I like to think that the current market, you see two real opportunities. On the one hand, you see these Class A new construction lease of deals that
David Moghavem (19:47)
Mm-hmm.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (20:04)
Potentially are distressed. However, we haven't seen many of them actually go to the market and be sold right and on the other hand Which I think is where you're headed at least this is what I think on the 60s and 70s vintage acquisitions You know, you're gonna see and we've already seen it like you're gonna start to see seven percent seven and a half percent plus cap rates and if you can find those in a market where the fundamentals are strong and I was just talking with a lender the other day
with a buy down, can get your agency financing down to the low fives, sometimes even sub five exactly. And so when you marry that sub five rate with a seven and a half cap rate day one, you're gonna hit that high single digit cash on cash return that a lot of investors say they want until they go to the property and say, hey, I don't really wanna invest in this thing. Which reminds me, one of my good mentors, he always said one of his best deals was a deal that he found
David Moghavem (20:36)
Sub five. Yeah.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (21:01)
and he called his investors and he said, hey, I found the deal of the century, but make me one promise. And they said, well, what is that? He said, you will not go to the property until we finish our business plan. And he said that all the investors that trusted him are thrilled, right? They killed it, they crushed it, and he still owns the asset. And it was one of these older vintage assets in an emerging market that like, if it were to come available today, everyone would kind of overlook it.
But for the people that I think have seen cycles before, which you and I are younger in the real estate industry, but I know we surround ourselves with very experienced mentors, like all the people have seen multiple cycles, they're all saying, hey, absolutely, that's the place to go. ⁓ But it's real work, right? And I think that's the challenge. In the last five years, multifamily was ⁓ a lot easier, I guess, to work in the space. And now you have, because you had so many Telwens, not all those Telwens have been flipped upside down, and they're all headwinds.
David Moghavem (21:58)
Yeah.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (21:58)
doesn't
mean you can't do it, it just requires a lot more discipline for sure.
David Moghavem (22:02)
Yep, I would say two things. One is on the older vintage type of assets right now. You are starting to potentially see the 7Cat+. I personally haven't seen it just yet because the way we're looking at it is true delinquency, true vacancy. Exactly. And so maybe you're hearing them get quoted, that's for sure. But then when you put pen to paper, you see
Enrique Huerta Airpods (22:22)
Yeah, so it's a real cap rate, right?
Yep.
David Moghavem (22:32)
All right, maybe collections aren't as strong as they are. And I think that's just the, you know, the market's not operationally performing like terribly, but it's just a little bit. You're seeing the cracks on the operation side. And so you factor that in with also the cap X that you need to now put into some of these older vintage properties, like the plumbing, you know, these are 50 year plumbing, ⁓ buildings that, that probably are out of their useful life. They may need to get replumbed.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (22:40)
Mm-hmm.
Great.
Yeah.
David Moghavem (23:01)
or at least close to it, you need to start budgeting for that. ⁓ Or maybe some of the other CapEx issues that might come about. So what I'm seeing is the yield kind of gets to maybe a six or sub six on some of these. And I just don't think that's where it needs to be just yet. It's not bad, but it's maybe not where it needs to be just yet. But I do agree if you can get a seven yield day one, a real seven.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (23:04)
That's right.
I agree.
A real 7.
David Moghavem (23:29)
a real seven, not a broker seven, a real seven. I think
Enrique Huerta Airpods (23:30)
Yup. Exactly.
David Moghavem (23:33)
that's an awesome place to play in. And you know, when I first entered the industry 10 years ago, I was looking at comps, sale comps from like, you three years before I was entering the industry. I'm like, man, these guys bought a six cap for this, like, and now it's trading. I'm like, man, can we get back there? We're here, we're here right now. We're here. And so.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (23:44)
Sure.
That's right. That's right. We're here. We are here. And
I've shared that with a lot of people that kind of asked me like, hey, what do think about the market? I said, I'm seeing cap rates back to when I first started. Right. Like you're starting to see, at least to your point, they're quoted six caps in like Phoenix, right. As an example, which Phoenix hasn't seen six caps, I would say in almost 10 years. And people are like, well, the basis is still inflated. I said, well,
David Moghavem (24:15)
Right?
Enrique Huerta Airpods (24:18)
Yes and no, the basis may be a little higher than people are comfortable with, but it's a function of the rents have grown, right? When I first started looking at deals in Arizona and the prices were 100 a door, the rents were $700, right? Those same deals today, you know, the price per unit is maybe 150 to 180, and the rents are now $1,600, right? So like those rents have jumped significantly, but the yields are back to where they were.
David Moghavem (24:38)
Mm-hmm.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (24:44)
I like seeing that because that just creates an opportunity and everyone says real estate is cyclical, but we're actually living through it right now as you and I are speaking.
David Moghavem (24:54)
Yep. So the second part of what you're talking about with Multi, ⁓ about how newer construction and how it might be distressed. think what I'm seeing there, which you kind of alluded to is you don't see the distress on that Class A stuff yet, because I think there's just so much liquidity chasing it, whether before it gets to a sale, whether it's some type of pref equity to save the developer from taking out of their construction loan and going.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (25:10)
Mm-hmm. That's right.
David Moghavem (25:23)
Permanent Pref to kind of go cash neutral and keep riding it out. You're seeing a lot of that. You're seeing a lot of platform investments or recaps that are kind of coming in with pools of equity rather than having to buy it from a JV. And so I just don't, and then the institutions, they're all kind of choosing to invest in that type of product because it's below replacement costs and they're paid to take that risk.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (25:39)
Good point.
Sure.
David Moghavem (25:52)
They're okay to take something that if you're buying something well below the replacement cost, you won't get fired for buying something below replacement cost. You know what I mean? So I think that space is just so competitive. And then there's a clear pricing dislocation and capital dislocation once you go 90s and older, or early 90s and older. So that's why you hear the 90s and newer in a nutshell.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (25:53)
That's right.
Fair. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
That's right. That's right.
100%. And I have friends who are buying older product and it's real. Like people are struggling to sign off on that. And they're struggling to say, hey, I want to invest in that, right? Because they read the news. And not only that, many investors in the multifamily space, know, us included, like we made investments, right? In the vintage years, 1920, 21. And you've seen the impacts of the market to those investments. So if you're telling someone, hey, make another investment in that same asset class,
David Moghavem (26:24)
Mm-hmm.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (26:49)
People are very hesitant right now, right? And it's like, you have to really educate people more on the nuances of why it makes a lot of sense to pull the trigger on a deal like that, even in today's environment. And I think it boils down to like a fundamental stock market investment technique they call dollar cost averaging, as you know. A lot of the OGs in real estate that I'm lucky enough to know and learn from, they all say the same thing. They say, hey, we buy when we find a good deal regardless of the market environment.
David Moghavem (27:08)
Mm-hmm.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (27:19)
Interest rates go up, they go down. That's just the cost of money. You put it in your model. What are my rents today, right? If they're below where the rent rule says they are, then hey, mark them to what they are today. And then you move forward and you know, the time in the market will be on your side rather than like, trying to time exactly when it's a good time to get in. But I will say you can't just do that like, you know, willy nilly, as they say across the country. There are definitely markets that are
doing better and I think we'll do better as we recover from like the capital market dislocation of the past several years for sure.
David Moghavem (27:53)
So yeah, so what is a good deal in your mind? What would be a good deal on the multi side for you guys to jump back into multi?
Enrique Huerta Airpods (28:02)
Yeah. And look, I think there is going to be a time and a place for sure. ⁓ One of the things that informed, in my opinion, the last decade of investing in real estate was a very low interest rate environment. So because yields were basically zero, people went out on the risk curve to make real estate investments. That is no longer the case. When treasuries are on either side of 4 %
and you've got interest accounts, savings accounts, should say, paying interest of three to 4%. And you have corporate bonds of very high quality companies, like Apple, paying mid to high single digit yields. Real estate, at end of the day, to you and us, it's our career, it's our livelihood, it's what we like and we're passionate about. But for most investors, it's just an alternative investment. And so from that perspective, I try to always keep that in the back of my mind.
because it's become much more of a talking point with a lot of investors. They're like, hey, if I'm getting XYZ, why would I buy a five cap apartment deal with all the risk involved, right? Correct, correct.
David Moghavem (29:04)
Exactly. If I could go risk free liquid asset for couponing
for four or five percent, why am I going to buy a five cap and leverage it and still get five percent cash on cash? know.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (29:11)
That's right. Yeah.
Exactly. So I think, you know, what does that look like? I think it's a greater reset to what real estate used to be, right? You used to be able to buy assets, reposition them, refinance out your equity and receive a cash on cash return of high single digits to infinity if you're able to pull your cash out, right? And so I think when real estate
It will probably happen in the, I don't know that it will ever happen in the class A space because at the end of the day, there's capital sources there that are long-term in nature that invest for quality, that invest for location and are less concerned about like day one yield or stabilized yield. They're just looking to bet on the future of a market, right? And so if we're talking class B and C real estate on the multifamily side, I think you have to be at least seven to 8 % cash on cash returns, right? When do we get there? I mean, hey, raise coming under five is
starting to help. ⁓ But you mentioned we're starting to see, we have seen in some markets operations soften. We're starting to see in other markets operations soften as we speak. So it's going to take some time, but I think that's what investors, at least that I've been speaking with, would like to see. ⁓ One of the bigger drivers I'm hearing about today is if someone's been invested in the stock market the past couple of years, I mean, they've made significant gains, right? So
David Moghavem (30:34)
yeah.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (30:35)
People are starting to feel a little nervous about that, you know, just given the headlines of job losses at like Target, Amazon, all those kinds of companies, as well as just like the multiples on these stocks, right? So what I'm hearing is not necessarily that people don't want to be liquid and don't want to be in the stock market. They're just saying, hey, let me take some of these gains and let me diversify them. Right. And so I think it's more of that kind of conversation of like, hey, if you have received significant gains in the market.
Have you thought about taking some chips off the table, preserving that capital in real estate, earning a comparable yield to like, you know, bonds or savings accounts, but you also get tax benefits that you would not see in the stock market, right? So I think it's just kind of going back to the nuts and bolts. Where an alternative, if someone wants to, you know, preserve their capital and get to a point where their income will get, will reach that point.
I think multifamily apartments will be competitive again when the cash on cash is, you know, seven, 8%. And that obviously varies by market and location, but that's like what I would look for. And so that tells me probably the Midwest is a good place to be looking.
David Moghavem (31:34)
Yeah.
And that's pretty hot right now for sure. I think you hear that when you do hear of equity investing right now in Midwest is the hot topic because they didn't get hit with the supply. It's very steady. It's had steady rent growth and good demos and jobs and is affordable. Exactly. So there's runway for rents to grow. I think I think you had an interesting point about the model of buying a deal, increasing the N.O.I.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (31:50)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Right?
David Moghavem (32:10)
and then cashing out to get to that outsized cash on cash. I don't know if that strategy is gonna come back for a couple reasons. I well, I just think, A, there's not enough conviction in the market to grow NOI, right? So the only way to really do a cash out is market interest rate compression in order to size. And then I also, I I don't know, I don't have any.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (32:19)
Don't think so?
Fair. Agreed.
Sure.
David Moghavem (32:39)
data for this, but it's a little bit more just like touch and feel. But I don't know if banks are going to cash you out like they did in the past, right? I think they like learned their lesson a bit. Yeah, where they're because I, you know, I remember that I remember, you know, I've done that on a few of our own family deals, try on deals, you would go to bank and they wouldn't even care what your basis is. They're like, you know what, it's sizes, boom, I'm giving you 100 % cash out.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (32:49)
Fair. Fair. They've learned from their mistakes. Yeah.
Sure.
David Moghavem (33:07)
I think they're gonna be a little more sensitive to that going in. That's just my gut feeling. When market's hot, ⁓ lenders sometimes do crazy things. But I don't know if they're gonna give you that type of house money to play with again. You know what I mean?
Enrique Huerta Airpods (33:12)
That's a good point.
That's a point.
Yeah. And I think a lot of it just goes with what you're saying. Like what type of leverage are they comfortable with? At Crystalview, the funds LTVs are sub 50%. And so go in all cash, we have effectuate those business plans, and then we put debt on the assets individually. But what you'll find is the LTVs are much lower. And I think in that case, the problem I think with multi has been people were buying these deals at 80 % LTV.
effecting the business plan and then they were re you know, re upping on the debt and so they were like 120 or 30 % LTV in theory, right? Yeah, all on paper, but now that things have shifted the other way. So now that on paper leverage is actually over levered. And so you're seeing that deal. So I agree, I think it's gonna take some time to unwind from that. And you know, will you see the plan that I mentioned in like, LA and Phoenix? Probably not. But if someone's comfortable going to like a
David Moghavem (34:00)
Highly leverage, yeah, yeah.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (34:23)
secondary or tertiary emerging market, think you'll yeah, well, there's some upside where there's still low enough basis to do that. I think you can do that. But that kind of builds into the point of why I'm you I'm not I wouldn't call it adverse to multifamily today, but just there's a lot of challenges with it. And it's a lot harder to find like a quote unquote, no brainer deal, right? Like, hey, this is a no brainer. It's very hard to do that. So yeah, I'm with you there.
David Moghavem (34:25)
where there's a little bit more upside in NOI growth there, yeah.
Yeah. So going back to,
yeah, exactly. So going back to Crystal View Capital's strategy, you were talking about how you guys are buying deals, all cash. What does all cash really mean to you? Because as you know, cash is king. That is the light bulb that goes into everyone's head when they hear a buyer that's all cash. And so what does all cash mean? Go a little bit about your strategy on how you're capitalizing these deals from start to finish.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (35:06)
Yeah.
Sure, yeah, yeah, ⁓
Yeah, I think it's truly all cash in the sense of, when we're talking to a broker or a seller, it's like, hey, we have money in the bank account that when we come to the table, we will just fund it, right? And that's because it's raised through the fund vehicle. So it's cash on hand. I'm sure the company has lines of credits and things like that, that a lot of investors have used or can use as well. But truly, we look to find assets where with the cash we have on hand, it's dry powder that's deployable.
And we're not looking to stay on the sidelines because again, a lot of the factors that have tainted like office buildings have affected multifamily and has kind of crept into industrial recently, like the oversupply, the operations going the wrong way. You know, in the industrial market, just like as a side thing, it's been very challenging because a lot of tenants, occupiers and companies are waiting for this whole terror situation to kind of clear up, right? Before they make decisions on leasing or expansion.
David Moghavem (36:14)
Mm-hmm.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (36:16)
So even some of the hottest product types have kind of softened. I would say, you know, none of those issues have affected the manufactured housing space. They did touch into the self-storage space, right? Because self-storage also got very, you know, supply heavy in certain markets. A lot of investors went into that space as well. And so that market slowed down. But the manufactured housing side, given that we're a cash buyer, not really subject to capital market disruptions.
We already kind of talked about the supply demand dynamic there and how it actually works in the favor of owners. And then really just, you know, as investors look for alternatives to some of these asset classes, they have focused on, they made a lot of money and they're struggling today. I think it's kind of the natural evolution of like, hey, I'm already doing housing. And I have this conversation all the time. People ask, what have you done student housing? Have you done senior housing? Have you done, you know, capital A affordable housing? Right. And it's like, have you done manufactured housing?
So I think it's just kind of now that it's getting into the vernacular of the housing industry, that's also very beneficial. But yeah, mean, know, very cut and dry buy a deal, wire the cash, and then once we stabilize it, then we'll look to, you know, put some debt on the asset, or we'll just look to sell it really just depends. The funds are 10 year vehicles. Some assets are held for three years, some for five, some are refinanced into, you know, five or seven year debt and may be held till the end of the fund life for sure.
David Moghavem (37:42)
Yeah,
it also makes sense that structure because you were just mentioning how like CNBS is pretty big in your guys' space and you rather put that CNBS debt when you've juiced out the upside rather than trying to put it and doing the upside when you already are locked in on a CNBS loan, for instance, right? And there's probably other product types. ⁓ So it makes sense to kind of like buy it all cash or buy it on a line or buy it on something that's flexible. ⁓
Enrique Huerta Airpods (37:50)
Mm-hmm.
Correct.
That's right.
David Moghavem (38:11)
do the value add, get the NOI to where it needs to be, and then put the debt on rather than putting the debt at acquisition. Also makes you a more powerful buyer.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (38:21)
That's right. We can move quicker, be more nimble. you know, we still do the same due diligence anyone would do through a finance acquisition. We're getting our third parties, environmental reports, survey title, all that good stuff. If anything, it's very important, you know, to get surveys and title because you have so many spaces, you want to know where your land actually is. And sometimes there's cloud on individual homes within manufactured housing parks. So it's really important to know what that I mean, it's important in every asset class.
David Moghavem (38:31)
Yeah.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (38:49)
But just a long way of saying despite buying cash, we still do every due diligence item that any investor would want to see. And you can't, you can't Yeah, exactly. Well, you know, I've heard some horror stories out there. just, you know, clarifying that. And so yeah, you know, we don't sacrifice quality or due diligence to move faster, but the owners and sellers, brokers appreciate that. course.
David Moghavem (38:56)
Yeah, we don't do DD just because the lender is telling us to. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah, makes sense.
Yep. zooming out a bit, how do you feel about the overall investor sentiment heading into 2026? What are your 2026 predictions?
Enrique Huerta Airpods (39:25)
wow. That's a that's a bold question. think. Yeah, it's a very loaded question. mean, you know, there's ⁓ I like you. like to read a lot of, you know, people that were connected with on LinkedIn and their thoughts, because a lot of the people we're connected with are not just, you know, academics or theorists like they're in the trenches, right? They're doing deals. They're issuing loans. They're raising capital. They're deploying capital. They're operating assets. And some of the sentiment I've gathered from everyone I speak with and
David Moghavem (39:27)
It's a loaded question, I know, yeah. ⁓
Mm-hmm.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (39:54)
connect with, I would say in multifacility specifically, some folks think the next year or two will bring some capitulation for some of those sellers that have been extending and pretending, holding on to their assets. ⁓ And so can I see that? definitely do think, like it's already started in certain markets. I've seen some of these quote unquote distressed deals in parts of Florida, parts of Dallas, parts of Houston, parts of Atlanta.
David Moghavem (40:21)
Mm-hmm.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (40:21)
⁓
The challenges in those markets are you have not only capital markets and operations, but tax and insurance, right? But we're even starting to see some foreclosures and some REOs and like Phoenix, parts of Southern California, ⁓ Washington state. So it's definitely emerging. And I think that will happen a little more. ⁓ In terms of investor sentiment, I think it's what I spoke about a little bit earlier. Like some people have made significant profits in the stock market.
They're a little nervous just kind of seeing all the economic data. And so they're thinking, hey, maybe it's time to take some chips off the table and make some more long term investments. And I think a lot of people are thinking ⁓ not that it's going to be smooth from this point forward, but we've been through some of the worst of the deterioration, right? In the capital markets and the operating fundamentals of real estate. And so going forward, it's going to be a little bumpy, but I don't think too bumpy to scare people off. So I think you'll start to see more people invest in real estate across all asset classes.
And with the Fed's ⁓ trajectory of rate cutting, I think that gives some more investors confidence that it may be the time to make a move. But I will also say I'm not a believer that inflation is in the rear view mirror. I still think we're seeing and will see inflation for some time.
David Moghavem (41:33)
Interesting.
Yeah, so
let's let's expand a little bit on that. How how do you see inflation kind of playing out? Do you you feel like it's something where the Fed still needs to kind of print to get out of some of our messes or
Enrique Huerta Airpods (41:50)
Oof. That's a good question. To be 100 % honest, I haven't thought through it and really come up with a cohesive idea. I just, I think that, you know, some of the shenanigans the government was playing with the shutdown and not releasing certain reports and some data, like there's a lack of, correct. I think there's, I think there's a lack of transparency and you know, I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but it may be intentional if the readings are not good, right?
David Moghavem (42:07)
Mm-hmm. Like we don't have a full clear. Yeah, we have a full picture.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (42:19)
And so I just think that there's, there's still some, and you'll see it when you're out in the marketplace. Like I've seen a friend of mine, a cousin of mine called me. He said a friend of his and him were looking to buy some property and they're like, Hey, do you know what a short sale is? And I was like, short sale. I haven't heard the word short sale in like 10 years. So I did a little bit of homework just for fun, poked around on Zillow and like, you start to see more short sales in the single family home market, right? You're seeing all these job losses on headlines from tech companies.
And you're just seeing this general softness. And I think it's because prices are just so high and people are really at the end of their rope, so to speak. I mean, you really other than gas, you haven't really seen much of a drop in pricing, right? Like asset values continue to climb. Grocery bills. I mean, I'm still surprised every time I go to a grocery store like, man, for those five things, was how much? And yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's good.
David Moghavem (43:12)
We're getting clipped at the grocery store. Yeah, I agree with that.
You
Enrique Huerta Airpods (43:17)
⁓ So it's not really anything scientific or academic. It's more of like you said, like touch and feel. It's a gut feeling and you kind of see it out there and you're hearing conversations. There's definitely some softness and some malaise, ⁓ but for investors, I mean, that's obviously an opportunity if you're thoughtful and you can deploy capital in a disciplined manner for sure.
David Moghavem (43:38)
I agree with that general sentiment. think from boots on the ground as a consumer, it's tough. Getting clipped, yeah. I really feel like every week I'm getting clipped. looked at my credit card bill and I see, what? How much for groceries? This is insane. Yeah, it's true. I know the average American's feeling it right now. So I agree with you and you're actually starting to see it. I'm sure you see it in the manufactured housing space. We see it in the multi-space that
Enrique Huerta Airpods (43:43)
Clipped sorry, that was good
Thanks
That's right. This is insane.
Mm-hmm.
David Moghavem (44:07)
There's cracks operationally. You're starting to see the cracks. But then from an investor sentiment, I think the private capital who has been through a few cycles sees the opportunity, sees how we're kind of working through it. So as long as you can kind of work through some of like the year one, year two struggles, I think you're going to start to see some real upside in real estate in 2026 and 2027.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (44:22)
Yep.
Yeah, I agree. I think, you know, obviously valuations and bridge that were a big issue a couple of years ago. But more than anything, it was just the mismatch between the debt and the business plan, right? Like, why would you get three year debt if you had a five or seven year hold? So I think a lot of investors have wisen up and they said, hey, we're in a potentially rocky time. Let's just put it to bed. And some of the bigger, smarter investors in my opinion, that's what they've been doing. They've been buying nicer assets, 10 year debt, low leverage, as much IO as they can get.
And they're going to weather that volatility because, they don't have near-term maturity on their loan, and they don't have to push rents 20 % to make their deals pencil. So I think if you just have that longer-term mindset, it helps a lot. So yeah, think the stress is spreading. There going to be some opportunities. And the last thing I would share is those deals, some of them are listed with brokers, but a lot of those deals are being cut directly with the lenders.
And a lot of people ask me, hey, how could I find distress? just share, you have to know the lenders. You got to call the balance sheet lenders, the bridge funds, the debt funds. You have to reach out to the brokers who specialize in debt and equity and really be in front of those guys because you're not going to get a blast from a national brokerage and say, hey, here's an opportunity for you. You'll see a couple that way, right? I've seen REOs blasted out by national shops and some foreclosures. That's when it's already foreclosed. And that's when like,
David Moghavem (45:56)
But that's when it's already, once it's already foreclosed. Yeah, exactly.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (46:02)
30 groups have already seen it, right? So if you wanna be one of 30, those relationships are being built at the capital provider level for sure.
David Moghavem (46:10)
Yeah, I agree with that. And I think maybe if you tried that a couple of years ago, lenders were a little bit more cagey, right? And it was probably a little too early. Yeah, they were saying like, ⁓ you got anything? And they're like, no, our portfolio is perfect. Don't call me back, please. Yeah, don't call me back, please. I think now people are starting, lenders and capital providers are starting to be a little bit more realistic, probably still a little bit more, still a little bit cagey, but at least
Enrique Huerta Airpods (46:16)
That's right. It's a word. Yep.
What are you talking about? Yeah.
That's right.
David Moghavem (46:40)
taking the time of day to talk to proven sponsors, proven operators, the ones who are self-managed, like Crystal View and Tryon, and the proven groups that say, can turn this around, we've dealt with distress before, we know how to turn around operational distress, give us a shot. And I think those are the type of deals that are getting cut right now, especially in those markets that you mentioned earlier that geographically are seeing maybe a little bit more distress than others.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (46:44)
That's right.
That's right.
That's right.
Mm-hmm.
Correct.
Great.
Yeah, and I think you touched on something very important. ⁓ A lot of these deals are even being cut the way you just described. They don't start out as a fee simple transfer, like, let me buy this deal at a rock bottom price, right? It's like, hey, Mr. Lender, I see you have some problems. We manage X amount in your market. We know we can turn around these assets for you. And if we do a good job after being a third party manager on your behalf, why don't we have that conversation about buying these assets from you guys?
You know, and it's also I think being an expert, having discretion, right, and not like just telling people what you're working on is something those people value a lot. So I've seen that happen in the Southwest quite a bit. And they start off as management relationships, asset management relationships. And then at some point, the lender says, hey, you're doing much better with this than we are. We couldn't sell it at the price we wanted to. Why don't you guys just take it? yeah, so I like I like that approach a lot. And it takes time, right?
David Moghavem (48:06)
Yeah, not
it takes time and not all lenders are built to manage, right? So they paid to really a win-win in that regard, especially on the markets that are tough to manage to bring on an operator that's proven and can manage their way out to reduce their impact on their value.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (48:22)
So what I want to flip the script. What's your take on 2026?
David Moghavem (48:23)
I gonna? Yeah, what's up?
Enrique Huerta Airpods (48:30)
Don't let our listeners down, man. Let them know. Let them have it.
David Moghavem (48:34)
Yeah,
I ⁓ think 2026, I'm optimistic from an investment standpoint. I'm cautious from an operations standpoint. think that's like, we said it already and I think that's like the plain simple answer to 2026. You're gonna see some opportunities as an investor. You're gonna see some good pricing on debt and then some good cap rates from via
Enrique Huerta Airpods (48:45)
Fair.
David Moghavem (49:02)
capitulation from sellers and people just kind of moving. So they're gonna see opportunities on the investment side. But when you buy that asset, it's not gonna be all roses and dandies, it's gonna be tough operating, it's gonna get tougher on the bad dead side. I don't think it's gonna be like a wave of operational distress like 08, but I think it'll be tough managing. And the good operators are the ones that are gonna benefit from that.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (49:09)
Sure.
Yeah.
David Moghavem (49:32)
I do think the 2026 summer is going to be a better summer than the 2025 summer just from like rent growth and trade out. think you'll get back to like neutral trade outs rather than some of the negative trade outs you saw. think depending on the market, the glut of supply that hit in 2021 or got built in 2021, 2022 and is now being absorbed today.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (49:42)
Sure.
Yeah.
David Moghavem (49:59)
I think it's going to be done. It's going to be the tail end of the absorption. so I think again, operations going to be tough, but investment, it's going to be hopeful. I'm hopeful.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (50:01)
Yeah.
I love that. I like it quite a bit. Which markets do you like best? Where's trying looking? Where are you looking?
David Moghavem (50:18)
Yeah, think, listen, I like out of favor markets right now. I like Atlanta. I feel like Atlanta is a market because I think there's a lot of headlines that were against Atlanta because of some of the struggles they've had with delinquency. But now you're seeing Atlantis on the tail end of that. Meanwhile, you're seeing other markets like Colorado, some parts of Florida.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (50:25)
Sure.
Yeah.
Just starting, right?
David Moghavem (50:43)
just starting it and
Enrique Huerta Airpods (50:43)
Yeah.
David Moghavem (50:44)
they don't know what to do from like a regulation standpoint to clean it up. And so I like Atlanta. We love the Bay Area right now. I think from just like a supply standpoint, ⁓ it's seen virtually no supply. You're seeing the AI, yeah, the job story. AI has completely transformed the city. ⁓
Enrique Huerta Airpods (50:57)
Sure.
and the job story.
David Moghavem (51:08)
The boom is incredible. There's been more investments in VC through AI this year than the past two to three years combined. ⁓ And then there's return to office right now. A lot of not just tech, but also government workers are back in the office in the Bay Area. And then there's a new mayor in the city of San Francisco who's done an incredible job. So people want to live there. So we like the Bay Area.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (51:13)
Love that.
That's huge. Yeah.
Mmm, okay.
David Moghavem (51:35)
We like Portland. We've always been active in the Pacific Northwest. We like the... Yeah.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (51:38)
Yeah, that's a contrary play. It's been out of favor
for a while, but people buying and investing their notes, it's doing just fine.
David Moghavem (51:45)
Exactly. we like we like the supply side of that. We like the fundamentals. Listen, the demand side, it's not screaming out the page like some of these Sunbelt markets of like inbound migration. But you have controlled supply. You have good demos out of all the major MSAs in the Pacific. It's got the best affordability. Right. So if you compare San Diego, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Portland and Seattle kind of going up that Portland has
Enrique Huerta Airpods (51:53)
Sure.
Yes.
That's right.
David Moghavem (52:14)
the most affordability from that income to rent ratio. So I think there's runway there. ⁓ I think we like those markets right now. We're still active in our other markets, but I think those three are the out of favor markets that we like.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (52:17)
Yep.
I love that.
Sure.
Yeah. No, I think those are all great markets based on what I know. And the Bay Area I've heard a lot, a lot of investors like that AI story. Do think there's a bubble in AI?
David Moghavem (52:41)
Whew, you're really coming in hot with the questions. I think there's a couple things. One is, I'm gonna answer it from a real estate perspective here. So I think the office market in the Bay Area is taking off right now and it's being filled with a lot of AI companies that are just getting started. And I'm not talking about the blue chip AI companies like OpenAI and things like that.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (52:42)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Sure.
Mmm.
Sure.
David Moghavem (53:11)
But
I'm talking about like the startup AI companies. And I don't know if they're all gonna be there in five years, similar to the dot com bubble. How like, I don't know if every dot com URL should be a real company, but it was getting capitalized that way. So I think there's a bubble in that regard. But I don't think it's a bubble long term. I do think there's a lot of runway. ⁓ If you look at the multiples at some of these
Enrique Huerta Airpods (53:19)
Fair. Yeah.
Definitely not.
Love that.
David Moghavem (53:40)
you know, Mag seven companies are trading at. I don't think that's necessarily a bubble. think there's real runway for those companies. But I do think there's a bubble in terms of like the smaller, the smaller guys that are trying to make something happen. So ⁓ they're kind of call it a mini bubble. I don't know. I think there's probably a little bit of a mini bubble in that regard. ⁓ It Yeah.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (53:51)
Yeah, sure.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know how it is. Everyone puts
AI in their name and then they want to go raise money, even if they're not even a real AI, you know, associated company or focus on that. get that.
David Moghavem (54:04)
Right.
Yeah, so I think there's a bubble in that regard for maybe some of the mid-tier to smaller type of AI companies. But I think from a general, long-run perspective, AI has ways to go.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (54:23)
love it. That's awesome. Well, hey, man, I have a million questions, but I know we both got other things we got to handle. Let's definitely let's keep chatting off the pod.
David Moghavem (54:32)
Yes, definitely. Am I going to see you at NMHC, by the way?
Enrique Huerta Airpods (54:35)
Yeah, that's the plan. So Chris Levy is based in Vegas and you know, we're 20 minutes from the strip. So from that perspective, I definitely plan to be there. No excuse not to go exactly. ⁓
David Moghavem (54:37)
Okay. Okay.
So you have no excuse not to come. Awesome. Well,
Enrique, I'm looking forward to seeing you there. And this was awesome chatting. Appreciate it. And maybe we get around to golf on the next one. We could have recorded even for the pod.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (54:54)
Let's do it.
There's plenty of nice courses in Vegas. Let's do it.
David Moghavem (54:58)
Awesome,
awesome, good stuff. All right, thanks. Thanks, Enrique.
Enrique Huerta Airpods (55:01)
So David, thank
you. Appreciate it.