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Ashley Whalen
A piece of advice that I got from another founder that really struck with me was just that the concept of pressure is a privilege. And the mentality around, like I even mentioned as an example, when something goes wrong, you can either look at it as a negative or it's stressful. But when you started seeing that as, wow, you're, that's an opportunity for growth and now it's pushing you to make the next step in your business, I really think that's the only way businesses grow. And once you can kind of understand that's how it operates, you can use it as a tool rather than, I guess, you know, a weakness or something that can really knock you down.
00:46
Caitlin Bricker
Hey, everybody, this is Caitlin Bricker, managing editor at Startup CPG. We are back with another founder feature. Today I'm sitting down with Ashley Whalen, founder of Chara, a Greek frozen yogurt brand that's bringing Froyo back, but making it way better. Low calorie, high protein, naturally sweetened with maple and agave and packed with certified living probiotics. I'm not seeing that on shelf anywhere else. Ashley started this brand in her college apartment with seven roommates, launched less than a year ago and is already making waves with a vintage Volkswagen Froyo bus doing pop ups across SoCal. She's also talking about landing her first retail chain at Lunds and Byerly's.
01:27
Caitlin Bricker
We're diving into how she's differentiating herself in the crowded protein frozen dessert space, why she chose stripes for her branding, the power of building in public as a young founder and her strategy for scaling from pop ups to nationwide retail. Plus, she shares why pressure is a privilege and how that mindset shift changed everything. As always, enjoy. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Startup CPG podcast. This is Kaitlin and today I'm here with Ashley Whalen, founder of Chara. Ashley, welcome to the show.
02:01
Ashley Whalen
Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here and chat with you.
02:04
Caitlin Bricker
It's perfect timing to have you here because the warmer months are coming in all around the US People need Chara in their hands, so trust me, I'm feeling it too.
02:14
Ashley Whalen
Yeah. Oh my God.
02:15
Caitlin Bricker
I we're at the Shelfies retreat right now for anybody that's tuning in on Instagram and all the places and I wish I had some Chara here next year.
02:24
Ashley Whalen
Hey, we might be able to arrange a hand drop off I to add on to your 600 different foods. You're trying right now, but maybe a little dessert for after.
02:33
Caitlin Bricker
It's been a Trip? Yeah, just a little something top everything off at the end.
02:37
Ashley Whalen
Yeah, why not? It doesn't hurt at the end of the day.
02:41
Caitlin Bricker
Well, before we dive into this conversation, can you just tell everybody what chara is?
02:46
Ashley Whalen
Yes. So chara is a Greek frozen yogurt. We're basically bringing froyo back, but making it better. So we have four flavors, but it takes all the benefits of Greek yogurt, which is our base, and we use it to make the product low calorie, high protein, naturally sweetened with maple and agave. It also has certified living probiotics inside for gut health. And it's lactose free, so there's a little bit something in it for everyone.
03:09
Caitlin Bricker
Beautiful. And what's your background? Like, how did you get into making chara? Was this a direct path for you, or did this. Was this just a. A happy route that you decided to take?
03:20
Ashley Whalen
A happy accident? Honestly, like, people ask me if there's a background. There is no background. Like, this is fully, you know, from the imagination. It honestly, it started in my college apartment, and I had about seven roommates, and every night we would just make dessert bowls and we would take Greek yogurt. I don't know if you've done this, but the chocolate chips, the Captain Crunch, strawberries, we put everything on it. And I was just sitting around looking at everybody making this, and I'm like, why is there not a product for this? I mean, if there was, we would be the first consumers to hear about it and go after and buy it. But the fact that it hadn't reached us to me felt like an opportunity. So I spent about a year recipe developing and did that in my kitchen of the college apartment.
04:00
Ashley Whalen
So took up a lot of space, but sure, it was worth it. And that's kind of just how I got into it. It was a lot of research, a lot of just testing with people on college campuses. That helped me really get a lot of feedback quickly. So that was a pro. And then launched the company from there.
04:14
Caitlin Bricker
And. And how long have you been in business for?
04:17
Ashley Whalen
So the rest of the development took a while. So it makes, like, numbers a little iffy of how long we've actually started, but technically we launched the business in July, so a little bit less than a year.
04:27
Caitlin Bricker
Wow.
04:27
Ashley Whalen
Yeah.
04:28
Caitlin Bricker
And you've done so much since then. We met at Nootopia now 2025. Last summer you did Alley Rally at Expo West. That's March 2026. Tell me about your experiences at both Nootopia now and Alley Rally.
04:42
Ashley Whalen
Well, I do have to say a shout out to the startup CBG team. I love you guys, you're so much fun. But also just such a great opportunity for all these brands to come together. I mean, I would have never done a trade show if I didn't either hear about it through you guys or join your guys section. It's just so much easier. It reduces the barrier to entry so much, especially as a young founder who doesn't really have the connections in the industry. So kudos to you guys, but I love the experience. I think every brand should do at least one trade show if they're kind of taking off, you learn one so much. I mean, I left with an entire folder of business cards and different connections and people who want to talk and hopefully advise to get on the business.
05:22
Ashley Whalen
I just, I think it's invaluable. But also just getting that trial and getting to see people who have probably tasted a million froyos ice creams in their life coming by your booth and saying this is good, this is bad, or this is what I would look for. It expedites the process just so much, so highly recommend.
05:38
Caitlin Bricker
We love to hear that. And I will say my first introduction to you was Nootopia, now 2025 last summer. And you might remember this, I will never forget it, but our whole team was around your booth and then you dropped off pints over to our booth. We were like vultures standing over it, all of us just like eating a community pint of chara and then moving on to the next one. And they disappeared so quickly.
06:05
Ashley Whalen
Well, no one talks about the black market behind a trade show of the product swaps that go on. I mean, I brought my friend who helped me and she left the trade show with like, not palettes, but like the cases that go on pallets of different products that like, she was making trades with that I didn't know she was volunteering our product, but guess she was. So, I mean, you end up with so many different products that you have to take home, but I'm glad that you guys were able to enjoy it.
06:31
Caitlin Bricker
So maybe she could have done some secret shopping too, because that show in particular had quite a few protein frozen desserts, whether it be ice cream, cottage cheese, froyo. How do you feel like you are stacking up and differentiating yourself from the other protein frozen desserts on the market?
06:51
Ashley Whalen
That's a great question because I actually was recently asked this and no, but it makes you think a lot about just where you fit within. I guess your case right here One, I just think that the way we've marketed the brand is so different to a lot of the, I guess, like protein ice creams. Because when you hear that, you think of kettlebells and you think of, you know, muscles, and honestly, you think of, like a manly product. And I think the way that we've been able to differentiate ourselves is just appealing to someone like myself who might be interested in nutrition, wellness, protein, hitting your protein goals. But that's just not the archetype that they're not targeting the right person for me.
07:28
Ashley Whalen
So by creating a brand that's joyful and nostalgic, but happens to have all of the things that I search for and need, that it's decentralizing the narrative of protein and more so of just treating yourself well. And I think targeting the consumer of myself is its own feat that I think differentiates ourselves from other protein ice cream brands, I guess.
07:49
Caitlin Bricker
I think you're hitting the nail on the head with that one. And I think you're also differentiating yourself, if you don't mind me saying, with the sweeteners, because you're not using artificial sweeteners, which I think is a total game changer. There's a time and a place for the artificial sweeteners, but I feel like the protein frozen desserts are filled with them. Maybe I'm not seeing the brands that I should be seeing, but that's an observation that I've made. So I really appreciate that you're using maple and agave in your formulas.
08:21
Ashley Whalen
Yeah, we're the only product that does use maple and agave as our sweeteners. And I honestly, this was just a personal thing when I was recipe developing, but if you're in this industry, you kind of get a keen sense of different things. And for me, like, the taste of allulose, stevia, erythritol, all of the sweeteners, and no shame to anyone who uses them. But it, like, stuck in the back of my throat. And now to this day, I won't have anything with them because it just. I don't know, it's a weird taste to me. And now, just through trial, I've realized how what a great decision that was. Because people are genuinely just looking for a natural sweetener in their diet. They're trying to simplify their ingredients, not overcomplicate.
08:58
Caitlin Bricker
So totally. And unfortunately, I have to agree with you on those sweeteners, like erythritol. The erythritol. I definitely notice a difference with taste allulose. I don't know if I notice a difference with taste, but I was talking to another founder about this recently. When I was pregnant, I was craving sour watermelon candies, and I was like, you know what? I'm not going to go for the Sour Patch Kids, but I'll go for, like, the better for you 1. I can't remember the name off the top of my head. I tried it. I liked it. I felt my temperature raised. Like I had a fever after I was eating it. And I was like, maybe it's just me being pregnant and hormones and whatever. So then I reach for them again. Another day, same thing happened. I'm like, is it the allulose?
09:40
Caitlin Bricker
Is it something else in the ingredients? I don't know. It's been a little bit of a question mark for me.
09:46
Ashley Whalen
Honestly, I didn't even want to go there. And I felt like also there's so many products out there that do have so many crazy sweetener ingredients. For me, it was just best to keep it simple. That's why we have, like, simple flavors. We're not doing like Cookie Monster Supreme. You know, everything is very pronounceable and simple. So that's just how we wanted to keep the trend of the ingredients pace.
10:06
Caitlin Bricker
Well, I think you are on the right path with that. And like I said before, there's a time and a place for these things. There is definitely benefit for people who can't have cane sugar, can't have these ingredients that spike their the glycemic index. But it's not achara.
10:21
Ashley Whalen
It's Achara. And you know what? There's a pocket for everyone, which is why, you know what, we can have the protein ice creams, we can have the protein froyo. They can all coexist.
10:30
Caitlin Bricker
That's right. Okay, chara. What does chara mean? What is behind the name? Tell me the story.
10:38
Ashley Whalen
So chara came to me when I was. I mean, as most founders, they don't really talk about it, but they're like googling names and like, trying to figure out, like, the best way to, like, title their product. They're like asking chat. They're like, is this catchy? I was thinking on this for a long time and I wanted it to be one word. I want it to be simple. And I was thinking about simple since it's Greek yogurt. A Greek word would be timely for the product. And I was like, joy. Joy is the first thing I think of when I'm going out to try frozen yogurt. And that Greek word enjoy means it's kata, but I didn't think many people would pronounce it. So it's Chara and so that's how Chara was born.
11:13
Ashley Whalen
But I love when people ask that because I need to do more education on it. I like that.
11:17
Caitlin Bricker
And I don't think I've ever seen a product that has Cara or Chara in the name. So it's well to know. Okay. Something I have to ask you is because I needed to get my hands on Chara after New Topia now, because I kept thinking about it at that time you were not shipping around the US because of the logistics with a frozen product brand. Where are you at with that today?
11:40
Ashley Whalen
So we're still not doing DTC because like you mentioned, shipping is just a nightmare for us. But we are in specialty boutique retailers. We actually are in one retail change, which we landed from Nootopia now in Minnesota at Lens and Byerlys. But we're also about to do a lot of distribution along the east coast. So hopefully you'll see us more this summer.
12:01
Caitlin Bricker
Yes, Massachusetts needs you.
12:04
Ashley Whalen
Yes, we'll get there. Don't worry. I know I'm responding to any messages about, you know, we'll be there. And I'm like, soon, I promise. But yeah, great.
12:12
Caitlin Bricker
Tell me what it's like being a founder with a frozen brand. I know that logistics can be hard. Where did you even start when it came to, okay, how do I get my product from here, a manufacturing facility, into the hands of retailers?
12:27
Ashley Whalen
It's an interesting way of approaching just. I think it's helpful, honestly, that I didn't have a background in Frozen, because one, I think anytime I talk to someone in Frozen, they tell me, beware, get out while you can. Do not enter this space. But I think just my ignorance is bliss mentality has gotten me this far. So hoping this still works. But I really do find, and this is advice I give to other founders too, that you don't have to have it all figured out when you start. If anything, don't, because you're going to have to pivot so many times along the way. I just every little, I guess, hiccup that happened always kind of directed me in the next direction.
13:02
Ashley Whalen
That helped me figure out the entire supply chain of I started in a commissary kitchen, hand making the product and then I had my health inspection and they were like, you need your own space. Yada, yada, call this guy. And then, you know, I'd call that guy and he said, you need this. Call this guy. So it's just a chain reaction that ends up helping you out. And then frankly, I think word of mouth referrals are always 10 times better than a quick Google search, so. Which again, why I love startup cpg, because it's so easy to just find things out quickly and get real referrals.
13:33
Caitlin Bricker
So can you give me an example of a referral that you've gotten through the startup CPG community?
13:39
Ashley Whalen
I actually got a referral for. This is niche, but a packaging referral. I needed like, within a week I was doing these pop ups and we needed custom containers to do a chara and a drink in it. And then I put it in the chat. Within an hour, I had the boxes ordered. So it's quick, which I appreciate. Yeah.
13:57
Caitlin Bricker
Wow.
13:58
Ashley Whalen
All right.
13:59
Caitlin Bricker
We didn't touch on this yet, but mint chip is my favorite. What are the flavors that you have in your lineup?
14:05
Ashley Whalen
Yeah, we have plain tart, which if you like little tangy berries and cream, which is our top seller. And I think it's because of the name is berries and cream, but it's basically strawberry. We have mint chip and then we have chocolate, which is my personal favorite, but for some reason people never grab it. So I'm trying to create promo for the chocolate flavor.
14:22
Caitlin Bricker
And how did you land on this lineup of flavors for the brand?
14:26
Ashley Whalen
I actually had, I think like 10, 15 flavors to get started. And I'm sure you've heard this a million times of founders just like wanting to create the largest set ever and then narrowing down. But yeah, we had coffee, mint, berry, lemon, like rose water. So many different niche flavors. I know it's. I would love to incorporate somebody's limited release. No, I know they're coming. But I was doing a lot of tastings and I just noticed how polarizing some flavors would be of like, rose water is my favorite. Or like, ew, I hate that. That's disgusting. And I looked back on it and I thought about, you know, going into ultimately the goal of major retail and thinking about what the average person probably picks up off the shelf. So I honestly went back to the basics of like, chocolate.
15:10
Ashley Whalen
Vanilla, I guess is plain tart, but strawberry and then mint chip. Like, I looked up one of the most popular flavors and I kind of did my take on it, and then I thought those could be my core four, and eventually we can outsource. But yeah.
15:23
Caitlin Bricker
Nice. And I see you've got some stripes behind you, and I know it's part of your branding too. I feel like I'm starting To see stripes pop up a lot, but I've not seen it yet on a frozen dessert. How did you land on the stripes for your branding and design?
15:37
Ashley Whalen
Honestly, I was always kind of obsessed with this certain esthetic. But even before I knew I was starting Chara, I also did a study abroad in Rome. Where? Italy. It's very Mediterranean. You see stripes everywhere, and I love that and like the Copenhagen aesthetic of entire world that you could build around that. And I think it just created such a great vibe that could align with frozen yogurt that I love to conjoin the two. So, yeah, you're right. It almost felt too, like, obvious when I got started of like, okay, this is definitely a product. Like, it's just stripes. Like, stripes are cute. Like, why has no one done this? And I realized, you know, someone's got it. So I just decided to jump on it. And I'm so happy I did because thank God, I'm still not sick of it.
16:18
Ashley Whalen
So it looks great. Thank you.
16:19
Caitlin Bricker
It really does look great. I think it does have that nice, like, welcoming, almost carnival kind of vibe. But now that you say Mediterranean, I'm like, okay, yeah, you're totally right with that.
16:30
Ashley Whalen
There's so many ways you can spin it, which is why I kind of like it. Because it's not super confined to one, I guess, aesthetic. People can kind of make it what they will. So. Yeah.
16:39
Caitlin Bricker
And speaking of marketing and branding, how are you marketing your product? Are you doing pop ups? Are you doing advertising? What does your marketing plan look like?
16:50
Ashley Whalen
Yeah, so marketing wise, I've really just monopolized on being as a young founder. It's a lot easier to resonate with a younger audience just because it's like a second nature. So kind of just sharing the behind the scenes and you know, what founder life going through. It is definitely one pillar that I like to focus on socials. But also I think attributing back to theme of I had no idea what I was doing, trying to get the word out there about the product and get people to trial it as a frozen product is really difficult.
17:19
Ashley Whalen
So I bought a vintage Volkswagen bus when I first started this, and I renovated it to be a froyo bus, and now we've been taking that kind of all over SoCal to make it a pop up bus and collaborate with brands and really get the word out there, which has been a great exposure moment for us. So love pop ups. It's definitely one of the biggest pillars for us for marketing. I'll definitely continue to do it a lot this summer. But yeah, I would say those are my two major ways of getting the word out right now.
17:47
Caitlin Bricker
That is so fun. Can you give us some examples of brand collabs that you've done?
17:52
Ashley Whalen
Yeah, we just did the Bureau Padel Classic, if you know Vero brand, of course. The celebrity Padel tournament was so cool. That was last week. We're gonna do, we do a lot with phabletics. We're doing a Shopbop event. We're doing, we do a range. So we'll do small local shops to large corporations who want sweet treat involved. So we do a range but it's kind of fun because you've got to see every side of the business, I guess, but also different communities every time.
18:21
Caitlin Bricker
Any advice or tips that you could give to other founders to land opportunities like that?
18:26
Ashley Whalen
Honestly, the way that every opportunity has kind of fallen upon or connected one. I did a lot of cold outreach when I got started and I honestly did that on LinkedIn or I found people's emails and did that. And once you do one and you can showcase what you're capable of or what it looks like, other brands immediately jump on because they just want to see proof of concept. So definitely easy to do that. But also just a friendly face is a friendly face. You never know like when somebody is just going to pop out of the woodworks and say, hey, like I know we're friends from middle school, but I work at this company now and would love to collaborate or you know, it's always the most unexpected opportunities that arise. So just be nice to everyone. I guess you never know.
19:09
Caitlin Bricker
That is really good advice. Any other advice that you'd want to give founders on this journey? So specifically in Frozen maybe.
19:16
Ashley Whalen
I mean frozen in itself is just it's an attitude thing of just making sure you power through no matter what happened, I guess. But I don't wouldn't say it's too different from the average founder. I more so would say a piece of advice that I got from another founder that really struck with me was just that the concept of pressure is a privilege and the mentality around like I even mentioned as an example, when something goes wrong, you can either look at it as a negative or it's stressful. But when you start seeing that as wow, you're that's an opportunity for growth and now it's pushing you to make the next step in your business. I really think that's the only way businesses grow.
19:54
Ashley Whalen
And once you can kind of understand that's how it operates, you can use it as a tool rather than, I guess, you know, a weakness or something that can really knock you down. So.
20:03
Caitlin Bricker
Huh. I have never heard pressure as a privilege before. And that is going to stick with me. Maybe I've been living under a rock, but I'm glad I hear it from you today.
20:13
Ashley Whalen
Yeah, I'm not. I need to figure out who says that. I've heard it before, but I really do. Like, I swear by it because once I kind of shifted that mentality, I swear it. It helps you sleep at night. Yeah.
20:24
Caitlin Bricker
And I mean, if I can just think very briefly on the instances in my life where I get pressure, whenever that pressure is put on me, it's typically something that's going to push me to make me better or make something more efficient, streamline something. It's not something that's going to put pressure on me. That's in a way that's going to.
20:43
Ashley Whalen
Negatively affect me a hundred percent. And I think also if you see it that way and you can kind of look back on these instances, you'll understand, like, it's just how life operates. So it's good to have pressure. If you're a business owner, it's the best thing for you because it means that you're moving forward.
20:57
Caitlin Bricker
So always refining, I would assume.
21:00
Ashley Whalen
Yes, totally.
21:02
Caitlin Bricker
Speaking of which, how are you pitching yourself to retailers? Are you refining your pitch all the time?
21:08
Ashley Whalen
Always. And I think it's always tailored to whatever situation it is. I feel like founders are like chameleons, always morphing to whatever environment they're at. But yes, we, right now, we're honestly more focused on just scaling our supply chain before we can really get more retailers involved. But as we pitch, I think founder first is always really important just because hearing it straight from the source is always the best way to find out about a product. But when it's not that, just educating sales reps on the best way to get the vibe of Froyo out. I mean, saying it's Froyo versus really explaining what the brand is, two very different things. So, yes.
21:45
Caitlin Bricker
Yeah, I think you have a really good point there. And we touched on this earlier about your differentiators and how you're differentiating yourself from the typical thing that might pop into everybody's mind when they hear protein X, Y, Z.
21:59
Ashley Whalen
Totally. I know, just shifting the narrative and making it more accessible to the average person, but also to women. I think it's kind of Protein's been a little bit gendered, so helping to kind of get out of that mindset. I think we're just seeing so many different fitness trends, being a little more, you know, welcomed by women. Even seeing beauty brands sponsoring NBA teams and creatine becoming a staple for women now. There's just so many ways that it's intermingling right now that I think are very cool and it's just another way that we're taking over a new industry.
22:30
Caitlin Bricker
But yes, as we should.
22:33
Ashley Whalen
Exactly. It's for the girls too.
22:36
Caitlin Bricker
Oh, yes, it is for the girls.
22:38
Ashley Whalen
Yeah.
22:39
Caitlin Bricker
Anything on your radar for 2026 goals for Chara? Do you want to get them out right now and help like manifest them for the rest of the year?
22:49
Ashley Whalen
Okay, yes. I've always worried if I'm like gonna jinx it by saying it out loud, but I guess the overarching goals are to really expand into retail this year. That's just been, I feel like winter has been like our hibernating months of really figuring that out and getting to a point where we could be from a pop up brand to, you know, a nationwide staple. Easier said than done, but I really hope that's the, the main focus for this year and we're able to accomplish it.
23:15
Caitlin Bricker
I think that's great. Any dream retailers that you want to shout out, they might be listening.
23:20
Ashley Whalen
We would love to have you Whole Foods, but you know what? Not if you're another retailer.
23:24
Caitlin Bricker
I would love to chat with you too. So I'm assuming that you're looking to go more in the natural channel or are you also hitting conventional? Like what's the vibe?
23:33
Ashley Whalen
Yeah, starting off natural is the goal. Just because we're a natural product. And I think that's where we're going to find a lot of our target customers. But never say never. Open to a lot of different avenues.
23:43
Caitlin Bricker
I love it. Well, let's get Chara into more people's hands, hopefully into more retailers. Where can they find you on Instagram? What's your website? Give us all the deets.
23:53
Ashley Whalen
Okay. On Instagram and TikTok, we are at Chara Froyo C-A R A. And then our website is www.charafroyo.com. So give us a little follow. We post a lot of cute stuff, fun content and a lot of behind the scenes if you want to figure out how I'm struggling or not struggling that day.
24:10
Caitlin Bricker
So easy enough. Not the struggles. But you know what? I think a lot of founders are finding themselves to have very relatable content when they're posting about the Struggles. I think building in public is huge for founders. I think it makes you more approachable for other founders, more approachable for consumers. And I think it also says a lot about what retailers can expect when they're building a relationship and partnership with you too.
24:38
Ashley Whalen
Thank you. I know. I feel like every time I meet a founder that I've been following online, it's like such a weird, para social relationship we already have. And I'm like, I already know, like, you just had your birthday and you like, did all these like cool things for this retailer. But nice to meet you. So it's funny, but it's a part of the business, so you gotta do it.
24:55
Caitlin Bricker
You know what I think a huge benefit and bonuses of these founders like yourself. Building online, making videos. I would be able to recognize you at an event versus just seeing a possibly outdated LinkedIn profile picture. If I'm seeing you in action, I'm like, there's Ashley from Chara.
25:14
Ashley Whalen
Yes, a hundred percent. And honestly, I feel like it's a way that TikTok is putting it out to, like, your community, but walking around, even, like, people will, you know, stop by and they're like, oh my God, I think I've seen you on TikTok and I don't have a huge following by any means, but you know, it is just cool kind of building that community and who knows, like it's actually manifesting itself in real life. So it's fun to see.
25:35
Caitlin Bricker
That's super fun. Well, I'm glad we got to help share your story today and I'm excited for what the rest of 2026 has to offer you. And summer is almost here.
25:45
Ashley Whalen
I can't wait.
25:47
Caitlin Bricker
Big thanks, Ruchara.
25:48
Ashley Whalen
Yeah, well, thank you so much for having me on and taking the time to chat with me. I know you're so busy with shelfies, so appreciate it.
25:57
Caitlin Bricker
Well, we got you. We got you.
25:58
Ashley Whalen
Thank you.
25:59
Caitlin Bricker
Ashley, thank you so much for a great convo. I'm sure we're going to be seeing a lot of you soon.
26:05
Ashley Whalen
Hopefully. Well, thank you so much and appreciate the time. So great to connect.
26:09
Caitlin Bricker
Thank you. See you later.
26:11
Ashley Whalen
All right, bye.
26:14
Caitlin Bricker
CPG BFFs. We've now arrived together at the end of another episode of the Startup CPG podcast. As you may know, we're not just the top globally ranked CPG podcast. We're a community of tens of thousands of CPG founders and experts. And you should join us if you haven't already. Head to startupcpg.com to sign up. You'll get an invite to our Slack community, hear about events near you, and get access to opportunities that connect you with buyers, investors and other brands. It's free. So what are you waiting for? I'll see you in Slack and in real life. Thanks for listening.