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Welcome to I’m Not Even Supposed to Be Here Today, a conversational, culture-savvy podcast for folks trying to make sense of a world that has gone sideways. We’re here to unpack the issues that boggle our minds, all rooted in a little history, a little culture, a little humor, a little group therapy, and a little humility.
Ep3 BeHerePod
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[00:00:00]
Chris: Hello. Welcome everybody to ~episode three, three. It's ~episode three of, I'm Not Even Supposed to Be here today, a conversational cultural savvy podcast for folks trying to make sense of a world that has gone sideways. We're here to unpack the issues that bogle our minds, all rooted in a little history, a little culture, a little humor, a little group therapy.
And a lot of humility. I am your co-host, Chris Bevelo, owner of Baring 2 87, an organization fighting the Good Fight to make the world a better place for all and the sponsor of this show. And I'm joined as always by my co-host Des, who is a social impact comm strategist by day and who spends her nights remixing history to make sense of the president.
~I don't know why I'm reading the introduction in this weird radio cadence, but des ~
I'm glad you got the memo. I'm wearing brown. ~I actually, what I have on is gold. ~I don't know if you're gold or you're [00:01:00] brown. You look, ~uh, ~I don't, you got a brown hat and a brown shirt.
Des: I was trying to
Chris: We're all brown.
Des: We're all brown here?
Chris: Yeah. We got ~a, we got a, a, ~a little lighter episode topic to get into, but, ~um, des ~it wouldn't be a podcast with you and I if we didn't, ~uh, ~at least every other episode talk about the shit we are watching and there's so much to watch.
Des: Too much in fact.
Chris: Do you even say on TV anymore ~or is it streaming?~
Des: ~Yeah, I mean that's a, no, I don't see on TV anymore 'cause it just, yeah, just what I'm watching. ~What are you watching lately? What are you streaming? ~But because streaming even feels forced, but yeah. What am I watching?~
Chris: I mean, I'm old school, so I'll probably always say tv, but honestly, I don't think I've watched network TV other than like a sporting event. I don't know when. Maybe I watched the Golden Globes last night. ~Was that on? I don't even know. Was that on like peacock? I can't remember where. It was~
Des: That's the only network TV I watch is the award season. That's when I'm jumping in. Except for the Grammys. I've checked out of the music. ~I, I'm old. ~I don't know ~what, ~who these people are, but ~the, the movies, the, ~the Emmys, the Oscars, the Golden Globes. ~That's, ~this is my Super Bowl. This is my playoffs. ~This is my playoffs.~
Chris: Nice. Well, we're gonna get to that, but first we need to talk about the [00:02:00] shows that. ~Um, ~I can't even keep up with all of the shows. ~Uh, ~and now we have upon us, I'm gonna say, I'm gonna give four, four new shows that I'm super excited to watch. I have no idea how I'm gonna get to 'em. The first is Pit, the Pit season two.
If you watch season one.
Des: I did. Yeah. I love the pit ~and, ~and I guess ~in my way ~in my former healthcare marketing, I felt like I needed to watch it to kind of stay up ~to, ~to date. ~Uh, ~but I'm glad I did. It was a really good show.
Chris: Yeah, it's very good. And someday I'll do a, I'll either write something or I'll do a podcast on the influence the pit had on me. 'cause it had a huge influence on my thinking about my former ~industry, uh, ~industry. Speaking of industry, industry season four, which I didn't even know because the end of season three ~Sure.~
Seemed like it was the end of the series, but no one of my favorite shows of all time And a hidden gem. You watch industry.
Des: I do. I randomly discovered it in a hotel room on a [00:03:00] client trip back in, it was like December, 2020 or something, and I was like, oh, this is. Good. This was, it was the first season and then I promptly fell off the face of the earth and didn't watch it ever again. ~Um, but in prep for this upcoming season, I actually spent this past weekend, uh, ~catching up on season two and three and Wow.
Wow. I think I heard someone describe it as basically skins meets succession, and that definitely feels spot on.
Chris: Yeah, it is. ~Uh, ~we watched it from the get go, loved it from the get go. There's so much cultural relevance to it. There's so much business relevance to it. I remember when we were trying to work with Walgreens, and I think it was season two and Walgreens came up and it was all about like telehealth and there was some big venture capitalists.
It was like, oh yeah, Walgreens, like that shitty thing that you see every corner. And I was like, yes, Walgreens, this is your brand. ~It's so, ~it was so dead on. ~Um, okay, so ~how about Night Manager? Did you ever watch Night Manager with, ~uh, ~what's his name? ~How's that?~
Des: ~I never, ~never heard of [00:04:00] him. ~Uh, ~never heard of that show.
Chris: Tom Hiddleston. Is that a person? ~It is,~
Des: That sounds like a person, but that sounds like a action person. And ~I, ~I don't do the action
Chris: no, he's like a Jude Law handsome Englishman guy.
Des: Oh. ~Is he the one that's with Zendaya~
Chris: No, no, no, no. That's Spider-Man. ~Um, ~that's Tom, somebody, Tom Hiddleston was, ~uh, ~Loki in the Avenger series. ~Does that help?~
Des: No
Chris: Anyway, night manager's like a thriller thing. Really good, really good. Season two didn't know it was coming. And then lastly, I'm gonna throw at you, his and hers.
You heard of his and hers? ~Not the, not him and hers. His and hers.~
Des: No. I have not heard of his and hers.
Chris: I had not either. ~Uh, ~it's a new series on Netflix. ~Uh, ~stars, John Barenthal and Tessa Thompson, ~uh, ~is a crime thrower, which I love crime throwers. And apparently this is supposed to be, it's only six episodes, but it's getting some rave reviews online.
~Um, ~that's a short list because the list, I probably have like 15 things on my list. ~Um, there's and there's more coming. So yeah. ~Anything you want to add to that list before we move on? ~I.~
Des: ~I, I'm drawing a blank. ~I've actually been catching up on a lot of the [00:05:00] Apple TV shows. Speaking of tv, ~um, ~we just finished, ~uh, ~shrinking, catching up on that. What's the one with, ~uh, ~old Boy from Mad Men that everyone has been doing the memes around? ~Um, ~him dancing in the club. ~Um,~
Chris: Oh, John Ham,
Des: Yeah.
Chris: your friends and neighbors. ~Love that.~
Des: Love excited for whenever that second season comes out. But yeah, ~I don't know. I've been kind of not watching as much TV lately, but ~I had some downtime, so I caught up on industry and prep. ~So~
Chris: Good,
Des: where I'm at.
Chris: ~good for you. ~And I have to go back and watch Andor because ~we, ~we canceled Disney when they pulled their Kimmel bullshit. And then I'm like, okay, with everything going on right now, I gotta watch Andor again. Have you seen and or
Des: No, you've told me to, but it's that speculative fiction I can't do.
Chris: But it's all about rebellion, Dez, and it's about, ~you know, ~star Wars rebellion, which is like Luke Skywalker and all that, but it's like the real shit and it's, Ooh, is inspiring.
Fires you up.
Des: ~you. ~I hear you, but I'm gonna have to get inspired to actually watch it. I'm sure I'll get it once I actually like watch it, but I'm just [00:06:00] not inspired.
Chris: Okay. ~Uh, ~one plug before we move to our big topic, and that is I have launched the 1985 project, which is an initiative that is all about helping people see and understand and combat propaganda, misinformation, and all the bullshit that's out there. ~Uh, ~it is a take on 1984. Which was the Orwellian Hellscape that we seem to find ourselves in today, unfortunately.
So 1985 is about moving past that, helping people move past that. And so, ~uh, ~there's gonna be a podcast eventually, but right now, ~uh, ~on Substack, we have a newsletter called the 1985 Report, and I encourage people to go. Check it out, subscribe to it. We'll be posting stuff at least a couple times a week, features.
And then we've created this really cool thing, which we'll talk about at a different podcast where we, where we score, score things for their level of propaganda and misinformation and bullshit. So we'll put that in the show notes. But, ~um, ~having a lot of fun doing that, even [00:07:00] though the topics aren't necessarily fun, they're actually scary and, and, ~um, ~infuriating, ~but.~
~Let's, let's, let's, let's shine some sun on this nonsense. ~Let's add, 'cause there's plenty of people shining sun on nonsense. ~I want to add, I wanna open a window des~
Des: What some Aaron.
Chris: the sun pour in on the bullshit we're exposed to every day. All right with that, so if you're new to the show. We're not even supposed to be here today as a takeoff of clerks.
And the idea that, oh my gosh, ~we gotta, ~I can't believe we gotta roll outta bed and talk about this. ~Um, ~and so today's topic is a little lighter, but I think we might veer into the deep end.
Des: Oh yeah.
Chris: We will. ~Uh, and so you, you already, what's that~
Des: It's my favorite topic. ~We're diving~
Chris: award season? It is a awards season. It is, and we, it was so funny because we planned this episode to record today, ~Monday, uh, what is it?~
Monday, January 12th. Neither of us realized that the Golden Globes were last night, ~uh, ~which is perfect actually because it plays right into this topic. ~Uh, ~so we already went through the movies or the TV shows that we, you and I are kind of like hip on right now. ~Uh, ~movies, [00:08:00] the big ones, ~uh, ~one battle after another.
Have you seen that?
Des: I did. Yeah, ~I, ~I saw a lot. I saw one bed after another. Sinners weapons, no other choice. The secret agent. ~Um, ~I will say though, my favorites for some of those sleeper hits, which was like, sorry, baby, which Julia Roberts shouted out and then Ope.
Chris: Hmm.
Des: Yeah, ~I've, ~I've seen all the things and I think I tried to get you to watch some of the stuff that I watched, but I'm glad to see you at least saw one battle after another.
Chris: Well, yes and sinners. I will talk about both of those movies in depth here. ~Uh, ~'cause they're kind of the focus of the show. I have not seen Begonia. ~Um, ~so I'm interested in that.
Anyway, um, as you can tell. Wart season always brings controversy, and I was thinking about this and it just reminds me of the college football playoffs,
back in the day forever, the top two teams would be chosen to play in the national championship. And it was full of controversy, you know, because there was always somebody who was like, ah, we should be in that, we should be in that. And so then they [00:09:00] made, all right, we're gonna have playoffs and we're gonna four teams.
And then sure enough, like Team five is like, whoa, we should be in the playoffs. So now there's 12. And this year is like Vanderbilt. Why aren't we in the playoffs in, ~uh, ~who else? Texas. Why aren't we in the playoffs? So it, it doesn't matter how many teams they let in to the playoffs, there's always gonna be controversy.
And I think it doesn't matter who gets nominated or wins what, there will always be snubs in controversy for awards, however. It feels like the controversy is bringing us backwards in time because it seems to center on race again.
Right. And so we're gonna break this down in depth, but just to kind of set the stage, first of all, there's a lot of talk about sinners getting snubbed. Black director, black, I mean primarily black cast a black story, getting snubbed left and right. And I'll just say like, it got [00:10:00] snubbed again last night in the at the Golden Globes.
~Um. ~It has all started when Rolling Stone. This is incredible to me. Rolling Stone Magazine issued its list of the top 20 movies of 2025. It did not include Sinners where a lot of people believe Sinners is the best movie. Like that's just hard to understand that.
Des: Yeah, that's insane to me. I mean, sinners created, it was such a cultural moment. It created so much conversation around, ~uh, ~filmmaking of looking into all of the research that they put into, people were doing like whole, like dissertations on TikTok about like, okay, did you notice where this, and like, she did like all of this stuff.
It was in, it was insane. ~Uh. ~Karina and I, my partner, we and I had gone to see an opening weekend, not really thinking about it. Just like, oh, I heard this might be good. And as soon as I left the theater, I called my brother and I was like, you have to go see this movie. This was incredible. ~Uh, ~'cause I'm not really like a horror movie fan, but I was like, oh.
There's just so much. [00:11:00] We ended up watching like every person's ~like ~dissection of the film. ~It just, ~it created such a cultural moment. So for it to be completely snubbed is, ~um, ~on that list, the rolling stone, that's asinine to me.
Chris: It is asinine and I think it was, ~there was, they also did things, ~did they shoot it with an iPhone or did they shoot it? They did something in how they shot it. That also was like
Des: Oh, it was, he shot it on film and like you had all of these different opportunities, like I saw it at least twice, but you had all these opportunities to either see it in 35 millimeter, I think maybe seven millimeter imax, like all of these different things, but ~like ~he shot it on Gorgeous, gorgeous film.
Chris: And there was a bunch of, ~um, ~what are they called? Where there's, ~uh, uh, ~uninterrupted shot. There's a name for that, A long shot, like Goodfellas has the most famous one where they walk into the Coca Cabana through the kitchen. ~Um, ~I think it had a number of those. ~Uh, ~I could be wrong there, but anyway, she got.
And we're gonna dive deeper into it. And then you have what we mentioned before, one battle after another. ~Uh, ~which, which is interesting [00:12:00] because, ~uh, ~it actually features very strong black characters in it. However, those characters are portrayed in, ~um, ~a stereotype of oversexualized black women. ~Uh, ~and that is causing controversy.
So des. Here we are. And we have to ask like, are the Oscars still so white? Like, is that the deal? So ~we're gonna, ~we're gonna dig into this, like we said, we're gonna just kinda like there's a lighter topic, but then here we go right into the deep end. ~Are you~
Des: ~Yeah, I don't know. ~Yeah, I mean, we're still waiting of course, for the Oscar nominations to come out, but like right now it definitely feels like Golden Globes so white. ~Um, a lot of, um.~
Chris: ~Right. ~Was it People's choice?
Des: Yeah. That was the, ~um, ~best actor award between Michael B. Jordan and Timothy Shaima and how Timothy Shaima won for this, and people feeling like, are you insane?
Like Michael B. Jordan played two characters, played Twin Brothers, but Okay. [00:13:00] This Marty Supreme is better. Okay, got it. Granted, I haven't seen Marty Supreme. I don't know, I feel like I'm like boycotting it just because of all the conversation. ~Um, ~but I'm sure I'll watch it 'cause I try to watch everything that's Oscar nominated.
Chris: Yeah, for sure. So I'm gonna try to set some stuff up, but. I'm, I'm going to turn the microphone over to my cohost as to really dig into these topics because so many reasons. Like we don't want this to be podcast, so white with ~like ~old, bald white guy, ~like ~riffing on. ~Uh, ~black issues. ~Yeah. Not good, but I will, I will set it up.~
I have opinions, but they're not qualified like yours are. So, um, I think you, you've just, you have so much more experience with this in terms of studying it with your remixing of history, so I can't wait to hear some of your takes, but let's just go back like, what is Oscar so white? So this was really interesting.
I had forgotten how this started. Um, and it was kind of incidental, right? It wasn't, uh. It wasn't a intentional movement. Uh, it [00:14:00] was actually a, a woman named April Rain, who was a campaign finance lawyer, and she had noticed that like, okay, so every single acting category, this was in 20 15, 20 of them all white people.
Like, no, no color whatsoever. ~Uh, ~and so she, she tweeted this tweet is amazing, hashtag Oscar's so white. They asked to touch my hair, which is hilarious, but she, she just threw hashtag Oscar so white. It wasn't like, I'm gonna start a movement, but it went viral. ~Um, ~and it became kind of this. Calling out and it happened again the next year.
So that was really where the attention came. Like, oh really? Again, all 20 are white people. ~Um, ~so just some statistics. And then I'm gonna see what your viewpoint is on, on just kinda the background of racism, ~um, ~in Hollywood does. But, ~uh, ~USC Annenberg Inclusion Initiative. So USC obviously has a very, ~um, ~well-known film school.
~Uh, ~[00:15:00] they cited. That since 1929, there were 13,445 Oscar nominees through, I think this study came out in 2024, so just a couple years ago. So through that date, only 6% of those nominated were people of color. 17% were women and 2% were women of color. So of all of the nominations up to that point, as of 2020 or in 2024.
20% of the nominees were people of color. So that's a big improvement. ~Uh, ~but given that people of color represent 42% of the population, not really still like half representation if you want to look at it that way. Right. So there's a ton we could get into, ~but, ~but what's your perspective on race and Hollywood and movies?
~Um, before we get into why this is a thing now and talk about our current little spin.~
Des: Yeah. I mean, historically, ~um, ~most characters of color in general have been seen as these side characters, right? You know, Hadie McDaniel was the first, ~um. ~Black person, black woman to win. And she was [00:16:00] playing ~a, uh, ~a maid essentially, and gone with the wind. Right? ~Um, ~and then Sidney Poitier won his, but like, I think that's the biggest issue, ~uh, across, ~is that we're always kinda seen as a side character.
So then when you get into movies that are, ~um, ~have a more predominantly black cast, then that scene is like a, oh, that's a black movie over there. For that community. That's not a, you know, that's not for the gen, that's not gen pop, that's for them. Kind of the same thing that we saw, ~uh, ~or see in within music, not as much anymore, but back in the day, like it was, it was labeled like, oh, that's race music.
If it's a, a black act right or an artist, ~um, ~and that's been across the board, look at television, ~um, ~it's still divided even more so today. I will say though, that the nineties had a bit of a resonant, uh, renaissance with, there were a ton of, ~um. Uh, ~majority black cash television shows like sitcoms, like of course the Cosby Show, fresh Prince, ~uh, ~family Matters.
Then you [00:17:00] start to get into Martin, all of these different shows that never got their due. And, ~and, um, ~let's not forget where Friends was originally originated, was the living single, ~um, ~show. But I mean, I think that's across the board. What we've always experienced is that, you know, anything that has to do with a.
Community of color that's, you know, for them only. I think that's the biggest issue is that it can be summed up as like, that is for, you know, this other like niche audience. This isn't a part of the actual art, ~uh, ~form of cinema.
Chris: Yeah, so lack of representation and then very kind of. ~Um, ~cast off representation, I guess I would say. Like, oh no, we're just gonna put that over there. That's, that's for that audience only and doesn't really, we don't need to think about it for the general audiences. ~Um, and so obviously you can, we'll give you some resources here at the end where if you really want to dive into this stuff, you could dig much deeper into the history and all that.~
But let's, let's bring it back to today, right? Why are we talking about this now? So things have gotten a little better, and I would say like if we're talking about people of color. Particularly like, ~um, ~Asians have done very well in awards, especially movie awards. Right? [00:18:00] You had parasite, ~uh, ~win best movie.
You've had Asian directors. ~Um, ~crazy Rich Asians won some awards, right? ~So, ~so better. ~Um, ~didn't it? It won. Some of the actors
Des: everything everywhere, all at once was a
Chris: Everything everywhere, all at once, right? ~Uh, ~but if we're focused on black movies, black characters in black movies, directors, all that, ~uh, ~not so great. ~Right? ~So here's a quick little stat list for you.
Last Black leading actor award was Will Smith for King Richard in 2022. These are Oscars, by the way, only Oscars, which Moonlight won the Oscar in the infamous, oops.
They read the wrong name. ~Uh, win ~Last Black leading actress, Holly Berry for Monsters Ball 2002. Brutal. Best supporting actress. ~Uh, ~I'm gonna pronounce the name wrong, Daniel.
Des: Kalu.
Chris: Thank you. Judas in the Black Messiah in 2021. BES Adaptive screenplay. Spike Lee, black Klansman [00:19:00] 2019. ~Uh, ~best supporting actress, Zoe Saldana from Amelia Perez, 2025.
That was just last year. Last Black Director Des can you, can you name the last black director to win Best Director.
Des: I cannot,
Chris: No, because there has never been, never been so nice. So it's got some work to do. Right. ~Um, ~again, I'm gonna set this up and then I'm gonna let you roll. Well, I'll set up the sinner snub, ~um, ~because I'm with you, like I sinners was freaking amazing, and I do have this thing. I'm, I am subject to the, ~uh, ~overhype let down.
So when something's super hyped, and then I take it in and a lot of times I'm let down ~like, uh, um. ~I was, that was not the case with Sinners. Definitely the case with one battle after another, which we're gonna talk about in a second for me. ~Um, ~but I've watched Sinners twice. I will a hundred percent watch it again as part of this season.
~Uh, ~I just thought it was phenomenal. Right. So [00:20:00] where did this idea of that it was getting snubbed, we talked about Rolling Stone in 2020, or. 2025 December. ~Um, ~list of top 20 movies, not even on it. ~Uh, ~Michael B. Jordan, you mentioned Lost to Best Actor to Timothy Chalamet, I like Timothy Alma. He was amazing in a complete unknown part of me wonders whether it's just like, you know how it works. People get the makeup. Oscar, ~um, ~that happened to, what's his name for Gladiator when he was snub for Beautiful Mind, or vice versa. I can't remember. Russell Crow, ~uh, ~happens all the time.
So maybe that's it. I don't know. But there was a lot of controversy, particularly in the black community about that. ~Uh, ~last night, as we mentioned, shut Outta the Major Awards, ~um, ~which is funny at the Golden Globes because, ~uh, ~the story I pulled said that like, ~um, ~well it won two awards, but they don't really count.
The first one was like some kind of ~like. ~You know, they don't even broadcast it kind of award like best art direction or something, you know, it wasn't terrible, but ~it's not, ~it's not a major award. [00:21:00] And then the other one is the Golden Globes a couple years ago introduced the, ~um, ~best commercial success, which is basically like, oh, ~for the, like ~Wicked won it and the big movies that, you know, we want to just give 'em a nod to, 'cause they made a lot of money.
~Um, ~it's not necessarily like the respected award. ~Um, ~and so it won that. But, ~uh, ~no acting awards. No Best Movie award. No best director, no best screenplay. ~Um, ~which the screenplay, I guess there's original and there's adapted and the Oscars. But in the Golden Globes, it's only one. So there might be like, well, maybe, maybe it'll win for, ~uh, ~what would that, what would it probably win for original?
~Gotta be original, right?~
Des: ~Original. Yeah. ~Ryan Coogler wrote research, did all the things for this one.
Chris: yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so with that, all eyes are on the Oscars for, you know. If it's not nominated, I think people will be in the streets, but it's not just nominated. Is it going to win? ~Um, ~any major awards. Right. And so [00:22:00] that's, that's sinners.
Des: Let's unpack that before we get into the, ~uh, ~one battle after another.
Chris: Okay. Let's do it.
Des: ~Um, so. ~Whenever I come across the conversation around, you know, is it race? ~You know, ~is it this, is it all going back to race? ~And I, ~and I always have to remember, ~I'm like, ~green is the only color that matters. In this world.
Right? And so when I'm looking at the, ~especially these ~last movies that have been, ~um, you know, ~a big smash hits at the award season, they were a 24, which I love. Like I'm an A 24 stand. ~Like ~if their movies are out, I go see it. 'cause it's gonna be good in some way. You know, it might be too weird, but it was like good,
weird.
Chris: time out? Is that, I mean, it's so unique that a production company, ~I guess a producer, I don't know. ~I don't know ~what they're actually, ~what category they are, but I'm with you. I actually own a 24, like where ~I, ~I think the only other. ~A ~company that ~could, ~could claim that as Disney, where if they put out something, people are going to it because [00:23:00] of the company behind it, not the director or the actors of the story or anything.
Right. Am I wrong there? Maybe. Maybe Miramax a little back in the day
Des: Well, ~if you're. ~If you're talking purely just kind of like swag, then Yeah. Disney a 24. But I think as far as, ~um, ~clout, yeah. Miramax used to be like that girl, but of course that fell because Weinstein is a monster. ~Um, ~and so yeah, a a 24 became that like, oh, it's, it's a sample of approval. It's a, if this is a film created by that studio, then I, I wanna go see it.
It's going to be good. ~Um, ~and also what ~they're, ~they're good at is spending their money. When it comes to the four year consideration time of the
Chris: Hmm.
Des: and when you look at, like, ~I, ~I loved, I was thrilled when Parasite won. ~Uh, ~this was what, 2019 right before, or 2020, right before the pandemic. ~Um, ~I was thrilled.
~'cause I, I, ~when I went to that film I was like, this is incredible. ~Um, ~but then a couple years down the road, you see everything everywhere, all at once. Again, another movie that I was so [00:24:00] excited about and had a ball watching and all of ~the, ~the memes and everything that came out after that, but it became very apparent during that particular, ~uh, ~Oscar season that.
Oh, they put a lot of money. They went, they won every category just about that they were in. And so a lot of this has to do with funding, right? And oftentimes, ~uh, ~maybe the, ~uh, ~films that are focused from a block product, ~uh, ~director's perspective, their studio, their production, they don't always get that access and.
We're looking at focusing on merit of the work, when we're playing a game of who's got the most money and connections behind it when it comes to Hollywood. So that's what I think more about when it comes to this conversation is, you know, the money behind it, the machine behind it, and centers may not have the machine ~that, ~that the other films have, so they may not get it, but it, I don't think it is a tie.
~Uh, ~A connects a direct correlation to [00:25:00] the, um, cinematic feat, the incredible storytelling that was done, the art that was created, that was art to me. ~Uh, ~I think it has more to do with, ~you know who, where follow, ~follow the money, follow that particular color of green.
Chris: I don't think this is, ~uh. I don't know if you feel this way, but this isn't ~a saving private Ryan moment.
~Uh, ~a movie that was utterly robbed of best movie by a decent movie, Shakespeare in Love. But like, come on, you're talking about an iconic movie. ~Um, ~I don't know that that's the case here. Maybe it is with sinners, but it's a, it's definitely debate, right? I think it, it's where you have to raise your eyebrow is in the like, oh, here's our top 20 movies, and it's not on there.
Des: Utterly.
Chris: Right? Like that's not even about an Oscar campaign. That's just like, what the hell are you doing? ~Um, ~you know, and so there's other things we'll talk about later too, that lead to Oscar wins and Oscar losses that have nothing to do with race, that have nothing to do with the quality of a movie, frankly.
~Um, ~but it's good to [00:26:00] keep all that in mind, right? Like this is about money. ~Uh, ~sinners made a little bit more money.
Des: A lot more money.
Chris: ~think so. ~I mean, that's the other side of that argument. Like, okay, you know, but Oscars don't like it when you make a lot of money. Also, ~uh, ~you know, that's a sign of popular approval, which means it must not be good.
'cause us people out here in the streets, we can't possibly understand cinema. So let's, let's go with Marty Supreme, like 14 people saw.
Des: So, so yeah, there's that. But let's also look at, you know, again, going back to the money. Who owns the Rolling Stone? Penske Media?
Chris: Penske like ~the, ~the oil racing car company,
Des: ~uh, ~that might be where they get the money. ~I have no, but ~Penske Media, ~uh, company or corporation, I dunno, but they are, ~they own Rolling Stones. They own. The Golden Globes, they own variety.
~They~
Chris: they old, they own the Gold Globes.
Des: They, they own the Golden Globes. It's always interesting to see ~like, you know, ~the different perspectives of what's going on. ~Um, ~but that [00:27:00] of course is, ~uh, ~framed and shaped by ~our, ~our algorithms. But that's the conversation that I'm seeing on my internet is that let's go back to.
Who, who owns all of these things? What is the narrative that they're pushing and that it's all ~con ~completely connected. This has been more of a recent development that this particular media empire owns all of these entities. ~Uh, ~in fact, they didn't necessarily buy the Golden Globes. They bought Dick.
Clark Productions, ~which owned, ~which had bought, ~um, ~the Golden Globe some years back, ~uh, ~only a few years back. So let's that, that's a part of that. What is the narrative? What is the agenda that this particular group is pushing? And to that point that there might be some connectivity to race there, which is why there is all of this big.
Push for Marty Supreme after, ~you know, flop. Um, uh, ~flop of a release over the Christmas, ~um, uh, ~holiday weekend, ~um, ~compared to sinners back in the spring. ~Um. ~So it was also very interesting to see how sinners was talking about as far as the headlines around it, where it was essentially saying like, oh, well, [00:28:00] you know, it was a, ~um, you know, ~will it have, ~uh, ~any kind of, ~uh, ~like everything that there was, ~uh, ~tied to, had sort of an asterisk around its credibility as a film.
Whereas Marty Supreme, which no one has seen, gets all of this accolades and like immediately. ~Even the folks that I know have seen it, like some of 'em even walked out on it, right? And so again, ~it goes back to the narrative and the muddy. Who owns this? Who owns the story here? And it's Penske
Chris: Well, and in this day and age, like we are living in new times where there's explicit outward appeal to a political. Leader in law firms, media companies, you name it. Like, oh, ~like, we'll, we'll ~we'll do this, we'll do that to please our president. Honestly, I'm just gonna put it right out there. ~Um, ~like even right now, ~you know, ~the huge media acquisition situation with Paramount and Netflix ~and, um.~
~Oh, I don't remember who the other player is. Uh, ~you know, they don't want Netflix to own this thing 'cause Netflix turns out not to be a, ~you know, ~[00:29:00] supporter of Trump. And so very likely that I think his Paramount is trying to do a competitive bid led by Larry Ellison's son, Larry Ellison has been very like, so it goes like, you do have to question what is happening these days.
Because it's out there ~in, ~in broad daylight that this is happening. That people are like, oh, we are going to say and do these things. A, to either get something from the administration or to avoid negative impact from the administration. ~Um, that's, ~that's the truth that the world we live in, like that's not me.
That's not an opinion that is literally happening. ~Um, and so ~what you're talking about, des, 98% of the people, including me, have no concept. That there's one organization behind all of these different public facing things that we all know. ~Um, ~I don't know anything about Penske, so I have no idea whether they're a, ~you know, ~MAGA donor, Republican Trump support, who knows?
~Um, they may not be, but ~they also may have been like, well, look, we don't want any, like, [00:30:00] you know, we don't wanna be accused of being woke, so ~we're gonna, ~we're gonna avoid all that stuff and focus on Timothy Chalamet, who. Is pretty damn woke. So like, fuck, maybe they could have picked on the ra, they could have ~like ~promoted the Reagan movie maybe. I don't know.
Des: Well, I don't know how awoke Timothy, ~uh, ~is. ~Um, ~but ~this was all brought to my, ~this was all brought to my attention, ~uh, ~by ~Blake, uh, ~Blake Lee Thornton, ~uh, ~who is a, ~I don't know, ~pop culture, ~like. A ~person that I follow. ~Um, ~and ~he had dropped something about, like, ~he had a post about Hollywood's right wing news media empire where he has like on a background, it has essentially all of the different brands that Penske, ~uh, ~media owns.
And, ~uh, ~this is on by Jay Penske, but his father is definitely a huge supporter of Trump. ~Um, ~I then learn more about that, ~uh, ~from a different, ~uh, ~person, ~um, ~that's talking about this, which is his name is. Jared Jenkins. ~Um, and so ~I was like, oh my God, the, like connecting the dots here. They're doing like ~cce, ~CIA level of digging into like follow the money.
~Um, ~but again, like I said, this is [00:31:00] all a little bit newer where all of these brands are sitting under this one gigantic media empire. But you have to, ~it, it, ~it makes you think about ~like ~what. There is something behind this and that what we're seeing and what we're experiencing out in the world is being paralleled, ~uh, ~right here in Hollywood.
And we're gonna watch it. We've have watched it play out on the Golden Globes just the other night, so the Oscars will be very telling as to how they're going to, ~um, ~respond to this. I'm sure the votes have already been in, but it'll be very interesting to see how that actually shakes up knowing that who owns Golden Globes versus who's leading the Oscars.
Chris: Yes. All right. So that was a nice wormhole of stuff. I had no idea. ~Um, ~thank God that you're doing your homework. ~Uh, ~we've got one other topic to talk about and ~we're, we're, ~we're pressing time, so I wanna get to it. Uh, one battle after or another. I already kind of mentioned it. ~Um, ~this is where I shut up.
~Uh, ~'cause ~I, ~I am not the person to be talking about the oversexualization of black women and black fetish and all that stuff. ~Um. ~'cause I don't have [00:32:00] any, I have no knowledge of it other than it's a thing. ~So,~
Des: it's something ~that ~you noticed, right?
Chris: ~um, I mean ~I noticed the characters were sexual a hundred percent. ~Yeah. ~Did I notice that they were oversexualized?
Did I know that? That's like a classic Jezebel trope. ~No, ~no. Well, look at me. I don't know shit. Right? Me and.
Des: Yeah.
Chris: Most of the populace, I would guess, have no idea that that's a thing that's going on, I'm guessing.
Des: I mean, watching the film, ~um, ~I did definitely notice, I'm trying to remember if I had ~gone, I've ~gotten a heads up just from some of the folks that I follow if it had been mentioned before, seeing one battle after ~the, uh, ~another. ~Um, ~but the Tiana Taylor character, ~uh, ~is essentially a central focus of the first half of the movie.
And ~like, you're ~like, we're riding for her because she's out here. Guns are blazing. You know, pregnant with her daughter, like with the big gun out here, activists, ~um, ~taking matters into their own hands and it's like [00:33:00] glorious. ~Um, ~but then ~the, ~the second half of the movie, she's, ~you know, ~all but ~like ~forgotten.
~Um, but when, but. ~That part about what she has been, ~um, ~on screen. It was connected to the, ~um, ~Sean Penn character and that she was the object of affection for both, ~um, ~the Leonardo DiCaprio character, you know, who she had had a child with, but then also, ~you know, ~the guy on the enemy line, Sean Penn. ~Um, ~and that there's definitely the Oversexualization.
And you had ran across an article where. Tiana Taylor, who shout out to her. She got her first Golden Globes award for this role, ~um, ~the other night. ~Um, ~but that she talks a bit about ~the, um, uh, ~her experience with that.
Chris: I think what's interesting is she actually. Defends the character. ~Uh, she did a, ~she did a interview with Hollywood Reporter, ~uh, ~in November and she said, is that not what black women go through? We are fetishized, especially by creepy mother Bleepers, which Sean Penn plays a completely creepy mother epper.
We are unfortunately the least protected people. And noted that portraying what black women go through [00:34:00] is a really hard, it is a hard reality to accept. And this movie should spark debate. I always knew it would, because sometimes you just gotta shake the table. So I think that's an interesting take ~from the, ~from the actress who played the character.
Um, so I don't know, I, it, it's, you can see both sides of it, but also like, my takeaway from the movie was the character actually. While she's the object of affection from a creepy mother bleeper, she returns that affection. So it seems to like further the stereotypical trope. So it's hard for me ~to ~to follow that all the way through.
Des: Yeah, I mean essentially like her quote about, you know, is that not what black women go through? It's what black women go through does make everyone uncomfortable because you have to sit with the reality of that. And the reality is that we have been over sexualized since childhood. That's what she's referring to is that, you know, as a young black girl, you are automatically connected to [00:35:00] sexuality long before your other peers, maybe other girls of other races, ~other uh, the boys, ~but like automatically you're seen as this.
Oh, you know, ~uh, ~she, she's hypersexual and she's like, no, she's 12. Right. And so the, ~uh, ~the rate of sexual assault to young black girls is attributed to like, oh, you know, ~they're, ~they seem older than they're what they actually are. And it's like, how? Because of what, you know, somebody, ~um, ~came up with all of these years ago and then kind of put that on us.
Maybe this of course, ~uh, ~might have happened during slavery, but our entire existence has been around our sexuality and it started at such a young and inappropriate age. So then, yeah, there is that conversation around. ~Um, ~the fetishization of black women, fetishization of women of, color in general, especially amongst, ~um, ~the white gaze, ~uh, ~GAZE with a Z.
~Um, and so that's what we're kind of getting into in this conversation of that particular movie. ~And your question around like, well, she, you know, she. have relations with him, right? [00:36:00] And yeah. So what's wrong with that? ~Um, ~I think there's a nod to what she says ~about, um, in, in that article. Um, there's something ~about our existence.
Like we are experiencing this on different fronts, even, you know, how that manifests into our adulthood, right? And at times you can kind of make that work for your advantage. ~I'm getting a call from my mom. Um, ~you either make that work, ~uh, ~and to your situation, which apparently she's doing perhaps in this movie, ~um, ~or you deflect.
But what's really interesting is that there has been more of a conversation in, ~um, ~the dating realm here lately about dating outside of one's race and encouraging more black women to date outside of their race. Because there are obviously, ~you know, ~other men, white men. ~Uh, ~east Asian men, what have you, Latino men who are actually interested in, ~um, ~and I'm speaking permanently from a hetero perspective, ~uh, ~which I know nothing about, ~but, um, ~but that's the conversation is that, hey, you are deserving of love and, ~and.~
You can date outside the [00:37:00] race. ~Um, ~but that has always been kind of this taboo thing or this taboo conversation. ~Um, ~but when we're seeing it play out here on the screen, it does bring out a lot. It brings up a lot of questions, which to her point is the point, there is no rule, is that going to continue the stereotype?
And it's like, well, stereotypes exist for a reason, but right now. They're putting it up to her faces to actually look at and like, what does that mean and what does that reflect in our own desires? To me it feels very similar to more of the, ~um. ~Like, ~uh, ~you know, the conversations around like, oh, ~uh, ~whenever there's a bunch of gay Republicans that Grindr goes down because everyone is on Grindr because everyone is closet like gay.
Like these men are closet like gay. It's kind of this similar thing where like coming to reality with like, what is our actual desires, our attractions, our sexuality, and this is maybe just another, ~uh, ~conversation around that.
Chris: So you thought we were just gonna talk about the movies and TV shows we like to watch and. That is that we are in the [00:38:00] deep end now, so we're gonna wrap, but let's talk about some things that we should do, right? Like I think, I think the important, a couple important things for me to kick off and then I'll let you weigh into one.
This isn't about artistic preference, right? This, this topic that we're talking about, racism in Hollywood and the sexualization of women and, ~uh, ~black women specifically, you know, that goes beyond whether I like Marty Supreme or I like. Centers. Right? Because that's always going to be there. And that's, that's the fun of award season is to, to have those debates.
Right? ~Um, ~and just because, ~um, you know, ~a white actor beats a black actor, doesn't mean it's racism necessarily. But to your point about. Penske and all that stuff, you really gotta make sure that you understand the whole context of whatever it's you're looking at. ~Um, and there's other things too, like I mentioned this before, I won't go deep into it, but ~there's a lot of evidence that says, Hey, ~the, ~the best chance to win an Oscar is when you release the movie in October, November, or December.
Sinners came out earlier in the year, right? So it's already up against the eight ball. So, [00:39:00] so anyway, you gotta keep all that into context.
~Um, I, ~I think like it's clear, Hollywood still has to work on racial representation, ~um, ~both from what you shared about kind of the. Underbelly of the media ~conglomerate ~conglomerates that run a lot of the variety ~and, ~and all that stuff. ~Uh, ~but also just from the movies and the nominations and all that.
~Um, ~and I would say like, if you really want to get into this, we've got resources, some really cool resources from the National Museum of African American History and Culture from Dartmouth. ~Uh, ~UCLA puts out a Hollywood diversity report every year. And again, UCLA has a pretty respected film school. ~Um, ~so those are resources if you wanna learn more, dig more into it.
But des I think like, I wanna let you wrap us on kind of using your own judgments, understanding, framing and narrative and all of that as a great way to kind of close out our convo here.
Des: Yeah, I mean all of this tells me more about the pay attention to the framing, right? So when we're looking [00:40:00] at headlines about films or music or anything, really think to yourself, you know, would they write this about a white, let film with these numbers. You know, the way that they talked about Sally, or with skepticism about the success of sinners.
You know, they didn't have that same energy when it came to Marty Supreme, which did not. Have a fraction of the numbers at the box office. Granted, the movie's only been out for maybe like two weeks, three weeks or so. ~Um, ~but still pay attention to that. ~Um, ~as far as ~the, ~the media conglomerate you had mentioned, you know, look at who.
Owns what, right? Where, who is pushing the same narrative and a lot of times they are connected and that they have an agenda behind that. So what learning that Penske Media owns, all of these outlets taught me a lot about what I can look at and what I can trust. ~Um, ~but for us, as you know, the moviegoers, obviously we have zero control over what's going on in Hollywood.
However, we can speak with th dollars. Um, [00:41:00] and we are going to go and like obviously the. Cinematic feat. The box office success of Sinners told folks. And what CDOs actually care about the most is what movies are making the most money. Well, we showed up and we showed out. We went multiple times to see sinners.
So keep that same energy with these films that you do love and appreciate. ~Um, and ~if there's something that's being overly touted. Pay attention to that. Like, why, why is that? What is the agenda behind that? So it's all about, again, just paying attention. ~Um, ~because everything I, I've learned, this has been the biggest thing about being in marketing for these last several years, is that everything is marketing.
Everything is pushing some sort of agenda. ~Um, ~so pay attention to what and who is speaking the loudest when you've watched it or you feel like, ah, ~this feels a bit off. ~This feels a bit off.
Chris: So you're being generous when you say everything's marketing. ~Um, ~I might say, ~uh, ~what you say is marketing is also propaganda. ~Um, you know ~Right. If you've got ~a, ~a media
Des: is propaganda. ~Yeah.~
Chris: Yeah. I mean, are they, maybe that's a synonym. [00:42:00] Right, honestly. So, ~uh, ~but marketing and the service of money, propaganda and the service of money, always, always, always, always.
It's always there. It's who we are as a country, ~um, ~for better and most of the time for. Worse. Worse, worse, worse. Unless you're a billionaire and you're doing great. All right, we're gonna wrap. Wrap this episode. Dez. Thank you. This is, this was a good one. This is a fun one. Was this lighter? I'm not sure this was lighter.
~I.~
Des: Oof. ~I don't know if it was lighter Now.~
Chris: No, it was, we tried, we tried to start with the light topic, but we knew it might go, you know, to a, a deeper place and it definitely did that. But thank you, thank you for bringing all your, your wisdom. ~Uh, ~thank you all for joining us for episode three. We hope this is helping you cope, ~uh, ~in some way with the world around us.
Uh, if you're a huge centers fan and trying to figure out what's going on, uh, or you're put off by one battle after another, hopefully this helped you see some things differently. Uh, please like and subscribe to [00:43:00] podcasts on iTunes and Spotify. It helps ensure that other people get to hear us visit.
Baring two 80 seven.com, which is now launched officially. ~Uh, ~the, the, our organization's launched. And again, follow me on substack because ~the, ~the idea of a Hollywood propaganda machine that's been running for decades, ~um. ~That elevates white voices and suppresses voices of color. ~Uh, ~isn't a surprise, but ~I still didn't, ~I still didn't know those things were connected.
Right. It's a hundred percent the kinda stuff we're gonna talk about, ~uh, ~with the 1985 project. So you can follow and ~maybe I'll, ~maybe I'll do a little more digging on that and write a story on that. That would be cool to connect the two. ~Uh, ~so I'm Chris Bevelo on behalf of, I'm not even supposed to be here and bearing 2 87.
Thank you for listening. See you next time.