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Meaningful stories and conversations from the fringe of societal norms.
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back. We have the pleasure today of sitting down with, uh, Colin
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operations manager here at West bank
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and, uh, Keith Rose
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managing director at blue Safari,
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Alphonse fishing company, that's a, that's a recent change. Um, Colin runs all things at West bank anglers and was recently on, uh, the episode about Mexico gave kind of a more formal background, originally from Virginia, but out, out this way for 10 plus years. And Keith Keith's resume. Um, I'm going to give it a shot. It's, it's pretty impressive. Um, you know, 30 plus years in the fly fishing industry guide host videographer, lodge owner, uh, manufacturer, um, pioneer explorer, and, and the list goes on. Um, and well, thank you guys for coming. Appreciate it. Happy to be here. Yeah, great to be here.
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Yeah. It's, um, you know, this, this is, uh, this is exciting, right? Because the Seychelles, um, you know, near and dear to my heart. I mean, I'm sure Keith and Colin, you guys both get this question often, you know, when someone realizes that you work in the fly fishing industry for better, for worse, right? Um, they, uh, they always want to know like where, what's, what's the best place you've ever been? What's your favorite fishing trip? Your favorite, your favorite fish. And you know, a lot of that, a lot of those answers for me, at least come, come back to the Seychelles and, um, you know, some early trips there with Keith's company, uh, you know, one in particular, probably, you know, one of the best trips I've ever taken in my life. And, um, and then also, you know, on the flip side of that, right? It's not like, uh, you guys have a different weather system there, right? So you can, you can, you can get over that way and experience, you know, a cyclone, which I have a couple of times as well, but, um, and, and going off of that, you know, Colin's first trip, when he said he wanted to go there, I was like, well, you're kinda, you're kinda jumping right into the big leagues and he knew it and he wanted to do it. And he did it. And, um, I don't know, it was, it was really infectious, um, because he came back Keith and he was just glowing. I mean, it was like, at one point I was like working in my office and I'm like, wow, I mean, it was like, it was like he, uh, just met his first girlfriend. It was, uh, it was amazing, but you know, it would, um, before we get to far, I think, you know, a lot of, a lot of anglers know about the Seychelles. They've been to the Seychelles and if they haven't been, they want to go. But I've been surprised at how many people don't know where it is and exactly, and maybe Keith, if we could start with kind of a, you know, an over an overview of all of your operations, you know, and then Colin will, will obviously get to Cosmolito in particular, but, um, I think it's important cause it's not, you know, it's not just one operation. So if you could, if you could kind of give the listeners a general overboard. Overview. Wow. Overboard.
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Overboards are so good. I can give them a overboard overview. Um, yeah, so the Seychelles is on the East coast of Africa. It's, uh, it's just above Medi, Medigusca. It comprises of 115 islands. Look, some of those islands aren't quite islands, but you know, the most important thing to remember is that it's atolls. So, um, you know, when you close the main island, the main island that you're flying to from where you come from, it's kinetic. So it's got mountains and it's, it's quite lush and lavish, but once you start coming to the South towards Medigusca,
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it becomes a coral atolls. So, uh, you know, flat atolls, I think the highest point on these islands, probably a couple of meters. So, you know, and, and, and it's, they all form from, from coral. So volcanoes, millions and millions of years ago. And, uh, as they subsided into the seabed, the coral grew up to the ocean, uh, top, and then obviously the deposits, uh, um, then, then formed on top of the islands grew. So you've got these, these wonderful white, uh, white atolls and lagoons. Um, and, you know, the closest atoll, which we fish, uh, from Mahe, the main island is, is about a half an hour flat. Uh, you can, you can sail, it will take you 14 hours on, on one of our boats, uh, liver boards, but, uh, otherwise you would fly, you would fly in and it's about a half an hour flat. So it's quite, quite a distance, about 110 nautical miles from, from Mahe to the, to the Northwest. Um, and, uh, the, the closer atolls you generally fish, um, have got, have had a little bit more pressure from, from obviously, um, fishing people, because obviously they're close to the main islands. And as you kind of move your way out a little bit further out there, the fishing tends to get a little bit, uh, wilder for the big species and so forth. So the closer, the closer atolls we fish are,
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cannon ring, which we can get massive close to the atolls and we predominantly fish for Indo-Pacific permits. Um, you will see GTs, you will see triggers, you will see bonefish, but that's, that's, that's your, your pervert junky destination. You know, uh, some days you can get, you know, hundreds of shots. Sometimes you can get none as you know, you know, all your, all your pervert junkies out there, but it really is one of the most amazing places because it's, it's on foot.
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and you know, if you fish a place like Poivre, they are technical fish. They, they are hard to catch. You'll see a lot. Um, and, and they do mess with your mind. So it is a wonderful, it is a wonderful place to be. I mean, I've been there. I fished a whole week. I must have fished to 600 fish. I didn't even get one to look at my fly. I mean, I've got a couple of followers maybe, but you know, and then you can go back, then you can get three fish in a row. So it is really one of those most beautiful, spectacular places, small islands, atolls, um, you know, white sand, plus obviously broken coral and so forth. So amazing place as you, as you work, work out more to the south, um, our next island or atoll, um, and I mean, I
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that it's, it's got our biggest hotel. So we've got a small resort. It's, it's still a lodge, but it's a small resort and it's a destination which, which appeals to everybody. Um, you know, we, we, we entirely invite, uh, families, you know, your, your non-fishing partner or your fishing partner. We've got wonderful spas and pools and, and, and villas and so forth. But the beautiful thing about Alphonse is that it's got the most magnificent atoll, uh, right next to it. Alphonse is an atoll, you can fish it, but a short boat run across to, to, uh, St. Francois and you've got this amazing atoll, which is, uh, it's got the most amount of white sand than all of the other atolls.
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it's got the biggest population of, of boatfish. It's got a great population of inner Pacific permits, incredible population
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of triggerfish. And there's also got
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a decent population of,
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giant trevally.
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and you know, it's close proximity to a beautiful, um, lodge or, or, or resort or whatever you want to call it, but it's never been inhabited. So it's frozen in time. It's protected. It's amazing. And you know, you can know, you know, if you want to come for a hardcore fishing trip and fish from Dauntel dusk, you could have it there, but also if you want to come in more of a sort of casual trip and, and, and, uh, bring your non-fishing partner or your fishing partner and, or family, you could do that as well there. And you'll be taken well, taken care of in, in barefoot luxury. But you know, it's the beautiful thing about, about, about Alphonse is situated right in the middle. So it's a nice little stepping stone. So if you want to go out, go to the further, uh, the atolls further to the south,
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not, I wouldn't say so more wild, but the further out atolls. Um, you can, you can pop, pop into Alphonse for two or three days and enjoy yourself before you can, you can let the jet lag, uh, weigh off a little bit. Um, and you can catch a hell of a lot of bonefish. You know, it really is known as the, as, as having one of the biggest populations of bonefish in the Indian ocean.
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and there's some really good, good size of bonefish as well, not your little macro bonefish.
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and, and, and also it's a destination where you can, you can target all the species, you know, it's the one destination in the Indian ocean that accounts for more milkfish caught every year on fly than all destinations around the world put together. You know, some days we catch, you know, upwards of double fingers, you know, and you know, when you're catching upwards of double fingers in milkfish, you know, that you're hooking, you know, three, three zeros behind it properly. Sorry, two zeros behind it probably. So you probably hook here about a hundred, a hundred milkfish that had 20 milkfish if you've had a, if you've had a good time, a lucky time. So, uh, you know, when you've got, when you've got this wonderful place stuck in the middle of all the other atolls that you, that you offer, you know, it's an arsenal stepping stone. All flights fly via alphonse. They stop over at alphonse. You can have in a breakfast break and then they move on to the other destinations.
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Um, starting then, obviously moving down more south, but more, more south to southeast, uh, where, where
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have an extra species, uh, uh, over and above the other species that the, uh, the Northern and the, and the West E atolls have in that we catch puppet pair fish there. So the oompa loompa of the flats, the smooves, um, big, big blue cows.
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Yeah. Um, and, uh, yeah, that's one of the main, one of the draw cards of going to those, those places is, is targeting the bumpets. But the destinations to the, to the Southeast, um, I mean, they, they all, all these axles are very different. So everyone says to me, well, what's, what's your most favorite atoll? And that's, it's hard to, hard to answer that because they're also different and they all have unique aspects to them. Um, that will, will, will create, uh, you know, incredible experiences out there. You know, it'll draw you to that destination. But one of the, one of the draw cards of, of, uh, Farquhar is obviously, I don't know if you've been, anyone seen it or if you, anyone on this, on this show has seen it, but it's the place where they, they formed group planet two, which is where the giant to belly eat the turds. Um, and, uh, I was fortunate to be the first person to ever see it. Um, when I went down there in 2001, um, I had a, at that stage, I was, I was guarding eight people, um, all at once. And, um, there was an Australian gentleman and, and the birds were flying around in the background and he made a terrible cost and hooked a bird in his back cost and obviously, you know, with the weight of the fly on the bird landing in the water and as the land in the water, GT jumped out the water and ate this bird. And I thought, my goodness, um, uh, what's just happened? Obviously, you know, it struck a whole bunch of line off and because the hook was buried in the bird and the, you know, it basically came out, but that sort of sparked a sort of response to seeing the splashes around me. And I was like, well, I wonder what, what these fish are actually doing because I don't think they're eating bait fish. And, uh, you know, within, within a couple hours, I saw my first, uh, GT eat actual bird, you know, out of the, out of the air, not, not swimming out of the air. And, and, uh, I went back to the locals. There was, there was six locals on the island. Um, there was onion inhabitants there. Now I asked them the question and I thought I was crazy because they obviously, in those days they were still cropping, uh, so they would go across there and they would pick up eggs to eat, but, uh, um, they'd never seen it before. So I thought, okay, well maybe, maybe I am the first person to see it, but I like to think it anyway,
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yeah, so they're from, uh, blue planet to the, uh, on, on, on Goulette where these, these big giant valley and still today they do the same thing in September. They, they, they eat all the fledging things and the, and the birds, which are picking up saltwater to put it on the island, uh, before they lay the eggs. So it is an incredible place. Now all these, all these destinations in the Seychelles are all frozen in time. Tom, you know, uh, they are within 90% of what you would have, would have experienced 200 years ago. And in some cases they better than what they would have been spent 200 years ago, because 200 years ago, there was the sailors moving through and they're picking up all sorts of, uh, um, marine creatures and so forth to eat. So, uh, these, these places are all wild and wonderful.
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and they know Farquhar is, is an amazing place in the sense that it's got a lodge, we cater for 10, 10 anglers per, uh, per week. And we do a maximum of 22 weeks a year. We aren't fishing a day longer or a day more than that.
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all our destinations are the same kind of skiffs and guards and they're really, really, really good guards. Guys have been trained out there and about, about passing your stuff. Um, and they've got all the good equipment, the equipment that you need in these remote destinations to put you in front of the fish, you know, as much as possible, um, you know, we, we get at Farquhar it's got all the species. So we've got the bumphead. We've got the giant trevally bluefin trevally,
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barracuda,
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in the Pacific permit, and then you've obviously got all the other species offshore, like, you know, you've got selfish and, and, and Dr. Chin and, and why and so forth. But you know, it, it is a great place because of, of, of the amount of white sand that it has, and then obviously the house crops. So it's, it's right there on the top, in the top of it should be right there. The top of someone's bucket list. Um, and then
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miles, you get providons. Now providons is, uh, um, uh, the longest atoll. It's, um, it's about 30 kilometers from north to south.
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and it's, it's probably the, I guess, atoll in the socials, if I can say it that way, in the sense that it's, it's, it's a long strip of, uh, broken coral and turtle grass with two, with a little bit of beauty in the south, we've got, uh, uh, four sand islands, uh, that, that, um, you know, I've got a lot of white sand, white sand around them, but it's also a destination where bump it, uh, parafish or, or, or court. Um, and you know, a lot of people refer to it as probably the least explored at all.
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in the sense that,
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you know, we've fished it for many years.
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but only from a Liverpool, because there is no lodge there.
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because of the lay of the land and it's a very narrow atoll, it's very hard to find your way into the, into the, uh, atoll without getting, getting trapped. So you can, if you can imagine, if you, if you midway, uh, in, in, uh, provenance, you won't be able to see north or south.
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You've got no landmarks. It was hard tarts. So basically you, you utilize a GPS coordinates and as that a tard for falls off, you then find yourself inside, inside a lagoon, but with the title change, no swing tarts, you know, um, you can get stuck in there. And if you get stuck in there inside that, inside that lagoon, you're going to probably spend the night there. So as, as, as things have changed over the years and as, uh, South Africans have learned how to poll and we've got better boats and, uh, and engines and so forth, lighter boats, we've, we've started to push the boundaries, um, and, and, uh, find ourselves in hidden lagoons. We call them hidden lagoons where, you know, you have big, big schools, a big, big, uh, uh, giant valley, but, um, more importantly, one of the most incredible species to catch there is, is Napoleon. And we get very big Napalians and you can, there's a lot of them and you can, in these, in these, uh, um, hidden lagoons, you can find a really, really, a very, really good shots of them, whether you land them or not. That's it's another story because obviously they're big and powerful and they, they like to go back into the coral heart. Um, but yeah, I mean, it is one of those species that's, it's, it's, uh, truly amazing to fish for. Um, and sometimes you get them right up on this, on the flats now with the, the tails, the tails up. And the only way you can tell between whether it's a bump head or a, or a Napoleon is because the Napoleon's dorsal will move. It'll move like that. It's almost like a fans fans. Whereas, uh, you know, obviously a bumpy, he'll just be static and he'll push his tail up in the air a little bit more. Yeah. So that that's, that's a problem. I'd say we, we, we, we fish on board a, uh, a, uh, a little board, a big level board, we have six skiffs, which we put in the water, all the poles. We've got, um, a boat called Myers do gone
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can accommodate. We only accommodate up to 10 anglers. Um, and you can, you can fish fish as a partner or you can fish single. Um, and what we do is you move the boats around the, the atoll fishing different destinations, obviously different areas targeting onto onto onto the flats.
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Um, yeah, really, really beautiful. So then moving along from there, uh, we moved to the, to the west and you all find yourself in a place called
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atoll in the sense that it's, it's, uh, it's that it's an atoll, which has, has, has got quite a few mosquitoes. Um, and it's a, it's an atoll, which you need to be physically healthy for it. It is truly for me, it is the most pure form of flat fly fishing. Um, you'll get, you have to walk for your fish.
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and when you,
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find your fish, you have to catch them on foot and you have to fight them on foot. So none of the fishing around the atoll or very, very little bit is done from, from, from boats. Uh, when the tide is in, we'll, we'll, we'll pull a little bit. We'll push the skiffs around, but generally they used to get you into the position and then you're going to walk. Um, and then we actually use a safari vehicle quite a bit where we, we move you around to different places where you'll fish from the shore, uh, for GTs in the surf, um, but being dropped off by a vehicle rather than, than, uh, by a boat. But the unique thing about, but a stove is that it's got this, uh, it's got this large lagoon surrounded, completely surrounded by land with one small entrance or mouth is that we call it. So everything that's going inside in and out of that lagoon has to pass through that area. So it's obviously a bottleneck for the, for the predatory species of fish, the big Jeets and
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big sharks. Um, and so what happens is that the tide, because of the, the apex and the, and the, the sheer sort of, uh, angle of the apex, the water falls out the lagoon for 11 hours and when it turns around to push in, it builds against this apex and floods in for one hour all the way up into the lagoon. So it's quite a unique, unique experience to be in that bottleneck area. When, when the flood actually, uh, when the flood actually pushes all the water into the lagoon, it's almost like a little bit of a standing sort of wave. Um, depending on the tides, obviously, but yeah, it's going to have a healthy population of bonefish, really nice bonefish. It's got a very good population of, of, of, of in the Pacific permit.
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around, around the island is sheer drop-offs. It's, uh, it's, uh, it's where Jacques Cousteau formed a portion of the silent war as the silent world on the wall side. So you've got this predatory fish, this big, this big fish to be very close to the floods. Um, and yeah, it's got an official shore as well. So it's, it really is an all round, all round experience. It doesn't have bumped bonefish and like, you know, far quite providence, providence does. And then obviously if you, if you, that's the area, that's the, the, the, the, the atoll where you will fly into, if you're going to cosmonetto, you can fly directly into, into a stove. Um, to the, to the west of a stove, we have
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seabird colony in the Indian Ocean.
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Right now, as we speak, it's got, it's got about 500,000 pairs of sooty turns flying around, making a noise, getting ready to, ready to nest.
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Um, and it's also got a hell of a lot of seabird, uh, seabirds, which nest on the, on the islands during various times of the year. It's got all the different species of, of, of boobies, got pink footed, uh, boobies, got the brown booby, the moss booby. Um, it really is a, an amazing, uh, spectacle for a bird aspect. But, um, I'm sure a lot of people have, have, uh, seen the movie
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we had built the lodge. And, um, yeah, it, it, that, that, that movie basically encapsulates what Cosmo Lido is about. It is the GT capital of the world. Um, it has its challenges like every atoll does, it's fishing. Um, but it is without doubt the GT capital of the world. But not only is it the GT capital of the world, it's also a big bonefish destination. So, you know, you might not get as many shots as bonefish there, but you generally have a good chance of catching a 10 pounder there. Um, it has all the other species. It has the, the, the tricky fit, all the tricky fish species, uh, yellow margin, uh, mustache, uh, tricky fish to Picasso's has Barracuda. Uh, it has, uh, um, a lot of fish or a different fish offshore, uh, species of fish, group of snapper, all the species that you can experience at the other places as well. But it is a place which is frozen in town.
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And, uh, eight years ago, we, we got the nod to build a eco camp. So what we did is we, we built a, uh, a containerized eco camp where we prefabricated, uh, high cube, 20 foot high cube shipping containers off sites and, uh, insulated them, cut the, cut the backs open so they could fold open to make bathrooms and fold open in the front to make decks. Um, we incorporated, uh, some tent tops, um, some cladding and so forth. And we, uh, said about me, we built this place and we built it in 21 days. Uh, we installed it and the, the main, the main area is a tent on beach sand. Um, and you step out of your container, which is a fully, uh, you know, air condition and, and any, everything that you need. But while you're in these, these, these eco pods, what we call them, it almost feels like you camping on the sand. So it's a very unique experience. Um, you know, something that I haven't felt in a lot of places, um, you know, especially when you hear the birds around you and you so close to your fishing, you know, we've got deep water close by where the skiffs, you know, right next to the lodge, you know, the, in the morning, when you walk out to a commendational from the tent, you literally step out a hundred yards or so and you, you're on your skiff and you're out for the day. Um, and you're fishing these, these, these islands are 20 different islands, you know, and there's, there's so much going on now in a day, you can be out there and you, you could have fished for five or six different species of, of, of fish, which we target on the flats and the shallow water. And at the same time, we have not seen anybody else. So, you know, it is an amazing place. It is remote. It is protected. Um, and yeah, I mean, I can talk about all these destinations.
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It excites me, as you say, I mean, um, you know, when, when, when Cole came back from, from Cosmo, he was, he was all lit up and glowing. And I, I feel the same every time I talk about it, you know, it does excite me. And then the basic thing about the destination is that, no, by anybody that goes there, the presence that we have there is protecting these places. Every person that comes out there, $30 of the, of the, the revenue goes towards a $30 a day of the revenue goes towards the, the foundations that we set up to protect these places, you know, um, there's always a question is asked that is your presence protecting these places? And we can honestly say so because without us there, you know, there's all the commercial fishing, um, that happens, you know, it's so close to Madagascar and Camors that the boats can be over there in four or five hours. So having us there, you know, policing the area, uh, you know, Azen here is there, that we're able to, to deter anything from happening. And since we've been there, we've seen the improvement. There was, there was a, a stage where, you know, you could see the turtles and, uh, and the birds and the, and the fish were being, were being targeted by the Malagasy and the Camorian people. And thankfully, you know, every time it happens now, um, we're able to put a stop to it almost immediately by the, by assistance from the coast guard. So, um, you know, we, we believe that we're making a, uh, you know, we, we believe by, by inviting people, you know, Angles, you guys to come in and experience the socials with us, we really are making a difference in protecting these places, uh, let me shut up for a little while.
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Yeah. And, um, well, I mean, in the grand scheme of things, right? Like if, if you're fighting off the commercial Anglers, we're making progress. Right. Cause the, the pirate, the pirate days are over. So, um, so we're, so we're moving in the right direction, right? Um, yeah, I mean, it's a great recap of all the destinations. I've been fortunate enough to, you know, go to, go to all of them, um, that you mentioned and, and for a good reason, um, several of them, you know, two or three times and, um, yeah, I mean, I, I think Colin, what, what I'd like to hear from you is, you know, I mean, I'll never forget, I think it was 2004, 2005 when I landed on Alphonse, you know, as a, as a young person in this industry, I was just kind of floored. What was, what were your, your first impressions of, uh, of all of it? Yeah, definitely. floored, I would say it was a lot of, uh, even disbelief, like, I don't know. I've dreamed of going there for so long and, um, yeah, it was kind of hard to, hard to ball it up. Um, but yeah, I mean, that would be the goal, obviously is to go eventually see all of them, but starting with one was, um, was a dream come true. And, um, it is, it really is like the Galapagos.
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have that ability to, to take it all in the place where you are, you're so far away from everything else. You know, if something had to happen to the rest of the world, you would never know. You know, and you're out there and you're targeting fish and you're having the best time, but you know, the thing is that a lot of people don't understand, you know, the excitement of it all is that it's, it's, you know, saltwater is, is the adrenaline rush, especially in a place like the Seychelles, if it's your first trip, there's so many different things that happen at the same time. It's almost like it's at times it can be too much, you know, so you've actually just got to slow, slow it all down and it just like take one as it comes, you know, as you know, I'm sure you would have experienced, you know, you could have been holding a boat fish rod next minute, there's a GT and next minute, there's a trick I know, there's a bermit. And in a, in a, you haven't even made a cost, you just stand there with a rod in your hand, you don't know what's going on, you know, so.
[01:28:17:02 - 01:28:43:23]
Yeah, that's, that's super human ability to just slow things down in your mind. You know, matrix, you know, then you can do well, but it does, it does get better than the second trip. Yeah. That's like what happened on the first day I was fishing with Trevor and we caught a Jeep early in the morning. And first one, it was incredible. Like I was like, expectations already blown out of the water. Like I'm done.
[01:28:45:09 - 01:29:04:10]
And, but we were, he was pulling along and had a G rod in my hand and then a trigger would pop up, but I had the trigger rod strung out behind me. So I grabbed the trigger rod and then a G would pop up and then G rod was in the hand and the trigger would pop up. And it's like, all right, let's just put one of these rods down and just let's go for one of these things because this is just ridiculous.
[01:29:05:18 - 01:29:06:09]
Yeah, that's good.
[01:29:08:05 - 01:31:27:16]
Yeah. And, um, Keith, I don't even think I've asked you, I mean, like, like we talked about briefly before we hopped on. I mean, there, there's a lot, you know, it's pretty cool. I mean, you know, not going to meet too many people that have fished where, you know, you've fished, I've fished in Bhutan, um, Tanzania, right. Cameroon, et cetera. But when was your first trip to, um, the Seychelles cause you'd been there 20 plus years, right? Yeah. So in 1997 was my first trip. Actually my first trip was 1995, but my, my first trip back to actually start and, and, and look at getting into gardening was 1997. So that means the next year is my 30th, 30th year. This is my 29th year in the Seychelles. Um, that's amazing. You know, and, and, and I still, I still remember the first day I stepped, stepped in the flats, um, there, and it was like that situation of, I didn't have a guard. So I didn't know what was going on. I didn't know what I was costing it, but it's that, it's that situation where there's just too much happening. Um, and, uh, you know, uh, yeah, since then I went, I went, I was, I was lucky in the sense that my father, um, decided that he was going to go with a bunch of mates. We actually invited our trip with a bunch of mates to go game fishing. My father was a big game fisherman back in the days. And I tagged along, he managed or he, or my mother managed to convince him to take me with, uh, and, uh, I tagged along and, uh, I dropped, I was dropped off on, on St. Joseph's, um, and to do some bone fishing and, uh, I rocked up there. And in 1995, I think it was, um, with a 21 gear ratio salmon reel, uh, New Zealand kill, kill while, uh, uh, seven way, rather than being broken off in the fan and probably 11 way fly line. And, uh, you know, uh, 20, 20, 22 pound, um, Maxima chameleon and the flesh has fly tight on a, tight on a, uh, um, on a, on a, uh, a mustard, uh, a smack hook, you know, and, uh, chasing these, these things that are tailing, you know, so it's, uh, it was a, it was a learning curve, but for me, the light bulb moment was, um, after I'd been working in, in, in, in London, um, I was working in a place called follows follows, which is the oldest, uh, fly fishing store in Europe. And I got invited to a place called Clipperton. Um,
[01:31:27:16 - 01:31:47:01]
1999 around there and, uh, Clipperton's a thousand nautical miles off, uh, Baja. Um, so we, we, I was lucky enough to, as a shop assistant to get this trip basically for free. And I went across and we jumped to this trip and it was, it was hosted by Trey Coombs and all these big shots.
[01:31:47:01 - 01:31:58:10]
I'm just as younger, not, no, no, no one's going on. And we went across and it took us four days to get to Clipperton in the Pacific to fish for, for world's, uh, world record size bluefin trevally.
[01:31:58:10 - 01:33:48:04]
I went across there and while standing on the flats there, it was just like a slight bulb, uh, moments. I was just like, you know, it's taken me literally six days to get you we on a, on a big, um, live aboard, uh, tuna boat, uh, which I don't even know what the trip cost must have cost a fortune. And, you know, you've got all these, the boat is full and you've got these dedicated people and they're going out there walking miles and miles. You know, just came dropped from the beach fishing for, for bluefin trevally. And, uh, I was going to be, you know, of all things bluefin trevally, I mean, they, they, you know, some, some, some stages you try to get away from in the seychelles, you know, you don't want to cost it. And, uh, I was like, well, there's definitely a business to be had here in the seychelles if, if that's the case, if you have these kind of, these kind of guests, they went to play this kind of money trevally this far to catch bluefin trevally. I mean, we've got giant trevally, we've got, you know, big bonefish, we've got a trigger fish, you've got all of the above. So that was when, when I focused, uh, I believe that, you know, it was the place to go and, uh, um, I need to focus my, my energy on, on the seychelles. Although I'd been there numerous times before. Um, I was at that stage, I was guarding in, in, in Russia, uh, on the Panoi river. Um, so, um, I was figuring it out. Now, how'd you become a, how did we become a guard? Uh, you know, um, went beyond the years, just thinking shut the, the best thing, the best guys just catch the most amount of fish. But, you know, after, after a couple of seasons, you realize it's not just about catching fish. It's about making sure the guy has a great time without catching fish. So, um, you know, and then slowly started picking up, you know, context and meeting people and understanding how the, how the community works and, and, and having these relationships with agents and, and, uh, just stepping stones and, uh, 2000, I would say that around 2001 was really when I started making
[01:33:48:04 - 01:34:03:02]
um, if it are in, in starting, uh, um, a proper business in the seychelles. Um, whereas before I'd been, I mean, guiding trips out there, hosting trips out there, doing numerous trips, but, but not, not significant enough to actually get your foot in the door in a significant way. That makes sense.
[01:34:03:02 - 01:34:08:11]
obviously you know that, uh, Alphonse was, uh, was built in 1999, opened up in 2000.
[01:34:08:11 - 01:34:13:06]
and that was obviously probably the first proper,
[01:34:13:06 - 01:34:19:14]
commercial fly fishing operation in the seychelles. Whereas, you know, people had been fishing out of the rush,
[01:34:19:14 - 01:34:28:21]
coming and going across St. Joe's for many years before that. But the first professional guiding operation in the seychelles,
[01:34:28:21 - 01:34:34:18]
was definitely, definitely Alphonse. And that's where a lot of the lessons were learned. Now a lot of the, a lot of the, the codes were cracked,
[01:34:34:18 - 01:34:40:18]
figuring out what the milkfish catching, learning the refining the, the patterns for trigger fish and so forth.
[01:34:40:18 - 01:34:48:09]
and then, you know, obviously we, we just took it to the next level, um, from a tackle perspective and a fly perspective as we, we branched out to the more southerly atolls.
[01:34:48:09 - 01:36:41:05]
Yeah. Well, and I, and I guess I'd love to stress one thing, which is, I mean, you said it multiple times, um, both of you guys, right? I mean, you got to take it all in because we're going to get to the, your trip calling recently, you know, quickly here at Cosmolito, but if you can't take it all in and you're just super, you know, you're, you're just only solely focused on the fish and the weather doesn't cooperate, you know, you're setting yourself up for, for disappointment, which is unfortunate. Cause it truly is. I mean, as, as Keith's describing, and I have one quick story, you know, about that, about taking it all in. We were, we were on Poivre and we were permit fishing and we were getting our asses kicked and we took a break right there and the, uh, you know, where they cleaned the fish and you've got the old, some old structures. And I'm presuming, which is, was a defunct Marina from the time. And I looked to my left, I'm sitting on a bench and I see, you know, a big GT way out, kind of starting to push right on the shoreline. And, uh, both of you guys, Tim Bruin, I was like, Tim, you know, get, get the rod. He grabs the closest rod and the fish is coming, makes the cast, sets the hook. The whole thing blows up. Everything blows up line snaps. And I just, you know, after I stopped laughing, I was like, that was special. And then I look up and I start to see these birds like starting to congregate around and I was like, the hell are they doing? And then I see another GT and then another GT and you know, we're, we're there with a permit fish and all of a sudden I'm like the birds, the GT Bruins getting blown up. And then the, the GT is just corner of bait ball up against the wall.
[01:36:42:09 - 01:37:36:07]
Sorry. The GT is corner of the bait ball. They spraying bait, you know, the bait's jumping like four feet in the air. Birds are now coming down to pick up the bait. And then I look over to my right and, and the couple of local dudes have buckets and they're already on the way out. I mean, it's just right. I mean, if I was out there, just, I would have never seen that. It was pretty, uh, pretty remarkable how I don't, I don't know if, you know, there's not too many places where you can see everything working in concert like that. Um, and I feel like, you know, you guys have a lot of that, you know, not, I mean, the GTs eating birds, et cetera, et cetera, but, um, Colin, so you guys, you know, walk us through the trip a little bit. No one, no one on the trip had ever been there, right? Um, yeah, one guy had been to Alphonse before, um, but everyone else
[01:37:36:07 - 01:37:54:21]
brand new to it and, um, which I think was special because we all kind of got to share that wow factor we all first, especially walking, even just walking from on the stove to the, to the boat and then getting on the boat, going across and pulling up to Cosmo and no one had, none of us had seen it. So it was kind of, we got to
[01:37:54:21 - 01:38:09:22]
It's really cool. And I mean, that's obviously, I mean, I got to watch it go down and I got to watch you do it in the shop. You obviously you've got to prepare people for these trips. And that's probably like one of the biggest
[01:38:09:22 - 01:38:22:22]
conundrums, right? As if you sell people all this gear and make sure they've got the right stuff. And then the weather goes to shit and they're like, well, glad I, you know, brought all that, bought all that stuff.
[01:38:22:22 - 01:38:58:17]
the flip side is the fishing is really good and they don't, you know, they don't buy enough. So either way you're kind of screwed, but I mean, you know, you, you, you had to walk them through, right? I mean, did everyone, most people probably knew to, you know, you walk us through it, you know, the people listening, if you, if, you know, people haven't gone to the Seychelles before, what do you, what do you, you know, get them? Yeah. Um, that's a tough one. I mean, I myself like to be prepared. So I always buy way too much stuff. I have it all just in case, cause you never know what's going to happen. And,
[01:38:58:17 - 01:39:01:11]
yeah, I was kind of walking a lot of these guys through that. They were like, Hey,
[01:39:01:11 - 01:39:01:19]
[01:39:01:19 - 01:39:10:12]
It's like, well, you never know what's going to happen and you want to have the right stuff. And,
[01:39:10:12 - 01:39:12:12]
say I see it a lot on different trips. And,
[01:39:12:12 - 01:39:28:16]
a classic one is buying all those flies, like you said, and maybe using one the whole time, especially if the fishing is slow or if the fishing is good, hopefully you're running out and, um, which is kind of what was happening. I'd say, especially with the beast flies is, uh, myself and the guides were tying them every night to
[01:39:28:16 - 01:39:31:23]
what we had lost or gotten destroyed.
[01:39:31:23 - 01:39:33:18]
but it's hard. I mean, you can have,
[01:39:33:18 - 01:40:11:23]
I think we all went with sinking lines. I don't think anyone uses sinking line, which is kind of fortunate. I mean, we mostly, you know, we're fortunate enough to use the floating lines on the flats. Um, and, um, it's always funny cause I always like to get in contact with some of the guides before going these trips and asking like, what are things that, you know, aren't on the list? What are things that we should be bringing? Do you guys need anything? And, and so on and so forth. And one of the guides was like, yeah, like bring some 80 pound. Cause if the, if the gits are being tricky, like it's good to have 80 pound. I don't think we use anything less than 130 pounds the entire time. And it was like, what's his best case scenario. I'd say,
[01:40:11:23 - 01:40:15:23]
kind of got a little bit there, but rod, rod, what? Yeah. Rod
[01:40:15:23 - 01:40:23:08]
Yeah. Rod wise, I'd say I used a nine and 11 weight probably the most. Um, I was using Thomas and
[01:40:23:08 - 01:40:24:22]
and,
[01:40:24:22 - 01:40:27:05]
I
[01:40:27:05 - 01:40:27:04]
[01:40:27:04 - 01:40:30:11]
[01:40:30:11 - 01:40:31:00]
[01:40:31:00 - 01:40:35:09]
over the coal heads, but for the most part, I'd say I was using an 11,
[01:40:35:09 - 01:40:37:15]
and then Shelton reels and,
[01:40:37:15 - 01:40:44:06]
had a mix of, you know, scientific angler, um, lines, whether it was clear tip for permit,
[01:40:44:06 - 01:40:45:12]
or a
[01:40:45:12 - 01:40:46:09]
with the GT Titan,
[01:40:46:09 - 01:41:32:20]
um, smooth and it's incredible. I mean, it's got a 65 pound core and there's a lot of great GT lines out there, but I got to witness, um, you know, I hooked a fish and heard the guide and my friend jump up and I was like, shit, something's wrong. And then I felt the knot go through my hand and then I watched the knots go through several of the guides and then stop, went to try to pop the first three rod, rod pieces off and within a split second, you know, four guides blew up the 65 pound, the cord is exploded. Sound like a gunshot going off. Um, and it won't mean it was a split second. I was just like, wow, the sheer power of that fish. So you, you, you, you, you exploded the line. Yeah. Exploded. You break the clock.
[01:41:35:03 - 01:42:17:00]
I laugh because you know, it is like that, you know, it's, it's a hot situation to be in because you tell the guys to take two or three spare lines, put them in their backpack, if they're going to be walking away from the boat and if they don't lose those lines, well then you look like an idiot. So it's, it's a hot, it's a hot position to be in. But it is the bottom line is that if you don't have the stuff and you lose it, well then you're going to be more upset. You know, it's about, you know, you've got to take, you've got to do that. You've got to, you've got to overcompensate for, for inveg, eventualities, because I've been in that situation many times before where I haven't had enough fly lines and I've had sort of five or six fly lines in my backpack.
[01:42:18:01 - 01:43:00:07]
And, and I'm saying, and my guests don't have any cause they didn't listen. They didn't bring any fly lines, spare fly lines. So it's a bit of pull. Yeah. That's kind of what happened. I mean, some of the guys bought spare floating lines. Some of them bought even, you know, several sinking lines or intermediates and everything just to have with them. And some guys were like, I'm just going to buy a floating line and play it by year. And I think there were, luckily you guys have some backstock there. So I think there were a couple of lines purchased from the, the shop at Cosmo. But it's a hard one. I mean, cause after that happened, the guide was like, Tim was like, Hey, do you have an extra line? I was like, I do, but look at the guides. Like, I don't think it matters. Cause the guides on the rod were just gone.
[01:43:01:08 - 01:44:06:07]
No, we're barely anyone. I mean, it all depends, you know, it doesn't matter what, what fly line you choose. I mean, obviously the, it needs to be a fly line, which is strong. It needs to be a fly line that doesn't have any texture on it. It was obviously, you know, when you hook a GT and you got text to the fly line and it's running through your fingers, it's like sandpaper. It's going to make, make a nice little train line there. But the most important thing is that your outfit, you know, is to test it. You know, try it. You know, Murphy's law, you're going to arrive on destination. The GT action is going to start immediately and you're going to be not in the game. So it's quite important that whatever, whatever you have, you know, it's a good idea to bite, bite from, from your destination where you at, make sure you got the right stuff, follow the, the, the person that is behind the counter is intuition and experience at these destinations, get that stuff, rig it on your rods and actually make a cost or two with it, because it's a different experience picking up a 12 weight that's got a top and flower on the end, you know, 50 pound fluorocarbon to picking up a 11 or 12 weight rod that's got a 130 pounds straight mono and
[01:44:06:07 - 01:44:17:00]
as long as a coke bottle, you know, so it is, it is a learning curve. And the more you can arrive with the right kit and, and, and in, in
[01:44:17:00 - 01:45:02:11]
makes sense, will, will benefit you in a big way. But, you know, also the most important thing about kit is, is, is, is, is, is a safety thing, not only from a, from a, a, a, a safety RER, you know, swimming or whatever it is, not that it's about making sure that you're going to make the whole week, you know, if you rock up with the wrong pair of boots, you don't have gravel guards and you don't have inners and you don't have a waterproof backpack and you don't have the right hour, it's going to be a terrible week. You know, you're not going to enjoy it at all. Then you, although your first day you're going to get a rub on your foot and it's going to get infected and then you're not going to fish for three days. Now, so it's important to listen to the guys when they, when they say, they say you need to take something. So rather, rather me, I'd rather jump on the bandwagon and buy more than less.
[01:45:03:12 - 01:46:08:21]
Yeah. And, and, and I think the overall, I mean, there's a great points and I think the overall is, is right. Would you rather, would you rather have great, you know, great fishing and not the right ship or have, you know, be prepared for if it, if you do have great fishing and, and I guess the overall point of that is like, it is, it's another big investment and it's another big, it's not just a, you know, show up with the plastic on the wrapper of the rod, right? I mean, this is all stuff. If you're going to fly halfway, you know, for us, if we're going to fly halfway around the world, you know, put, put some time in ahead of time and you know, put some time in ahead of time and, and get ready. And, and I think that's a, that's a good intro. I've never gotten the story from you. You know, about Shelton, but obviously, you know, I mean, I talk about it. I'd say, I mean, Colin or I or others in the shop talk about it, you know, pretty, pretty awesome, right? Like, well, where are you going? All right. Well, if you're going, if you're going to the Seychelles, if you're going to go
[01:46:10:01 - 01:46:27:05]
a lot of time in the water, you know, a seal drag. And I have, I have questions about that, but, you know, obviously maybe just give us a brief rundown on how Shelton started. Cause we both fished him and we sell a lot of them. We're, we're big proponents and yeah.
[01:46:28:18 - 01:46:41:01]
Yeah. I mean, so Shelton is obviously a brand which I love. And I've been involved with it for, from the beginning. And the reason why I love it so much is because of its simplicity.
[01:46:42:04 - 01:46:58:16]
It's, it's not a, it's not a real, which, you know, it's not a fancy real in that way, but it's a real, which you can, you can pretty much fix under any circumstances, you know, or get into a working order, you know, even if you fall on it, you know, kind of thing.
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You know, when you're traveling these two far away places,
[01:47:02:15 - 01:47:47:02]
don't want to arrive there and have an issue with your real. So there's a lot of things that can happen with reels. You know, all different, I'm not going to mention any brands, but I mean, various different reels, you arrive on location and they just ceased. I don't know whether it's a situation of with a seal drag where you fly in a plane and it's not correctly pressurized in the cabin. You know, when you have a Coke bottle or a water bottle and it sucked in by the time you get there, what's blown up, like a pack of chips blow up inside the plane. Now when those kinds of things happen within a seal drag, I believe it, it has the ability to move things. So, so, you know, those kind of things can happen. You never know. But, but whether that happens or not, you know, if there's an issue with a closed drag or seal drag, you have no ability to fix it.
[01:47:47:02 - 01:47:52:17]
unless that drill has the, you know, it's a seal drag and you have the ability to open up and figure it out. So,
[01:47:52:17 - 01:48:00:20]
Schultens has their faults, you know, because it's an open drag, you can get water all the way through the reel. So, you know, obviously, you know, that, you know, the back of a spool,
[01:48:00:20 - 01:48:36:05]
when it's with water on and there's a cool drag on top of it, it's not the smoothest thing, but the drag will still work, but it's not comfortable. But you know, it's as simple as taking a coin or taking a, uh, anything that's flat surface and doing the back, the back end, opening up, take the spool out, take the, the, the drag plate or don't actually have to take the drag plate. Just rub a piece of your, your shirt on it or take a piece of toilet paper. Just try it off and pull it all back together and you're ready to fish. So that's the beauty of them is the simplicity. Um, the frames are strong, they don't flex. You can apply massive amounts of, of drag,
[01:48:36:05 - 01:48:37:09]
smooth drag.
[01:48:37:09 - 01:48:50:12]
and all you have to do is, is at the end of the day, if you strum with it, you put it under water, you have to open it up and you have to strip the reel, open up and get all the salt water out and dry it out and put it back together. It'll work. So, um, that that's the beauty of, of, of Schulten.
[01:48:50:12 - 01:49:04:10]
know, we, we, I'm involved from the design aspect of the reels. We've been on the road of looking at, at doing different kinds of reels. I mean, what is arrived at the point that started us was to have a simple reel, which will last,
[01:49:04:10 - 01:49:17:06]
you know, forever. And basically, you know, you can, you can shop our components when, and at will is when you need them without having a massive, um, um, parts manual of how do you understand how to do it? So,
[01:49:17:06 - 01:49:21:01]
we believe that the right reels for when you exploring and fishing is these past places,
[01:49:21:01 - 01:49:24:21]
uh, that's, that's why we use them funny enough. And Alphonse Island,
[01:49:24:21 - 01:49:42:07]
the, the lone reels or some of the lone reels or my original reels from, from about 30 years ago, and they're still going. Um, those, those reels are out in the water every single day for eight months of the year, and they've been going for almost, almost, uh, you know, 20 to 30 years. So,
[01:49:42:07 - 01:50:33:12]
you have to, you change your components, you know, obviously drag plates and cork and so forth, but they really are, uh, it's a reel and a brand of reel that that's, that's, that's durable and, uh, you could take it and put it through spaces as long as you, you understand that the, the, the, um, the, the aspect of, you know, you've just got to take care of it afterwards. That's all. Yeah. Just a little care after, but that's, you know, that's kind of how we've always, I'd say that's why Mike and I use them. That's why we, we sell a lot of them. It's like, Hey, like there's not many parts on this thing that can break. And the ones that maybe will break. That's very easy to replace. Just swap them out. You know, like Mike was just showing you, it's easy to have the spare cork disc or whatever it may be. Uh, very easy to manage. You just have to remember to clean it after a trip. That's it. I was just, uh, I was just with some of your buddies, our buddies in Mexico.
[01:50:34:17 - 01:51:10:00]
Keith and literally John and Clark and Carlton and, and, uh, that quite, that exact question came up. Was like, well, and I remember, I remember talking to you and you were like, the only thing you need is something dry, um, you know, to fix it really, you know, or, and that's exactly what he was explaining. He was like, it's slipping. And I was like, yeah, because there's a bead of water between the spool and the cork plate. So you just need to dry off the spool. It was, and he's like, really? I'm like, yeah, try it. It'll cause it happened to me.
[01:51:10:00 - 01:51:14:23]
and I don't know, it was, it was funny. Cause I remember talking to you about that and you were like, yeah, just dry it off.
[01:51:16:17 - 01:51:29:11]
Simple. I mean, I try not to put them under water, but you know, you inevitably end up putting them under water. The last thing about it is not an end of the day, you already end of the world. All you gotta do is open it up and wrap it on your shirt and put it back together and you sorted, you know?
[01:51:30:14 - 01:52:12:17]
Yeah. And it's, I do, I don't mind throwing them in the water. It's probably not the best. And, but I mean, I think to, to the point of it's not, I do take care of them. Right. So, I mean, maybe sometimes I let them sit too long before I get to it, but, um, there is a little bit of maintenance, you know? I mean, I think one of the things that we, we've found out with any cork drag is at altitude, you know, I mean, it's going to soak it up quicker. Um, you know, the cork. And so you, we probably need double the amount of lube that, um, you would at sea level, but it's, uh, probably have a humidor in the shop for them. What's that? Probably have a humidor in the shop for them with the cigars and a couple of shilden corks.
[01:52:14:04 - 01:52:25:21]
Yeah. There you go. Um, well, let's, let's go to, you know, yeah, I mean, we could go on the gear for forever, but Colin, so.
[01:52:27:01 - 01:52:56:02]
You know, you guys, you, you stopped at Alphonse and then you went to, uh, you landed in a stove. We actually, yeah, we actually did a pit stop at Farkour. Um, cause I mean, there's a lot of stuff going on in the world, uh, when we were on our way over there. And so one of the guys missed his flight. Um, so it was cool to step off, um, and just, you know, walk around for a bit, but he, uh, yeah, we stopped, we went Alphonse and then Alphonse to Farkour, to a stove and then a stove over.
[01:52:57:06 - 01:52:59:07]
So you got the full tour. Yeah. Full tour.
[01:53:00:16 - 01:53:29:01]
Yeah. Great tour. And how, um, I'm trying to remember how long was your boat ride? I think you told me. I think it was an hour and a half at most. It was pretty quick. Um, and Keith, it can kick up. Is that why like sometimes, you know, say up to like three or four hours from. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we had following seas. So on the way back to pretty windy, pretty wavy, but still I think it was two hours, maybe.
[01:53:30:05 - 01:55:27:20]
Yeah. So it can kick up, you know, so it can kick up pretty quickly because of the currency. So what we do during the background is we have a, we have a smaller plane, which is based in, in, in my head. And if, if the conditions get by any means dangerous or extremely uncomfortable, what we do is we fly a second plate. So we fly the small plane ahead and it'll go all the way to a stove and it'll wait there. And then it'll start shuttling people between a stove and cosmolita. Cause we have a small runway there, a very short runway. Um, and then we'll fly the big plane in and, uh, and then put everybody on the big plane. And it flies everyone back in the small plane then comes back a little bit later. So we, we, we have got that sorted from a safety aspect. Also, obviously, you know, uh, you're in the tropics, cyclonic where, where that can happen. Um, and if it does happen, what, you know, it, it, it generally passes through very quickly. So it can be a couple of days, but the fishing's really, really good. Uh, after the, after the cypher. So, um, generally we'll, we'll, we'll let the guests stay as long as they want at cosmo. And then just before, you know, the weather gets too bad, we'll fly the little plane in and we'll collect them all, take them to Alphonse, uh, keep them on Alphonse for a couple of days. And when the cyclone passes over, we'll fly them all back in and they can continue their, their week. So the beauty, the beauty of our businesses is that we have got scale. Now we've got the ability to take care of people in a different way. We have, we have a lot of infrastructure to fall back on. We have a lot of, a lot of staff, a lot of accommodation and, you know, we're able to take care of people that have traveled a long way. Um, you know, people that, uh, you know, obviously it's not easy to get to, you know, so when they're in their rything, they need to know that their money's well spent and that we're going to take care of them. So we have that ability. We do have that. I mean, it was an impressive setup. Uh, you know, the eco camp on Cosmo, I mean, the tents really cool. Um, and then obviously that, you know, the shipping container rooms were great. The AC was awesome. Um, I was, I was shocked that there was flushing toilets on Cosmo.
[01:55:30:11 - 01:55:32:01]
But, and then, I mean, the whole staff,
[01:55:32:01 - 01:55:56:19]
the history of Cosmo Leto, you know, 19th century, right. Tobacco,
[01:55:56:19 - 01:56:07:00]
Copra, which Copra is the dried meat. Coconut. Yeah. So it, it was primarily, um, they used utilize it for,
[01:56:07:00 - 01:56:08:02]
mangrove wood.
[01:56:08:02 - 01:56:15:06]
and then, uh, so mangrove wood, um, obviously at, at, at Menai, there's a, there's a, there's a big mangrove area.
[01:56:15:06 - 01:56:19:16]
they would use for, for, for the bark, for dying. Um, they would, they would do turtles.
[01:56:19:16 - 01:56:28:03]
obviously a massive turtle area. They would do dried fish. They would do, uh, uh, conch shell.
[01:56:28:03 - 01:56:52:08]
and they would do Copra, but not so much Copra on, on, on Cosmo. It doesn't have, doesn't have many, uh, a coconut split. It is, it's basically a, a, a through fee, um, for, for, for, for seafarers. And they would, they would get fresh water and they would get, you know, um, you know, different things to eat and so forth, but also at one stage, it was, it was the, the center of,
[01:56:52:08 - 01:56:55:19]
harvesting turtles for the, uh, turtle soup,
[01:56:55:19 - 01:57:09:12]
trade at one stage. So, you know, go back 50 years, 60 years, 70 years, it wasn't in a healthy, healthy position and it was commercially fished hand line from, from coast to the shore,
[01:57:09:12 - 01:57:18:04]
um, not a turtles. Now it was birds, birds eggs. They used to crop the eggs. Uh, it wasn't take all the sweet, sweet eggs. So a hell of a lot of commercial stuff happened there.
[01:57:18:04 - 01:57:20:06]
until it no longer became,
[01:57:20:06 - 01:57:32:19]
commercially viable and the islands were left to their own and they kind of rejuvenated. You know, and, uh, when we first went there in 2005, you know, it was exactly that it was a rejuvenated at all.
[01:57:32:19 - 01:58:03:21]
Cosmo, we, after like kind of your setup, a few of us went out and just be like, let's go walk and just went out for a wait. And we went out on the sand spit just right from the camp there. And on our way back, um, I saw this shark coming towards us and I was like, ah, it's just a nurse shark.
[01:58:04:21 - 01:58:14:11]
Kept walking. Um, and then he was about a rod length away and he turned sideways and just stripes down the side. It was pretty good one too. Like maybe 10 plus feet. And I was like, Oh shit. There he is.
[01:58:15:13 - 01:58:24:18]
That's a tide was coming in quick too. So I was like, I gotta get out of here. Well, if you, if you're going to get eaten, you're not going to see him. So don't worry about that.
[01:58:26:04 - 01:58:31:00]
You're just going to feel the butt. So yeah, it's a bit of a place. The last thing about it is that all those shocks,
[01:58:31:00 - 01:58:34:12]
you know, they've, they've got enough food, so they don't bother us. Yeah.
[01:58:35:15 - 01:59:11:21]
Yeah. And I think, I think I don't know where I read this or heard it, but at some point I heard you say Keith, like, cause, cause the point there is right. What you all have done there doesn't, it's as if it was 70 years ago. I mean, at least, at least to me walking on there and maybe to you call it. I mean, it's, I mean, the, right. The main lodge is a tent. It's a, it's, so it's just, it's very cool. And I, and I don't know where I heard or read this, but you referenced kind of the, you know, you already said it, right? You guys put that up in 21 days.
[01:59:11:21 - 01:59:19:18]
and it is, it has a feeling of an, of an eco camp that was, you know, as it always was,
[01:59:19:18 - 01:59:57:23]
but do you attribute that to kind of the African edge, so to speak? I mean, I'm always preaching how easy, you know, we have it because I feel like I have been fortunate enough to travel and experience other cultures and then come back here. And a lot of times I feel like we've, you know, Collins probably heard me say it way too often, like we've got it pretty damn good. But is that, I mean, do you, do you attribute it to that? I mean, being able to pull that off. Well, I mean, there's a lot of South Africans that are bumping around now in the flapsing, uh, fraternity, you know, really, really good ones. And, uh, I think it, I think it stems from,
[01:59:57:23 - 02:00:11:20]
you know, the adventure side of things in Africa, you know, we've had to deal with big animals, uh, for most of our lives and we've been out in the wilderness and we've seen these most incredible places that we've, we've, we've, we've cut our teeth at operating in the most difficult places in Africa
[02:00:11:20 - 02:00:24:18]
to operate. So for us, it's, it's, you know, taking on a challenge like Cosmetis is, you know, it wasn't too much of a challenge which concerned us. You know, we knew that if you, uh, if you did your planning correctly and if you had, you know,
[02:00:24:18 - 02:00:31:15]
a backup plan for a backup plan, you'll be, you'll be fine. So, so, um, you know, our partners in it was RDC.
[02:00:31:15 - 02:00:39:19]
I had the CEO of RDC, Geddy Savvy with me and we had, we had a team of, of, uh, my 12, 12 of my guys and 20 of his guys.
[02:00:39:19 - 02:00:58:15]
and we, we slept in tents on the floor and we, we went about digging holes and we, we built the camp, you know, 21 days, the beauty of the camp is that they, if you, if you can, if you can build a camp so quickly, you can, you can break it down as, as quickly. So we can break that camp down. So there's almost nothing left. Um, the only, the only things which will remain will be the old,
[02:00:58:15 - 02:01:01:06]
foundations for the buildings that were from the past.
[02:01:01:06 - 02:01:07:08]
and there's, there's one building, which is a psycho-proof building, which we built, um, obviously with,
[02:01:07:08 - 02:01:33:14]
climate change and the changes in, in, in, in weather systems, we, we, we went, we couldn't really look back at the history anymore and say, well, you know, there hasn't been a devastating, uh, um, cyclone and cosmeto, uh, because we're not sure what the future is going to be. So we built a, a cyclone shelter. So should we be caught with our pants down in the sense we've, we've got a room to go to, and then we, we, we obviously put in the short runway. It is a, it is mostly gross, but it has got a one section of, of, of concrete.
[02:01:33:14 - 02:01:45:17]
but other than that, we can take it all away. It would be as if, as if no one's been there before, you know, and, and the concrete, uh, runway is not a mess of a stab. It can be easy, easily broken and so can the building. So we could return it back to,
[02:01:45:17 - 02:02:12:03]
uh, completely to the wild within, uh, call it in a couple of months easily. Uh, and everything can be taken away. So it is, uh, is remarkable in the sense that it is as, as small as possible to, to still make it feel authentic, you know? Yeah. It, it doesn't. Yeah. Colin, Colin, let's, let's go through some highlights. Cause you got some, you got some, uh, videos of some guys that are just jacked beyond
[02:02:12:03 - 02:02:45:04]
know, we saw there's some big bonefish were caught, right? Walk us through some, some highlights and, uh, yeah. How, how the trip went. Yeah. I would say overall success. I mean, sure. There's always hiccups on trips. Um, but once I'd say once we got there, it was smooth as can be. Or once we even got, you know, to my,
[02:02:45:04 - 02:02:49:17]
but I'd say, um, you know, it kind of seemed like I would say somewhat of an average week.
[02:02:49:17 - 02:02:50:23]
but for us, it was just
[02:02:50:23 - 02:03:01:11]
I definitely saw it. I definitely experienced it as well.
[02:03:01:11 - 02:03:02:10]
but yeah, the,
[02:03:02:10 - 02:03:02:21]
there's
[02:03:02:21 - 02:03:38:18]
which was unfortunate. It didn't even, it just pulled the hook. Didn't even cut the line or anything.
[02:03:38:18 - 02:03:40:17]
we saw some huge doggies,
[02:03:40:17 - 02:03:43:00]
dogfish tuna or dog to tuna.
[02:03:43:00 - 02:03:55:02]
it back into the homes that you get right by the boat and it's just like, just hang on. So you don't lose that fly because you're going to want that thing.
[02:03:55:02 - 02:03:57:07]
one of the more memorable videos in there is when,
[02:03:57:07 - 02:03:59:08]
um, Steve, one of the guys on the trip,
[02:03:59:08 - 02:04:00:06]
hooked a meter Jeep.
[02:04:00:06 - 02:04:01:04]
and,
[02:04:01:04 - 02:04:12:02]
Liam turns the boat on is chasing this thing down. It's it wrapped around a couple of coral heads. He gets it out just on the boat. And then one of them kind of fish goes in between, I think two of the coral heads and
[02:04:12:02 - 02:04:12:07]
drag.
[02:04:13:10 - 02:04:14:04]
He's enough to get back.
[02:04:15:17 - 02:04:20:17]
Is he a drag loser? Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God, oh my God, oh my God. Is the drag loser? Yeah.
[02:04:23:18 - 02:04:25:03]
We're out, we're good, we're good, we're good, we're good.
[02:04:27:02 - 02:04:27:05]
All
[02:04:27:05 - 02:04:29:15]
yeah, um, pretty impressive though.
[02:04:29:15 - 02:04:44:10]
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, impressive enough to, right, to go back. Yeah. We've got, I think we've got cosmolito next year and then Farqua in Providence the year after and, and more, more to come,
[02:04:44:10 - 02:04:52:17]
yeah, it's, it's wildly impressive. One, one question I did have Keith just out of curiosity is, you know, there's always a lot of,
[02:04:52:17 - 02:05:04:07]
talk about how with GTs, how are you, how do you, because that's right. Some people argue it both ways. How do you set your drag before your casting?
[02:05:05:20 - 02:06:35:02]
Yeah. So you don't want to touch you. You want a decent drag, but you don't want to touch. You know, if you have it, if you lock your, if you make it cost and lock your rail up of all, that's going to happen. It's not a niche is just going to explode the line. No, you're not even, you're not going to even have a second of a fight with it. With the GT. So, so it's quite important that you utilize the drag in a way of, of, of. Applying the pressure gradually, you know, so, uh, it's much easier in shadow water to apply the pressure because obviously as you, because of the, the, the, the, the shape of a giant, to, to man his head, his mouth at the bottom. So as you, as you apply the, the, the drag, it pulls his head down. So if you apply drag off, often it'll make a GT go in deep water. It'll tend to go down. Whereas if you, if you, if you apply drag on the flats, he can't go down. So he goes onto the set. So you can, you can, you can, uh, in a sense, you know, uh, I'm flipping. So he first run, he's always going to, he's going to run and see how far you can get away from you, um, you, you gr, gradually click it out and, and, and make it tighter. And then once he turns around and comes back, he'll, he'll often, he'll try and look for some structure. So if he comes back, you know, obviously you got to get locked back as quick as possible, but if you've locked your real down, be ready to loosen it up again. Because if he goes again and you've locked it all the way down to stop him from going somewhere, there's not initially going to break the line. So, so it's back off again. Let him, let him, uh, let him look for the structure, try and stop him from going to go to the structure. Um, and then you should be fine, not to touch the drag again. You can go pretty, pretty tight.
[02:06:35:02 - 02:06:40:02]
I'm, I'm a firm believer in, in, in that, you know, you can fight a GT very hard,
[02:06:40:02 - 02:06:42:22]
if he's going to bite you off, which they've got these, you know, shop,
[02:06:42:22 - 02:06:45:04]
um, can I teach a conical canine teeth?
[02:06:45:04 - 02:06:46:18]
he's going to bite you off right in the beginning.
[02:06:46:18 - 02:07:28:12]
so you, you know, you could pull hard. Uh, it is a tug of war. And the harder you can, you can, the more you can point that right, the harder you can pull him the quicker and easier, a lot easier, the quicker you're going to land him obviously, but also the better chance you have, you have of getting him. No, the guards, obviously they know, they know what they're doing out there. So, you know, don't, don't take what I'm telling you as gospel, because all situations on, you know, if you're in the deep and you know, you've got a big fish and you apply that amount of pressure and he touches any kind of coral it's gone. So quite often the guys will want you to back off the, off the dragon a little bit. You know, let that fish get through the difficult areas. And then as, as you said, you know, like him did,
[02:07:28:12 - 02:07:41:22]
you'll, you'll get back on top of him and you'll, you'll pull. And if he does end up going through some coral, at least you don't have that tension to stamp the line. You know, as long as your fly lines rig correctly, you've got the, you've got the reinforced loops, you've got a really good knots and you got 130 pounds.
[02:07:41:22 - 02:07:51:12]
and you got a good fly line. You should be okay. You should be okay. Yeah. I think in that video, he goes and says, he's like, loose and tight and loose and tight and like, just kind of throw up a whole video over and over again.
[02:07:51:12 - 02:07:53:10]
it depends where the fish is. Yeah.
[02:07:53:10 - 02:07:58:01]
this has been my experience, but it's, you know, the motorcycle gang or the sea,
[02:07:58:01 - 02:08:27:22]
they, they come on the flats. They, they act like they own the place. And so when, when you hook one, you know, it would be like going up to the, the biggest bad-ass guy in a motorcycle gang. And you know, you're going to get in a fight and, and breaking his nose, right? Like, I mean, that that'll stun them. Right. And maybe he'll think differently about fighting you. But do you, do you think that's kind of the same? I mean, I've always thought like, if you can break their spirit. Yeah. There's first run.
[02:08:29:00 - 02:08:31:19]
Yeah. First run. If you, if you can, if you
[02:08:31:19 - 02:08:34:02]
(Drill Whirring)
[02:08:35:12 - 02:08:39:12]
Hey, baby. Oh, dude, I'm putting all the brush back in. There you go, that's good.
[02:08:42:18 - 02:09:21:06]
You know, obviously he's, he's going to give you a lot of trouble close, close to you, but you know, if you, if you stop that momentum in the beginning, you've got, you've got a good chance. Yeah. And the only way you could do that is by, by applying pressure, you conscious lock up, you're going to break him off. You're going to straighten the hook. You're going to do whatever you've got to apply the brakes. It's like sliding down a car. You can't just slam one. You got, you got to ABS brakes. You got to slowly put the pressure on. It's a good way to describe it. I would say, you know, on the topic of GTs, like I think two really interesting things to me was the ability to change color in a split second, like kind of like a light switch turning on or off was pretty incredible.
[02:09:22:08 - 02:10:08:19]
I mean, super cool, especially when it went right when you hook one, you know, maybe he was black and as soon as you hook him, he turned silver. Yeah. Yeah. You might have to explain that a little further because I don't think people are might be listening to me like, what is he talking about? Yeah. That yeah. And Keith, maybe you're the one that answered this. I think it was, it seemed like it was a, it changed based on mood and even environment, you know, whether they were happy or maybe unhappy or spooked or being hooked or being released, it seemed to always kind of flip up a switch, just silver to black. Yeah. Colorless. Yeah. Yeah. They, they, they can, they can change quite easily. They go from, from black to silver, but journey journey, I believe it is the males that are generally black a lot of the time. Whether, when the females generally being a little bit bigger and silver.
[02:10:08:19 - 02:10:41:23]
experienced, it is experienced that I had once before and which, which dials are done is that, um, we were fishing a, a, a, well, eventually had a few times we were fishing a surf break and it was very milky in the water and you couldn't see the females, but you could see the males. They're all sitting there cause they, they thought they were camouflaged. They turned themselves black and the females turned themselves white. And, uh, you know, and then you, you cost it and you, and you immediately see a GT come out and you elite the fly. And within seconds that fish has gone silver. So they've got that ability, you know, it is a moot thing.
[02:10:41:23 - 02:10:52:19]
generally you'll find the, the giant valley when they're on rays, they tend to be darker, but you do see them on, on rays when they're light as well. Um, I don't think it's, it's an exact science,
[02:10:52:19 - 02:11:51:19]
as to what color, what color they, they, they are, but I think it has, uh, you know, has, has a color correlation with what they're doing. You know, if they, if they feel a little more aggressive or they're hunting for a bit of camouflage, you know, um, also when they're spawning, um, when they, when they in that, um, in that spawning sort of, what is it, what do you call it? Um, they show up and they, they, they dating in a sense. Yeah. You'll get, you'll get a male sitting above a female, the male will be black and the female will be silver, uh, in a big show, you know, so they all, they all these kinds of things. I don't think, I don't think I understand it completely. And there'll probably be some scientists that are listening and saying, you know, absolutely, you don't know what you're talking about, but that's what I've seen. Yeah. Yeah. The second one to me was like, there almost seemed to be a pecking order when, when there was like a gang of Jeets coming again or school and, um, and maybe I'm wrong, but like, I feel like with permit, a lot of times if you're casting a school of permits, especially Atlantic's, like the smaller one, a lot of times eats the fly,
[02:11:51:19 - 02:14:11:21]
but I don't know, I could be wrong here, but I felt like a lot of times we saw like a school or like maybe, you know, eight to 10 Jeets coming in and you throw it in there and a lot of times the smaller fish would be kind of toying with it and like, they don't miss. So it's like, it seemed like they were just playing with it and then the big one would come up and eat it most of the time. Um, it's almost like they have put it away and they were like, Nope, this isn't for me. So funny enough, generally it's a good idea to be the second guard to cost. Yeah. Um, but often if you, if you put a flying and there's two or three fish there, the little one is, is a lot faster, the big guy, um, and he'll eat the flop, but, but a good lesson and a reminder for, and you, and when you listen to the guards, you'll, you'll, you'll see it for the smaller fish, you generally fish, uh, strip foster for the bigger fish, you strip slower, much slower. Um, and you strip it all the way to, you know, there's flowers in the rod tip. And, and, you know, over the years, I've had more big fish eat with the leader inside the rod than, than out, where they followed, they followed it all the way to you and at the last minute, they've seen you and they decided to eat the flower and you've hooked them. Obviously as you hook them and you've got all these knots going through our tips, you know, you, you pull the, the, the front of the rod off the section of the rod off and off it goes with the fish and you fight him with just the butt of the reel, but, uh, you know, that's, that's the important thing. Don't, don't ever, ever lift your rod. Uh, you know, when, when a GT is coming at you, you know, try not to, I mean, it's obviously exciting, but keep your rod down because he's going to follow all the way to, you know, sometimes they'll speak a little earlier, but you know, the big guys don't care. You know, they, they, they, they, they're the matriarch. And they, they want to eat close because they want something big. They, they don't want to, they don't want to utilize all the energy chasing small fish around them. They want to make sure that when they're going to use that energy, they're going to catch that fish. They're going to follow it. So yeah, you get, you get those big fish very close to the boat or very close to your, your feet. And yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's incredible. Their eyesight too. Um, I think the group as a whole, I think the only regret was like, and I told everyone going into it. I mean, I had the mindset to have like, just cast it. What's like we're here, like just cast it with everyone in front of you. Like, don't be afraid to mix it up. And, um, I think towards the end, a lot of people were like, I think everyone got a little obsessed over the GTs. I mean, cause it was great action and it's a, you know, it's what we went there for. But at the same
[02:14:11:21 - 02:14:26:18]
a lot of people were like, man, should I spend more time on this triggers or should have done this, should have done this, which was pretty funny. It's like, I think that's important for everyone going there. It's like, keep an open mind and, and don't be afraid to fish at whatever's in front of you. Yeah. I mean, I was just,
[02:14:26:18 - 02:14:30:03]
conversation, uh, in Mexico with,
[02:14:30:03 - 02:14:35:03]
guy that I was in Cosmo Lido with really good friend of JT's,
[02:14:35:03 - 02:15:26:05]
uh, and fishes with JT as well. And they went off and dredge. And I told you about that call. I mean, they, I mean, he, he still says it's the best day of fishing. He's like best session he's ever had. And they lost everything. I mean, they lost a, they lost a reel. They lost, they lost a rod. They broke every rod on the end. Right. I mean, you guys didn't even, didn't even go do it. You said, right. Um, I think, I think one guy went dredging for maybe a morning or an afternoon. I think, I don't think it was super active. Um, maybe I think we did more of the, um, like when it got slow or the tie died and there wasn't much going on, I think we did more of the, the teasing in, um, or blind casting more than the dredging itself, but,
[02:15:26:05 - 02:16:47:01]
still had some good action with that stuff, but yeah, I did not experience the dredging. Um, like you, like you described. I, I didn't either, but this, I mean, he's still talking about it to this day. I mean, I could, I mean, they, they came back with all of their gear obliterated and they were just so happy. It was awesome. But Keith Keith is that, is that one thing I've thought about? Like, if you go do that, cause I mean, that's usually a fallback, but this wasn't, they just wanted to go catch and see what was off the ledge. Right. Like, and, but do you, do you generally need to do that like most fishing when the currents are pushing hard and right. I would imagine. No, no, it can happen anytime. No, you know, generally it sits around weather more than anything else. No, you obviously got brisk wind, you know, you can't, you can't focus on, on, on the spots that while you just sort of, you dragging your fly out. So if you've got nice calm weather and you're able to get that fly down, you've got obviously all the different species we're sharing about. Um, and, and funny enough is, is that the boat access almost like a teaser in a sense where all this commotion around the boat attracts the fish to the boat. So, so the more, more time you spend, you know, if you go there and you drop down two or three times and don't catch anything, the generally that, you know, you know, people think that there's nothing there, but if you spend your time, they generally gets better and better and better.
[02:16:47:01 - 02:16:52:21]
but it's a full back fast. It's not, it's not a, it's not a everyday kind of thing that we have guests that come up and want to do that.
[02:16:52:21 - 02:17:51:04]
but it is, it does get exciting because obviously with all that commotion, the GTs love it as well. So they, they come, they come to the boat as well. So you're catching, catching them as well. But you know, it's a, it's a great, it's a great thing to try, um, on the outside of the lagoon when you're fishing for milkfish, you know, we, we often see a lot of milkfish offshore, you know, feeding on the surface. And if you want to catch a milkfish, we'll generally run the scum lines and look for, look for those guys and, and, and fish for them. But at the same time, in the same area where all these, these big, big creatures are hanging out below, you know, so, uh, it came here, it came here an exciting day. But what we do do is we, we, we pick our tides and we, we act according to our tides, obviously if a guest wants to target a certain kind of species, we'll, we'll, we'll have a full guide getting that species, but if the tides aren't susceptible to it, will the generally then guide them a different way? But, uh, yeah, I mean, you know, there's, there's a, there's a very famous thing, uh, uh, Alphonse called, uh, um, the golden grand stamp,
[02:17:51:04 - 02:17:53:16]
which is five species, uh, in one
[02:17:53:16 - 02:18:02:18]
five species in one day. And, uh, you know,
[02:18:02:18 - 02:18:27:23]
my, my business partner, Murray Collins, uh, you know, we had obviously had too many drinks around the bar and he, he thought it'd be a wonderful idea to offer a free trip for, uh, um, for someone that goes out and catches a golden grand stamp. Well, of course, two days later, we had someone who went out and caught a golden grand stamp. So we had to deliver on this, on this, uh, uh, free trip. The problem with the story is that it ended up in the magazines. So golden grand stamp was caught. And if you catch a golden grand stamp, you get a free trip. Oh man.
[02:18:29:08 - 02:18:52:14]
So obviously, it took a few years to break that cycle because we had this golden grand stamps being caught and these guys go, yeah, I got a free trip. And we go, Oh, no, we need to get it. He has the article. He has the article. So I just want to put it out there guys. When you catch a golden grand stamp in the Seychelles, there's no free trip. Well, you got to get a shot now. Right.
[02:18:53:16 - 02:18:58:10]
You get a shot for anything on any of our destinations. We, we, we encourage it.
[02:18:59:14 - 02:19:27:14]
Oh, that's awesome. Well, uh, yeah, I can, uh, actually no, I did just look at my notes. I had one, one more question before we, we let you go. Cause you referenced it and I have experienced it. You know, Pua is one of the most interesting fisheries I think I've ever been to. And obviously it's for not for everyone. Right. I mean, it's, it's a permit kind of junky spot.
[02:19:27:14 - 02:20:59:16]
I've seen that when you were, you're referencing, you know, you had 600 shots and you don't, you know, and I've gone down the rabbit hole of trying to tie brittle stars or fish and urchin or like, why do you, why do you think that those fish, what do you think they're doing when they, they're are tailing, right? They're eating something. Um, and they want nothing to do with what you've got. What do you, I mean, is it, so there's obviously a little tech tech shell, which is a small, what's said care. And they eat them. They love eating them. So, I mean, it's not easy, not easy sort of replicating a clam shelf, but they eat those things. They eat, they eat kind of crustacean. You know, um, I just, I, if I knew, you know, I would have caught as many pervert as you've caught, you know, so, uh, I just don't know, you know, and, uh, you know, when you have 600 shots, you would think that, you know, by then you would have gone to 600 flies. You would have probably figured it out, but you know, that's the great thing about it is that, you know, you turn up to a place like probably, you know, no one's going to be like, I mean, you can rock up there and you can have the perfect tarts and it's just, they're there, but they, it's slow. Or you can, you can rock up and you got the springy tarts, they don't throw tarts and they, they all over the place and you catch them and they're eating. So I think that's the, that's the amazing thing about being a Pacific permit and, and, and the, the, the Amarantes chain.
[02:20:59:16 - 02:24:20:20]
you know, the only thing you can do is you can be dialed in, you know, you can, you can have your, you can have your ability, you know, put the fly in the right place, you can make that fish see the fly, you can, you can, you can tweak the fly in the right, right way, but it's up to them to decide whether they want to not, you know, you can't, unless you, unless you're good enough to cross it into their mouth, which I'm not, uh, you know, it's just that, uh, it's just that situation, which is amazing. Um, and you know, saying that, do you think, I mean, this is, this is, might be me going way too, too out there, but do you, do you think there's any merit to when those fish get in that pattern that they could be eating something, you know, like a drug? I mean, I often described it like they're stoned because it's not like, you know, a permit that's tailing sees you blows up and gets out of there. It's almost like, you know, they'll stay there 60, 70 feet away from you. They're tailing slowly. It's like someone just smoked a huge joint and is just like, Hey, yeah, it's cool, whatever I mean, I mean, is there anything, any merit that they could be eating something that changes their, in your theory, obviously not, we're not. I think, I think a lot of the time they eat their tech tech shell. So they focus on a particular kind of kind of food and they're so, so zoning on that and looking for that specific thing that they don't, they don't see everything else around them. Yeah. Just hyper focus. I just, the hyper focus. I mean, I mean, I was, as you say, I mean, I've seen the fish stuff. I've made a hundred costs that, and then, you know, they haven't responded. I've seen fish that I've made 50 cost you and on the 55th first cost they've eaten the fly. So, and I haven't, I've, you know, I've been through a string of flies and I've ended up in the first file that I cost of the fish and he's eaten it. So, I mean, it's, it's, it's just that, that, you know, as you know, it's just that, that, that, that, that portion of. In the balance to figure it out, which is so exciting. Yeah, exactly. And I don't, I hope we never do, but I love, I love the theories, right? And I mean, the funniest thing is probably one of my best permit moments ever happened on Pwath and it didn't result in catching a fish, but there was a, you know, there was a permit that was tailing, you know, facing out and it kept fading towards me. And I was backing up and I was like, if I back up again, I'm going to crunch coral. And this thing is going to be out of here. And it started fading towards me. And I was like, he's not eating what I have and I can't, so I got in the water, you know, like, like a swamp, you know, just, just my eyes up. And the, the fish got so close tailing that it splashed my glasses. Wow. No way. And that's, and that was, you know. But, but that's when I was like, this thing wants nothing to do with what I've got. And it's focusing, I don't know. I love, I love thinking about it. Cause it's, it's wild shit. The amazing thing about permit fishing is that you can get very good at it. So that, that things are things are, things are weighted in your favor versus weight in their favor. So I think that's the thing that drives me about fishing. If you ask me now, and you know, where would you like to go and what would you like to fish for? I definitely want to go fish for permit.
[02:24:20:20 - 02:24:44:07]
And why is it? Because it's the one, the one side of flight fishing or one species of fish in the Seychelles that you, you can't a hundred percent dial it in, but you can, you can refine your ability so that things are on your side versus on, on the fisher's side. And I'm fishing pattens now that I never thought I'd fish for a permit. I mean, I'm fishing, I'm catching most of my in the Pacific permit on a snake skin, I'll flex so with orange legs.
[02:24:45:16 - 02:24:54:23]
And, uh, there was a, there was a, there was a flower we, we created for trigger fish, I did. There's a lot of listeners that are just writing that down.
[02:24:56:03 - 02:24:56:08]
And
[02:24:56:08 - 02:26:04:22]
funny enough, I wasn't, I wasn't the guy that, that caught the first permit on it, you know, on the, the snakes came with the orange leg. I actually did the color combination for trigger fish because everyone is catching triggers with the orange crab, but it wasn't working as well as, you know, um, um, sorry, the orange crab, but the, the snakes, the crab was also working well. So I thought, listen, why don't we put some origin in the snakeskin and see if this, if it works well. I mean, when we started fishing that flower for triggers, it was, was wild. I mean, every fish you cost that would have a go at it. Um, and then, uh, one of our guards actually said to me, listen, you won't believe it, but we use this, this, this, uh, the flower on the day off at Alphonse and threw it at a permanent and he ate it immediately. And I happened to be on a trip where I was fishing. So, uh, the box got it out. And you know, nice thing about it is when you, when you cost your snakeskin, uh, afflicts with the orange leg, you know, they see it. So they can make it a season where they want to eat it or not. And if they don't want it, they don't want it. We, uh, on the last day, they don't stop, they don't stop at the, at the surf line, they stopped at the drop off, you know? Yeah.
[02:26:06:17 - 02:26:08:13]
We actually threw a floating crab for a bit.
[02:26:08:13 - 02:26:24:07]
we had caught a bunch of bonefish on the last morning and my boat partner and I, and, uh, we were like, let's put a floating crab on and just like, cause we were looking for a permit and we're just, let's just see what happens. And, um, as we didn't end up getting to put it in front of a permit, unfortunately, but we did put it in front of a bunch of bonefish
[02:26:24:07 - 02:26:40:18]
they were actually really interested by it. They would just come up though, but then they would like almost eat it and then just spook, but they kept coming right to it. Um, it was really interesting. How deep was the water? Shallow. Maybe three feet max. It was like a lot of it was two to three, maybe a little less.
[02:26:40:18 - 02:26:47:15]
Well, I mean, the beautiful thing about the Seychelles when there's so many fish, your learning curve reduces significantly.
[02:26:47:15 - 02:26:55:12]
but also, you know, it's, it's never, it's never done always done. So for instance, like three years ago, the boys figured out how to catch,
[02:26:55:12 - 02:27:20:15]
batfish where they designed a blue bottle flower. Yeah. There's red blue, but no one had a blue bottle. So they take that they find foam or slops, which have washed up in the store, the kind of piece of foam. They put a trailing tentacle off it. And that's what they fish for these, uh, these, these batfish. And if you ever got a batfish, I mean, I think fights like hell. I mean, it's for such a big profile. It just goes sideways and the body.
[02:27:21:16 - 02:27:54:21]
Crazy. Yeah. I mean, you see him trying to eat that little, that, that, that people on the fly it's, it's wild. It's a, it's amazing. It's an amazing experience. Yeah. We had someone, uh, just throwing some sandwich off when we were on one of your boats and the batfish came in and then someone's like, holy shit, tie something up and, you know, they started grabbing, grabbing foam out of the seat cushion. And then the captain was like, what the fuck are you doing? Like you can't, it was great.
[02:27:54:21 - 02:28:09:18]
well, listen, like, like I said, before we started, we, we could do this for hours and, uh, I don't want to take up too much of your time. We'll, we'll definitely be doing it again. And, uh, yeah, I really appreciate both of you guys jumping on and, uh, truly was a pleasure and
[02:28:09:18 - 02:28:13:15]
thank you very much. And thank you. You know, we, we, we didn't get there, but,
[02:28:13:15 - 02:28:36:14]
we will next time, but most, most, more importantly, thanks for the, the conservation work out there. Right. Like that's at the end of the day, that's, that's everything. I mean, you guys are working hard to, to conserve, you know, your, your operations and, and make it around so that, uh, so, you know, someday our kids can hopefully experience them and all the studies and,
[02:28:36:14 - 02:29:34:21]
yeah. And the money going towards it, it's, uh, it's really important. And thanks for that. Yeah. Thank you. I mean, yeah, it's, uh, it's, uh, it's, uh, it's, uh, it's a cliche where we always say thank you to everybody for coming out and protecting these places. But it really is, it really is something that people are doing by coming out and visiting us and, and, and putting their feet in, in Seychelles water, that they're protecting the Seychelles and, uh, you know, it's, it's, we can prove it. We can show you, you can show you the data. We can show you what's happened. You know, we can show you the improvements that have happened, but it's also a unique story in the sense that it's, um, it's the marine activities, the flower fishing, um, that's protecting not only the marine ecosystem, but also the terrestrial ecosystem. So protect the birds, the tortoise and the turtles, you know, everything, everything above, above water as well as below water. So that, you know, um, you know, for many generations, it's, it'll be there, you know, forever, hopefully. Uh, but you know, thanks to you guys, you know, for your support.
[02:29:34:21 - 02:30:13:08]
I promise you keep sending, sending guys away or ladies away or couples away or families away. We'll take good care of them and we'll make sure that they, they, they see some fish, but as you say, it's up to them to, uh, to make it happen. We can only, we can only shy them to fish. Yeah. Now provide opportunity. That's about, uh, that's about it. Well, well, thanks again. And, uh, appreciate, appreciate the time gentlemen. And, uh, we'll, we'll talk soon for sure. We'll see you in September. Thanks. Right. Yeah. Looking forward. Oh yeah. You're coming back out. Yeah. I'm coming back out. Hell yeah. I haven't, I haven't caught enough cuts right yet. Yeah.
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Awesome.
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(Music)
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(Applause)
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