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My name is Jeff, and I'd like to welcome you on a journey of reflection and insight into the tolls and triumphs of a career in automotive repair.
After more than 20 years of skinned knuckles and tool debt, I want to share my perspective and hear other people's thoughts about our industry.
So pour yourself a strong coffee or grab a cold Canadian beer and get ready for some great conversation.
Michael Doherty [00:00:05]:
What I've done in the past to make it right is I've actually asked the technician how much was that extra hour, and I will pay them out of my pocket. You know, you want to talk about character.
Jeff Compton [00:00:14]:
Yeah.
Michael Doherty [00:00:15]:
And that technician looking at you going, huh? And you say, no, I messed up. I want to make this right. You want to talk about now you're buddies and now you're on the same page. It's unbelievable.
Jeff Compton [00:00:33]:
I'm sitting here with a new friend of mine in the podcast realm, Mister Michael Doherty.
Michael Doherty [00:00:40]:
Good morning. Good morning. Thanks for having me.
Jeff Compton [00:00:41]:
Thank you. So this is, this is our first time meeting you and I.
Michael Doherty [00:00:45]:
Yes, sir.
Jeff Compton [00:00:45]:
And you know Lucas, my brother Lucas, and Braxton and everybody else. You're coming on as part of the podcast family, from what I understand.
Michael Doherty [00:00:54]:
I am very, very excited. I'm going to be launching, I think, in two weeks. I have a Monday spot. I guess Braxton let me know that. So I'm gearing up to get some episodes together and out and wanted to come here for these three days and just take it all in and meet people. And like I mentioned to you earlier, you know, I need to meet people that are smart and in the industry, that want to be in the industry and that are changing the industry. Yeah, I think that's very important.
Jeff Compton [00:01:23]:
Yeah. So your focus, your service advisor.
Michael Doherty [00:01:27]:
Yes, sir.
Jeff Compton [00:01:27]:
And that's kind of what you're going to talk about in the podcast?
Michael Doherty [00:01:30]:
Absolutely. I've been a service advisor for, I guess, a little over 15 years, well, including independent and dealership setting, probably 20, to be honest. So I've not seen it all and heard it all, but I've been around a lot of it, and I'm sure there's a lot of people out there that can benefit from somebody that's been in that seat for a long time and just having somebody to talk to, bounce ideas off of. And not necessarily, I would think that correcting people, if you would, but just lending an ear and explaining my stories of how I've gone about doing it over the years and what's worked for me and interesting to hear other people's stories and, you know, helping where I can.
Jeff Compton [00:02:20]:
It's tough, right. Because people that know my platform have heard me. Right. Sometimes it very much, when you read the comment threads, it's like advisors don't get a lot of love from technicians, right. And a lot of time I've seen and I've witnessed the advisors you were talking about. And it comes into the dispatch topic. Right. Of like the advisor going oh, Frick.
Jeff Compton [00:02:42]:
Why did that tech pull that ticket? There's no chance in hell that young man or that young lady is going to get to the root of that problem. That's a tough thing. And I have always been from the standpoint of like, first of all, you know, I was one of those people that used to say the old analogy, like, service advisors, that's just a mechanic secretary, and it's not right. There's so many more levels to it than that. But I was always the person that I'm advocating for a tech, and a service advisor is saying, oh, that tech's never going to be able to get to the bottom of that. Or, first of all, you have no business saying that is what my attitude used to be. Right. A lot of service advisors I worked with were techs that maybe just didn't, didn't, didn't hack it.
Jeff Compton [00:03:26]:
Right. They were good with people, but not so good at being able to get the parts on the car or get to the root of the problem. So I always, first and foremost for me, I'm an advocate for a technician. Always, I'm always going to be like, that's my people. That's my brother and sister is that person in the bay. And so it's taken a long time for me to come around to understanding how pivotal it all and how important the service rider job is in any business. Doesn't just have to be a dealership. Right.
Jeff Compton [00:03:54]:
It's any shop. It's the most pivotal role. They're not appreciated enough, they're not compensated well, a lot of them, and. But I'm going to say this, a lot of them don't do the job well. Right. And that's kind of where you come into this equation of, we can have these conversations about where they're. Where they're failing. Right.
Jeff Compton [00:04:16]:
And where do you see that happening? A lot.
Michael Doherty [00:04:20]:
I would probably say I see the failing a lot in lack of self confidence. And that mostly, I feel is a derivative of how they're treated at the shop by technicians or other. And keeping in mind we're working with and dealing with clients, and we're also working with and dealing with coworkers. So it's a unique mix of kind of mediation, if you would, and one of the things I was mentioning to you earlier was from a level of understanding and trying to help with workflow work mix, trying to figure out which jobs are going to be best suited for the technician that, you know is going to be able to pull through and do that job in an efficient time frame. Not have to worry about it. Did this go to the wrong tech? Is having your service advisor doing dispatch. It takes a load off the back of the shop, and it actually grows a better connection between the technicians and the service advisor. There's more communication there.
Michael Doherty [00:05:23]:
There's a better understanding. It's not front versus back. It's all encompassing. And I've seen it work. Cause that's how I prefer to do it. And I've asked the shop foreman before, hey, do you wanna starting this year, takeover dispatch? He goes, no, man, you take it. I don't want to do it. And I think some of that is because they have friends in the back they've known longer than other people that are there, that they've been working with.
Michael Doherty [00:05:50]:
And there sometimes may be some favoritism involved, things like that. But just purely from the moment you get that phone call and hearing which job or what the concern is, and you're already thinking, I know I'm going to give that vehicle's concern to this particular technician, or, I know I've got a time slot that this technician is finishing up with. It's perfect because you have to be in touch with the daily tasks, the work mix, and it all flows together, and it builds your confidence as well.
Jeff Compton [00:06:20]:
No, you and I'm involved.
Michael Doherty [00:06:21]:
You're more involved.
Jeff Compton [00:06:21]:
Yeah. You and I were talking, and you mentioned a keyword that kind of triggers some people is favoritism. But I countered with before we turned the mics on, if you have a couple really superstars, right, in a shop, and workflow is slow, or however you want to break it down, hours, pay, whatever incentivized pay plan is maybe in place. I said, those two people you almost need to look after first. And you'll see the tech sometimes say to a service shop foreman, tower, dispatch, whatever you want to call it, those guys are fed, right? They're not fed so much as I feel like these words, they're looked after, right? We know the levels to this, which is like, I've got a superstar, like you said, I've got a guy that is going to be fantastic at finding that water leak, right? He's gonna, he's gonna glove up, he's gonna keep clean, he's not gonna break panels. Everything is gonna be put back together. And then I've got a guy over there that is, like, phenomenal. That heavy line work.
Jeff Compton [00:07:22]:
He's great at it. I'm not gonna put him in there and have him take a sunroof out of a mercedes, right? It's not gonna end well. He doesn't want to do that job, and he's not to the best for that job. But when we come into a situation of, like, sometimes workflow slows down, we have to look at our key players and go. At the end of the day, even if I have work that seems pretty basic or anybody in the shop can do it, I have to make sure that those superstars, key players, whatever you want to call it in the tech realm, are looked after, because that's how I keep them in the business, because, like, you and I talk everybody right now, when I talk to people, I'm, you know, my friend, my family at promotive, every shop is trying to hire an atec, a strong diagnostic atec. And then we talk to them, and they're like, the tech didn't stay. Why? Nothing. What they were told that was going to come in from workflow, car count, right? They're on an incentivized hybrid, flat rate, whatever you want to call it, pay plan.
Jeff Compton [00:08:21]:
They just weren't making the money that they needed to make. Now, if the dispatch is not running properly, if the service writing is not running properly, they're not going to make the money that they were promised and they need to make, and it's key. I used to have a real service writers, and me, I've had more than one that I've had to, like, turn their pockets out to get the money that I should have got paid on a job. Now, I didn't physically throw them down, but it'd be like, here, go put this bulb in. And then, well, if it was only a bulb for why her signal light was flashing fast, I. She's not going to pay for that bulb. I already diagnosed the car, dude, you got to pay me. Well, what, do you want me to just pay my pocket? Yeah, because if I go and get $20 out of you for that time, you probably won't let her go without charging her next time, because it came out of your pocket, not out of the business's pocket.
Jeff Compton [00:09:17]:
So I've always had a love hate relationship. I've had some phenomenal advisors, fantastic ones. Guys that I would go to war for. I would help them because I knew that they took care of me. And my experience was always like, they're not sometimes in charge of dispatch, right? You go into some of the larger opportunity shops. You could have 18 decks. An advisor can't dispatch to 18. We have a tower now.
Jeff Compton [00:09:43]:
So they're always the. The sticky parts were become, well, that customers come in and they've requested that tech or that customers come in, and that tech had pre sold work from last time, it has to go to that tech. That's just the right thing to do. But if we weren't scheduling properly, all the communication lines are not open, people are not talking. The left hand, not talking to the right hand, whatever you want to say. All of a sudden, that job that I killed myself on last time to find that noise, now the customer is back for that big service, 5 hours pre sold. If you go and give it to somebody that never even worked on that car before, and it should have been mine. You want to see me roll my box? That's how you do it.
Michael Doherty [00:10:20]:
Yeah.
Jeff Compton [00:10:21]:
It's tough, eh?
Michael Doherty [00:10:22]:
It is. If I may, circling back to what you were talking about with, if the shop is not as busy, and there's only a couple cars coming in that day, and we're talking about taking care of the key players, right? Call it one or two technicians maybe at your shop that don't have something going on, but aren't considered an a tech, or I like to call it an a plus tech. You know, the person that's really put the time and the effort in that has gone to the classes, really is interested in being there and doing the right thing and taking care of that client in that car. It's an opportunity, as I've seen it, for the technician that doesn't have something going on that day to learn from the atech that's working on that car.
Jeff Compton [00:11:04]:
Yeah.
Michael Doherty [00:11:04]:
And again, it builds culture, it builds communication, and the next time you get a car like that, you may have two in the same day, you could say, hey, do you feel comfortable working on this? Because I saw last time you were talking to Jerry and may have got some knowledge from that, and they're like, yeah, I can do that now because I saw that happend, you know, that Atech inviting the other technician over to say, hey, I know you don't have anything going on right now, but check this out. This is how I'm doing it this way. This is why I'm doing it this way. It's building that shop culture, you know, as far as getting paid for jobs, you were talking about, you know, you put the light bulb in, the service advisor said, hey, you know, it was just a light bulb, whatever. I've always approached it as it's not my money to give away, and that's very important. Whether it's somebody asking for a discount at the counter, I'm not the person that is in charge of giving the money away. And I'll tell somebody, it's not my money to give away. We don't offer discounts.
Michael Doherty [00:12:03]:
Here's why. We're value, shop, et cetera. And from a technician standpoint, it's your time. It's your time value. So what we've done is we actually asked the technician when they're doing a job, or they've checked out the vehicle to supply us to labor time for that job and supplies the parts that they're going to need. So I know without a doubt of this is what they're gonna need for that job. Now, if I feel it's way over what it should be, I might go back. It's the exception, you know, not the rule, and say, hey, I feel like this might be a little heavy.
Michael Doherty [00:12:31]:
Do you have any wiggle room? You know, and we'll talk. We'll have a conversation about it and he might explain, hey, it's not just a light bulb. I took it out, the sockets corroded. I'm gonna have to deepen it, clean it, whatever. And had I not gone back there and asked that, I don't know. So again, it's the communication and it shows that you care about your team and it builds that relationship and it's fantastic. But having the technician give the service advisor the labor time for the job, it's great because it takes out that, am I going to get screwed on the technician side for the technician feeling that way?
Jeff Compton [00:13:04]:
What I loved is, what you said is it's not my money to give away. And that's what I have always found, is that even if a service advisor in the past knew that it wasn't their money to give away, so many times I would see they don't want to have these. They want to have the easy conversation. They don't want to have the hard conversation. If the customer has got a quote from somewhere else and it's a $1,000, they want you to do it for 900. They don't maybe necessarily want to spend the ten minutes of conversation time it may take to make it 1000 or even 1100. You know what I mean? It's just like, I can get the job. It's not $100, but we get a job.
Jeff Compton [00:13:43]:
You sell x amount of parts, you can do it any way you want from certain standpoints in the dealer, like text or at a shop. Tex don't care. This is crazy. It's gonna. I don't care if what your profit is when you're operating your business. I mean, I want you to be profitable, but I need my hours to pay, and it needs to reflect my efficiency and my production. That's it, right? If you want to donate a bunch of labor every day, go for it. It just has to reflect that what was quoted to me is at least what I get paid and that my production is where it is, because those are the numbers that if I go and interview tomorrow with somebody else, they're going to ask me, what's your efficiency like? What's your production like? And I have to be able to say, I can produce 50 hours a week.
Jeff Compton [00:14:29]:
If all of a sudden I work somewhere where it's like, your numbers look terrible because, say, we quoted front struts in a Hyundai as an example, and it should be 2.5, and we hit a keystroke and we quote it for 1.5. The technician's production number should still show 2.5, not 1.5.
Michael Doherty [00:14:52]:
Agree.
Jeff Compton [00:14:52]:
Right. And I'm not trying to say that we need to then punish that person, but if everybody all of a sudden is on a salary that's dependent on. Well, that's not a salary, but say everybody's on a pay plan that's dependent on numbers sold, we all got penalized by that keystroke failure. Right? But too many times in a shop, it's just that stuff happens. The technician can tell you that hour that that keystroke cost you. I can tell you to the penny what it cost me. Right. In the business wise, once it's all shared off this collective potential, it didn't really cost you as much.
Jeff Compton [00:15:28]:
Maybe hypothetically, but when you make that error, how many times over the course of the month, we all do terrible. So it's always been for me, is it's like the numbers of production don't reflect the true potential and the true effectiveness of the technician in the bay. It's such a very small metric to me. I look at the efficiency of how long, and I. We're talking here. My famous line, it's not about show me your proficiency, I'll give you a nightmare car. You go out and fix that car. If it took you 5 hours, as long as we got 5 hours build, it's a win.
Jeff Compton [00:16:06]:
If we got 1 hour build and it took you 5 hours, that's not necessarily the tech's fault. That's a situation of lack of communication to the customer on what it's going to take to solve this problem. What is actually our value in this job that's not on the tech but so many times because we didn't have the. The avenues in place to run it properly. The techs in this industry have suffered because of that.
Michael Doherty [00:16:31]:
It's funny that you mentioned the keystroke flop, if you would. You know, that should have been 2.5, but it turned out it was 1.5. I've had that happen a couple times in my career. It was earlier in my career, and it ate away at me. It ate away at me because I felt like I let my team down, so, you know, and I wouldn't realize it until the job's almost done. I'm not gonna call the client back and say, hey, I messed up and you need to pay another XYZ. What I've done in the past to make it right is I've actually asked the technician, how much was that extra hour, and I will pay them out of my pocket. You want to talk about character?
Jeff Compton [00:17:10]:
Yeah.
Michael Doherty [00:17:10]:
And that technician looking at you going, huh? And you say, no, I messed up. I want to make this right. You want to talk about now you're buddies, and now you're on the same page. It's unbelievable. Or, hey, you know, I messed this up. It's on me. Can I. Can I buy your lunch tomorrow?
Jeff Compton [00:17:27]:
Yeah.
Michael Doherty [00:17:27]:
Right? It's. It's acknowledging that a mistake was made, but it's how you react and not just throwing it under the bus, like, as just. It was just an hour. He's gonna have 50 this week. It'll be fine. He's not worried about the 50. He's worried about that one that you just passed off is not a problem.
Jeff Compton [00:17:42]:
Yeah, we're not interested in the excuses of why it happens. And that's too many times. An advisor I saw, it's like, listen, I got 20 cars to handle. Again, from the technician standpoint, I got a lot going on in the back, too. Right? I got a deadline to meet. I got a. Like this. This bolt's fighting me, right? This wiring harness is fighting me.
Jeff Compton [00:17:59]:
It's all fighting. We're all fighting battles. Your little key flub. We're not trying to hold you to a level of perfection, but at the end of it all, it costs a lot, right? There's controllable variables. That's a controllable variable. Sometimes the bolt just was going to break no matter what you do. That's an uncontrollable variable. The technician's job is to keep as many of the variables in control as it is for you.
Jeff Compton [00:18:25]:
And that says a lot about a person's character. We're not necessarily saying you owe me $50, right? I mean, in a nutshell, yes, you'd kind of do. But in the. If you make an effort to say, I really know that I messed up and I'd like to do whatever I can, that's where for so long it was just like, and it works that the old joke is, I'll get you on the next one. A lot of us have worked where it was like we would take that and run with it as trust because I knew I go to into the fire for him. He will get me on the next one eventually. It. But where that can be contrived and manipulated against both sides is when they don't allow that to happen.
Jeff Compton [00:19:07]:
That's the very organic relationship sometimes happens between a technician and an advisor is that can happen and it works and it's flow and all that kind of. It's good, but if you get to be too big where you can't look after that person or nobody's watching and they're just going, I don't know what happened there. He just had an off week. He didn't have an off week. There was a. All kinds of things out of that control and look at what it did. He normally turned 60, he turned 35. How do you think he goes home at the end of the week feeling he feels this big to the business? He doesn't.
Jeff Compton [00:19:41]:
Or she looks like there's the trains going off the track and everybody's asking, what, what happened? What happened? Well, a lot of things happened, but in too many shops, the advisor has always been. The customers love that advisor. I can't do anything about it. I just have to accept that. Sometimes they hit the wrong key, sometimes, you know, they forget to order the parts, sometimes they order the right side instead of the left, whatever. At the end of the day, we have to hold everybody accountable and go, that cost big in the back. We had to wait. Now the car had to get back together and pushed out because we were to the wrong part.
Jeff Compton [00:20:18]:
It's just an example. And everybody kind of looks at it and goes, why are technicians so militant towards some advisors? Because a lot of places that advisor just collects a paycheck, right? They're just.
Michael Doherty [00:20:34]:
I hope not well, but I hope they earn it. But I hear.
Jeff Compton [00:20:37]:
But you understand what I mean, right?
Michael Doherty [00:20:38]:
Yes.
Jeff Compton [00:20:38]:
It's not so much their paycheck is reflective upon how many hours are sold. They can kind of work a salary. Maybe there's a bonus, but I could show you dozens of technicians or technicians, dozens of advisor work for that. It was like they were in such a dump that didn't rely on a bonus because they knew it was like a dangling carrot. We're never gonna get there. So I'm gonna show up and they're gonna pay me x amount per hour, and I'm gonna be here six days a week, and at the end of the week, I'm gonna go home with this much money. And if I have a couple really good jobs, maybe it rolls up on that, that technician. If all of a sudden there's nowhere coming in, there's no pay going out to them.
Jeff Compton [00:21:18]:
So that's why it's always been a divide sometimes between a technician advisors, because they look at advisor and go, well, you're still getting paid something, bro.
Michael Doherty [00:21:28]:
I have seen both sides of it. The one that I personally like on the advisor side is there's a base salary and then there's bonus tied to it every week. So if the sales goal is x, if the advisor hits that and it's tiered in different, different brackets, but, you know, it's tangible, it's reachable, it's not the carrot on a stick, because if you do the carrot on a stick, month one, okay, maybe it was just an off month, month two, month three, month four. You're right. You fall into that mindset of it's just, it's just unrealistic. It's not going to happen. Why am I pushing for more? Why am I pushing for better? So that's a failure on the pay plan side, and that has to be fixed. I mean, I get it.
Michael Doherty [00:22:14]:
We're there to make money. We're there to take care of our families, but if we look at it individually, it doesn't work. You have to look at, I'm taking care of my team. That's the excitement for me is coming in, in the morning. Like, I'm glad there's not a lot of police on the roads where I work because I'm in a hurry to get to work. I'm in a hurry to get to work, to check the emails, to check the voicemails. What's the, what's the opportunities for that day that I know can help my team?
Jeff Compton [00:22:41]:
So let's back up a little bit and tell me, because my podcast is a lot about. It's. I'm just telling stories, right? You're going to tell me your story. I'm going to always give people little snippets of mine back forth. How did you get to where this is what you chose as a career, because, like, I love fixing cars. I hate talking to people about what is wrong with their car. Like, it just. There's certain actions that trigger me.
Jeff Compton [00:23:08]:
How did you find yourself doing this, Michael?
Michael Doherty [00:23:10]:
I started working at a dealership in Raleigh. At the time, it was an Audi Porsche dealer. And I was doing detailing. I was doing a porter, dropping off cars, picking up cars. And I'd always found myself around the front end area waiting for the service advisor to give me a key to a car that needed to be cleaned. Or could you shuttle mister misses so and so down the street or whatever. And while I'm sitting back waiting for those, you know, next jobs, just hearing some of the conversation. And I've always been a people person, right? So just kind of being around it and being in the industry for so long.
Michael Doherty [00:23:49]:
And then there was an opportunity. Well, it was kind of a forced opportunity, but I was up at the front desk one day. There was a lady, her name was Connie. And Connie was going over the board, and everything was handwritten, you know, customer year, make, model, phone number, what's being done to it? And I'm up front, and Connie's going over the board with me, and I looked at her and I said, why are you showing me all this stuff? And she goes, that's it. I'm done. I'm out of here. You can have it. And literally walked out.
Michael Doherty [00:24:21]:
So, you know, call it thrown into the deep end with no lifeguard on, right?
Jeff Compton [00:24:26]:
Yeah.
Michael Doherty [00:24:27]:
And then the service manager at that time kind of came over and he goes, what's going on? I said, Connie left. And he goes, I showed me all these things. And he goes, well, do you want to give it a shot? And I said, yeah, that'd be cool. And just kind of jumped into the role. And I did it myself off and on for about 30, 60 days. And then the company that I worked for, they didn't actually have a service advisor program, but they had a service advisor that had transferred from a Mercedes dealership over to where I worked. And that person was a mentor to me and really showed me I feel the right way to do things. And what I mean by that is he spent 30 days with me on the phones, making appointments, just talking to people.
Michael Doherty [00:25:11]:
And then we got into creating an Ro, doing a write up, client guided sales follow up. It was a year process, and I'm a byproduct of that. I'm very thankful for him taking the time to do that with me. And then it just kind of. Just kind of went from there.
Jeff Compton [00:25:28]:
That's awesome.
Michael Doherty [00:25:29]:
Being a people person helped because you definitely have to be a people person. But just working with cars, working with people, like that passion collided for me and that's what kind of launched it.
Jeff Compton [00:25:41]:
And see, that's such an unusual tale that you just told about mentorship from one advisor to the next. Because I could tell you, I never saw that. You know what I mean? Like, they might come over and show you how to navigate the new program. Say, you always used to use Reynolds and Reynolds way back in the day, right? We're going old school and now you're on ADP or whatever, right?
Michael Doherty [00:26:00]:
Yeah, we had ADP.
Jeff Compton [00:26:01]:
Yeah. So it's like you might have to come in and learn, but they're not going to show you. Like, this is how that seemed to be something that was the service manager maybe spent a morning with you and then that was at your throne, like you said, in the deep end, whereas we, as technicians, a lot of us have stories of, like, this was my mentor who showed me the first year, two years, three years that I was in this shop or this dealership, how to navigate it, how to survive it. That's kind of cool. Where's that mentor for you now?
Michael Doherty [00:26:27]:
We still keep in contact. He lives in Raleigh and every quarter we get together and we go to Panera and have breakfast. Still keep in contact. He's been retired for about, I want to say, four or five years now, but it's great to see him still keep in contact. We share stories back and forth and I ask him still for advice. He's still a pivotal part in my career, in my life, and I appreciate all his guidance. And you're right, I haven't seen many service advisor mentors, if you would. Typically, when people think of service advising, I mean, it's sales, but it's more people focused.
Michael Doherty [00:27:08]:
And I tell people, like, car sales and service advising are two totally different things. If you have somebody that's teaching car sales to a service advisor, it doesn't work. It's two totally different things. So I'm excited to help service advisors because I've been doing it for so long and I still want to learn things, too. It's a constant learning environment, a bunch of stories just. Just getting it out there that, you know, whether they feel underappreciated or they're about to walk off the ledge because somebody says something, you're feeling undervalued. But in that role, it's a quarterback position, is what I feel. I really do.
Michael Doherty [00:27:47]:
It's a quarterback position and not from a sense of the glamour of it, but just the helping the team out, getting the team down the field, everybody's on the same page. The goal, I mean, a good service advisor can make it or break it for the team that day. And just being focused, being confident, having product knowledge, like I said, the front and the back collaborating, I mean, it makes a day go by easier, but really just, I guess a helpline, if you would, for service advisors. Because from what I've been told, there's not a lot of people that offer coaching for service advisors.
Jeff Compton [00:28:23]:
No. And it's through my podcast and really putting myself out there in social media that I've met a couple that have platforms and are doing really well. But I mean, like, you see the hate that they get in their comments on their socials about how there's so much, like, we were going back to the beginning, how service advisors are so despised now, you and I, before we came on, we kind of talked about a wrinkle that goes on a lot of shops. And this is why we have a conversation last night and I said, this is why I think a lot of technicians either are like, I am a career dealer technician or I am a career independent shop technician. And I think that the advisor role plays a huge factor in why they choose what they choose. And I'll tell you why. Got a lot of family dynamic in a lot of, some of the smaller shops or independent shops, right? So technician leaves the dealership, enough of this shit. I'm going and I start my own business.
Jeff Compton [00:29:18]:
Wife, girlfriend at the time, whatever comes along and says, okay, you're going to write the service for me because they're the team, right? She is going to go to bat for him no matter what. It makes sense that I am going to. It's our money now. It's our business. Well, problem being is, if that person is weak in selling, is emotionally connected at a very high level to everybody that comes in. It can be a real liability, financial wise, in the business, right? And this is the. So when I talk to a lot of technicians about where this comes from, the hate on service visor seems to come from two places. I was either a flat rate tech that had my hours shaved constantly by advisors that just wanted to get a sale and not get all the labor, but at least they got some because they get their commission.
Jeff Compton [00:30:07]:
Or I went and worked in a shop where everything that I went and touched, they couldn't sell it, or it didn't sell for the value that it should have sold because they know this person's going through this hard time. That person's going through that hard time. Like, I just, I can't hold misses Smith's car at fix her transmission. Misses Smith's mother's in elderly care and, and all this kind of stuff. Can we do the transmission for a $1,000? No, it doesn't matter. You can feel for Misses Smith, but it shouldn't change what the bill has to be.
Michael Doherty [00:30:46]:
Yeah. Having empathy, but understanding, it's still a business. It has to function as a business.
Jeff Compton [00:30:49]:
Yeah. And that's where. So, man, my hats off to a good advisor. My hats off to them, because, like, and I'll tell you, I'm in that dynamic where it's a family shop. And I'm not trying to say that my people that I work for are doing anything wrong, that they're. I don't. I love them. They're great.
Jeff Compton [00:31:07]:
They're killing it. But I see it as an obstacle sometimes from where that next level that we could get to. Too much of the empathy, too much of the emotional discounting. And I, as smart as I am, I don't know what the solution is for it. I really don't. We talked about it. Lucas and I have said, and sometimes Lucas is like, do you know how many shops that we walked in when we did the mastermind group? And they said that, okay, you really should just have her stay home because she's costing you x amount of dollars at the end of the month on what didn't get sold. That's a hard, bitter pill to swallow for some people, but you have to put at the end of the day, what is the best for the business.
Jeff Compton [00:31:52]:
So, you know, it's tough, man. It really is. My heart breaks for people that are struggling that way. And we see it. We see a lot of the independent shops and we talk to, and I know Lucas has been in a pile of them, and it's like, there's the liability right there. How do you have that tough conversation?
Michael Doherty [00:32:08]:
So is that particular person that you're talking about a actively involved their day to day? Okay. And they're technically filling a service advisor role, and there isn't another service advisor.
Jeff Compton [00:32:25]:
So, yeah, we have kind of three people at my shop that will fill a service advisor role that will necessarily, like, process the digital DVI, build the estimate. Now, when I say build the estimate, look up the like, we may source the parts for them, we may write down the labor time, but it's ultimately, they then table that work, order that repair, order that estimate. Whatever you want to call it to the customer via phone call. Most of the time we're trying to get more people on text and emails. A lot of time, what happens is like, I'll look at a job and go, this thing's really rusted. I know the book is like 2.6. It should really be done at three because I know that that bolt is going to take a little bit of extra time to get out because I'm going to have to heat it. That next bolt to it, I'm going to have to heat it.
Jeff Compton [00:33:17]:
We'll get the job when the work order comes back. And oftentimes it's in at the book time or even less.
Michael Doherty [00:33:29]:
Does that particular individual understand or have a product knowledge of what's going on or do they have to be explained?
Jeff Compton [00:33:37]:
They have to be. They're very much not a technician. So it's like, but at the end of the day, we can say, this is why this needs extra time.
Michael Doherty [00:33:46]:
Okay.
Jeff Compton [00:33:47]:
That's not in their character to add.
Michael Doherty [00:33:52]:
And there is somebody else that can do the writing of the tickets better.
Jeff Compton [00:33:57]:
We just hired a new person. He seems to be doing well. Automotive is not necessarily his background either. He worked in a lawn equipment repair center right next door to us. So he's familiar with customers making the, he's good at building the work order, tabling the work order, the customer. Okay. And it, but it's a situation of, he is very high stress. He's very keyed up.
Jeff Compton [00:34:24]:
He's, he's enthusiastic. I think he's on a commission based pay now. So he's like, I want to say yes to the customer. I want to not have the hard conversations. They handed me a ticket at 03:00 in the afternoon. That's a six and a half hour ticket. We close at six. And he's asking me now, maybe he was only kidding, but he asked me, will this be done end of day? And I kind of looked at him and it was like, no, right? And then, but what that triggers me is it triggers me into a mindset of how I'm now rushing through this job.
Jeff Compton [00:34:58]:
And this rushing through this job that I did ended up costing me. I had to go back in and fix something that we may have caused or may not have caused. I can't prove that I caused it, but we ended up having to go back and work all because I'm all of a sudden feeling the time crunch because the customer, here's how the backstory is. It had an oil leak. It needed oil cooler lines. We told the customer when we first did it, here's the lines. We looked up in the labor. We quoted an hour.
Jeff Compton [00:35:28]:
Then the manager looks at it and goes, that's not an hour. He finds the proper labor terminal time. Excuse me, that's a six and a half hour job. He makes the emission, calls the customer and says, sorry, we effed up your actual job to do this is six and a half hours. So already we've now kind of shot ourselves in the foot on our image to the customer, right? So now it becomes a pressure cooker. The whole, this particular ro, you can see where I'm going with this. So then when he comes out to me, it says, will this be done by end of day? Because now the customer probably, if they'd have known when we started it that it wasn't going to be 1 hour and probably wasn't going to be end of day, they maybe would have taken the truck for the weekend and maybe then had the time to shop it around, you know, think about whether they're going to fix it or not. That was not our intention at all, was to get them with a bait and switch type scenario.
Jeff Compton [00:36:23]:
But it's a situation of all of a sudden now that job, because of a couple snafus on that side of the door, the whole job becomes a pressure cooker, right? This is the culture that gets put on techs in shops from the go, go, go, incentivize, incentivize production, production base where the wheels fall off the cart every day because of this, right? And I, and it, it drives me nuts. And it's like, why am I such an advocate for technicians? Because I have lived this for 20 some years. As long as you've been on your side of your counter. I've been longer on mine watching how the same mistakes happen over and over again. And it causes the whole culture of the business to be at a certain level. And that's what really tears me up, because it's like, I know my people come to work every day and love the people that they work with and they love what they do and they like, they want to do well, but they don't necessarily always are given the tooling or the time or the leadership to be able to see it through. And so what happens, what I hate is when people look at it and they go, techs just want to add more time because they want to make more money. No, techs want to add more time because they want their production to show what you want it to look like.
Jeff Compton [00:37:42]:
100% minimum covering their time. And of course, technicians want to see jobs be profitable. Right. But all of a sudden, it's like you're just trying to rip that customer off. That's the feedback that a lot of even owners still give to a technician when they're in an incentivized role. Say you just want to rip the customer off. You know how hard that is to swallow to be told? Because already in the industry, we're all thought of everybody. A lot of people come in, right? You've dealt with it.
Jeff Compton [00:38:08]:
They think you're just ripping them off. And now we have a faction within the business that's telling the people out back, I think you're trying to rip our customers off. It doesn't work.
Michael Doherty [00:38:19]:
Yeah. I mean, when someone calls, if they're obviously not a client that's been in before, we'll ask them how they heard of us or what's the marketing source? Was it Google, was it word of mouth, whatever. And then usually a second question I have is, if I may, where have you been going? And they'll open up and they'll tell you about the bad experience they had. A. And you lock that into your head that that was the reason they left that shop. And can I guarantee that that won't happen at the shop I'm at? And, you know, automatically it just breaks down the wall of, you know, and you can see, you know, again, the empathy part of it. You know, I'm sorry that you had that experience, or I'm sorry they didn't take care of you. We don't work like that.
Michael Doherty [00:39:05]:
Here's how we work. Invite them to come by the shop and check it out. If they're skeptical, you know, walk them in the shop. Show them the shop. You know, I've brought some people in the back before, and there's a car that's torn apart or maybe one bay looks like pigpen. But, yeah, they're still kind of getting a vibe of, you know, how many people are invited to come to a shop to check it out? You know, they're inviting me in. You know, I mean, that's important. But back to what you were saying about the person that's kind of giving stuff away and then the other person that may not be evolved, not evolved enough, but confident enough, and I explaining or whatever, the person you're talking about that kind of gives it away or really talking with the customers.
Michael Doherty [00:39:46]:
What type of marketing do you guys do? Is it outsourced? Is it in source? Does that person do anything? Because it sounds like that person's a real people person.
Jeff Compton [00:39:57]:
Oh, huge. They're very people. Very people people. Most of our marketing is just facebook. We're a small town community, so it's like, yeah, we're known. Yeah, we have a good reputation of being like when, when people ask, for instance, in a community group, what shop should I take my car to go see this shop? They treat you fair. Yeah, that's all good reputation. We have a reputation for being, actually being able to fix some pretty good diagnostic problems.
Jeff Compton [00:40:26]:
Yeah, it's a good thing to have. But the problem being is sometimes is it's like marketing. You can do marketing two ways. You can do marketing at your expense of. I had 3 hours into it. I told them only be an hour, it was only an hour. And then that rinse, wash and repeat, it happens over and over again. That's part of your marketing, because your reputation goes around that.
Jeff Compton [00:40:52]:
They really took care of me. They stood by what they said, that's all good things. And then the other reputation can be, man, they're expensive. They wanted $300 just to look at the car to tell me what my diagnostic problem was going on. Don't take it to them, they're just trying to rip you off. See, this is the marketing thing that is like I keep saying, techs that have their labor shaved are paying for the marketing of a lot of shops. And owners go, what are you talking about? Think about it, right? If they came to you with an estimate for a, you did it for 900. All of everybody suffered at that work order.
Jeff Compton [00:41:29]:
Everybody lost. But it was a technician who hours directly replaced or directly reflect, excuse me, labor hours. They're the ones that lost the biggest. And that's so the technicians are very responsible for the marketing. Marketing and me, it's important. But I could show you successful shop. I mean successful went from dirt floor, two people to three businesses that don't spend hardly anything on marketing. They're known for being able to fix the car, but they're very good at picking their battles, which is like, if we're probably not the shop for you, right? And that's what everybody hates to hear, we might not be the shop for you.
Jeff Compton [00:42:15]:
There's always a shop for somebody. There's a shop for everybody. This is where some of the technicians can look at a job and go, we're not, there's going to be no fat on that bone. By the time we're done with this job. It's going to fight us every step of the way. We're locked into this price. Let it go and they won't. That's tough, really is.
Jeff Compton [00:42:36]:
And then that becomes some of that animosity between tech and owner, tech and manager, because we're not trying to just stand there and do nothing all day long, but we're also keyed into, you want us to be efficient, you want us to produce. It looks poorly. If it takes me 16 hours to do an eight hour transmission job, looks poorly on me. Even though I could document everything. That's, like, why it took. Still looks poorly. If we only charge the eight. Right.
Jeff Compton [00:43:08]:
If we sell properly to the customer, we justify the extra time. Fear is what keeps a lot of us. I feel that I talk to from getting that time. You the same way. I think you're nodding at me like, yeah, definitely.
Michael Doherty [00:43:28]:
And the reason I was asking about the marketing part of it, and I can't promise, obviously, that's going to be solution for you guys, but it sounds like a very similar situation that I've had at a shop that, that I, that I work for. It was originally a son who started the business and then sold it to the parents. And then the son moved back and wanted it back. They wouldn't sell it back to him. And he started a second shop down the street, and it was, again, it just was a very awkward situation. Yeah, it would be, um, but when things are going well, we're going well. The, one of the owners would come in and hang out at the front counter and talk to people and take phone calls and, you know, I wouldn't say give, give stuff away, but sometimes, yes, stuff slips through the cracks and. Oh, well, I know, so, and so we can give her a family discount or we can get, you know, whatever.
Michael Doherty [00:44:26]:
So what we did was we took that, and I'm not going to say it was a negative, but we took that negative and turned it into a positive. Instead of saying, stop doing that, we pulled the individual aside and we said, you know what? You're so good with talking to the clients, and they really, like, they enjoy your company. You're in the customer lounge with them. Maybe you show them how to use the remote or making a coffee for them. Keep that person on doing those things. That's why I asked about the marketing part of it.
Jeff Compton [00:44:58]:
Yeah.
Michael Doherty [00:44:58]:
Have that person outside of the shop getting, if she's a talker or he's a talker, have them talk. Yeah, that's great. You know, and not saying you don't want them in the shop, but if there, there's got to be some positive that they do, and if it's the talking part of it and people like talking with them and she or he can relate, and there's empathy, that's great. Have them shuttle people down the street, have them greet people, have them do customer follow ups after the car is gone, give them more of a tailored client concierge role, and get them out of the service advisor position where they're not actually speaking with and dealing with the money part of it in the sales portion.
Jeff Compton [00:45:38]:
Huge.
Michael Doherty [00:45:39]:
But just, again, they're involved, and we like what you're doing. You're great at it, and they are. You just got to get them to see that and move them aside to that role, and that opens up the lane. Then you have a conversation with the other service advisor, hey, x, or he or she's going to be doing this, you need to now step it up and do x, y, or z, and here's y. And that takes that person out of that. They're giving stuff away, role, etcetera. So it's recognizing there's some positives there, too, with that person, but just trying to figure out how to not say, don't do this, but you'd be better doing this because you're so great at it. Then they gravitate toward doing that, and then they're not concentrating on the numbers and the giving stuff where they're not at the front counter.
Jeff Compton [00:46:22]:
Yeah, and. But I see that dynamic, and I got to reiterate, it's not that I ever look at these people that are great people people and go, you have no business being in the business. You know, that's not it at all. We want you there. You're pivotal role. Huge. Right. But I wish they could see the damage that they're doing sometimes by, by being that empathetic to a fault.
Jeff Compton [00:46:46]:
Empathetic to a fault. Right. And it's not. It's not even a conscious thing. There's no malice there, but there's no malice on the other side, too. And it's like, I really need more time to flesh out this to get this repair done. We're always seeing as, like, I can't do that because I'm gonna burn that customer.
Michael Doherty [00:47:03]:
Yeah.
Jeff Compton [00:47:03]:
Well, let's think about if that rapport that they have in that relationship they have with that customer is really so good that, that they're worthy of the empathy. Are you really worried about burning them and scaring them off? You shouldn't be. If you guys are so tight, like, you know, Mike and Ike, $100 shouldn't break that relationship up.
Michael Doherty [00:47:26]:
It definitely shouldn't. And I feel like a large part of that also is how the service advisor is doing the write up. And what I mean by that is where I'm at currently. If somebody calls me and says they have a check engine light, I will ask qualifying questions. Instead of just saying, okay, we can make you an appointment on this day, and we're gonna need an hour or dag that runs $100, whatever, we'll see you on this date. And then the car comes in, you give it back to the technician, and it's a check engine light. Okay. There's still a lot of question boxes there.
Michael Doherty [00:47:59]:
So questions I may ask the client as qualifying is how long has the light been on for? Has the vehicle been running or acting any differently since the light has been on? Have you had any work done to the car recently? Recently? Have you changed any parts? And if so, what did you replace? And getting that information makes it more efficient for your technician, also in the diagnostic process. But it also opens up the conversation for me and the client to say, okay, we're going to start with a level one that's going to be x, and it is possible that additional time may be needed. If so, we will quote you at that time when we're done with the level one. So. And most of the time it doesn't happen, but the times that it does, they're not surprised that I'm calling back with, hey, this is what we've done in this block of time. We feel we need an extra half hour or maybe another hour. Here's why versus just. They're just trying to get money from me.
Michael Doherty [00:48:56]:
They were preemptively made aware based, and it's circumstantial, you know, like you said, if you've got the car that's been to three different shops and nobody can fix it, and you've got the guy, you know, you're smiling through the phone, I can fix that. We can fix that. I've got the guy. But we got to start with a level two, and here's why, you know, and get all that information. And then you call them, tell them what you found, here's what it's going to take to fix it, and, you know, that's what's going to be. I mean, everybody's happy, but having that preemptive questions asked and the opening for there may be additional time needed, you know, because you're not feeling, I mean, I gotta call misses Jones back and let her know it's gonna be under $50 and she might not take that well. No, misses. Jones should already be made aware that it's possible.
Jeff Compton [00:49:37]:
Yes.
Michael Doherty [00:49:37]:
That there might be some additional time.
Jeff Compton [00:49:39]:
And you're gonna get a second phone call. Even if it's only an update. It's an update with an authorization request on it for more. I fight that struggle a lot because it's like, as a really strong diagnostic tech, like I am, so much of how I approach the cardinal part of my process is knowing as much information as possible right now, background. At the dealership, for me, we either were relying a lot on pattern failure. I had a known good. Sitting right next to me in the next bay over was another caravan that was if I had a memory lapse. What does it feel like at whatever speed to drive that? When the training shifts, I could go get in that van and drive it.
Jeff Compton [00:50:19]:
I see technicians all the time and they are struggling now because it's like the customer makes an appointment, you get dispatched the car and it says, check engine light on. I may scan that car and there's three codes in that car. One's going to be an evap code, one's going to be a misfire code. One's a catalyst efficiency fault. The misfire is probably the one that brought the customer in because it's now got a symptom related to that EVAP faults, when they go, they don't normally, normally make the car run different. It's just a tricache captain. Right. Catalyst efficiency failure doesn't normally make a car run wrong, just some turns light on.
Jeff Compton [00:50:55]:
So the customer is there to address the misfire. But when I go to them and I say, okay, how do we break this down? Because I have three codes, they go, what do you mean? How do you break this down? Like, just the customer wants the light off. To me, there's three different things happening with this car. Minimum three. What? What is the customer's end game? What's the goal? They want the car to not misfire anymore. Cool story. Okay, now we need to make sure that the customer is aware. I'm going to address the misfire.
Jeff Compton [00:51:25]:
The like, car will likely come back for an EVAP fault. The car will likely come back for a catalyst efficiency fault. We're just going to fix the symptom that has got them concerned. Great. I trying to get advisors to even it to be able to explain this to the customer really hard. And then I go, how long has the light been on? I don't know. I didn't ask. Did they have any work done? I don't know.
Jeff Compton [00:51:50]:
I didn't ask. They've never been here before. How do they know? Like, we'll see it. Customer has an oxygen sensor code. How do they know they have an oxygen. Oh, they have a code reader. Okay. Have they been clearing the codes? How long has the code been popping up? These are questions all the time that technicians.
Jeff Compton [00:52:05]:
I find when we're dealing with people that need a little bit more training as service advisor, they're not asking the qualifying questions. It's not because the technician is lazy and wants to do as little as work as possible. We want. It's part of our process to know, how do I approach this car? Like, I need questions.
Michael Doherty [00:52:25]:
Like, it's transfer of information. Yes, it's transfer of information on both sides.
Jeff Compton [00:52:30]:
What?
Michael Doherty [00:52:30]:
It's getting it. When you're making the appointment, it's a technician reeling it to the service advisor, and the service advisor, if he or she does not know, rather than guessing or not giving the right information, saying, excuse me, technician. Here's what I'm reading. Is this correct? Before I call the client and everybody's on the same page. But, yeah, I mean, it's transfer of information.
Jeff Compton [00:52:52]:
I have customers come in and it's like, check engine light is on. Cool. And then it's like the Abs lights also on. And that's written in hand letter. Right. The printed work order, the appointment made. Check engine light diagnostic. Get into the car.
Jeff Compton [00:53:07]:
Check engine lights on. And abs. Still one labor line. How do we break this up? Are they. Do they want them? Well, they'd like both lights fixed. Cool. All right, that's doable. Where do I spend my time, priority wise, on those two lights? That's the problem that a lot of technicians have, is because it's like, I know that really, realistically, it's probably.
Jeff Compton [00:53:30]:
I need about an hour per complaint. They don't want to give that.
Michael Doherty [00:53:35]:
I've had that situation many a time. One thing that I like to do is ask people again, it's part of the qualifying questions is. And sometimes we get online appointment requests and it says, check engine light on. Traction control light on. Tire pressure light on. So for the tire pressure warning, I'm always asking, which color is it? Yellow or red? And for the check, engine light and the scallop traction control light, I will ask as part of the question, did these lights come on simultaneously? If no, which one came on first? How long has it been on for? I mean, we're building a storyline not only for the technician, but the customer to understand that they're not related yes. And we'll quote a level one for the check engine light and a level one for the traction control light and let them know in our process, if we find out that they are related, then we will do the right thing and we'll just charge you for the level one. But we have to start with they are separate systems and until that's identified as they're related or not, you know, you have to be prepared to invest the money into checking out your car.
Jeff Compton [00:54:38]:
You've seen it. Cart. There are cars that when the check engine light comes on, it will throw an ABS code.
Michael Doherty [00:54:41]:
Yep.
Jeff Compton [00:54:42]:
I think of Toyota did that for years. Yep.
Michael Doherty [00:54:45]:
Yeah. VSC, DSC check engine. Like all these warnings on and yeah.
Jeff Compton [00:54:50]:
I've seen charging faults on Toyota turn the check engine light on.
Michael Doherty [00:54:53]:
Really?
Jeff Compton [00:54:54]:
Or not check engine. It might have been Abs, something like that. I've seen when they start to d rate because of charging, that warning light comes on. That's all. Something that if I know that it's common to that car and to say there's two lines written, any good technician is going to go out there and go, yeah, you don't have to worry about that. 2nd 199 percent of the time it's going to be this. We're going to scan it, we're going to have our pre scan. It's going to come up, it's going to be documented.
Jeff Compton [00:55:15]:
It's going to show that it is only there because of that. And then we roll on through just the diagnostic of the check engine light. When you bring it in to me and it's like the customer, you're trying to give them, it's like they're trying to get a two for one, you know, on an Abs. It drives me crazy because we're devaluing it. Right. And I don't know how to. What's the customer? ABS is safety. Check engine light.
Jeff Compton [00:55:37]:
Is check engine light. It can be serious. Can also be just an evap fault. Nobody's gonna fix it. Does the customer concerned about the Abs light and just curious about the check engine light?
Michael Doherty [00:55:49]:
True. And also that's where I think asking the right questions, the qualifying questions come in because half people before say, you know, with the check engine light, I'll say, how long has it been on for? It just came on this morning and they sound panicked and they want to get in as soon as possible. That tells me that's somebody that really wants to get their car looked at. They're concerned and they want to get in as soon as possible. And if had the off swing where I say, how long's your check engine been on for a while. And I say, well, could you define a while? Oh, a while. Could you tell me exactly how many months? A year. Wow, okay.
Michael Doherty [00:56:20]:
So that tells me that you're likely just trying to get it cleared for a state inspection. It's not as important to you. Now does that mean I'm not going to give you the same level, level of service? No, it just kind of tells me that that's probably going to have a bunch of faults. So again, prepping the work order to say that it's additional testing time maybe required above this level one, it's all how you format it and how you explain it and the transparency of it, and that's very important. So they're aware when they're coming exactly what they're getting for that dollar amount and that the technician is also aware that they're not thinking, I'm just going to be on this for two, three, 4 hours. And one thing I found too, is if we have a car that's back in the shop, and we constantly remind our technicians, not because we think they don't listen to us, but because it's important and we devalued their time, is, you know, set your timer for 40 minutes, get a little oven timer, set it back there for 40 minutes, and when it goes ding, write your story down, let me know what you found. If we're still not at the root cause or you're gonna need some additional testing, let me know, because I've seen so many technicians that just really care and they keep on it, they keep on it, they keep on it. And now we're two, 3 hours in, and at that point I'm not able to call the client and let them know that they've got to pay for extra testing time.
Jeff Compton [00:57:35]:
Yeah.
Michael Doherty [00:57:36]:
So I've seen that go both ways too, where it's like they're just so invested into, I want to figure this out, I'm into it. And you may forget that they're back there doing it and you go back and go, hey, it's, you know, lunchtime. Are you still working on that?
Jeff Compton [00:57:47]:
Yeah.
Michael Doherty [00:57:48]:
So.
Jeff Compton [00:57:49]:
So, Michael, let me ask you, if, if we have an advisor in a shop and they haven't, weren't as fortunate as you were to have a mentor, such a strong mentor in the role of getting into this line of work, what's the best thing that we can do for the advisor in that shop that we have?
Michael Doherty [00:58:07]:
I would say pair them with somebody who has had experience and that is relatable and that they can run situations. Bye. Have a phone conversation or maybe a video conversation, you know, or just even just. I had this client. I had this client that I thought I did everything right and he still was. We take things too personally.
Jeff Compton [00:58:28]:
Yes.
Michael Doherty [00:58:28]:
And early in the game, man, I lost hair.
Jeff Compton [00:58:34]:
Yeah.
Michael Doherty [00:58:34]:
You know, I was so stressed out. I'm like, I'm being as nice as I can. This person is just down my throat. It's not you.
Jeff Compton [00:58:40]:
Yeah.
Michael Doherty [00:58:41]:
It's the situation. It's maybe the price. It's. They're just unloading on you that day because you're the one giving them bad news. And having somebody that's been in the role for so long myself to talk to or be a coach to and listen objectively. And it's been in that seat. And I really feel like for a service advisor, you have to talk to another service advisor or someone that's done that job. Someone that was a service advisor and is now in finance.
Jeff Compton [00:59:13]:
Right.
Michael Doherty [00:59:13]:
Not somebody that was a service advisor is now selling cars.
Jeff Compton [00:59:16]:
Yeah.
Michael Doherty [00:59:16]:
Because it's in real time and you have to be in the role in doing it. Kind of like football, you know, they have a defensive coordinator, they have a offensive coordinator, they have special teams coordinator. Those people specialize in those roles in particular because that's what they're great at doing.
Jeff Compton [00:59:33]:
Yeah.
Michael Doherty [00:59:34]:
So you want to pair yourself, somebody that is in that role actively or does done it for a while to get the best information and work together to find a solution.
Jeff Compton [00:59:44]:
Yeah. It. What I. And again, I see what's been beautiful about these conversations and this conferences and training situations like this is because ten years ago, there was nothing out there for advisors. Right. There wasn't even a whole lot of training out there for technicians, but there was nothing for advisors. The advisor role was always like, this was a really good people. Person.
Jeff Compton [01:00:10]:
People trusted that person. People, they had a way. They've got some sales background. Right. And they're. And they're good. They know the soft skills. Now, what I see with different things that are out there now is there's so much training available to service advisors that I have made the statement and I still stand behind it.
Jeff Compton [01:00:29]:
Most shops now, as crazy as it's going to sound, you got a training budget to spend. Look at paying, putting it towards your advisor training, not necessarily your technician training. There's a lot of free, good technician training. You can get that. You can bring your skills up. A lot of that stuff that's available, that tech that advisors need is not still out there yet without, unfortunately, having to pay for it. So I encourage people that are in a shop, and you're like, my advisors are struggling. Get them the training, pay for it, sign them up, get them to do it, reward them for doing it, because it's the back.
Jeff Compton [01:01:06]:
There's always somebody in the back. Normally, we can get through it. We can fix the car. But if you're constantly devaluing because you don't have the. The training that you need on the front counter, that's just a sink and ship in the back, then it doesn't matter what they do. Right. They can't bail the water out fast enough for that analogy. You understand what I mean?
Michael Doherty [01:01:24]:
I do. That is very true. I recently saw a video from a company that's called Shop Marketing Pros and very great company. I actually had the fortune. I was fortunate to work for Kim and Brian back in the day as a service advisor when they had their shop in Apex, North Carolina. And having phone skills is very important because they're a marketing company. And it was very cool video that Brian did. Not too long, I think maybe a day or two ago.
Michael Doherty [01:01:55]:
He said, I may be paraphrasing, but he was basically saying that you could have all the marketing, but unless you've got somebody that's getting those clients in the door, turning over the phone calls, getting them through the door.
Jeff Compton [01:02:08]:
Yes.
Michael Doherty [01:02:09]:
It's worthless, you know, and the phone is really a make it or break it, you know, I've mentioned in the past, smiling through the phone. Right. You know, thank you for calling. How you doing today? I can help you. Hey, thanks for calling. How can I help you out? And, you know, telling somebody, you know, you've. You've called the right shop. We've got the best technicians in town.
Michael Doherty [01:02:28]:
We have the best warranty. We have loaner cars. Or we can get you a shuttle building instant value, you know, and customer service, since COVID occurred, just took a nosedive.
Jeff Compton [01:02:39]:
Yes.
Michael Doherty [01:02:40]:
So many people just got so flat lined, and I don't care and whatever, and it kind of went through a bunch of industries. But this industry is a people industry, and I'm very excited with working with you and Lucas and Braxton and Chris Cotton coach and again, changing the industry and getting it back to where it should be. Very excited about that. But again, for a service advisor, find somebody that you can relate to. If you don't have somebody there, give us a call, drop us a line. We're here to help. And that's what it's about. It's helping, showing that it, you know, I've been in both sides of it where you come in and you can have the greatest day, and then the very next day you get one.
Michael Doherty [01:03:26]:
We'll call it problem, and it just feeds on you and, you know, and. But there's a solution. There's a solution. And talking about it helps as well. And when you're in a shop and there's four or five technicians in the back and there's one or two service advisors up front or maybe one, you kind of feel alone, you know, so it's working through it together, finding solutions, but just super excited to be here at the conference and.
Jeff Compton [01:03:49]:
Yeah, it's a life changing event, isn't it? It really is.
Michael Doherty [01:03:54]:
I told my wife last night, I said, I feel like a kid before Christmas. I really did. I said, I feel like a kid before Christmas. I said, I'm just. I said, I think I went to bed at 11:00 last night. I woke up at, like, four just. And, you know, I'm looking around for, like, the Christmas tree, metaphorically. Like, I was just ready to go.
Jeff Compton [01:04:12]:
Yeah.
Michael Doherty [01:04:13]:
You know, ready to go. I'm sitting in the park lot this morning at 07:30 a.m. i'm watching people filter into the building. Just people watching, just seeing who's coming in, some familiar faces, some not. But just like, just the. It's exciting. It's exciting.
Jeff Compton [01:04:26]:
I tell everybody. The biggest thing that I've noticed in the last year of what I've watched, actually, the last two years of what's going on in this industry, it's like you said after Covid, it's a lot of fear. There's a lot of fear and how, like. And there's a lot of pressure. We're all trying to come back from something. Right. From COVID it sucked financially. Right.
Jeff Compton [01:04:50]:
But there's a fear factor. Fear factor, Joe Rogan, where it's like.
Michael Doherty [01:04:56]:
The chocolate dip spiders.
Jeff Compton [01:04:57]:
Yeah, I'm scared. I'm scared to do this and I'm scared to do that. Right. What we have to remember in this industry is like, the scariest thing is to look back in hindsight and see the solution to the problem and never.
Michael Doherty [01:05:11]:
Have taken it well, that I think the scariest thing is not making changes.
Jeff Compton [01:05:15]:
Yeah.
Michael Doherty [01:05:16]:
You know, expecting a different result, but you're doing the same thing over and over. It's not going to happen. That's insanity.
Jeff Compton [01:05:22]:
Yeah.
Michael Doherty [01:05:23]:
You know, and. And I get it. There's some old school methods that still apply right to. But there's so much if you're open to the learning process. And I totally understand. When I get ready to launch the podcast, the service advisor podcast, I'm going to get people that are going to be pulled toward me, and I'm going to get people that are going to be critics or people that think, I don't need to listen to this. I already know everything. That's fine.
Michael Doherty [01:05:52]:
It's not for everybody. Right, I get that. But the people that I would think are the other, which are the. I'm not going to get anything out of this. Or that person doesn't know what they're talking about. At one point in time, they were the person that did care, and something's happened in their situation that made them either not care or build up a brick wall and think that they're just there for a paycheck. And that's all it is. It's not.
Michael Doherty [01:06:16]:
It's so cool to do it a certain way and take care of your family and take care of your coworkers, and it exists, and it can exist, and it does exist. Maybe you're at the wrong shop. Maybe. Maybe you're not with the right company, but we can help.
Jeff Compton [01:06:34]:
Yeah. I'm excited, dude. I really am. Because it's like, as I keep going and more and more of my platform and I'm starting, like, people have heard me say, you know, my exit plan, hopefully, is to be able to get into an advisor role because physically I don't have ten more years of this. You know, I really don't. Like, I had too many issues. So it's like, am I ready to retire? No. Do I want to walk away from this? No.
Michael Doherty [01:06:58]:
No.
Jeff Compton [01:06:59]:
But I have to. I have to learn. It's just like learning something new again, right? I have to learn how to, like, to transition into that role. And I. I think you're going to be an awesome addition to the family here. I think that it's going to be like, you're going to be able to really show people how to, like, we don't want you to turn your business upside down tomorrow, but I want you to understand that it's like, it's okay to say, you know, it. It's okay to sell yourself. It's okay to value yourself at what it is that you really need it to be.
Jeff Compton [01:07:34]:
That's. That's the key thing. Just value yourself. Don't be scared. Be confident. Be me. I tell everybody that I've ever probably employed or, excuse me. I tried to hope that they would employ me I'm the best tech you've ever seen, am I? No, but I am pretty good.
Jeff Compton [01:07:52]:
Right? So it's a situation of, it's like, I don't exactly say, but I go in there knowing that. It's like I'm going to come in here and I'm going to impress these people. When we have a person at the counter or on the phone, it has to be the same thing. It's not just sales. You have to show the love that you have for what you're doing in your business. You have to share that with them. You have to show them, this is why we cost more. This is why my door rate is higher than theirs is because my technicians are training every month.
Jeff Compton [01:08:22]:
We have more tooling than the next closest competitor even thought of having. This is why, if we don't have that in our brain every day that I am, I'm better than my competition, then we don't portray it. And I hate the idea. I don't even like to think that there's competition because the other shop down the road, I don't really care what he's doing. He's not my competition. Right. I want to be. I'd like to have a good working relationship with everybody, but he's not my competition.
Jeff Compton [01:08:51]:
I'm doing what I do. I have my customers. So when they come in and they're like, hey, you guys are a lot of money. Yeah, we're worth it. And it's a simple conversation as that, and then show them why you're worth it.
Michael Doherty [01:09:04]:
Yeah. Building value.
Jeff Compton [01:09:05]:
Yeah, build the value.
Michael Doherty [01:09:06]:
Yep. Absolutely.
Jeff Compton [01:09:08]:
I want to thank you for coming. I want to thank you for being on here. I'm excited to see your podcast. I'm excited to see what it's going to be. And on a closing, what are you offering to the people and listeners? What's going to make people want to tune in and hear?
Michael Doherty [01:09:23]:
Michael, that's a great question. Chris Cotton, he asked me about a month ago how I would want to be coached or how I'd want to coach people. And I think the real reason is relatability and people tuning in for somebody that's genuine. Yeah, I am who I am, like me or not. I think you'll find that you do like me. And again, just breaking down barriers, finding solutions for service advisors and shops, and just getting to do something new and exciting. And I'm not reinventing the wheel. I'm doing something I've been doing for a while, just doing it in a different role.
Michael Doherty [01:10:11]:
And people tuning in for advice or just maybe thinking about something a different way, you know, looking for opportunities and things. Even if they had a bad day or they had a bad client experience, you know, not necessarily focusing on what went wrong. Where was the lesson in that? Where was the lesson in that? What can I learn from that? Why did this happen? And I've had so much happen to me in my career that it's very likely I'm going to be able to have an honest answer for those questions. And I asked the listeners out there, think about one thing. The service advisors at your shop right now, if there's something, if there's one thing that you could change at the front counter that you could run by management or an owner that you think would benefit the business, what would that be? And why are you so adamant about making that change? Because I feel like we're not heard enough as well from ownership perspective or a management perspective, but we're dealing with the people, so we have to know what we're doing, and you have to give us the confidence to do some things sometimes. I thank you so much for having me on. It's been a pleasure, and I'm looking forward to enjoying the AStA. It's unreal.
Jeff Compton [01:11:27]:
It's a life changing event.
Michael Doherty [01:11:29]:
I literally walked in, walked around, said hi to Kim Walker in one of her classes from shop marketing pros, and I wandered down the hall, and now I'm here talking with you guys, and.
Jeff Compton [01:11:39]:
I'll give you this, a bit of advice, just like you mentioned a few minutes ago. Being genuine is the key to all of this. It really is. Whether you're dealing with a customer or whether you're running a podcast. I'm me. This is me. I'm like this all the time. Right?
Michael Doherty [01:11:52]:
Get that vibe.
Jeff Compton [01:11:53]:
Yeah. And it's. And it's. Sometimes it's hard for an employer to take, sometimes it's hard for. But it's just who it is. It's just. I struggle with people when they say, I didn't know that's what you meant. So my goal always is to make it really clear this.
Jeff Compton [01:12:09]:
I'm very truthful with my words. Very clear, blunt point. So that I want you to understand. I want you to feel when I'm trying to get through, that's it. It just be genuine in life, and it works so much better for everybody. I just want to thank you for being here, man. I'm looking forward to hearing everything you got to say, and you've got my support. Anything you know you're going to get a lot of.
Jeff Compton [01:12:31]:
You're going to have some people that are going to come out of the comments on you and don't worry about it. I'll be there for you.
Michael Doherty [01:12:36]:
I really appreciate that. Thank you so much.
Jeff Compton [01:12:39]:
Thank you. We'll talk to you soon.
Michael Doherty [01:12:40]:
All right.
Jeff Compton [01:12:42]:
Hey, if you could do me a favor real quick and like, comment on and share this episode, I'd really appreciate it. And please, most importantly, set the podcast to automatically download every Tuesday morning. As always, I'd like to thank our amazing guests for their perspectives and expertise, and I hope that you'll please join us again next week on this journey of change. Thank you to my partners in the Asar group and to the change in the industry podcast. Remember what I always say, in this industry, you get what you pay for. Here's hoping everyone finds their missing ten millimeter and we'll see you all again next time.