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In today's episode, we dive deep into the modern-day phenomenon of 'keeping up with the Joneses' — where social media has intensified the pressure to measure our lives against the perfectly curated images we see online. We will explore how platforms like Instagram, TikTok, and Facebook create an environment where it is easy to feel like you're falling behind, even when you are doing just fine. From influencers showcasing luxury lifestyles to friends posting highlight reels of their best moments, the pressure to keep pace has never been greater. But at what cost? And how can we break free from this constant comparison? Join us as we unpack the emotional, mental, and financial impact of this growing trend and discuss practical strategies for reclaiming your sense of self-worth in a world where everyone seems to be living their best life online.
Creators & Guests
What is The Shrink Down?
Four lifelong friends, all clinical psychologists, unpack the latest in current events, pop culture and celebrity news through the lens of psychology.
Vanessa (00:01.164)
Hello, hello, welcome back to The Shrinkdown. Thank you for listening in today. We hope you are enjoying the podcast. We just wanted to mention that if you have any topics that you would like for us to talk about, please feel free to email us at the shrinkdown, it's one word, dot podcast at gmail.com, or you can DM us via our new Instagram page at the shrinkdown, one word. Be sure to follow us. You can stay up to date on any upcoming episodes. We're also saving all of the faves that we share as well on Instagram. So check there, we'll be putting links up.
to all the things that we share. Today we're gonna be doing a deep dive into the modern day phenomenon of keeping up with the Joneses, where social media has intensified the pressure to measure our lives against the perfectly curated images we see online. So we're gonna be exploring how platforms like Instagram, TikTok and Facebook create an environment where it's really easy to feel like you're falling behind, even when you're doing just fine. So from influencers showcasing their luxurious lifestyles to friends posting highlight reels of their best moments,
it's really hard to not feel the pressure to keep up with the pace. And it's never been greater before than now, since we have all these different kind of platforms. But again, what cost is this taking on us? What toll is it taking on us? And how can we break free from this constant comparison and this constant pressure? But before we get into that, and even before we start our four minute phase, Wilhelmina wanted to share an update on the movie that we mentioned, I think it was like podcast two, so two weeks ago.
called The Substance. So go ahead, Wilhelmina, and give us your update on the movie.
Wilhelmina (01:29.0)
So my husband and I saw this, The Substance This Weekend. I will say that we both agreed it was a good movie in the sense of lots to talk about. It, I think, is a timely movie, important movie, and we will never be seeing it again. It is made to make you feel uncomfortable.
Lauren (01:50.668)
Ha ha ha!
Vanessa (01:51.592)
Hahaha!
Wilhelmina (01:57.457)
And it absolutely did that. So yes, it's Demi Moore. She's an aging fitness instructor and actress, I guess. She won an Oscar in her character. Then she takes a substance. She turns into Margaret Qualley for seven days. They each get to be each up like their own person. So the other one's just laying there while the other one's going about their day. And then basically Margaret Qualley, the younger character keeps
taking more time, which then ages Demi Moore to the point that she becomes this grotesque monster sort of thing. So by the end, I had to look this up. I guess the movie is technically called Body Horror. So it's like The Fly. Do you remember that Jeff Goldblum movie back then? Yeah, it's basically what is happening to your body.
Teri (02:44.184)
you
Lauren (02:44.861)
Lauren (02:48.95)
Mm, yeah.
Vanessa (02:49.069)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (02:54.179)
it becomes just this other thing that represents more than just what's going on in your body. So by the end, it is truly almost ridiculous. Like we were just like, wow, this is, I get the message, but it is just very clear that this director writer, I mean, she's upset. She's like, this is ridiculous what women have to go through. the men, Dennis Quaid plays this just,
Lauren (03:14.84)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (03:21.957)
revolting man and he of course is at the top of his game and in charge and he gets to be disgusting and revolting. Whereas by the end when she is what she is, it's, it is a movie meant for discussion and a movie meant to make you feel uncomfortable. And boy, it did that indeed. Demi Moore, amazing, amazing, full nudity, like full every full everything. So she just laid it all out there. I mean, it was, it was an intense movie.
Vanessa (03:43.608)
awesome.
Lauren (03:44.003)
Wow.
Teri (03:44.946)
Okay.
Vanessa (03:50.338)
So definitely worth a watch, but not a re-watch. Gotcha.
Wilhelmina (03:53.027)
Not the rewatch. Not the rewatch. And Terry, you should never see this movie. Ever. Never. Never! No. No. Mm-mm. Mm-mm.
Vanessa (03:57.112)
Thank you for the recap. All right, so let's get into our formant faves. Terry, why don't you kick us off and tell us what you're loving at the moment?
Teri (03:57.516)
Don't- don't- didn't- didn't plan- didn't plan to.
Lauren (03:57.623)
No.
Interesting.
Teri (04:13.672)
I am loving a type of bra, a brand some of you might be familiar with called True and Company or True and Co. They originally were typically available at Nordstrom's. I've always bought them at Nordstrom's, but then Target started carrying them maybe in the last couple years. They are super comfortable. They can have cups or not, all smooth, no clasps.
Vanessa (04:21.481)
I haven't heard of that.
Wilhelmina (04:21.693)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Wilhelmina (04:32.07)
Lauren (04:33.773)
Yeah.
Teri (04:44.184)
I even joke with my husband, no more clasps, I'm in the comfort era. And, a little TMI. And maybe easier for him, easier for him. And they call themselves life-changing. And what I have found myself is when I open that drawer of my dresser, it's always those. And for a while it was 50 % those, 50 % something else, a different brand. And now the last
Vanessa (04:48.103)
Hahaha!
Wilhelmina (04:48.388)
Hahaha!
Wilhelmina (04:53.509)
Never.
Lauren (04:54.691)
Yeah.
Teri (05:13.592)
couple months, it is 100 % true and co bras. That is my recommendation.
Wilhelmina (05:18.429)
Terry, is there a specific style you recommend that you like love? Okay.
Teri (05:23.254)
I don't know what they're called. I have a couple different ones. Some are thinner and strappier. Some are thicker and have probably a little bit more support because the band is thicker all the way around like the shoulder strap band and around. But yeah, I don't know what they're called.
Vanessa (05:29.272)
straps.
Vanessa (05:43.082)
Do you feel like the original ones and now the target ones are the same quality?
Teri (05:48.896)
I do think the Nordstrom ones are a little better, but those are the ones, those are the ones I grab more, but the Target ones do the trick. And definitely try them on in the store and see, yeah, what size.
Lauren (05:49.538)
Vanessa (05:51.862)
Okay, sometimes that yeah.
Wilhelmina (05:52.53)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (05:52.686)
Yeah.
Vanessa (05:57.25)
still good. Okay.
Yeah. How it
Lauren (06:02.029)
Hmm. Very cool.
Vanessa (06:05.08)
All right, well, Amina, what are you sharing with us today?
Wilhelmina (06:07.257)
Okay, well, I am loving the new Netflix show, Nobody Wants This. I text, yep, yep, it's so good. So it's Kristen Bell and Adam Brody. Adam Brody. I have loved him since the OC. mean, Seth Cohen, is there anyone cuter? So cute. So it is loosely based on Aaron Foster.
Lauren (06:13.699)
Yeah, yeah, it's good. Yeah.
Teri (06:14.038)
I'm here for it.
It's good.
Vanessa (06:24.438)
Hahaha
Wilhelmina (06:35.645)
the Foster sisters, she created this show and it's inspired by her real life romance with her husband. So Kristen Bell plays Joanne. She's basically, she does a podcast that is a lot about sex and with her sister. And then she ends up falling in love with Noah played by Adam Brody, who is a rabbi. And of course that gets complicated because he's a rabbi and she's not.
Jewish. And the chemistry these two have together is amazing. Is it the first episode that ends with a kiss, the second episode? the kiss. I mean, that kiss was great. I was watching with my husband. He was like, that was a good kiss. I'm like, yeah, it was a good kiss. And what I really like about it is that she has a scene where she talks about her biggest fear is
Lauren (07:06.297)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (07:17.868)
Yeah.
Teri (07:25.132)
you
Wilhelmina (07:35.409)
falling in love with a man and being too much for him, like being too... And it was so powerful. And I've certainly felt that because I feel like I can be a lot. And so, being seen by the right person who sees you beyond just sort of the image you put out there is pretty powerful. That's what the show is kind of about. And it does it in such a cute way, the characters.
Lauren (07:40.109)
Mm. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (08:04.862)
and it is funny and it's hot. It's good.
Lauren (08:07.575)
Yeah. That's great. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's good.
Teri (08:10.122)
It kept my attention.
Wilhelmina (08:11.613)
yes.
Vanessa (08:11.8)
You guys are all watching it. I mean, need to watch this. I guess it's one of those that I need to watch. I need to get out of my usual kind of...
Lauren (08:21.027)
Well, I read an article just this morning that said there's finally a new rom-com out there that's not a reboot or a rewatch for people. And so that was kind of the praise it was getting was that it was finally something original that's not been done before. So, yeah.
Wilhelmina (08:26.769)
Mm-hmm.
Yes! Yes.
Vanessa (08:38.584)
That's awesome. All right.
Wilhelmina (08:40.325)
And Terry's stamp of approval holds her attention.
Teri (08:42.168)
has my stamp of approval. How about you, Vanessa?
Lauren (08:42.209)
Yeah.
Vanessa (08:43.032)
What am I sharing today? So actually, so I just got back from Cartagena, Columbia on, when did I come back? was just, Saturday. No, well, I guess technically it was Sunday morning. It was late in the morning. But on my way down there, I watched a good movie and I don't usually share movies and shows because I don't watch a lot of TV or shows.
But I was on the plane and I watched a movie and it was in my genre. So like I have shared before that I really like fantasy fiction. One of my favorite movies of all time was Lord of the Rings. Yes, I'm that nerd. My husband loves the fact that he can watch like I like all the like movies all the guys like. That's just that's that's my jam. So I watched Furiosa. It's a Mad Max saga. It is so good. If you watched it, any of you?
Wilhelmina (09:26.397)
yes.
Lauren (09:31.297)
No, but I know what you're talking about.
Wilhelmina (09:31.655)
i have not but i love her
Vanessa (09:32.856)
yes. So it's Anya Taylor-Joy. She was in Queen's Gambit, which is also amazing. She was amazing. I mean, I was like rambling on to everyone in our group. was like, my gosh, you guys got to watch this when you were on the way back on the plane. And my friend's husband, he was like, that was really good. And I was like, I know. So good. So the original Mad Max was with Mel Gibson. I think that was the 80s. It was the 80s. were kids. So I remember watching that forever ago.
Lauren (09:35.831)
I love such a good show.
Wilhelmina (09:38.375)
So good.
Lauren (09:46.401)
I'm
Wilhelmina (09:56.557)
Yeah, think so.
Teri (09:56.866)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (10:01.514)
And then there was the other Mad Max that came out. I don't think it did as well.
Lauren (10:06.243)
But that wasn't that long ago.
Wilhelmina (10:06.319)
No, like four years ago? Five? Yeah.
Vanessa (10:08.702)
Yeah, like it was a couple years ago. Yeah, like I remember watching and being like, okay, like, I think I enjoyed it in the moment. But I'm telling you, I don't know if it was her, the story, her care. I mean, it was so good. And then Chris Hemsworth is in it. He's the bad guy. And he has pressed like you can't tell it's him because they they put like the prosthesis on him. I think I think they did his nose. They did something. It doesn't look like him. I only recognized him eventually because I was like, my God, I know that voice.
Lauren (10:09.569)
Yeah. Yeah.
Teri (10:22.668)
Mm.
Wilhelmina (10:22.872)
Ooh.
Lauren (10:24.088)
interesting.
yeah.
Lauren (10:36.002)
Right.
Vanessa (10:36.022)
And then his wife, Elsa Pataki is in the very beginning. She has like a small, very small scene in it at the very, very beginning of movie. And I was like, my gosh, that then I put two and two together. But it's just a great action. Like if you like action movie, obviously this is like one of those dystopian type of movies, which I also really liked that genre. It was just such a good movie. It was well done. The effects are really good. Terry, you might not like it because there is some gore obviously. Like it shows you how like in the original you meet her and she.
Wilhelmina (10:38.289)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (10:45.848)
Yeah.
Lauren (10:51.906)
Yeah.
Vanessa (11:03.724)
doesn't have, she has like a half robotic arm. So you see how that happened in this and it's pretty gory, but there's a lot of gore into it, but it's such a good movie and her character development is amazing. It starts off with her as a kid. So you meet her as like a child. It's so good. And it's just like, so like, there's just, even though it's like this action movie and it's like this dystopian, it's like, there's this like, you know, you see this like mother daughter bond. You see like,
Lauren (11:08.898)
Wilhelmina (11:16.837)
Mm-hmm. I love that.
Lauren (11:19.49)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (11:30.357)
Mm.
Vanessa (11:31.414)
you know, it's got like that good trope of like you're made family. Even though, that's like, there's so much bad stuff going on in this movie, like bad people, like you see all these good people and how they, you know, and she is this one of these like morally gray characters, like she's got this good to her and she's got this like, you know, obviously she's done all these things too. So it's just such a good movie. It was good. It was good. So definitely that's, that's my, my fave that I'm sharing today is Furiosa, a Mad Max saga.
Lauren (11:35.021)
Yeah.
Vanessa (12:00.694)
It was really good.
Wilhelmina (12:00.869)
Now, you said you had seen the other movies. Now, can you see this one? I saw the newer one that came out whenever it came out a couple of years ago, but do I, I don't remember that much. Do I need to? Can I just jump in? Okay.
Vanessa (12:13.346)
No, I think you can just jump in. I've seen the other two, but I would never have been like, those are my favorite, right? I don't think you need to. Because this is actually a prequel, right? This is one of those movies where it's like pre. This is how she became who she is. You meet her in the other movies as an adult. So this is how she became Furiosa. So I don't think you need to. And in fact, I was like, I think I want to go back and watch the other ones now that I've seen this. And they did leave it.
Lauren (12:19.523)
They are all separate stories. Yeah. yeah.
Vanessa (12:39.618)
kind of that very last scene, you could totally see that there could be like another one coming because it ends with this like little scene where you're like, it could just keep going. So that, it was really good. And I don't watch a lot of movies, I don't watch a lot of TV, I read a ton. So like for me to be like, watch this, like, it has to be really good. So if you're looking for a movie that you're, that you could probably like your husband will like to watch too, I would say this is it. This is a good one.
Lauren (12:56.791)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (12:59.271)
I love it.
Lauren (12:59.929)
Good, right?
Wilhelmina (13:05.401)
Is this the Charlize Theron character? Okay, okay.
Vanessa (13:08.182)
Yes, yes, that's who she is. Yeah, but I'm telling you, mean, Anya, she's, she's... That's what I'm saying. I don't even know if it's the storyline or her because it's just so good. And they did some kind of like effect, like in the beginning, it's clearly not her, but at some point it's her face, on like a clearly like a young preteen body. I don't know how they do it with all the effects, but it, it, it's...
Wilhelmina (13:13.631)
I will watch anything she's in. She's so good. He's so good.
Vanessa (13:31.36)
it's so good the effects that it doesn't look weird. Like, you know how sometimes you're like looking at things and you're like, okay, this is weird. Like, I know that's not what you look like, but they did such a good job that it looks like her like as a preteen. So I don't know if it's like they did something to her body or if it's like if they changed the face and it's some kit. I don't know how they did it, but it looks believable. And like I said, you see her coat, she comes into the beginning of the movie, she's a kid. She's probably like, I would say like maybe eight or nine in the beginning. And then you see her become...
Wilhelmina (13:36.605)
That's CGI.
Lauren (13:37.869)
Yeah.
Vanessa (13:59.384)
I would say at the end, she's a young adult. She's probably 18 is probably what I gauge. So you see her across this span of time, and you see her actually growing up. So it's just really good. It's good. Yeah, this is a good one. So you'll have to watch it and tell me what you think, because you're the movie buff. So I'm telling you. So I was talking about this with my friend's husband. He's like, I can't believe this movie hasn't gotten more hype. He's like, it's so good. I was like, I completely agree. So that's my share for today.
Wilhelmina (14:11.023)
I love a good origin story.
Wilhelmina (14:16.207)
I will. I will. I will.
Vanessa (14:27.928)
Lauren, what are you sharing and what are you loving?
Lauren (14:30.713)
my Hoka running shoes. You guys, so I know, I know Terry, you're a runner, but I mean, we all work out and are active. I went, so I just recently got my third pair, which is what made me think like, geez, I'm like, this is really consistent that I'm sticking with these. I was first recommended them by the orthopedic surgeon that did a foot surgery for me a couple of years ago. If you guys remember that.
Wilhelmina (14:33.213)
yes, yes, yes.
Vanessa (14:52.6)
No, that's right. I remember that. Yeah. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (14:53.329)
I remember that.
Lauren (14:54.553)
as just really good for people that need that kind of like extra support, but still want to be runners and be able to have like full motion in their foot. And now buying my third pair recently, I realized like these are actually really, really good. are, I think they look a little orthopedic. So I think they throw people off a little bit because they are super thick. But if anybody wants a really good running, walking, cross training type shoe,
Teri (14:54.647)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (15:22.2)
I would highly recommend the Hocus because, yeah, they just, keep away the foot pain, which is always a really good thing. Yeah. My gosh, I love them. And they're getting better at colors and things like that. They're getting a little cuter. Not that I really care about that piece for my workout, you know, but it's nice. I've got a cute little baby blue color. So, no, but they're excellent. If anybody's looking to try a different type of shoe than they normally would, I would highly recommend the Hocus and they last a long time too.
Vanessa (15:29.282)
It is.
Wilhelmina (15:29.403)
and they're really light.
Vanessa (15:38.444)
But it always helps.
Wilhelmina (15:52.945)
And they do have cute colors. I got a pair last year and I got like fuchsia. So there you go.
Lauren (15:57.303)
Yeah, they're getting there. Yeah, less orthopedic, more cute. So yeah, that's that.
Vanessa (16:05.854)
All right. So now that we've shared our phase, we're going to get into today's topic. We have had actually many chats about this topic in the past in lots of different kind of contexts. But what brought this topic to the forefront today was an article that came out a few weeks ago about a socialite that actually committed suicide due to extreme financial debt. At least that's what the assumption is based on a note that this person left. This is obviously an extreme example of how social pressures can impact someone.
I think this is a good example. It was not until this person's death that it came to light, reportedly even to their spouse, that they were millions of dollars in debt. And despite this, continue to live this lifestyle. And it sounded like there was this hope that this person had that they would make some deal that would get them out of this hole. And I think it was like $32 million. I can't even fathom how that happens. Yeah, it's a huge amount.
Lauren (16:56.409)
was a huge amount.
Vanessa (17:01.196)
And then recently there was another article that came out about this person's spouse. And now the spouse is being sued by several different companies that they had owed money to. So we wanted to talk today about how this presents itself. The idea of keeping up with the Joneses is not new. This is not a new concept. I can remember in my own life exactly when I became aware of the fact that there was people out there.
Lauren (17:19.831)
Right. Mm-mm.
Vanessa (17:28.618)
not just famous people, right? Like we've always known there's famous people like the rich and the famous, right? But I can tell you exactly the time in my life when I realized like, people like, I, you know, I grew up in a middle-class family and my parents worked, you know, I ended up going to a public high school in a very prominent well-off suburb of Chicago. And most of the people who went to that high school lived in that particular suburb.
Lauren (17:30.893)
Yeah, sure.
Vanessa (17:58.002)
and all went to middle school together and then fed into this high school. And then there were other districts, so other kind of neighboring suburbs, one of which I lived in, which were not as kind of affluent, that fed into it for high school. So not middle school, but for high school. And I remember my first day of school there. And we all kind of knew that this was the case, but I'm walking through.
parking lot and my cousin, my older cousin went to school and he had this like little hoopty that he used to drive us to school and these kids are all driving like BMWs and Mercedes and I remember being like, okay there's this other life that I did not know existed right? Like I grew up driving, writing the CTA, the Chicago Transit Authority to school, but I think that this has been exacerbated completely by social media right? So Instagram, TikTok, Facebook,
Lauren (18:32.609)
Yeah.
Lauren (18:47.733)
Absolutely. Yep. Yep.
Vanessa (18:51.35)
So I thought it would be good to start off with, you know, asking a question to everyone here and I myself will answer this. So how do you feel like you are most impacted by this? Like this is, thought it was a good way to start it. And I know for me personally, and again, it can be anything from the things you see people are wearing, the way that they keep their lives, the vacations they go on, you know, well-behaved children all the time, right? So like it can really be any facet. So for me, I think the biggest one is like,
Teri (19:01.556)
Hmm.
Wilhelmina (19:14.823)
Mm.
Vanessa (19:20.672)
the buying things. Like I have this like, I mean, I can't tell you my husband jokes around. He's like, my gosh, there's Amazon again at the house. I'm like, I know. And it's like, I feel like that's the biggest way that I'm impacted is like seeing things, you know, and being like, I think I need that too, you know? And that's just like one piece of this. Like we could have a probably a whole podcast about like buying stuff you don't need, but like just seeing it, right? That I would say for me is my biggest one. Like I don't really care too much about some of the other stuff that I see people doing.
Lauren (19:40.173)
Right?
Wilhelmina (19:42.909)
Accurate, accurate.
Vanessa (19:49.42)
But for me, I think the way that I kind of get sucked into this is like the buying things, you know, that's my thing. So how about you guys? What do you guys feel like is the way that it impacts you the most?
Teri (20:01.154)
For me, it's home organization, which dovetails with buying of things, needing to acquire racks and shelves and organizational bins. the big, you know, it's so curated, social media, everything's very curated. It seems to me that
Vanessa (20:04.354)
Okay.
Lauren (20:04.599)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (20:05.394)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (20:14.183)
bins.
Lauren (20:15.202)
Hmm?
Wilhelmina (20:21.778)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (20:22.211)
Right.
Teri (20:27.99)
The Keeping Up with the Joneses with regard to home decor and organization has reached a fever pitch. And for me personally, it's the organization. I think my kitchen cabinets are organized, but then I see something on Instagram and I think, but they're not organized like that. Maybe I need to regroup and then your eyes start, become desensitized to your house. And then sometimes you seem to look at it with fresh eyes.
Wilhelmina (20:32.039)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes.
Lauren (20:41.549)
Right, right.
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Vanessa (20:47.127)
Right.
Wilhelmina (20:47.965)
Mm-hmm.
Teri (20:57.952)
and you come in and you look at your closet or your kid's bedroom and you think, is this how this looks? And it's almost like you had blinders on and this needs to be organized differently. This could look so different. And for me personally, I think that is heavily influenced by what I am seeing with regard to home organization.
Wilhelmina (21:20.369)
Yeah, yeah. I think that I would go right along with that. I was actually gonna say home, I guess home decor and how my house looks. And it was something that I just sort of always thought I had my own style, thought it was whatever. And then it was definitely when we moved into our house now and into the area we are now.
where I was going into these other houses and I was like, whoa.
What the heck? my house does not look like this. And then I started looking around. I started buying things. I was like, OK, now this room looks better. This room looks better. But then I realized that never goes away. Like, even when you're like, OK, now this is great, then you go into another house and you see something else or you see something online and you're like, but this is the new color or this is the new this. And it's never.
Lauren (21:59.694)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (22:10.007)
Right.
Vanessa (22:11.127)
Right.
Wilhelmina (22:22.833)
And then I realized, you have to do all of this for yourself and you have to like your house and you have to live in your house. And anyone that comes in my house and is like, this doesn't look whatever. I guess I just have to be okay with that, but that's for sure. Like the fresh eyes thing when I know I have people come over, depending on who they are, I will be looking at my house differently. Terry, you come over. I'm like, that's good. Yeah.
Teri (22:48.524)
Same.
Vanessa (22:49.494)
I think that's a sign of, but isn't that a sign of like who your friends really are? Cause you know that like your true friends could give two shits if your house, how your house looks like, right? That's not why they like you. They like you because you're who you are, right? But I, and I think, cause you see on social media like all the time, it's like, it's fall now. Like now I'm going to change the whole decor. I'm like, really? Cause I've had the same pillows on my couch for the last two years. But like I feel, yeah, you get sucked into it. like, do I need to do that? Like,
Wilhelmina (22:52.539)
Right, it is. Right.
Lauren (22:53.273)
Right.
Right? Yep.
Teri (22:57.185)
Exactly.
Wilhelmina (23:00.612)
Yes.
Wilhelmina (23:06.106)
yeah.
Lauren (23:08.193)
Right. Right.
Lauren (23:13.873)
Right. There's a false pressure. Yes.
Teri (23:14.221)
Yes.
Wilhelmina (23:14.269)
You
Vanessa (23:18.198)
Yes, like, wait, it's fall. I got to change my decor, right? And like, yes, of course, like you can put up your Halloween decor. Right.
Wilhelmina (23:22.341)
in every room of the house.
Lauren (23:24.707)
Right. Well, and you get served that, that, you know, like it'll say right now I have been served some different, you know, not ads, even people that I follow that trust me, after this conversation, you start to think like, maybe I should hide those stories, those people, right? But you get right now they're saying you better buy this Christmas, you know, this viral Christmas thing, because it's going to be out of stock. It's out of stock by November. It's out of stock by October. It's like, really? Right. So definitely the, the
Teri (23:25.452)
Hmm.
Lauren (23:54.681)
home presentation piece is a big one. The one that I was thinking of, I mean, I think the consumerism piece to your point, Vanessa, and how that goes in from like things like clothing and products and things like that, but also into our home and organization, as you guys were all saying, the one that I was thinking of related to my kids is the keeping up with the Joneses with regard to youth activities and sports. I mean,
Wilhelmina (24:17.469)
yes. that could be our own topic. mean, good Lord.
Teri (24:18.328)
that's a big one.
Vanessa (24:22.434)
you
Lauren (24:23.167)
for sure. And I'm sure there will be an appropriate jumping off board for another full podcast, full episode on it. But it is, it's something that, you know, it's really interesting. We, my husband and I are sort of focused right now on figuring out and helping our kids and supporting them and figuring out like doing one thing that you love, right? Outside of school, right? School is the job. That's, you know, where our primary focus is, but we also want them to kind of broaden their scope of activities and be able to enjoy something outside of school. But
Wilhelmina (24:42.887)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (24:43.042)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (24:53.321)
even doing that one thing and feeling like you're not doing enough because everybody else is doing two or three things or within that one thing are you you know are you doing these extra little things or getting all the newest technology and things for your child's sports it's kind of crazy and it brings up all of those keeping up with the Jones's feelings that you can really recognize I think either before or after you buy the product on social media that that's what's happening
Wilhelmina (25:13.735)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Lauren (25:21.315)
But it's a little bit harder when it's happening in your day-to-day as well. So it's kind of that pressure of both.
Wilhelmina (25:28.493)
Absolutely. Do you have... Sorry, Terry, you go.
Teri (25:30.005)
Is it?
I was gonna say there, your child wants to play basketball, for example. There's three travel leagues, two park district options. In addition to that, camps, private training. And you land as a parent on, and you're looking at your partner, my nine-year-old says he wants to play basketball. What are we supposed to do? Are we doing the right one? What if...
Lauren (25:36.714)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
my God. Yeah. Private training.
Wilhelmina (25:40.763)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (25:45.238)
Right.
Wilhelmina (25:56.739)
I'm
Lauren (25:56.801)
Right?
Lauren (26:01.251)
Right?
Teri (26:02.262)
I think that one's okay, but my friend told me about the other one and I heard what they're doing and that sounds like my kid would like that one better. How do you make the decision? It's decision fatigue, it's overwhelming, you don't know if you're making the right decision, there's no benchmarks to help guide that decision. It truly is you and your partner trying to work out based on your observations and chatting with your kid who's also uninformed, what your child needs.
Vanessa (26:06.402)
Yeah.
Lauren (26:09.677)
Right?
Wilhelmina (26:12.466)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (26:13.945)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (26:26.657)
and what your child needs. Right, right. Right, and I think, go ahead.
Vanessa (26:27.916)
Right. And all of this has, go ahead. I was going to say, I think the hard part about all of this is that it's how it's impacting you, Like financially, right? You're dishing out for the thing that you think you need, for the lesson, right? I need to get the private lesson, whatever it is, and then how it makes you feel too, right? That's the other negative part about it.
Wilhelmina (26:38.908)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (26:44.572)
yeah!
Vanessa (26:49.476)
Like I'm feeling, this is making me feel anxious. This is making me feel depressed. And obviously there's different levels of how this impacts you, but that certainly can happen. That financial impact, that social emotional impact, and that's where the negative part comes in. If it was just that, like, I bought this, whatever, that's one thing, but it's like, you're spending all this money, you're feeling a certain way.
Lauren (27:04.163)
Right.
Wilhelmina (27:11.249)
having to put it somewhere if you bought a thing or have to carve out the time in a schedule you probably don't have, yes, you don't have the time for. know, Brene Brown, I saw her being interviewed a while back and she was talking about how you make those decisions. And she said, in my family, we are a family focused family, meaning we make decisions based on all of the family's needs. So you have parent focused families.
Lauren (27:14.169)
Staring you in the face. Yep.
Wilhelmina (27:41.351)
kid-focused families and family-focused families. So she said, we tell our kids they can do one sport because anything more than that will pull away from the family and the family's needs because my husband works, know, Brene, Brene, of course, works. And she said, we have to take all of our needs into account. And I love that bar as which family are you and where do you put your needs and then
Lauren (27:42.551)
Yep. Yep.
Lauren (27:59.982)
Yes.
Lauren (28:04.685)
Yeah. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (28:10.181)
making decisions based on those needs.
Lauren (28:12.407)
Well, and that one activity per child nowadays looks very different than it used to. And I do think while the Keeping Up With The Joneses thing isn't new, there are a lot, and I think Vanessa or Terry said earlier, it's the awareness, it's right in our face, right? Whether it's about decision-making for our kids and that decision fatigue or decision-making for ourselves and the consumerism that, you
Wilhelmina (28:15.733)
yeah.
Wilhelmina (28:18.968)
Absolutely.
Teri (28:21.122)
Yes.
Vanessa (28:29.985)
Right. Yeah.
Lauren (28:36.831)
impacts us from like the products and things that we're buying. It's just right there. And it's so hard, even if you are saying, and Wilhelmina, I think you make an excellent point, and we try to follow this as a family of, are a family focused family. It's still, it's really challenging. You feel those pressures all around us of how to make the right choices for yourself, your home, your family, right?
Vanessa (28:50.413)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (29:04.417)
I was looking up an article and Vanessa, you had said it does, it's linked to depression and lower self-esteem. But the reason that it continues is because it gives us that initial increase in self-esteem. Yep. It's like that little tiny temporary dopamine kick, right? Yeah. my God. So exciting. This is going to change my life, right? Right? Yeah. And then it's gone.
Vanessa (29:09.868)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (29:17.056)
Just like screen time.
Yeah, don't you feel good when UPS shows up at your front door and like you're like, I don't even remember what I bought.
Wilhelmina (29:25.478)
Love it.
Vanessa (29:28.898)
you
Teri (29:29.688)
guys.
Vanessa (29:31.443)
you
Lauren (29:32.641)
And they said also that credit card debt globally is at its highest from this type of kind of behavior, right?
Wilhelmina (29:32.774)
you
Vanessa (29:37.58)
Yes. Yeah, I was actually looking up all of debt. I didn't think it was that high, to be honest. I thought it was going to be much more, just the average debt per American. But this included mortgage debt, student loan, credit card, auto loan. But what I did read and what I thought was the interesting part about it wasn't even actually the number, except that the trend right now is reflecting a growing reliance on debt. That to me was the uh-oh piece was that
Teri (29:38.344)
I believe that. I believe that.
Lauren (29:47.491)
Yeah.
Lauren (29:51.736)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (30:03.431)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Lauren (30:03.457)
Yes. Yes.
Vanessa (30:06.69)
forget the number, the reality is right now we're showing trending that we're using more and more credit, right? We're more and more debt. So if you're using a credit card, you're putting yourself in debt. And so that is the scary piece. It's like, where is this going? Because I don't think we've actually even hit the height of what could happen.
Wilhelmina (30:11.997)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (30:12.119)
Yeah, yeah.
Teri (30:12.696)
Hmm.
Lauren (30:25.219)
No, think you're probably right.
Teri (30:25.656)
This makes me all think of the phenomenon or concept of arrival fallacy or the arrival fallacy where you feel it's a social psychology phenomenon where once I arrive at said destination, whether that is home decor, dining room is finished, kids have completed two rounds of travel, whatever, how I look, fill in the blank.
Lauren (30:37.827)
and I get here and then here. Yep.
Vanessa (30:39.82)
Mm.
Lauren (30:51.117)
Yep. Yeah.
Vanessa (30:51.192)
how I
Wilhelmina (30:52.625)
Yep. Yep.
Teri (30:54.782)
Once I finish college, once I finish graduate school, once I'm married, once I have a kid, once I have two kids, once I move to that neighborhood, once I get that house, once my, once I, once I arrive, whatever that destination is, I will feel content, settled. Some people probably tell themselves they'll feel happy. And it is a fallacy by definition. And a lot of people, all of us included,
Lauren (30:59.737)
All right, yep.
Wilhelmina (31:02.511)
Once I have the practice, once I...
Vanessa (31:02.828)
Yeah.
Lauren (31:04.727)
Yep. Yep.
Vanessa (31:15.16)
Yeah.
Teri (31:22.296)
That is how the human brain operates and is designed to work, abide to that and fall under that. And I think that social media again has just amplified that and our availability to see, for example, Wilhelmina, you not only are able to see your good friends homes and your neighbors homes in your community, you are able to see into a hundred people's homes within 10 minutes.
Lauren (31:27.64)
Yeah.
Lauren (31:47.617)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (31:47.793)
Yes. Yes.
Teri (31:50.656)
in the device in your hand. And that makes it really challenging. so determining what arrival looks like for you, knowing that you're not gonna feel more content, Emotions are like the weather, they're always gonna change. So I think that's a big piece when I think of all this is that arrival fallacy.
Lauren (32:00.407)
Yeah. Yep. Yep.
Lauren (32:07.415)
Well, and when I was looking at some of the research on this, I mean, the answer is really simple. It's as simple as it is hard, right? Like we have to do the hard thing, which is stop looking outside, right? And look inside. But there's a whole bunch of research that shows that just being appreciative and grateful for the things that we already have. And so they talk about doing your, you know, like a gratitude exercise every day. If like you're gonna, if you're gonna actively pull yourself away from this being, this consuming your life.
Wilhelmina (32:18.715)
Yep. Yep.
Wilhelmina (32:24.817)
Yes, I was gonna say grateful.
Lauren (32:36.781)
to really just when you pull yourself away from it to just look at like, what does my life look like right now and what am I really grateful for right now?
Vanessa (32:43.394)
Yeah, being able to find that thing. And sometimes it's hard. Like when you're having a shit ass day, you got to dig real deep sometimes. And sometimes it has to be something so like, just like on the outside, right? Like I am healthy and I have two legs and I can walk, right? Like sometimes you just have to go that basic in your life, right? Because it's just like, it's hard. Like when you're, you know, when...
Wilhelmina (32:47.933)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (32:47.991)
Right.
Right.
Lauren (32:54.904)
Yeah.
Lauren (32:58.625)
Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Vanessa (33:04.79)
when the shit storm, you're in middle of a shit storm, right? Like it's hard sometimes to be like, cause everything feels like it's wrong. But if you can just take a step back and be like, okay, there's something that I can find that's happening in my life. You know, a person myself is good. It's just a good way to pull yourself out of that, you know, negative head space, basically.
Lauren (33:06.925)
Yep.
Lauren (33:15.565)
That's good. Yeah. Yeah.
Lauren (33:24.353)
Yeah. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (33:25.371)
And I do this with my patients a lot when we talk about gratitude, because I'll mention, you know, write down some things that you're grateful for. And they kind of roll their eyes. I'm like, I know, I know. But I explain that when you are really looking at what you're grateful for, you have to be very specific. So if you're writing these things down, don't just say, my house, my kids, my pet. Say, I am grateful that today my husband
unloaded the dishwasher. That was awesome. I am grateful that I had a warm cup of coffee this morning. I am grateful that the weather be very specific because that will actually have you be practicing that in your head and you'll start to notice that throughout the day. If the more you practice it, you are starting to record in the moment, those gratitudes. So being yes.
Vanessa (34:21.976)
You're building positive bridges with more, yeah.
Wilhelmina (34:24.06)
Yes.
Lauren (34:24.537)
Right.
Teri (34:25.192)
That reminds me of the idea of framing situations in everyday life, even simple tasks, even things that you felt like you were dreading and framing it as I get to instead of I have to. Yes, I get to pick up my kids from school. I get to take them to practice right after. I get to have them take a shower. It also makes me think of the phrase pray for what you already have.
Lauren (34:37.163)
I get to.
Wilhelmina (34:37.329)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (34:37.526)
Right. It's that positive reframe. Yeah.
Lauren (34:42.859)
Yes. Right. Right. Right.
Vanessa (34:45.012)
And that is hard to do. Yeah.
Lauren (34:49.753)
Right?
Vanessa (34:52.844)
Right. Yeah. Yeah.
Lauren (34:52.909)
Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (34:53.647)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I get to do bedtime. I will just keep saying it. I will keep saying it and hope it makes it feel better.
Teri (34:54.465)
which I like.
Vanessa (34:58.867)
laughs
Lauren (34:59.72)
Right.
Vanessa (35:02.36)
I get to write reports.
Teri (35:03.979)
Yes. ooh, ooh, that's a tough one. are a tough one.
Lauren (35:04.818)
But we all know it works, right? I mean, I think that I can safely say that we all try really hard to practice what we preach. And it does induce rolling of the eyes, Wilhelmina. Every time I say this to a client, they kind of look at you like, my God, I know. But yes, yes.
Wilhelmina (35:22.928)
It does every time.
yeah, I know.
Vanessa (35:27.394)
But mean, don't we roll our eyes at ourselves when we do this? Even when I say it to myself, I have been saying this mantra out loud and my daughter, Everly, is like, what are you doing? And I'm like, I can do hard things. I can do hard things. I just walk around the house when I'm having a shitty day and I'm like, I can do hard things. can do hard things. What are you talking about? I'm being my own cheerleader here. I'm trying to stay positive. I can do hard things, because you can.
Teri (35:31.458)
Yes.
Wilhelmina (35:31.687)
We do.
Lauren (35:33.591)
Yeah. Yeah.
Lauren (35:40.705)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Teri (35:47.192)
Yes.
Lauren (35:51.757)
Yeah.
Teri (35:55.404)
And that's a twofer because you're modeling for your daughter and you're providing that for yourself. It's a twofer.
Wilhelmina (35:58.459)
Yes.
Vanessa (35:58.668)
That's true. Exactly. Look at me being super mom. But I think people forget that what they're seeing on social media and even even like in our daily lives. So like we know social media is like, you know, they're posting their best snippet. They're posting their best photo. But even in our daily lives, like, you know, you know, my husband and I, we just we have one child. And so, you know, we both do well. We're fortunate that
Lauren (35:58.711)
Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Teri (36:05.612)
you
Lauren (36:17.453)
Yeah, of course.
Vanessa (36:26.288)
We can send her to a really nice private school. There's definitely families there who are way more better off than we are, well off. But my husband said something to me one day and I was like, that's such a good point. And he's a finance guy, so he would be the one. He was like, that person driving that nice car, have that nice home, that nice car, he's like, you have no idea how much debt they could be in.
Lauren (36:49.751)
Right, absolutely, absolutely.
Vanessa (36:50.424)
And we just assume, if you're driving this fancy car and you have this big house, that you're like, my gosh, you must be so well off. You must be so perfect, right? And that's not the case. So many people are in debt because they want to look a certain way. Like the article that I mentioned, this guy obviously was wanting to live a very specific type of lifestyle to get yourself $32 million in debt, right? And obviously, that's not the norm. But people could still be in debt to some other degree, right?
Wilhelmina (36:55.953)
Your life is perfect.
Lauren (37:11.182)
Yeah.
Vanessa (37:20.009)
And we wouldn't know it because we just assume, well, you if you're driving that, that's your house, must have that, right?
Teri (37:26.264)
you had the cash to pay for it. My mom's a retired mortgage risk analyst and she says the exact same thing. think anyone who works in the finance realm knows that they see it so frequently on a regular basis. And I think you're right. You just never know. People aren't buying their new Tesla with cash, full cash, right? Most people aren't, but our brain goes, well, they probably wouldn't have bought that unless they could afford to.
Vanessa (37:36.087)
Yeah.
Vanessa (37:47.53)
Most people, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Lauren (37:48.141)
Right. Right.
Vanessa (37:53.674)
Exactly, right. That's the financially responsible people who say that.
Teri (37:55.17)
That's not the case. Right.
Lauren (37:56.749)
Well, and even equating financial wealth, right? Financial with happiness, life satisfaction, all of those things. It's like they can have all of those things and that we have no idea what goes on behind closed doors as this article points out, right? But I think we've all seen those cases in our lives as well as everything can look really white picket fence, picture perfect. But everybody's got their stuff, right? So it's figuring out like,
Wilhelmina (38:04.156)
Yeah, which.
Teri (38:04.79)
Yes.
Vanessa (38:04.79)
Yes, that's you. That's the real kicker there.
Vanessa (38:10.658)
Right. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (38:24.508)
Yeah.
Vanessa (38:24.628)
Absolutely.
Lauren (38:26.531)
How do I pull myself away from that keeping up with the Joneses effect and really make sure it's like what I need, what my spouse needs, what my family needs, what my family and friends need on a larger level, right? And not get caught up in that phenomenon. And it's hard.
Vanessa (38:43.938)
Yeah, I think, you we've talked about social media in our last, you know, podcast and, know, about limiting that just because of the negative effects kind of just in general. But I think that applies to this as well, you know, in the sense that if you're feeling like, you know, I'm overspending on things or I'm unhappy because I keep looking at these things, then really the answer is, which is hard, right, is to not look at those things, limit or limiting it at least to, you know, certain amount. Or if you know, like, I know there's certain, like, you know, influencers that I follow who are really good at being like,
Lauren (38:51.224)
Yeah.
Lauren (38:57.901)
Yeah.
Lauren (39:05.303)
Right. Right.
Vanessa (39:13.75)
you probably don't need this shit, you know, so like don't buy, right? Like they're just really good at that and others I think are less so. And so, you know, maybe choosing the people that you're following that you feel are like not pushing things on you who are genuinely like, you know, a friend just kind of like, hey, if you're looking for something in this, you know, like you're looking for a new suitcase, here's one that I would recommend sort of thing rather than feeling like it's just like push, push, push, push, push. So.
Teri (39:26.04)
Hmm.
Lauren (39:33.379)
Yep. Yeah.
Vanessa (39:37.996)
you limiting or just taking a break. Like, Terry, you mentioned, and you've told us a bunch of times that you just like take these breaks from social media, you know, and if it's your inner circle or like the people you're around, right, like you can't necessarily like move your home if that's the kind of neighborhood you live in, whatever. But like, certainly, like if you're around people who are kind of, I'm going to use the word toxic, right? Like, and you're feeling like this is something that, you know, they're...
Lauren (39:43.907)
Yeah.
Lauren (40:00.216)
Yeah.
Vanessa (40:03.37)
into or you're feeling a certain way, then maybe that's time to kind of reassess, you know, who you're hanging out these people, right? Or again, limiting because like in some situations, you can't totally remove yourself, right? Like, but you can at least say like, you know what, I think I'm going to limit my my time with this person or these people and really focus on spending my time with people that make me feel good, right? That make me
Lauren (40:08.237)
Like, why am I spending my time with these people? Right.
Wilhelmina (40:09.947)
Yes, yes.
Lauren (40:13.389)
Yep. All right.
Wilhelmina (40:25.297)
Yeah, that fill my cup.
Lauren (40:25.837)
Yeah. Yep. Yep.
Vanessa (40:27.106)
that fill my cup that I feel like I relate to, right? Like I don't feel like I have to be like, look at this or, you know, sort of thing. And we all know people like that, right? You can tell, can from a mile away, you know, it's like, so yeah, just reassessing, you know, who you're with and what you're seeing, what you're doing, I think can help a lot with some of the things that we talking about today.
Teri (40:27.702)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (40:35.875)
Yeah. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (40:48.241)
Well, and I don't know if you guys, when was this? The big Nordstrom's annual sale and all the influencers that would push all of that. And I remember getting like frenzied about like, well, I need this and I need that. And I was definitely overspending on clothes. And then I'm trying to find space for the clothes. And I mean, I have a clothes problem for sure. And finally, I was like, I can't even be following this. So I would just, I muted.
Lauren (40:48.405)
Absolutely.
Vanessa (40:55.014)
yeah.
Lauren (41:00.429)
Yeah.
Lauren (41:14.93)
Right.
Vanessa (41:14.988)
Yeah. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (41:16.483)
or unfollowed all of those people. And I will tell you, it has made such a difference. Like I haven't missed it. Yes. And now when I like feel like, I need new pants, I'll maybe send you guys a text. Like, what are you liking? I'll maybe start to look for pants that I like, but that's a very directed type of thing versus like always just getting inundated with things I don't actually need.
Vanessa (41:21.698)
Yeah.
Lauren (41:21.731)
Gives you a little freedom, yeah.
Teri (41:23.692)
Thank you.
Lauren (41:29.912)
Right.
Teri (41:30.296)
Mm-hmm.
Teri (41:40.248)
Yeah.
Vanessa (41:41.324)
Yeah, I started doing this. I started doing this and I told my daughter and then now she's kind of taken into this. But I actually had a friend way back when, when I lived back home Chicago that used to do this, anytime she'd buy something new, she would get rid of something she had. so, yeah, so I like for for years, like, I mean, when I tell you this was like, I met her in the 90s, like she was doing this way before like, you know, social media.
Lauren (41:41.591)
Right, and it feels more within your control, right?
Wilhelmina (41:43.857)
Yes, yes.
Wilhelmina (41:55.901)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (41:56.942)
you were telling us about this, I think. Yeah.
Teri (41:58.751)
One in, one out.
Wilhelmina (42:00.509)
Brilliant.
Lauren (42:07.257)
trendy.
Vanessa (42:08.14)
Hey, Ariel. So yeah, so I came home and I was like, you know, I think I need to start doing this because I feel like I'm, you know, I'm like, I'm buying too much stuff and I don't need all this stuff. And then I have all this stuff in my closet. So I told my daughter, was like, you know, I think from now on, you know, the rule will be like, if you get a new toy, cause she also doesn't want to get rid of her old toys that she's not playing with. So I'm like, if we get a new toy, we need to get rid of an old toy and same for mom. I go.
Wilhelmina (42:09.837)
Hehehehe
Vanessa (42:29.218)
But then she kind of took it to the stream and like, I think I bought like shampoo or something. And she's like, mom, we gotta get, I was like, okay, wait a second. This is not, we're not gonna do this for household products. There's gonna be exceptions. So this is just like new toy, like things that we don't need, but just things that we would like, that we want, right? And so for those things we have to. So like, I'm trying to do that as best as I can to kind of not then have, you know.
Lauren (42:35.095)
That's right, right.
Teri (42:38.744)
There are exceptions.
Vanessa (42:54.272)
so much stuff and it helps you reassess like, I really need this? Right? And what am I willing to get rid of if I'm saying that I do need this? So I think that can be helpful.
Lauren (42:56.471)
Right. Right.
Wilhelmina (42:57.031)
Yes.
Teri (43:01.822)
I remember when my kids were really little babies, maybe my oldest was a baby and somebody had mentioned that, when your kids older do one in one out. And I remember thinking that's a great idea. And I think about it maybe once a year. I've never done it. I regret that we've never done it. I wished we had, we can start today probably. We can, but I'm nine years in. wish that we
Lauren (43:19.309)
Yeah.
Vanessa (43:21.976)
no, toothpaste is not out of the tube. You can! You can!
Lauren (43:24.385)
Alright, you can do it. You can.
Teri (43:31.348)
had been in that mode starting earlier when they were toddlers or, you know, four or five years old. Because what's interesting though, as I'm thinking out loud, the fact that I don't think of it very frequently because we're so inundated with stuff, stuff, stuff, and everything that we're being exposed to, nobody's doing one in one out. It's just all in, everything in.
Vanessa (43:32.831)
earlier.
Wilhelmina (43:46.141)
Yes.
Lauren (43:46.605)
Right.
Lauren (43:52.963)
Well, is the perfect time of year, though. I don't do the one-in-one out, but every single year we go through before the holidays and try to clean out closets, clean out toy chests, all of that kind of stuff, and donate it. And that's good way of kind paring things down and recognizing, I didn't actually need all of these things. I mean, it's easier said than done. It's hard.
Wilhelmina (43:53.157)
No. More. More.
Vanessa (43:55.369)
Yeah.
Teri (43:58.167)
Yes.
Teri (44:06.636)
Same. Yep.
Vanessa (44:14.902)
Yeah, we do that too, yeah, we do that too. But I feel like the one in one out helps you in that moment, right? Like in that moment, it's like, do I really need this? And what am I willing to give? Yeah, and I don't I wasn't very good with the toys thing, you know, and I basically told her I was like, if we don't have room for anything else, it's basically what it came down to like all the toy drawers are full, all the closets are full, like
Lauren (44:21.015)
Right, it's hard on a day to day. So that's a good, yep.
Lauren (44:27.288)
You got it.
Lauren (44:35.374)
Right.
Wilhelmina (44:38.549)
That's us with stuffed animals. Too many.
Vanessa (44:39.862)
Like, so yes, and I'm like, all right, so if this is what we're gonna do, this is how we get. So I think that's a nice way for anyone who's like, well, how do I kind of like institute this rule now is you can say like, we're running out of space. So this is what we're gonna do. We're at full capacity. So here's how we're gonna like, you know, regulate that. yeah, and again, easier said than done, but I think it's a nice concept.
Lauren (44:40.567)
Right. We are done.
Yeah!
Lauren (44:50.157)
We're at full capacity. We have reached our limit.
Wilhelmina (45:01.197)
and jokes that I need to do that with shoes. And I'm like, you're right. I do. I get a new pair of shoes. And he's like, what's going on? I'm like, don't touch the shoes. Don't touch the shoes. The shoes. He's like, how's that going for you? I'm like, not well. Not well.
Lauren (45:04.141)
You are correct, right?
Vanessa (45:06.21)
Hahaha!
Vanessa (45:16.182)
Yeah, totally easier said than done. think I still have a pair of heels that I wore to my bachelorette party and I wore them once because they were white and I never wore them again and they're still in my closet because I'm like, well, maybe one day I'm going to need six inch white heels.
Lauren (45:18.853)
Exactly.
Lauren (45:26.267)
No.
Wilhelmina (45:26.558)
yeah!
Lauren (45:31.068)
Sentimental value, right? Right? You're right.
Teri (45:32.281)
You never know.
Wilhelmina (45:34.173)
I have my Doc Martens from high school. Doc Martens from high school. A box of Doc Martens from high school. Which they are back, but they're different. So they're not even the same. Yeah.
Lauren (45:37.708)
I don't know.
Vanessa (45:41.27)
Yeah, not really back exactly. Anything else that you want to share about today's All right, so now that we're at end of today's podcast, I just want to remind her to everyone listening, please know that who you are and what you are is enough. Like that's just, I think, a hard thing to do, but just know that if you're feeling that social media is having a negative impact, limit your time on it or even take a break like we mentioned.
Teri (45:41.282)
but they're different now. They're different.
Lauren (45:43.371)
No, yeah.
Wilhelmina (45:46.097)
Nah.
Lauren (45:52.185)
think we're good.
Teri (45:52.919)
No?
Wilhelmina (46:02.151)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Vanessa (46:10.016)
If the people in your life are making you feel like this, then it's probably time to reassess your friend group. We also want to highlight the importance of seeking help if you are feeling anxious or depressed or having any kind of feeling that's not healthy. Your primary care provider is always a good resource to find someone to talk to. Psychology Today is also another one. It's an online. You can go on. You just type in where you live, and it'll give you a list of psychologists and counselors in your area. You can also contact
Wilhelmina (46:37.117)
You can put your insurance in there.
Vanessa (46:39.008)
Yep, and then you can even contact your insurance provider too and get a list of folks who are in network if you're trying to use insurance. I will say be sure to find someone who's practicing evidence-based interventions like CBT, which is cognitive behavioral therapy. I say that because I know when I've talked to people, they're like, how do you know who's a good person and who's not? So I think that's just one way to kind of help. Word of mouth is also really good. Also, if you or someone you know is struggling with suicidal thoughts,
Teri (46:39.48)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (47:03.032)
please call or text the 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline at 988. That's a good way to remember it. You can also find more information about the services offered at 988lifeline.org. They offer services 24-7, 365 days a year. And if you're feeling that you're in immediate danger, you can also call 911. That's another one. Just remember, please don't hesitate to seek help. You're not alone, and there are people out there ready to support you. We know this because we are psychologists, so just sharing that with you.
Wilhelmina (47:31.761)
Hehehe.
Vanessa (47:32.94)
So thank you so much for listening today. We hope that you will join us again for our next episode. We'll surprise you with that. Don't forget to also follow us on our new Instagram page. Wilhelmina is our new official social media manager. So please come find us there and follow us there. And then also, if you want to get in touch with us, you can email us. All right. Thank you so much.
Wilhelmina (47:42.631)
You
Wilhelmina (47:52.529)
What?