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In this episode, "Sippin on Gin or Juice?", we take a closer look at the Surgeon General's new recommendations to add more specific cancer warnings to alcohol labels and discuss what this means for the way we consume and think about alcohol. We also examine why younger generations are drinking less, the rise of the sober curious movement, and how alcohol impacts us differently as we age. Join us as we pour over these key issues and unpack the growing awareness around alcohol and its long-term health effects.
Creators and Guests
Host
What is The Shrink Down?
Four lifelong friends, all clinical psychologists, unpack the latest in current events, pop culture and celebrity news through the lens of psychology.
Vanessa (00:00.642)
Hello, welcome back to the Shrinkdown. Ladies, how are we feeling today? Good, I know, right? Happy New Year. So recently the Surgeon General released a recommendation about putting warning labels on alcohol regarding cancer. So today we're gonna be talking about that. We're gonna be talking about all things alcohol related, sober curious movement, alcohol use as we get older and how we feel after a couple of drinks.
Wilhelmina (00:05.177)
Good. Glad to be back.
Teri (00:05.215)
Good.
Lauren (00:05.23)
Good! Happy New Year!
Vanessa (00:26.182)
But before we get into that, let's do our four minute faves. It's been a while. So who wants to start today? Anyone? Okay, good. Mary.
Teri (00:33.867)
Okay, so we updated our dining room in our house, obviously. Yes, I don't have another dining room, so the dining room in my house. And we had gotten a couple consultations from professional designers, local designers who, by the way, were fantastic, but they are pricey. So then I kept seeing ads for Havenly, H-A-V-E-N-L-Y on social media.
Lauren (00:34.885)
Yeah?
Vanessa (00:40.718)
yeah, he showed us pictures. Very nice.
Lauren (00:42.522)
Yeah, it's cute.
Vanessa (00:45.027)
Hahaha!
Lauren (00:57.754)
Yeah.
Teri (01:03.845)
And I on a whim signed up and use them to design the room to update our dining room. And I could not be more pleased. I am getting no kickbacks from Havenly. I'm just this is my recommendation. You meet virtually online live with the designer. You send pictures from every angle of your room. You send all the measurements. You send like a footprint based on your floor plan and you send all that info. Then you click different ideas for inspiration, almost like Pinterest.
Lauren (01:12.134)
Hmm.
Vanessa (01:18.766)
That's gonna ask.
Lauren (01:33.305)
I love that.
Teri (01:33.547)
When you click around, they send you three different samples, and then you go back and forth and you tweak it. And then you can order what they suggest. And a lot of it's like CB2, Article, Creighton Barrel, West Elm, some a little higher end than that, some a little lower end. But you don't even have to, it's just their suggestion. So you can also just use that as inspiration. we sort of took, yeah, we like took what we liked and used that for the dining room and left what we didn't and then made some of it our ideas.
Wilhelmina (01:34.479)
Yeah, you too.
Lauren (01:54.009)
Okay.
Vanessa (01:55.468)
like go get your own stuff.
Lauren (01:58.907)
Yeah.
Teri (02:03.263)
but I could not be more happy. I think it was like $150 total. It was, I was, I thought it would be sort of half-assed. I was floored by how thorough it was, how user-friendly, like clicking on the website and the vision boards. Very impressed. If I ever want to redo another room in the house, I will definitely be using them.
Wilhelmina (02:07.341)
I was going to ask, wow, that's amazing.
Lauren (02:07.522)
wow!
Vanessa (02:08.002)
Nice.
Lauren (02:18.725)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (02:24.697)
That's awesome. And it looks great. I mean, you sent us those pics. It looks amazing.
Lauren (02:24.871)
I love that. Yes, it did. It looked really good. Yeah.
Vanessa (02:25.005)
It's now.
Teri (02:26.111)
Yeah.
Vanessa (02:28.044)
Yeah, looks really nice. We can post a picture of it on our Instagram and then tag Havenly.
Teri (02:29.503)
I love it. We ate dinner in it as a family. Yes. yeah. I will.
Lauren (02:33.722)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (02:37.465)
Yes. And you should definitely tag the adorable wallpaper you have. Like, yeah.
Teri (02:42.475)
Oh yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah. We did some rifle paper, wallpaper, on an accent wall and then had the rest of room painted. So yeah, I'll, I'll take some pics. All right.
Lauren (02:42.938)
Ooh, that's really cute too, yeah.
Vanessa (02:47.264)
you
Vanessa (02:52.024)
We'll post a picture so everyone can see. All right, Wilhelmina, what is yours?
Wilhelmina (02:55.875)
Okay, so mine's a little unusual. So I am currently watching a Korean show on Netflix, which is also good. It's called King the Land. I keep saying King of the Land, but it's actually King the Land. That is not what I'm talking about though, because what inspired me was my first love, which is a show called Crash Landing on You. It's on Netflix.
Lauren (03:00.102)
Okay.
Vanessa (03:00.782)
If
Lauren (03:25.958)
Okay.
Wilhelmina (03:26.253)
It is Korean, so with subtitles. Yes, you don't need to know Korean to watch the show. And my mom first told me about this show, and I sort of was like, OK, I'm on whatever. But she convinced me, and I watched the first episode, and I was like, this is good. And it is 16 episodes, each episode is like a movie length.
Teri (03:27.733)
with subtitles.
Lauren (03:29.947)
and
Vanessa (03:33.419)
I'm
Wilhelmina (03:54.019)
So it's a long show, but it's a full show. Like it's, it's done. Like this, that is the show. Yeah. And it is about a woman, an heiress from South Korea, and she has a paragliding kind of mishap accident that lands her in North Korea. Cause she's like living close to the border and she ends up in like the military area of North Korea and this
Lauren (03:54.794)
wow.
Vanessa (03:55.603)
wow.
Lauren (04:01.209)
Wow.
Lauren (04:15.238)
you
Wilhelmina (04:22.459)
officer, army officer, catches her and basically realizes quickly that she's not a threat, but there's some stuff that's going on in North Korea. I mean, obviously. And so he ends up hiding her and then trying to help her get back to South Korea. And one can only imagine what ensues as they have their little, know, hiding and having to pretend. But what is great about all of the Korean shows I've watched, but
Lauren (04:32.932)
Obviously.
Teri (04:34.347)
Huh?
Wilhelmina (04:51.147)
most of all with Crash Landing, you have all of these characters that you grow to love. And when the show ends, you feel like you've like lost family. And it has everything. The show has everything. It is romance. It is action. It is drama. It is funny. It is family. is it literally has everything. And anyone who actually has taken me up and watched the whole thing has
Lauren (04:59.972)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (05:20.847)
texted me, been like, where has this been all my life? One of my friends, her dad, like my friend watched it, she had her dad watch it. He was like, I think this is the best show I've ever seen in my life. six years ago, I'm not sure on the date, what's also very cool is that the leads,
Lauren (05:31.593)
my goodness. Is it recent or was this a show from years ago that you guys are discovering?
Lauren (05:40.676)
Okay, yeah.
Teri (05:40.765)
wow.
Wilhelmina (05:46.179)
I don't think they were together when they started the show, but they are together now and they're married and have a kid. So it's like, I mean, their chemistry was like amazing and clearly for good reason. Now I will, I had one friend that did start it and I feel like she didn't even get through the first episode cause she was like, it's so slow. And I'm like, well, it's not, I mean, we have things that are just like fast, fast, fast, fast, fast. It's not that there's a lot of looks, a lot of moments.
Teri (06:05.545)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (06:15.459)
a lot of this, but nothing builds the tension. was talking to about this.
Vanessa (06:20.719)
think Terry's like, I'm out. I'm out. All right. So tell us again, what's the name of this show?
Lauren (06:20.762)
Here's like, I'm out, I'm out.
Wilhelmina (06:23.611)
Taryn was like, would I like it? I was like, you might not like it.
Lauren (06:27.094)
No, no the answer is no.
Wilhelmina (06:29.403)
Crash landing on you. So Vanessa, actually think she literally lands herself and crashes into him.
Vanessa (06:33.134)
crash landing.
Teri (06:34.175)
Because she propels over the border,
Vanessa (06:39.086)
I am!
Lauren (06:40.164)
It's very literal title.
Wilhelmina (06:42.987)
Well, she crashes into a tree, but then she crashes on him. Here's who's going to love it. If you love Pride and Prejudice, you love Jane Austen, you love those things that build and build and build, you will love this. If you are not into that, no, don't do it. But if that sounds like something you would be like, please watch it. You will love it. I know it. If that's
Teri (06:43.925)
Yeah
Vanessa (06:53.196)
Yeah, Yeah, yeah. It's your jam.
Lauren (06:58.938)
Hello, Darren. Yeah.
Vanessa (07:09.442)
Does this fall under like their soap opera categories? I only ask because the way that you've described, the way they structure it sounds very much like how in Brazil they do soap opera. like, you know how here like the soap operas just never end? right, like for years. So like over there they do them and they're like six months long, like one soap opera, six months long. And then each opera, so like it's like a six month long like thing.
Wilhelmina (07:22.18)
and yes.
Lauren (07:22.224)
or daily. Yes.
Lauren (07:34.406)
It's like a series though.
Teri (07:35.147)
Like a mini-series.
Vanessa (07:35.534)
Yeah, but it, yeah, so it's like, yeah, yeah, so it's like a mini series and then it ends and then there's like a new soap opera and a lot of the same like actors and stuff and then so it's so that's how they do their, they call them soap operas, I don't know if they still do, but like that's what that sounds like to me anyway.
Lauren (07:41.818)
Gotcha.
Wilhelmina (07:42.554)
Thanks.
Wilhelmina (07:49.113)
think that is because I've now watched, I'm on my third of like the romance kind of ones, and they are all like that. They are isolated one season, all about 12 to 16, 17 episodes, and then they're done. And then I've seen a couple shorter ones that are more like dramas. Like I saw one recently called The Trunk, also Korean. That one's a little darker, and that one was like eight episodes. But again, mm.
Lauren (07:54.254)
Hello?
Vanessa (07:57.868)
Yeah.
Vanessa (08:02.456)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (08:17.519)
That one could have a second season, I suppose, but it could also be done. So that one's of Squid Game, obviously, which is very popular. And that one's now going to have a third season. yeah. And I was watching Crash Landing before Squid Game. But they were about the same time, the first one.
Lauren (08:24.88)
I'm going to hang up.
Vanessa (08:39.885)
Cool, so we'll also tag that on our Instagram. All right, Lauren, what are you sharing today?
Wilhelmina (08:42.351)
Yeah, it's so good.
Lauren (08:44.624)
Hey.
So I'm going to share something and then an update. Now, I know it was just Christmas. This is actually a gift my kids received. But I mean, there's birthdays and things like that. And this is not that expensive. And in the dead of winter where we all live, it's also a really good option. Have you guys heard of the Box Bowlin app and game? OK, Box Bowlin. It's a headband.
Vanessa (09:04.846)
Mm-mm. No. No.
Wilhelmina (09:05.243)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (09:11.844)
You've seen this before, probably. It's like a headband and there's a ball, a red ball at the end of it and you box it and like it goes up on your TV. So I don't know if it was my mom or Santa that got it for the boys, but it was a Christmas morning gift and it was super, super frustrating for them at first. Like they didn't know, like, what am I doing? Like, right. Once they got the hang of it, they have had the most
Teri (09:14.015)
them.
Lauren (09:39.536)
fun during break doing this. It's I mean, obviously it's like a little device you put on your head, but it's an app as well. But what's great about it, so they can box on it. They can do different competitions. You can do competitions like you can battle people if you wanted to, or you just are trying to improve on your own like hand-eye coordination and how well you can do it. But they also have as part of this little app, they have other little games on there. So there's one of like how fast you can clap in five seconds. It's like
silly, easy, again, there was a little bit of a learning curve, but easy fun for the kids. We've enjoyed it. The adults all got into it over break, so it's actually a lot of fun. Box Bowlin app.
Wilhelmina (10:22.864)
Is it so it's on like iPad or iPhone?
Lauren (10:25.67)
So you get the you get the ball so because it's like a headband with like an actual ball that you punch You get that and in the little package There's a QR code and then you just download it on whatever device you want But then they recommend you screen mirror with your TV and that really is my the kids have done it on my phone In fact, we were at a restaurant over break. They were doing it at the restaurant just with their hands So it's on my phone but screen mirroring on to a
Wilhelmina (10:49.903)
You
Lauren (10:55.864)
regular sized TV is really fun because then you can like be in a living room and be doing it or in the basement or whatever. So box bowl and I highly recommend it. I like I think the price I'll get you a link Vanessa and we'll link it. It's really reasonably priced and a lot of fun. It would be a really, really easy gift for somebody or just like something if you needed an activity for a long winter weekend or something like that. And then update my little the this was
months ago, but the shoe warmer dryer thing that I've gotten lots of people asking me like, what's the link? Can you send me the link? It is really, really good for gloves after kids are out sledding. just a like multi-use, we realize we always put that kind of stuff in the dryer, snow pants and like hats and gloves and whatever, but the putting the gloves on each of those individual little things that that are part of that dryer. my God, they're dry in like five minutes.
Wilhelmina (11:25.696)
yeah, yeah.
Teri (11:26.303)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (11:26.318)
yeah.
Wilhelmina (11:34.395)
how
Vanessa (11:35.106)
No, that makes sense.
Teri (11:35.371)
Teri (11:39.561)
Yeah.
Lauren (11:53.542)
So just an update for those that... it's gross, right? Yeah. So we found another use for it. So anyway.
Wilhelmina (11:54.104)
that's that's huge because my kids, they're drenched and yeah.
Vanessa (11:58.272)
Yeah. We just got slammed with, we just got slammed with snow today and Ev was actually outside playing in the snow and she came in, her socks were sopping wet and her gloves. I was like, that would have been good. Yeah, literally.
Lauren (12:07.632)
soaking everything everything I mean obviously for the boots for the season it's great as well but the gloves yes so not that much but we used it sledding down some dirt and barely snowy hills yeah it's like this much we did the best we could
Teri (12:09.259)
And...
Vanessa (12:14.732)
Yeah, that's good.
Wilhelmina (12:15.639)
Ugh, I'm jealous you guys got snow. I want snow.
Vanessa (12:19.01)
Yeah. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (12:20.981)
Ugh. We've gotten like, dusting.
Teri (12:24.331)
Pitiful. It's been pitiful here.
Vanessa (12:25.742)
Yeah, I think we got a couple inches.
Wilhelmina (12:25.999)
We like rip open the curtains when we hear it.
It's like, I can still see the yard.
Lauren (12:34.136)
We're lucky we're on a golf course, so there's enough hills that just kind of where they, you know, didn't get the sun and so they had like this much on it. So, you know, we made it work. anyway, Vanessa, what you got?
Vanessa (12:46.574)
I am going to share a makeup. So I'm going back to like my OG sharing of makeup products. So I got this, I don't know, a couple of months ago. And I always like to try something for a good amount of time before I like, I say like, okay, this is like a good one. Cause I try a lot of different skincare stuff and makeup stuff and it's not, it doesn't always all pan out. So this is from Tarte and I've shared their eyeliner, which I love and have gone through many, many, many eyeliner sticks.
But this is their hydrating primer. So it's like a base tape hydrating primer. So you put it on your skin. You do all your skincare products. So you would put this before you start your makeup, like your foundation. And it's just so hydrating. I can't quite tell you. It's like putting on the best moisturizer. So I do my moisturizer. put this on top. But it really helps hold your makeup, especially your foundation.
but it just feels so good. And it also has like some skincare ingredients and it's to help with like fine lines too. So like I always like those like multi like, you know, things that like, yeah, so multi use. So it's like helping your skin, but it's also helping like keep your makeup in place and it's helping, you know, your makeup look better. So like even like my foundation that I use has like SPF 50 and like all these things. So I like it. I like using things that have like lots of purposes to them, multi-purpose, but this is, yeah, and it's the hydrating primer from Tarte. I have like,
Lauren (13:50.63)
group.
Vanessa (14:11.95)
I would say normal to dry skin. So like, I don't know how it works on other people's skin, but it's really, really nice product that I've been using for a while. And like I said, I don't like to share unless I'm like, this is one of those like really good ones that I've been using for a while. if anybody, I don't have it with me. I have a picture of it. It's this, yeah, I'll link it. It's this little tube here, but I love it. So yeah, so, and especially like in the winter when your skin is really dry, like it just helps like,
Lauren (14:27.172)
You have it with you right now. No, I was going to say, can you show me? You'll link that so we can see it. OK. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (14:36.059)
Okay. So.
Teri (14:36.907)
.
Lauren (14:40.26)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Wilhelmina (14:42.789)
So Vanessa, tell me what the point of a primer is. I think I have a primer, but like, I'm always like, so it's not a lotion, although obviously it can't, but it's not your foundation. So what is, literally what is it?
Vanessa (14:47.752)
Yeah.
Vanessa (14:56.512)
Yeah, so it's supposed to help like make the product go on smoother onto your face. it's like, so like if you imagine it's almost like a another like layer before you put on that, because you know, when you put foundation on it kind of goes into all the like, cracks and wrinkles and all that stuff. So yeah, so it helps. Yeah, it's very, very familiar with them. So, we've all
Wilhelmina (15:01.253)
Okay.
Wilhelmina (15:10.356)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I do. Prinkles! I've got none of those. None of those.
Lauren (15:10.886)
See then.
Teri (15:12.784)
I do. I do. I do know. I do know that.
Lauren (15:14.33)
Yes, thank you. Yes, thank you.
Lauren (15:21.392)
You
Wilhelmina (15:23.451)
The cracks and crevices.
Vanessa (15:26.062)
All the cracks and crinkles around our faces, ladies. Well, I don't want to speak for anyone, but. So, yeah, so it helps smooth out your skin basically before you put on the foundation, and it also helps them blend it better. again, sometimes you put on your foundation and it's like, it doesn't feel like it's blending in, so it helps blend it. And then this one also helps kind of set it too. So it just.
Teri (15:26.963)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (15:32.059)
Ordering now.
Lauren (15:36.484)
right now.
Vanessa (15:54.286)
looks more kind of natural, instead of like, OK, I just put this layer of foundation on. So yeah, so it's to help it settle into your face nicely, I'll say. So yeah. So I mean, I don't use it all the time. Definitely, if I'm going somewhere nice, then I'll like, OK, let me put on my primer. So I wouldn't say that I use it every single time, because sometimes I just don't care. Like, don't have it on. I don't have it on today. Yeah.
Lauren (16:04.71)
awesome.
Wilhelmina (16:14.843)
Yeah. Well, I don't use foundation. don't.
Teri (16:18.571)
You
Wilhelmina (16:19.895)
foundation that much. Like I'll use it if I'm going out or if I want like an extra so I can see how you only really use it if you're doing like a full face.
Vanessa (16:26.774)
Yeah, yeah, like definitely if I'm doing a full face, then I'll do it. I don't do it like daily just because like I said, I don't.
Wilhelmina (16:33.369)
Nope, ain't nobody got time for that. Like, no.
Vanessa (16:35.286)
Exactly. Then I just let the crinkles and the cracks be. All right. Well, now that we've shared our four-minute faves, we're going to move on to today's topic. So ladies, what are we thinking? What are we thinking about the Surgeon General's recommendation?
Teri (16:36.651)
Mm.
Lauren (16:53.348)
I I wasn't thrilled, thought being honest.
Teri (16:53.353)
Okay. What, what, what, wasn't thrill. I thought the timing was interesting and strategic. A lot of people. Yeah. So let's wait till after all the holiday festivities have passed a lot. Let's try to capitalize on people trying, or a lot of people do dry January or damp January annually. Let's really jump on that. I think to release that type of.
Vanessa (16:55.229)
Hahaha!
Lauren (17:01.51)
I didn't even think about that.
Wilhelmina (17:03.227)
Absolutely.
Vanessa (17:04.781)
Tell us more.
Teri (17:23.292)
statement on December 15th, it wouldn't land the way it does. Yeah, I think it would gotten lost in the mix. are like, I want to have my mimosas on Christmas morning. I want to drink my wine at the holiday party, X, Y, and Z. But people are often health focused in January. Dry January seems to pick up steam even more year after year. So I think it was very strategic. I have been personally experimenting with sober curiosity for a couple of reasons over the last couple of months.
Lauren (17:26.49)
Yeah, would've gotten lost.
Vanessa (17:27.821)
Mm-hmm. That's a good point.
Teri (17:53.099)
And the reading, the quit lit is what they call it, that I've been reading, that has been pretty straightforward about where the World Health Organization, the WHO stands. So I think for people who are embedded in cancer research, this is not a surprise. But I think for laypeople like us, like I remember reading it, like there's four main carcinogens WHO has identified.
radiation, asbestos, tobacco, and alcohol. And the way we treat those three versus alcohol in our society is so dramatically different that I was like, whoa. So again, do I think big alcohol is going to fall down the way big tobacco did? Like, no way. But yes.
Lauren (18:40.069)
Right.
Wilhelmina (18:40.281)
I mean, but I think that took a while to have big tobacco fall. Like, I don't think it was, it took time.
Lauren (18:45.392)
Yeah.
Vanessa (18:47.342)
Well, I was just reading that a lot of these, because of this movement, this sober curious movement and just the general decline in alcohol use with the Gen Z generation, they've talked about how these companies are kind of swinging towards non-alcohol and low alcohol options. So I think that that's where they're gonna start putting some of their money so that they don't lose money is catering to those two different types of alternative drinks.
Wilhelmina (19:02.872)
Is this right?
Teri (19:04.427)
Hmm?
Wilhelmina (19:11.141)
Mm-hmm.
Teri (19:16.917)
Well, and one thing that I was thinking of is a couple months ago, I share my office suite. There's like seven offices and we share a suite and a waiting room at my private practice. One of them is a social worker in his mid sixties who primarily works with healthcare professionals with addiction histories. So lots of nurses, physicians, other healthcare workers who are in some sort of recovery. And he does both an abstinence and harm reduction model. So somewhat some moderation, harm reduction, as well as more kind of the traditional AA total abstinence.
Lauren (19:33.766)
Okay.
Lauren (19:40.218)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Teri (19:45.863)
And he was in my office chatting with me. This was maybe three or four months ago. And we were just talking. And I said, you know what's interesting? My nieces and nephews who are in their 20s do not drink the way people did when we were in our 20s. The turning 21 rite of passage is not really what it used to be nowadays. And I said to him, I was reflecting on doing intake interviews with teenagers and young adults. And I think about how they would answer the alcohol use questions 15 years ago.
in my office versus the last couple years. And their response is when I ask about it, almost, I feel like they're looking at me like, okay, boomer, like, no, I don't drink, don't drink, nobody drinks, like we don't do that. And when I think about the people I was seeing in my office, even 10 years ago, even maybe nine, 10 years ago and 15 years ago, they would be.
Lauren (20:15.782)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (20:24.55)
That's it, that's
Vanessa (20:25.294)
you
Teri (20:38.763)
more forthcoming, obviously concealing if they were underage, but they would say, only on the weekends at parties with my friends, but I'm not even getting those responses anymore. I was sharing that with the social worker whose name is Dan and he said, yeah, that's why all the breweries are closing and they're all merging. He said, all the people, nobody's going to them anymore. And I was like, huh, that's interesting. And I Googled it and he's right. In Milwaukee, all these breweries are either closing or merging.
Wilhelmina (20:59.323)
Mm.
Wilhelmina (21:04.559)
Wow.
Teri (21:05.929)
because it's not all of them, but there's a lot of them are emerging and closing because Gen Z in particular is not taking after previous generations in terms of their alcohol consumption.
Lauren (21:16.336)
So let me ask you a question, and this might be, and you guys, can write ourselves a note or table it, but is that because of alcohol specifically, or is it because that generation is not going out and socializing in the same way as other generations? And guess what? That should have a Surgeon General warning also. I mean, there are a lot of consequences. Really, there's consequences to them? Yes.
Wilhelmina (21:29.305)
Yeah, uh-huh.
Vanessa (21:37.582)
Yeah. No, I agree. I'm laughing, but I agree. Yeah. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (21:42.587)
Fox warning.
Lauren (21:44.198)
They're living their lives like this and they, it's an interesting point, Terri. And I think that if we had to guess, and I'm sure we could all do a little bit of work and then we could follow up with this episode and kind of take that kind of twist on it, it's like what these, their activities are different. And on the one hand, they might have healthier digestive systems, livers, et cetera. I mean, some of the cancers that
It's oral cavity, pharynx, larynx, esophagus, colorectal, liver, and breast. Obviously, the liver one, the breast one, and the colon, the colorectal, those ones are obviously maybe more commonly known. I don't even know if that's the right term. But all of these are like in the oral cavity, pharynx, larynx, esophagus. We're talking about sort of the ENT kind of area. So that, mean, that's awful.
Vanessa (22:14.062)
Seven. Seven. Seven.
Teri (22:15.605)
Seven of them, yeah.
Lauren (22:40.314)
But I don't think that's why young people aren't drinking. There's a whole other piece to you and what that looks like for their health. So they might have better health when it comes to alcohol, but I will not be surprised and I would be interested to know in what other ways their health. Well, we know their mental health is worse than anybody's.
Teri (22:58.421)
Well, in...
Wilhelmina (22:58.735)
Well, not drinking. They're not drinking and they're not getting driver's license. mean, they're not.
Teri (23:04.277)
They're well not not only that it's in general, they're more cautious and risk averse. So you're spot on Lauren when they look.
Lauren (23:04.43)
Right? they're not meeting any of those milestones.
Lauren (23:11.418)
Well, and they're not at college. That was the other thing I was going to say when you were saying that. There are more and more people in their early 20s or right out of high school that are choosing to stay at home for the first few years for multiple reasons, right? I mean, COVID comes into play, but financials taking, you know, of undergrad courses at community colleges and things like that. But it's just, I'm curious, and I know this is about, again, this like sober curious and the alcohol piece of things, but that generation specifically,
Wilhelmina (23:14.223)
Yes!
Lauren (23:40.9)
will probably skew the results of people with this sober curious movement because I don't think they're doing it for the same reasons as maybe people our age or older generations might be doing it for more of health. As if I don't think that younger generation is doing it for health. I think they're doing it because it's in, what's the word I'm looking for? A consequence of
Teri (23:58.25)
Mm-hmm.
Teri (24:07.211)
It's a risk. right.
Wilhelmina (24:08.24)
Yeah, it's
Lauren (24:09.094)
It's a consequence of their different behaviors, their social behaviors.
Teri (24:13.173)
Well, in general, everything's lower. Teen pregnancy, crime, drunk driving, getting your driver's license, any risky behaviors are lower than any previous generations. And I think you're right. I think alcohol falls under that umbrella, that if the generation in general is more cautious and risk averse, alcohol is going to be under that. Right. Right. Now, I will say this. This is interesting. And I'm going to put one of my good friends on the spot.
Lauren (24:16.324)
Right. Right.
Lauren (24:27.237)
Right.
Lauren (24:32.944)
But then they're also not leaving the nest as a result of not figuring out how to take risks and be self-sufficient.
Teri (24:42.909)
Steph. And so when she hears this, she has a sister who is 12 years younger than us, 13 years younger than us, who got married a year or two ago. And Steph went to her bachelor party and she said, wow, has the bar scene changed? She said, and this was an old town on Wells, which is a neighborhood in Chicago that has bustling with bars, restaurants, all in this strip of Wells. Steph said at 11 o'clock at night, it was sparsely populated. We thought it was like 7 p.m.
Lauren (24:50.168)
OK. OK.
Wilhelmina (24:55.533)
Yeah.
Teri (25:12.575)
She said, almost everyone's on their phones the whole time. They're at the bar. said, she said, mm-hmm.
Lauren (25:15.59)
Oh yeah. We saw this last year! Do you guys- Where were we?
Wilhelmina (25:16.314)
I know.
Yes, we were at that place, the moon, electric moon or something moon. Yes, with a slide.
Vanessa (25:24.5)
yeah, yeah, yes. And they were all sitting on the couch on their phone. Yeah, and like they were posing for their selfies or like looking at their phone.
Teri (25:24.915)
In Savannah. In Savannah.
Lauren (25:25.424)
Where did we go last year? Savannah.
They were sitting on their guests?
Teri (25:30.993)
on their phones.
Wilhelmina (25:33.273)
Yes. And we were the only ones like on the dance floor like, like, why is everyone on their phones?
Teri (25:36.799)
Well, when I asked Steph, I said, how was your sister's bachelorette party? And Steph's reply was, nobody knows how to party anymore. She said people have a drink and then they hang out for a little while, drink some water. And they cap it at about three drinks a night. She's like, and then they're like, right. They're like, okay, that's good. We're going home. She's like, nobody's like doing shots. Nobody's, know, she said that in general, she felt like the vibe in the scene was very different than it was 20 years ago.
Vanessa (25:36.994)
With our drink.
Lauren (25:49.542)
and they get on their phone.
Well there's nothing wrong with that!
Teri (26:06.655)
when we were in our mid-20s.
Wilhelmina (26:08.077)
Not quite the same as our bachelorette parties is what you're saying.
Teri (26:10.32)
Lauren (26:10.925)
haha
Vanessa (26:11.896)
Well, I was looking up to see why there is a decline. And you're right, the part of it is the social part. I was reading about how COVID had, obviously with COVID, people, there was a significant decline in drinking because of the social aspect. But there's also some racial stuff too, like ethnicity stuff. So lot of the initial earlier studies were primarily white people. so non-white people, minorities, yeah, so they tend to have
Wilhelmina (26:13.979)
Yes!
Lauren (26:17.925)
Yeah.
Lauren (26:38.052)
Non-Caucasian, yep.
Vanessa (26:41.612)
always had lower alcohol and now they're being included more in some of these. So like the research is little skewed too. Yeah, so it's a little bit skewed. And then they talked about how there is an increase in health and safety awareness. So like, I think it's a combination of like, there's definitely social, but like, because they have access to like all this like social media stuff, like I think some of that health awareness kicks into. And then they also talked about how marijuana is now like swapping, like, right? So like, they're not drinking, but that doesn't mean that they're not, you know.
Lauren (26:43.674)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So it's naturally skewing lower.
Teri (26:46.389)
Hmm.
Teri (26:54.144)
Yes.
Lauren (26:58.447)
Yeah, sure.
Wilhelmina (27:04.335)
Mm-hmm, going up, yep.
Lauren (27:04.884)
wait. Yeah, yeah.
Teri (27:06.475)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (27:10.37)
experimenting.
Vanessa (27:11.598)
experimenting with, you marijuana, however they're using it. Right? So like, yeah, so it's kind of, I think, changed. Yeah. So I think it's a little bit of all of those reasons. No, I think it's all of those things. Yeah, I think it's all of the things.
Teri (27:12.681)
Right. Mushrooms, ketamine, I mean, it's not, it's, yeah.
Lauren (27:16.058)
Yeah.
Teri (27:22.793)
I don't think it's just one thing. I feel like it's a hybrid.
Lauren (27:23.482)
Right. Isn't this true with all aspects of health that they may shift, things may shift and people might, okay, we're looking at the Surgeon General's warning, we're looking at these cancer risks. Certainly that's going to give people pause if not motivate them to significantly engage in some kind of behavior change regarding alcohol. But like there's always something.
And I don't mean to like minimize the alcohol piece because obviously they have the data. They wouldn't put it out without the data. it's like when he, the he, isn't that horrible? When the surgeon general, when studies, when the national institutes of health and things like that came out with the tobacco warning, right? Years ago, there's research to back it up, but there's always something. It's like the, you know, like too much fat. No, no, you need fat. Like, you know, eggs are terrible. Actually eggs are wonderful. Like,
Teri (27:49.867)
Yes.
Teri (28:10.347)
There's always something.
Vanessa (28:10.786)
Yeah, not great. Yeah.
Yeah.
Lauren (28:17.67)
there's always something and I haven't done enough of the work and I don't know if any of you guys have done any of the reading. Is there any information on the way alcohol is being produced? And I'm thinking sugar. I immediately was thinking like the links that are coming out with sugar in different cancers and they don't say that in the statement but I'm really curious as to whether or not like if you're getting
Vanessa (28:30.992)
that's different. Hmm, sugar and cancer. Yeah.
Teri (28:32.102)
question.
Teri (28:38.677)
Right.
Lauren (28:46.808)
a really well-produced wine from a winery and they are saying to you, we're using organic grapes and we're not putting any crap on our grapes and this is all this is, right? Is that different than some of these alcohols that are filled with sugars and processed in a way?
Teri (29:02.367)
and the way your body is having to process it. I think that's a valid question.
Wilhelmina (29:03.835)
Yeah.
Vanessa (29:05.102)
Well, but then also like, like quantity, right? Like, is there any discussion about like, well, okay, so like, right, like, right. Like if you drink one glass of wine versus like, obviously the more you drink, right? But is there this like level where you could drink it and it's not gonna have these kinds of negative side effects, right? Like.
Lauren (29:09.25)
course. Yes, of course. Things that are going to do damage. Right.
Lauren (29:18.19)
Right, right.
Lauren (29:25.53)
Isn't the suggestion any amount? Isn't that what they're suggesting of putting on these labels?
Wilhelmina (29:27.728)
Mm-hmm.
Teri (29:30.667)
Yeah, because like I remember listening to Andrew Huberman's episode on alcohol maybe a year or so ago. I remember my takeaway, I listened to it on a drive home from work. And I came in and looked at my husband and I was like, I don't really not supposed to be drinking anything was like the way your body processes it when you really got into the biology of it and the mechanisms. I was like,
Lauren (29:35.098)
Yeah. Yeah.
Vanessa (29:49.134)
Isn't it fascinating though? There used to be like, you should drink a glass of red wine a day and it makes you live forever or whatever it Yeah. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (29:53.115)
to relax.
Lauren (29:53.168)
or your heart, or your heart is nice. And that's what I mean. Like everything, like are we just in a time where this has been popularized, the research is there. like, and it's gonna get to your point, Terry, the timing of the message, like it's going to get some traction right now. And so people are going to like, I don't know, buy into it more.
Teri (29:54.207)
for your heart. Right, right, right.
Vanessa (30:00.396)
Right. Where is it?
Teri (30:04.757)
Right.
Teri (30:13.61)
Yes.
Vanessa (30:17.432)
Well, I think like you were saying that he was talking about he being Huberin, that he was talking about like the actual like science to it. I mean, they have said that as we get older, that our bodies change. So our liver does not process the alcohol and then the reduced muscle mass also affects the way that alcohol affects you. And it's funny, like I did not know anything about sober, curious, like I didn't know anything about it. And then I was like reading it and I was like, I've been doing this now for several years. Like, I mean, you guys all know that I like.
Lauren (30:21.53)
Yeah, yes.
Lauren (30:28.709)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (30:30.341)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (30:32.262)
100%.
Lauren (30:43.526)
for a long time. Right. Well, yeah, because you
Wilhelmina (30:43.556)
You
Vanessa (30:47.128)
stop drinking, like I don't drink that much. And I was like, I did that naturally. And I did that because I felt shitty after I was drinking. And I was like, really don't like the negative side effects of drinking. I think some of it is just literally like your natural, your body's getting older and you're processing it. So you're like, I don't wanna do that anymore.
Lauren (30:59.258)
Exactly.
Lauren (31:07.472)
Well, and they always love the term, but it's almost more like you became curious about your health, however many years ago. And so as a result, you started shifting things, but not just alcohol, shifting your workouts, your eating habits, like whatever. But they love it. mean, social media loves the term, right?
Vanessa (31:10.776)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (31:10.789)
yeah.
Vanessa (31:20.162)
Right. Right.
Wilhelmina (31:20.485)
So.
Vanessa (31:25.804)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (31:28.155)
So I'm going to jump in for just a second because I've been sort of dabbling in the sober, curious sort of what it is for about two to three years now. The first time I kind of heard it was the woman, My Sweet Life, which is now The Sober Mom Life. And my kind of sweet, thank you. And she.
Teri (31:47.563)
Yeah, my kind of sweet. Yep.
Wilhelmina (31:54.625)
she stopped drinking and I remember her talking about her reasoning and I was sort of like, huh, hmm. It sort of sounded like eerily familiar of sort of tying alcohol to so many things. Like, it's Friday night, let's have some wine. I'm going out with my friends, I'm gonna have some wine. We're going on vacation, I'm gonna have wine. It's Christmas break, every single day I'm gonna drink. Like all of these things. And then as you get older, yeah.
Lauren (32:05.296)
Yeah.
Lauren (32:12.026)
Wee.
Lauren (32:20.518)
It's COVID. That's what I think. Yeah.
Teri (32:21.835)
But it's date night.
Wilhelmina (32:22.541)
It's COVID. And then as you get older, as a woman, you do start to, it starts to affect you differently, but then, so like you're waking up, you're like, this feels horrible. And so it was a little like light that went on in my head. And I started looking at my own drinking and sort of like trying to sort of explore it. I got a lot of the quick quit lit literature. I've had patients who I've worked with who actually have gone through that and
Lauren (32:31.43)
100%.
Wilhelmina (32:51.099)
So I've like learned from them and we've learned together. And so I think that with the sober curious movement, there is health for sure as an aspect. But I think there's also this idea of like, there has been this huge push and we are in the thick of it for women in the last 20 years that alcohol is fun. Alcohol is relaxing. Alcohol is a stress reliever. Alcohol, you
Lauren (33:16.486)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (33:20.975)
cures all things and it's how you celebrate mother motherhood like how can we get through motherhood without the wine and once you start to see that you're like it's everywhere like all especially towards women i mean it's not even as it's that's why women's yes and and so i think that that has been my thing of
Teri (33:23.103)
It's how you celebrate. It's how you enjoy things. Yeah.
Lauren (33:33.872)
Yeah.
Lauren (33:37.67)
It's actually more, I would say, more towards women. Yeah, in terms of marketing. Yeah.
Teri (33:39.349)
Yes, I agree.
Wilhelmina (33:49.007)
I don't even remember a time where I would like, I went through high school, I didn't drink at all in high school. I didn't even drink for the beginning of college until like later in my first semester. And so I'm like, I don't even remember what that's like. Like what that is like. And I think that now you then you put in getting older, you put in the health risks, you put in all of that and you're like, huh, what does this look like for me?
Lauren (34:03.012)
Yeah.
Teri (34:16.127)
And I think it's very individual. so like everyone has their own personal relationship with alcohol, which I know sounds weird. It's true, right? And I think what's really weird about alcohol, this is something my husband and I have talked about. It's the one thing that people question if you don't do it. So if I say, I don't drink water, people are like, well, okay, I guess you should, right? Or like, I don't eat sugar.
Wilhelmina (34:18.905)
Absolutely.
Vanessa (34:24.534)
No, it's true. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Lauren (34:25.284)
No, I think it's true of most health items. Yeah.
Lauren (34:38.118)
Mmm.
Wilhelmina (34:42.843)
you
Teri (34:44.821)
I don't, like if I said to somebody, I don't drink soda, okay, well, I don't drink. Right, then it's like, ooh, did you have a problem? Is it like why? So it's one of the very few things, if not only things, that if you say, I don't indulge in this, people have, they really question it and they push it. And what happened for me over the last year or two is my body without a doubt started changing how it deals with alcohol. Even a small amount, like my sleep,
Wilhelmina (34:46.853)
i don't drink soda okay
Vanessa (34:49.624)
That makes sense because it's not healthy.
Lauren (34:51.62)
Right.
Lauren (34:59.706)
Yeah.
Lauren (35:04.026)
Now.
Teri (35:14.749)
waking up, how I felt the rest of the week, my energy level. I would feel hungover after like two glasses of wine, even good, like a good quality wine. I'm like, what is going on? And what happened at the same time is I developed frozen shoulders, which I didn't learn could is likely after meeting with orthopedic surgeon and a PT and a chiropractor in my OB-GYN is likely related to as part of a bigger picture of paramenopause symptoms. And my several
Lauren (35:23.097)
Yeah.
Teri (35:44.467)
of the physicians I was seeing were like, well, you should really try a period of cutting out alcohol. We're going to add in hormone in terms of going back on birth control pills, all of these things. And what I was doing for the last two years was everything but cutting out alcohol. And then I was finally, what it dovetailed for me was that I was like, all right, let me give this a try, right? Like, let me really cut it out because have I really had a period outside of my pregnancies?
Wilhelmina (35:57.755)
Mm-hmm.
Teri (36:10.667)
since I was 20 that I haven't drank for a period of time. Unfortunately, the answer is no outside of pregnancy. And at the same time, we have a extended family member who has two years of sobriety under their belt that has really had my husband re-examine his relationship with drinking and alcohol. And so that really sort of happened at the same time. And we're both like, let's see what it's like not drinking for a while.
And it is a very interesting, you feel like you woke up from the matrix. It's a very interesting exercise going on a date night together and not drinking. And we're going to certain events or activities and it's been very interesting and I don't count days. It's been a couple months. Like I'm not counting days or anything and I don't, like I say to myself, if I feel like I want to have a drink again, I will. Like I'm not saying like I, but cause that's the question.
Lauren (37:03.674)
Yeah.
Teri (37:05.993)
I've gotten like, so like never again, or just like for now, right? And I'm like, I don't know. Like it's, I doubt it. I'm sure I'm probably gonna have a drink again. But like, I feel like it's gotta be, the evenness and the energy shift that I've had and the sleep is like, the sleep, the sleep. I'm like, yep.
Lauren (37:26.052)
The sleep. Yeah. Yep. Yep.
Vanessa (37:26.594)
Yeah, yeah, it really does. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (37:28.345)
That's what I've heard from everyone. Anxiety levels go down. Like people who just thought, I'm just anxious. They cut out drinking and they're like, I actually wasn't as anxious as I thought. That was alcohol. The sleep is huge. Your skin. I mean, my God, after a night of like a couple glasses, I wake up, I feel like I'm like dry and gray. I'm like, ugh.
Lauren (37:39.472)
Yep. Yep.
Teri (37:39.529)
Right. Right.
Vanessa (37:42.605)
yeah. yeah.
Lauren (37:44.388)
Yeah?
Teri (37:50.887)
I just cannot tolerate a hangover. I'm like, I just can't tolerate it.
Vanessa (37:51.022)
Well, I know, I, well, that's why I stopped like drinking hard like several years ago. I was like, I didn't like the way that it was making me feel the next day. And I was like, no. And yeah, the sleep thing. I like, I already have like my own sleep issues. And so like, I already know like I have to make a commitment and like, okay, I'm gonna drink and I'm not gonna sleep because that's something I have to like commit to. Exactly. And it's, you know, like we went out for dinner the other day.
Wilhelmina (38:05.083)
You
Lauren (38:09.307)
Right.
Teri (38:10.66)
you sort of have to choose. Do you want to sleep or do you want to drink?
Wilhelmina (38:12.355)
Yeah, yeah.
Lauren (38:12.763)
me.
Vanessa (38:16.142)
And I was like, okay, I wanted, I was like, I want to have a drink. you know, people, you know, like back in the day we used to like pregame, like now I prehydrate. I'm on my way to drinking and I'm like, okay, got to finish this family before, yeah, like before I, so I prehydrate before I go. And then for every, like my rule currently is like for every drink I have, used to be like one thing of water, but like, I will drink a glass of water.
Wilhelmina (38:22.479)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Lauren (38:28.294)
I'm glad her getting my electrolyte.
Wilhelmina (38:28.389)
You're pouring in a hydration packet, and you're
Teri (38:32.587)
Yep.
Vanessa (38:42.902)
And then I will stand there, I know you guys have seen me, with a glass of water and a drink in my hand, and I'm alternating the two. But I found that that works for me. I know that if I super, super hydrate, that works for me. I only drink occasionally when we go out sort of thing. And that works for me. So I think everyone has to just figure out what works for them. But I know I've gotten side eye so many times because I'm like, I don't want to have a drink, or I have one drink, and it's like, that's all you're having. And it's like, yeah.
Lauren (38:49.552)
Yeah. Yeah.
Vanessa (39:11.502)
Like I feel good. I don't need it. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.
Teri (39:14.175)
And it's very personal. Like it's really just about what feels good for you and your body and depends what kind of work day you had and week and if you've been sick recently or not. And I mean, there's just so much that goes into it.
Vanessa (39:23.888)
yeah. And I'm like, more power to you if you feel like you can keep on keeping on like I have friends in our circle like our bigger circle of friends and like they they go hard all the time. And I'm like, good for you. Like I couldn't even even if I wanted to wouldn't try and like you're talking about like skin stuff like I know people who are my age or younger who drink a lot and they look much older than I do. And I know it's because of
Lauren (39:43.651)
my gosh.
Wilhelmina (39:50.224)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (39:52.908)
like the alcohol use, right? Like it takes time.
Lauren (39:54.463)
that they've lived a hard life.
Wilhelmina (39:57.132)
Well, my, like in the last few years, my emotions are all over the place. mean, hello, perimenopause. And I mean, I could be crying, I could be angry, you know, like just, just the wind shifts. so I've like, I've actually noticed that if I have like a couple glasses of wine, suddenly, if I, I could be fine, but I could also.
be very tearful. I could also suddenly hate my husband, you know, like I could be extra annoyed at my kids. And it's like, I don't like that because then it feels like I'm not getting to choose. Like that's happening to me. Cause it might've been a little, yeah, it might've been a little irritation if I had to hit nothing, but suddenly it's like huge. And I hate that. I'm like, I don't, I'm already feeling too like pulled around by my own.
Lauren (40:28.452)
I could also not be fine.
Vanessa (40:28.92)
Yeah.
Teri (40:29.387)
Thank you.
Lauren (40:33.065)
Yeah.
Teri (40:36.533)
you
Mmm.
Lauren (40:39.984)
You're not in control.
Vanessa (40:45.196)
All the things, yeah. Yeah.
Lauren (40:47.59)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (40:52.805)
hormones, I don't need something else to continually be another factor that's making me feel crazy.
Vanessa (40:59.596)
Yeah. It's so interesting how alcohol affects people. You get the people who become emotional. You get the people who become mean. You get the people who become aggressive. Or some people get super relaxed and some people get sleepy tired. Super relaxed and more outgoing. The person who's a little bit more reserved becomes more outgoing. So it's just so fascinating the different ways that people
Teri (41:00.575)
Mm-hmm.
Teri (41:08.179)
Aggressive, like some people become aggressive. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (41:09.762)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Lauren (41:09.926)
Yeah.
Lauren (41:13.99)
tired.
Teri (41:14.613)
Sleepy.
Lauren (41:22.938)
Shaddy.
Vanessa (41:28.47)
even act when they're on, like when they're drinking alcohol. It's very interesting.
Lauren (41:30.406)
And I think it's, I mean, it's, as we've all said, it's true of so many things related to our body and our, and how our body takes on something, whatever that is. And so if, if nothing else, if the Surgeon General warning, if it does get printed on labels, if that does get passed, you know, it'll, if nothing else, maybe make people more curious about
Wilhelmina (41:31.675)
Yeah.
Teri (41:43.263)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (41:58.66)
Yes.
Lauren (41:58.992)
how they are interacting or how they are metabolizing in the same way that we're all doing with every aspect of our health, I hope, right? I mean, so that could be a positive that comes from this.
Teri (42:00.146)
Okay.
Vanessa (42:05.902)
Yeah, absolutely.
Wilhelmina (42:06.267)
Yep.
Wilhelmina (42:13.911)
I wrote down this quote in one of the books. was, Terry was one that we had talked about, the Beyond Booze one, which we can link because that's a good one. But it said, alcohol is the solution we have created for the initial problem. So the problems that we're having, we have made alcohol the solution instead of being like, wait, maybe I am just lonely. Maybe I am just.
Teri (42:20.501)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Vanessa (42:23.522)
Yes, that'd be great.
Teri (42:40.597)
Bored.
Wilhelmina (42:40.831)
bored, maybe I am just anxious, maybe I am just sort of sad, whatever it is, we think that alcohol will make us feel less of those things. And maybe it does for like a heartbeat, but then it seems like actually it makes usually it makes it then worse eventually like the next day or later that day. And so I think we need to stop and say, if we're drinking, choose to drink for whatever reason you're choosing.
Teri (43:08.231)
Intentionally. Yes.
Wilhelmina (43:09.325)
Intentionally, mindfully and intentionally, you know, I'm going out with my husband and I want a nice glass of wine. Great. I'm not I'm going out with my friends and I want to have fun. So I'm going to drink to have fun or I'm bored tonight. So I'm going to open a bottle of wine. No, like that's not going to help your boredom. It might seem like it's helping your boredom, but it's probably not going to help your board.
Vanessa (43:09.632)
Yeah, yeah, that's a one. Yeah.
Lauren (43:30.342)
But even if you're aware that that's what you're doing, that's a lot further than, because then it doesn't sneak up on you. You know you're bored, right? I talk about in therapy with my patients, don't dirty your pain. And that's like what it sounds like you're describing. It's like this idea of like, there's an initial something. And that's not always true, by the way. Sometimes you're just enjoying a glass of wine and it's as simple as that. And we have to hold space for that piece.
Wilhelmina (43:33.903)
That's true. I am doing this because
Vanessa (43:34.904)
doing this right.
Teri (43:35.392)
Yes.
Vanessa (43:38.35)
All right. All right.
Wilhelmina (43:46.753)
Mm-hmm. I like that. Yes.
Teri (43:46.878)
Hmm.
Wilhelmina (43:54.957)
Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely.
Teri (43:59.051)
No, I didn't.
Lauren (43:59.322)
But if you are utilizing it for other purposes, it's just like any kind of avoidance technique. It's like, OK, but your anxiety is still going to be there. As long as you're aware that you're dirtying up your anxiety right now, then you can get somewhere with it. And so it's like you said, that awareness piece, that intentionality piece.
Vanessa (44:06.83)
Absolutely. Right.
Wilhelmina (44:09.179)
Is it? Is it?
Vanessa (44:20.718)
I think because it's legal, right? Like it's not, like you're not consuming something that's illegal, like, right? It's legal. And so it's, there's this, it kind of takes away the like negative, right? It's like, well, how could something so bad be so readily available to us?
Lauren (44:23.098)
Yeah. Yeah.
Teri (44:33.395)
And also so pretty, I think. Like it's so pretty, like a glass of champagne at a nice restaurant. Yes. Yeah.
Lauren (44:36.144)
But you know, we can, yeah, right. The way it's marketed or, yeah. But we could say that about anything, right?
Vanessa (44:41.55)
Yeah. Oh yeah. I mean, yeah. It's so fancy. It's like fancy, right? Like, all of it.
Wilhelmina (44:42.095)
Yes. I mean, think of a scandal.
Teri (44:46.655)
Yes, it's classy.
Wilhelmina (44:48.005)
Think about Scandal, the movie or the TV show Scandal. mean, wine was like her co-star, right? Like she would come home dressed in her white. Everything was white. I'm like, and then she's drinking this giant glass of red wine, wine and popcorn. And it was like, that was part of her thing. She made it look so classy and elegant. like, it was literally her co-star.
Lauren (44:50.246)
I'm nervous.
Lauren (44:59.66)
Wasn't it popcorn too? Wine and popcorn? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
But it's like, that's true of anything though. You can take exercise, which is a really healthy thing to do. And outside of moderation, right, and that's what we're talking about, right? Outside of moderation, it's not necessarily a good thing. So you just have to like, going back to Tiri and Wilhelmina, what you both just said about like being mindful and intentional about like, why am I doing this? And then I think you're okay with most things.
Vanessa (45:18.498)
Make it
Vanessa (45:35.416)
Right. Yeah. Right. Agreed.
Wilhelmina (45:38.757)
Yes, yes.
Lauren (45:39.534)
It's when we sort of lose that mindfulness, lose that, you know, in the moment, present moment, thinking that we get in trouble with anything, frankly.
Teri (45:48.107)
Well, and it's funny because I've like, think I've said, I who I said this to, I was like, I feel like if I didn't experience hangovers at all and I slept well, I would probably carry on and keep drinking regularly. But it's like, I started to reach a point where it was taking away more than it was giving. And that was sort of the phrase that like popped in my head one day. I'm like, it's just taking more than it's giving. Like it doesn't feel worth it, but it's also something that I thought I would never, if you told me,
Wilhelmina (45:48.261)
Well,
Wilhelmina (45:57.047)
you've said this to me. Yeah.
Lauren (46:08.101)
Yeah.
Vanessa (46:08.238)
Right. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (46:13.135)
Mm-hmm.
Teri (46:18.107)
years ago, three years ago, like you're going to take a break. I'd be like, never. And I remember my Aunt Donna, my Aunt Donox, I know she listens. She calls this the shakedown and then she remembers that it's the shrink down.
Lauren (46:25.71)
Mm-hmm. I love that.
Vanessa (46:27.214)
Well, the name came from a bar called the Get Down Zone. Anyway.
Teri (46:32.971)
Yeah. And she was like, I remember years ago, she started calling herself to drink Donna. She's like, I'm to drink Donna. I stick to two drinks because I just don't feel good. And she had a variety of reasons. And I remember thinking like, interesting. Like, does that happen? Like for women as they get older. And in the last year or two, I was like, okay. And it seemed to happen quickly. I was talking to another friend about it. It seemed the way my body
Lauren (46:34.266)
You
Lauren (46:40.379)
Yeah.
Lauren (46:49.402)
Thank you.
Vanessa (46:50.914)
Yes, It sure does.
Lauren (46:57.446)
Overnight. Yeah.
Teri (46:58.847)
Like overnight, the way my body deals with alcohol, I'm like, my gosh, like it's like a switch went off or something.
Vanessa (47:03.224)
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
Wilhelmina (47:05.903)
Well, the quote that's also in that one book, and I like, and I think this goes along with the like, mindfulness, intentional, choose your heart. So like, so choose it, you know, like, and, you know, is it gonna be, today I'm just gonna be bored? Is it gonna be, today I'm gonna drink and I'm not gonna sleep very well, but I'm just gonna do it? Okay. Because guess what?
Lauren (47:15.46)
Yeah, I love that quote. Yes.
Vanessa (47:16.386)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a good one.
Wilhelmina (47:32.077)
have had great memories of nights out drinking with you, with you girls. So I mean, many, So like, I won't, it doesn't, I sort of wish there could be both, right? Like I wish it didn't have to be so complicated and it just feels like, right. Choose your heart.
Teri (47:33.739)
Thank you. Many, many, many.
Lauren (47:35.046)
Yeah! Yeah!
Vanessa (47:35.576)
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Teri (47:44.073)
Yes.
Lauren (47:46.054)
But such is life, right? Choose your heart. Yeah. Yeah. We find great breakfast spots to go to the next day. you know.
Vanessa (47:48.236)
Yeah, absolutely. Choose your heart.
Wilhelmina (47:53.593)
We do. that one in Savannah was so good. And remember our waiter who looked really young and then was like closer to our age? And we were like.
Vanessa (47:54.018)
We do.
Lauren (47:58.216)
God
Lauren (48:01.606)
I hate that.
Teri (48:03.989)
Well, that's a whole other topic is your perception of age as you age. What you consider to be old, who looks old, who looks young. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (48:05.88)
Ha!
Lauren (48:08.998)
Ooh, I love that topic.
Vanessa (48:09.445)
yeah. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (48:14.457)
You mean when I see babies driving? I'm like, what is that six-year-old driving a car? it's not a six-year-old.
Vanessa (48:18.478)
my goodness. Any more thoughts on today's topic, ladies?
Lauren (48:20.678)
They're 25.
Teri (48:29.437)
No, I think my only parting thoughts would be if sober curiosity is something you want to explore, I would do exactly what we just touched on, like just be curious. Like, what am I doing right now? Which heart am I choosing? Am I willing to be bored? Am I willing to fill in the blank? And then I would also really avoid the countdown trap and I would stay present. I wouldn't countdown day. I think that's how, I think for so, for the,
Lauren (48:30.352)
I love that.
Teri (48:57.897)
Sober curiosity specifically, this is not alcohol use disorder, anything related to that, but sober curiosity, don't count like, it's been 20 days, 25 days. And also don't count to when you think you're gonna have your next drink after your break period. I would just be very present and like curious in terms of just let's see what I feel like and what I feel like doing.
Wilhelmina (49:20.291)
And you know, I also will say that if you are wanting to play around with it or cut back or stop the reframe app. Called reframe. Yes, it is great because one it's not there's no preachiness to it and you can choose. Do I want to just learn? Do I want to cut back? Do I want to stop?
Teri (49:32.29)
I've seen that. I haven't used it, but I've seen it. Yes.
Wilhelmina (49:45.367)
and you can choose and it's not gonna and it very much talks about it's just educating you and it's really making you it's giving you kind of the health aspects but it's also just like let's explore your own habits and your own stuff and it has you like read some stuff it has you do journaling it has you do like a whole bunch of things and you're really the driver of it it's not like a it's not a quit alcohol app unless that's what you're using it for so i've recommended that
Teri (49:58.027)
Okay.
Wilhelmina (50:14.043)
to many people because I think it's a helpful way to, it's sort of a focused way to start to like pay attention.
Teri (50:20.127)
Think about it more, yeah.
Vanessa (50:21.262)
Well, we'll post the books that we've recommended, the app, and then if there's anything else we think of afterwards on our website. Will Amina remind me what is our website?
Wilhelmina (50:31.771)
I think it's just www.theshrinktown.com. Yeah. Yeah.
Vanessa (50:35.031)
Okay, perfect. Well, thank you. Yeah, we'll put all the links on there if anyone's check it out and we'll link our faves on Instagram. Thank you today for joining us and please join us next time on the shrink down.
Lauren (50:36.41)
We can link it though. We'll link it.