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This is part two of our three part series where Travis Bader and Paul Ballard discuss situational awareness in an urban environment. This episode centres around what to expect when you are in condition red and the fight is on.
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The Silvercore Podcast explores the mindset and skills that build capable people. Host Travis Bader speaks with hunters, adventurers, soldiers, athletes, craftsmen, and founders about competence, integrity, and the pursuit of mastery, in the wild and in daily life. Hit follow and step into conversations that sharpen your edge.
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I'm Travis Bader
and this is The
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All right.
Here's the much
anticipated part
two of the urban
awareness podcasts
that we've recorded a
couple of weeks ago.
Now we decided to break
it down into three parts
before the incident,
during the incident
and after the incident.
And we've actually
received a fair bit of
feedback from the first
podcast that came out.
And we're going to
be talking about that
a little bit in this
podcast, but the crux
of this prod cast
episode here will
be some suggestions
on what to do if you
are in an incident,
the during stage.
And, you know, we talked
about some other colors
and in our first podcast,
it was a big emphasis
on yellow and orange.
Today it's red and
contrary to everything
you've ever learned.
Red is go, red is go,
and we're going to
learn how we make red
as the go, or learn.
We're going
to discuss it.
This is not a, this is
not a training thing,
this is a discussion.
Now I should shut
out right at the
very beginning.
One of the people I
spoke with is, uh, he's
an ex British special
forces, uh, individual
who's written a book on
this topic about what
we're talking about now.
He hasn't published a
book yet, but he's in
the process of getting
it published, but he has
a social media account
called sixsight.co
S I X S I G H t.co.
And if you go on his
TikTok account or on his
Instagram account, You're
going to see a whole ton
of useful information,
broken down into just
little bite sized chunks
and you'll take some
videos and you'll look
at it and I'd recommend
anybody after listening
to this, check that out.
Okay.
I also had a, uh, an
individual call up
Paul, were talking
about this earlier and
he works for the Range
Langley, fantastic range.
I'd recommend anybody
in the lower mainland
or anyone visiting
the lower mainland.
Go check out The
Range Langley.
You don't even need to
have a firearms license,
you can rent firearms,
you can use them there.
But, uh, this fellow,
Jared, he's a range
officer there and he
was sitting in a Browns.
What is it?
socialhouse, browns pub.
Brown socialhouse,
I guess.
Brown socialhouse.
There's a plug for
brown socialhouse.
I guess so, out in
Burnaby and this was
2017 and there was a
shooting that happened
right in front of him.
And he was on a
date at the time.
So we'll talk a little
bit about the, that
incident or what
he relayed in it.
In the during, as well
as we'll touch a little
bit on the after and
then get into more
of the next podcast.
Yeah.
And I think it's
important before we
get into this, too,
just to talk about the
impressions that we
got from the listeners.
And one of the
things was, you
know, people said,
oh Jesus, all great.
You know, uh, if it's a
shooting or a stabbing or
a, an active, um, type of
situation like that, but
this needs to, you know,
open your mind here.
This, this applies
to, uh, an individual
assault, this applies
to you're out for a
jog, uh, and somebody
starts to jog with
you or follow you, uh,
you know, leading to
a potential robbery
or sexual assault,
any, anything that is
of a traumatic event.
At the, you know, sort
of at the behest of
somebody who has evil
intent, we really have
to, you know, emphasize
this is not, you
know, training for the
accidental occurrence.
This is not for the,
you know, trip and
fall type of thing.
This is where somebody
has evil intent and
you need to be able to,
you know, avoid that.
And that's where
we're going with this.
So it, you know, again,
uh, you're out there
walking your dog fluffy
and, uh, coming the
other way is the urban
wolf on the end of
somebody's chain and,
you know, understanding
what happens if all of
a sudden that that pit
bull turns and starts
to take your fluffy
apart, how are you, you
know, are you, have you
got a plan beforehand?
And I'm not here to talk
from a dog's trainer's
perspective, but, you
know, do you have a plan?
What, what you
going to do?
If, if fluffy gets
attacked, what's the
right thing to do.
So, you know, again,
that can be as traumatic
as, that can be
probably to some people,
even more traumatic
than them getting
attack themselves so.
You know, the difficult
part I had when kind of
formulating my thoughts
on all of this is that
almost everything that
we talk about can also go
into the, before podcasts
and trying to separate
the during and the after,
because all of the points
that we talk about in
during are something that
you should be mentally
prepared for before.
Right.
And things that happen
after you should have a
plan, beforehand, of how
you would deal with these
things in the aftermath,
because there's, there's
a lot to the, after.
Yes.
And I mean, we are,
you know, in the
during, this is the
execution of the plan.
Now the, you know,
at this point we
have recognized that
there is potential.
It's a, and we're not
looking for it to happen,
we just are recognizing
that it could.
Uh, this is not
this, when it will
happen, this, it could
happen and are you
ready when it could?
So planning, we've
recognized that
it could happen.
We've recognized that
we're going to take steps
uh, once we recognize a
situation has changed,
that no longer are we,
you know, in our day to
day, we're moving from
code yellow to code
orange, we see, you
know, there's potential
for something to change.
And now, it's gone off,
the, off, it's it's it's
now imminent, imminent,
real, and a direct
threat to yourself, your
family, your dog, uh,
whatever the case may be.
Right.
And how are you going
to go into that?
So red is go.
Red is absolutely go.
When you find yourself
going, there's no
getting out of this at
this point, I've got a
flee, uh, and like, not
just walk away, flea,
not cross the street.
As we talked about
in code orange, this
is as fast as your
legs can move you.
Uh, you must get out
of the attack zone, uh,
the threat zone that's,
that's there and, and
menacing, you know, your
potential wellbeing.
And that means all
the things that
you thought about.
As you were in code
orange, looking for
your escape route,
you're now execute.
So over that planter, uh,
around the car, behind
the car to get out of,
you know, some ballistic
protection, if it's, if
it's a firearm situation
to get physical distance.
If it's a blade, uh,
to, you know, to avoid
that, get out of physical
reach, um, start calling
for help as well is
another part of that.
You know, plan that
you've had before
all of these things.
And done without
emotion, like, oh, this
will be embarrassing
if I start yelling
for help, forget that.
It's, it's now to the
point where you're going
to yell for help, you're
going to scream at
the top of your lungs.
You're going to make the
biggest scene you can,
you know, if somebody's
physically trying to
take your wallet to,
to molest you, to,
you know, pull your
child out of your arms.
To hurt you, to
do damage to.
Yes!
You or harm you and
the ones you love.
You've got to completely,
uh, eliminate your
ego about ohh, what
will people think
of me if I do that?
Well, that part has,
has, has left, uh,
that scenario you are
now in it for good.
I've heard that one a
lot from people coming
back as being a barrier
to acting properly,
was the fact that they
were embarrassed of
looking foolish or not
doing the right thing.
And that led to inaction.
Absolutely.
And I, I have seen that
not a lot, but I have
seen that, uh, in uniform
police officers, on duty
police officers, where
they are not acting to
the full, you know, uh,
efficiency at that moment
because of what are other
people going to think?
And they've got all
the eyes on them.
That's right.
And they've got all
the after repercussions
as well, looming
in their head.
Which is maybe something
we're going to, you know,
in-law, not we, I'm out
of it, but those who
are the trainers for law
enforcement going to have
to address, is this, you
know, reservation as a
result of what appears
to be immediate lack of
support for the police.
I still believe that, you
know, Jane and, and, uh,
Joel Canadian and, you
know, the, the citizens
out there think the cops
are doing a good job
and are wholly behind
them, but they're just
not voicing that enough
for the, for the good
people, law enforcement
to realize it.
However, getting back
to that, um, when the
moment comes, your
ego leaves, you do
everything you can.
Um, we are still heavy
emphasis on what our
discussion here is for
an armed or an unarmed
civilian in society.
We are not talking armed
service personnel, either
military or police.
That's not the purpose of
what we're saying here.
So now within
physical limitations,
if it's, if it's.
Within your ability
to fight off the
situation, then you do
it and you fight with
such determination and
drive that whatever
the situation is, you
fight till it stops.
Now, legally you've,
you've thought about that
beforehand, because you
can use as much force as
is necessary to stop that
assault, but no more.
No more.
That's a bit of a
tightrope isn't it.
Right, and, and when
we think about this is,
you know, the desire,
once your attacker is
down to start laying the
boots to them, this is
what separates us from
those kinds of people.
Honestly, uh, when the
person is down and the
situation is ended, maybe
now just withdraw and,
you know, and, and get
away from them, you know,
you've, you've, you've
stopped that assault.
That's, that's another
thing, but that,
that desire to think
you should sit there
and make them pay,
that's not up to you.
That's, you know, in,
uh, in our society.
However, society
completely allows
you to stop something
that's happening to you.
So you've, you've
actually touched on a
whole bunch of points
in just that short
little bit of time.
Uh, I think anybody
who's going to find
themselves in this
situation should be
completely prepared for
the adrenal dump and the
physiological effects and
the psychophysiological
effects of that
adrenal dump.
Of feeling like they're
operating in slow motion
of not being able to
articulate their thoughts
well, or to really think
as well as they normally
would in an, in their
pre training situation.
Yes.
So the, the physical, or
the physiological effects
of visual narrowing,
auditory exclusion, uh,
the adrenaline dump of,
you know, near superhuman
strength that you never
thought you had, those
are all good things,
like even, you know,
you're so scared you,
you wet your pants, but
you gotta think now,
well, I don't have to
worry about that anymore.
That's over, you know,
that that's the, the,
the ego side, but,
you know, I try not
to make light of it.
You know.
Nobody wants to fight the
person who just crapped
themselves, right?
That's, that is, that's
or throw up, boy,
I'll tell you there's,
you know, a lot to be
said, if, if you feel
physically ill and can
throw up, that might
stop somebody wanting
to hang onto you or
touch you, you know,
that, that revulsion
that they would find.
It, it sounds funny and
it's not something a
lot of people thought
about, but that's it.
If that's, if that's
your, uh, you know,
the, the arrow that
you have in the quiver
at that time, draw
that arrow in fire it,
you know, it's there.
If you've been fortunate
to have maybe taken some
form of, of martial art
or you're just good with
your hands and you think
that you can overpower
your attacker, man, this
is the time to do it and
do it with efficiency.
No, no half measures.
A punch to stop the
assault, not a punch just
for the sake of a punch.
And that's, that's
another thing I've
seen a lot of in my
experience is, not
hitting hard enough.
You know, when, when it
goes to trial later and,
and you're concerned
about, you know,
explaining yourself,
cause you're what we
would call a nice person,
a normal person, property
raised, good parents.
You don't want to look
at the judge and say,
yeah, you know, I, I
had him, your honor.
And of course the
defense says, well, how
hard did you hit him?
Well I didn't want
to hit him too hard.
No, the answer is, I hit
him as hard as I could
at that moment to try
and stop the assault.
And, and again, don't let
your ego hold you back.
It's the point though,
where you recognize
that you've stopped
it, that you have to
break yourself away.
So when we talk about
getting in a physical
altercation, I've
always found space
or distance is your
friend in all of this.
And it's all about either
increasing that distance,
you got reactionary gaps,
so you can start to make
some better decisions
because of threats a
little bit further away.
Or decreasing that
reactionary gap.
If you've made that
decision to go hands-on
because a lot of times,
if someone's going to
be trying to hurt you
and they're using their
hands, or they're using
a weapon, decreasing
that distance will put
you in a safer zone.
For example, a baseball
bat, there is a very
dangerous area of
someone's swinging
a baseball bat and
that's going to be at
the tip of that bat.
If you can get far
enough away that the bat
doesn't hit you at all.
Perfect.
If you can't get in
tight, get in close, get
hands on and do whatever
you have pre-conditioned
yourself to, to try
and stop that threat.
And if that just means
grabbing onto the
person and holding them
until other people can
come in and help you.
Then that's,
that's what you do.
And the other thing
that you brought up
Paul, which I think is
of huge importance was
what, in the policing
world, they called
tactical communication.
Use your voice.
If that means yelling
and screaming and just
to get eyes on you.
Great.
But if you can use
that time to articulate
something such as go
away, leave me alone.
Don't touch me.
You're not, if someone's
pretending that let's
say you're a female and
someone's pretending
that you're their
husband or boyfriend,
you're not my husband,
you're not my boyfriend.
Get, make it clear to
everybody else around
what's happening, because
you're doing two things.
You're hoping to get
a desired effect out
of the individual and
maybe they'll comply and
you've, you could use
your voice in order to
prevent having to use
physical harm, but you're
also creating witnesses.
Yes.
And, and what you're
saying there too is, we
are talking to the people
out there and we're
saying, you're going to
recognize that this stuff
could happen, you're
going to have a plan.
You're going to be
ahead of yourself
because you've
thought about that.
But you yelling,
you're not my husband.
You're not, I don't
know you, this man does,
this has, help me, help
me, is going to maybe
draw somebody else in
that's thinking, oh
my God, this is real,
what I'm seeing here.
Right.
And maybe that's going
to cause them to react.
In society, they're
sheep, there's wolves
and there's sheepdogs.
And this is just
the way it is.
Not every sheep dog
wears a uniform.
Not every sheep dog
has had training.
Sheepdog is inside,
it's in your heart.
And there are people
that, you know, it
doesn't take much and
suddenly that inner
sheepdog comes up.
A mother and her child,
is one of those things.
That, again, I see, man,
you threaten a child
around that child's
mother and there's a
woman who's not formally
trained in everything.
That's a person who
can go into code
red quite easily.
And for, you know,
without any formal
training, really take
care of business at that
time, do the right thing.
We talk, at length about
exiting the situation,
you know, plan of escape,
but you know what, there
are just some people that
are, aren't going to do
that they are sheepdog.
They're going to
take care of other
people, people they
don't even know.
You know, we often have
words for them like
heroes, you know, like
that person was a hero.
That was a person
that has that inner
sheepdog, and it, and
it gets out in that
moment and they, they,
you know, bless them.
They put their,
their, others ahead
of themselves in the
moment and that's
going to happen.
Not, you know, not
everybody is going to
run away, but if it
comes down to it, if
it's you or somebody
else, you gotta pick
you and your family.
Right.
You gotta.
Right.
You know, that's the
most important thing.
And, uh, but again,
make it real, get
rid of that ego.
Absolutely anything
you think that, that,
uh, you can, you can
offer up that will make
other people realize
that they need to
get involved in that?
You know.
One thing that I, I find
often is that people
will mentally prepare,
they will physically
condition themselves.
They'll make sure they've
got the cardiovascular
strength to be able
to go a few rounds of
somebody and come out on
top because quite often
fights are just won by
the person with the best
cardio, not necessarily
the most technique or
the strongest individual.
But in that whole quiver
of arrows that they have,
uh, they should always
be keeping in mind, is
there a possible way to
deescalate the situation,
but they shouldn't
hold that so close
that all they're trying
to do is deescalate.
It's a, there is a fine
line between training
a person to be a sheep
and training them to
be a sheepdog, or just
training that person
to be a wolf , because
you can, you can give
so much information out
there that everyone just
leaves and they're just
ready for the fight and
they're ready for the
next thing that happens.
So looking to deescalate,
but not having that
as the hindering block
to, uh, to actually
having some action.
And in a lot of
cases, hopefully the
deescalation occurred
in code orange.
The deescalation was by
taking opportunity away.
And at that point
actually creating
sufficient physical
distance or a barrier,
uh, that stopped
that initial attack.
But now we're talking
the attack is on
and I totally agree.
You get some distance
we'll give you time.
Time will give you the
chance to think, but
it can work against
you in giving your
adversary time now to
think, and they can re
um, renew their assault
with a little bit more
planning on their part.
Remember, everybody's
suffering this
extreme, emotional,
um, effected at that
time, the attacker,
the, the victim or the
person being attacked.
It, it, it is
all there, right?
You can, you know,
ever watch a little
dog that gets attacked
by a much bigger dog.
And the, the bigger dog
comes in, recognizes
that, you know, it's,
it's got that, you know,
superior strength and
size and everything else.
But the little dog
goes absolutely bizerk.
He bears his teeth,
he opens his eyes,
his eyes roll back and
he doesn't run away.
He just keeps screaming.
And it's, you know, the
sounds that come out of
that little dog or like,
you know, and you watch
the big dog go that was
not what I expected.
And that is who
you got to beat.
You got to not be
what they expected.
The wolf expects you
to just, you know,
once they're grabbed
to maybe offer some,
you know, ineffective
resistance and that's it.
We're not here to train
people, you know, in
physical defense, you
know, or, or techniques
or anything else.
Right.
But even though you've
never thought about it
before, never got, you
know, hands-on with
another person, you
got to remember the
eyes of your attacker.
If you don't have
distance and you are
close, you gotta, as
you're screaming, think
about, oh man, the
screaming is not making
this person let go.
It's not slowing
the attack.
You might now have
to get physical.
And the simplest thing,
if your hands are free
and your thumb with its
two solid joints is to
make that thumb straight,
lay the flat of your hand
against the side of a
person's head and push
your thumbs as far into
their eyes, as you can.
And as much as you know,
people can take steroids
and lift weights.
Uh, we don't see too
many people except
real showman that
are lifting weights
with their eyelids.
You can force your thumb
through that eyelid.
You can get in there
and that threat or
that attack to the eye,
hopefully can give you
some time, get some
distance, distance
and time they're
interrelated, you know.
And it's not like on TV,
it's not like, thumb goes
in the eye, eyes done.
It's out.
I've had my thumb about
halfway into a person's
eye before thinking, for
sure this person is going
to be blind afterwards.
And nope.
When the thumb came out
and the person got off
it, and that, that gets
a person out of your
face pretty damn quick.
Yeah.
Uh, he had a cut under
his eye and his eye went
right back into place.
But it's a
very unpleasant
feeling I'm sure.
At the moment.
From the way that that
individual reacted.
Yeah.
And we all can relate
to the, you know, the
bang on the tip of the
nose and, you know,
a flat palm driven
into the tip of the
nose and just start
turning that cartilage
round and round.
And I mean, it does
absolutely nothing to
somebody who's a, you
know, a serious fighter.
Who's had their nose
broken lots of times, but
the average person, if,
you know, particularly
if it's a, it, if it is
a true coward, that's
there to, uh, attack
a smaller person.
They probably have not
and that might be enough
to distract them as well.
But the triangle between
the eyes and the tip
of the nose, if your
hands are free, you
know, and that's the
best we can offer up
on this, you know,
this podcast, right?
The rest of it can
be followed up by a
host of individuals
that are out there.
And maybe just
think, what's not
allowed in the UFC.
And maybe there's
a reason why.
Or, yeah, that's right.
Any.
Grabbin' the hair, if
the person has hair.
Yep.
I've broken fingers on
hair before from, from
being in an altercation,
but it's really difficult
to keep a head up and
for a person, typically
they don't have much
muscle in their neck
and you can really
control an individual
through doing the things
that they tell you
not to do in organized
professional events.
Biting, yeah.
That's cheating.
Yeah.
Well, there's no
cheating in code red.
And that's it.
There's no rules in
code red, except when
you've stopped the
attack on you, you
must then withdraw.
You must, not withdraw,
but you cannot continue
to, you know, to
finish somebody off.
It's it's just that,
is that's the only
rule we have here.
Tell me this, Paul,
quite often people
say, well, you got to
meet force with force.
What do you
think about that?
Equal force.
If someone.
No.
The, your force must
multiply you, you
know, you've got to hit
twice as hard for it.
That's the only
way to go over it.
I mean, in law
enforcement, um, the
need to control an
individual is, is, is,
you know, addressed
in the gymnasium in,
you know, or the, the
dojo if somebody is
taking formal martial
arts and what it takes
in a traditional sense
to disable or overcome
somebody is shocking.
Like when people think,
oh yeah, you know, in the
gym and you have a big
padded stick and you say,
all right, we're going to
strike him on the thigh.
And that's going to
cause the thigh to buckle
and away it goes, is
great, until you finally
figure out that this
stuff, you gotta hit way
harder than you ever got
hit or hit somebody in
training for it to work.
And that's, again, that
ego thing, you got a
really, you know, it's
no, unless you have
that training, you
know, you've, you've
got to hit way harder
than you expected.
You've got to push
yourself to your absolute
limits until it stops.
And don't be afraid.
And that's where the
trading sometimes
falls apart.
When people are
training in a martial
art, that's an art and
it's great, and it's
great for mental and
physical conditioning.
But when they continually
train, I hit you here,
you go down, we do this.
You hit me here, or I
punch, you block and
you start getting this
training mindset of,
well, when I throw my
punch, I'm not throwing
to connect because he's
got, my opponents, got
a practice their block.
You can really ingrain
some negative effects
from this training,
that whole mental
detachment and.
You've said it so many
times now, absolute
ruthless aggression,
being able to take
their mind and say,
I'm not stopping
until this is over.
Right.
And that, that is
really, uh, difficult
thing to, you know,
to invoke, cause
it's not an emotion,
it's just, it's raw.
It is completely raw.
It's taking how
you've trained, what
you know, what you
have in your skillset
and utilizing it.
Okay.
Um, and I'm totally
trying to avoid, you
know, firearms in
this whole thing.
They're like, that's.
Well, that's your
background, you're a
firearms instructor, so
it's easy to go to that.
And I want to take out,
you know, the use of
a blade in response to
an attack, you know,
that's, those are all
things that, uh, we
can't advocate here.
You, you can't tell
somebody that that is
the right thing to do
because we're, you know,
this is Canadian law.
This is it.
You, you are allowed a
weapon of opportunity
by all means.
So somebody is attacking
you with a baseball
bat and they drop
the baseball bat.
And they're ready to
take you on a, with
their fists or feet
or whatever it is.
Do you now secure
the baseball bat?
You got to think,
well, that's a weapon
of opportunity, I'm
still subjected to
this person's attack.
That's a different thing.
And, and again, in
the moment you use
that effectively.
So everything really,
as you go through your
day-to-day life, you can
look around, everything's
a weapon of opportunity.
Your laptop is pretty
expensive, but it's
not worth your life.
That's right.
And it would probably
hurt pretty hard if I
folded it up and whacked
the person with it.
Or the corner of
the laptops straight
into the face, right.
You know, again, in that
triangle, around the
nose, you know, under
the, the, the septum,
you know, those types,
they, man, that stuff, it
hurts and it distracts,
it may not disable or
incapacitate, but it'll
give you a bit of space.
It's, you know,
people recoil from
those kinds of things
and it's unexpected.
Your pint glass.
Your pencil.
Your pencil, your
salt shaker rolled up
in a napkin, right,
at the dinner table.
But when you're walking
to your car, like
everybody's got automatic
unlock on their car.
So they got a fob.
So now we're, we're out
of luck, but the old, you
know, huge ring of keys
and, you know, I always,
you know, in the dark
carried my keys through
my fingers, you know.
Sure.
For a cheap pair of, of
a brass knuckles, but
you know, it's there.
Um, one of the things
always is, you watch
people when they're
getting into drunk fights
and they tend to start
pulling their shirt off.
So now there you are
in the bar having your
nice dinner and some
guys now taken offense
to you and you know,
you've, you've done what
you can to deescalate.
He's, he's drunk and
he's pushing at you.
And, and you're trying
to get out of there.
And of course now the
crowd comes around and
here's your weapon of
opportunity is when he
gets that shirt over
his head, that's it.
Jersey him.
Yeah.
Jersey him.
That's , happens every
day when you know, we're
watching pro hockey in
the old, well, I guess
more so in the old days,
but that something you
got to think about,
you've got to have it
in there and use it.
Who cares?
There's no rules.
There's nobody coming
running in with a black
and white shirt that's
going to say, wait, you
shouldn't have done that.
And if you're having
a hard time thinking,
hold on, am I in
condition orange, or
am I in condition red?
What you just pointed
out there is a very
common indicator and
there's lots of them,
that the fight is on.
You might not be aware
of the fights on,
but if someone starts
taking off articles of
clothing, it's a very,
very common precursor
to wanting to fight.
Time to fight.
Right.
Or maybe they keep
looking at, you have a
pint glass in your hand,
you're holding it and
they keep looking at it
and they're looking at it
because they view that as
a possible weapon that'll
you be used against
them when the fights on.
What they're looking
at, how their
body position is.
Again, like I say,
Allan Pease has got
some good books on
basic body language.
But they're clenched jaw,
clenched fists, uh, how
they're looking at you,
all of these things,
you don't even have to
rationally be able to
articulate, well I read
this book, or I heard
about it on a podcast.
I I'm willing to
bet, you know.
And you will know when
it's happening, if you
just trust your gut.
Right.
Yeah.
Doesn't lie the hair
on the back of your
neck, not lying.
Right.
You know, that's,
that's, that's
telling you the truth.
Don't ignore it.
Never, ever exhort, you
know, and I guess we kind
of talked about it, but
you know, the difference
between men and women
and what feelings they
have, but if you feel
it, it's probably real.
Right.
Well, it is real.
It is real and it's real
to you .And whether or
not history will look
back and look at it as
the real event, as long
as you have downloaded
the proper responses, you
can square yourself with
it, hopefully afterwards.
And that was one of
the things that you
brought up before.
And then we talked about
you're number one, you
protect yourself because
if you can't protect
yourself, you can't
protect your family,
your friends, your
loved ones around you.
And you go in that
process, how you do
that is going to have
to be something that
you can feel good about
afterwards, because
all of this mental
preparation and the
during preparation
will lead into the
next podcast as well.
Right.
And you know,
it's just funny.
Um, An unconscious
sheepdog doesn't help any
of the sheep, you know,
and if the sheep happened
to be your family, I
like that, you know,
we got to go stay with,
and you gotta remember
that, uh, the wolves are
looking for easy prey.
Right.
And you don't see the
wolves going after
that you know, the
Akbash herd dog out
there in amongst, we
don't have to be sheep.
We could actually
have alpacas or
something like that.
But, you know, whatever
the herd of domestic,
you know, critters are
there is that, that sharp
set of ears, you know,
that look of alertness
and the wolf is not
going for that sheepdog.
And, you know, it's,
it's, it's fascinating
to, uh, you know, to,
to really put yourself
into that position.
I mean, I'm going to
just, you know, talk
a little bit about
being in things.
Um, I've had, you
could say the, the good
fortune for being able
to talk about it now,
but the misfortune of it
happening in the moment.
Um, literally, uh, to
full-scale urban riots
and being on the pointy
end of the stick for
those, well the first
one most especially,
back, you know, when,
uh, you know, we always
called a game, anyways,
we won't talk about that
because that'll be wrong.
But, um, watching
things happen literally
in slow motion.
Literally.
And they aren't, they're
happening in real time,
but you are in such an
elevated state through,
you know, the adrenaline
dump and everything else.
You go into this hyper,
um, observant state where
things seem to slow down.
You're looking, you
know, with, with visual
narrowing, you're looking
into a tube, all the
other things around you
really aren't important,
but seeing that person
that's throwing a
bottle directly at you,
throwing a brick at you,
sometimes that tunnel
vision changes, and you
can see, you know, with
stuff going towards your,
your, your teammates
at the moment and, and
seeing that's strange.
In the middle of a
full-blown riot, the
one thing that will
take you away from your
normal day to day is the
sheer amount of noise,
explosions of the gas
grenades going off, the
yelling, the screaming,
the breaking of glass.
Uh, the sound, fire
is very quiet funny
enough, but you can
hear fire, you can
hear the crackling
of stuff burning, but
it's not very loud.
So in amongst all of
these incredibly loud
things, you're hearing
the subtleties, you
hear the sound of,
you know, um, a bottle
being broken, which
is not in itself very
loud, but then you, you
know, you're turning
yourself, uh, to those,
those unusual sounds.
Voices, hearing people
in the crowd actually
discussing what they're
about to do to somebody
in the riot squad that
we are with, we call
them, uh, you know, all
sorts of nice things,
that was a riot squad in
the, in the, you know,
um, public order unit.
Like they're actually
talking about that
and you can, your
auditory exclusion
takes you into their
conversation and that's
happening 10, 15 feet
away amongst the den.
I recall listening to the
boss on a cell phone, in
the middle of the riot,
we're holding the line.
He's probably standing
15, 20 feet away from me.
And he's talking to,
you know, the commander
in the, in the, in
the center, you know,
who's making all the
direction and I can
hear their conversation.
I can hear the voice
on the cell phone, not
just him talking, just
thinking, you know,
taking myself back.
Thinking this is,
you know, not really
pay attention into
the moment, but
afterwards, to be
able to articulate the
words that were there.
And, and until it
happens to you, you
can't believe it.
And for somebody
who's never been in
that before, that's
gotta be disorienting.
So to have a little bit
of an idea of what to
possibly expect in these
situations can give a
little bit of comfort.
And, and that's why
you got to listen to
somebody who's been
there when they say the
stuff's going to happen.
Don't freak out.
Don't freak out.
It's good, it's your body
uh, you know, getting
you ready for that.
You know, this is how
many million years of
evolution, you know, has
changed so many things
in the way we live,
but that primal ability
of fight or flight.
And we keep emphasizing,
it's all about flight.
All these physical
occurrences that are
happening and their
real, they are real, are
there to help you get
out of the situation.
One of the things you
may not necessarily feel,
uh, in the moment is the
adrenaline is now pumping
you full of strength that
you never had before.
And that's good.
You'll be able to run
faster, jump higher,
swim longer, punch
harder, all these things,
but they will happen.
Shockingly is when
you, you know, hey,
the critical incident
you look over and
there's a kid trapped
underneath of a car.
There's just
been a collision.
And that car's on top
of a kid and everybody's
pulling the kid and
they can't get them out.
And suddenly somebody
emerges from the crowd
and they lift the
car up for everybody
else to pull through.
And we hear that all
the time, 80 year old
woman lifts car off,
you know, husband in
garage when jack fails.
This type of stuff, but
people get the benefit of
however many years that
we've had this as, uh, an
instinctual response, you
know, the adrenaline dump
and all the other things.
And don't be afraid,
use them, use
them effectively.
So we talked about
the one plus one
rule, the rule of one
plus one before, if
there's one bad guy,
there's probably two.
If there's one person
talking to you on the
street that you don't
know, there might be
a reason why, there
might be a second person
they're working with.
But in a fight, don't
think that this is
just the one aggressor.
You could have an
innocent person who's
just happened to be
walking by passively
acquiescing, minding
their own business, and
they see this fight and
progress, and they look
at you as the aggressor
and all of a sudden
now it's you against
more than one person.
And I don't care how
many Steven Seagal movies
a person has watched.
When you start having
a physical altercation
with more than one
individual, it gets
tough really quick.
We're now in code
red, maybe we're with,
uh, our spouse, our
kids, or someone else.
Now that person
needs to be your
ally in that moment.
If you're in that
confrontation and you're
down on the ground
and you say somebody
else comes along.
Now there's wolves
that are just going to
come along and they see
something happening and
their pack mentality
forces them to just
start kicking the
people that are on the
ground and see that
lots, lots, and lots.
People are totally
un-involved in whatever,
you know, sparked the
incidents, but they'll
come out of the crowd
because they always,
you know, wanting to
kick somebody, you know,
cause they've seen it
on TV and that stuff.
So yes, you gotta be
wary of that, but you
know, your, your backup
may not be in the form
of a physical backup,
but again, clarifying
to the crowd, help
him, help him, help
the guy in the red
shirt, he got attacked
by the other guy.
Right.
Or something
to that effect.
Everybody needs to
know they got to
all work together.
It's no good if they
go into that lockup
phase and just stand
and stare at you get in
getting it, you know,
so to speak, everybody's
gotta be together.
And that was always
a big part of the
self-defense system that
I would teach my kids.
The big one is
you're not my mom,
you're not my dad.
Right.
If someone's trying to
hurt them or take them or
do something, make it be
known to everybody else
around what's going on.
But as well, they're not
in a position to be able
to physically help in the
way that I'm sure they
would want to, but they
can sure use their voices
to be able to help.
And having that game
plan ahead of time
with your family or
with your friends.
That's a very
important conversation.
Yeah.
That, that plan that
you've had with your
kids saying the only
people that will ever
come and pick you up from
school will be somebody
that you've met before.
And even saying that
as a problem, because
we know that it could.
Statistically.
You know, but you got
to start with that and
you say, is it okay if
grandpa picks you up?
Yes.
Is it okay if grandma,
uncle Joe, you know, and
we are trusting uncle
Joe, mom, dad, sister,
brother, whatever, if
it's not one of those
people, you don't go.
The only people
that you would go
with are the police.
And again, making
the kids understand.
Now we're kind of going
off into the stranger
danger thing, you know,
suddenly it's not one
of those people that
you've preauthorized.
The kid needs to
start letting it out.
You're not physically
capable, but you've got
a voice and use it and
don't go and don't go and
don't go, no matter what.
There's no such thing
as a, as a person that
wants you to help them
find something, you know,
the classic, you know,
I'm here looking for my
dog, can you help me?
You know, or, or
any of those, kids
are just nice.
You know, they've been
properly, brought up.
Kid can still be polite
and start screaming his
head off a second later.
So fights on, we know
absolute aggression.
You think of Malone
from the untouchables.
What did he say?
He says, uh, see
if I can do it.
If he pulls a knife,
you pull a gun.
If he sends one of yours
to the hospital, you send
one of his to the morgue.
Yeah.
Something like that.
But, but essentially
what you don't want
to do is someone's
attacking with force,
you meet that force.
You have to go one.
Overcome the force.
One step up and keep
that force until the
thread has stopped.
Um, do we want to talk
about Jared's story?
Well, just, uh, you
know, and I, I'm just
going to take us back
here again, though.
We keep talking about
the use of force at
this point, but let's
talk about, we had
the escape option.
We don't run so far
and then turn around
and try and start
taking pictures of it
or turn back to look
to see what we'd done.
We run so we know that
we are in a position
of true safety,
like secure behind
something that's not
penetrable or whatever
we're in our car.
Somebody wants to
get into our car.
There's no reason in
the world for somebody
to come out of the
blue and start pulling
on your door handle
that's going to be good.
Now, if it's clearly
evident that that's
somebody who's going to
be a victim themselves,
can you get them in and
get them out of there?
Without the suspect
or the, you know, the,
the attacker getting
in with them, you know,
that's a consideration.
So your emotion is
one thing, oh, I want
to help this person.
But the reality, there's
not going to be better
if I drive my car away
a little bit and get
on the phone and come
back with, you know,
the ability to deal
with it on your terms.
And that just comes
down to, from teaching
a survival mindset.
There is only one
person and that's you.
Yeah.
That's not always going
to be the right thing
with yourself afterwards.
And people have
such a difficult
time accepting that.
And, and, you know,
they say, oh, that's
like, you know, this
is the degradation of
human society if that's
all you're thinking of.
And, and that's what
we become that we're
telling people to
abandon everybody else.
But again, if you
can't continue on.
I remember in my early
twenties, when I got
a license to carry in
the states your CCW and
few different states
of reciprocity and, uh,
Marty Hayes, Firearms
Academy in Seattle did
some training there with
him and did some basic
scenario training as a
part of the CCW course.
And one of the big things
that they really want
to get across is that
firearm is not there
for you to be a hero.
You're not a cop because
you have a firearm on,
you're not there to
help the cops cause
you have that firearm.
You're there, that
firearms air for one
reason only, and that's
to protect you and your
loved ones and that's it.
And you forget
all the rest.
And that was a really
difficult thing to think
about especially as a
young male testosterone,
wanting to help
people all the rest.
Really, when it comes
down to a survival
situation, you're there
to protect yourself,
cause you might not have
all of the information
required to make proper
decisions, to interject
yourself into the,
into some, some other
sort of situation.
And I remember that was
one of the scenarios.
A couple of people
arguing, someone
pulls a gun out
and what do you do?
Do you interject?
No, you take off, the guy
with the gun was actually
a cop undercover right?
And so when people start
making these judgment
calls of how, how
could you just do that?
Really, from a survival
situation, that is where
your head should be.
Yeah.
And that's true,
you know, you hear
repeatedly, oh, you
know, if there had been
somebody with a gun
there, probably would
have ended the whole
thing, but you know,
that, that's where
this, this idea having
an armed society and
all of the ability to
they, you know, to carry
a concealed firearm,
everybody has sort of a,
an armchair idea of how
this is going to work.
And it's not
that way at all.
It is that, it's that
deep down personal thing,
you know, it's just you
and the attacker in the
moment, yours is not to,
as a, as an armed citizen
to come in, until you
can clearly recognize it.
But the fact that you
come running down the
street, withdrawn gun,
might be the worst
thing in the world,
thinking that you're
going to end somebody
else's situation.
You have to read it.
When you're in your
own, different thing.
And the same goes
for people who carry
a utility knife or
who happened to have
dog spray on them, or
who've taken that napkin
and put salt shaker
in there and using.
Not a paper napkin.
It as a weapon.
Not a paper napkin.
Not a paper napkin,
but the same thing
applies to all of these.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and like I say, you
know, arming yourself
ahead of time, um, is
also arming the person
that attacks you.
You know, so if you
are going to, uh, put
a knife on your belt
or put a knife in your
pocket, you know that,
uh, in the moment,
if somebody gets your
knife, now you need to
recognize and fight that.
I think there's a
misconception, when
people think about
knives, they think,
oh yeah, I caught this
knife and I can use
it for self-defense.
You're going to kill
the person you stab,
you should probably
resign yourself to that.
If you use a knife
for self protection,
the likelihood of
doing serious grievous
bodily harm or death
is pretty high.
It doesn't take
much for a blade to
penetrate in order
to do serious damage.
And likewise, I don't
care how many movies
they've seen of disarming
a person with a knife
and you touch on this
before we used to do
it with felt markers.
Okay, let's try
disarm, guaranteed,
and that's just the
tip of the marker.
You're walking out
with ink on yourself.
You have to
resign yourself.
If somebody does have
an edged weapon, you
are going to get cut
and you're going to
have to be able to
fight through that.
Yes.
Again, you know,
completely eliminating
your emotions, your
ego at the time, if you
look down and you're
bleeding, means nothing.
You, you know, as long
as you, you still got
the energy to fight, you
got to keep fighting.
Cuts, don't
kill you fast.
Um, you know, and that's
kind of a fortunate
thing, unless somebody is
highly trained and knows,
you know, how to use the
proper link to blade in
the correct technique.
In most cases, you know,
we see a lot of, um,
stabbing, if you can get
always get lucky and hit
something, but you know,
it's be shocking and
it's a big help if you've
ever seen in an animal
that's being butchered,
how much space is in
and around some of the
organs and you know how
that, uh, doesn't become
an immediate way to go.
Okay.
But the big thing you
carry a weapon, you
know, a knife, you, uh,
you brought something to
the situation and, and,
and you bring a gun, you
brought something to the
situation, which you know
that your attacker may
not have had that before.
And if you're not, you
know, physically capable
of keeping that in your
possession, that's not
going to be a help.
So Jared, Range
Langley, 2017 he says.
And Jared, if I'm telling
the story and I get it
wrong, I'm sure you'll
let me know, but I
did take notes and I'm
going to try and get
the information across
cause I think, I think
you had some good points
here that the listeners
would appreciate.
He says, Travis, if
you think there would
be some value in the
listeners in this story
of hearing the situation
that I went through.
So background on Jared,
he'd say range officer
at The Range Langley,
he's accustomed to
being around firearms
and hearing gunshots.
He spent some time down
in LA, he says he's
heard gunshots in an
urban environment, kind
of knows what that's
about and he spent a
fair bit of time offering
like physical security
services for nightclubs
in the form of a bouncer.
And so he's, he's
got a, uh, uh, some
situational awareness
and physical conditioning
he's on a date.
I think it was 2017
browns social pub.
And in the evening, I
guess a waitress drops
a highball glass, hits
the ground flat makes
a big bang nose, every,
nose, big bang noise,
and everybody looks
around and yells OPA
and they clean it up.
And there we go.
Uh, later on in the
evening they hear a
similar bang and this
time it was a round going
through the glass and
followed up by some more
rounds going through
and immediately he.
And more people
yelling OPA.
Yeah, he did.
I don't think he said,
they said OPA at this
point, but the first
thing that came into
his head and I think
most other peoples there
was, Jared, I'm not
trying to speak on your
behalf, but I'm trying to
recollect what you say.
First thing that came
into his head was is
this another high ball
glass hitting the ground?
Because it's not normal
that you're going to
have gunshots coming
into the restaurant where
you're, you're eating in.
Well, by the second
round, people knew
what was going on
pretty quickly.
And he was under
the table with his
girlfriend and, or the
girl that he was on
a date with anyways.
And she was freaking out.
And apparently most
of his energy was
into, went into trying
to keep her calm.
Uh, he looked for exits
and he saw one and there
was one out by the patio,
problem was there was a
fellow doing backflips.
Cause I guess he had
been hit, right by
there trying to get
in and he yells out,
don't let him in.
They want him,
not us, right.
He says right or wrong,
whatever people judge
that right or wrong,
he says, but why do
we want to invite that
danger inside here?
He says, he looked and
he gets to see these
people, but they're
dressed all in black.
Uh, and that's about the
most he got out of it.
He says the adrenal fog
kicked in, the adrenal
dump right off the bat.
But then the adrenal
fog, trying to, uh, think
things through, I, I
guess the, let me just
take a look, make sure
I'm not missing anything.
Here are the notes.
So his exit was blocked.
He says afterwards, if
I was really thinking
about it, places have
more than one exit.
I could have gone through
the kitchen and no one
going to think twice
about someone going
through a kitchen in
this sort of a situation.
He says afterwards, I
kind of wish I spoke
with other people
that were around me.
Like, hey, do you
know what's going on?
Hey, do you have a plan?
Sort of like
coordinate the other
people in there.
He says he didn't do
that, but this is a
benefit of hindsight.
Uh, he says he had to
stick around for about
four hours while the
police came in and they
took some statements
about what happened.
And they were
asking, what are the
people look like?
He says, I don't know,
it was all in black.
It's all I saw, but it
sounded like there was a
semi-auto and a revolver.
And it sounded like this
many shots were fired
because of his background
of working in the
range, that's where his
mind immediately went.
And those are things
though, that, as
we talked about
beforehand, is what
has been downloaded
to your subconscious.
So that's there.
That, that ability
to recognize those
things, is there.
Back to you, sorry.
Mhmm.
He, and part of this
will go into the after
as well, uh, which
we can we'll delve in
further, but he says, uh,
everybody wants to hear
the story afterwards.
Everybody wants to talk
about it afterwards.
And there was
anger involved.
He was angry at the laws
that he couldn't carry
a firearm or angry at
the body armor laws, or
that he couldn't protect
himself in a way that he
figured that he should.
Um, and these are
all things that a
person would have
to square themselves
with, for the after.
And we'll talk about that
in greater detail, but
it was an interesting
story and I didn't do it
justice, Jared, I know
because we spoke for some
time on this one and he
had a lot more details.
But his survival
mindset was right.
Uh, afterwards squaring
yourself with, I
guess, one of the,
uh, uh, women in the
patio opened the door
and allow this person
to come in bleeding
all over the place.
I believe that was
the individual ended
up, uh, passing.
Um, yes, survival
mindset was right.
But I think afterwards,
some people might have
a hard time with that
too, like, me over them.
Well, yeah.
And that's the part,
again, that we keep
going back to is, you
know, it's you, and
afterwards you can
imagine that other people
say, you know, there
was some guy yelling,
don't let him in.
Can you believe
that, that's the
degradation of society.
We're all finished as
a, as a human race,
but you know what,
unfortunately, it's the
right thing to do in
those kind of moments.
That person is not your
kin, that person is not,
you know, in your team,
I'm talking, you know,
if it was a battlefield
situation and that was
a member of your squad,
a hundred percent he's
coming in and we're
going to fight out
there and fight that guy
back in, because that's
what we're there to do.
This is you went
out for dinner on a
date, that's not what
you're there to do.
There is the sheepdog
that's going to do it.
And you know, like
he said, the woman
that, that let him
in, that's, her inner
sheepdog came out.
She just couldn't,
couldn't get beyond
not helping a fellow
human being and
that's, that's great.
But did you know, she,
how much risk did she put
herself at doing that?
That that's the part
that we don't know, and
we can armchair forever.
People love to armchair,
but I'm just, you
know, that that's
the way it goes.
You know, it's funny, you
know, just based solely
on what you said um,
he talks about looking
up and seeing the exit.
That's you know,
sometimes could be
talked about as a bit
of tunnel vision because
the activity is there and
within the activity of
what you're looking at
is the red exit signs.
So back in the
subconscious exit, but
in the upfront, in the
cognitive level, not a
good choice because that
is also the danger area.
That's the, you
know, we could use
the term, killzone.
I got a good story
for afterwards, which
actually takes us back
to this, but we'll, we'll
save that, you know,
uh, going ahead, but
you're, you're right.
It's it is, you
know, restaurants.
Hey, you know, we
just heard here in the
province of British
Columbia, if it depends
on where you're living
from, we're going to
have our opening today
is going to be announced
at one o'clock and
you know, going into
a restaurant or a bar,
um, it's, you know, you
can, how many years my
wife and I have been
together, she understands
that she doesn't even
try to sit anywhere that
allows me to not keep my
back away from the door.
Um, and it's just,
I've done it all my
pretty much adult life.
I can't comfortably
sit with my back to the
room unless I'm sitting
with somebody I trust.
And if I know that the
person that's sitting
with the eyes on the
room, I'm good with that.
But if I'm there with
anybody else, any non,
um, known entity, I just
can't get comfortable.
And, and that's just
something I always do.
And I sit down and I
look, and I see as I'm
ordering, where's the
in, where's the out.
Just happens and
it's not a hard way
to live your life.
It really isn't.
It's not, it's not,
it's not overbearing,
but we going back to
what we talked about
already, but it's there
because in the moment
grab a hand, run through
the kitchen, just like
Jared said, and it would
have been over for him.
It would have been over.
So there's other
things that could be
done in the moment in
something like that.
Which may or may not
be useful for this
situation, but we talked
about the mental prep
before of being able to
identify a person, look
at their skin color, look
at their height, look at
their gender, look at any
distinguishing marks that
they have, that would
be difficult to change.
Same with vehicle,
even though we all
know in these sorts of
situations, like Jared's
talking about there's
stolen vehicles that
get torched an hour
later, but direction
of travel, which way
were they heading?
Because when they're
under the table,
they called 911 as
I'm sure everybody
else was as well.
Uh, the more information
that they can gather in
the during, the better
off, they will be in
the afterwards as well.
And the more they can
articulate and user
tactical communication,
their, their voice and
the during in a way
that that's properly
pre-programmed, that they
they're saying the right
words in the right way.
Hey, drop that weapon.
Everyone looks, they
look at the person you're
talking to and they
assume that person's
got a weapon right?
Whoops.
They made a mistake,
they didn't have a
weapon, they're just
being aggressive, but
they still got that
information out there.
If they downloaded that
information to their
head and they used in
that situation, that
could be a useful thing
in the after as well.
Um.
Yeah, that's right.
I mean, well, we still
talking about the moment
your code red, it's real
it's happening, but you
may not be the focus
of whatever the, you
know, the, the energies
of the attacker is.
But you're still feeling,
you know, all of the
other things that come
on when, when it's
real and going down.
And trying to keep
yourself, um, focused
on the thing to be of
some value later is
some consideration.
I just, you know, there's
something keeps playing
in my head when gunfire
happens, particularly a
handgun, based on four or
five rounds, I've trained
people to fire over
the years at the range.
What people tend to do,
is if they're untrained
with a firearm, is send
rounds to the ground.
Mhmm.
And that in, you know,
just some consideration,
if you're going to lay
flat or stretched across
towards somebody that's
out there can put you
in a, a bit of risk at,
you know, ricocheted
rounds that, that go low.
So, I mean, if you're
far enough away, it's
probably not a bad
choice, but stay in
skinny and tall and
trying to get behind
something, because again,
that's a more difficult
target, particularly
at distance, you
know, all concerned.
It just kind of
popped into my
head in the moment.
That, those would be
some of the things,
you know, based on my,
you know, makeup of
experiences might be.
So I would, I would
consider distances,
you know, I know how
far people can shoot,
when they can hit.
I keep looking at the
way people would shoot
in those situations
and whether it's aimed
fire or just, you know,
point and squeeze or
point and jerk trigger.
It's mostly point and
click that I seen.
That's it.
And that can be darn
effective at a darn
effective at, at the
shorter ranges and we can
see that clearly, right.
Um, but you know, some,
some things, you know.
If the person comes in
swinging a knife, don't
get down, get around
something, get, you
know, get physically,
get the bar between
you and that person,
get tables between you.
But if you, if you lay
down, you've lost your
reactionary time, right.
Cause now, you've
got to get up to
move away from them.
Um.
You know, when you talk
about rounds hitting the
ground and the ricochet,
I remember as a kid,
uh, my father would set
up different shotgun
shells, green ones,
red ones, blue ones, 12
gauge, 20 gauge, .410,
and they'd all be on the
ground at different areas
and call out a color.
Red, okay.
Got to bring it
out and try a point
shooting or body index
shooting or instinctive
shooting, right.
And get the gun out
without using the sights.
Squeeze the trigger,
shoot the shotgun,
the casing, shotgun
shell on the ground.
And it didn't take
me long to realize
I, as long as my
left and right, my
windage was good.
Uh, my elevation could
be dead on or pretty much
anywhere in front of it
cause I could skip the
round into that shell.
And so I could speed
things up quite quickly.
Maybe I didn't quite
get a dead on, but
I was in front of
it and skipped in.
So the same thinking
applies to walls.
That's right.
Yeah.
The spall coming
off of, you know.
Spall and walls.
Like
if you're going to hug
a wall going down and
there's gunfire, you just
got to shoot anywhere
at you or in front
of you on that wall.
And you're probably going
to be catching a round.
Yeah.
It is something to really
consider, you know,
people lay down under
a car, but a shot fired
under the car can also
spall off the asphalt or
concrete that's there.
So getting behind a car
means, you know, getting
behind the wheel, you
know that, so you've
got that protection of
the tire, physically
on the ground,and
the rim, you know, to
stop any spall or, or
indeed any projectiles
going to need.
Those are the things,
can you analyze that
quickly in the moment?
No, but if you've
thought about it before,
these are the things,
this is the plan.
This is the plan
that you made.
We're talking code
red, we're talking
execution of the plan.
Uh, some other things to
consider is, you know, if
whatever you're doing is
not working in code red,
like this is not making
things better for me.
Oh.
Pivot and adapt.
Right.
Have you have you,
in the planning stage
before any of this
happened, come up with,
you know, a scenario in
your mind, I'm punching
somebody I'm, I'm doing
the attack that I'd
always thought I would
do in this situation,
it's not working, so
what's the secondary?
Those judo chops that I
was practicing so much,
man, they just didn't
work quite as good.
Yeah.
And you know, the, and
the, the, the compliant
partner I had in the gym
who would lay down and
scream, you know, this,
person's not doing that.
So it's always, you
know, plan a, the
simplest plan b uh,
when a isn't working.
And boy, if it's plan
c, this has gotta be a
really effective thing.
Uh, but it's, it's gonna
be, you know, almost at
the point where getting
distance becomes the most
important to regroup.
I just, one of the most
incredible conversations
I ever had, um, the
RCMP years ago, fully
embraced the Gregg method
of instinctive shooting.
Um, and some of the
older RCMP members
that I know that can
tell you about this.
And, and Gregg had
developed is the,
what was his last name
two G's, a system of
sightless shooting.
Right.
And when he trained
you initially, you
would use 22 rifles
that had no sights
on them, and you were
actually holding them
clearly out of the aim.
And by gosh, you could
hit an amazing amount
of stuff as you trained
in the Gregg method of
sightless shooting and
without getting into it
too much, it was adopted
in the RCMP training and
they referred to it as
instinctive shooting.
Right.
And it's a word that
absolute or a phrase
that absolutely curdles
my urine when I heal
or hear people use it.
But I'll just tell you,
this is how, if you
think you have a plan
and you're trained with
a plan and you're in
code red, what to do.
So this RCMP officer,
um, long story short,
a robbery occurs.
He sees the robbery
suspect, he's in
the police vehicle.
He stops the individual
who immediately
exits his vehicle.
He draws his six shot
revolver and from the
Gregg method of, and he's
basically shooting well
below his line of sight.
He's seeing.
Cause that's
how he taught.
That was the
Gregg method.
How they're taught.
And it was the sort
of a triangle press
out from your body.
And your eyes are up here
and the guns down there.
And he's shooting at
the bad guy who in turn
is one arm extents and
shooting back at him.
And they start aroundy
round the police car and
aroundy rounds happening
and they're, both of
them are shooting.
He fires his six
rounds, he recognizes
that he's unloaded.
He accesses his
speed loader, reloads
fabulously, he's got six
fresh rounds ready to go.
And he says he couldn't,
he doesn't even recall
the reload it went
so smoothly, you
know, clean ejection
of the spent cases.
And he starts
firing that method.
And he goes through
his full 18 rounds,
the six in the gun, the
12 off his belt, bad
guy goes through the
magazine that he had in
a semiautomatic pistol.
And now it's one of those
dead silence because
there's no more gunfire.
Nobody's got ammo.
Neither one of them
were hit in this
exchange that, you
know, in probably 10
plus rounds fired on
the part of the bad guy
from his semiautomatic
pistol, 18 rounds fired
from the revolver.
And I said to him, you
know, when I got the
opportunity to speak
to him, I said, well,
why didn't you just
put the sights on him?
No one ever talked
about using that.
It was never something
that was offered up as
a solution to the bad
guy, not falling down.
You will respond exactly
as you've trained.
Correct.
To your lowest level
of training that you've
been able to perfect,
is where you'll respond.
And Peter principle can
also come into place.
Correct.
And I will tell you, or,
from every single person
that I have trained in
uniform, that the most
important thing is to
learn to use your sights.
Everything else is just
frosting on the cake.
If you need in
that last moment to
use your firearm.
So anyways, not that
I'm advocating anybody
use a firearm, but that
is the understanding.
When you come up
with a technique,
the first thing that
you practice is the
full-proof side of it.
Right.
And then everything
else goes to support it.
So.
Hick's law, not Peter
principle Hicks laws.
What I was thinking
of and Hick's law
essentially says that
the more options that
you have in your head,
the more likely you
are to dither between
choosing one of them in
a stressful situation.
So if you have that
one option, which is,
we use a sights or my
one option that I've
really downloaded.
If I have to fight,
I fight hard and I
fight aggressively.
I'm not afraid
to be dirty and
use hair or eyes.
Um, that can really play
to your benefit when that
adrenal fog kicks in.
Correct.
And, oh, let's talk about
what happens if you've
planned, it's code red
and suddenly you find
yourself completely
unable to fight
without emotion or ego.
And all of a sudden,
your feet are stuck
to the ground and you
realize, wow, all I'm
doing is breathing
at, you know, any
highly, um, accelerated
rate of respiration.
You know, there's horns
honking in my ears.
The lights are flashing
and everything else.
Get out of that, that
should be another plan.
And that's that, you
know, um, autogenic
breathing, just blow
your lungs clear.
Well, your lungs clear,
empty your lungs,
shake your head just a
little bit, slap your
hands on your thighs.
Just get, get
some, you know,
physical stimulation
there, back in.
Now, you know, those
things that maybe
break in that, that fog
that's occurred that,
and you use the word
mental fibrillation
or tactical dithering.
You know, those, those
are the things that
can potentially happen.
And unfortunately I have
seen that effect occur
in others, in some very
tough situations that
I've had the fortune,
good fortune to be a
part of, so I can talk
about it later, the
misfortune to be in some
pretty, you know, tough
scrapes in the moment.
But you can watch others
and yeah, and it's, it's
a thing to, to take that
with you as well, but how
do you break out of that?
Autogenic breathing
just absolute complete
emptying of your lungs
takes, you know, all
of a sudden your, your
whole physical being is
now coming back online.
It's almost like
a restart and that
could be a huge help.
Um, again, slapping your
hands and your thighs,
give your head a little
shake, you know, that,
that pinching, some
of those things can
just bring . You back.
Interesting.
No guarantees, but
you know, having
something, uh, to, to
work with on that case.
That's, that's a good
point, little, little
physical tips that
people can do to kind of
break that psychological
block that they're in.
When two things that
I've used in the
past, if you're in a
stressful situation, a
box breathing where you
three seconds in, hold
it for three seconds,
three seconds out, hold
it for three seconds,
three seconds in, and
just keep repeating that.
And that's one
way to help calm
yourself in a suit.
And I mean, even in
mountaineering or rock
climbing, and I know
you've done a fair bit
of that, there's been
situations where you.
That was a long time ago.
Where you've, I know
there's been situations
where I've found myself
in areas where I'm over
my head and you have,
that, you can't stop, you
can't move back and you
have to press forward.
And one of the things
that I just do, I can,
I can, I can, just
some sort of a mantra
that goes through your
head and you just do
it and you can achieve
some otherwise maybe
seemingly superhuman
type things or what other
people would sit back
and say, how the hell
does that person do it?
It's because you're
a very singular in
your purpose and
what you're doing.
And you keep repeating
that to yourself as you
work your way through.
Yeah.
And I've always, uh,
well, mine is, you
know, get on it, get
on it, get on it,
get on it, get on it.
And that's the thing that
yells in, in, you know.
Brian, what's your Brian,
Brian Calgary police
retired now, but he talks
about the wind principle.
Mm.
And what's important
now, and I'm not going
to steal his thunder and
we'll get his name here
for the next podcast.
And you should listen
to him talk and he
continually repeats
the mantra, WIN,
what's important now.
Okay.
So now I've put myself
in a better position.
I've got distance
from the subject,
what's important now?
Do I continue
to move away?
Do I now have to
rescue somebody else,
what's important now?
And it evolves,
it evolves because
you're now taking
successional steps,
you've done something,
what's important now.
And of course, then
in the end you win.
That's a, uh, an
adaption of your
OODA loop, observe,
orient, decide and act.
Correct.
And everybody's got their
thing, I guess, last
name's going to come.
We'll we'll have it
for your everybody
here uh, shortly.
Okay.
Do we want to talk
about anything else
in the during, or do
we want to save the
rest for the after?
I think, uh, get
rid of your ego, get
rid of your emotion.
Your purpose is singular
it's to make whatever
is that high degree of
stress, right there, an
attack or imminent attack
or an imminent threat to
your life or wellbeing
stop or get away from it.
And, and to do it, you
know, as efficiently
as your physicality,
uh, your training or
your experience will
allow you to do it.
And that's, that's
the thing, get rid
of the emotion.
Really.
Don't be afraid.
Uh, not don't be
afraid, you're going
to be afraid, take your
fear and turn it into
righteous indignation.
That's an important thing
for people to understand.
Everybody gets scared.
Totally.
Sure.
It's normal.
You should be scared
in that situation, but
take from that fear, the
strength and just the
words are how dare, how
dare you do this to me?
How dare you do
this to that person?
How, how dare you
change my life right
now by doing this thing.
And that will give
you the, you know, the
ability to continue on.
But, um, no, I
distracted myself
from the fear side.
Uh, it'll come back.
Okay.
Okay, Paul, let's
wrap this one up.
If the listeners have
anything that they
would like to add,
well, they might have a
difficult time on this
because we're going to
be recording our after
right, right now, but
we can definitely post
it up on social media.
For sure.
And if the demand is
there, I'm happy to make
a synopsis of all of
these things and put it
up into blog posts for
people to be able to have
some downloadable assets.
Absolutely.
Thank you very much Paul.