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The Grazing Grass Podcast features insights and stories of regenerative farming, specifically emphasizing grass-based livestock management. Our mission is to foster a community where grass farmers can share knowledge and experiences with one another. We delve into their transition to these practices, explore the ins and outs of their operations, and then move into the "Over Grazing" segment, which addresses specific challenges and learning opportunities. The episode rounds off with the "Famous Four" questions, designed to extract valuable wisdom and advice. Join us to gain practical tips and inspiration from the pioneers of regenerative grass farming.
This is the podcast for you if you are trying to answer: What are regenerative farm practices? How to be grassfed? How do I graze other species of livestock? What's are ways to improve pasture and lower costs? What to sell direct to the consumer?
Welcome to the grazing grass podcast.
Episode 123.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
work under someone who has got experience
and knows what they're doing and just
spend as much time as you can learning
before you start out on your own
Cal: you're listening to the Grazing Grass
Podcast, sharing information and stories
of grass based livestock production
utilizing regenerative practices.
I'm your host, Cal Hardage.
You're growing more than grass.
You're growing a healthier
ecosystem to help your cattle
thrive in their environment.
You're growing your livelihood by
increasing your carrying capacity
and reducing your operating costs.
You're growing stronger communities
and a legacy to last generations.
The grazing management
decisions you make today.
impact everything from the soil beneath
your feet to the community all around you.
That's why the Noble Research
Institute created their Essentials
of Regenerative Grazing course to
teach ranchers like you easy to follow
techniques to quickly assess your forage
production and infrastructure capacity.
In order to begin
grazing more efficiently.
Together, they can help you grow
not only a healthier operation,
but a legacy that lasts.
Learn more on their website at noble.
org slash grazing.
It's n o b l e dot org
forward slash grazing.
On today's show we have Matthew Menke,
and Matthew talks about his journey
from conventional to regenerative
grazing over the last five years.
It's an excellent conversation.
And then for the overgrazing
section, we talk about a topic
we have not talked about before,
and that's apple cider vinegar.
You know, I hear a lot
about apple cider vinegar
in the homestead arena or with small
ruminants, but not so much with cattle.
So today we're talking
about it with cattle.
So excellent conversation.
We do have a bonus segment available
for the Grazing Grass Insiders
and that is over custom grazing.
However, I'm running a day or two
behind on that because we had a little
emergency here everything's fine.
Uh, it just kind of threw my schedule off.
Not a problem though.
But before we talk to Matthew,
10 seconds about my farm.
And on my farm we got some rain just in
the last week which has been really nice.
I've been walking over my past
paddock moves and I was getting
a little bit concerned that the
grass wasn't growing back as quick.
However, we got that rain and the
Johnson grass immediately started
putting out a lot more foliage.
And Johnson grass is one of those
bittersweet things, you gotta
be really careful grazing it.
However, I'm liking it right now,
and that's one thing, during the hot
summer it puts out a lot of foliage.
However, before we got that rain it
wasn't putting out a lot, so I was a
little concerned, but I looked at it
today, and we're gonna be in great shape.
Before we move on, 10
seconds about the podcast.
And I'd mentioned, um, at
the end of the podcast how we
didn't have very many reviews.
So those people who's gone out and left
us reviews, we greatly appreciate it.
And like one of my favorite podcasts
says, we always appreciate five
star reviews and positive comments.
Today's comment or review
says a great podcast.
I've only listened to two shows so far.
But I really enjoyed the conversations.
The questions and answers are good and
I enjoy the details given about the
operational practices people are doing.
MikeJ150 we appreciate you sharing a
review and giving us a five star rating.
If you've not given us a rating
wherever you listen to podcasts,
we encourage you to do that.
It just helps people when they're
searching for podcasts to come
across the Grazing Grass podcast.
So we got our 10 seconds about the
farm, 10 seconds about the podcast.
It's time to talk to Matthew,
and it's a good one today.
cal_1_06-05-2024_172342:
Matthew, we want to welcome you
to the Grazing Grass podcast.
We're excited you're here today.
squadcaster-91ab_1_06-05-2024_172342:
I'm happy to be here, Cal.
cal_1_06-05-2024_172342: Matthew, to
get started, can you tell us a little
bit about yourself and your operation?
squadcaster-91ab_1_06-05-2024_172342:
I am a sixth generation farmer and
rancher in Waller County, Texas.
That is in between Houston
and College Station.
It's about 70 miles
from the Gulf of Mexico.
Very hot, humid climate.
We get about 45 inches of rainfall a
year.
And we have a horse quality
square bale business, but we
also have a grazing business.
We, we graze cattle on areas that we
don't have square bell hay production in.
We own some of the cattle, we
custom graze for other people.
And in some areas rare
occasions, we actually put some
of our cattle out with others.
cal_1_06-05-2024_172342: So
you said multiple generations.
So how long have you been there?
Not let me clarify.
Not so much you but your family.
squadcaster-91ab_1_06-05-2024_172342: I,
our, my, my ancestors landed in Galveston
Island on New Year's Day of 1847.
And they just started like most
German immigrants that came to Texas.
They did come to Texas with some
resources, purchased a A small amount of
land, but also was able to participate
in some homesteading that that,
Texas had and received
a a land certificate.
And then, uh, my great grandfather and his
brother in law decided in 1880 that they
were going to cross the Brazos River and
purchase some property and attempt to pay
for it with grazing and cattle production.
cal_1_06-05-2024_172342: Oh
squadcaster-91ab_1_06-05-2024_172342:
And through the teens and the twenties.
From, from family records, we found they
were reasonably successful at doing that.
And continued on through
the great depression.
Unfortunately, my great
grandfather died in 1933, right
in the middle of the depression,
so there was a little bit of a division
of property there, but it's been
passed down two more generations to me.
And my sisters and and then also had
some cousins that are still involved
we still work together as a family and
although our operations and enterprises
are completely separate, but we still
work together and we're neighbors and
we help each other and continue on
a little family tradition that way.
cal_1_06-05-2024_172342: Now
you mentioned your sisters.
Are they part of your
business or are they separate?
squadcaster-91ab_1_06-05-2024_172342:
That, that.
It is my business, but my sisters
are landowners and and my mother
also, and mother and father,
but they're good landlords and
they believe they believe
in what we're doing and,
actually they participate.
In fact, one of my sisters
helps me move cows.
She's on duty every other weekend to
make our moves and very thankful to have.
Family members that not only believe
in what we're doing, but we'll
actively participate in it as well.
cal_1_06-05-2024_172342:
yeah, that is nice.
Now I know from reading your website, I
hate to even say this on the podcast, but
you graduated from that college that in
Oklahoma, we don't like to say its name.
And you might say University
of Texas right off, but it's
that other college down south.
squadcaster-91ab_1_06-05-2024_172342:
Don't let the collegiate affiliation fool
you are the, although we are diehard.
I shouldn't, I don't know
whether I should say that or not.
I, we are multi generation Aggies here,
cal_1_06-05-2024_172342: Oh yeah,
squadcaster-91ab_1_06-05-2024_172342:
will.
Freely admit that very little
of what I practiced today.
I learned at that
cal_1_06-05-2024_172342: well, you know,
I've Mentioned it numerous times, I went
to Oklahoma State, but most of the stuff I
do came about a long time after that time.
Now When you went to Texas
A& M, did you go for ag?
squadcaster-91ab_1_06-05-2024_172342:
I did.
Just so many of my, uh, neighbors and
my, my ancestors before me and even
some of my classmates growing up, we
went for an animal science degree.
We wanted to
learn about cat, cattle
production particularly.
So that was our, that was my focus there.
I did not return to the.
Family business immediately after school.
At that time, our family business
was in transition and, for lack
of a better term, was on pause.
I went to work for a a precondition,
a really large preconditioning yard
and spent a lot of time learning
about feeding cattle and backgrounding
and preconditioning cattle.
From there, ended up transitioning
into the retail feed business, and
then eventually ended up owning
a full service ag service
company, feed, fertilizer.
We were I was the exact
opposite of what I am today.
I was an input seller and
promoted any and all inputs.
And of course, everything that our
universities taught us to do and
practices to add and products to promote.
And I spent about 11 years doing that.
cal_1_06-05-2024_172342: What
caused you to change to the
model you're following now?
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508: The
beginning of my journey started with a
dear friend and a respected horse trainer
from Idaho named Martin Black one of my
best friends or definitely my best friend
and an employee of mine, Steven Lewis, and
I provided some cattle for a horse clinic
that Martin was putting on in our area.
And we got to participate in the clinic
kind of in exchange for the cattle.
And Steven and I.
Uh, believe ourselves to be fairly
qualified stockman, especially
when it comes to horses and low stress
stockmanship horseback with cattle.
We've spent our lives working on that
and trying to perfect that as a skill.
And We went to this clinic and Martin
proceeded to explain to us exactly
why we were doing everything exactly
backwards.
And just short of berated
us for four days in a row.
He was really hard on us and tough on us.
And we held our tongues and listened.
And after some time went by, we decided
that we were going to try some of his
methods and try some of his principles and
lo and behold, they worked so well and we
were amazed at what we were able to do,
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Oh,
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
putting those practices into place,
especially with a lot fewer people,
we were doing things by ourselves
or the two of us that we would
have normally had to hire help.
Or might've
taken four or five or six people.
And I looked at Steven one day and I
said, if we could be wrong about this,
we could be wrong about anything.
And so that, that made me decide to
question every practice that I had ever
participated in whether we'd been doing
it for a year or for a hundred years.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Oh, yeah.
And at that time, you'd provide
some cattle to it, so you were
grazing cattle at that time.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508: Yes.
By that time we were, I told you before
we, the family business was on pause.
I went through that time period I was
describing earlier, but eventually
we did, I did transition back into
operating our family business.
And then, then again, after
that After that incident just
upset the whole apple cart.
The apple cart is falling
over apples everywhere.
And again, we just started to question
everything and decided we're going
to put the apples back, from start
over from ground zero in a way.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: When you
started questioning everything,
what process did you go?
Did you go to some conferences to listen?
Did you find some books?
YouTube at the time?
What was your process to really
gain knowledge in these areas and
see, is the way we're doing it good?
Do we need to
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
so there was another person who I
met, Martin was very influential
just from that questioning side.
Not
to mention that stockmanship is
so important in everything we do.
I didn't know at the time how
important better stockmanship
was going to be in grazing.
So it was, I think it's interesting
that was literally the first.
Part of it, but another gentleman
named Burke Teichert, who I met at an
event that was completely unrelated to
agriculture, but we started talking, we
ended up eating lunch and we're visiting.
So we had that in common and I really was
fascinated with some of his experiences
and some of his means and methods.
So I just searched him on YouTube,
look for some any talks or
lectures that he had and that.
It probably originally started as
a kind of a YouTube rabbit hole.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Oh, yeah.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
once, once you search for Burke
Teichert, then you get other suggestions.
So then you get Jim Gerrish and then
you get Alan Williams, then you get
Greg Judy and a list goes on and on.
And every, everything that I heard
made me, it intrigued me so much.
And then I started
hearing the commonalities.
I started
hearing these things that are.
Although they're not exactly the same, but
you start hearing about these principles.
That you've got everybody
in essence saying the same
thing just in a different way.
And I said, man, this
is not crazy business.
Somebody's got, somebody knows
something I don't know, and I want to
find it out.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: So what?
So you, you start researching
this more, you've had a couple
relationships that really helped you.
What was the first practice
you changed on your ranch?
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
The first practice was to practice.
And I mean practice electric fencing.
I
mean that in a joking manner.
We were definitely practicing.
We had never used electric fence.
And again, it's ironic.
I used to think.
When I was trying to decide the direction
that the grazing business might go, I
kept thinking, what would it be like
if we could build more cross fencing?
And what would it be like
if we had more pastures?
And of course, that
In my mind, that was actually just
coming from, if I would have put that
into place, I would have been grazing
completely incorrectly because my.
My idea of what rotational grazing is
supposed to be was completely flawed, but
still I kept thinking, would it be nice
if we could have more pastures, but it was
always the cost was always stopping me.
I can't afford this fence.
This fence costs too much money.
Even if we build it
ourselves, we would never
be able to pay for this fencing with
the production level that we have.
And then when we got into electric fence,
and then it opened my eyes and said this.
Is a lot less expensive.
You can do one wire.
I can use this one charger and I
can use one charger for 500 acres.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Oh
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
and that, so that, that was the
first practice and just learning
that we could use electric fence.
And of course we did everything
wrong that you could do,
but we learned.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: yeah.
I know when you say that, I think
back to when we dairied and we started
dabbling with electric fence and
moving our dairy cows a little bit.
And, every time I went out
there, I had a few animals out.
I didn't understand the principle.
For one thing, you gotta
ground your energizer.
We never did.
We just hooked it to a fence or
didn't really make a conceded
effort to make a good ground.
We were buying low cost energizers When
we changed that around and really invested
in a good energizer, did the grounding
system as recommended, totally changed.
I went from playing with electric
fence to it becoming a tool.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
Yes, exactly.
I couldn't say it better myself.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Yeah.
I think back to it and I'm always like,
how, why was I such a slow learner?
But that's just me.
So we'll go with it.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
We're, Cal, we're all a
little guilty of that.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: So you
have your, you got electric fence
going, you're starting to graze
rotate your cattle or move them a
little bit more and more adaptive.
Let's talk a little bit about your
cattle and what you're grazing.
I know you have your own cows
and you do some custom grazing.
Let's get into first your own cows and
how you manage them and what you have.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
So, I'll give you a quick little preface.
The next big change we made was
changing our calving season.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Oh, actually
that's a great topic we should talk about.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
okay, we can do that real quick and then
we can go to the cows because really
and truly the kind of cattle you have.
The kind of cattle I have, what color they
are, what shape they are, it's completely,
it's one of the last things I worry about.
As long as they fit your environment, it
doesn't really matter what they look like.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: It doesn't
matter, and I'm always guilty because
I love to find out what breeds people
are running, but really there's
enough difference within a breed that
you gotta find animals that does,
that work for you in your context,
and that's the most important part.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
Yes, sir.
So shifting over to that breeding
season, that was tremendous.
We were winter calvers.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Oh,
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
would calve in December,
January and February.
And I probably spent a year resisting
changing the calving season.
I certainly missed at least one.
I'd have to go back and look.
I might have missed two bull turnouts.
The opportunity to change.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Oh,
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
I was It made,
it did make sense, but at the same time,
I just no one in my area does that.
It was so contra, In my area, you either
have no calving season, you leave the
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Oh,
right, bull out year round.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
or you are a fall calver,
or you're a winter calver.
I knew no one who intentionally calved
in the true spring for us, so it was
really difficult, and I kept worrying
about, if you calve in the spring,
that means you breed in the summer.
And summers
are brutal here.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Oh, yes.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
we're talking, close to triple digits for
three, four months, nineties all the time.
Last year, we had 72
days of triple digits.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Oh, wow.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
Yeah, that was an anomaly, but still 72
days of triple digits here
and very high humidity.
We're 70 miles from the
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Oh yeah,
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508: So
to say all that, I was very reluctant.
When someone explained to me that
you need to calve and sync\ with your
forage resource, that made sense.
I'm like, why should a calf be hitting
the ground in January and February, which
is the worst month of the year for us?
That is the hardest month for a cow to
survive in our environment is February.
Why do I want to make that cow start
to lactate and ask her to do even more?
But I just couldn't, I wasn't
sure about that summer breeding.
But finally, we we did make the
change and it has been amazing.
It's just been amazing to
see that it can be done.
And how much it changes your level
of inputs, how much it reduces
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508:
yeah, it does, yeah.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
Just quick math.
It's probably now saving me somewhere
between 150 and 200 a cow per
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Oh
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
And that's huge.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: yes it is.
Now, one thing you mentioned
there, part of your reluctance was
that breeding during high summer,
that hot weather, high humidity.
How did breeding season go for you?
Were you able to just take your
cows, change the time you turn out
your bulls, and it worked for you?
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
No it did not work And I think mainly
it was because of the transition year.
If I had it to do over again,
I would do it differently.
There were several of my cows
that made the change and rebred
and have subsequently rebred
every year and stay in the herd.
I had some cattle that I purchased in that
process that absolutely were not adapted
at all and could not handle the heat.
regardless.
And then we have had some success
with some of our own replacement
heifers that were conceived
here, born here, and bred here.
And they're doing better.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: oh yes, yeah.
Yeah.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
So I guess the answer to that question
was, is a little bit of everything.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: If
you mentioned there that that
transition year, if you had to do
it over, you would do it different.
If you had to do that
over, how would you do it?
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
I would have either sold
the entire cow herd.
and bought a different one.
Or, I would have done a better job of
wintering the cattle the first winter.
When you decide to change your
breeding season, you delay, or in
my case, you delay bull turnout.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Yes.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
That, the problem is not solved yet.
That is next year's calf crop.
The calves from the previous breeding
season and breeding decision that you
made, you still have to deal with.
And so I still had a cow herd that was
still calving in January and February,
and I did not feed them well enough.
I thought to myself, I thought,
these cows, instead of me turning
the bull out in March, I'm
going to turn it out in June.
They're going to have a couple of months
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: A
couple
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
really good grazing, and this
should be on a high plane nutrition
and they ought to breed up.
But I think what actually happened was
all that extra nutrition, they just turned
it into milk and gave it to their calf
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Oh,
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
they didn't improve their body
condition enough to get bread.
If I had it to do over again, I
would go ahead and have those cows
in December and January and I would
just feed them Whatever it takes to
keep that good body condition over the
winter, set them up for their for spring.
And just don't let them
go backwards one bit.
You got to hold your nose and get through.
That first year until you can reap
the benefits of calving later.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Oh, yeah.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
And I do think there's a percentage
of cows that don't respond just
because it's a shock to their system.
I
still think when you're changing, you
could probably do everything right.
And you're still going to have
some cows fall out because they're
just they're eight, nine years old.
They're used to breeding in May
and March and April every year.
And that's when we get bred and our
bodies are synchronized that way.
And then all of a sudden you introduce a.
Disruption to the system
and they just don't respond.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Did you
have any trouble with bull fertility
breeding during the hot summer?
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508: No.
We definitely selected
heat tolerant bulls.
We made a huge change in our bulls.
The cows, we tried to use the cows we had.
We had cows that had heat tolerant
genetics at different levels.
Some of them were very heat tolerant,
some of them were just slightly
heat tolerant, and some of them
weren't heat tolerant at all.
And keep in mind that the majority
of our acres, there's no shade.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Oh, yes.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
So they have to, the only shade
they get is from 9 PM to 6 AM.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Yeah.
And with your bulls, you said
you made a little bit of change.
What kind of type of bull did you
go with when you made that change?
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
we started with some South Pole bulls
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Oh, yes.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
We're happy with those.
And I'm still happy with South Pole as a
breed, mainly because of heat tolerance
and being raised in a low input system.
And then we also have quite a few.
Red Angus times centipole
or red Angus time Meshona
or red Angus times different percentages
of quote unquote, a tropical breed.
Our goal here is to try to keep
our bulls about 50 percent tropical
breeding, either Meshona centipole.
Or even that Ramos and Wano
bull from Spain or a breed from
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Oh, yes.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
And then Tom Red Angus, just
trying to get the most we want a
very slick, short haired animal.
But that has as much
muscling as we can get.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Right, yes
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
the number one thing is that they're
raised in a low input system.
Grass based, no grain, flow growth.
The system or the program that the
bulls come out of, in my opinion,
is more important than the pedigree.
And more important than
the breed composition.
I don't get
hung up on that's only 25 percent Mashona
or that's only, that's three eighths
Senepol and I don't get hung up on that.
I get hung up on the program and then
generally just a phenotype of the bull.
Does the,
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Oh, yeah.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
look at his hair coat look at those
secondary sexual characteristics,
obviously, fertility feet and legs.
All the other things that we, you know
we, you just, you have to start with
all of those fundamentals and basics.
But
if the bull thrives in a low input
system and developed in, that's another
thing, the bulls I buy other than,
I bought some bulls from Missouri.
But, Missouri has in the
summertime definitely has a
very similar climate to us.
Their winters might be a little different,
but their summers are pretty close,
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Yes.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
but most of the other bulls that I buy
are born in the Southern environment
in there and they're developed
certainly in a climate similar to mine,
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Oh yeah, on a
forage program, so they're not, when you
get them, they don't fall apart because,
oh, there's no grain available now.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
no, and I am happy to show
people my bulls at any time.
My bulls don't get anything.
They thrive on sea salt and sunshine.
That's all they get.
We don't, and we only touch them once
a year when we fertility test them.
And they are an excellent body condition.
And that's what makes me always feel
good about, what we're doing, although
we still are transitioning and we're
still having a lot of challenges with
those cows trying to breed them up.
I can go look at that bull battery and
say these bulls are making it on nothing.
They've got, they're
passing those genetics on
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: oh yes,
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
So we've just got to be
patient and stick with it.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: And are you
finding the daughters of those bulls
functioning well in your environment?
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508: Yes.
They're not 100 percent because 50
percent of the genetics still come from
the cow and we've still got some cows
that are pretty big, pretty framey and
have a higher maintenance requirement.
Therefore, on a low input
system, sometimes they're going
to react a little negatively,
but I think once we start stacking
these generations, we've got some,
we've got some 2 time generations.
On the ground now, bred back to
those low input bulls and then their
daughters bred back to a low input bull.
Those are hitting the ground now.
And then of course we'll be
conceiving some third generations
here in about a month.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: oh
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
I think that we're going to have
some compounding effects here
in the next two to three years.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: oh yeah.
I think so, yes.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
And for something I know you're
going to want to hear about in order
to speed this process up, we're
definitely using some Corriente cattle.
To provide an adapted female that we can
just purchase and she will adapt as is.
And doesn't need two,
three or four generations
down the road before they're adapted.
And so we run quite a few straight
Corriente cattle and even some,
Corriente time beef and was able to
even find some Corriente time South Pole
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: oh yes.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
past fall.
Uh, and we're very happy with those.
I just just a side story.
August Horstman on his podcast a week
or two ago, he said some guy came
and bought all those Corrientes that
he, when he destocked, that was me.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Oh
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508: I
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: that was you.
You went and got
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
Yeah.
And they're doing well.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508:
Oh very good, yeah.
I'm a fan of the Corriente cows.
They're doing good for me.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
Yeah we, instead of trying to breed
framing conventional cows down, now
we're trying to breed Corriente cows up.
And I think the answer is
somewhere in the middle.
The answer generally is
always going to be a balance.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: it is.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
we're not hardliners here.
The only thing you have to do to stay here
on our place is walk and get pregnant.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Yeah,
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
you walk
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508:
do your job, not a problem.
Now, when you wean your calves, are
you selling them shortly after weaning,
or are you grazing them for a while?
How are you marketing
them and growing them out?
What's the process after weaning?
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
So traditionally every
year, except last year.
We keep all our yearlings.
We precondition all our yearlings.
We expose every heifer and allow them a
chance to get bred in a 60 day season.
If they get bred, they can stay.
If they don't, we sell
them as a feeder heifer.
And we will graze those steers for an
additional year and sell a long yearling.
Last year, we had to implement
a drought plan and we
sold everything.
We preconditioned everything,
but we did sell it.
We did not retain it.
Because we didn't have the
feed resources to winter
the animals.
And that's part of the system that
the idea is that we retain those and
count on those yearlings to graze.
But if we don't have the forage or we, if
it gets too dry, we can sell them first.
And
last year we pulled the trigger on that.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: and I really
like that model, because you get
those long yearlings, you can graze
them and If grass becomes short for
whatever reason, that's your first out.
That's, that class leaves the
farm and you're able to destock
without getting into your cow herd.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
Yes, sir.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Are you
marketing any, are you taking any
through processing or are you selling
them all through traditional channels?
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
Because of our numbers, we're still
selling through traditional outlets.
We graze for our own use and a few,
friends and neighbors and We will
do some attempting to grass finish.
Some animals and we'll
grain finish some animals.
We have a customer.
That's what they want.
We'll provide whatever they want,
but that's a very small scale.
We've got pretty high numbers.
And we were, although we
would like to someday.
I would be very interested in working
on a more consistent way of grass
finishing some animals and direct
marketing some, but right now we've
got to get the basics down right first.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Oh yeah.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
concentrate on grazing, concentrate
on our genetics and getting those
animals a consistent supply of animals
that thrive in our environment.
And then we may move on to the next
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Get you that
consistent product you can put out because
your animals are consistent and uniform.
Yeah it just doesn't happen overnight.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
It certainly doesn't.
Yeah.
And I'm an impatient person by nature.
And I think this is another
way of God teaching me patience
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Oh yes,
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508: yet
another way.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Yet another
way I can attest to that as well.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
Yeah.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: In
addition to your own cattle, you
are custom grazing some animals.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
Yes, sir.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Are you, let's
just talk about that program for a second.
For a little bit.
You bring them in the summer grazing
or in the spring grazing them through
summer out in the fall or how's that
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
Right now we actually have full
time cows, year round cows that were
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Oh,
okay.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
a customer.
We will, would take stockers
if it's appropriate.
Right now where we have a customer who's
production system is not exactly like
ours, but similar to ours and for me,
custom grazing is a business decision.
It is a way of being a diverse I'm happy
having custom grazing cattle, probably
at somewhere between 20 to 30 percent
of my carrying capacity, regardless.
I just think that's a wise business move
because even though sometimes I may be
able to have a higher profit on the cattle
that I own, the custom grazing is steady.
And it provide, it
provides some cash flow.
I'm not saying that someone ought
to be all custom grazing and someone
ought to have all cattle ownership.
I just like having a
little diversity in there.
So I like having a certain percent
custom grazing, a certain percent
stockers and a certain percent cow calf.
It just spreads the risk out and it
provides a more consistent cashflow.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Yeah.
Just on the subject of stockers,
we're jumping back just a little bit.
Are you only using the calves
you raise as stockers or are
you bringing in some stockers as
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
No, I have not brought any
stalkers in from outside
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Oh
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
I'll also make this statement.
I.
I'm not a hundred percent sure that
our environment is really conducive
for stock or cattle because of our
forage base, because of our temperature
still doing a little, still doing a
little bit of research on that and
grazing my own animals to see what kind
of average daily gains we can really
achieve, even with daily moves
and maybe even twice a day moves.
Um, There's no sense reinventing the
wheel, or there's no sense putting so
much effort into something that is just
not really, I hate to use the word meant
to be hate to try to paddle upstream.
That's what I'm trying to say.
In our area I think traditionally
more stockers would be a cool
season and it'd have to be a cool
season annual that was planted
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Oh, okay.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
and the costs and inputs are so high.
I have not really been
able to make that pencil.
We, in the, in, in grazing perennial,
Warm season grasses, that cost is
very low, but if our gains are low, we
may be better off just grazing cows,
because if the forage base meets
a cow's requirement on a low cost.
That just may be where we are.
If we're trying to put, we may
be trying to put a square peg
in a round hole with stockers.
I'm, the
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Right.
And you, you may be.
Yeah.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
Jury's still out on that, but I think
that's one of the other reasons why
I'm experimenting on my own cattle.
Because if I take some outside cattle
And I'm getting paid on the game.
And, even if we've got a low
cost, if we're only gaining 3
quarters or a pound ahead of day,
customers, not going to be happy.
I'm not going to be
happy in my bank account.
It's not going to be happy.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Yeah.
Yeah.
All excellent points there.
And using your own animals, you
can see what's possible there.
With genetics, it's made for
grasses or for forage only.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
Yeah.
And I do think that as we get better at
grazing, we're going to get better gains.
that's just still, we've still
got to measure that and confirm
that we put it that way.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Yes.
There's usually about two weeks every
spring, I think I'm a great grazer.
And then the fescue all seeds
out and I'm like, oh boy, how do
I not slow that down each year?
Anyway, off that tangent.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
Yeah, I
feel for you.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: but on
that subject, what are you grazing?
What are your forages there?
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
So we are working on mainly Bahia grass.
There is, there's some Bermuda
grass component, and then there's
some there are still some warm
season perennial native forages.
We do have a component.
It's not a huge component,
but it is there.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Yes.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
And, Cal, I'm going to tell
you, we graze a lot of weeds.
That is That is a very large
component of our warm season
forage base, is an annual weed.
And that's one of the things
that Corrientes have done
such a good job at doing.
We're getting so much more utilization
because of their non selectivity.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Oh,
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
And I am also convinced that those
Corriente cattle are teaching the
conventional cattle to eat more weeds.
Thanks.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Right, yeah.
I said this it's been quite
a it was probably a year ago
I said this on the podcast.
I'd read I'd got the e book on training
cows to eat weeds from on pasture.
I can't think of the lady's name and
I should be able to, I apologize.
Anyway, I got that e book and I read it
and I'm just going to get my cattle to eat
thistles more because it's just a problem.
Yeah.
and I read the book, I'm getting
stuff around and I go up there and
I go move the cows and I'd put them
in an area that had some thistles
and those Corrientes had took off
all the flowers on those thistles.
I
thought I guess I'm
finished training them.
I need them to
train my other cows.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
would encourage you to be
consistent and stick with it.
And, of course, increase your density
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Yes.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
as practical.
And that's, ask the animals.
To eat the weeds.
That's what I call it.
I, when I working on the grazing
plan and you're looking at what's out
there and you're going to determine
how big a paddock am I going to make?
A lot of that says, there's this much
grass and there's this much weeds.
We're going to ask the
cows to eat the weeds.
And
then we're going to.
Observe, and then we're
gonna respond accordingly.
And if 80% of your cattle are
thriving on that weed and grass
mix I think that's probably,
you're probably on the right track.
You may have some cattle fall out,
but if you could have 80% of your
cattle utilizing or increasing
your U utilization by 50%.
You probably afford to
cull those, that bottom
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Oh yeah.
Yeah.
I think you're onto something there.
Yeah.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
I look at weeds now as my
diversity because a lot
of our field, like I said, we're
at a monoculture kind of bahiagrass
because that's what's been here.
And I would love for perennial natives
to provide my diversity and that is,
it is there.
And I think better grazing is going to
increase that, but weeds are my diversity.
They're providing different leaf
structure and they're providing
different roots and they're affecting
the soil biology in a different way.
And if my cattle will eat them, or
even if they will eat half of them,
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Oh,
yeah.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
it's been working.
You just have to have the right kind
of animal, an animal that's willing
to try and willing to eat them.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: And that's
something you mentioned earlier
about training your other cow seed.
Those future generations of your
animals are going to have a much
more varied diet because those other
animals are eating those weeds and
then the other animals are seeing that.
They're training the calves to see that.
It's just going to improve
as you move forward.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
I agree.
And again my bulls are
treated the same way.
And they're passing those genetics on
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
And, we, we're very low input on the cows.
We don't deworm.
We don't vaccinate the cows.
Will doctor a foot rot
And I try to catch it early and
preventative, and then I'll mark
that cow and most likely market
that cow pink eye or a foot rot.
And, uh, I was just observing today,
it is June the 5th, and I was out
there earlier today, doing this
rudimentary fly count, and I couldn't
find a cow with more than 50 flies.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Oh, yes.
Very
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
And pe a lot of people will
say you need to spray flies.
And I'm like, if I sprayed that
cow in a week, she'd have at least
that many flies right back on her.
I didn't do anything but spend money.
If there's only 50 cows
on, 50 flies on the cow.
That's as good as it's going to get.
You need to be happy.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: And I'm sure
if you look at your cows, you've got
some cows that have super low number
of flies and you've got other cows
that the flies just seem to flock to.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508: Yes,
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: think those
ones that want to carry all the flies
need to go to someone else's place.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
Yes, sir.
I agree.
And it just takes it, it takes the
willingness and the discipline to do that.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Yes.
And that discipline is really tough.
But yes, if you have the discipline
and willing to do it for the long haul,
you can make some difference there.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
Yes, sir.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Matthew,
I've really enjoyed the conversation
thus far, and we haven't really dove
too deep, but it's time for us to
transition to our overgrazing section.
And the overgrazing section is something
we take a little bit deeper dive into
what you're doing on your operation.
And our overgrazing subject
today, or topic, is not one
we've even talked about yet.
It's apple cider vinegar.
First off, for our listeners who
haven't heard about apple cider
vinegar, What are we talking about?
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
Apple cider vinegar, raw,
unprocessed and unpasteurized.
Those are the keys.
It's the apple cider vinegar, quote
unquote, with the mother is effective
for A lot of things, and there are
a lot of people, and there's a lot,
there's podcasts, and there's books,
and there's YouTubes, and you, and
there's a lot of things you can
find out different ways of different
benefits from apple cider vinegar.
I can tell you what we use it
for, and what our experience is.
I think
that's what would be appropriate
for this overgrazing.
I was looking for a
product that I could use.
in the wintertime to increase
the utilization of my standing
poor quality stockpile.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Oh,
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
Our goal is to graze the grass up
in the growing season, and we're
fortunate that we can continue to
graze in November, sometimes even
through December, we can still have
grass with a little green to it.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Oh
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
technically quote unquote alive.
But when we get to January and February,
we're going to get cold weather.
We're going to get a freeze
and we're going to get rain.
And that's one of the big things
that's different between grazing
stockpile in Oklahoma and grazing
stockpile at Menke Farm and Ranch Inc.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Oh yes.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
Our grass begins to actually deteriorate
because generally our winters are
wet and you're going to have, I
just call it rotten.
The grass rots.
Now, we've got dry cows in January
and February, so lower maintenance
requirement, lower nutrient requirement
in general, but we're not feeding hay.
We grazed 365.
This, my main herd, I have not fed a roll
of hay to my main herd in three years.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Oh
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508: do
have to supplement something to to help
them utilize that poor quality forage.
I traditionally would use cottonseed
cubes, and I would just feed them
a level of cottonseed cubes on a
per head per day basis until their
manure started to flatten out.
So if that
was two pounds ahead of day, that's great.
A little bit later in the year, maybe
got to go to three pounds, maybe got
to go to four pounds, but that's how
I judge when the manure flattens out,
then I know that I'm feeding right.
In trying to reduce that cost and
then also trying to reduce the
labor, because 650 cows in one mob.
and you're feeding them four pounds
a head a day of cottonseed cubes,
that's a lot, that's a lot of
physical tonnage that you have to get
distributed out and get
consumed in a consistent manner.
Apple cider vinegar definitely will
increase the digestive efficiency.
That's really what it's doing.
It allows the cow to extract more
nutrients from the plant than without it.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Oh
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
there are a lot of people that I
talked to that said they were able
to graze through winter stockpile
with a dry cow and so many ounces
of apple cider vinegar ahead of day.
And that's all was really needed.
So that was what we tried and we
use what's called the Dosatron.
I actually put the apple
cider vinegar in their water.
Our grazing systems are
all on pressurized water.
We have pond or dirt
tanks, but we, they're
actually fenced off.
We fence off our dirt tanks.
We only use them for emergency if we
lose power or that there's some other
type of disruption with the water system.
So that means if a cow's
going to drink water.
We, in essence, have a way to force
feed them the apple cider vinegar.
And not only that, we know that the
cows are basically going to get it
on a consistent basis because every
cow drinks water and in general, they
drink water based on their body weight.
So in other words, it's, a little six
weight yearling is going to drink.
the amount of water for her body and then
therefore get that percentage of apple
cider vinegar and a thousand pound mature
cow is going to drink more water and
therefore get more apple cider vinegar.
And with that Dosatron, it was so easy.
All we have to do is fill up a tote
of apple cider vinegar, connect it to
that Dosatron and turn the water on.
It's not electric.
It works on the flow of the water.
So
every gallon of water that flows
through the Dosatron, it meters So
many ounces of apple cider vinegar
into the water and other than
periodically having to refill the tote,
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Yes.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
that's all the labor.
The only other labor is going and
checking and monitoring how many
ounces of apple cider vinegar you're
distributing every day and then looking
at the results and looking how the
cattle are performing and adjusting
the apple cider vinegar accordingly.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: And
when you started doing that I
assume you use custom words.
cotton seed one year and then the next
year you went to apple cider vinegar.
Did you do, did you go whole hog
and do the whole herd that way?
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
I did.
I went whole hog and
did the herd that way.
And my answer for a one year trial is.
Apple cider vinegar alone
is still not enough.
It did what it did as advertised,
and you can see it in the manure.
You can
see the particle size of undigested
fiber go from an inch or three quarters
of an inch down to a quarter of an inch.
It is amazing, but
there, there is time, especially in, in,
in the month of February, where our forage
gets so poor that it's still not enough.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Oh yeah.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
the answer is next year, I'm going
to, I'm going to start feeding apple
cider vinegar probably in December,
and I'm going to watch that manure.
And then when it.
When it starts to flatten out, I
probably will have to give some
cubes also, but I think based on my
calculations, I will probably feed less
than half the cubes I normally feed.
And even with the cost of the
apple cider vinegar, it's still
going to be quite a bit cheaper to
winter the cows on a total.
Total dollar amount.
And that's all that really
matters is what's the total
cost for the end of the
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Yeah.
Well, very good.
Have you, have you noticed
any other benefits or anything
that was surprising to you?
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
No, other than it is well known that
apple cider vinegar helps with internal
parasites that a lot of people in the
grass finish and grass fed world are all
natural and don't want to use a dewormer.
I've had success.
Using apple cider vinegar to reduce
or eliminate internal parasites.
So I feel like that's just another thing.
If our cattle are on apple
cider vinegar for four months.
Out of the year, not to mention our daily
moves and all our other practices that,
Reduce our exposure to internal parasites.
I think that's just another
added benefit that we're getting.
Can I
quantify it?
No, cause I don't have split trials or
we haven't done a bunch of fecals, but
in general, I don't have, I don't have
a chronic problem with wormy cattle.
So
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Yeah,
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
as long as I'm not having a chronic
problem with wormy cattle, I'm happy.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: oh yeah.
I think, I've never used
apple cider vinegar.
I say that.
I have bought it some
and taken it myself some.
That stuff's pretty awful.
But
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
I'm drinking my dose right now.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: oh,
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
an ounce or two of apple
cider vinegar every day.
And I just put it in enough water where
it's so thin and I actually like it.
I prefer it.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Oh yeah I
didn't, when I was doing it, I haven't
done it in a little while, and it's
probably talking about it will cause
me to go get started back on it.
I didn't dilute mine very much I handled
it, I diluted it just a little bit,
and basically took it like a shot.
Your method is probably much better.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
Yeah I, like I said, I just thin it down
and make it, I drink it all after either
afternoon or if I have it during the day,
I'll drink it with my evening meal and I
like water.
I drink a lot of water.
We're talking about, if I put 2
tablespoons in a quart of water,
or maybe even more it's thin
and it takes the bite out of it.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Oh yeah, because
it does have a bite and I drink tons
of water and I don't know why I don't
recall myself ever drinking it like that.
And I don't know why, because
it makes perfect sense.
Just put it.
I just drank a quarter water
while we're here talking.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
Yeah,
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Yeah
Matthew, very interesting
about apple cider vinegar.
I do think it's.
It's something I haven't used but it's
been on my radar and I've thought about
it in different methods because you talk
to goat people or small ruminants and it
comes into play a lot with parasites and
people wanting to use it in that fashion.
But it is time we transition
to our famous four questions,
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cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: There's the
same four questions we ask of all of
our guests and our first question.
What is your favorite grazing grass?
Related book or resource?
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
I'm going to mention a book there's
many of them, but this is one that
I've gone back to multiple times.
And it can be a bit of a tough read,
but I found that the second time I went
through it, I got so much more out of it.
And that's Man, Cattle, and Salt.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Oh, yes.
Yeah.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
and particularly because he's
describing a lot of conditions that I
deal with when he, in that book, when
he's talking about Sauerfeld, that,
that's the range that I deal with.
That is large quantities
of low quality forage.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Oh, yeah.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
And I would encourage anybody regardless
of, what your context is to read or
listen to man cattle and felt and do
it more than once it in some areas.
It's just a little bit tough to
digest, but maybe the 2nd time
it will go ahead and absorb.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Oh, yeah.
Yeah, so many books I have a
certain set of books that I reread.
I'm a book rereader and It's
amazing to me what I take out
of a book each time I read it.
It's always something different.
It's like we were talking before
the podcast that, this podcast,
maybe it'll speak to someone,
help them take that next step.
But what it, wherever you are,
you're going to get something
that applies to you in that case.
And when I think about books,
I pull back, pull from it what
applies to me at that point.
And then when I read it
again, I'm at a new place.
And I may pull something else
from it, so I'm always amazed by
what I get from re reading a book.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
Yes, you bet.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508:
Matthew, our second question.
What is your favorite tool for the farm?
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
It depends on how you ask that.
If you say what's my favorite tool
or what tool I couldn't live without.
There might be different ones.
A tool that I could live,
there's a lot of them, but I
don't know how I would live without
a a pasture planning program that
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Oh, okay.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
lay out my paddocks.
So this is not a
commercial for Pasture Map.
That just happens to be
the program that I use.
But in, in trying to calculate
stock densities, trying to
calculate your forage inventory and.
Be able to stand there and say I have this
much grass ahead of me or this many AUDs
or grazing days ahead of me for my mob.
I couldn't do it without
pasture map or some type of
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Oh, yeah.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
pasture measuring application.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: How
long have you used Pastor Map?
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
I know it's been close to two
years, maybe a little bit more.
We resisted.
We tried a lot.
We were doing just Google
earth and the drawing, and then
we got up, we found another deal that,
it was a free version and we were
measuring and moving and we were putting
up fence and it was, it was working,
but when we finally took the plunge and
just got the subscription it changed
the way we're doing things and it
also helps us keep records so we can
go back and not just rest days for the
current grazing season, but you can go
back and say, okay, last year we grazed
like this, let's alternate or let's make
sure that we're not becoming repetitive
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Oh,
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
in the grazing plan.
And, and that's one of my biggest
theories in grazing is I call
it shuffling the dominoes.
You know, where you just get at the table.
I don't necessarily intentionally
try to do things different or go out
of order, or I don't get caught up
in, Oh, we can't graze that paddock
like that because I just mix it up.
I just
shuffle the dominoes and.
I figured that the chaos and
the disruption and that's
going to take care of itself.
I
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: yes.
Yeah.
Very good.
I have not used PastureMap.
I tried it one time and it's
been a number of years ago.
I'm not speaking to the current version.
And I found that it was tougher to
get started on it than I wanted.
I just put it by wayside.
I have thought, I've used a couple
other apps, I've used Google Sheets,
but maybe it's time I revisit PastureMap
and
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
would
encourage you to do they do have a starter
free version and we did that for a while.
We worked,
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Oh, yeah.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
free version and and I would say that
for Certainly, especially a person that
is a single operator or maybe a dual
operator, it may be perfectly fine.
One of the main reasons we went to
the subscription was because we could
have multiple users and it's so easy,
For example, when my sister's on duty
for her weekend she can see exactly where
the cows are and all she knows where
they're going to go and it's simply,
most of the time, it's simply about a.
Two or three sentence text is all we have
to send to her for her to know what to do.
And she, she's been completely
disconnected for two weeks and
she can just step right in,
move the cows for her weekend.
And that's worth a lot.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: very good.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, I can see how it would be.
I'll have
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
the ability to communicate
with others is a lot of value.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Oh, yeah.
Our third question, Matthew.
What would you tell someone
just getting started?
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
I would recommend finding someone who
is already successful at what you want
to do and If you can't have the ability
to work for them for a while, work
under someone who has got experience
and knows what they're doing and just
spend as much time as you can learning
before you start out on your own.
And if that's not the case, if
you're already in it and you, uh,
are trying to make a transition,
especially if it's with a larger group
You know, larger numbers, hire you
some consultants to come help you.
Cause it, it is a, it's very
rewarding and it's very it's been
an enjoyable experience getting on
the other side, but it can be very
painful going through the growing
pains, especially if you don't have any
leadership or some guidance, you can
make them a lot of mistakes really fast.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Yes.
Excellent advice there.
And lastly, Matthew, where can
others find out more about you?
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508: You
can find out about, we do have a website.
It is, it has nothing to do, very
little to do with the grazing subject
that we've been talking about, but
you certainly can see a little bit
about our other enterprise, and
there's a contact us form there.
It's minkyhayisforhorses.
com.
And anyone's welcome to email me.
Matthew K Minky at gmail.
com.
If anybody has any questions, you're
welcome to send me an email and I'll do
my best to respond in a timely manner.
cal_2_06-05-2024_174508: Wonderful.
Matthew, really appreciate you
coming on and sharing with us today.
squadcaster-91ab_2_06-05-2024_174508:
Thank you, Cal.
Cal: I really hope you
enjoyed today's conversation.
I know I did.
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