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A podcast about fascinating professionals, how they got to where they are and where they’re going from the lens HR, Recruitment and People Operations hosted by Martin Hauck.
Martin Hauck (01:16.438)
Hey everybody. Welcome to another episode of from a people perspective. Today we've got Sejal Patel Deswani. So she started off her educational career from what I can tell, not only going to Harvard, but going to Columbia and adding MIT to that list. So that's just impressive and wild to me right up front. She's written for HR magazine. She's got a bit of a non-traditional background when it comes to
people operations and HR. And that's why I'm really excited to chat with her and hear some stories about transferring some skills from her past life. She started off in management consulting. She founded a consulting company that eventually got acquired and became, as I understand it, the consulting arm of an entire larger consulting organization. That's Booz. And then you joined Visa as VP of digital products.
venture capital partnerships and innovation, and then joined other companies as their chief people officer or their CHRO companies like Sunrun, Interable, and now you're at deputy. And on top of all of that, no short list, you are an advisor to a few VCs, Semper Virens, and PeopleTech partners and Kindred Mind. So there's a ton of directions we can go in here. Welcome to the podcast, Sejal.
Sejal Patel Daswani (02:48.088)
Thank you so much for having me, Martin.
Martin Hauck (02:50.474)
No, no great, great to have you. So before we dive into all the nitty gritty stuff, let's just imagine you've got a zero calorie pass for the day, so to speak. What is it that you're diving into? What's what's the first thing you're snacking on? How are you making the most of it?
Sejal Patel Daswani (03:06.104)
Can you really provide this in reality, Martin? I have a sweet tooth, so I would definitely indulge in a healthy, gluten-free, grain-free tiramisu that I love.
Martin Hauck (03:09.514)
Yeah.
Martin Hauck (03:19.928)
Tirmisu. Nice. And that comes with coffee, right? You can't make Tirmisu without coffee. Yeah. Healthy amount. Okay, cool. Cool. And how about your first paid gig? What was your first job and what did you learn from it that like still holds true today?
Sejal Patel Daswani (03:26.318)
A little bit, yes.
Sejal Patel Daswani (03:39.488)
I remember my first job and my father made lots of fun for many years. I lasted one day in a retail environment and it really involved heavy, heavy inventory management. So it was end of year and heavy inventory.
Martin Hauck (03:49.496)
You
Sejal Patel Daswani (03:57.932)
And after 12 hours of nonstop inventorying, really showed me the appreciation of what it takes to earn $20. It really gave me perspective as a young teen and really helped me appreciate the value of money and time.
Martin Hauck (04:16.738)
Hmm. No, those, those initial experiences. Yeah. Similarly. So not, not necessarily in retail and doing inventory. Mind you, I've had my fair share of cycle counts in previous years, but no, that that's cool. now, and this is an interesting question, especially given where you're at. If you're not, if you weren't in HR, what, what field would you likely find yourself working in? What would you be doing?
Sejal Patel Daswani (04:43.296)
So HR really encompasses the business. So if I wasn't a business leader, I would have been an integrative medicine doctor. I had gotten into medical school out of high school. And I think that has become an increasing passion for me. I had to self-diagnose myself and heal myself. It happened to be a gluten allergy when I had my first daughter.
So I went gluten-free almost 16 years ago, which was at that time unheard of. So I'm really passionate about food as medicine. So if I wasn't in business, I would have probably been an integrative medical doctor.
Martin Hauck (05:22.968)
Interesting. I might, I might send you an email on the side. have, I'm working through some high blood pressure stuff as of late and my neighbor, she's, she's like 70 or 80 years old and she's like the neighborhood grandma. And she came over and she's like, here's like a bottle of ginger and you need to add cayenne and pepper and turmeric to it. And you need to have that instead of coffee, no more coffee.
Sejal Patel Daswani (05:26.646)
Yes.
Martin Hauck (05:48.322)
Switching from coffee to like a drink with ginger and turmeric and cayenne pepper in it has been difficult, but like I've got the readings to prove it. It's made a significant impact on me and food is a hundred percent health. So I have a million questions.
Sejal Patel Daswani (05:55.223)
Yes.
Sejal Patel Daswani (06:02.956)
Yes, yes. All those spices you mentioned are actually, you know, native Indian herbs that we use in regular cooking. So yes, so all the combination of those herbs are Alzheimer, inflammation-reducing herbs.
Martin Hauck (06:21.494)
Yeah. And so often we get caught up in the sort of like pharmaceutical solutions there when we've got, you know, the pharmacies at the grocery, so to speak, right. it's, it's a really cool way to, look at it. I imagine you've, you've spent some time like that's, that's more of like a passion than since you're not doing it, as a, as a profession, no, really interesting, but we're here.
Sejal Patel Daswani (06:44.226)
Yes, my husband teases me quite a bit that I have a website called don't eat anything.com because I'm quite contra culture. so I'm very much into whole foods, non-process, and so much of our food industry is processed. so you have to be super health conscious to an extreme to just be healthy these days.
Martin Hauck (06:50.008)
Hahaha
Martin Hauck (07:06.956)
Yeah, yeah. The one tip that I always that always stuck with me on that front was just staying on the exterior of the grocery stores like the the inside aisles and the going up and down the perimeters you want to see on the perimeter. Yeah, that's been helpful. Like it works. Yeah. So yeah, in terms of Yeah, your career and where God started and you know, outside of the
Sejal Patel Daswani (07:19.788)
Yes, stay in the perimeter.
Martin Hauck (07:35.628)
you know, the inventory work that you did very early on. Yeah, can you can you give me sort of like a high level understanding of how you would say like management consulting, like everybody knows what that is overall. But how has that helped shape your approach to executive leadership when it comes to people teams? Because that's not often shared with and it's not obvious, I don't think sometimes.
Sejal Patel Daswani (08:02.306)
Yeah, absolutely. So when I started my career out of undergraduate, got recruited into management consulting, first day was on a plane to Chicago and in front of clients. within HR as a discipline, there is such an advisory nature to the role as well as strategic thinking. You are the connector between the business strategy and the people strategy.
And what was interesting very early on that I realized in consulting.
is so often as a management consultant, when we were in a company in and out just focused on the business strategy, very often it felt like we left the clients with a very expensive slide deck. But the opportunities where we were able to go really deep and focus on the change management, the people elements, that's when you actually got to see lasting impact because change is inevitable, but it is very difficult.
and natural human emotions is to always keep status quo. So through that journey.
I was very fortunate to work with two leaders from the McKinsey Change Center and then we partnered with John Katzenbach, he's a guru on teams and work performance. And I was invited to start this consultancy called Katzenbach Partners, four of us in a small brownstone in New York City. We were serving Pfizer by day and building the company by night. And it still remains one of the most precious experiences to date. And we scaled
Sejal Patel Daswani (09:36.97)
the company to a few hundred consultants globally. And then the company was bought by Booz & Co. and today PWC's People Practice. So I do feel like those roots in strategy consulting, you just see it, know, it's culture eats strategy for breakfast. So it is really, if you aren't going to focus on the people, the culture, those elements, the best laid business strategy will not see the light of day.
Martin Hauck (10:03.67)
Hmm. Hmm. Yeah. You can't, it can't be ignored, right? Because the strategy has to be executed by people, right? I find in, in as part of the community that we've built with the people, people group, there's some folks with experience in management consulting, but for the most part, most people don't have that experience. And I think it's, you know, I've, do consulting now I do fractional consulting, but
Sejal Patel Daswani (10:10.189)
Yes.
Martin Hauck (10:32.48)
I don't have that McKinsey background or, you know, any, any of those areas. I think anytime I talk to executives and they're hiring a chief of staff or someone that they're really going to look to for sort of an advisory piece, they're always looking for that background. And so I guess my question is what, sort of advice do you have for people who haven't had that experience in the consult, in the consulting space when it, when it comes to
sort of growing their teams and growing their careers really in the people leadership space.
Sejal Patel Daswani (11:06.926)
So I think, know, Visa was my first role where I formally joined HR and HR definitely has a very strong discipline, know how that you need to build foundational skill sets on, but it's equally important to have the exposure on.
the business. So how does the business work? How does it make money? How do customers relate to the product? What is the product? Could you know, go on a sales ride, go on the sales call, really be in the mindset of revenue generating side of the business. And I think for those, you know, there are two paths. One is really just being immersed in the business and really understanding how the company fits together.
Martin Hauck (11:27.64)
Mm-hmm.
Sejal Patel Daswani (11:54.082)
how the different functions fit together, how money is made. And then the second aspect is early in careers, I always recommend for my team to do a rotation within the business. So go and spend six months in marketing, go spend six months in sales or customer area. There are lots of parallel skills from HR into some of those areas, sales enablement, marketing,
sales even. So how do you enrich your experience by doing that kind of broad set of deepening your business understanding would be key.
Martin Hauck (12:33.368)
Amazing. Now.
I guess the one thought that kind of comes to mind, if you don't mind me double clicking here, is are there any things that you've, is there anything you've seen throughout the years when you do make this recommendation that like this has the best sort of return or this is the best approach to doing that, right? Sometimes folks don't necessarily have time to spend or they're not even afforded the opportunity within an organization. Like it's awesome that you encourage your people to, but it's kind of uncommon.
If they don't have that ability to say, you know, spend a few months or even a few weeks in a department, what are sort of like some simpler ways to sort of just extract that information and become more aware of the company and the product that you're working for?
Sejal Patel Daswani (13:18.146)
I think especially in the AI world that we're in, it is so easy to get access. So again, there's so much literature that is coming out. I also think create and join learning circles. So within a cohort, I'm part of an AI HR group. whenever something new is happening in the marketplace, whenever the technology and ways of work
Martin Hauck (13:28.983)
Thank
Martin Hauck (13:33.72)
Hmm.
Sejal Patel Daswani (13:45.45)
is shifting and business models are shifting, really immerse on how is that change going to affect your functional area. So simple options. mean, there are just tons of literature.
have three children and you know the the internet and obviously the access to information has really flattened it where whether you're living in Silicon Valley or whether you're living in developing countries there's a flattening of or access to information so I definitely think simple things like reading creating learning circles joining different meetups that may be happening locally or professional organizations are easy means if you don't have the opportunity
opportunity to do a rotation in the business.
Martin Hauck (14:30.358)
Yeah, no, that makes sense. finding ways in the same, same aspect, almost like learning a company is like learning a language to a degree in the sense that yes, you can read a bunch of books on it. But if you immerse yourself in the culture, you're going to learn that language so much faster, just out of necessity and, not necessarily having folks, you know, being able to like look at Google Translate quickly or something like that. Yeah. No, that makes, that makes complete sense. In terms of
you know, HR and people ops, what would you say has been like the most challenging initiative that you've had to lead and what would you say you learned from?
Sejal Patel Daswani (15:13.166)
You know, I think management really was not something that you're taught. So I think management and parenting are very synonymous. One day you're not, and the next day you suddenly have a baby. there is no user manual. There is no, you know, the how-tos. And unless you've had or experienced great managers, and I fortunately have had a few,
Martin Hauck (15:31.352)
You
Sejal Patel Daswani (15:42.464)
it's something that you really are not taught. And so I do think that that journey is so important. So really just, and again, some of it comes through experience on, wow, that's not great, or this is what works. But I do think that that experience in...
Growing as a manager is really critical in all of our careers and it's something we should really be conscious about because I used to think like, okay, it's just common sense, but it's really not like there is a very deep reflection period. There's a very deep connection and engagement period.
And again, I am a bit nerdy, so sometimes I would be in my head. So how do you really connect? How do you really show care? And it sounds simple, but very often in the day-to-day busyness, sometimes that doesn't come through. So I think that that's a really critical lesson that I have learned that I'm very conscious about.
Martin Hauck (16:28.578)
Yeah.
Sejal Patel Daswani (16:46.572)
I think also scaling high growth companies. So I do think venture companies, which is what I was part of, there was a whole, you know, grow at any cost philosophy. And in the last, you know, for four years or so, it's been a complete pivot and it's almost like venture has transformed into almost private equity models. And so that shift has been very, very challenging as an HR leader.
Martin Hauck (16:53.975)
Hmm.
Martin Hauck (16:57.485)
Yeah
Martin Hauck (17:07.212)
Yeah.
Sejal Patel Daswani (17:13.952)
Because you're going into a company really wanting to support the employee experience. And because of the cost pressures, because everybody has overdone and has not had fiscal rigor, it becomes very difficult for HR leaders to go in and have to right size. So again, I think fundamentally, those are very challenges to experience when you go from high growth into slower growth.
Martin Hauck (17:41.847)
Mm-hmm.
Sejal Patel Daswani (17:42.534)
And it's a collective functional company decision. But very often when you overstate targets or overstate the optimism and then the reality, that gap is very difficult as an HR leader because you are left having to do a lot of the cleanup.
Martin Hauck (17:59.565)
Mm-hmm.
Martin Hauck (18:05.912)
Yeah. No, you mentioned something interesting there in terms of like the VC side and then the private equity side. And it was only until my last position where I had experience on, the private equity side or working with a company that was, you know, being assisted or invested in by a private equity firm versus the rest were VC. And that has gone through a complete 360 reckoning, like complete destruction and re rebuilding of, of,
Sejal Patel Daswani (18:31.35)
Yes.
Martin Hauck (18:35.682)
how VC firms operate and I think how private equity firms operate. I guess for maybe some of the listeners that aren't overly familiar with like private equity, because again, it's not as, especially just given the community more of them are involved with the VC side. Could you maybe just kind of like paint a picture on the differences between like VC today and private equity today and maybe what you experienced previously as well?
Sejal Patel Daswani (19:02.254)
Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, venture models have been a little bit more seed early, early stage. And so within that, you're making quite a few bets and bets on something that can go is a rocket ship or something that can be at zero. So the the kind of value profile in venture is a little bit more high risk. With private equity, it is fundamentally rooted in finding good businesses. So
Martin Hauck (19:08.919)
Mm-hmm.
Martin Hauck (19:25.89)
Mm-hmm.
Sejal Patel Daswani (19:32.16)
how the value-based good businesses where maybe growth has slowed, how do you put pieces of companies together so that you can get a better outcome or better market share. So I think fundamentally within private equity, I guess the...
perception is that there is more fiscal rigor. So there is a sense of profitability, rule of 40, know, all of those elements are very important because you want fiscal rigor. And because it's a business, you want fiscal rigor to be able to have growth, have clear plans, have clear forecasts. And there is a lot more kind of scrutiny.
Martin Hauck (20:03.202)
Mm-hmm.
Sejal Patel Daswani (20:18.703)
and rigor on making sure that the company is meeting those outcomes.
Martin Hauck (20:23.052)
Yeah, no, that's very helpful. Thank you. We chatted a bit about it, and you sort of mentioned it in terms of you've had some great leaders in the past and you were fortunate to have them. And there's by nature of just how being almost sometimes baptized in the leadership, right? You're like, I'm a great salesperson. Now I'm a sales leader. like,
sales, a great sales leader or a great salesperson doesn't necessarily translate to great sales leader every time or you replace that with any department marketing or whatever. What who are who are some important people that helped you to get to where you are today? And what would you say stands out about some of their guidance?
Sejal Patel Daswani (21:09.166)
So I think very early on the experience that I had, some of my mentors such as Nico Kanner at Incandescent, Mark Feigen, John Katzenbach, I mean, they were really seminal. And my work at Pfizer, I had Carolyn Bartelsen as well as Marla Kessler. So I think some of those early career opportunities were really quite impactful.
And I think as leaders, they were great on business, but they also were very high care. So I think that the combination of business rigor, but then also high care, made them really great leaders and leaders that I'm still very fond of and helped shape my career even today.
Martin Hauck (21:56.792)
They, they, went beyond just business and cared about you as an individual and yeah.
Sejal Patel Daswani (22:02.496)
Yes, yes. interestingly enough, one of my HR mentors is Puja Jasbal. So when I was in a business committee, we were on it together. And I asked her, hey, I'm looking to go back into the working world. I had been doing consulting and had started my own app. And
Then three weeks later, I was at Visa. these are the folks that really invested, cared, as well as supported my journey.
Martin Hauck (22:27.928)
Hahaha
Martin Hauck (22:39.084)
No, no, it's those are those are critical. It's, it's funny because some somewhere down the line, the word like I need a mentor became the thing that people say. And the thing that I tell everybody, when they do ask about mentorship, excuse me, is, is, is that it's not just one, you need multiple mentors, you need as many mentors as you as you possibly can get, or you can afford yourself. And the other thing is,
Sejal Patel Daswani (23:02.466)
Yes.
Martin Hauck (23:08.962)
There's also, and you know, if you're in a, if you're in a circumstance or at a company that's not ideal necessarily, there is mentorship through learning what you don't want to do or who you don't want to be like, I'm like, my goodness. Like I saw how this played out. I saw how that behavior, I could see it from a mile away and you know, maybe you did something about it. Maybe you didn't, but then you saw the outcome of it. And, and so the one thing it's like the list of names that you were sharing is like, you've got, there's a handful of them, right?
And oftentimes I'll talk to people and they're just like, I need a mentor. it's like, no, you need mentors, plural and at different stages. maybe, maybe the mentor that helps you right away doesn't necessarily serve you at five, 10 years down the line, but you'll always, you'll always think fondly and you know, of great mentors. if, if they supported you in some way for your journey at that time. Yeah.
Sejal Patel Daswani (23:38.616)
Yes.
Sejal Patel Daswani (24:03.828)
Absolutely, and I think you should always look for that, you know, admiration or who do you want to partner with or work with. So every career journey, even today, I'm very lucky to be part of a very kind of majority women run executive team run by Sylvia Martin Check and, know,
Even there, it's just like really getting to be with operators that are high care as well as just incredible business leaders. So I do think that, you for me, the decision to join a company always is, hey, what is the business opportunity? But then also who do I get to partner with?
Martin Hauck (24:47.756)
No. and we've talked a bit about it just at the beginning, but, know, people tech partners as a, as a really cool, organization that basically, as I understand it, it's sort of like the Y combinator, but for HR tech companies specifically, and some perverence is out of San Francisco. You're given your sort of advisory roles with them. I imagine you have a really interesting lens into what's going on in the HR tech space.
Sejal Patel Daswani (25:03.299)
Yes.
Martin Hauck (25:17.57)
curious if you can kind of shed some light on, on what you see there.
Sejal Patel Daswani (25:20.736)
Yeah, you know, so.
Sempervirens developed very early with a great thesis and decided to focus on the HR tech space. We have a wonderful chief people officer community and we get to advise and be part of seeing all the innovation that's occurring in the HR tech space. And I was reading something the other day that showed that the HR tech space has the greatest level of seed funding as a sector.
So that was quite surprising. And I was at an AI conference. So obviously, AI is the buzzword right now. And legitimately so. I was at a conference. And it is a really important evolution that we're going through.
Martin Hauck (26:06.912)
Mm-hmm.
Sejal Patel Daswani (26:14.56)
We had the internet, we had cloud, and now it's really about AI. And the processing speed of these AIs is really just compounding at a really high rate. So at this conference, a Wharton professor was just talking about the AI and innovation and how it's going to change how we work.
And, you know, it was fascinating because it was like, all of us will have kind of like six or five or six AI bots that we will be leveraging. And it'll almost be like our own little coaching community. And the, the lifespan of a skill was 30 years. Now the lifespan of, you know, the half life of a, of a skill is six years because of AI.
Martin Hauck (26:52.002)
Mm.
Martin Hauck (26:59.469)
Haha.
Sejal Patel Daswani (27:06.806)
So every six years you are fundamentally evolving very differently. So I think the biggest, the changing landscape is really about a learning culture. How can we, the ones who will thrive will be the ones who can embrace learning because the speed of learning, the speed of change is going to be so high. So I really think.
Martin Hauck (27:26.168)
Mm-hmm.
Sejal Patel Daswani (27:32.834)
For each of us, myself included, how am I going to have that learning mindset and learning agility so that I can continue to keep peace?
Martin Hauck (27:43.084)
Well, to kind of dive a little bit deeper on that, I've not asked this question yet of anyone. And I feel like it seems now obvious that I should probably ask it of everyone.
At the as an executive at the sort of people leader stage and like not at the people, you know, taking care of the people and like in the in the CPO function, how would you say that you utilize AI just for yourself as an executive? Like I imagine it's probably pretty different from sort of like the tactical use of AI, but just curious if if that if there's anything that stands out for you and how you use it.
Sejal Patel Daswani (28:25.902)
So I think all HR technology, I'm going to be doing a complete review of all our HR tech partners and turning on the AI features. So whether it is talent management tools, so whether how you do a review, something that would take one hour to write in the past can now be automated within. And again, it's you are driving the AI because it's your thought and your inputs that's driving the output.
But what would take me, say, 30 minutes or 40 minutes to write about Martin if you and I were partnering on a team can now be high-level thoughts that can then be integrated into clear, succinct feedback for Martin in a question of a few minutes. So I do think that the AI features on current HR tech stack is critical. So how we hire, how we onboard, how we
you know, performance managed and support our employees manager coaching. So I'm looking at piloting manager coaching that's going to be AI based. So that integrates our one-on-ones and our communications so that it can guide the manager on the journey. So as I mentioned, manager training is key to scale. so without managers, that whole employee experience is not right. We all hear the
the saying that people leave their managers, not the job. And so the manager is the nexus of that employee experience. How that employee experiences the day to day is going to be so important due to the manager. So how do we support our managers in the busyness of especially startups and high growth companies? How do we support our managers to be able to be good managers? And so I think AI is going to be a really powerful tool for that.
and also preventative. So a lot of the level zero, level one challenges that can be prevented, I think the AIs will really be very strong on helping managers.
Martin Hauck (30:36.578)
That's, that's really interesting perspective, just the, even on the, using it as a coach and I've, I've used it myself from that capacity. Like it starts off, it's funny because when you start using AI, you start off with what was I doing with Google first, right? Like, how do I get to this place on the map or whatever? then
the quality of the answers are so strong and then you go dive deeper and dive deeper. And then, you know, I'm using chat GPT predominantly and, it's just, it's now got this repository of information that I can ask it to call back on just like 15 different subcategories of my life. Like there's professional side, there's a personal side, there's my health side. And it's just like, give me a summary of the, and it's just bananas. And to know that most people,
Sejal Patel Daswani (31:20.482)
Yes.
Martin Hauck (31:26.828)
Most people are exploring it, not using it in the full capacity. I think, and it was really interesting to hear as well that, you know, at your level, at the executive level, you're more thinking, okay, we don't necessarily like need to reinvent the wheel when it comes to AI. There's all these great providers, these partners of ours, know, companies that we've invested hundreds of thousands of dollars in software wise, they're all using AI. How can, which one should we turn on? It just feels like, okay, well, like,
Let's turn the lights on in terms of AI in this area of the business and see what that hap, know, see what happens there. Does that improve it or not? So it's sort of like a case by case almost assessment. It sounds like, which is a really cool perspective. Thank you.
Sejal Patel Daswani (31:58.734)
Yes.
Sejal Patel Daswani (32:08.906)
Yeah, and I think, you know, one thing I realized whenever I go to these AI conferences, within a company context, everyone is so busy building that I do think that there are really two major takeaways. One is how is your product and your company going to evolve from an AI perspective? It's almost implicit and integral for you to have a robust product these days. And then second is as a company, how is every functional leader
Martin Hauck (32:25.719)
Mm-hmm.
Sejal Patel Daswani (32:38.666)
evolving how they do work leveraging the AIs.
Martin Hauck (32:42.668)
Yeah. Yeah. And, that, that becomes a difficult challenge, but it's, it's a, if, if solvable, right. The impact it'll have is, is huge. you're, you're at deputy now, you're the chief people officer at deputy. what, what drew you to, join them and what, what excites you most about working with a company that focuses on managing hourly workforces?
Sejal Patel Daswani (32:58.446)
It's...
Martin Hauck (33:11.584)
an interesting thing, you know, with a segue from from AI as well. So what what you do, what drew you to them?
Sejal Patel Daswani (33:17.784)
So our frontline workers or shift workers are essentially 80 % of our global economy. But if you think about the solutioning and tools, everything is oriented to the desk workers. So I was CHRO at a public solar company, and we had a huge frontline workforce. And I would have loved a product like DepiD at that time because
You know, the ability to do shift work would have unlocked so many applicants and so many, you know, healthier balance for our employees. So when I came across Deputy, one, I was very excited that there's a mission orientation to really help those that are kind of most in need. I mean, these are the workers that need solutions. They're tough jobs. They're in the field.
on their feet. So how do you create a better experience for 80 % of the global workforce? And we're a multi-product company, which was another element that was really exciting for me, which is how can I help and support these frontline workers for everything from hiring, onboarding, document management, team management, and workforce solutions?
So how are we a partner to businesses to help enhance this experience for frontline workers?
Martin Hauck (34:46.934)
And so you've been there for a bit now and from your lens, how do you see this technology sort of evolving to meet the changing needs? Obviously with AI disrupting a bunch, but how is deputy kind of tackling that? it's, I mean, 80 % of the global workforce that first off that's bananas. I never realized that.
Sejal Patel Daswani (35:09.256)
Yeah.
Martin Hauck (35:12.778)
in that's wild as a huge, huge market, a huge user base, essentially, right? How, is deputy sort of addressing these changes that's just constantly happening?
Sejal Patel Daswani (35:23.436)
So we are a partner to the businesses and the users, the employees. So there is a fair amount of complexity as it relates to compliance. Labor laws affecting hourly workers are becoming more complex.
and prevalent globally. So in these markets across the country, fair workweek predictive scheduling laws are putting tremendous pressures on the businesses. And so we're a partner. We're a partner that helps simplify and codify these risks. So right now, as an example, US businesses in cities with fair workweek pay more than $27 million in violations in 2022.
So we're really helping protect the businesses and reduce the risk because unknowingly, unknowingly the laws are complex. So how do we educate the business? How do we make sure that the workers are having a positive experience? And that scheduling for that frontline work, managing it, having the clarity, the documentation is really, really critical. And our HR
Martin Hauck (36:13.656)
Yeah.
Sejal Patel Daswani (36:34.334)
a solution helps businesses as well as the employees.
Martin Hauck (36:38.466)
I imagine there's a lot of customers that probably come to deputy with and their solution is like, we have this piece of paper on the wall. And then Jimmy puts his schedule in here and Susan puts her schedule there. And then if they can't work it, they WhatsApp each other. And that's, that's how that, that all works. And it's just, yeah, yeah. We have AI here, but we also have like stuff that's from the forties, fifties, twenties, whatever. It's, it's, it's a wild dichotomy.
Sejal Patel Daswani (36:46.279)
Yes, a lot.
Sejal Patel Daswani (37:07.15)
And you would be surprised at how many complex big businesses are using spreadsheets. for, yeah, so, you know, again, the increasing complexity of the landscape really requires automation. And so, you know, when you think about a lot of the HCMs, they're oriented to the desk workers. Even for me, 14,000 employees, we were hiring 1200 employees a month.
Martin Hauck (37:13.642)
Yeah.
Sejal Patel Daswani (37:36.384)
And there was no ability to be able to have that intimate experience with that frontline worker to meet their needs, listen to them, engage them, and make sure that their needs were getting met, and also support the managers to be successful in supporting the employees.
Martin Hauck (37:54.552)
That's, that's yeah. So I'm mostly a startup person, like at early stage. So when you say numbers like that, like 12,000, I thought you were going to say a year, 12, 1200, 1200 people a month. That's again, wild. so you've, you've obviously have a lot of experience with managing large, large teams, large organizations. and for, companies managing large hourly teams, what sort of
Sejal Patel Daswani (37:59.808)
Thank
Sejal Patel Daswani (38:04.494)
1200, yeah, a month.
Martin Hauck (38:22.978)
key advice would you give them in terms of building like a strong culture, supporting retention, diversity, employee satisfaction? Like what stands out to you in terms of being able to accomplish that in such a large organization?
Sejal Patel Daswani (38:38.712)
So I think it's the basic things which sound very simple, but how are we communicating? How are we offering clarity, training, clear communication? How are we appreciating our workforce? How are we making sure that there's a sense of recognition? And then how are we making sure that there are opportunities for working? think increasingly with the new workforce, there is a really high demand for flexibility. So how are we making sure
Martin Hauck (39:07.064)
Mm.
Sejal Patel Daswani (39:08.956)
that people can kind of opt in and opt out. know, if you, especially for shift work, you know, there's a perfect time for a working mother and that's probably nine to two. How do you leverage and create opportunities for some of that workforce who would be disenfranchised otherwise because they have a priority?
Martin Hauck (39:28.471)
Hmm.
Sejal Patel Daswani (39:30.826)
So again, the concept of shift work also opens up the workforce, whether it's working mothers, whether it's seniors who want flexibility, or even young millennials who may have a passion, but then have a day job. So I think that those aspects of creating the opportunities for shift work flexibility, making sure there's appreciation, clear communication, clear training, and hiring
Martin Hauck (39:46.829)
Hmm.
Sejal Patel Daswani (39:58.919)
The ability to hire a diverse workforce is key.
Martin Hauck (40:02.282)
Yeah, no, I've seen and that was part of even just for myself, right? Moving on from from case where which is the largest organization.
Sejal Patel Daswani (40:11.523)
Yes.
Martin Hauck (40:12.85)
And I was like, think fractional is the way to go for me.
Sejal Patel Daswani (40:16.61)
So many, Yes, fractional, multimodal jobs. So again, there is like this increasing, I think COVID fundamentally shifted the way we shop and the way we work. And, you know, unfortunately, I think everyone is very keen on going back to the way it was. But I don't think that you can go back fully to what it was. It has shown us that we can be productive. We can be
Martin Hauck (40:22.402)
Mm-hmm.
Martin Hauck (40:29.74)
Yep. Yeah.
Martin Hauck (40:42.498)
resistance.
Sejal Patel Daswani (40:45.91)
trusted and I think it's a really important aspect of the journey, the worker journey that you can't really go back.
Martin Hauck (40:55.914)
No, no. And the businesses haven't gone like they, some businesses want to go, you know, there's a whole discussion around work from home work from that that we don't need to have because it's been had a million times. But, at the end of the day, like people's lives have changed significantly. and so businesses have adapted to it. And so if they're changing the way they approach things, right. Then, then they're, that's going to seep into, to the market in terms of
Sejal Patel Daswani (41:03.01)
Yes.
Martin Hauck (41:24.616)
know what people are looking for as well. it makes sense. I guess we've talked a lot.
Sejal Patel Daswani (41:28.788)
And I think the debate is really around where we work. And that's really not the right question. It's how we work. So how we work, whether we're in an office and not being focused in our work or whether you're at home or a global company that's remote. I think if everybody focused on how we work, we would get into some really productive conversations on the topic.
Martin Hauck (41:33.495)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Martin Hauck (41:55.678)
Absolutely. Yeah. We're we've been asking the wrong question. Not intentionally, of course, but it opens up a new lens. As a CPO, what are some of the initiatives or strategies that you're sort of excited about that are going to help in support the growth and engagement of deputies workforce? mean, it's a product that serves, you know, it's an HR tech product to a degree. And so we've had a lot of discussion around that.
Sejal Patel Daswani (42:00.892)
Right.
Sejal Patel Daswani (42:21.122)
Yes.
Martin Hauck (42:25.56)
curious how you're bringing some of those learnings or experiences into what you're doing for deputy directly.
Sejal Patel Daswani (42:33.646)
So definitely harnessing the power of AI to make the experience far easier for our managers, really supporting our managers with training and support. Again, I think that that is critical. So there is traditional training, but how do we make sure that the managers have something when they need it?
And so I really am very passionate about AI manager coaching. I'm an advisor to Kindred Minds. so passionate about that topic. And then overall, how do we create, especially because we are a global remote first company, how do we create a culture where there's a drumbeat of connection? And so we have started a new novel concept with partners at Deputy.
And the concept is really creating almost like a unified ERG where team members come together and we are all co-building a monthly cadence of culture, community, book clubs.
and so whether you're in Sydney, Australia, whether you're in San Francisco, whether you're in the Midwest, there's a, there's a feeling of cohesiveness or whether you're in England, because our teams are spread across those geographies. How do we feel a sense of connection? How do we focus on wellness? How do we focus on cultural traditions? We'd like to share with each other. so I feel like, you know, the, training aspects, employee experience, and then a really strong feeling of connection and belonging.
are the areas that I'm most passionate about.
Martin Hauck (44:17.548)
No, no, makes, then that's the it's, it's also the fun stuff too, right? Like that's when, when you see, maybe you roll out software and you implement software that saves the company hundreds, thousands, millions of dollars. That's always fun. But then when you can look back and say, okay, when I showed up to this company, this is the, this is the vibe that I got, or this is the culture that I felt. And after making changes, you can
distinctly feel that difference. It's hard to put a metric to sometimes and I suppose you could, but it's sort of like if you can tangibly feel it, it's just unmatched, right?
Sejal Patel Daswani (44:52.771)
Thank
Yes.
Sejal Patel Daswani (45:00.13)
Yeah, and I think, know, look, obviously it's table stakes on HR technology or being fiscally rigorous. So I feel like those are the, it's like that Maya Angelou quote, it's not what you do, it's how you make people feel. And that's, think, Martin, what you're getting to is as a people officer, how are we also starting to change how people connect and feel with each other?
Martin Hauck (45:15.511)
Yeah.
Martin Hauck (45:25.516)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the feeling they have on Sunday night, right? Are they excited or, and if they're not, how do you get them excited? Right? You know, there's something to change there. Any, any final thoughts for, for the folks listening that just from yourself? This has been wonderful conversation. Thank you so much.
Sejal Patel Daswani (45:36.174)
Yes.
Sejal Patel Daswani (45:45.126)
thank you, Martin, for having me. No, I mean, look, as all business leaders, I think the fundamental thing I have realized through my journey is that as humans, we seek a sense of belonging and approval.
And so it's a universal human need. So in order for the best business leaders that I've seen have really tagged into it. And so it's how we connect with each other. That's a core element to always focus on no matter what the work, no matter what the experience, what the company. Because with that can come all other things.
Martin Hauck (46:22.264)
100%. No, really well said. Thank you, Sejal. Thank you so much. Thanks to the listeners. Yeah, for the folks that aren't members of the People People group, you can check us out at the peoplepeoplegroup.com. For folks looking for support on a fractional basis, you can reach out to myself or Monica at purpleumbrella.co. And for folks looking to learn more about deputy, check out deputy at deputy.com.
Sejal Patel Daswani (46:26.446)
Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Martin Hauck (46:49.499)
And is there any, do you want folks to reach out to you if they strike a fancy and you'd like to?
Sejal Patel Daswani (46:55.242)
Absolutely. Absolutely. I'd love to walk them through the product and see how we can help them. Absolutely.
Martin Hauck (47:01.986)
Perfect. Yeah, they can, you can find her on LinkedIn and that's, that's it for me. So until next time, may all your candidates be awesome and all your emails be read thoroughly. Thank you.
Martin Hauck (47:15.316)
Awesome. So I'm going to stop recording. Now we're done. That's Easy peasy.
Sejal Patel Daswani (47:17.462)
Okay. Awesome.