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When we think of social change, our minds often go to protests, new laws, or stories of redemption and social justice. And social change is all those things. But often, it's also a long process where a community comes together, looks for solutions, and learns through trial and error.
Welcome to Impact in Action by MGT. On this podcast, we dive into the real stories behind every social impact solution.
From the vibrant heart of Baltimore to the rural depths of North Dakota, we discover what really goes into social innovation and community development. We ask the critical questions:
• What can we do to create economic empowerment across our local communities?
• How do we improve our schools to offer young people a better start in life?
• How do we help veterans transition their skillset to find the right job in their new life?
• How can we help those who manage our local communities provide for their community more efficiently?
Our guests step up to the microphone to reflect on their work, whether they're government professionals, social impact advisors, community engagement officers, or members of the public on a mission. They share their expertise and insights, show us what social impact looks like in the real world, and share their personal stories of empowerment.
Technology solutions, school transformation, or human capital solutions - a lot goes into social impact work. So, whether you're seeking advice to support local communities or you want to untangle key issues enabling economic empowerment, Impact in Action will help you grab the tools you need for yourself and your organization.
MGT is a nationally recognized technology and advisory solutions leader. As trusted advisors, we deliver enduring results that impact school districts, state and local governments, and other critical organizations with specialized technology, strategy, and managed solutions. We partner with clients to solve complex challenges, build resilience, drive meaningful change, and succeed together. At MGT, we're committed to impacting communities for good.
Impact in Action is the brainchild of MGT's dedicated advisors, produced in collaboration with the team at Lower Street. The podcast is hosted by Chase Christiansen, previously the host of the Cicero Podcast.
Through technology organizations, government, education, non-profits, or even social entrepreneurship, we all have a part to play in bringing about change. So, join us on Impact in Action, and start on your own journey of social transformation.
Chase Chrisiansen:
Hey folks, welcome back to the show.
Before we dive back into our story this week… Just a reminder: this is part three of our Veteran story with Tom Joyce. So if this name doesn’t ring a bell; take a couple of steps back, and go listen to Part 1 & 2.
Trust me, it’s worth it. Alright – now, onto our episode.
This week, we’re back in Minot – where our story began. We’re going to get some insights into what life in North Dakota looks like, and why Minot’s city government needed a Tom Joyce.
Tom – you know him now – he spent nearly 30 years in the Air Force, was a Colonel… And when he started his new Veteran life – it took a while to find his footing. But where we left him last episode – he had set foot in government work for the first time. He’d done a program to shadow a government executive in Cheasapeake… Then one thing led to another, and Tom was sent to us… At MGT.
So in this episode – Tom meets our talented recruitment team. He finds out what’s going on in North Dakota – and he starts a new life. Big moves, all around!
Buckle up.
Charlene Stevens: Having a veteran background in a community that also has a strong military base presence right, can help because you do understand the same language.
Tom Joyce: When we walked to City Hall, walked around and came to the interview, it was obviously a city that cares about its downtown and I felt like, hey, this could be the right spot.
Chase Christiansen: This is Impact in Action, a podcast from MGT. Often when we talk about social change, we think about protests… New laws… People helping people… Stories of redemption and justice…
But social change… It can start with one person changing their life. And taking a chance on a new community. Social change… It’s giving people an opportunity to do good where they’re needed. And supporting them – to reach their goals. On this podcast we travel around the country to see what social change looks like on the ground. We tell the real stories behind every life-changing impact solution.
We’re MGT, a provider of specialized technology and advisory solutions. Social Impact - it's what we do every day… So let’s take you to the heart of the action.
Today, we’re back with Tom Joyce, and a special guest from MGT... Charlene Stevens.
Charlene Stevens: Impact in action is making that match between communities and candidates and supporting individuals in the local government profession at any point in their career.
Chase Christiansen: I'm your host Chase Christiansen, welcome to Impact in Action.
So – where were we? Ah yeah – where we left off last episode, Tom had just gotten in touch with MGT. He knew he wanted to go into city government; and he was keen to find the right opportunity for him. The right “fit”, remember? But at that stage – he needed a hand to get through the recruitment process. So he signed up with our HR specialists, and… That’s how he met: Charlene.
Charlene Stevens: Charlene Stevens, Vice President of Human Capital. With MGT, I lead our executive recruitment services.
Chase Christiansen: Aaaah Charlene. She's the person you want on your side. I’m serious! She knows government work inside and out. Now you’ve never met Charlene, so let me introduce you: Charlene leads our Executive Recruitment services. Before she worked at MGT, she spent 20 years in government offices. She held chief administrative roles… Worked in all sorts of settings: rural, suburban, urban communities…
There were jurisdictions as small as 50,000 people — and then sometimes, bigger places too. She worked in the Twin Cities, Minnesota, for example. So yeah – Charlene has some serious public service expertise. And today - she helps get new talent on their path to city government.
Charlene Stevens: What's really rewarding and what I really enjoy about executive recruitment is first, it kind of keeps me connected to local government where I spent a large part of my career. And then secondly, the opportunity to connect and see local government in different kinds of sizes and shapes, um, different communities and experience, I do enjoy that.
Chase Christiansen: Discovering a community from the inside; connecting with local folks – and tapping into a town’s unseen potential... That's Charlene’s passion. It’s what her whole career has been about.
At MGT, that translates to a few missions:
Charlene Stevens: So I lead a team of about 10 full time recruiters, I do a lot of work now on the kind of proposal side with a proposal team kind of in a sales capacity, I guess you would say, we respond to requests for proposals or communities that are looking for assistance with executive recruitment also. Kind of matching the right recruiter with the recruitment. If I'm working on my own recruitments, there might be some interviews that I'm conducting with candidates or preparing for interviews or screening resumes. And then also kind of, Budget and kind of keeping track of some of the budget So it can be pretty varied and I think that's one of the things I also like about it no day is exactly the same.
Chase Christiansen: So in a nutshell – Charlene’s job is to reach out to local communities and ask them: “Do you need a hand finding your new assistant city manager? Yes? Well here’s a plan to get it done”. Then, with her team, she scouts the right candidates, and helps them prepare for the role. She’s here to make sure everyone finds their match. In her many years, Charlene has seen quite a few veterans come through these recruitment programmes. In fact, she has sought out ways to coach them.
Charlene Stevens: We did some work to kind of facilitate a strategic plan with the Veterans Advisory Task Force of ICMA there's some programs as the local government management fellowship. As well, um, and I, do Coach Connect or it is a program through ICMA and it's just, um, uh, free coaching. And so an individual sign up and they can be a coach or they can be somebody who wants to be coached.
Chase Christiansen: And that's exactly what she did with Tom. Truth be told, Charlene is probably the reason Tom lives in Minot today – there, I said it. The pair was introduced through the ICMA - the International City / County Management Association. And the work started from there.
Tom Joyce: So when Charlene got in touch with me we had a zoom call She had done her homework. She looked at my resume. She probably, you know, even looked at LinkedIn for all I know, but, um, it was an exchange of conversation.
Chase Christiansen: This first call wasn't an interview or anything. It was just… A call. A conversation.
But Charlene did know what she was doing – and even then, she knew… Tom could be a good fit for this job coming up in Minot.
Tom Joyce: And I think she does what good executive recruiters do, right? She was doing the encouraging me to apply portion, right, which is, could be quote unquote saying selling the job, but she wasn't, over the top with it.
Chase Christiansen: Now, it needs to be said: if someone – anyone – could sell Minot, it was Charlene. Because she was THE Minot connoisseur.
Charlene Stevens: Yeah, so I grew up in South Dakota, so I grew up in Sioux Falls, but have family that's kind of in other parts of South Dakota, and then actually my grandparents were from a smaller community in North Dakota Valley City.
Chase Christiansen: Yeah, Charlene understands what this region feels like to live in. And in the case of Minot: it’s a place with a lot of history and life. People call Minot the Magic City, because it appeared out of nowhere, back in the late 19th century. Well – not exactly out of nowhere. At the time – the Canadian Pacific Railway brought businesses to the area and so – boom - in a matter of years, the city of Minot came to life.
Now, it’s slightly different – it’s the Air Force base that brings a lot of activity to Minot. Minot is a small-ish community, with a great downtown – imagine a four by four block, older buildings dating back to the 1900s. Most of the shops are mom and pops. And then there are developers, too; working hard to renovate old buildings. Outside of Minot – there are no suburbs. It’s a just a nice little Midwestern kinda place.
Charlene Stevens: It's prairie and such. And so, it's not a mountain kind of landscape, but they've got a beautiful river going through downtown and there's some history there too. And They've uh, just a very welcoming community, easy to get around. Um, I think because the air base is there as well as a university is there. They have a lot of diversity. As a community kind of standing alone, and they had a lot of interesting projects going on.
Chase Christiansen: So – Minot has a lot going for itself. And yet. It’s not a place that attracts a lot of newcomers either. That’s the thing with small communities. They’re often hidden gems.
Charlene Stevens: We always say this in recruitment, it's always easier to attract people to a larger metropolitan area than it is maybe a standalone community or a regional center that's located farther from a metropolitan area. And some of that just has to do with perceptions of career opportunity for other partners or spouses, and so those can be harder to attract individuals because they really require a kind of relocation of a family and all of those, um, things to the community too. I think people don't always think of that when they think of Minot because they think of North Dakota, they think of the air base that's there, uh, they think it's cold, and so sometimes people are turned off by that.
Chase Christiansen: Frankly – Charlene is not lying. If you ask Tom what he knew about Minot before moving there – the cold was all anyone talked about.
Tom Joyce: Many people in the United States Air Force, would say: “why not Minot” and then the answer to that was, “Freezing is the reason” and again, it gets back to where it can get, it can get cold. It can be bitterly cold, right? But on the other hand, there's summers. Beautiful, absolutely gorgeous weather. I grew up in the Southeast and let me tell you, there's no humidity up here relative to the Southeast of the United States.
Chase Christiansen: Obviously the weather is not the whole story – but in Minot’s case – that reputation wasn’t serving the city well. Back in 2022, the local government was trying to grow their staff and struggled to find the right person. They needed a new assistant city manager. Someone who’d move to Minot, and help develop the city. Charlene had her eye on the case – because it wasn’t the first time they had trouble recruiting.
Charlene Stevens: Yeah, I had an opportunity to actually work on their city manager recruitment before working with Tom, and so, uh, three, four years ago now. They were doing an executive search for a city manager search and we were successful in being selected to help them with that. And so I had the opportunity to work with the mayor and the council on that executive search and place the current City manager there, Harold Stewart.
Chase Christiansen: Harold Stewart - remember that name, you’re going to hear a lot more about him in this episode. And Charlene is the one who got him in his current role. As City Manager in Minot. So they kept in touch fairly regularly.
Charlene Stevens: You know, the first year and kind of second year, he was kind of restructuring the organization and the leadership, um, of the organization a little bit. More for efficiency and some enhanced operations as well.
Chase Christiansen: See - the thing is: Minot didn’t just have an issue bringing in new people. It also had specific needs. Despite being small, Minot is diverse. It’s got the Air Force base, and a university – it’s a beacon for regional services. Which is both an opportunity and a challenge. Because – there are many parts to coordinate. Another thing is – the Air Force has a lot of influence on the local culture. Case in point – Harold Stewart, the new city manager.
Charlene Stevens: He's a very well regarded and experienced city manager, because when he was a child, he had lived in Minot with his family when his father was stationed. So when he applied for the opportunity in Minot, you know, kind of brought back some of his personal connection to the community. And I think that was really positive for, um, the governing body at the time to see that somebody kind of a really appreciated and enjoyed their community and that connection. Having a veteran background in a community That also has a strong kind of, military base presence, right? It, it can make, working and relating, to that employer or to the base and the base commander can make that easier.
Chase Christiansen: So yes – understanding how the military works – knowing how to speak with members of the Air Force -- it's essential in a place like Minot… Interesting, right? So if we recap, for Minot – the challenge was twofold. On the one hand: make the city attractive, bring in new talent. And on the other -- make sure that whoever steps in is a good fit. That they can really connect with the community. Here, Charlene says it better:
Charlene Stevens: There are lots of really good city managers, assistant city managers, but they're not all right for every community, even myself in my career, right? There are communities that I'm going to enjoy and be very engaged in, and strengths that I'm going to bring. And then there's other things that maybe I'm not going to bring that strength in. And if that community needs it and I don't have it. I'm not going to be a good fit there. Um, and so you want that fit to be on both sides. So part of it is listening to the, um, community and the client for us up front and understanding what they're looking for. Are they looking for somebody who's visionary? Are they looking for somebody who's strategic? Um, are they looking for somebody who is kind of a stabilizer or a change agent? Those are two different things. That's important.
Chase Christiansen: So when Charlene was brought back on the case, there were a few things she immediately focused on:
Charlene Stevens: Minot, they were looking for somebody who had some strengths in some background in public works, right? And so if you don't bring that kind of skillset or that knowledge or that experience, you might be a great, um, candidate, but you might be lacking something that they're looking for as well. You know, sometimes when a candidate's not the right fit, it's, it's not a, it's not a match. It's not that the candidate's not skilled, it's just not the right match of skills.
Chase Christiansen: Ok – so this was the very beginning of the recruitment journey. At this stage, Charlene understood what Minot needed, and the issue they were dealing with.
The next thing to do was to build a profile for the role; figure out which set of skills could match the opportunity. So – here’s what she found. First: let’s get it out of the way – the right candidate should probably have an appetite for small community living. Secondly:
Charlene Stevens: I mean, obviously somebody who is a strong communicator and very collaborative is always critical, in local government. I think project management is a critical skill in local government, because you're overseeing different, uh, departments, and the ability to kind of, um, see things at an overarching level um and somebody who could really, uh, help build and strengthen a collaborative team
Chase Christiansen: And then, someone who can develop and mentor talent in the organisation – that would be useful too. Now, that sounds an awful lot like Tom, don’t you think? Yeh, Charlene sensed that too.
Charlene Stevens: If you are in local government and if you've also been a veteran, you're very committed to public service and, you know, that's a natural kind of alignment, a commitment to public service. And, you know, the military itself is, it's a very diverse organization. And so they're very accustomed to working with individuals from very different backgrounds, and that, you know, can translate to being able to relocate into communities and adapt and transition very quickly. I think also that just the. military because there's relocation involved in that is individuals, um, are accustomed sometimes to moving and relocating for an opportunity. So those Skills translate very well.
Chase Christiansen: The other thing Charlene saw in Tom, was his ability to lead:
Charlene Stevens: Obviously he was really well developed in his leadership skills. I mean, he'd had a great career, in the military and then so he really brought kind of some, um, a robust kind of leadership profile, and then I just, you know, could see that he brought some of the skill sets that they were looking for, whether, you know, again, I mentioned kind of the public works background, the leadership background, leading teams. Um, and brought a lot of the things that I thought could make him a good fit in that community or a good candidate.
Chase Christiansen: Ok so – let’s recap: Happy to work in a small community - check. That’s what Tom did on military installations. Strong communicator - check. Project management - check. Commitment to public service, leadership experience, and ability to relocate – check, check, check. Well – this is starting to look pretty good, isn’t it? When she put the pieces together, Charlene started to see some real potential, if Tom got the job in Minot. And that’s what got him excited.
Tom Joyce: She, her point was, you know, if you, maybe if you're an assistant city manager for a while, that'll help, provide some, nurturing experiences if I decide to be a city manager.
Chase Christiansen: Tom gained confidence that he could do the job. And Charlene would help him shoot his shot. So– they got to work.
Charlene Stevens: When I had approached Tom and he expressed interest, you know, he applied for the position and then he went through the process that we put all applicants through, in terms of applying for the position and then a screening interview. Yeah. references all of our due diligence, in that as well.
Tom Joyce: I mean, literally, she said, let me, send me your resume and let me take a look at it. And she literally was like crossing this out, crossing that, because, you know, my federal resume wasn't exactly what they use in the local government side, so she really was helpful.
Chase Christiansen: What was so different about his military resume? I'll let Charlene explain.
Charlene Stevens: One of the challenges that we do see with veterans is sometimes that their resumes don't translate to a non military, right? So just approach it like you would any other job. Um, career shift, and just like anybody who's shifting industries, you know, so making sure that what, that your skill sets and that you're marketing your skills and your experiences and kind of staying away from, jargon from your industry in your resume and making sure that a non military Veteran can understand the people and the teams and the budgets that you led, taking the opportunity to, to talk to individuals like Tom or other veterans that are have made that transition to local government. So that you can understand it and they can give you some advice too on how to present yourself.
Chase Christiansen: For Tom’s CV, a simple piece of advice was: shorten the whole thing and frame your skills differently. Now – for all of you veterans out there – listen carefully, it’s time to take notes.
Tom Joyce: Where I was in my grade. You're expected to write your resume along what they call the executive core qualifications that has kind of five major themes, leading people, leading change, business acumen, um, results driven and, um, building coalitions. But, um, that the local government was the same, but different. It was like, okay, it's not a five page resume. It's a three page resume. That's not as important here, et cetera, et cetera. So she just helped me scope it and trim it up a little bit. I applied and then we had another conversation, deeper conversation about it, about the role. And fortunately, she knew a lot about Minot. She had recruited, um, again, Harold Stewart, the current city manager. And so she really knew Harold's, you know, desires and wants. Then from there, you know, we just kind of, it came together. And then I came up for an interview.
Chase Christiansen: Yep. Tom sent his application out – he was called in for an interview – and he got ready to nail it. This stage of recruitment was going to take place in Minot. The magic city itself! So Tom and his wife travelled up to North Dakota. Charlene came down too.
What I love is - this trip was actually beneficial for everyone. I mean, the hiring team got to see that Tom was motivated and committed. And Tom – he didn’t just meet his future employers; he met the entire town too.
Tom Joyce: When we came here, again, it's not a big city and we've lived in cities about this size in the past. This is a city that has some of the charm that I think a lot of our, larger towns and smaller cities are missing this day and age where it's become so focused on the suburb, and this city still has an urban center with the suburbs around it, when we walked here to city hall. Walked around and came to the interview. It was obviously a city that is trying to constantly improve and get better and provide quality services for the, for the citizens. So I mean, I felt good about it before, the interview itself, I felt like, Hey, this could be the right spot.
Chase Christiansen: The crown jewel is City Hall - one of the most recent projects in Minot's downtown.
Tom Joyce: The City Hall was an old Wells Fargo bank and it just was renovated by the city and they just moved in in May of 23. So this is, my interview was in October of last year. So they'd been here for about five months, but they did a phenomenal job. It's a lot of glass, a lot of open area, um, a lot of window natural light.. So that was welcoming right from the get go. It wasn't dark and dingy. It was wow, they care about their people, right? Cause I, I think that's really, really important that you like where you're going to work every day.
Chase Christiansen: Tom discovered a city that cared for its people. A place that was active, welcoming and wanted to do good. And that spoke to him. So by the time he walked into City Hall, Tom was ready for some handshakes and conversations.
Tom Joyce: Charlene was there and she coordinated some really great interviews. I had an interview with some former staff members and some other public teammates, state senator and, you know, former park district lead, et cetera, as part of, you know, kind of a peer interviews. And then, my, uh, Utilities Director, Jason Sorenson gave me a ride around town and just kind of pointing out different, you know, projects and those kind of things and that was really great because, um, you know, he's a direct report now. So he was probably reporting on me on how that drive went, right?
Chase Christiansen: Yeah Tom, you read that situation just right. And it won’t be a surprise but – the feedback was good. We asked Charlene, you know…
Charlene Stevens: Obviously he presents very professionally in a setting and that was seen well by individuals, and then I think also, it was an asset and seen as an asset, his veteran background because of, again elected officials, everybody understands kind of the role that the base plays in the community. And so somebody, who can professionally and represent in that, in that space and regard. Right? Um, was positive, and then his leadership style I think was seen as a good fit for the organization too.
Chase Christiansen: So yeah -- it went well. With the interviews behind him, all there was left to do was wait. So Tom went back to his hotel, he spent the night in Minot. And then the next day – something unexpected happened. You know that feeling when things are starting to look good and… Then you get a call? Yeah.
Tom Joyce: The next day. I think we hadn't left town yet. I was asked to come back and talk to Harold, that Harold wanted to talk to me. So I sat down with Harold and it was a good frank conversation in his office. And it was, you know, what's your end game? And then, so that was a frank question. I said, well, I'm, I know I'm dipping my toes into something a little bit new, but, I think my abilities, uh, my knowledge, skills, and behaviors could be helpful to be a city manager down the road, you know, or a county executive. Um, so Harold was very welcoming to that. He has had a number of his direct reports in this type of position, assistant city managers who are now city managers. So he welcomed that opportunity to coach, teach, and mentor. And then we'll just, um, We'll see where this goes, right?
Chase Christiansen: This final conversation – it might seem like a detail – but I think it captures something really special about this process. The city of Minot was offering Tom a new path, where growth was possible. It wasn’t just “welcome to the team”. It was “we want to invest in you”.
Tom Joyce: From there, I got a call from Charlene and said that they'd like to offer me the job. And there you have it.
Chase Christiansen: There you have it - the start of a new chapter. A month later, Tom and his wife Caroline were back in Minot, to take the next steps. And the rest is pretty much history.
Tom Joyce: Caroline and I came back in mid November and started house hunting. It's not the greatest time to look for a house in North Dakota. Moved in, middle of, middle of January. I literally think it was like minus 20 when we were moving in. And, and the house that we have , we overlooked this, uh, retention pond that has so much, um, You know, so many geese and ducks and pelicans and, uh, it is absolutely gorgeous. Sometimes I look out over this in the summertime and I'm having a sandwich at lunchtime and I feel like I'm in North Carolina. It's just, there's absolute beauty here. I think I might have the best, uh, back, uh, view from my deck of any house in North Dakota. So again, I'm a little biased there, but I do think it's gorgeous.
Chase Christiansen: One thing’s for sure – Tom is very proud of the city he serves. He loves where he is now. As for the friends who remind him of the good old adage - you know “Why not, Minot? Freezing is the…”- whatever? Well Tom has something to say to that:
Tom Joyce: Well, remember what it says on the entrance gate to the Air Force Base, as you're going past the security guards and it's the sign says: “Only the best come north”.
Chase Christiansen: Only the best, that's right. Today, Tom serves on the city executive leadership team. He is in charge of a range of services and operations – and he works hand in hand with the city manager, Harold Stewart. Their mission is to give Minot a new direction and answer the needs of the community.
In this new life, he continues to learn, every day. And in a way - it’s what he’s best at.
Tom Joyce: I was thrown a bone many times in my career and many different trainings, both formal and informal sessions. Why I applied and I think why Harold was maybe looking for somebody with my skill sets is, you know, I have a wide breadth of experiences. I've worked in many, um, states, multiple countries, so I'm kind of culturally aware, and I adapt well.
Chase Christiansen: As for the difference with his previous career?
Tom Joyce: You can look for the differences, but I'd rather go glass half full versus glass half empty and look for the similarities. In this case, you know, cities typically operate on their own, right? They have their own form of government, have their own elected officials, so there really isn't this higher bureaucracy . But you're also going to get support from above. Like what I did in many, um, you know, headquarters levels jobs in both the army and the air force , you know. We're just in a day to day search for best practices and helping the folks on the ground, in the unit, do things, uh, in a more efficient, more effective way
Chase Christiansen: In Minot, Tom gets to take his time. He’s in his favorite spot – boots on the ground, and hands in the dirt. And he’s in contact with the local folks.
Tom Joyce: You know, this morning I had a great conversation with somebody who works for the Minot Public Schools and just over the last two months, our economic development, our chamber here, in Minot puts together what they call the Community Leadership Institute. So that was a group of about 30, uh, different leaders representing different sectors in the, in the city got together weekly and, and met and, and got to know different, um, entities here in the city. So that was, uh, good for networking and, and getting to know some people of, you know, I've volunteered for a nonprofit board, so hopefully I can, you know, start giving back in that sense as well.
Chase Christiansen: It’s what Tom loves the most about the new role – the community is right here. Tom’s office headquarters aren’t 1500 miles away. He gets to see the impact and the value of his work, in real time. He owns it.
Tom Joyce: One of the reasons that I took this job, I felt it from the beginning and it's still today... You know, I need freedom of maneuver to work. I, you know, I don't need somebody looking over my shoulder. I know when I'm doing well, I know if something goes wrong, I criticize myself more than any of that. And I've been fortunate to work with Harold Stewart here at the city of Minot, who's been coaching me along, you know, he's a 20 year city manager and he's like a fifth, uh, third, So, he's learned a lot and he shares his experiences with me.
Chase Christiansen: This new career – it’s not just a victory for Tom. It's also a success story for someone like Charlene, whose goal has always been to find the perfect match.
Charlene Stevens: Yeah, I think what's most successful is that he really wanted to make that transition into local government management. The city manager is very open to mentoring him into a future city management role. I think a really good fit and I'm sure Tom will be a city manager in a few years and so being able to see somebody really kind of make that transition and continue to grow and, and be able to enjoy it. And then also really enjoy the community there as well.
Chase Christiansen: It’s with that kind of support that Tom was able to start over. And find a new vocation, beyond the military. Be it MGT, the ICMA, the city of Minot, the Military Veteran Services, or even Tom’s loved ones – it took a village to get here. It also took motivation, time and effort; Tom worked for it. And now, he gets to show up and do what he does best. So, if there’s one thing you take away from today – it might as well be that. Reach for what you do best. Or as Tom would put it:
Tom Joyce: My leadership mantra is: Go for the gold, compete and repeat. You're going to have a skill set you know, the Army calls it, you know, military occupational specialty,, you know, whatever you've been doing. Everything's learnable. So if, if you can't find this exact skill, I think it's look for positions where your behaviors and your motivations are going to contribute. And, and, and at the mid level and upper level, the challenge may be that the salary that you're receiving when you separate from or retire from the military, um, you, I would just say be prepared that you might have to take. a step back in salary to go two or three steps forward in the next five to ten years. And so that's just part of it. You have to be prepared for that. You're, you're not going to necessarily lateral or get promoted into a higher paying job and just prepare yourself for that. So it's not a surprise.
Chase Christiansen: So now – the time has come to send a heartfelt thank you to Tom Joyce, for sharing his life story with us. It’s been a long road – but Tom’s commitment to public service has been a guiding thread throughout. From this story, we’ll hold onto his dedication, his insights, and his unwavering commitment to giving back…
Tom Joyce: Maybe there's just a few bits of pearls of wisdom in there that I've learned from many leaders over time that will resonate with somebody and pursue, maybe something like I did, pursue a role in local government and, and use your military experience because it's there, it's helpful and reach out to your peers and your support network I'm, I'm there to support you. Anything I can do to help, especially my fellow veterans, I'll help you get to where you need to be. That's my promise to you.
Chase Christiansen: Heard that? If you’re out there, and you want to reach out to Tom – we’ve left his contact info in the show notes. You know what to do! And with that – we’ll see you next time, to dive into a whole new story. You’ve been listening to Impact in Action, a podcast from MGT -- a provider of technological and social impact solutions. Thank you to Tom Joyce and Charlene Stevens, for bringing their voices and experiences to this episode. Our production coordinator is Sarah Balli, supervision from Tiffanie Reynolds. This podcast is made in collaboration with the team at Lower Street. Writing and production from Lise Lovati; sound design from Ben Crannell. I'm your host, Chase Christiansen and we'll see you soon -- on Impact in Action.