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Ever wish you had a mentor to help you become who you were meant to be? Crystal Ware is redefining what it means to become your best self, in business, life, and love and sharing everything she she knows to get YOU there faster.
Are you stuck? Feel like you are meant for more but not sure how to breakthrough? Every week, we will explore all of your questions on building a path to true happiness, achieving success and creating our dream life. Brick by brick, we will work through the issues and mindsets that keep us stuck, dive into finding our passion and how to take ACTION. Clarity (vision) + Confidence (Owning your worth) + Courage (to live life on your own terms and become your own CEO) propels you to your destiny. And the good news it: its all within you!
Each week, host, Crystal Ware, will bring you all of the practical wisdom to grow every aspect of your career and life including mindset, vision, goal planning, social media management, financial acumen and so much more. You'll also meet top business leaders, entrepreneurs, mompreneurers and innovative thinkers who invested in themselves and found their way success and happiness by leading on their own terms.
You were made for more, so start living like it today. Join us as we take action, grow together, and get inspired to reach for your dreams.
How to thrive in life and work with ADHD with Patricia Sung {motherhood}
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[00:00:00] Episode of get clear with crystal where today on the show, we have Patricia sung. This is a different format than we usually have, as this is more of a conversation amongst friends, because I've known Patricia for years and we wanted to air this episode on both of our podcasts. So we decided to go with a little bit of a different format.
Patricia is an amazing adult ADHD coach and speaker. She helps moms with kids. ADHD rise above the overwhelm, take control of their time and build a life they absolutely love. So as you can tell, that is so in line with what my goals, what I'm passionate about and what I strive to do. And every day helping women create the lives, whatever that may be doing the things that they love, but living life as an adult with ADHD can be really hard living life as a mom with ADHD can feel absolutely.
It's impossible at times, but what I really liked about talking about this topic is some of the things and the skills that Patricia helps her [00:01:00] clients with are things that all of us can use and implement in our daily lives as busy moms, as busy working professionals. So welcome Patricia to the show and let's dive right in and hear all of the gold that we had to talk about on the show today.
Welcome Patricia. Yes. Which is exciting, right? Because everybody's busy. Your audience is largely either working moms, busy moms, whatever.
Moms, ladies are busy. We have so many things that we have to do. So we are not any different, right? Patricia, we have the same challenges. And so trying to make the best use of our time and get our audiences all this amazing information. Yep. So we're going to attempt to fold the two together and do a double episode where it'll be on both of our podcasts.
So as you listen to this on whichever one you started at, you can cross over and check out the other [00:02:00] podcast and see what great things lie in past episodes. So if you can do like the one sentence introduction, cause like I already did an intro, they already heard all your good stuff, but like in one sentence.
What do you do? I help women achieve whatever their dream life is. So you know, that really looks like something different for everybody. And my goal is to help one believe that it's attainable because I believe it is. And now I want all of you to believe it is too. And so that's what it's about. Just bringing insights and based rooted in wealth and health.
You can't have one without the other. And what about you? I know all about you. We have known each other for several years, actually, everybody. So I know all about Patricia, but how do you summarize what you do for people? So I'm an ADHD coach for moms. So there's a lot of resources out there for parenting kids.
I actually help. Mom. So when mom is struggling with ADHD, how do we get your life together so that you can actually enjoy it, which is [00:03:00] why I felt like we were a really great pairing because I want moms to know that they can live well with ADHD. It doesn't have to be this, like, awful cloud that hangs over your head all the time.
Like, is it hard? Yes, it is. But we don't have to live in suffering, in burnout, in overwhelm. You can figure out the ways that work for you to be able to be really successful. And I don't even want to say like in spite of ADHD. It's like with your ADHD, you can be really successful with your ADHD. Yeah. And I really love that, Patricia, because I think it crosses over for even women that may be undiagnosed or they don't.
Maybe truly have ADHD, but the world that we're living in now is so busy and chaotic and crazy. We're inundated with information and activities and schedules that like, I think the average mom has some of those feelings and challenges regardless of whether they have ADHD. So I think these are going to be tools and resources that could be useful for everybody.
Yeah, and when we talk about like the things that really work for [00:04:00] ADHD, a lot of those tenants still follow for everyone. One of my favorite questions is like, how do you make this easier for yourself? That question works for everybody. There's always ways to make something easier for yourself. And a lot of times we've just done it that way forever, or because our mom did it that way, or because our boss told us to do it that way.
And when we critically thinking, look at it and say, like, how do I make this easier for me? Anybody can use those kinds of strategies to make life better. Because we don't have to suffer as moms. We have too much to do. There's too much going on. We're trying to help all the people. We don't need to do it from a place of pain, suffering, martyrdom.
Absolutely not. I couldn't agree more. The other thing I wanted to make sure in case people were questioning is I know you primarily work with moms that have some form of ADHD or other issues in that realm, but do you also help moms with kids that have ADHD that may be struggling? Yes, because most of the time, if you have ADHD, there's a pretty good [00:05:00] chance your kids do too.
So if you have ADHD, the chance that your kids have it is 50 to 70%, which is way more than the average. They think it's somewhere like five. I think it's closer to 10 percent of people who have it. So if you have it, your kid probably does too. Got it. Well, I think that's really helpful because I know it seems like pretty prevalent, especially amongst little boys in elementary school.
And that can be challenging also, just how do you handle a child that may be struggling and how that wears on people. So yeah, excited to dive in and talk about all these amazing things with you. Me too. And I think it's so hard as a mom because you always want your kid to do well. And when your kid is struggling and you don't know why, and you can't figure out the solutions, it pretty much takes over your focus.
And all of a sudden everything else falls to the back burner and you're like, I got to help my kid. So to me, like the two go hand in hand is that I'm here to help. Mom, but like very aware that when your kids struggling, all of a sudden that's moved up to first place on the priority list. So, yeah, well, and I think they go hand in [00:06:00] hand because it's like, as a mom, what are the solutions?
How do you parent a child that is struggling or, you know, has different emotional needs and like, what are those tools and resources? And those are, you know, it's not like we have training books that we come with, you Yeah. So I guess let's go ahead. Like, I'll just jump in there of like, when your kid is struggling, like, what do you look for?
And specifically, like, when it comes to ADT, there's so many different ways that it shows up for people. So like the way it's going to show up in one person is going to be totally different than how it shows up in another person. There's a lot of themes, but there's not like some like, One telltale sign of like, if you just have this one thing, you know, it's like, no, it's a complex neurodevelopmental disorder and it shows up differently for everyone.
So, like, we all know the classic little kid who's bouncing off the walls, doesn't pay attention is, you know, driving everyone bonkers around them. And then we're no, we're like, oh, that kid [00:07:00] obviously has ADHD. But where we don't often notice it is in the more inattentive side. So the students who are doodling or daydreaming, and especially you'll see this tends to be more in women, but not necessarily like, it's not to say that there aren't little boys who also fall in the inattentive category, which means those little boys also, they grew up to be adults.
So this is like across the board. people who are more on the inattentive side of ADHD are the doodlers, the dreamers, but there's also the side of like the chatty Cathy's, the perfectionists, the overachievers. ADHD doesn't side with certain traits. It's not only for people who are rich or poor or smart or not that smart.
Like there's no, um, no group of people who are safe. I'm not having ADHD. So it's like, if you're a. Smart person, you figure out the coping mechanisms that work for you and you figure out how to make it work. You get by and usually where we see it pop up is when there's been either some kind of hormonal change.
[00:08:00] So we see it in like when girls get their periods when you become a mom. So much lessons when you're going through menopause for boys in puberty. So you see it in these hormonal changes, but also when you have a large life change. Yeah. So it can be things like when you have a baby, all of a sudden your life is very different or you move from high school to college because in high school, things are very prescribed for you.
There's a lot of instruction, first period, second period, third period, you go to college and it's like, did you show up for 9 a. m class? No one's going to check like there's a huge shift in like the structure and how your life is running in a new job. A lot of times we'll see it like elementary to middle or middle to high school.
A lot of times it'll show up around like third grade. That's when reading starts to get hard for kids because that's when we move from books that have like, you know, one or two lines on a page. There's some pictures to give you clues. And all of a sudden you're now in chapter books that are full page of text and not a lot of pictures.
So these are the times where we'll see it. pop up more. It's not to say that you wouldn't notice it at other times, but that's where we start to see, like, all of a sudden, [00:09:00] either I'm struggling or my kid is struggling in these patterns are usually when it pops up for people. So it's not just the people who can't sit still.
It's the ones who are over thinkers. It's the ones who have intrusive thoughts. It's the ones who are anxious. It's The ones that are struggling with depression, like there's just so much more to it than just, Hey, I can't pay attention in class. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, I wanted to dive in to one question that I think is the hard to answer question, but specifically with kids, I know you have resources for moms that want to, you know, get their life together, get more organized, have an easier way and don't necessarily want medication.
What is your feeling about medication for kids? So generally speaking, they recommend that you don't start medication until after five. So when they're, when kids are younger than five, they generally won't recommend medication. The way I look at medication is that first of all, it's one tool. It's only one tool.
You have to [00:10:00] have all the other pieces in place to make the most difference. So even if we sort out the medicine, there's still a lot of other skills that we need to have. Like there's a saying, pills don't give skills. Like just because you have the medicine that works for you, doesn't mean that you then know how to like organize a research paper or you know how to clean your bedroom.
The pills don't give you skills. What it does is it creates an environment where it is now. easier and not easier for everyone else, easier for you, hopefully leveling the playing field. So something that was really difficult for you before is now easier so that it's not quite as difficult as it was, but it's not going to be as easy for somebody who doesn't have ADHD.
So we're just evening the playing field out. And so it's just one tool, but given that like it's an extremely helpful tool and my like blanket advice, and it's different for everyone. And I can't say like your family might be very anti medicine and be like, well, this is it. Take this with a grain of salt is that medicine is a really, really helpful tool.
And most people [00:11:00] don't go find this very helpful tool until the doo doo has hit the fan. And now you're trying to fix everything else that's on fire and find the right medicine. And that's a lot to handle at the same time. So if you have the option to do it earlier, I would say, try the medicine, figure out what works for you.
And if you decide it's not for you, Cool. But you've got it in your back pocket to know this medicine works for me. This dose works for me, or this medicine works for my kid. This dose works for my kid. I understand how the insurance works and you have that tool sitting there. And if you feel like it's not needed at that time, great, but you have it there.
The problem is it's a really long process to get the diagnosis, find the right doctor, get all the insurance stuff worked out. Like by the time you get through all that and you start even testing different medicines, it's been several months. While things have been on fire and you're trying to help your kid, it's a lot on your patience.
It's really frustrating. It's hard. So knowing that if there's like a way you could start that process [00:12:00] earlier and get your kid the tool they need, even if you're not using it right now, that's fine. You have it there. Because the thing is, like, if you realize your kid has ADHD in second grade and they're doing all right, like, it's not great, but we figured out it's working, lovely.
But the problem is when they go from fifth grade to sixth grade and then the doo doo hits the fan, You're starting from ground zero, whereas if you already know my kid does better in the Adderall family versus the Ritalin family, or I know they do better with this extended release, or they do better with this brand, like, because unfortunately they're all different, which is really annoying.
Like, it's a lot of trial and error to find the right one. So then when your kid goes to sixth grade and they're struggling, you can be like, cool, we already have a base knowledge and it's going to be a lot easier for us to find the right medicine that they're going to need now, which will be different as they grow.
They might need like a higher dose or something. And they may not. Side note, like ADHD medicine is not based on like your age. It's not based on weight. Like you give your kids Tylenol a certain amount for their like weight. And that's not how it works. So some people need a little bit. Some people need a whole lot.
It has nothing to do on their size, age. Anything like that. So it's like, if you have that base level [00:13:00] of knowing, it's so much easier to figure it out when they really need it. That's the hard part of like, when people start trying and they're like, well, my kid's failing seventh grade and they don't have any friends.
And, and, and, and, and then like, and now we're trying to test medicines. I'm like, woo, buckle up. We're in for a ride. We got a lot going on. We want to figure that out, but like, the medicines take time to sort out. It's, unfortunately, they have tests that they're running on trying to figure out, like, there's a way to know.
But unfortunately, those tests aren't super accurate. So for some people, they give great information. And for some people, they don't. So it's like, yeah, I hope they figure out that technology. That would be lovely if they had that. That was like more like surefire. But like, it's hard. And like, even now with all the medication shortages, like, I know what medicine works for me, now I can't find it.
Well now, I have to call the pharmacy and see what they have in stock, and be like, does that one work for me? I don't know. It's like playing craps. Like, let's roll the dice and see what happens. It's this like, rigmarole of a dance every time I go to get my medicine every month. And, you know, I'll find one that works.[00:14:00]
I'm like, cool. And they're like, oh, it's out of stock. And then I try another one. I'm like, well, that one didn't really work. It had like a kind of a crash at the end of the day. So let me try this one. It's just, that's really hard. So if you can sort that out when it's not dire, it's so much easier than trying to do it.
in there. So moral of the story, I think everyone should try it. Know if it works for you because some people it doesn't help. It's a small percentage, but it's something like 15 percent of people don't have any assistance by medication, but like know if it helps have some background of understanding what works for you so that when you need it, it's there.
Yeah, I think that's helpful for people to know because it's obviously a struggle for you as an adult to consider, should I take a medication? Should I try something? Then obviously you layer that on to wanting to make the best decisions for your children and that it's, you know, it can be very stressful for people.
So what do you see is the biggest stressor or the biggest conflict with moms that have ADHD and also are struggling with a child with ADHD? Sure. It is that when you are trying to assist somebody who [00:15:00] also has a spicy brain and you have a spicy brain. I love spicy brain. I like, this is a great way to describe it.
My friend, Mary Van Geffen, she's a hoot. You should go look her up. She calls them the spicy ones. Yeah, she, I think she trademarked it. It's a, it's her phrase, um, when you have a spicy brain and you're trying to also wrangle more spicy brains, like it's hard to wrangle one spicy brain. But when you have one spicy brain trying to wrangle another spicy brain, it's a bit of a circus.
And when we're trying to teach our kids things that we don't really do well ourselves, it's really frustrating. Because a lot of times when you go to the doctor and you get your kid diagnosed, they're like, here's what your kid needs. And they list out all these things that you're like, I don't know how to do those things, but you want me to do them for somebody else.
Like what? So like, that's why I teach moms the skills that I do, because we're the ones expected to be able to teach our kids the things that we ourselves are struggling. I mean, the apple didn't fall far from the tree. And so we have to be centered and grounded and know what works for us and have [00:16:00] that toolkit built for ourselves for us to be able to do that for somebody else.
Yeah. And a lot of times as moms, we'll be like, no, I'll be fine. Let me just figure this out for my kid. And it's like, I understand that as a mom, I know you're like, but my kid's more important. I got to help them first. But it's like the whole oxygen mask. Like when you're on the airplane, they're always like, especially I fly Southwest, the flight attendant literally always comes over and she's like, you have to put your mask on first.
And she makes you give the like head nod. If you can't function, you can't teach someone else to function. It's literally not possible. And somehow we think as moms, we're like, it's cool. I'm juggling all the things. Sure. I'll figure it out. Like when you take care of you, that ripple out effect makes it so much better for your kids.
So it can't just be, I'm going to do everything for my kid and I'll figure myself out later. It's so much like, it's like swimming upstream. Well, that makes me think of I've taken to writing. My husband always does morning drop off and I've taken in the last few months to going with them. And so we listen to music, the kids love to jam.
And there's this new song, if you guys haven't listened to [00:17:00] it called Sunday Best by Surfaces, which I thought was a silly name for a band, but apparently the Gen Z folks love that name, the Surfaces. Anyway, part of it's like, Always blessed. Never stressed. And I was like, guys, is this what mom needs to take in a little more?
Like I am blessed. Now I need to not be stressed. I'm running around like a crazy person. That's just like my personality. And that is what kids teach you is like, It is a mirror to you of like, okay, you want them to be relaxed. You want them to be calm. I'm not a calm person. That's just not my personality.
And I've definitely noticed it and try to tell myself like not stressed. And so now we listen to the song all the time and I'm like, Oh, this is a good reminder for me to start the day, like take a deep breath, not going to get all wound up. And if you want the kids to be, you know, more Zen, you have to be more Zen.
They are going to learn from what you're doing. That's the biggest shift that I've looked at making for myself is like, [00:18:00] you know, and what's even crazier is my parents weren't stressed. My parents weren't running around like, Oh, we're in a hurry. We're did it. In fact, even now, when my parents are over there, like, Why are you in such a hurry, Crystal?
And I'm like, I don't know. Why am I? Why is it like a big deal? Like we got to get everywhere fast. And so I think that's good advice. I mean, it's just such a good analogy to say we have to put our oxygen mask on first and that they're going to learn what we teach them. I think it's important to know, like, if your personality is big energy, go get them.
Like, we're not trying to squash that. What we're trying to do is make that feel easier for you. Like, you can be big energy and not stressed. Right. You can go hard and not be stressed about it. And a lot of times we just smoosh all those things together into one category and you, you don't have to, like, cause I am a very like, Type a, I'm an Enneagram one.
Like I like things to be the way I want them to be. And like, I'm not trying to change who I am, but I don't [00:19:00] want my stress level to be embedded into my children. So how do I make sure that I teach them excellence and also like, but we don't have to be running around like a chicken with our head cut off and screeching at everybody.
Like it's a hard balance to learn. And as moms. When we're not taking care of ourselves, that stress level just is constantly butting up against everything. Because there's always another permission slip to fill out. There's always another thing after school. There's always another, like, nap time looming.
Like, if I don't get this kid to bed, then we know it's going to ruin the afternoon. Like, there's always something else coming as moms. So it's on us to drive the environment. Like, that's really like why I came back to working with moms after teaching. Like, I always thought I would go back to the classroom after my kids were older.
And I now know from teaching, it's like, I mean, I have your kid for 45 minutes, or if they're in elementary school all day, like in the school hours. But like, They're still home with you more than they're with me. So when [00:20:00] mom is in a good place, the entire family can be in a good place. But when mom's not well, the whole family is struggling and it's obvious.
Well, I wanted to go back to something you said, because I wonder if this is something you've talked about before, or something that other people have had difficulty with. But you said you're an Enneagram one. You like things how you like them. You like things orderly. Did you struggle with, as the kids got older, you know, obviously they have their own personality.
They have their own way. Did you struggle with just the house in general of like, No, no, we don't do it this way. No, no, we don't put that there of like having not just a husband, but now you have multiple children and you can't control the whole house. Was that a struggle for you? For sure. And it's often that I have to ask myself, like, does this really matter?
Yes. Am I teaching my kids how to do this well? In a way that works for them, or am I trying to smash like my opinion on them of how this should go? Because I have my two boys. One is definitely more like [00:21:00] me. He looks just like my husband, but his personality is me. And my other one is so like happy go lucky.
Everything's great. He's the one who like, as soon as he sees that you're a little bit sad, he's the one who runs up and it's like, I love you so much. You're the best mommy there ever was. Like, he's ready to like, cheer you up. And he's not an organized person, but he's like the cheerleader of the family.
And I constantly have to tell myself like, what works for me is not going to work for him because that's not his priority. His priority is not that everything needs to be orderly. So when I. Start getting over the top. I remind myself to like, look at my kids in their eyes and like, really be present in the moment and be like, Patricia, does this really matter?
And like, I wish I could say I always remember sometimes I don't, I wish I had remembered an hour ago and like, that's on me and I'm working on that. But as soon as I can remind myself, like, what really matters here? Is this important? Then I can circle back to like, the goal of I'm trying to raise them to be great people, not [00:22:00] necessarily to do it exactly like I do it.
Yeah, the reminder I have for myself is. We want to be happy and enjoying what we're doing. Like whatever that is, that is always my goal in life. And that's still, you know, the kind of thing that I want to teach other women. It's like, how do you create a life that you love and that you enjoy? That is the barometer for me is like, are we having fun?
Are we having a good time? So my oldest son, who struggles with, I would say, emotional, regulation related to ADHD. He's very organized. He is on top of his stuff for the most part, but emotional regulation. And that's what I talk to him about all the time is like, is this fun? Are you feeling happy? If it's not, why are you letting these feelings and these negative thoughts on things that really don't matter in the big picture?
And that's hard for somebody that doesn't have a worldview, like an adult worldview, right? And I remember when I was a kid and little things bother you. But that's the thing that like, when I'm Getting spun up about something, you know, it's almost always trivial, right? It's like, we're not getting upset about the [00:23:00] world falling down or my house is literally on fire.
We're getting upset about dumb things in reality that are just started like this. And then it's like the tornado spiral to the top. And it's like, am I about to let this impact my day overshadow what we're doing? Does this really matter? And it always comes back to me about like the happiness. Like I want to be happy and happiness is a choice.
Truly, we can be grateful and we can feel happiness even when things are not going our way. Yeah. And I think emotion regulation is like part of ADHD. That's the most difficult and the part that's not talked about, I guess it's talked about the least. Like when we kick into gear, when we're upset, it's really hard to turn off that train.
Like it is. Blazin at 700 miles an hour and the skills that I'm teaching and coaching, it's like we back up to like, you didn't just flip a switch something happened earlier in the day that like pushed you a little bit, something else pushed a little bit, something else pushed a little bit and when we have ADHD, we don't notice as we're moving through levels like 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, [00:24:00] 6, 7, even 8, we really don't notice that things are starting to go wrong until like, Okay.
Nine, nine, ten. And so when we can clue back into ourselves and notice, like, what does a three feel like? How do I know I'm getting bothered or upset or frustrated when it's like level three or four? Because I can do something about it when it's at level three or four. I can give myself space to go like, Hey, I'm going to go step outside for a sec, or, you know, do something fun, turn on the dance music with your kids.
And that will change the environment and change your attitude. It's really hard to change when we're at eight, but when we have ADHD, we tend not to notice any of those beginning numbers. So one of the skills we can learn with ADHD is how do I know myself better? What are those little things? Like, like right now we had a banana with fruit flies and we're trying to get these stupid fruit flies out of the kitchen.
It's like these little fruit flies. Oh my God. It's fruit fly time. I, I feel you. I have a trick for that. I'll tell you later. Okay, good. Because we've tried, I've, I was on good housekeeping. com [00:25:00] yesterday looking up 17 ways to get, catch the fruit flies. And so far all of them are zero, zero for zero on the fruit flies or a zero for 20.
I've counted zero fruit flies, but It's like those little fruit flies are the things that are bothering us all day long. And yeah, you can deal with fruit flies number one through 47 and all of a sudden fruit fly 48, I should have put a different number, is like, I can't take it anymore. But that's because we didn't realize that we were getting bothered so much by all those things and the cumulative effect.
means that now at bedtime we're yelling at everybody. Yep. But if we had taken a few minutes for ourselves before the kids got off the bus, instead of running around furiously, you know, rage cleaning, because we realized we didn't get enough stuff done today, then we may have had capacity to get through.
The rest of the night, but we can't do that unless we understand like ourselves better and understanding what is using a lot of our energy, what is using a lot of our emotions and cluing into those so that it's not volcano disaster [00:26:00] tornado at the end. And that just made me think of something, Patricia, that I think is an interesting shift for a lot of working moms too.
So, If you have a lot of your audience that are working moms, what I have also noticed in the transition since COVID and I've shifted from being primarily working with people at office, even if I didn't have a long commute, but working here in my office and then, you know, usually working up until the kids get off the bus, you don't have a space, you don't have a time.
And I think that can be impactful too is like, no matter what, how your day is going, like I'm a positive person. I usually, you know, just have fun. I enjoy what I'm doing, but there are always a little annoyances along the way that you just take in stride. It's no big deal, especially if you're home.
Primarily by yourself and you don't have anybody else to really get ramped up with, but then to your point, you may not have noticed that you are getting slight frustrations that build up and then your kids come home and you know, it's chaos or whatever is going on. It all of a [00:27:00] sudden you're like over the top and that is what I've realized can be hard for me.
And I'm sure that a lot of other moms are struggling with that is like, how do you give yourself just a little bit of a break? Walk outside, you know, ground into the earth or whatever it is that works for you and just have that separation. But I would imagine that a lot of other working moms that have gone remote, that can be a challenge too, because you don't realize what that little drive commute zone out, listen to music and how that kind of just gets you in a better headspace before you get home.
And then as I call it, the second job begins. I don't know about you, but I thought when the kids were little and our kids went to preschool together, guys, I thought. That things would get easier when they went to elementary school. You didn't have to deal with nap time. You didn't have to deal with other things like that, but their schedules are crazy.
So it's like literally a second job at 3 p. m. Yeah. I think COVID really highlighted that where we all went from like you, wherever you were, you had that space to move. From work time to mom mode. [00:28:00] And I think like this is also the reason that being a stay at home mom is so hard, is because you're in mom slash work mode all day.
It doesn't end. There is no transition time. And if your kids are in school, it's like you're still, you're in just a different version of mom mode. And now you're in a new version of mom mode when they come home. It's like, there's not that like. space for your brain to be like, okay, now I'm shifting. And I think back to like when our kids were in preschool, the schedule is like nine to 12 or you could stay until two.
It feels like this minuscule amount of time that they're at preschool. It's like by the time you drop them off and you try to go get a bunch of stuff done, it feels like immediately you're going to pick them up again. Again, there's like no transition. It feels like that time just evaporated. Yeah. And now I'm back to trying to juggle keeping people alive and doing all the things.
And so when we don't give ourselves that space. It's just constant. And that's where the burnout comes from for a lot of us. And I don't know about you, but I definitely, and I was working at that time. So it was my nanny doing that, but she would joke. Um, and she's [00:29:00] definitely not in a hurry girl. She is like life is coming at my pace and that's how it goes.
And I, honestly, I always looked at that, like, I need more of that. This is a good feel, but she'd be like, Oh, Ms. Crystal, I cannot do that between nine and 12 picking up the kids. I was like, sure, that's three hours. That's a lot of time. But because I wasn't doing it, I didn't realize how tricky that was at all.
But I did have the comparison guilt of like, you know, you're making it look so easy. Why did these other moms who I've always recognized, even as a working mom, I always recognized that at least for me, staying at home would have been harder. That would have been a more challenging role for me. But I looked at these moms who had this more challenging job in my mind and thought they're making it look so easy.
It just looks so natural. They don't have a break from their kids all day, but they seem just so relaxed and so easy. And I think we need to get away from that too, because we don't really know what's going on back there. You know, we don't know if they're one meltdown away from, [00:30:00] you know, ripping their hair out, which I definitely would have been, I would have definitely been more.
I don't know. God bless you people that stay at home with their children. I, that would have been the hardest job for me. Yeah. I did it for a while and I was like, this is not for me. It is hard because you're the one driving the schedule too. It's all the. Yeah. Okay. I'm like, I won't get on a tangent. So I'm like, I still have questions for you.
So yes, let's go. Let's go. Okay. So one of the things we had chatted about before, then we were like, Ooh, what should we talk about? Is that like a lot of times. Women who have ADHD are often people pleasers, and we don't want to rock the boat. Or we tend to be very much rocking the boat. We are the bull in the china shop kind of people.
And, but either way, like, when you're in a work setting, both of these extremes are hard to deal with when it comes to, like, interacting with your boss or having hard conversations. And so it feels like there's a lot of, like, miscommunications and people are upset. And a lot of times it. Women with ADHD, especially when you don't know and you're not diagnosed, you're like, I don't [00:31:00] understand why this keeps going poorly.
Why does this keep happening? You start to get the feeling of like, is it me? Because I keep having the same issue with different people, different bosses, or the same boss over and over again. And so what I wanted to like, jump into is like, look at both sides of the coin here. Being somebody who's a people pleaser and doesn't want to rock the boat, and also somebody who says it like they think.
And then get some flack for that. When we're in a work setting, or if you're not working, like, it could be in a volunteer job that you're doing, like, when you're having a conversation with somebody who is in some, like, position of authority, how can we have these tough conversations that, like, we really don't want to have, but we need to have?
Yeah, too big. I can give an example. No. And I, I can have an example for the latter as a start. So for your audience who may not know, I'm a lawyer by background. I worked in fortune 500 as a manager. I've been through leadership development. I've helped women have hard conversations on how to get a raise, how to position their expertise, all those things internally [00:32:00] to drive their careers forward in whatever manner they want to get to.
And so I have been the latter. A lot of times. And I remember specifically having, I was reporting directly to the CFO of a fortune 50 actually. And he told me one time, like, you know, Crystal, we got some poor feedback about you. And I was pretty sure I knew the conversation that led to this. And I was thinking, first of all, to myself, they're like, why is this other grown man complaining about me?
Like what a sensitive Sally. But to what we were talking about earlier, like you. Patricia like things to have things right and you want things done the right way. And when you are working for a company, you want to have the best interest of the company at heart. And that's what I was doing. And I was like, honestly, a little put out that they would complain to me because I wouldn't give them the answer they wanted to hear.
That was really what the crux of the conversation was. They wanted some advice. They wanted to hear something specific and I was not going to [00:33:00] say it because I simply did not agree with it. It wasn't going to be the best for the company. It wasn't what I personally believed and you're not going to bend me.
You're not going to bend me. And so I might've gotten a little, you know, flabbergasted or frustrated and that came through. So thankfully, I had enough. Flout with the company with my boss. Everybody knew me and knew that anytime I got animated in a conversation, it was because I very strongly believed in what I was saying.
So that was the end of the conversation. But I took it back as a person that likes personal growth, personal development, wanting to better myself. And you said, you know, that we got the bull in the China swap and the people pleaser. I'm not really a people pleaser, but I do care about people liking me.
And if people say they really don't care, I think that's a one in a million person. I think most people do care if other people like them. To some degree. And so that kind of bothered me. Like, why am I being misperceived as like, whatever they said? Of course, he didn't tell me exactly what they said, but clearly it was negative.
And why would having this, you know, [00:34:00] frictional conversation leave somebody with a negative opinion about me when we simply just didn't agree? And so I took that in and thought about it, and then I took it into how I was going to be a leader and how I had to talk to interact with many different personalities.
And so what I would say on that is, it really led to eye opening to how I had been for most of my life, which. That's my natural personality. When you get into a broader sphere, a bigger company, you are going to work with a lot of different people. And it's the same and can be analogized with having children.
You're not going to have children that operate the same. We cannot have the same conversations in the same manner with different people. We have to be aware enough of how somebody is leaving clues in the conversation that they're not feeling comfortable. They're not taking it the way you're. Meaning it.
And so communication is a two way street. And so what I encourage people is to step back. You know, if you have to take a deep breath, but somebody Oh, sorry, I've got [00:35:00] somebody walked into my office. Let me put you on hold for a second. Get a hold of yourself. And I never crossed the line of like yelling at anybody.
I would never do anything unprofessional. I have seen people do that though. But what is the pace in your voice? You know, you have a naturally slower cadence when you're talking than I do. That alone, me talking like this, and people have asked me if I'm a New Yorker. No, I'm from Texas. But those kind of things are small things that you can work on along the way that will make a huge difference in how you're perceived.
If you can take your voice down a little bit, even if you're upset, you're going to come across kinder. Gentler, more willing to negotiate, more willing to come to the same place. It does not mean, and I want to be very clear about this, it does not mean you have to agree with people on things that you do not agree with to come across as a good, genuine, nice person.
But when we think about a few communication skills that we can do, that's where I say, you know, the pause is important. The cadence of your voice is important and the [00:36:00] tone of your voice is important. And so if we can focus on those three things, I think we're going to be taken a little bit better. And it is unfortunate that as women, we could have the same way of speaking as a man, and we're going to be perceived negatively.
It is just a fact. I don't let it bother me. It is what it is. We have to modulate, we have to regulate, and that's the way it is. On the other side, because I've seen extremely smart and intelligent women who are people pleasers, and they are willing. I don't even say willing. It's like they don't want to, but they end up just agreeing with people, and I think that can be difficult if you're looking to be promoted, have leadership, get certain kind of special projects or otherwise, because it subtly says to people in the organization that you're a little bit of a doormat.
And that you may not be willing to follow through and that is even more difficult for women when you want to get along, you want to be a people pleaser, you [00:37:00] want for things to be happy, you know, and collegial and you don't want to rock the boat that could be even more difficult. And I think you just need to remind yourself that you're there to do a job, that you're there to work together, and that.
Generally, people are not going to be upset if you disagree in a professional way and you explain your positioning. And I think a lot of times that comes from a position of confidence and feeling that you really are the expert on what you're talking about. But I actually do think it's more difficult to overcome the people pleasing.
I would say for me, I've had to do a lot of work in therapy to realize that I would change what I was doing because I was trying to control what the other person thought of me. And so I was doing what I thought they wanted. And I didn't realize that that's what I was doing, like, deep down in the depths of childhood.
Like, and so now that I've like worked, uh, working through that, I don't know that I fully mastered it. But realizing that, like, I don't [00:38:00] have control over what other people think of me, no matter what I say. I can't control what they think of me because that comes from their perspective. It comes from their history, their experiences.
So that's not anything that I can control. So if I can't control what they're going to think of me, then I may as well be me because me changing to do something else still isn't going to get me the result I want. And so when we practice that in like some low stakes ways, like I used to do really like silly things.
Even like if my food wasn't quite right, I'd be like, it's fine, I'll just eat it, I don't want to bother. Like, no. Practicing like if you order something in a restaurant and it's wrong, saying, I'm so sorry. You know, I ordered this with no cheese, would you please bring me one with no cheese? Or even like, you're at the coffee counter and you're like, excuse me, could I have a straw?
Like, some people won't even interrupt the person to get a straw. Like, those little ways that you are practicing inconveniencing somebody, quote unquote inconveniencing them, and seeing like, it's fine, that barista was totally happy to [00:39:00] get you a straw, it did not bother them. Yes, maybe the waiter rolled his eyes when he got to the back, but like, if you really don't want cheese, it's okay, you can say you don't want cheese.
That is a skill we may have to practice to be able to, like, work through that. And it's just scary for those of us who have always opted for, I'd rather shrink back so that there's not conflict. Yeah. And it can be hard. I mean, I have some very good friends that are non confrontational and I joke to them about it sometimes, or I'll know that if we're about to have a moment and I push a little bit, like, Yeah.
It's okay. We don't, we're going to still be friends. We don't have to agree on everything, but those are the people that it makes me really upset to see, because I see them in the corporate sphere getting dumped on, you know, the ones that are sometimes very, very brilliant, but they stay to the background.
They are taking on a lot of work. Sometimes they're taking on a lot of work for a boss that is getting paid double and they're not doing anything because they're giving all their work to this person. And that's, I mean, at the end of the day, it [00:40:00] is what is your personality and what is a fit for you. But if you're looking to move ahead, you have to have a voice of some sort.
You have to work on a team and you have to be okay having a little bit of conflict. And I think those are great examples of how you can practice that. Because those are everyday things that we can just work on to see it's not a big deal. I'm just going to speak up for myself. It doesn't mean I'm getting angry or being mean, just advocating for yourself.
And that is what we as women need to do on a regular basis to continue to propel ourselves forward.
Okay. So Crystal, if we take that like tough conversation stuff that we just talked about and apply it to like, I want to ask for a raise at work. What would be like your top three things of like how to approach that conversation as somebody who is a confident person or someone who tends to lean towards people placing like either way, how do you approach that conversation to say, I deserve more money.
Yeah. So, I mean, I think it's always good to set a few minutes in person, just walking by your boss's office saying, Hey, I have an important conversation I want to [00:41:00] have with you. Let me know if you have a few minutes today or tomorrow. If you are the more reserved people, pleaser type, maybe you feel more comfortable sending an email and saying, can we have a few minutes?
That's okay. I think regardless of which side you're on, it's important to have a few notes with you. So like if it's just three or four bullets, even more so for a more reserved person, they might be more confident to have those. But for somebody that is extremely big personality, the bull in China shop, I think the one thing that you're going to have to be conscientious of is you may not get an answer right then and you need to.
Realize that it's not going to benefit you to push, push, push in that moment. You can continually subtly push for the background over the next couple of weeks, months, how are things, what will I need to do? But it's more about asking the questions. If you don't get the answer you want right away, what are the followups?
What can I do? How can I position myself? You're asking for clues for them to give you clues on what they want to see so that [00:42:00] they can advocate. On your behalf, um, it's usually not going to be the next manager's ultimate decision. If you're a more soft spoken, um, non conflict type personality, you're going to need to have more data so that you feel confident so that it's not really a conflict.
You need to prove to yourself there is no conflict here. These are the things that I have achieved. I deserve this. Why would there be conflict when I have these facts in front of me to show you? And that can be facts of what you've achieved, the projects you've taken on, the time you've put in, it could be a result you've driven of, you know, I sold this new client and I brought in a 10 million for the company and, or it could be market driven.
You know, my position I've noticed is being elevated and other companies, and I need to also be elevated. So I stay on par. These are all factual things that are pretty difficult for another person to argue with. And so there is no conflict. Okay. If you come from [00:43:00] that place of like, this is uncomfortable to me, but there is really no true conflict, then you can have a little bit more comfort in entering the conversation.
Do you recommend having that conversation just around like the, you know, annual review time or is this something that we should be talking about like throughout the year? I'll give you the great lawyerly answer. It depends. It's always easier to get a raise during the annual review time, but I say, start the conversation.
If you know you're going to want more than a 2, 3, 4 percent, the average, and you feel you deserve and you have the support for that, start two or three months before, because usually the. Formal processes like four to six weeks, and they kind of already know. So give your boss the opportunity to align things behind the scenes that will give you the best chance.
And that's going to be doing it a little bit more in advance. However, if you are about to look for a new position within the company and you know, you [00:44:00] want a significant bump or. If you've just finished a project or brought on a new client, maybe those are good times and those would be off cycle raises.
If there is an opportunity and you feel that you deserve something more, take the opportunity when it presents itself. There's no, you know, riding a high wave of an achievement is always going to be a great time, especially if that achievement internally brought in money, then it's like, okay, this is a good time to ask.
So I, I say it always depends. You may talk about it. at the annual raise. But hey, know what? If you just brought us to a new level of achievement internally, even if you got your 4 percent raise in January, that doesn't mean you can't deserve to get another one. So there are no hard and fast rules. I mean, big companies have harder and faster rules.
There can always be massaged, but there's no harder, fast rules on income and salary and negotiating. So don't hinder yourself with those. If you feel in your heart, you deserve it. Find a way to [00:45:00] make a plan to get it. And I think, like, when we bring ADHD in the mix, a lot of times, like, we're not as aware of it because it's not front and center.
But then when, you know, raise time comes up, then we're like, Ooh, I need to ask for a raise. But a lot of times, like you were saying, there's that, you got a lag time. And if you're in the annual review season, a lot of times the managers have already done they're like shifting and moving and wiggling around before they have those conversations.
So you want to bring it to their attention before they start allocating all their funds, because if they only have so much to give, which they probably do, you want them to know and be reminded of all your achievements before they start thinking about that, because it's a lot harder for them to change things after the fact than if they've already had the meetings and done the organizing and know like who's getting what raises, and then you bring it up and they're like, well, but we already, Decided that like three weeks ago.
So if you want to do this, like, okay, let's pause right now and say like, when is your review season? Like when does that happen? And put a reminder on your calendar for like two months before [00:46:00] that to send that email or have that, you know, pop in the office. Hey, I want to talk to you when you have a sec with sufficient time to have that conversation before those conversations are happening behind closed doors.
And I would say to the ADHD brain, don't overthink it. I know it's so, I mean, I literally overthink what kind of coffee I'm going to have. So I am not, this is like pot and kettle, right? I'm telling you this. I know it's not always easy, but don't overthink it. Just do it. Like Nike says, let them overthink it.
You present the facts of what, how amazing, how brilliant you are and let them figure out the rest. You know, don't talk yourself out of it. And so if it's on your heart and it's on your mind, also don't wait a month because you're going to talk yourself out of it. So we've got to understand how our brains work, how we are negotiating with our own internal selves and get beyond that.
And I think that comes from just doing it and not giving ourselves too much time to get scared, to talk ourselves out of it, to compare ourselves to our colleagues. [00:47:00] You know, it's not you versus them. It's just you. So you talk up you. Don't worry about what somebody else is doing. Don't worry about what your boss is going to think.
Just ask. And if you have that conversation, like literally tomorrow, even if they're like, well, we can't do raises for another three months. At least they know. You planted the seed. Yeah. Yeah. That's actually one of the things you said, Crystal, reminded me of this thing I've been telling myself for probably about the last year is that I'm not going to take any opportunities off the table for myself.
Like, I'm not going to be the one who says like, no, you can't do that. No, like, they're not going to want you to be on their podcast. No, that person's not going to want to talk to you. Like, I'm not going to eliminate anything as a possibility before I even jump into it. Right. And that was a, like a big shift for me to be like, Wow.
I was really like you said, negotiating with myself out of things. Like before I even started, it was like, what I'm the one who don't realize you're doing it. Yeah. You don't realize you're doing it because it's so much subconscious [00:48:00] thoughts going on. And that's why it's like, just ask. I know where the person that doesn't like conflict, getting a no feels like conflict to you.
It's like, they don't like me. They don't want me to do that. It's not, it's not personal. It's just like, You presented them with the opportunity. They don't want to go with that. But if you don't ask, you will never get. So many times I find that women, even more so with ADHD, you're talking yourself out of things before you even know what the other person would think or say.
And so it's like, just ask, don't overthink it. If it's a no, it's a no. So what? You know, the most successful people in the world have heard no a million times and kept going. That's how they got there. They didn't get there because they took the path of least resistance. They didn't get there by having everybody just love them and follow over them.
They got there through a lot of closed doors that they just kept knocking on. Okay, I have one more question for you. Yeah. And then I don't know if you have any more for me. I posted in my community, like, hey, what kind of questions do y'all have for Crystal? And Katie asked for your [00:49:00] advice on strategies of how do you balance work and family time, especially in the summer when the kids are home more and, you know, schedules have shifted.
How do you find balance? in that season where things are starkly different from the school year? I will say this is pretty new to me, so it's also on my mind. This is a great time to ask this question because I had been working more traditionally until the last, like, two years. So one, I put my kids in camp.
at least a half day camp or so. And then what I've started to do is like right now, I am really trying to get the bigger things that I want to have done off the plate by May so that I'm just doing things that feel easier to me because I'm not like, I mean, people that know me in real life, Sometimes when I talk about my challenges are very surprised to see that I don't do the things that I feel that are going to be hard.
Like we've talked about a lot, me starting my new website and things like that, the well defined woman. com and the tech of it just makes me crazy. [00:50:00] And I'm like, once I start getting in there, I'm like, okay, I can do this. This is not that challenging, but in my mind I put that these things are so hard. So I try to do all those kinds of things that I know I'm going to be resistant to before when I have the whole day to like get things done and then know.
That the easier stuff, the run of the mill stuff I can do kind of like from my phone, if we're at the park, and then I just have lower expectations, like this is the season of life. This is what I've chosen. This is what I believe for me, God wants me to be with my children more to invest in them. And I have just got to have lower expectations for myself, which is very hard for me.
Um, and I just have to do that. That is where we're at. And I just have to remind myself all the time. That life is not a rush. Tomorrow will come. I can get things done in the time that I get things done. It also means that I need to be more efficient. And sometimes, like I said, I will stare at things and do all the other things that are super easy instead of the [00:51:00] one thing I really need to do.
And I have to force myself to be better about that because the time is limited. And that's just what it is. So it's having self awareness, understanding your own challenges. Having grace with yourself and then realizing you're not going to get as much done. And that is okay because raising children, keeping them alive, loving them, dealing with their fighting, that is a job.
I think this has been for me. Awesome. Patricia. I think that this has pulled up a lot of information. I think the only other thing that I had from my. Perspective that I think is helpful again for women with ADHD or without is like, what is your biggest piece of advice for women that suffer from perfectionism?
So I have done a lot of personal work on perfectionism and realizing that it is a coping mechanism, something that kept you safe and took care of you for so long, but it's grown legs and run away in a way that if you feel like it's perfectionism, it's not serving you. Like [00:52:00] it was meant to originally and what it comes down to is reminding ourselves that like, we are good enough just as we are, regardless of how many to do list items you've checked off today, like what you've accomplished, how many promotions you got, like, all that doesn't determine our worth.
Our worth is inherent because we're people who deserve care and you don't have to be perfect because that was never the expectation of you. So there's that fundamental piece. But then the strategic piece is actually practicing not being perfect at stuff and being okay with like B minus work, which is so hard when you are a perfectionist.
Like, I don't know which year it was probably somewhere around like 2021. My word of the year was failure because I made myself do things that I knew I wasn't going to be great at. from the start. And usually when you're a perfectionist, you're like, well, if I know I'm not going to be great at that, I'm not even starting it.
Practicing that I made mistakes. I screwed up stuff. I didn't do a [00:53:00] great job at that. Like I really wanted to pick up calligraphy. It looks gorgeous. I have not figured it out. The letters always look wonky. Like it's okay. I tried it. It's not the hobby for me, and that's okay. Like, even in those little things, like, how can you practice, like, no risk failure?
Calligraphy, no one's gonna die if my letters aren't formed right. Like, that's just fun. But that's a way that I can practice it not being perfect, and there's no harm. So when you start to tell your brain, like, it's okay that I messed this up. I'm still okay. I'm still safe, even though I made these mistakes.
That's how you can start to rewrite that narrative in your head, that you have to be perfect all the time. Yep. And just doing it. I mean, that's, I would say that I started learning tennis in the last year and a half and I didn't want to go to these classes because I was like, I'm going to be the worst.
Well, guess what? I am pretty much the worst one in these drop in classes, but I've gotten significantly better. So like, if I didn't go because I was worried about what everybody else was going to say or how I. perceived my performance and was [00:54:00] I worthy of being in this group, I would not be playing as well as I am now.
I mean, like somebody is always the worst at something. I mean, even like in professional golf, like there's somebody always at the bottom of the leaderboard. It just is what it is. It doesn't mean they don't deserve to be there. I always remind myself to the like, for example, like when you're in the tennis class and you realize you're not the best one, most of the people really aren't paying attention to everybody else.
We just don't have capacity to pay that much attention to other people. But the people that are noticing that you're not doing a good job are probably the other perfectionists. Which again, it's going back to like, that's their perspective. Cause they're feeling like they have to be good at everything all the time.
And that's a reflection on them, not on me. So I'm going to go out there. I actually took my first tennis lesson yesterday. Like I am not good. And it's not easy. It is hard. And I played softball. So like the whole angling, the, the racket thing is a whole new world. And if someone else is making a comment about my terrible tennis skills, that's a reflection on them.
It's not a [00:55:00] reflection on me. I'm the one who's out here on the court trying to get better. That's worth celebrating. Yeah. Not the person who's judging from the sidelines. So exactly. But that's been a long, what did I, I heard a saying the other day, and I think this is a prevalent thing, but it's like, You know, the only people that are going to stand around telling you shouldn't, couldn't or aren't doing it well are the ones that are not doing it.
The ones that are doing it are going to support you, celebrate you, and push you forward and encourage you to keep going. So do you want to listen to the naysayers or do you want to listen to the people that are out there doing it? I want my advice from the people on the court. Yeah, exactly. Well, I think this went well, and I think we have so much gold for everybody here.
I know. There's so many times I kept jotting down, like, Ooh, that was a good one. Ooh, that was a good one. Yeah. But before we wrap up, I do want to ask you my lightning round questions. Okay, great. So, super fast. Like, literally, don't think about it. Just answer. And then, at the end, we'll both tell everybody where to find us, and that way, the ladies listening can connect.
All right. Number one. The best thing that I've read or listened to recently is I always recommend, oh my gosh, the book, uh, it's on my nightstand. Why do I, it's, it's a [00:56:00] fable. Oh, it's going to drive me crazy. I'm not good at remembering things. I only remember things that are like totally important, but I recommend this book for everybody and I will give it to you and we can put it in the show notes.
I recommend I read it every year because I just think it helps you. What is your destiny? Where are you going? Um, and it's a short 120 page or something book, but it's sold like a hundred million copies. That's going to drive me crazy. That's right. We'll put in the show notes. All right. Number two, my most boring about me fact is I hate doing the dishes, like literally hate doing the dishes.
And so I let everybody else do the dishes. Number three, when I'm having a rough day, my go to quote, song, poem, book, podcast, activity, whatever is. I try to sit in the sun and remind myself that I am grateful that I am blessed and that God gave me a purpose. And you're livin it. Okay, number four. Don't tell anyone I It's an adult show, right?
Don't tell anybody I read slightly [00:57:00] smutty books. Number five. If I had a magic fairy wand for one spell, I would I would give myself triple patience. That's a good one. Okay. And number six, my best piece of advice for mamas with ADHD is grace. Just give yourself grace every day is a new day and be patient with yourself and not too hard on yourself.
Okay. So now tell the moms, where can they find you? I am for people that, you know, are into building a career business, whatever it is, I am pretty active on LinkedIn at crystal where risk strategist, and then I'm building out my new site. It is live, but it's not totally populated yet, but it is the well defined woman.
com where. I want to encourage everybody to build the well defined life that you deserve, that you are worth, and that looks different for everybody, but we all have a shared vision of making our dreams become a reality. And I'm also on Instagram, but, you know, kind of. [00:58:00] What about you? Oh, um, so you can find me at patriciasung.
com or motherhoodandadhd. com. So that's my handle on all my social media and everything as well. Um, and you can head over to my website. There's uh, patriciasung. com forward slash toolkit. And there I've got literally like a bazillion resources. So like, if you want to look at like a symptoms checklist of like real life, what does ADHD look like?
For like a grown woman, there's so many things are how to calm down. There's a whole pile of them. So go grab some support. That's free. And I would love to see you at, like, we have a community that meets every Wednesday. We have a retreat coming up in October. So yeah, come meet your people. If all, if this is all resounding with you, you know, find the people that they get you and make friends and find support.
Like we don't have to do this alone. So no. And I would say that is the biggest thing of where, where we are in the world. Yeah. Is women having less community than we ever had in our lives? And so if you are feeling alone, there is a community for [00:59:00] you somewhere. And I encourage you if that is the biggest thing, the biggest blessing to me is like where we live.
We have a good community, but I highly encourage because I think that we are meant to live and work and do life together as women. But our society has not put it that way. And so that is the other reason I wanted to create this website, where it is like its own little community and we will be having retreats in the future also.
But that is, I think, the biggest thing. I think we would see an improvement in mental health if women had more resources to be together. I agree. Awesome. Well, thank you so much. I really enjoyed this and we totally went longer than I said we would. So thank you. It was a good conversation. Yeah. Thank you too.
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