Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Sixty-five GTM leaders. Tents in the Montana wilderness. No pitches, no name tags, no one asking what anyone does for a living. This is Arcadia, the leadership gathering Jason Yarborough built with his wife and co-founder Sam after years of watching partnerships get treated as an afterthought everywhere he worked. Three years in, they finally let us behind the curtain.
Jason walks us through why the whole event is built around trust instead of transactions, how the programming has quietly flipped from almost all go-to-market content to nearly all personal development, and the four blunt questions he asks every partner when a channel stalls out.
We also get into where AI is genuinely earning its keep in partnerships (it's not where you'd guess), why he thinks imposter syndrome is really just self-sabotage wearing a different name, and what it takes to run a company with your spouse without ever fighting about it. Sam joins near the end to talk about what three years of watching leaders show up and disconnect has taught her about trust.
If your partner team only hears from sales when there's a lead to hand off, you'll want to hear how Jason fixed that.
We discuss:
- Why partnerships still isn't treated as a native GTM function
- The four questions that turn around a stalled partner channel
- Where AI actually helps in partner identification and enablement, and where it doesn't
- Building a trust-first community instead of a pitch-first conference
Chapters
(00:00) Introduction
(00:00) Introduction
(12:50) The anti-conference conference
(13:36) The community before the content
(17:22) Three years of programming: from all-GTM to all-personal
(21:27) Vetting who gets into a 65-person room
(26:12) Imposter syndrome is just self-sabotage
(27:32) Why partnerships still isn't a native GTM function
(28:30) Where AI actually helps in the partner channel
(30:18) Running Arcadia (and a family) with his wife
(35:21) The science behind why this actually works
(35:50) Uncensored questions: dream vacations and decompressing after Arcadia
(39:59) Monday morning move: the four questions that reinvigorate a partner channel
(41:27) Sam on trust, and what's next for Arcadia
We are proudly supported by Nooks - One unified workspace for outbound!
We are proudly supported by Nooks - One unified workspace for outbound!
Learn more about Nooks today at https://www.nooks.ai/gtmuncensored
Creators and Guests
What is GTM Uncensored™?
Most GTM content covers the same ground. GTM Uncensored finds the operators actually in the seat and digs into what's true in today's GTM, not what sounds good.
Every guest is currently building a company, leading a revenue team, or running a GTM function inside a real business. During the show, Adam and Dale push the envelope until the real story comes out.
The show goes where most content won't: The motions that determine whether a company stays in business, or goes under.
GTM Uncensored is built for B2B revenue leaders at $5M–$100M ARR who are accountable to a number and need a real-world playbook, not philosophy.
Every episode ends with a Monday Morning Move. One specific action you can take this week, and a series of Uncensored Questions where listeners get unfiltered answers from people who've actually been there.
What we cover: Pipeline & GTM motion, post-sale architecture, CS & retention, NRR/GRR mechanics, RevOps, AI in the revenue org, executive branding, and more.
Your hosts: Adam Jay and Dale Zwizinski are co-founders of Revenue Reimagined. They didn't build a consulting firm. They flipped the fractional CRO model because strategy without execution doesn't move the needle. The questions they ask on air are the same ones they're solving inside real companies right now.
GTM Uncensored is the GTM conversations nobody else is having.
Adam Jay (00:00):
AI is a though partner, not a thought leader. We are all part of this marketing machine. And we see all this doom and gloom, how AI is taking over the world and how the machine wants you to believe that you are dumb and stupid and behind and you're not. It's the machine. Everyone just about has imposter syndrome when you actually think about it. Is it really imposter syndrome or is it just the way we're wired?
Jason Yarborough (00:33):
It's just self-sabotage.
Adam Jay (00:40):
We are sitting in the middle of bum fuck nowhere. Bozeman, Montana.
Dale Zwizinski (00:45):
I don't know about bum fuck.
Adam Jay (00:47):
No, it's bum fuck nowhere, but I mean that literally in the best possible way. Yeah.
(00:54):
This is stunning. So we are recording live from the Arcadia leadership experience, I believe. I don't think it's something like an event experience. Yeah. 2026. And there's a little backstory here and then we'll get into how this ties into GTM Uncensored. But I'd heard, and I'm pretty sure you'd heard about Arcadia, certainly for the past three years, and it's three years old. And when it started, I remember seeing it online and I remember thinking, who the fuck? And Dale will give me shit for this in a second. Who the fuck wants to go spend four days in the woods with 65 other people in tents at an event? And I looked at it and I knew Jason and I knew Sam and they're great people. And I was like, "There's absolutely no fucking way I'm going to this thing."
Dale Zwizinski (01:50):
Well, especially because you're so bougie.
Adam Jay (01:53):
I am a little bougie. And then year two comes and I hear how great it is. And then year three comes and we were blessed enough to be asked to come speak in front of the group at the event. And even before that, based on all the feedback that I'd heard, I knew I wanted to go to this event. And to be very clear for everyone that's listening how much I believe, and I don't want to speak for Dale, but how much I believe in this. Not only did we come to speak, but we actually told Jason and Sam, thank you so much for inviting us to speak. We still want to pay our share to be here. That's how much I wanted to be here for this.
Dale Zwizinski (02:32):
Yeah. And I didn't know what to expect. I heard a little bit about Arcadia actually. I wanted to go the first year I heard about it and I was like, "It's really amazing." But
Adam Jay (02:42):
You couldn't convince yourself to take time away from the boat?
Dale Zwizinski (02:44):
Well, I think I couldn't. And I've always wanted to beat Bozeman in Montana, but when I originally heard about Arcadia, I though it was more on the partnership side, which Jason talks about a little bit. And I was like, "Does it really fit into what we're doing, how we're doing it, et cetera." And when we spoke with Jason this year, he was expanding more into complete GTM. And I have to say beyond my expectation. I can't even explain. It's not an event. No. It's not. It's not even an experience. It's beyond an experience. I don't know how you go beyond an experience.
Adam Jay (03:25):
So there's 60-ish Samad people here. I could say confidently I've had a one-on-one conversation with every single person here. I could say confidently I know something deeply personal about every single person here. I think everyone has laughed at one point, cried at one point, gotten vulnerable and shared at one point. And I was talking with Sam last night, and I wish we had video of this to share with the viewers, but giant teepee, everyone's under it, there's a fire in it, and all this knowledge being shared. And Sam says to me, "What do you think?" And the first words out of my mouth were, "How do I sign up for next year right now?"
(04:08):
And I don't think that way. Listen, we've done a lot of events. We've done Pavilion, we've done Dreamforce, we've done Saster, we've done inbound/unbound, name it whatever you want. And 90% of them, one of two things happens. I either never want to go back to because the conversations, the only ones that matter are the ones that are when you're checking in, when you're checking out, or certainly not in the sessions. Or I feel an obligation to go because I want to speak, but I want to get on stage, do what I have to do, and not talk to a human being.
Dale Zwizinski (04:39):
I think the sessions here, forget about the other experiences and where we are and where we're located, but the sessions were amazing from Lindsay to MK to Barrett.
Adam Jay (04:50):
MK, if y'all don't know MK and we'll drop some links in the show notes, that session moved me in a way that I can't even tell you.
Dale Zwizinski (05:01):
I think the thing from a content perspective that I really appreciated is when Jason and Sam at the end had a complete scripted podcast they were going to run, and they said all of the speakers hit every point that they wanted to make. And what I really appreciated while we spoke about go-to-market, and there's 65 plus go-to-market leaders here, was a lot of it was interpersonal to figure out how you're going to execute when you go back. So one of the things I'm curious about tonight when I go around and talk to a few people, how do you continue this on? Sam talked about it at the end, but we come to experiences or events and processes like this. Now you got to take all the knowledge that we've gained from the people here and bring it into Monday when we come out of here.
(05:56):
It's been great. We actually have not had much connection, much internet. So we've been able to really focus here. But dude,
Adam Jay (06:04):
You know me. Have you ever in the four years you've known me, seen me disconnect like you have
Dale Zwizinski (06:09):
On this one?
Adam Jay (06:11):
Anyone who knows me, I don't disconnect. It was wild. It was such a freeing experience. But to your point, the world does start again. And I think that's the hardest thing for these events is how do you take what you learn at these events, assuming you actually learn at them, and put it into action on Friday, Monday, Tuesday morning? So I think that's my question to you with everything we've learned. Yeah, sorry. What's the first thing you're going to take Monday morning that you're going to bring to not only our business, but to our clients?
Dale Zwizinski (06:46):
I think Lindsay's conversation on brave conversations or brave decisions and making sure they're aligning with the brand and the relationships and your accountability through the process, what your values are, all of these things. And her four by four matrix, I think when we start to make decisions around the business, are they brave decisions? Are we aligning with our values and what we are as Revenue Reimagined or are we not? And I think for people that we're not here, the four by four matrix on trying to stay on your trail and where your trail is versus the highway. And maybe we can get Lindsay on the podcast and she can explain that to the viewers when they see this. And so that's kind of where I would take it.
Adam Jay (07:42):
How often do you feel we're on the trail versus on the highway? So GT, I'm uncensored. I think one of the things we do really good, we get our listeners to be vulnerable. I don't think you and I, we banter and that's great, but I don't think we've really been vulnerable
Dale Zwizinski (07:58):
With
Adam Jay (07:58):
Our listeners.
Dale Zwizinski (07:59):
Yeah, that's a good point. Do we stay
Adam Jay (08:01):
On our trail or do we stay on the highway?
Dale Zwizinski (08:03):
So if I reflect just on the last year, which I think is the easiest way since the beginning of the year, I think we started on our trail and then we got pulled off onto the highway and we were going on the shoulda. It's what we should be doing.
Adam Jay (08:22):
I love what she said about the shoulda, shoulda, shoulda. Everyone wants to tell you, you should've done this, you should have done that, you should have gone here, you should have gone there. I love that. And at first I thought she was saying shit, should have. But it's should have. I love it.
Dale Zwizinski (08:33):
But I think we're getting back to our trail on where our North Star is. And we don't have it all figured out yet, but the other part was the AI backpack session that we had. And because it is an intersection on where we're going within the business, that got me really excited. And the last thing on Lindsay that I would say on her session is the 1%. If you're 1% off on an ongoing basis, now you become 20% off or one degree off to 20 degrees off. So I think that process of going across and losing one degree at a time. So I think for me, it's when we're making decisions, putting against her brave framework and seeing how that's going to work. What's your Monday morning move?
Adam Jay (09:18):
Ooh, look at you tying that in. My Monday morning move is similar, but I'm going to dwindle it down a little bit and say it's to be intentional with every decision, every word, every email, every phone call. And you certainly have to tie it back, but I am not as balanced as you. You have taught me over four years to sleep on it. I tend to be the one, whether it's a good email or bad email, I have gotten such a reputation for that instant response that I feel the need to respond. And when I look back and I reflect, oftentimes the response is great, but is it intentional? Am I saying exactly what I want to say and how I want to say it? And whether it was Lindsay's session or MK's session or even Barrett talking a little bit in morning one, being very deliberate with my actions and what I'm doing and how I'm doing, I think is something that is absolutely critical to me.
(10:19):
I
Dale Zwizinski (10:19):
Love it.
Adam Jay (10:21):
What didn't you like other than the cold showers and the porta-potties?
Dale Zwizinski (10:28):
Yeah, actually it didn't bother me because I came up to the lodge. The truth. Yes. What didn't I like? I wish I had more. I'm craving more of it. And so I'm in this weird place because we came in the Thursday before, my wife and I, and I'm ready to go home, but I'm still going to miss the camaraderie.
Adam Jay (10:50):
You don't like to be gone for long.
Dale Zwizinski (10:51):
Yeah. I mean, I love my house. I love where I am, so my boat. But I think I wish I had a little bit more session. I like the experiences, but I think Sam and Jason did a really nice job of getting the right guests at the right places in the session. I think it could have been another day. Yeah, I think a little bit more.
Adam Jay (11:16):
So it's what, two days? Yeah. Two days, two nights, and a happy hour the night before. I arguably think it could be three full days. And that's hard, right? It's hard to go away from cell phone and internet and all these things for three days. And don't misunderstand me. There's ways to get some wifi for short periods of time in the lodge. But generally speaking, you're disconnected and it's freeing. I think when I look at where go-to-market is going, we've said for a long time, events are the way. I'm home six days this month because we're all over the country doing events. And events mean different things to different people. And I think for us, the small dinners are good, but this was truly an experience. And I think if more brands or companies or people tried to deliver experiences, you would see business move more.
(12:13):
And here's the interesting point about that to me from this conference, and I'm super curious your take. I don't think I had maybe one very intentional business conversation, but I didn't say the words revenue reimagined once other than during our session. I wasn't talking about what we do. No one asked what we do. I didn't ask anyone what they do. I felt like the deeply personal connections that tied into natural conversations will lead to a level of trust that will lead to a level of business referral partnership, et cetera. But it's almost like the anti-business, anti-conference conference. Yeah.
Dale Zwizinski (12:51):
And I'll give you another example. I didn't really pitch us either, but we also had a speaking part, so I think a lot of people got to know what we did. So I think that would be a little unfair for me to say. But
(13:01):
I went on a hike yesterday as one of the activities with one of the sponsors, and we were just talking about music. We were talking about a bunch of other things. He was sitting in the front seat. And it wasn't until today when they were talking about him sponsoring the lunch that I knew what he did. And I was like, "Hey, we could use you. We have this challenge. We have things that we need to bring in to our clients. Let's have a conversation." So that's kind of back to your point, it's like no one's pitching themselves. It's all about building a deeper relationship, deeper community. And this is almost like a community experience, which is an odd thing to say. But I do feel, and there's many times I'll go away and not be involved again in the community. 100%. But I definitely feel like the connections I made here, I will continue those conversations and help any of the people out here that need help.
Adam Jay (13:56):
When you think about the future of go-to-market, and I'm going to piggyback off the AI backpack session that we had, there are a couple of interesting things that I think were said over the course of this week. Number one, AI is a thought partner, not a though leader, which I think is great.
Dale Zwizinski (14:16):
Why are you taking my sayings?
Adam Jay (14:18):
Definitely isn't your saying. But one thing MK said that really stuck with me is we are all part of this machine. We're part of this marketing machine. And we see all this doom and gloom, how AI is taking over the world and how the machine wants you to believe that you are so dumb and stupid and behind and you're not. It's the machine. Okay,
Dale Zwizinski (14:50):
Let's talk about fly fishing because this is huge in Bozeman and in Montana. You
Jason Yarborough (14:54):
Know whatever runs through it was filmed in Bozeman.
Dale Zwizinski (14:56):
Ah, see?
Jason Yarborough (14:58):
They've got plaques where Robert Redford stood and Brad Pitt did this. I love
Dale Zwizinski (15:02):
That. So what kind of fish do you guys catch here? Because we were talking about yesterday. Is it a trout?
Jason Yarborough (15:07):
Yep.
Dale Zwizinski (15:08):
Okay. So
Jason Yarborough (15:09):
Today I caught a rainbow trout and three cutthroat trout. I don't like trout taste of it, so I don't mind putting it back. So you can catch rainbow, brown, cutthroat, and brookies.
Dale Zwizinski (15:21):
Brookies.
Jason Yarborough (15:22):
Brooked frout trout are my favorite because they're the prettiest.
Dale Zwizinski (15:25):
So you caught four today. I know we were talking to some other, was it Ellen? One of them caught her first fish. Yep.
Jason Yarborough (15:32):
Ellen caught one yesterday. It was awesome.
Dale Zwizinski (15:36):
Back to the experience we were just talking about, what do you call this thing? It's like an event, but it's an experience. But it's a community, but it's a - It's a gathering. It's hard for me to put my words around it.
Jason Yarborough (15:51):
Yeah. We named it Arcadia Leadership Experience on purpose. A, you've got to be a director level or above to attend. It's an investment into leaders. But also we were going anti-conference, but that just seemed overdone. So we thought it was an experience because you've got all these things that are happening on the property that we rent out. So experience is the best way I can put it. We also use gathering because it's not very conference, more of a family gathering almost of these days. My
Dale Zwizinski (16:18):
Wife and I went to Yellowstone one of the days when we came in early, and I said to her, "You can't take a picture of the artist fall, the artist point. You have to actually be there and experience it." And I feel the same way about this event, this gathering. A bunch of people take pictures, we'll post video, we'll do all this stuff. But if you're not here, it doesn't happen for you.
Jason Yarborough (16:43):
No. I think I had about three or four new people today walk up to me like, "All right, I get it now." Yeah. What do you mean? So
Adam Jay (16:50):
I was saying last night, I was talking to Sam outside the teepee and she asked me just, "What do you think?" And the first words out of my mouth are, how do I sign up for next year?
Jason Yarborough (16:58):
Amazing.
Adam Jay (16:59):
Right instant. I'm curious, so three years in, what's been the biggest learning lesson? Because I'm sure you do something different every year, and I'm sure you learn something every year. But when you look back from year one to now, what's the biggest thing that you're like, "Man, that was wrong and we changed it?"
Jason Yarborough (17:20):
Oh man, great point. I think year one, we felt like we had to do all go-to-market sessions and topics. So the sessions were all around go-to-market. The whole point first year was like, "We're going to have this go-to-market conference, but we're going to come at it from a partnership angle." Because Sam and I both come from the partnership world. And we felt like it needed to be tech stuff. The cohorts facilitated conversations started out as tech conversations, but they somehow naturally gravitated towards the personal stuff. And that was a lot of us wanting to move in that direction, wanting to have that. My cohort went completely off script and was just talking all personal stuff. And then we were encouraging that to just go off and have these conversations naturally. Then year two last year we're like, "Let's put a little more of the personal stuff in there." And this year, as you saw, one full day was all about you, the person.
(18:18):
It's like we believe better people make better leaders. And so if we want to help people become better people, we've got to put the content out there for them. And we've been in this go-to-market landscape for a while. We know the stuff, we can get the stuff, but I think people really need to feel valued and nurtured and invested in.
Dale Zwizinski (18:38):
I think the hardest thing in go-to-market that I see, we can blame salespeople, we can blame marketing, but it's the leaders. Yeah,
Jason Yarborough (18:44):
100%.
Dale Zwizinski (18:44):
If you have shitty leaders, you're going to have a shitty organization. I was talking to someone here, and it was in the creek during one of our cohorts, and he was trying to figure out, do I stay with my company? Do I go? Trying to figure it out. And my advice to him was, forget about the product of service. Find a leader or find a CEO or someone that you really appreciate and you want to follow and go get that job. Whatever they're selling, because it'll just be a much more fulfilled experience for you. I've
Jason Yarborough (19:18):
Worked for a couple of great companies, and to your point, there's one bad leader and it just kind of ruined the whole
Dale Zwizinski (19:24):
Company.
Jason Yarborough (19:24):
It's really
Adam Jay (19:25):
Toxic.
Jason Yarborough (19:25):
Yeah. It
Dale Zwizinski (19:25):
Doesn't matter how good the product is. If you don't like who you're working for, it doesn't really matter.
Jason Yarborough (19:30):
And he wasn't just like he was the CRO. It wasn't just toxic for the sales team. He was toxic for the whole company. 100%. It was wild how bad it became.
Dale Zwizinski (19:37):
It's a cancer. It's a cancer. And I almost felt bad on our presentation because I felt like we were talking business, but I felt like I learned so much from Lindsay today. We were just talking about the Brave framework. It was
Jason Yarborough (19:48):
Great.
Dale Zwizinski (19:48):
Talking about MK and resonance and getting into your residence. And I just think those two things, if you can satisfy and fulfill yourself as a leader,
Jason Yarborough (19:59):
Then
Dale Zwizinski (19:59):
You can pour into others. 100%. And I don't think we do that enough. We always say we pour into others and then we pour into ourselves. And they say it for a reason on an airplane. Put your own oxygen mask on page and then put on your children's. You're
Adam Jay (20:13):
No good to anyone else otherwise. Right. I want to shift gears a second because it is GTM unsensored. So Arcadia's community. Yep. There is definitely a sense of community. Dale and I were talking that I think of the 60-something people here. I've probably spoken to every single one of them at some point. None of it business. No one said, "Oh, who do you work for? What do you do?" Or any of that shit. There's genuinely amazing people here. Over the three years, have you ever had to reign someone in or tell someone to calm down or ask someone to leave?
Jason Yarborough (20:48):
And we don't have to
Adam Jay (20:48):
Name names.
Jason Yarborough (20:49):
No names. Yes. I mean, calm down. Tone it down a little bit. We haven't made anybody leave. We're not those kind of assholes. We're just like, I'm not afraid to - I've
Adam Jay (21:00):
Been to conferences where people need it to be.
Jason Yarborough (21:04):
We've had a few that are getting a little too rowdy. Altitude can get to you real quick when you're drinking, so say that.
Dale Zwizinski (21:10):
But more about pitching. I think that's what you're asking, right? No,
Adam Jay (21:13):
I'm just asking in general.
Dale Zwizinski (21:14):
Okay.
Adam Jay (21:15):
I would imagine the way the experience is built, I would hope you don't have people who truly come in and try to pitch themselves. You know what the experience is walking it. Yeah, we
Jason Yarborough (21:25):
Make it pretty clear. A lot of people, so it's an application process to attend. And we're very grateful we know a lot of people in our network. So if they apply, we can kind of say, "Oh yeah, okay, we know who that person is. They're good." But if we don't know them, we'll jump on a call with them to kind of fill them out, hear what they're thinking, how they heard about it, why they want to attend. Just
Adam Jay (21:44):
Like Unbound and Dreamforce.
Jason Yarborough (21:46):
Yeah. Right. Yeah. If you've had a heartbeat in a poll, something like $5,000. Yeah. We've had to turn a few people away because we didn't feel like it was the right fit, vibe, people, position. How did that conversation go? I don't love confrontation, so it's a bit challenging for me. But if they're in a junior position, I've said, "Hey, look, we reserve the rights for this to be a direct level or above." And each year we do allow one non-director to attend. If we feel like they're a rising leader, I see Ferris over there. He came two years ago, and then Clint is here this year as our rising leader. That's awesome. I love Clint. And it gives them a chance to get around leaders and be a part of it. And we've had a couple people that are in a completely different industry and space.
(22:36):
This is a bunch of tech leaders. We don't really know what you're going to
Dale Zwizinski (22:40):
Try
Jason Yarborough (22:40):
To fill in here. So we're just going to say, let's wait until we maybe do an event that resonates with your industry.
Dale Zwizinski (22:47):
We're at the end of Arcadia three,
Jason Yarborough (22:49):
The
Dale Zwizinski (22:49):
Third year. What's up for four? Have you thought about four? Have you been like the things that worked in three where you want to bring this?
Jason Yarborough (22:58):
Probably more of the stuff around day one. I think we've made a shift to 80% people content, it feels like. Maybe more like a 90%. Maybe next year there'll be one sort of workshop around GTM, something. Whatever we call it next year. Yeah. Can we convince
Adam Jay (23:16):
You to go one day longer? Yeah, we talked about this.
Dale Zwizinski (23:20):
Yeah.
Adam Jay (23:21):
It's two full days, which is great. You have a balance of cohorts and experiences, which is great in workshops and group sessions. I truly feel, and I'm saying this as someone who hasn't spent any time at home this month, I could do one more day. Here's something I keep seeing with sales teams I work with. Generic sequences don't work anymore. We've all gotten so good at turning out the noise that even your own buyers are ignoring you. The problem isn't your reps. It's that your sequences are static and your signals are somewhere else entirely. That's why our clients use Nooks. And the thing that stuck with me is that their sequences actually stay fresh because the signals update them automatically. Right buyer, right moment, with no manual babysitting. If your outbound feels like it's shouting into a void, go check them out at nooks.ai/bridgethegap.
Dale Zwizinski (24:13):
I think I felt the same way. We were in the AI backpack session, and even in that session, I felt like I wanted another hour or something. A little more time in certain things.
Jason Yarborough (24:25):
I think year four we could lower the index on sessions. I could do away with sessions completely and have more opportunity to chat in smaller groups
Dale Zwizinski (24:35):
And
Jason Yarborough (24:35):
Get those together, provide more experiences. Or
Dale Zwizinski (24:38):
Have them come back with the experience that they brought in because I do think a big group helps a lot because it greases the wheel. And not everyone's going to speak in the big groups I think is a challenge because people will speak more in smaller groups. One of the best things I enjoyed was going down with a smaller group in the creek and just sitting there and having that conversation. That was
Jason Yarborough (24:58):
Incredible.
Dale Zwizinski (24:59):
What was
Jason Yarborough (25:00):
One big takeaway from that conversation for you?
Dale Zwizinski (25:02):
There was a person in our group that is trying to bring a product to market and felt like we all kind of talked about imposter syndrome. I heard that a lot in this conference. And there's really great leaders and great people and people that you wouldn't expect to say that. So I think it just brought me to a place of stop being fearful of things and fearful of not doing the right thing. So I think the imposter syndrome is a very interesting perspective that a lot of people have. And I think for the audience, I think if you feel that way, you should just reach out to people and have conversations because it's holding you back. I can see it holding people back.
Adam Jay (25:47):
Someone said something this morning, if you remember, and I don't remember who it was, maybe you do. Everyone just about has imposter syndrome when you actually think about it. Is it really imposter syndrome or is it just the way we're wired?
Jason Yarborough (26:02):
I think it's kind of the way we're wired. I've been working with a coach for a while and we kind of went down that track of talking imposter syndrome. And really it's the way he framed it for me and made a lot of sense. It's just self-sabotage. And I think to your point, it's the way we're wired. And it's the way that I think that everything comes at us from a media standpoint or leadership standpoint. It's like we're hardwired now or we've evolved to be wired that way to just kind of sabotage ourself and think that things aren't good enough. And so now my trick is when I started feeling that way, I play sabotage by Beastie Boys. It gets me out of that funk. So it's a framing like, oh, I feel like I'm doing this myself, let's play the damn song and play it loud.
Dale Zwizinski (26:45):
I think I felt that way on Sunday when we played golf at Finished Peaks, by the way. That
Jason Yarborough (26:51):
Was self-sabotage. No man of Beastie Boys could fix that.
Dale Zwizinski (26:56):
The first five, six holes, I think we struggled. And then the back half, I think we got our shit together, but amazing course. I appreciate the opportunity. No,
Jason Yarborough (27:07):
This is great.
Dale Zwizinski (27:09):
It was great. So
Adam Jay (27:10):
Let's go off the fly and do some GTM uncensored questions off the fly. So hopefully Dale can help think of some. Where's the state of partnerships going? Partnerships has changed over the past several years. As AI comes into play, as go-to-market changes, what does partnerships look like over the next 12 to 18 months?
Jason Yarborough (27:31):
I'm surprised that it's still not a native function of the GTM motion. The amount of companies I still work with and talk to, it's still kind of seen as like that's a partnership thing. It's a silo. So Arcadia means harmony. I use Arcadia because I wanted to build harmony between the sales and marketing teams. And all the functions that I've done it at, it's been extraordinarily successful. 300% growth, 500% growth. But when I go talk to these companies, they're like, "How are you guys working with your partner team?" They're like, "They're not talking to a company right now." I was like, "Well, how often does your sales team meet with your partner team?" They're like, "Thy don't." I'm like, "When do they meet with them? When they have a lead?" I'm like, "Well, what good is that? You might as well just put them on the BDR team.
(28:11):
They're just a glorified BDR at that point. And so it's got to be more integrated into the go-to-market function at large. And I think the AI and the tools and everything coming into play has got to allow all that to push into the tools that the field team is using on a daily basis, because if it's not natively integrated, they're just going to consider them to be glorified BDRs.
Dale Zwizinski (28:31):
So in the partner channel, where's the best place to use AI? Because we talked a little bit about AI, but where is that in the partner channel? I guess
Jason Yarborough (28:39):
It depends on the stage of your program. I've been working with a lot of startups, we'll call it zero 20, and helping them build their foundation. And I've kind of just put everything on automation from partner identification to even creating all the materials that they bring me in. I'm a team of one. And what usually would take me three weeks to six weeks I can now have done in a couple of days. And I can deliver that. I can provide my enablement, my training. I can tweak it to be whatever the team needs, what feedback I get and partner identification. Even down to one thing that a lot of these companies like, because they don't understand partnerships. So I'm even automating the communication to the leadership team, to the CEOs, CROs. They love it when I can gather all the information that I've been talking to partners with all week.
(29:29):
Instead of me having to come back through like, I talked to, what was the agency? I can just pull all that from Gong or whatever, have called, create this recap, push it out to them every Friday. And I think for the higher growth companies, there's going to be all sorts of different modes, models, and motions. I think next that there's got to be a lot more new AI functionality within CrossBeam to allow a lot of that data to push into the sales teams. Again, their daily activities have done a lot. That manual, and I see a world where a lot of that activity can begin to push to the sales team so they can take action on it and begin to prospect into their accounts using partner data strategy and tactics on their own because the AI has to push into those platforms. Awesome. Even into gongs and whatnot.
(30:15):
And right now they still struggle with that from a manual perspective.
Adam Jay (30:18):
So you built and run Arcadia with your wife.
Jason Yarborough (30:23):
Yep.
Adam Jay (30:24):
I love my wife dearly. I cannot ever imagine working with her. When a decision has to be made and when there's an argument, who wins? We
Jason Yarborough (30:33):
Work pretty well together. I'm always quick to say, all right, I'm team Sam. You can have the right of way here. Smart
Adam Jay (30:41):
Husband.
Jason Yarborough (30:42):
But I think we also have a clear understanding of let's kind of talk about this and work it out. We communicate very well. We have a lot of fun together. We always joke that I've got all these crazy ideas. She's like, "All right, well let's go make it happen and figure it out.This is one of them." And so what's great is we never fight. We never argue. Not even about work, not about home. It's like we have a great relationship. So if someone's like, we're trying to work through something, try to figure out what the best path is. I'd say more times than not, she's right.
Dale Zwizinski (31:14):
They usually are.
Jason Yarborough (31:15):
Dale's life is
Adam Jay (31:16):
Always right.
Dale Zwizinski (31:16):
That's so true.
Jason Yarborough (31:16):
Something about that logical thinking that we don't have.
Dale Zwizinski (31:18):
Yeah. I think it takes us a little bit more time to grow up.
Jason Yarborough (31:21):
Yeah.
Dale Zwizinski (31:22):
So you have a couple of younger children.
Jason Yarborough (31:24):
Yep. Jack and Nora,
Dale Zwizinski (31:26):
Seven and five. Yeah. What's harder? Managing the two younger children or partner managers?
Adam Jay (31:32):
Good question.
Jason Yarborough (31:35):
I mean, it's kind of the same. It's definitely a lot more fun with the kids, right? So maybe managing the party managers are harder. Depends on how big of a team you got as well.
Adam Jay (31:47):
When you look at Arcadia four, five, 10, do you cap it and does it stay intimate at a, call it 65 to 75?
Jason Yarborough (31:56):
Absolutely. Or do you
Adam Jay (31:57):
Envision this getting bigger?
Jason Yarborough (31:58):
Not at all. I envision it getting smaller actually. I feel like this number is, I feel like it's five too many, to be honest. I don't get a chance to have those really in-depth conversations with everybody. First year we capped it at 50, sold out. I knew everyone very closely, intimately, and everyone was talking. And here 65 is a bit bigger flex, but I don't feel like I get the chance to -
Dale Zwizinski (32:24):
So
Jason Yarborough (32:24):
I need the third day. Involved with everybody. This is true. That's a very valid point.
Adam Jay (32:28):
I can't speak for everyone, but one of the things, and there's a deer right over there for the listeners. Dale will capture that. But one of the things that I shared is we are incredibly grateful that we were invited to speak. And one of the things that was important to us is we still wanted to pay our way to be here. And I think when I look at going from 65 to 60 or even 50, and I don't pay to go to conferences, I normally want people to pay me to go to conferences. I
Jason Yarborough (32:57):
Get that.
Adam Jay (32:58):
I would pay more to be here with 50 people than I would 65. I don't envy you. I wouldn't want to have to figure out how I determine who. Because that's hard. There's a point where you're going to have to say no to people. One of the things I loved was when you asked who's been here two times, three times, the rate of repetition for such a small event. Listen, people go to Dreamforce and Unbound because they fucking
Jason Yarborough (33:22):
Have to.
Adam Jay (33:22):
People don't have to be here. So the rate of repeat attendees I think is really impressive. And I'd imagine that having to tell someone, I don't know where you draw that line and I don't envy you. Obviously this is a lot to put on and a lot to pay for. Like you shared with me just what the tent costs. So I can't imagine everything. I would pay more. And I don't know if you feel the same way to have that more intimate group because I think it would be that much better.
Dale Zwizinski (33:51):
Or you can kind of like. One of the things I was thinking about while we were doing the sombath piece in there -
Adam Jay (33:57):
Which by the way, Dale though he needed a bathing suit for. Separate topic. He though we were all getting in a bathtub. Continue. And just listen to music.
Dale Zwizinski (34:05):
Yeah. Hey, Pink Floyd.
Adam Jay (34:07):
Be very awkward.
Dale Zwizinski (34:08):
Or sabotage. That's it. That's it. Have you guys though about different events in different places? So maybe it's that way.
Jason Yarborough (34:16):
We're talking to a guy who's here now. He has 80 acres in California. We're talking about how we do an arcade on his property. We've got a lot of requests to come do it in Europe, which sounds like a logistical nightmare, but - It would be amazing. It would be amazing. It'd be incredible to do one over there.
Dale Zwizinski (34:33):
Even on the East Coast, I was thinking where could we pull one off in Florida? Where you have the experience of the beach and the water. Because this is an amazing property and experience. I think to me, if you guys were doing it, it has to be this beautiful on the nature side as it is on the experience side. Absolutely. Yeah, that's
Jason Yarborough (34:54):
Part of the wonder. It
Adam Jay (34:54):
Either needs to be remote or there needs to be cell phone jammers.
Jason Yarborough (34:58):
Yeah, absolutely. And it's got to be in nature. It's got to be outside. Part of what I love about this, and there's a lot of studies and principles around biophilia, which means we are wired for nature. We are connected to nature very much what Steven Davis was talking about while he was here. But there's also a lot of psychology that says two and a half hours in nature can begin to rewire your nervous system. So what can two and a half days do for people that never see nature? They never touch grass. They're in offices, they're in the concrete jungle, they're wherever. They never get out in this. They never see it. So there's a certain special thing that happens when you go home and it's the rewiring of your nervous system that I think people just don't think about until they get back home.
(35:43):
They're like, something feels different.
Dale Zwizinski (35:45):
Our final question we always ask everybody, and you live in an amazing place. Where's your dream vacation destination?
Jason Yarborough (35:52):
I kind of live in it. It's fun because we can go places here and feel like you're on vacation. But living here, we always want to vacate to a beach. I don't have access to beach. I used to live in North Carolina. I had access to Charleston. I lived in Pensacola and I had access to the beach there. So I would say Hawaii sounds nice about right now. We were talking really right now we don't want to go visit Portugal, visit some of the beaches over there.
Adam Jay (36:22):
I'd imagine there's a ton of work that goes into building this. I would imagine it's months, not weeks. There's got to be a high when you're executing it, but tomorrow morning everyone leaves. What do you and Sam go do? Other than go back to being parents, but what do you do to decompress and reflect on the amazingness that you just put together?
Jason Yarborough (36:44):
Yeah. Tomorrow's a little special. I get to go play golf. It's my birthday. So I'm going to play golf and then we're going to the rodeo with 30 people from the event tomorrow night. And then Friday we will probably take the kids to camp and then come home and sit on the couch. My classic move, the past few years, I would take people to Yellowstone for a guide to tour in the last day, and then the next day I would go fly fish or just get in the river. Were you the guide? I was not.
Adam Jay (37:06):
Okay.
Jason Yarborough (37:07):
So a guide to tour
Adam Jay (37:08):
By a guide.
Jason Yarborough (37:08):
Yeah. Okay. Yep. So my move would be to go fly fish by myself in a river and just get some quiet time and decompress. Decompress. I love that. Love being in the river and just the quietness and stillness of it all.
Adam Jay (37:19):
The one thing we didn't do today is our Monday morning move. I normally do the Monday morning move because you were so gracious to host us. I want to hand off the Monday morning move to you.
Jason Yarborough (37:30):
So
Adam Jay (37:30):
Here's what we want. It is a practical takeaway that our listeners can put into action Monday morning, and we're going to reverse roles. Your job is to tell us, tie it to channels, tie it to partners, whatever you want. What is one takeaway that our listeners can actually put into place Monday morning? And then Dale will either agree, disagree. Or push back. And we rate it from one to 10. Okay.
Jason Yarborough (37:56):
I'm going to pull a card from something Jesse said earlier that I do everywhere I go, every partner talking about every partnerships I talk to. And when I'm trying to reinvigorate a channel, I go and I ask partners four questions. Current partners, what's right? What's wrong? What's missing? And what's confused? So go talk to your partners and like, "Hey, I need some honest feedback here. What's right? What are you liking? What's wrong? What's not working? What's missing? What's confusing?" And I guarantee you they'll give you some solid shit. I have revamped an entire enablement program to meet the needs of the partners that they gave me that feedback. And we scaled that thing to a million dollars in six months.
Dale Zwizinski (38:34):
I love
Adam Jay (38:35):
That. I was going to say, I'm going to steal that for our engagements. And I love that.
Jason Yarborough (38:41):
I did Monday morning move right
Adam Jay (38:42):
Now. Did the Monday morning move right. I don't believe in tens. I'm going to give you a 9.5. That was amazing.
Jason Yarborough (38:49):
Wow. 9.5
Dale Zwizinski (38:51):
On
Jason Yarborough (38:51):
The GTM uncentered podcast.
Adam Jay (38:54):
I don't know. I'm going to steal it for our
Dale Zwizinski (38:56):
Engagement. So what do you get for information on confusing? I love that question.
Jason Yarborough (39:02):
What do we get?
Dale Zwizinski (39:03):
Yeah.
Jason Yarborough (39:05):
Let's see. I'm trying to think back to a recent conversation. See what's missing, retraining, confusing. I think -
Adam Jay (39:12):
You come on and join the party.
Jason Yarborough (39:13):
Hello.
Sam Yarborough (39:14):
Hi. Can
Jason Yarborough (39:14):
I have a sip of that?
Sam Yarborough (39:16):
It's version, but yes.
Adam Jay (39:19):
So Jason just shared with us, on every episode, we do what we call the Monday Morning Move. And it's a practical takeaway just to catch you up on what our listeners could actually do within their go-to-market on Monday. And what he said, and we're going to steal it because it's that good, is when you are going into, I guess, some engagement or a new role, et cetera, et cetera. What's right, what's wrong, what's missing, what's confused? And I love that. Where we were is Dale asked, "What are some of the answers you've got?" And when you've asked what's confused other than Dale, who though a sound bath was literally, he was putting on his swim trunks and we were all going to get in bathtub together.
Sam Yarborough (39:54):
That was a surprise for you then, huh? I though
Adam Jay (39:56):
It was going to -
Jason Yarborough (39:56):
These tubs are small, but I'm into it. Let's go. Up to
Adam Jay (39:59):
The sub bath, in his bathing suit and his towel.
Jason Yarborough (40:03):
The answer I would say, one of the answers I really appreciate from a partner is they were very honest with me. They were like, "We don't know how to go to market with you. We're very confused around how we position your product and this messaging, the work we're doing. Can you help us better understand how to go to market with this product?" And I think after some conversations and questioning, one of the things it came down to was they were confused about the product at large and how they sold it. And they're one of the ones, over the next six months, they became my number one partner as a result of all this training enablement and stuff that we built out. It was simply just listening to them, give them what they wanted. And they were like, "No one's ever done this for us. No one's ever delivered." I'm like, "Well, it's classic trust building."
Adam Jay (40:44):
I was talking to, I forgot who I was talking to yesterday, but one of the things that they said is it's amazing how rare it is for someone to listen
Jason Yarborough (40:54):
And
Adam Jay (40:55):
Deliver. If you can do those two things, you are heads and tails above everyone else.
Jason Yarborough (41:02):
I think those questions are hard for people that aren't good at listening because it requires you to not get defensive. You have to just sit there and listen and you got to be willing to take it and be like, "All right, yeah, that does suck. You're right. We'll fix that." And if you don't fix it, they're not going to come back as a partner or your new ones aren't going to come in as hot as you want them
Adam Jay (41:19):
To. Sam, what's your favorite part of Arcadia? It's three years in. You've had 50 the first year, give or take what? 60 the second year, 65 this year. Lots of experiences. I shared the story how last night you asked me how it's going and my immediate answer was how do I sign up for next year? What's your favorite part? Because there's so much goodness.
Sam Yarborough (41:39):
I think that maybe in this moment it boils down to, you just said it, but trust. I think it's such a unique situation where people come into Arcadia and they leave trusting themselves more. They leave having a trusted network, a truly trusted network that they're going to call for help, not only for their business, but for their lives. And it's just, we get to witness that over 48 hours and that's a gift.
Jason Yarborough (42:12):
I thought you were going to go a different direction with that. I think it is also a really great direction. It's like how much they trust us to do this type of event.
Adam Jay (42:22):
I want to echo your trust. I've spoken with every person here at some point over the past 48 hours. No one I haven't liked. I think everyone's amazing. None of the conversations revolved around professional, what I do, what they do, which I think is actually magical. I've disconnected for the first time in I can't even tell you how long. I don't disconnect. But when you look at the event, two days, four to eight hours. We were both saying we want another day.
Dale Zwizinski (42:53):
Yeah, you might want to eat.
Adam Jay (42:55):
Can we have? Is there a possibility that Arcadia becomes three full immersive days?
Sam Yarborough (43:03):
I mean, anything's possible.
Adam Jay (43:05):
Spoken like a true GTM leader.
Sam Yarborough (43:08):
Partner,
Adam Jay (43:09):
Anything's possible. It's
Jason Yarborough (43:10):
All
Sam Yarborough (43:10):
Right. We can do that. I'm shocked to hear that, honestly. I
Adam Jay (43:13):
Don't
Sam Yarborough (43:13):
Want to
Adam Jay (43:13):
Leave. And I have not been home at all this month. And I truly feel I could get value out of another day for what it's worth.
Sam Yarborough (43:19):
Wow. Okay. Yeah, I'm pretty shocked to hear that. That's great to hear. My assumption is that people are tired at this point, but you're proving that to be wrong.
Dale Zwizinski (43:30):
I'm tired because I've been here since last Thursday. But I do feel like some of our sessions, I could be and do more. And I feel like some of even the AI backpack session, another hour would've been amazing.
Sam Yarborough (43:44):
Good. Okay. Well, I'm glad to hear that.
Dale Zwizinski (43:46):
Yeah.
Sam Yarborough (43:47):
We always want to leave you wanting more.
Dale Zwizinski (43:49):
One of my questions on the whole event, and we were talking a little bit about this, if there's a disagreement, who wins? You or Jason?
Sam Yarborough (43:57):
Me.
Adam Jay (43:58):
So I want to clarify for a moment. So Sam turned around and immediately said, "Me." Jason, while ultimately his answer was you, was very much how I would answer. Well, we get along really well professionally and personally, and we don't argue, but Sam. You, just like my wife would instantly. Me. I love that.
Sam Yarborough (44:23):
So three years in, I think we've gotten better. Not that we were ever bad, but we've certainly found our lanes in how to work together. Jason has a lot of really crazy ideas and I am a get shit done person, so we just figure it out.
Dale Zwizinski (44:45):
So Jason has the ideas and then you're like, "Shit, how do I solve for this idea?"
Sam Yarborough (44:51):
Kind of.
Dale Zwizinski (44:51):
Yeah.
Sam Yarborough (44:52):
Yeah. Which is a good partnership.
Dale Zwizinski (44:56):
Yeah.
Sam Yarborough (44:57):
I don't think there's any. Well, the only idea I shut down was bringing a live bear.
Adam Jay (45:02):
What's next for Arcadia?
Sam Yarborough (45:05):
That's the million dollar question. I think Jason and I are trying to figure out how to create more intentional spaces like this more frequently. We talked about this today, but this event is so transformative for people. 100%.
(45:17):
They leave feeling changed. And we have an online community, which we do really awesome, amazing work in, but as we all know and have witnessed, that in person is where real magic happens. So hopefully more of that. And then one thing Jason and I were talking about this last night, but it's been really cool to watch. We've had several repeat guests take ownership in this. And so that's one of the main things about great communities is they're owned by everybody. So how can we give more ways for those people to step up and lead chapters, whatever that looks like. We're exploring a lot of things right now.
Dale Zwizinski (46:04):
I love that.
Adam Jay (46:05):
I love that. I think that is a great place to end. I can certainly say for me, it was transformative. I don't put devices down. I don't do a lot of introspection. I am - He
Dale Zwizinski (46:16):
Does that. He does that.
Adam Jay (46:17):
Definitely the one who it's -
Dale Zwizinski (46:18):
He's not self-aware.
Adam Jay (46:20):
Oh,
Dale Zwizinski (46:20):
Sorry.
Adam Jay (46:20):
I
Dale Zwizinski (46:20):
Said on camera.
Adam Jay (46:21):
On camera. It's all about how I can help others and I got to do for you. And I don't often take time to focus for myself. From MK to Lindsey to Steven, to every single person that spoke, I took something that I can take home. There are certain decisions personally and professionally that I've been toying with one way or another, and I definitely feel like I got clarity here. Good, bad or indifferent. I absolutely got clarity. And for that, I am eternally grateful to both of you for inviting us and allowing us to take part in this.
Dale Zwizinski (46:59):
Yeah. Thank you. Appreciate it.
Sam Yarborough (47:01):
Well, can I just thank you guys really quick? Because you guys came here, you offered so much to our guests, and they all took so much from it too. I've heard so much good feedback from your sessions. In fact, we were giving people rides back to the tents last night and they were like, "Why won't our leadership team do that? Thank you to you both and Jake as well, but for showing up here and being open to trying new things and sharing your talents with us."
Dale Zwizinski (47:30):
I would recommend this event to anyone. It's not an event. I don't even know what they call it. An experience. We
Sam Yarborough (47:36):
Don't either. So if you have ideas -
Dale Zwizinski (47:37):
I told my wife, I was telling Jason this, when we went to Yellowstone, we went to Artist Point and saw the waterfall and you can see pictures and you can be all about the picture of it. But until you're actually there and experiencing it, it's totally different. And I felt the same way. We were walking down to the tent last night. I'm like, "I don't even know. I can't articulate it. You have to be here. If you're not here, it doesn't do it justice."
Adam Jay (48:02):
Arcadia 2027?
Dale Zwizinski (48:03):
Yes.