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Welcome to I’m Not Even Supposed to Be Here Today, a conversational, culture-savvy podcast for folks trying to make sense of a world that has gone sideways. We’re here to unpack the issues that boggle our minds, all rooted in a little history, a little culture, a little humor, a little group therapy, and a little humility.
Desiree ep11 (00:00)
we're tired of voting against something like what are we for inspire us like
let's get out of this scarcity mindset and get back into abundance.
Chris Bevolo (00:17)
Hey, welcome everybody to episode 11 of I'm not even supposed to be here today. Conversational cultural savvy podcast for folks trying to make sense of a world gone sideways. We're here to unpack the issues that boggle our minds all rooted in a little history, a little culture, a little humor, a little group therapy, and a lot of humility, especially today I'll try to bring a lot of humility. I'm your host, Chris Bevelo owner of Bearing 287, an organization fighting the good fight to make the world a better place for all.
and the sponsor of the show. And I'm joined as always by my cohost, Des, who is a social impact comm strategist by day and who spends her nights remixing history to make sense of the present. Hello, Des.
Desiree ep11 (01:02)
Happy Marty Supreme Shutout Week to all who celebrate.
Chris Bevolo (01:06)
Yes. ⁓ we're going to get to that. Actually, we're going to get to the main topic, which is harm reduction as it relates to voting, which has been a thing of late. We're going to try to explore that because it confuses me in other ways. I have some strong opinions, but they're kind of privileged opinions. I can't wait to get into it. But yes, let's do talk about the Oscars. And I think like
I know we have similar opinions on things, but that is one that, ⁓ of all the things that happened, that's the one that maybe makes most, you know, I sound like a Viking fan who gets more excited by the Packers loss than the Vikings win. When I say that I was thrilled that Martin Supreme did not win any major, any, didn't win anything, right?
Desiree ep11 (01:51)
Absolutely nothing. Maybe like some random one or whatever but according to my list they won nothing of note.
Chris Bevolo (02:00)
Well, I mean, maybe it was one of those weird ones that don't even broadcast. I don't even know if they do those anymore. But yeah, so how do you feel about that?
Desiree ep11 (02:09)
ecstatic. ⁓ But anyway, I'm just, I'm really, really happy Michael B. Jordan got his best actor award. That was, that was a big piece. I mean, of course for best picture, I was definitely rooting for Sinners. But one battle after another was great. I know that the director, I can't think of his name, ⁓ but I know this was one of those like it's his time moment. ⁓
Chris Bevolo (02:13)
Why?
Desiree ep11 (02:37)
But I'm super thrilled ⁓ that, ⁓ my God, like I'm like losing my, cinematography, his original screenplay. I am ecstatic that he did get, that was his, like that's all him. ⁓ But if you know anything about Ryan, this is essentially just like, okay, he's gonna come harder like the next.
Chris Bevolo (02:46)
Cinematography. The woman who won. Brian Cougar.
Desiree ep11 (03:06)
the next and the next, like there is going to be a year where he completely sweeps. Like it's methodical. was actually listening to this, this take on, know, his sportsman, like the athlete mentality that he takes to this and that you're like, okay, you come back and then you win harder the next time. So I'm just, I can't wait to see what's going to come from him. That sucks that they didn't get best picture, but we're going to get him next time.
Chris Bevolo (03:33)
It's it was I didn't feel terrible about it, ⁓ even though I thought Sinners was better as well. And I looked at their, you know, filmographies and I'm like, God, Paul Thomas Anderson has had a lot, a lot of very respected movies, did like his little comment where he's like, Wow, you make somebody work really hard for this. I'm like, Wow, I'm not sure that's real gratitude. ⁓ And also Ryan Coogler, I feel like he's just getting started. And so if you want a good analogy,
Ben Affleck and Matt Damon won for best original screenplay when they had Good Will Hunting. And then Ben Affleck won for best director and best film with, gosh, that movie about Iran. So if Ben Affleck can do it, I'm pretty sure Ryan Coogler's in good shape, right? It's just one of those things that has happened in the past and it's just kind of eye rolling where somebody clearly deserves it, but they lose out to somebody else who's up for a lifetime achievement kind of situation.
And it's okay, like, it's not like, you know, I'm still a little confused on all the controversy, one battle after another, like, because there's different levels of controversy around it, and different takes on it. It's like, oh, no, there's, there's the, you know, black women are strong. And so that's cool that he put black women, except for his black fetish, except for he meant to do the black fetish. like, what is it? I don't know, I've given up.
Desiree ep11 (04:59)
Okay.
Chris Bevolo (05:00)
There are women in my life who can't stand it because a hot woman, forget about what color she was or is, was attracted to two complete morons, ⁓ unattractive men in their opinion. ⁓ So there's just a lot of like stuff
Desiree ep11 (05:00)
.
Chris Bevolo (05:20)
around it, which whatever. I'm just glad like you that Marty Supreme, and I don't know why I grew to have so much hate for it. I thought that
the film was just a mess. ⁓ I didn't understand like this guy's just a jerk. And I understand there's anti heroes but like he wins some practice thing in the end and we're supposed to feel good. What are we supposed to feel like and there's this kind of the like the mad cap pregnant woman shootout like what is happening in this movie? ⁓ No, I was I was
Desiree ep11 (05:51)
Okay.
Chris Bevolo (05:55)
I was
rooting against it. I think I gave that away. I'm like, I'll be less concerned on who wins and more concerned who loses. that's, I don't know, I was rooting against it, which is sad, but true.
Desiree ep11 (06:07)
But true and successful and the whole camp, was the whole campaign around it is what what got me. I did actually find the movie like entertaining from like a chaotic standpoint. ⁓ But it's the whole like build up and I was like, no, don't don't ever do that again.
Chris Bevolo (06:15)
Yes.
and I didn't find it entertaining, but also yes, you just hit the main thing was like I didn't want marketing to win out over actual quality. And the only other thing I'll say is the best song is that's an insane choice. But that's just me. I'm not millions of preteen girls who love K-pop or others, I guess, who love K-pop. But come on, that song from Sinners, I lied to you, is just crazy good. Crazy good.
Desiree ep11 (06:43)
you
mean, the cake,
Chris Bevolo (06:54)
Alright,
Desiree ep11 (06:54)
it
Chris Bevolo (06:55)
so... Go ahead.
Desiree ep11 (06:58)
It was just like data driven, like the K-pop, every moment, every piece of that song was like derived from like data to make it the most like popular song. So essentially it won. It was the effes of music, I guess you could say.
Chris Bevolo (07:14)
Even seeing I Lie To You played live, it ⁓ just got, it just gave me chills again listening to it. I'm like, here we go. Here we go again. And my wife's like, yeah, I need to watch this movie again. And I'm like, I'll watch it a fourth time. Let's go. Is that good? Not watching one battle after another. I watched it twice.
So not watching Marty Supreme again.
Desiree ep11 (07:36)
I saw, yeah, I was.
Chris Bevolo (07:40)
Okay, should we move on to our topic du jour? Harm reduction. Okay, so ⁓ we had Diana on a few episodes ago, and part of her biography is she helps organize around the idea of harm reduction. And we'll touch on this, but we're not talking about that form of harm reduction. We're talking about the idea of harm reduction in politics and specifically
Desiree ep11 (07:44)
Let's do it.
Chris Bevolo (08:08)
the idea that you should vote against somebody whether or not you like the person that you have to vote for to do that. And this has been a growing topic and we'll probably get it mostly from the left because I think it's been put forward more in the left though. There's definitely incidents in the past where this has occurred on the right side of the aisle, but it's hit us again, Des. And it's hit us early.
And that's what spurred me to just kind of say like, wait a second, wait a second, wait a second, time out. Can we talk about this first before you start throwing accusations of you've got to vote this way, got blue no matter who kind of thing. ⁓ So let's get into it. And really what triggered this was, I don't know if you saw this, but you're probably familiar with Jennifer Welch ⁓ from her podcast, I've Had It.
which is great, she's fantastic, her and her ⁓ co-hosts. Though she's the one that really seems to be more prominent. I'm not sure why that is, but she's more prominent. And she did an interview on her show with Hassan Piker, who, if you don't know who he is, he's a left-wing streamer, influencer. I don't really know what his background is. Do you know, Des, anything about Hassan Piker?
Desiree ep11 (09:30)
Don't. I don't.
Chris Bevolo (09:32)
Okay, so I mean, I've seen clips of him on YouTube forever and TikTok, but I don't know what his background is, but he's very popular, very outspoken. There was also another guest on there, and I don't know who that was. But anyway, Jennifer Welch asked both of them, it's 2028 and your choice is Gavin Newsom versus JD Vance, who do you vote for? And the other person kind of conceded, I guess I'd have to vote for Gavin Newsom, which made me think he was
more middle or ⁓ maybe even a right wing influencer. But Assan Piker said, ⁓ boy, at that point I'd have to vote third party. And Jennifer Welch asked him, well, why would you do that? And he said, really, there's no difference between the two at that point. that sparked, so no difference between JD Vance and Kevin, just that sparked a ton of backlash.
from moderate slash liberals in the democratic part of the tent, ⁓ who went after Piker and said, what are you talking about? You can't do that. ⁓ A third party vote's gonna give the election to JD Vance. You've got to vote blue no matter who. And they were throwing around this idea of harm reduction. So voting for Gavin Newsom in that kind of context would be harm reduction if you don't like Gavin Newsom. ⁓
Essentially what they're saying is Gavin Newsom would be the lesser of two evils. And so you got to go there. And I guess I struggle with that, Des. I struggle with it on two counts. One, we're talking about an election that's two and a half years from now. So ⁓ maybe Gavin Newsom would be fantastic two and a half years from now. ⁓ Maybe ⁓ voting blue no matter who is a life saving vote.
which some might consider that a life-saving vote today, to be fair. ⁓ So I also think that this, to me, and I'm gonna let you give your take before we dive deeper into this, ⁓ is a failed kind of approach because what it has led to is many candidates from the Democratic side, both in the presidential races and the Senate and even congressional races,
just not doing anything to address the people on the left, the progressives, because they're assuming they're going to vote for them no matter what, and continually moving to the middle to get these like mysterious votes in middle Pennsylvania of the independent who doesn't make their mind up until the day before the election. Those people, right? The undecideds, the independents. And so ⁓ they're going to keep moving to the right to try to gain them and
at this point they're just doing nothing. In fact, they're opposing many things on the left. And I'm kind of done with that. I'm kind of done with that, right? Like you're supposed to appeal to me for my vote. If you're just counting on it and you're gonna be so opposed to the things I believe in, why am I voting for you? So that's the setup. Des, do you have like an overview take on this before we kind of go into it a little bit?
Desiree ep11 (12:52)
Yeah, I mean, well, first of all, like, oh, God, like, are we already having this conversation? Because they put it out there. And, yeah, I mean,
I guess I think about the, I don't know, like part of me is just like, I don't want to think about this until I absolutely have to. ⁓ And that's part of that, like I hate the concept of political conversations because especially right now, and it's like so early, because as you noted, this guy, I looked him up, he's essentially like a streamer and a left-wing political commentator. He's on Twitch or whatever, like.
what makes him qualified to even have this conversation. And the big thing about the conversations around politics is that like, girl, none of y'all are political pollsters, nor strategists, nor do you actually know what's going on or any of like the science behind any of this. So like, we're all just like speculating on this thing. And instead of speculating on this thing, it's like, okay, what...
Chris Bevolo (13:33)
Yeah.
Desiree ep11 (13:57)
Can we be doing in the meantime? I don't know, everything is so speculative and then it riles us up unnecessarily so on things that we know very little about.
Chris Bevolo (14:11)
Yes, I mean, I think we can have opinions on this because we know about the causes and we know where people theoretically stand. So that I think is fair to debate. I'm 100 % with you on it is two and a half years out. So we could have just like punted on this, but it stirred me up in some ways I didn't expect. I think it's, I think it's England that has, I'm not sure where, but there are European countries where you cannot campaign until like
a year before the election or whatever, right? So they have laws to prevent some of this. But I mean, these are just people talking. There's no, Gavin Newsom hasn't even announced he's running. Also, I'm not sure how far back you can look at this, but the person who was in the lead like two years out is never the person who gets the nomination. it's actually not a good thing for Gavin Newsom to be in the lead right now. And by the way, in the lead,
Desiree ep11 (14:48)
. .
Chris Bevolo (15:08)
like recent polling shows him in the lead among potential Democratic candidates at 28%. So he's not a dominant leader, but he's in the lead. ⁓ But I still think it's worth talking about because to your point, Des, there are things we can do about it, but those things can take time. And so waiting until a month before the election is too late, typically. ⁓
But there are things that we can do between now and the election to ensure we have the candidates we want and the candidates we want to win. And hopefully those are the same thing. So we'll see if we can get there.
Desiree ep11 (15:50)
But also who are these people that haven't made up their mind until like a month before? don't, that part I don't understand because where are you? That I don't get and like, is that like a made up thing? But yeah, that's my only like gripe around this is like, who are these people that have just been like, oh, I don't know. I'm like, you don't know, you don't know.
Chris Bevolo (16:11)
I there are a lot of people that don't think about politics at all, which is weird to you and me. I think the other thing that I would put in the same camp, but it's maybe not quite as fair as the people who wait till the last second, are independent. So like, yeah, I voted for Trump last time and then I voted for Biden and I voted for Trump. It's like, I just have no concept of that. But you and I are pretty...
Desiree ep11 (16:30)
You
Chris Bevolo (16:36)
you know, we're in kind of the, we are part of the, I don't know what class you would call us, not the talking class, I guess we have a podcast. We're part of a ⁓ class of people that pay attention to all of stuff. ⁓ And that's, a lot of people don't. ⁓ But I still think it's, you know, this is gonna come into play as we talk about harm reduction. So first of all, let's just do a little history. I don't wanna belabor this, but as we mentioned at the outset, harm reduction actually didn't start in politics.
Desiree ep11 (16:43)
Okay.
Chris Bevolo (17:06)
It was borrowed from public health. And which is interesting to me because when you talk about harm reduction and other aspects of life, I'm actually all for it, right? And so it really came from the AIDS epidemic in the 1980s. And there's kind of different ways to address.
AIDS was transferred in all kinds of ways, but one of them was drug use, ⁓ sharing of needles and that kind of thing. So you can just like say, say no to drugs, and be Nancy Reagan and just try to like abstinence. A perfect example of this too is like abstinence. Well, if you want to prevent teen pregnancies, just don't have sex. Okay, fine. But harm reduction would be how about making...
condoms available, right? And so an example of this with HIV would be needle exchange programs, which just acknowledges that people use drugs and rather than trying to take the long road around of preventing them or, you know, helping them with substance abuse, in the meantime, you have a needle exchange program to help prevent the spread of AIDS. Okay, so that, and HIV, that is a, that's an example of harm reduction.
And then it kind of bled into politics. I couldn't find anything that showed like the first use of it. But it really became a thing in 2016. And you can go back further, right? You can go back to 2000 where Ralph Nader ran in the Green Party and I mean, heck, he cost Al Gore the election.
I mean, if he had dropped out or shifted his support to Gore, he had, what did he have? He had 97,000 votes in Florida, Ralph Nader did, and Bush beat Gore by 537 votes. So 10 % of those votes who would have taken a harm reduction approach and shifted from Nader to Gore, and Gore would have won Florida and would have.
presidency. So it goes back that far, but the first time it's really used was, you know, Clinton and Bernie. Is that so fresh in your mind as all that?
Desiree ep11 (19:32)
It very much is. And like, I will say the Nader, that's like a after the fact. And when we were voting, I, so that was my, I remember being, cause I was in Tennessee, I remember being at the, that was my first like,
Chris Bevolo (19:39)
Yes.
Desiree ep11 (19:44)
election volunteer, because Gore, Tennessee, and being there and watching everything toll in. But that was after the fact, we're like, ⁓ God. But when we were getting into the 2016 election, that was peak, we are voting for our lives vibes here. And so someone coming in and shaping it that way, that's where it ⁓ feels super detrimental up front than in hindsight.
Chris Bevolo (20:13)
Yes, very relevant. Very relevant because Bernie Bros, Bernie, the people who love Bernie love Bernie. And there was a lot around how the primaries were handled with Clinton. A lot of people felt like Clinton was just kind of handed the nomination. I don't remember exactly what went on. And so you had you had a surprising number of Bernie voters who actually voted for Trump. Right. That's different than what we're talking about.
⁓ you know, it's one thing to vote for the opposing, the greater of the two evils. Most of the time, what you're doing is you're not voting because you don't like the lesser two evils or you're voting for a third party. So that could be like Jill Stein, ⁓ as an example for that, right? What's interesting about this is the, kind of post-mortem on that election shows that if you break down all the Bernie defectors and things, it did not cost Clinton.
the presidency, at least not alone. It certainly didn't help. Clinton had plenty of her own issues, turns out. ⁓ And so I think a lot of people didn't like Clinton. She, of course, had all the stupid email stuff, including what James Comey did like three days before the election, which really hurt. ⁓ And I think a lot of people just did not believe that Trump was going to win.
So they might've voted third party or they might've not voted because they didn't like Clinton or whatever, lo and behold. By the way, if you wanna go back and use the flip side of Al Gore and ⁓ Ralph Nader, you can look at when Clinton was elected the first time. And for sure, Clinton was elected because Ross Perot stole from George H.W. Bush. So it went both ways.
But nobody was really talking about it terms of voting in a harm reduction way until 16. And then you go to 2024 with Kamala Harris and Gaza. And a lot of people point to her stance or lack of stance on Gaza, really. And not just her stance, but what Biden did during his presidency in terms of supporting Israel and not really, not really
taking the steps necessary to figure out how to stop what was going on there. And again, from what I found, that was not the only reason that Harris lost, ⁓ but it was, again, definitely impacted, but a lot of talk about, you know, harm reduction in voting. And you had people come right out and say, I'm not voting for Harris because of this. And so that's a little bit of a different issue, kind of like the,
the one issue voter who's like, if you don't support me in this one issue, I'm out. It's a little different, but it's related. What's your recollection of the 2024? Not the whole thing, not the whole election, but just the harm reduction conversation.
Desiree ep11 (23:14)
Well, not though.
⁓ well, if we're taking out like the lack of like a fighting chance here, I mean, I will say that it was an interesting experience of just so being in Chicago during the DNC when it was when she got the nomination, I was volunteering. I was a driver actually for the head of a DNC for one of the states. And so I got like more of this interesting kind of take.
Uh, on it. And it was essentially around the idea of that. This was the most unified. The party had been in a long time. And it likely was because we're like, Oh God, we have to do something about this. Um, now granted 2020, that was a harm reduction. That was a rally vote. Like Biden got in because we were like, we got to get this guy the hell out of here. And then 20, and 2024, it was like, we can't let this guy back in here.
Chris Bevolo (24:02)
.
Yeah. Yeah.
Desiree ep11 (24:21)
But it like, the strat, yeah. But it was an interesting time of like, okay, like this is it. ⁓ Let's figure this thing out and like, let's all go for it. I can't really, there was a lot of folks that felt like, ugh, I don't want to, but like, I will because like, we definitely don't want that guy back in here. But then there was a lot of people that were just super silent.
And that to me, the silence was deafening and that was like, you're voting for Trump. And like, not because you're for these other reasons, but I was, that was when I was like, I think this might actually go his way because the folks that normally would be vocal aren't, that means they're definitely not voting for her. And so the selection is going to go that direction. I woke up that day in November with a lot of trepidation.
Chris Bevolo (25:11)
Yeah.
Yeah. And, you know, Trump got essentially the same number of votes in 2024 as he did in 2020. Kamal lost millions of votes from what Biden got. so, you know, Gaza didn't help in her stance with Gaza and harm reduction that way. The fact that she didn't get to like get tested in a primary, I think, didn't help. But I'm not sure how big of a deal that was. Turns out she's also a black woman. So
Definitely didn't help. ⁓ There's just no way that didn't hurt her, unfortunately. So all of that to say, it's been in play and now here we are. And I think you've got another take on this history of elections that plays into this harm reduction because again, harm reduction is a synonym for the lesser of two evils. It really is. If you're pushing somebody to apply harm reduction in their voting,
You're essentially saying, I know you don't like this candidate for X, Y, or Z reasons, but they're not as bad as that candidate. And that has a problem all of its own, which I know you wanted to kind of hit on.
Desiree ep11 (26:25)
Yeah, and it's essentially since 2008, 2016,
some would say, especially given what you had noted around Hillary Clinton, that quote unquote, we haven't had a strong candidate in a while. And I will reflect that technically, yes, Hillary was a strong candidate in that she could absolutely have been a great president. But the issue there is that there was so much baggage from her past, her life.
from her husband, you know, there's all of these things that really got in the way of what is a brilliant woman. she, don't know, don't, granted, I don't know if we would know her, had she not married Bill. But I'm reflecting on her recent, ⁓ the Epstein, her interview or deposition, and I'm looking at her and I'm just like, God, she is still having to navigate and deal with
Chris Bevolo (27:21)
Yeah.
Desiree ep11 (27:30)
the repercussions and the actions of her husband. Like what could her life and career had looked like had Bill. ⁓ So, but anyways, all of that just kind of got me thinking about the idea of, okay, well, what does these great elections look like where there is actually contenders that people are riled up about?
And oftentimes it is usually just one. It's usually just one. It's kinda like, and most people are kinda good like, all right, I'm just gonna sit back. I'm gonna vote the party. I will say that it feels this way about Republican candidates. ⁓ There was obviously this weird kind of energy around Trump. There was some energy around, ⁓ my God, Arizona, the war hero, McCain.
You know, yeah, like that election, I was like, you know what, these are two great candidates. however, you know, he went a totally weird direction and pulling in, you know, the governor of Alaska as his, as his, ⁓ running mate. ⁓ but I think about like, okay, what did win? What did inspire? And like, essentially what you're getting at is that like Gavin Newsom inspires nothing in us.
Chris Bevolo (28:27)
John McCain, yeah.
Desiree ep11 (28:56)
And that, and I'm, the fact that like Harris, like she is, you know, a brilliant woman, but she did, she inspired nothing in us. And that essentially those presidents, those candidacies, cause as much as I'm like talking smack about Bill, his candidate, his campaign was like iconic and that he really, just like Kennedy Nixon for his time.
Chris Bevolo (29:22)
Yeah.
Desiree ep11 (29:26)
But like those people that really got you enthused and really inspired you as a voter, Kennedy, Reagan, Clinton, Obama, and dare I say Trump, and that all of these are, and dare I say that these other candidates have not. And so that's kind of what I've been thinking about. like, I'm looking forward to the Democratic Party finally giving us this candidate.
Chris Bevolo (29:38)
Trump. Absolutely. Yeah.
Desiree ep11 (29:54)
that we're excited about. But again, it's not necessarily just up to them to like just deliver like that, who is that person? That person needs to make themselves known and how do they go about making themselves known? So that's just kind of where I'm sitting is like the idea of sitting here debating like, ⁓ God, like the harm reduction is like, I don't want to get to there. And like, what can I do to like get a better candidate?
Chris Bevolo (30:16)
Right. Right.
And that's the thing that I think why I'm, because I'm pretty sure I've voted harm reduction multiple times, right? I would have voted for Biden and gritted my teeth. If he had stayed in, he was a terrible candidate at that point. I was really angry at him for running again. But I still would have voted for him and that would have been pure harm reduction, pure harm reduction.
It wasn't even his policies. He's just like the anti-inspiring candidate, right? If he would have ran, he would have done worse than Harris because anybody under the age of 25 would have been at hell to the no, I'm not voting for this fossil, right? We would have lost like at least two of my daughters in voting because they were like, God, no. And so,
It is so much about finding that candidate and you're right, like this is why I'm glad we're talking about it now because we have time to hopefully push for that, right? And we have to be aware that we don't want to just rely on harm reduction, right? Because you could say that about Gavin Newsom, though I think he's got baggage that's different but somewhat equal to Clinton in terms of his, he's the governor of California, which turns out to be a really
He's very successful in what he does. But we're gonna get, I'm gonna give my little, a new something. Because it's not just that, don't like some of the stuff he says. I'm literally opposed to much of what he's come out for. So it's not even like a close call, and that's the problem, right? So let's just quickly, because I wanna just hit these really quick. I'm gonna hit why people think harm reduction is smart.
and then why people are against it. I'm gonna go through it really quick. I'll stop after the first one, which is pros and get your take, see if there's anything, know, that you disagree with or wanna add. So first is, it's true the United States, independents rarely win, rarely win. Now I'm from Minnesota, so we elected Jesse Ventura as governor. He was an independent. And I remember when he won, I didn't vote for him, but I remember when he won, I was really excited, because I'm like, look,
Desiree ep11 (32:28)
Okay.
Chris Bevolo (32:36)
The process works. Somebody else could win this, right? But it really happens. So what that means is if you're not voting for one, then you're helping the other. So voting third party, not voting, you can say like, don't like this candidate and do those things. But then you're literally handing a vote to the other party, the bad party. So in some ways you don't have a choice, right? The second reason people say is because
there are consequential differences between the parties. Now, this is where it gets a little, this is where I'm gonna have a little bit of an issue with it. ⁓ But I think clearly we could say like, Clinton would have been different than Trump and Harris would have been different than Trump this time. Like I think that's pretty fair. And the implications of voting or, you know, not using harm reduction in 2016 resulted in
three Trump appointees to Supreme Court and the overturning of Roe v. Wade. So huge implications, very fair. You know, again, refusing to vote is not neutral in a close case. It's a winner take all. What would be great is if we had stack ranked voting, like some states do and some, I think New York City had that, where you can vote who you really want and then you can vote your second. And so if who you really want doesn't.
win, then your votes go to the second person. That would allow people to vote their conscious and not worry about helping the other party. Don't think we're going to get there anytime soon in the national election, but ⁓ some people will say like, hey, voting is only one thing, right? So there's, you know, there's other ways that, that ⁓ we can get what we want. So don't torpedo, don't throw out the baby with the bathwater by helping the worser of
Desiree ep11 (34:17)
Okay, so 2,000. We're barely there.
Chris Bevolo (34:31)
the worser, the worth of two evils. Just go ahead and vote for this person and then we'll figure it out later kind of. And then also the privilege of choice, which is kind of me ⁓ where I can stand and be really loud about like, harm reduction, screw that. But I'm one of the last people that's going to be affected when Roe V Wade is overturned or when LGBTQ plus rights
are run over like a train or we take away healthcare from the poor, right? Now, the thing is I care about all of that. I care deeply about all of that and I vote based on all of that, but it is fair to say like, it's easier for me to like take a stand and say, I'm not gonna vote. I'm gonna vote third party because I don't like, you know, do some and all these things could go the way they go. So anything you wanna add to why people should consider harm reduction when voting.
Does.
Desiree ep11 (35:31)
The pros for harm reduction is, yeah, mean, it is, it's thinking outside of, you know, like this one thing, like you'd mentioned, like the one issue voters.
Chris Bevolo (35:34)
Yeah, just the pros.
Desiree ep11 (35:43)
⁓ Or it's like, this doesn't really affect me. It's thinking about like, what is that future? You know, but again, like we are, you know, denied saves or the individualists were mostly thinking for ourselves. ⁓ but it's going to take us thinking more about like the collective. We like getting folks more, ⁓ back to that, but harm reduction is a thing that sucks and it, and it, and it continues to allow the parties to not have accountability for who, you know,
is getting that nomination of who we are actually ⁓ counting up to lead our country. Yeah, that's what I would say is like, ⁓ yeah, don't, pros, I think you covered it all.
Chris Bevolo (36:28)
Well, you're hitting on some of the critiques too, which is fair, right? Because you hear those pros and you're like, but, but, This first one I love, it normalizes permanent lesser evilism. Is there anything that could be more true at the Democratic party over the last, since, really since Obama, right? Like it's just a constant voting against something.
voting against, we're always voting against Trump. Like we're not voting for something and it's just become the norm. And it's to your point, like, well, just over that, give us something to vote for, please. We know that that's going to be not Trump, but give us something. And I think Harris tried, but it was just like tactical stuff. And it wasn't big enough. And you could even argue that Obama didn't really give us something to vote for that was
It was just something different and new and fresh and hopeful. And that was plenty, right? ⁓ This one is the one that I have a problem with. It rewards right or drift. I already suggested this is the case as those that would reduce harm, usually the moderates in the Democratic Party, they're striving constantly to gain like, ⁓ I don't have to worry about the people on my left.
because they're going to vote for me no matter what. So I'm to go after the ones on the right. And we just keep moving to the right, Des. And there's really interesting stuff that talks about during Mondami's ⁓ election run and people in Europe going, I don't understand why people are so upset about Zoran Mondami's policies. Like those are centrist in European countries, right?
And we call them socialism as if they're just like this evil thing. We have moved so far to the right. The middle is no longer the middle that I used to know. The middle is the right. And we're gonna talk about that in a second with our friend, Gavin, right? ⁓ We can issue accountability. Holy cow, is this not Charles Schumer, our Senate minority leader? Like this guy, you know, we just keep punting on these.
Desiree ep11 (38:22)
Yeah.
Chris Bevolo (38:46)
issues. You know, like, we'll get to them when we get to them, but we never get to them. So that's a big one. And then again, we've hit this over and over, but it's asking voters to vote against harm rather than for hope. And that over time wears you down. And I think if we were to run another, you know, lesser of two evils, there's going to be a lot of Democrats who just say, we're out. We're not doing.
because I just can't, I can't vote for somebody who doesn't give me any reason to vote for. So anything else that you would throw out there is.
Desiree ep11 (39:26)
Yeah. mean, like, I don't know about a ⁓ negative, but yeah, to your point about, yeah, we're tired of voting against something like what are we for inspire us like
Chris Bevolo (39:26)
A negative.
Desiree ep11 (39:37)
let's get out of this scarcity mindset and get back into abundance. And that each, as I'd noted before about like the most shining campaigns is that they gave you an idea. Like you had mentioned about Obama, like to me that sense of hope and yes, we can. And that was that call to, we're taking this, we're mobilizing, we're able to take this back into our own hands. With Clinton, Bill Clinton,
It was the, it's the economy stupid and the, feel your pain, where you're actually connecting directly with what we are as Americans, as United Statesians are experiencing and feeling. And Trump does that too. And that the Democrat party does need to find that person. Mom Donnie's ⁓ campaign is a whole like case study in how to do that. And that he's like, okay, New Yorkers, you are struggling with affordability.
Chris Bevolo (40:14)
Right.
Desiree ep11 (40:35)
I am going to focus on that. Every message is going to wrap around back to that and that it's going to feel uniquely unique, unique New York, uniquely New York, you know, from the brand, from the font, the colors, the signage looking like a bodega, you know, where is that? And like, here's a hot take. You had mentioned that like, there's never going to be that third party that is going to rise up. What if
There was like right now to your point where everything is like moving. like, ⁓ all of it's moving to the right. That the, what felt radically left back in the day is now like super centrist. What if there is that candidate, that person that is able to like rise literally out of nowhere, because that's kind of also, that's another piece of like how you win is that you can't have the baggage of people knowing you and knowing your, your mess. Like with, with Newsome, with Harris.
Chris Bevolo (41:22)
Thank you. and I think that's great start a business.
Desiree ep11 (41:33)
with Hillary Clinton, was too much, like we know too much about them. Whereas like Clinton came out of nowhere as a governor of Arkansas, Obama came out of essentially nowhere as Senator, all those things. And that what if there was that person that really like honed in on what we are really feeling right now and that is looking to that aspiration? Like what is that aspiration? ⁓
Joshua Doss, who is a political pollster that I follow, I love his takes. He is at Doss.Discourse on socials, but he was a part of this. ⁓ The Democrats, they just held this essentially like moving the middle, you know, basically kind of ⁓ convening in Charleston a couple of weeks ago. And he had noted something about this concept of...
you know, we've been skate goping and like how we're losing men and like black men and black people. And he had said something about the concept of, you know, we are, we're framing things as the democratic party. We're framing things as like, we got to reduce poverty. We got to reduce poverty. Well, what people actually want to hear is like, what's, how do we generate wealth? Like wealth generation? That's what people like were.
Everything that we're hearing out here in the zeitgeist is about like, how do I, how do I make money? Even the manosphere there's the documentary that, ⁓ Thoreau just put out that's those guys, like everything they're talking, they're doing, it's about money. And that was how Trump was able to get these men. But anyways, what if we found that person that was able to really, and strategists who is really able to pinpoint that thing that is. Touch that nerve. That's going to get all of us to wake up and be like, yes, this is our person.
And that is, has nothing to do with the actual, parties that then were able to get behind. that because they're going purely off of, know how to garner support. I know how to garner the people, you know, my socials or what have you are following because what Trump has done has also broken the mold for where candidates can come from. In the past, you always had to have some sort of political connection or some sort of political black background parole. I came out of nowhere with like as a businessman. And that was like, ⁓
Chris Bevolo (43:21)
Thank
Yeah.
Desiree ep11 (43:48)
kind of laughed at, but then Trump was able to actually do it. So now
it's like, we're, we're at a place where that candidate may not even come from being a governor or a Senator or what have you. may come like super out of the ashes of because they understand kind of similar to Mamdani, the pulse of the country and are able to rally the troops around that. What if that, so I know it just went on like a total tangent here and got on a run, but that's what I'm kind of thinking about.
Chris Bevolo (44:15)
No!
Two thoughts, one, I hope it's not on wealth. We have to find a different thing. I'm not sure wealth is the right word. Maybe just like, how do I live a good life or succeed or something? ⁓ But also Trump came through the Republican party. So that's more what I'm talking about. Like I love the idea of a candidate that's not of the norm, ⁓ but he still had to do it through the Republican party. If he had run on his own, which he threatened to do, right?
Like he, remember when they tried to make everybody commit that everybody would support the nominee and drop out, he wouldn't do it. So if he had lost the nomination and run as a third party, then Republicans lose that election. And so there's no way a third party rises without destroying the party that is closest to first, to me. There's just no way. Now that could happen. like, I keep like in my
Desiree ep11 (45:03)
Yeah.
Chris Bevolo (45:17)
in my worst online moments, I will just go onto Blue Sky and say, we need a new party, period. Because I'm so done with the Democrats and their establishment. But if we were to actually have a new party that was, say, more progressive, and actually, I think there's a room to connect with some people on the right who are just like a workers party, like support the workers, that goes across, you know, people now I think see through Trump in lot of ways, like, he's
Desiree ep11 (45:24)
Mm hmm.
Chris Bevolo (45:46)
He's actually not here for us. What do you mean? He's here for the billionaires. So like an anti-billionaire vibe could go across. ⁓ But that would, if that party rose up independently, the Republicans would win the next election, I would think. Cause they would pull more from the Democrats than Republicans. You'd have to like destroy the Democratic party, which has happened in American history, right? Like the Republican party wasn't an original party. It rose out of the.
Desiree ep11 (45:48)
You
Yeah.
Chris Bevolo (46:13)
the ashes of the wig party sometime in 1800. So anyway, maybe we can talk about a third party and another podcast does. That would be a good podcast. We'll wait till we get closer, but it's too late.
Desiree ep11 (46:22)
Yay.
Yeah. And
yeah, to your point, that, whoever that person is, is like, like, I guess I'm what I meant was like, they're not going to come necessarily from the democratic party, but like whoever they, that person is that rises up that the democratic party will need to harness that person. ⁓ because like, essentially like Lincoln was a Republican, like, so we can't like, it's weird. Like there's a history of flipping Lincoln was actually Republican.
Chris Bevolo (46:37)
Yes.
Yes.
Desiree ep11 (46:51)
And there was a quote from LBJ, Lyndon B. Johnson, after he signed the civil rights law, he essentially says, like, I think we just lost the Dixiecrats. Like they're going to go to the Republican party. And that's what happened. And so again, like we, the possibilities are still out there. We have to like, I don't know, not think bigger or something, but anyways, anything could essentially happen, but like we do need that person to inspire us.
Chris Bevolo (47:16)
hear you.
Okay, so let's talk about the opposite of that. Let's talk about Gavin Newsom for just a second. I just need to get this off my chest, right? Because every time I hear Gavin Newsom speak, almost every time I get upset, and there's two reasons for it. One, he just keeps moving to the right. he's just the classic, so that's classic. And he's not the only one. There are other Democratic,
like leaders, like Pete Buttigieg has done this. ⁓ Cory Booker has done this. So, Rahm Emanuel, good Lord, like he lives over there. So, a lot of these folks have done this, but Newsom has done it more recently. The other thing Newsom does is he flips around and he squirms and he's just a pure politician. So, I'm done with that too. So, maybe we do need like whatever our version of Trump is, a non-politician.
But let me just kind of explain why the idea of you've got to vote for Newsome or you're, you you're a bad person. Because here's just, I've just made a list as of things that he has spoken out on say over the last year that has really bothered me, right? So he talks into right wing talking points all the time. And again, he's not the only one that's done this. Buttigieg did this and I just wanted to like,
punch him in the face. Both of them have come out against like transgender people in sports. And this isn't even about that particular issue. They independently of their own accord raise this. And it's like you're playing right into the hands of the right wing culture war issue. That's not an issue for anybody really. It's a symbol, but by going there on your own,
you're playing right into their hands, right? And Gavin Newsom even said, this was like two or three weeks ago, that the Democratic party needs to be more culturally normal. Stop talking about pronouns and things like that. So I'm sorry, it's not culturally normal to be LGBTQ+. Is that what he's saying, Des? I can't imagine that's what he's saying because then when somebody, you know, try to get him to clarify, he waffles about it. What the?
the hell was he trying to do there? Okay, so that's just one. ⁓ On ICE, so he also has this weird thing where he goes on these, he had Charlie Kirk on his podcast and Ben Shapiro, and he's trying to reach across and understand, but all he does is back down. He did it with Charlie Kirk, and he did it with Ben Shapiro. So ⁓ his own press office came out and said that, ⁓
What was going on in Minnesota with ICE was state-sponsored terrorism. When Ben Shapiro asked him about it, he backtracked and said he disagreed with it.
Desiree ep11 (50:18)
and
Chris Bevolo (50:25)
What are you doing? And then he also said
Desiree ep11 (50:25)
Mm-hmm.
Chris Bevolo (50:27)
he does not agree with abolishing ICE. So again, I firmly believe ICE is a authoritarian, Gestapo-like police institution. So here he is. This isn't somebody who's even on my side, it feels like, right? Israel and Gaza, he's gone all over the place. Most recently, he called Israel a apartheid state.
I'm just waiting for him to flip flop on that because he's flipped before. He refused to call Gaza genocide. By the way, 77 % of Democrats believe that that is the case. He signed a new law in California that restricted pro-Palestinian demonstrations. Exactly what the Trump administration is doing. So again, like why would I vote for this guy when he's doing exactly what the Trump administration is doing? Homelessness. He's been ridiculously aggressive, spending millions and millions of dollars clearing.
homeless camps. And I happen to believe that the homeless or people need help. They're not criminals. It's an issue, we have to deal with it. But he has been very aggressive about clearing them. And now he's cutting the budget for the programs that support the homeless. So again, why am I voting for this guy? ⁓ Income inequality, he is fiercely against the wealth tax, which isn't a shock because he's a billionaire himself, I think.
I don't know if he's a billionaire, but he's very rich. He's against the wealth tax. He's against the wealth tax, which is so obvious that we need something to rebalance income equality. But all he's doing is protecting his donors. So he's of the donor class. So Des, this is where I'm just like, what am I voting for here? Because I'm opposed to him and all of those things, and they're all meaningful. It's not one thing. It's not like I'm Gaza or bust.
It's meaningful things across the board. So if I have to vote for this guy, what am I voting for?
Desiree ep11 (52:28)
He is not
Chris Bevolo (52:28)
Am I- Am
I-
Desiree ep11 (52:30)
No, he's not, candidates like him are clearly not for anything. They don't have a ⁓ sense of like, this is what I'm standing for and that's what we need. I will say though that we fall into this as the Democrats and I want us to not do this.
Chris Bevolo (52:30)
Go ahead.
Anything.
Desiree ep11 (52:56)
And like, maybe this is something we can learn from Republicans is that Republicans very much are just like, this is our candidate. Boom, let's go. I'm all aboard. They don't voice, you know, one thing I'm like, I have these concerns, but like they just go for it. And the issues that we deal with is that we, we continue, it's our candidate, but we continue to tear them apart. Granted, Gavin is not our, is not our ⁓ candidate. He is not.
He does not have the nomination. He's not throwing his head at this. It's like all hypothetical, but that's something we need to make sure that we're doing better about in the future is like just getting behind because as we see with like the misinformation and the way it works just in general is that we always like, oh my God, that's wrong. But like, that's the thing that we repeat. So then that's the thing that sticks. So then like with Hillary Clinton, like we all we heard was like her emails and how trash and da da da da da da.
Chris Bevolo (53:32)
Isn't it?
Desiree ep11 (53:53)
that we don't think about like what she actually brings to the table. Granted, like all of these are like terrible examples, but it's that, okay, this is our person, let's stand behind them. But however, let's not get to a point where we have this, a waffle-er of a person as our candidate. Because to your point, it's like, is like, this is the very, he is the prime example of like why we're having this issue within the party.
And this isn't the first time during the six Nixon got into office because in the sixties, the democratic party was, you know, having an active meltdown that played out on the streets of Chicago at the DNC that particular year. And so that's my focus is like, okay, like I don't want to get to a point where we are having to decide between advance and Newsom and even just like me, like saying it out loud, like I don't want to give energy, like I don't want to manifest that. So it's like, let's talk.
more about the things that we want. Let's find that candidate. Those candidates are going to talk about like what they're for, what they're going to do, how they're going to inspire the voters and how we're making the voter the hero of this story and not just like this demographic that we have to be mobilized. That's what I hear a lot from Democrats. like, oh, we got to get the middle. We got to get these people. got to do it.
Chris Bevolo (55:08)
E E
Desiree ep11 (55:15)
No, you need to fundamentally change what you're doing because you're just taking this person and trying to throw a framework or a strategy behind it, but without actually looking at, oh no, let's actually give the people what they are crying and screaming and throwing up for. Please do that. Sorry, I think you were gonna say something.
Chris Bevolo (55:35)
Yes,
and no, you have stands and you stick by them. And you realize not everybody's gonna like your stance, but even your authenticity in sticking with your stance is a quality that people crave, you know? And so what's interesting is you're talking about this as it used to be going into primaries, people would move to the edges, right? In the primaries, the Democrats would be all lefty.
And then when they got nominated, they would move to the center. And now they've just given up going to the left. They've just stopped completely trying to appeal to that group. And Newsom and Buttigieg and these others, they're appealing to the middle before they've even been nominated. And that's where people who I now have, I mean, I used to be that person. I used to be in the middle. And I think like,
Maybe I've said this on a podcast before, but my representative is Angie Craig and she, she has won our district, which used to be heavily Republican because we're way out in the exurbs of Minneapolis three times now, I think in a row. And she gives herself credit for winning it by saying she's reached across the aisle and she's been bipartisan and she's done it to the degree that I can't vote for her anymore, right?
but she thinks it's because she's been moving to the middle, to the right. Instead, the demographics of our district have changed dramatically. And there are far more people who are democratic to start with, who are voting harm reduction. They're not gonna vote for Jason Lewis, the crazy right wing radio commentator who was the representative before her, right? So she's missed the boat completely. Now, Des, she's in trouble.
because one of the last things she did, last two things she did was vote for the Lincoln Riley Act and vote on this stupid thing that thanked ICE for all their immigration stuff before the shit at the fan in Minnesota. And now she's getting pummeled because she's running for Senate. And people here are like, yeah, no thanks. And she's like, ⁓ that was a mistake. I shouldn't have done that. It's like, yeah, too late. Too late, right? But it's just an example of like,
move too far to the right, Gavin, and you look like Ronald Reagan to me. So again, like, no, no, no. So let's hope.
Desiree ep11 (58:06)
Yeah, it's like, what would it eat?
Now go ahead.
Chris Bevolo (58:10)
No, you go ahead.
Desiree ep11 (58:11)
What's it, what would it look like if we moved all the way to the left? You know, like, what does it look like? Essentially like that was what, ⁓ coming out of the 2008 Obama election, we had the rise of the tea party, which back then, which is essentially what, ⁓ 18 years ago, back then I was like, that's crazy. Like that'll never, and then cut to almost 20 years later. like, okay, wow.
those people organized, those guys, those people figured it out. But essentially, what does that look like if we actually start to your, like we were saying, it's like, go back to starting from the left and then kind of creep our way into what actually makes sense come after the nomination or what have you. But it's like, get back to the root of what your people are actually looking for. ⁓
Chris Bevolo (59:06)
It is a perfect example does because the right learned that lesson coming out of Mitt Romney's loss to Obama. did their big post-mortem and the result and what's his name? Reese Remus, I actually remember his name. He was the first chief of staff for Trump. He led the effort and the result of the post-mortem was our ideas are too radical. We need to be more moderate. That's what the report said.
Did they become more moderate? No, they went the other way. They went to the base, they went to Tea Party Mega, and they've had success there because that base was enthusiastic about people that spoke to them. We don't learn that lesson, and we continue to try to like, who are we trying to win by going after trans people, right? Do we want those people on our team? Like, I understand again, like,
That is a hot topic, trans people and sports, but it is not a real topic. It's not a real topic, it's a cultural wedge. So why would you even go there independently? Why would you say we need to be more culturally normal? I wanna just say fuck off to that. Like how can I vote for somebody who says that? I just, I'm sorry, it's a struggle. So we don't seem to learn the lesson. Like if we can...
Desiree ep11 (1:00:23)
⁓ you can't.
Chris Bevolo (1:00:31)
I'm really interested today, we're recording this, and your city is having a election,
AIPAC, not to get to that, but AIPAC has spent $21 million on this primary to try to eliminate the progressive anti-Israel candidate, Kat something. She's very popular. And there are other progressives in the race, and they're supporting them to try to the vote.
And so it'll be really interesting like her and Graham Plattner. And we saw James Tellerico, like are they following in Zora Mondami's? Like is that what we need here? Is we need to see the midterms prove that if you go left, you're gonna win. We need something like that to build momentum. Yeah. And we got too political there, maybe.
Desiree ep11 (1:01:21)
We need something.
Possibly, like do yes, do something different, but like, also don't like steamroll those that are trying to do something different, but what can we do about all of this? And kind of going back to what I shared earlier about the, all right. It's not about like just bashing the candidate that we get. It's about like, okay, I want to have a hand in getting to that actual.
Chris Bevolo (1:01:30)
I don't know.
What can we do?
Desiree ep11 (1:01:59)
candidate that is going to speak to what I am needing, what the country is needing. And that starts with actually getting involved. So if you're a person that's just gonna get on the internet and yell about some things, like I don't wanna hear it. But if you really actually want that or complain about the things didn't go your particular direction, I don't wanna hear about it, because you need to get involved.
You need to be voting in the primaries. You can even go so far as to get involved in your local party. You you can decide independent, Democrat, Republican, what have you, but get involved. The state and local elections matter way more than we actually talk about. And there is a machine, there's a machine. have to, people are like, we got to break down the system that I'm like, yeah, we got to be working on that. But then also if the system is still in place, we have to work within that. And so.
get involved with your chapter so that you can actually learn and understand like, do we find these candidates? How do they rise up? How do we support them? How do we put all of our full force behind that? And then on the national level, because you can't just like jump right into the national Timber kind of party, right? But getting involved there gives you more of that insight how to get to, and then you also become a delegate that then goes and votes on that particular nomination, that nominee.
But then if you are, and if you do have a strategic mind, if you do have like real campaign, you know, savvy, I think about like those of us, you know, in the marketing, in the brand world, like we know how these kinds of things work and you have your country's best interests in mind and not just as an individual, get involved, bring that thinking
Chris Bevolo (1:03:41)
Okay.
Desiree ep11 (1:03:43)
to your local party. If you are looking at the,
the candidates and how they're gonna outperform or like, don't know. Once we do though, get, like I said before, once we do get that nominee, stand behind them. Because what hurts us even more is that let's get like, they're not my candidate because da da da da da. And like, that's where we, especially right now. But there's something that's really interesting about this whole idea of like, this is the most important election of our lifetime. And I feel like we've been hearing that like every election for like the last like,
20 years. And, but the thing is, is like, it does feel that way. Like it gets ratcheted up like every single time you're like, God, when I look back at like the, the Obama versus Romney campaign, I'm like that girl, that was nothing. The Obama versus McCain. Like if McCain had gotten into office Mike literally would have been fine. It's, it's so
Chris Bevolo (1:04:34)
Right.
Yeah.
Desiree ep11 (1:04:44)
It's so interesting the perspective, like once you do get like, wow, no, this is a crazy person that's in the office. Like a mechanic on them, that would have been fine. I think I've even said this before. I'm like, ⁓ would have been fine. But anyways, that notion of like putting all of this like behind him. Anyways, just support who the candidate is and leave it at that. Like we spend so much time dissecting ourselves, our party, our candidate.
in the public, which the Republicans do not do. So it makes them look stronger and more unified and cohesive. So I don't know, what do you have to add to any of that?
Chris Bevolo (1:05:24)
Well, I will say that I guess it's possible that 28 would be the most important election of our life, but I tend to think it won't be. I think we just missed the most important election of our life.
If we have another election, let me put it that way, that'll be the telling thing, right? An actual fair election. It depends, right? Like if Marco Rubio is a Republican candidate, I don't think we're headed for authoritarianism. I think like he'll pull it back to the norms that we're used to. I won't like his policies, but that's again, like it's Mitt Romney, whatever. If it's JD Vance, who knows, right?
So I take a little solace in that, which you have to get through the next three years. I guess the two things I would say are one, the primaries. I've never voted in a primary in my life. Never. I'm voting in every single one. Like, I don't know, maybe there's just one. Is there just one primary? I don't know how it works. That's so hard. Like, is there, there's multiple primaries, right? Because there's primary for the midterms right now.
Desiree ep11 (1:06:17)
There's multiple.
Yeah, it just depends on what state you're in. ⁓ Back in 2008, I was living in Nevada. So I, was a, and that was when it was like a hot state. And so we got our first primary and I remember being there and it's like the Clinton, the Hillary Clinton camp versus the Obama camp.
And then, and what I mean about like Unify, like what came out of that Obama won his election, but those that were like for Clinton in that primary were still like, I don't know about Obama and tearing him down. Granted like luckily, boom, boom, won, but those are those moments where that could have gone like completely different. And essentially we're kind of living those moments where things go different. But yeah, if you.
Chris Bevolo (1:07:11)
Part of that
though, Des, part of that is just who we are as people on the democratic side, right? Like we're far more likely to criticize America because we want it to be better. We are critical thinkers. We're not just like, oh, this is what you told me to do. I'm going to do it. Or we have like black and white thoughts. We're more nuanced and gray. So part of that is just in our nature. I'm worried it's the case. Cause I hear what you're saying and I'm like, I don't know if we can do that.
but yeah, so like we have a, we have a Senate race that includes Angie Craig and then also our Lieutenant Governor who's very progressive. And I'm going to encourage everybody I know to go vote for her because again, she lines up with the, with the policies I believe in Angie Craig hasn't. like Angie Craig actually. I think she's this really strong person and, and, and, but her policies have been
intentionally, like trying to reach out to the right. And I'm like, I don't want that. So primaries matter. The other thing I would say is if you care about this stuff, you got to go a layer deep. Taking statements, headlines, like a perfect example is, again, I'm use APAC and I'm not going to give my stance on it one way the other, but we'll get to that someday.
Desiree ep11 (1:08:15)
Yeah.
Chris Bevolo (1:08:38)
APAC has become a really hot button issue and a lot of Democrats are running like Engy Craig from the support they've got from APAC. They're trying to like downplay it or whatever because it's become like, wait, who do you work for? And so they're not taking money from APAC anymore. But APAC, all they've done is there's different PACs now that they're different names. So if you go look at who they're getting money from, it's not APAC anymore, it's somebody else.
Desiree ep11 (1:09:02)
.
Chris Bevolo (1:09:07)
You've got to be really careful about what people say because they will tell you what they think you want to hear. Most of these politicians,
Desiree ep11 (1:09:13)
So.
Chris Bevolo (1:09:14)
even the ones that I support, will do that. Right. So it's not about the people in the middle. It's most politicians will do that. ⁓ So you really got to understand what their real policies are. You really got to understand what they've done before. And if they're telling you A, but they've always done B, you got to really think about that.
because they're telling you A, because they think that's what's gonna help them win. There's no guarantee they're not just gonna go right back to B, because they're politicians. That's what politicians do. it's, labels are a dangerous thing. So you just gotta be careful. People, they don't
Desiree ep11 (1:09:39)
And you know.
Chris Bevolo (1:09:53)
put their finger in the wind and go, ooh, you know, there's a real push toward progressives in a lot of these elections I just mentioned. So I'm gonna start sounding like that. ⁓
And it's, you just gotta be thoughtful. No matter where you land on this.
Desiree ep11 (1:10:10)
And much like, you know, the talk around like, okay, like get involved, like, you know, I'm going to help register people to vote. I'm going to drive people to the polls or have you something else you can do. You know, if, this is a skill set, if you don't want to get out there like that is
you know, write up those voting guys for folks. I feel like I haven't seen that. And granted, I've been like living all over the country for like 5,000 years. But you know, if you're savvy, like pull out the key points of like what you know matters to your community and just create essentially that cheat sheet to help folks navigate. Like, well, what does all of this actually mean? Because on the debates, on the thing people are, honey, we're just saying stuff. Like you said, they're gonna say whatever, but like look at what they actually put.
Chris Bevolo (1:10:30)
Ooh, yeah.
Desiree ep11 (1:10:53)
on their site, like have that person that is able to kind of decipher that, you know, for you. Cause like, I don't know, maybe because of AI, we might be losing some of those like critical thinking skills, but if that is your skill, do so for your community.
Chris Bevolo (1:11:04)
Well, to be true,
where are those? I love that because the last couple of elections, I've really tried to vote for things like city council and school board. And good luck trying to find the real positions of those candidates, right? Because what I'm trying to do, and I'll just admit it is, I'm trying to find the moms of liberty out there and vote against them because I think they're crazy people. They're crazy people, but they don't...
on their little profiles, they don't say, I'm part of mom's illiteracy. They just say like, I believe in parental rights and blah, blah. And you can try to decipher, but we have friends who have kids in the school district and they're like, this person supports, they know, cause they're in the mix. But I shouldn't have to have a neighbor who's close to the school system to be able to figure that out. I should be able to go and see what do these people really stand for? Again, no matter where you're at in your voting.
You may like Moms of Liberty and what they stand for, and you should be able to figure that out. So I'd love, I didn't know those things existed. I search and I search and it's just super, super, it's usually filled out by the candidates and they all sound the same at that level. They're trying to like not offend anybody.
Desiree ep11 (1:12:08)
Yeah.
Yeah.
I will say in my Nevada days, it was the LGBTQ plus community that would pull that together. There were some very politically savvy, savvy folks in that community that would draw that up and then it would be distributed by the various magazines. Remember magazines ⁓ and monthlies and weeklies and all that. So shout out to Q Vegas magazine and the Las Vegas bugle.
Chris Bevolo (1:12:25)
Mmm.
Desiree ep11 (1:12:40)
and all those different places that were that was found and shared. Like, let's get back to that like all over the place. So, but.
Chris Bevolo (1:12:47)
Yeah, and you can't even trust, if you're a Democrat, you can't even trust your parties, because they'll just say like, check for this person. You're like, but what does this person stand for? Just because you support them. If the Democratic Party is saying support this person, I'm now more skeptical of them than I would be of somebody running against them. That's how far they've alienated me, right? ⁓ So I'd love to see more in depth.
more in-depth like data and information on that stuff. Maybe that's something we can start building again, because the midterms are a good 10 months away. 10 months? No, Jesus, how long? Eight months? I can't do math. Eight plus three is 11. Eight months. Probably seven months, closer to seven. Yeah. All right. Well, we should probably, if people didn't know our political persuasions, they know.
Desiree ep11 (1:13:34)
A little shy, a little shy of eight months, yeah.
Chris Bevolo (1:13:45)
I think that was probably obvious. I've not been hiding mine since I left my career, left my neutral career where you can't say things that you wanna say. I can do that nowadays. It's fun.
Desiree ep11 (1:13:47)
obvious.
love that
for you.
Chris Bevolo (1:14:00)
And it's nice as long as I don't step in it. I step in about once every fourth statement, so I'm working on it. All right, let's wrap. Thank you. I think you, appreciate your patience with me on some of these. And this was another one where I think you helped me through this.
Desiree ep11 (1:14:23)
Well, happy to do that. Although you know that I hate talking politics, ⁓ but I love talking history and looking at like, what does history teach us? So I'll always go that angle, but yeah, let's see what happens. Get involved.
Chris Bevolo (1:14:38)
I'm
reading so many history books now, it's not even funny. I can't even keep up with them all. I have one, two, three history books going right now at the same time. And they're all fascinating and I want to read them all now. So.
Desiree ep11 (1:14:53)
Now you have
the time.
Chris Bevolo (1:14:54)
I do have the time, but I can't get through all of them. So I have to focus anyway. Um, enough about my history. You're the history. You're the history buff. I'm just the, I like reading about history. So history, we should do a history podcast as that's what this is supposed to be. Right. Pasha. All right. Fair enough. Uh, yes, we got to wrap. We're gonna wrap for real. Thank you. And thank everybody for listening or watching us. Hopefully this has helped you cope in some way.
Desiree ep11 (1:15:10)
We're going to be a little more specific. Yeah. Parsley. All right. Let's wrap.
Chris Bevolo (1:15:24)
with the world around us or the world in two years from now ⁓ when things like harm reduction will really matter. Please like and subscribe to the podcast on iTunes. It helps us ensure we can get this out to more people. It turns out the more people that rank us and give us five stars, the more spread we get from Apple. So please give us those five stars. Visit www.bearing287.com or follow me on Substack to access
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