Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
A faith-forward podcast for people who love Jesus but also love being honest about how weird and wonderful life can be. Hosts Kerrye and Jill tell stories about the Bible, talk about their faith, and dig into what it looks like to follow God through the ordinary chaos of everyday, imperfect life. Real conversations. Real stories. No pretending to have it all together. Pull up a chair, turn the page, and let's go.
Welcome to chapter and verse.
Where people come on and
tell their real stories.
Faith, failure, redemption, and the
occasional Lord, what are you doing
moment, some inspiring, some messy,
and some that probably should have
come with a warning label because
through every chapter of every
story, God is still writing and
he's not afraid of a little chaos.
This is Jill and Kerrye.
Let's turn the page.
Oh, okay.
Well, today we're here
with the Ryan Taylor.
Woo.
The Ryan Taylor.
I'm so excited to have you.
I'm excited not, this is awesome
to be confused with Ryan Taylor.
Yeah.
Just an average.
Anytime I tell somebody my email
address, they're like, say that again.
The, and I go, not the fake,
but the real Ryan Taylor.
Yeah.
You're just preparing
for when you make it.
I, yeah, that's it.
When you have to, you know, I'm
only 45 years in authenticate.
Yeah, exactly.
I'm almost there, guys.
Yeah, you've almost arrived.
Fingers crossed.
Soon, soon.
Okay.
Well, um, for those who don't
know the real Ryan Taylor, just
tell us something about yourself
before we jump into this chapter.
Oh, there's a lot of hats that I wear.
Uh, some people may know me anytime I
meet somebody new or see somebody and
I'm like, I recognize you from somewhere.
I just can't place.
Is it from church?
Is it from tech?
Like, what, what group do we run
in that I might know you from?
So there are a lot of hats that
I do wear, uh, professionally.
I've, I've been at Arkansas Tech
for, this is shortly, almost
21 years now at Arkansas Tech.
Wow.
As a, I know, I know.
As your job or just there?
No, no.
I was there five years prior, yeah.
As a student.
And I took the five year route.
Uh, I, I waited that last year to,
I only had like a couple credits.
I could have graduated on time, but.
I had the opportunity to make a
feature film, so I'm like, yes, we're
gonna stick, I'm gonna take that,
we're gonna stick around for that.
I'm not gonna be 1920
forever, so let's mm-hmm.
Let's, let's do that.
So, that was smart.
But yeah, I, I love what I get to do.
I have a video production
company on the side.
Been doing that for 25 years,
and, uh, I'm a husband, I'm a dad.
Those are my favorite things.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, that I get to do.
And I'm also like a worship
pastor and associate pastor at,
at a church in Luton, Arkansas.
That nobody, nobody knows.
Realize, every time I pass Luton,
like on my way to Branson or whatever,
I'm like, and they drive this far.
Yeah, it's, I could do
it with my eyes closed.
Yeah, I bet.
My brother drove every single day.
He went to Arkansas Tech as an undergrad
to get his engineering degree and he
drove every single day that that route.
Five times.
Yeah.
But that was when gas was like a dollar.
It was 69 cents, 70 cents max.
I literally remember when.
I, I mean, we knew you could grab change
from like the cushions of your car.
Yes.
Or the gas, and get like three
gallons of gas with just the change.
And then I remember when it hit like a
dollar and 10 cents, I remember when it
hit a dollar and people lost their minds.
Yeah.
We were floored.
That was one of those, but then it
like a dollar and 10 cents, the local
radio station was like 1 0 5 0.5,
and so they did.
Oh, like gas for 1 0 5 while we
and cars lined up down the street.
It was ridiculous.
And now I'm that folks,
look at where we are.
I know, exactly.
That's crazy.
Okay, well let's just jump in Yeah.
And tell us the chapter you're
gonna talk about in your life.
Well, it, it is a very difficult
chapter, but in, in hindsight, when
you look at these difficult chapters,
you see God's grace, his faithfulness.
Mm-hmm.
So evident and, uh, I, every time we
sing this song, um, goodness of God at
our church, um, the part where it says,
um, all my life you've been faithful.
Like, I, I can't look back
at any part of my life.
Even the worst times that I felt like
was the worst times I can look back then
and be grateful and thankful because
of God's faithfulness through them.
So I wanna share this chapter.
A lot of people may not know
this chapter, and it is, it's a
tough chapter, but like I said.
God's faithfulness and his grace
and his tremendous blessing at
the end of it is, is incredible.
So when I get any chance I, I tell
people about it, a lot of people may
not know, okay, I'm ready for it.
Me too.
So, so Leah and I, if you guys
know Leah, she is my best friend.
She's hilarious.
She is everything that I'm not.
So she's a rock star.
We met in college and got
married and, uh, shortly after.
We were married about three years.
It all she ever wanted to
do was be a wife and a mom.
So we were like, all right,
let's, let's have kids.
And I love kids.
I was involved in children's ministry
and we were youth pastors at the
time, and it's like, so, mm-hmm.
So this is what we wanted our own.
And one vision that I always, so I grew
up in a southern gospel family and we
traveled every weekend and it was all, it
was literally my cousins, my grandparents,
my parents, my brothers sister.
No, I don't have a sister.
What am I talking about?
My cousins felt like it.
And so we, we traveled every weekend.
We would travel all over the state.
During the summers we
would go on like tours.
We had a tour bus.
It was incredible.
Some of my favorite memories.
So I wanted that.
Yeah.
So after, after my grandpa passed away,
we kind of, we kind of died down a little
bit on how much we went out and traveled.
And my dad's a pastor, so we just
kind of stayed there at the church.
I had a, a Christian rock group
for several years, so I got to tour
and do that, but I've always wanted
to do that with just my family.
Mm-hmm.
To just be like the Taylor Band.
I don't, I don't know, it's cheesy, but
that was a, that was a goal of mine.
So, yeah, we, we talked about it and it's
like, let, let's, let's have a family.
So in 2007.
And Leah got pregnant.
Um, it was a very difficult pregnancy, uh,
throughout, um, towards the latter half.
She was in her third tri trimester
and, um, she developed preeclampsia.
And so it, it was a very difficult time.
We ended up going to UAMS and
while we were there at UAMS, um,
we were hoping for the best, but.
Hm.
We ended up losing our baby
third, third trimester.
I did not know she was that far.
I had no idea.
Far lie idea.
Yes.
Um, we, we lost her.
There was a, um, let's
see what's it called?
Um, a rupture in the placenta.
Okay.
And so we, we lost Addison
and I mean, she was full term.
We held her.
Uh, it, it was, it was a moment.
Uh, easily the darkest moment
that we ever walked through.
And, um, so that's tough.
And you immediately wanna be like, why?
You're just asking why, God,
what is the purpose of this?
And, and a lot of, there was a
lot of people that were trying to
be our strength during that time.
And, uh, I mean, God's not
afraid of our questions.
Yeah.
And we, we were both like, why,
why, why is this happening?
Why are we having to walk through this?
And we, we truly had no idea why.
Um.
But one day we, we will know why and, uh.
Uh, truly we, we can point to God's
faithfulness because shortly after, like
I said, we walked through a dark time and,
um, we found a doctor that kind of walked
through us through that dark time with us.
Uh, Dr.
Vicki Henderson, um, she was wonderful.
She was a Christian.
She shared so much encouragement
for us during that, and she
was like, let's try again.
Like, don't, don't, don't stop here.
This, it doesn't end.
Your story does not end.
Mm-hmm.
This is kind of the first chapter.
Yeah.
And we couldn't see it at that time.
So anyway, we, she walked
through a lot of stuff with us.
Shortly after we got pregnant.
Uh, we came in for an ultrasound and, uh.
Of course you, your fear is like,
are we gonna have to do this again?
Mm-hmm.
That's the number one
thing you're thinking.
You're like, yeah, I'm gonna have
to walk through this dark time
again, because it was super dark.
Yeah.
Uh, but we're in the ultrasound room and
the doctor that was in there, Leah is
doing the ultrasound and I can't remember
how far along exactly she, she would
probably be mad at me for not knowing,
but, um, enough to be able to tell.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
You're pregnant and, uh.
So she's like looking around
and she's checking things
and she's being very quiet.
And so we're like, oh, no, what's wrong?
What?
And Leah just said, are you
about to tell me they're twins?
And I was like, that,
wouldn't that be hilarious?
And, and the doctor looks over and
she's like, there's two in there.
And I'm telling you, and I'm about to cry.
Like I, oh.
You've never seen so much
joy in, and I mean, I did.
I think I did.
I jumped up and I was like,
yeah, like thrown my fist.
And he's like, calm down.
But to, for God to go, Hey, I know.
And Addison will never be replaced, right?
Yeah.
Ever.
And I cannot wait to see her.
Right.
And I will, I'll have that joy of being
with her and seeing her, but God's favor
and going, Hey, you know what, here's two.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah,
he's so, he's so faithful.
He is.
Listen, um, we need to
get tissues in here.
I know, buddy.
This is the second week in a row that
I've been like, oh yeah, we should
have tissues, but we don't next time.
And, and, sorry, just you've got sleeves.
That's what they're gonna work.
But truly, just last
weekend, and I told Leah so.
Um, every single weekend we lead worship
at our church and Aaliyah is the worship
leader and I kind of direct the band.
I'll sing occasionally, but I look over,
there's my wife, there's my two babies.
Yeah.
Involved in worship, playing
drums and key, and it's like the
vision that I had all my life.
To live it every single weekend and
just go, God, your, your grace and mercy
and kindness and love for me, I can't.
Mm-hmm.
I can't even fathom like
how blessed I truly am.
So to take the darkest time of my
life and God turned it for good and
just to live it every single weekend.
I'm so grateful and
thankful for that chapter.
'cause I can look back now and, and
flip a few pages forward and I'm like,
man, I'm the richest man in the world.
Yeah.
To see that.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, get it together man.
Sorry.
Me do.
Yeah.
Um, so when you went through.
That process of losing Addison.
Um, I know, I mean, I've been through
miscarriage too, but how did people
around you respond and how, what,
like, I just wanna know, just for my
own, because I, how I handled things.
Did you get upset with
how people reacted, like.
What was that it?
It was kind of hit and miss.
We had some, some family that were very
respectful and it's like, if you want
to talk about it, we'll talk about it.
But then there are others that say
those cliche things of like, God
needed another angel, or those kind of
things, and it would just make us mad.
And I'm like, yeah.
You don't know what you're saying.
Mm-hmm.
And we had to be like a little gracious
and go, okay, you're just trying to help.
We understand that.
'cause we were involved in a church,
we were youth pastor of a church.
So the church, you know, there
was a lot of older ladies in the
church that just wanted to help.
Yeah.
And, and say things like that.
And we're like, no, we, we,
Leah and I are very like.
Give us like, just the honesty, right?
Like be honest with us.
And, uh, we had a, we had a lot of family.
We had a dear friend of ours
that, uh, she was a nurse and she
like walked through it with us.
Honestly, it's like the, the
technicalities of what happened,
what's going on, and, and, and
I didn't even talk about this.
Leah almost actually died.
The doctor came in during that,
we had already lost Addison.
So Leah was there for three full days
before she ended up delivering Addison.
So I'm in there by myself.
Yeah, with all the questions,
with all the struggles.
And, uh, the doctor come in and
was like, you need to prepare that.
Leah, she was so sick, like her kidneys
and her livers started shutting down.
I was like, you need to
prepare yourself for Leah.
Might not even make it.
Ugh.
So I'm like, what?
But I did, I had that dear friend,
her name's Trina Devo, and she,
she's actually, um, a nurse
practitioner here in, in Darnell.
But man, what she did for us, uh, because
she, she understood like what the word
says, and she also knew the medical stuff.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
And so she just walked through us
and was honest with us so that we,
we needed that and we love that.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Um, but Well, God's not afraid
of the medical profession at all.
No, not at, he designed it all.
Not at all.
So, but like, like you
were asking like there.
You know, there were people
with good intentions.
Yeah.
Uh, but we just kind of had to
overlook their good intentions
'cause they don't know what to say.
And I mean, it is an awkward
thing because it's, but a few
years before, like my parents'
generation, they don't talk about,
they did not talk about that at all.
At all.
I mean, come to find out, there were two
or three ladies in our church that, like,
full term pregnancies, the same situation.
They had a baby that passed away.
Like, and, and we didn't know it.
And we knew them very well.
And so they just didn't talk about it.
And with us, we, we want to
talk it out and, and discuss it.
But, uh, part of that chapter also, uh,
shortly after, because we had it, because
not a lot of people talked about it, to
deal with that struggle to, you know,
work through the, the process of grief.
Leah actually started an organ, a
nonprofit organization called Share Hope.
That dealt with that specifically?
Yeah, it was a few years after, but man,
in that part of our life, all of the
ladies that came in, the connections that
came in and just wanted to talk about
it, just could sit around and discuss it.
Like, Hey, I wanna talk about my child.
And yeah, she started that
organization and that.
Part of our life was
such a great time too.
Uh, and it was very much God
ordained to, to where we could help
others deal with that situation.
And, uh, she just did an incredible thing
and I'm like, how can I support you?
I can make some graphics.
I can.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
But I could, you know, if help
host events, I'll a theme song.
I'll, I'll pour tea if we need to,
like, whatever you need me to do.
And that, that was a very special time.
But when, when we had the
girls, it was, it just.
An amazing blessing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
To have that.
And they're 16.
That's crazy.
They're beautiful.
About to be 17.
Very, very talented.
They're so great.
Yeah.
Like, I mean, just you, you wanna
be around them because they're funny
and like you and Leah, you know?
Well, yeah, Leah, they got
all of Leah's humor for sure.
Yeah.
They just, I mean, I'm not
close with them at all.
Like, I just see them peripherally,
but when I see them, I'm like,
they, they don't appear to
take themselves too seriously.
No, no.
They definitely can laugh at themselves
and make sure that people feel
comfortable, and I think that that's
such an important quality to, to nurture.
Yeah.
In someone is to just, yeah.
Like you, you want to be around them.
You feel comfortable around them, and
the world needs more people like that.
It, it's a gift.
And Leah, it is Leah.
I mean, every person she meets, uh,
she ends up telling her whole life
story because she has that talent
of just being good at talking.
Yeah.
And she's people, she is
the best communicator.
And, uh, like I'm, I'm thankful
that I have her and she's taught
me so much about, about that
next level of communication.
Just, she, I think she said
like 90% of all problems can be
handled with good communication.
Yeah.
And she's a hundred percent right.
Yeah.
And she's passed that on to
our girls, uh, of, you know,
boys coming around or whatever.
Mm-hmm.
And talking things out.
And our girls are just overly
honest and I'm like, good for you.
Yeah.
Yep.
Good for you.
You're doing great.
Yeah.
So how do you feel when boys come
around and, uh, because they're 16,
they're, they're 16, about to be 17 and
they're beautiful, so they really are.
You, you just, and, and that,
that's all Leah, like, she,
I mean, they're gorgeous, so.
Mm-hmm.
I have to expect Yeah.
Boys are gonna come around.
Yeah.
And I flirted when I was younger,
I flirted with every single
girl that was ever around.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was just part of my
nature and I'm like.
I actually know what these boys'
intentions are and like good luck at
their game because I was the game master.
Mm-hmm.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, exactly.
So I, I've got that and I'm, I'm trying
to, to teach them how, how to handle
it and I'm trying my best not to just
completely protect my babies from Yeah.
From all those, yeah.
Ornery, horrible boys.
But, but no, I, I'm, I'm proud of them.
Yeah.
Uh, I couldn't be more proud.
So, um, going back to the miscarriage, um.
I do think it's, you know, I'm glad
that she started that because I feel
like it's not still, I feel like
people don't realize this was a person.
Mm-hmm.
And you know, at funerals
we talk about that person.
Right.
And we remember that
person from that point on.
And I feel like, you know, you had,
'cause I've had three miscarriages,
I know I had plans for all those kids
even, but I wasn't as far along as Leah.
But yeah, I didn't even realize
till the first one, I was like.
I didn't realize how much I'd
planned like way into their life.
Right.
Just thoughts, you know?
And so all those plans vanish
with nobody really, you know,
acknowledging, except for me and
Bobby, you know, that and my family.
But like no one knows like,
yeah, that person is gone.
Right?
And, and you try not to make it.
A an awkward thing for others of where
you always wanna talk about, sometimes
you don't want to talk about it.
Yeah.
Sometimes you do want to talk about it and
you kind of have to, and Lee and I have
really leaned on each other through that.
Um, because, you know, we came home to
an empty house that wasn't the plan.
An empty house full of stuff
for preparing for baby.
Right.
Like my gosh.
Yeah.
So hard.
And, and, and the support system we had.
I'm so thankful for it.
Like the, at the, at the core, like I had
family and like I talked about, we had
Trina that was there for us, but there
was just those few that we only wanted to.
Talk about Addison with, uh, the
things that we are missing, but through
that dark time, Leah and I leaned on
each other, like, and our marriage
was, it had to be like, we had to be
each other's strength through that.
And I deal differently than she would.
Right.
And we kind of had to give grace with each
other and we just learned so much about
each other during that time and, and we
fell in love more during the darkest time.
And that's a weird thing to say, but
truly, uh, and that's what a marriage is
like where I'm weak, she's strong, and
where she's weak, I should be strong.
And it, it really strengthened that bond.
And then to celebrate the incredible gift
that God gave us with just doubling that
blessing was, was just so incredible.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And you can't, you know, I'm just
sitting there thinking, how much
would you take for that experience?
Like if someone said, I could erase that
experience for you, the whole thing.
I, I wouldn't, yeah, I
wouldn't change a thing.
And when, when students come in and I'm,
I'm training my student workers, I'm
like, listen, your biggest mistakes are
gonna be your best learning opportunities.
100%.
Do not be afraid of failure.
Yeah.
Failure is just learning.
Right.
And, and the thing is, is like
I want you to know that I'm
here to support you through.
Your your big mistakes, your losses.
Yeah.
Uh, so you have that
support system to know that.
And even in our biggest
mistakes or failures, we have a
father that's just like there.
Yep.
And he's like, I didn't do this to you.
But now that, you know, sin is in
the world and we have to deal with
sin, and death is a part of sin.
Yep.
And yes, God did not make
that happen, but it happened.
And here's how I'm gonna walk
through it and here's how
we're going to come through it.
Learning on the other side.
Way more things than, than
you could ever imagine.
So, yeah, he, he's incredible.
So what would you say to the
person who said, well, he allowed
it, that that's a tough thing.
And it's like, and my dad tried to
kind of explain that with the whole
sinful nature, like, sin is in the
world, we have to deal with it.
It he knows more.
Then, I mean, you're trying
to explain a sovereign God.
Yeah.
I, I'm, I'm an idiot.
Just, I can't even grasp the concept
of time and how he understands the long
term and would I ever fully appreciate.
What I would have in the future if I
didn't deal or struggle with, uh, if
we never walk through anything dark, we
truly can't appreciate the light and,
um, I dunno, I can't, I am not God.
So, yeah, I, I can't explain
it, but I mean, truly I'm
thankful for the dark times.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I just feel like.
God's playing a whole
different game than we are.
Like he's playing chess and we're
playing pickup six, and to say
like, well, why did he do this?
He's playing a whole different game.
Yeah.
Like I don't understand the rules,
I don't understand the board, I
don't understand the pieces, I
don't understand the strategy.
I'm doing what I'm doing.
And occasionally I go, what?
What's that?
Yeah.
And then we don't get it just off I go.
I trust him.
But yeah, I trust him because
time, after time, after time, he
has proven his faithfulness to me.
Yeah.
And I can't not trust
and, and recently we.
We walked through, uh, a situation with
Lucy and I'll just touch on her briefly,
but, uh, she had had a nodule on the top
of her throat for a long time and it was
getting bigger and bigger, or it looked
like it was getting bigger and it was hard
for her to swallow and things like that.
So we had it checked out and they just
said that there was kind of a nodule
on the outside of her throat and they
gave it a medical term and they said,
we can take it out with surgery.
Well, a part of that you have to
test for any kind of cancerous.
Mm-hmm.
You know, whatever cells.
Yeah.
And so they, we went through the surgery
and that was a whole other thing.
We, it was very stressful
and nerve wracking.
Yeah.
And, uh, so she had her throat sliced
open, which is crazy, and had it removed
and they had to test it for cancer.
Well, they called us and said it had
cancerous cells in it, and immediately
your mind goes, what are you doing?
God?
Whatcha doing?
Yeah.
But then again, it's like.
Why would we not trust you
through this situation?
We had all of our friends, and I think I
text y'all and was like, let, let's pray.
Let's get her on the list.
And, and I knew back there, you know, the
enemy was trying to say, oh, it's cancer.
You're gonna lose another daughter.
You know, those kind of stupid things
that he says and puts in your mind.
But back in the back I knew, uh, God's
faithfulness and so they tested it.
And, uh, or they actually, well they
did, the cancer was contained within that
nodule completely right within the nodule.
So they went in and tested everything
else, looked for any other nodules, any,
any kind of signs of cancer, and they're
like, oh no, there's nothing in there.
And I'm like.
I knew it.
I knew it like, like God was like,
Hey, he's gonna try this out.
I'm gonna wrap it up.
Yeah.
And then I'm gonna make
it real uncomfortable.
So you make sure you get rid of this.
And what they, they even
told us that it was probably
formed when she was an infant.
Wow.
And that was just completely contained.
God just was like, ah, I don't know what
you're doing, but I just gonna contain
this and we're gonna get this outta here.
And again, his faithless, and
now she has something that she
can say, this is where God Yep.
That that trial and that test
is now a testimony for her.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, it is.
It reminds me of the story of Job and
I really love the story of Job and
how, well, I mean, in that situation,
you know, God picked the fight.
He was like, wait, what about Job?
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, but it was for his glory.
But job's, uh, you know, furthering of his
faith and, you know, when you can't see
the hand of God, you can trust his heart.
Yeah.
You know, like you have
to, I mean, all through it.
Job.
Bless the name of the Lord.
But he also questioned him.
He did.
He also complained, and I had a
wife that was like, curse God died.
Exactly.
No.
Never says what happened to her.
Like what?
Yeah.
I don't know.
I heard Tim Hawkins
making a joke about it.
He's like, she was the worst one of all.
It was like she was easily like
his biggest critic and Yeah.
Just mm-hmm.
She wasn't helping any at all.
No, she wasn't.
And you know, it's the first book written.
Of the Old Testament.
So they didn't, even though it's
not the first book in your Bible.
Right.
But they didn't have a script to go by.
Well, we're sitting here reading it,
going, your friends are horrible.
Yeah.
And you know, why can't
you see God in this?
But they didn't have anything.
They were put on the
stage with no nothing.
Yeah.
And we're watching it.
Yeah.
Knowing the end.
But they didn't, yeah, they
didn't know what was going on.
So we're easy to jump
on there and be like.
Come on.
It's God, it's gonna work out.
Yeah, but he didn't know.
It's evident for me.
Um, one of my favorite
scriptures is John three and 30.
Uh, he must increase, but I must decrease.
Every story, every situation always
points to God's faithfulness.
Mm-hmm.
And I can look at that and go,
it had nothing to do with me.
'cause clearly I, I deserve the worst.
But he's so faithful.
And I can point that.
Yeah.
That was God.
There there's no other explanation
other than God's faithfulness.
Yeah.
And I, I try to make that
a point in everything I do,
it's nothing that I can do.
'cause we can't earn his, his love.
Yeah.
And, uh, it, it, it's all him.
Yeah.
I mean, that's awesome story
to have in your family.
Like a, yeah, like almost at
the beginning, very beginning
of your, you know, marriage.
Yeah.
It took place and now
you can, it's like a.
Rock you can look back to
this is where God, yes.
It, it is a monument that, like I said,
every weekend I get to turn and look
at those three and what's crazy and my
parents are still, you know, my dad's the
pastor and my mom sings, my cousin sings.
So it still is like that.
It's family tradition.
Yeah.
And, uh, I, I mean, I'm just giddy and
every time I, I've come off the stage
from worship service, I'm just like.
I'm living the dream that I had, and
it is only to God that I can point
to for, for him being faithful.
And I want to do everything I can to show
my gratitude and love and thankfulness
back to him for, for giving me.
And I, like I said, I don't deserve
it, but I can look and look at that
monument of, of God's faithfulness.
Yeah, ma'am.
And he is.
He is.
He is so good.
So what is your, so we
always ask this, um.
But I'm gonna ask yours
a little differently.
Okay.
What's do you think the
funniest story in the Bible is?
Oh, the funniest story.
Usually we say what's your favorite
and what you, what would you
wanna go back and watch and watch?
Uh, but I wanna know what you,
and if you need what you is
the funniest need a minute.
We can edit the pause out, but, okay.
Uh, and I may get it wrong, but I'm
pretty sure who was it that was, everybody
was making fun of his, his bald head.
Was it?
Uh, Elisha.
Elisha.
Yep.
The kids.
The kids were making fun of him and
he is like, he's like, you know what?
Oh yeah.
Bears.
Bears boom.
Bears beats Battlestar Galactica.
Yeah.
And it's so outrageous.
Yeah.
And hilarious.
All at the same time.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's like, don't come at me bro.
And then bears boom.
Do you think that was
a jerky kind of move?
'cause we are doing a series
on jerks of the Bible.
Oh.
And he did pop in my head for that because
he called out bears because of these kids.
Yeah, it said youth.
So you're thinking these are,
I mean, I'm not teenagers.
How old was he?
He, yeah, I know how those boys are.
I don't know.
I dunno.
Or I know how you know that age is.
Um, I was a youth pastor, so I get it.
I know how horrible those kids can be.
And just also brutally honest.
Well, and then also brutally
honest, but also when they find
something that they, they recognize
Oh, that, that struck the nerve.
That's the button.
Yeah.
They will not let it go.
No, they just no.
Pick and pick and pick.
It's, it's true.
They find one inkling of weakness.
Yeah.
And for him it was his baldness.
Yeah.
That's pretty funny.
So would you wanna go back and watch that?
I think that's pretty good.
Yeah.
I really, you wanna, you wanna
watch the kids get slaughtered
with bears make or you just wanna
like watch them make fun of it?
I, I am a, I, I'm a fan of
the genre of horror films.
Mm-hmm.
Oh, okay.
I've made a few myself.
I actually made some spiritual thrillers.
That's what I'm calling, I want to see.
Yeah.
And yeah, you probably know some
of the actors in 'em, but the last
one I made that's like a spiritual
thriller was like several years ago.
It was 2011 was the last one that I
did as spiritual thriller because, uh,
I had an organization of churches that
we didn't do, like the main assembly
of God things that there were smaller
churches and they didn't, they felt.
Too big of a number.
So I kind of created this organization
of churches that we would do
church camps and conferences.
Mm-hmm.
And so it was called Illuminate
And uh, we would come together and
I would always make a, a video.
Like a film, like a short film.
Yeah.
And it was always like
a spiritual thriller.
One dealt with the rapture and
it was like, how many demons can
we actually put in this thing?
I made one called Metamorphosis that
was like a flash forward of seeing like.
After the rapture happened, here's
the things that could go on.
And I made one called Admonition,
uh, that Whit Piker was in.
Him and Alisa both were in it.
It's, it was so much fun.
So I like slasher movies.
The very first movie that I
was in was a slasher flick.
It was called Screech.
It was a spoof of scream.
That's hilarious.
As a college kid.
And so, yeah, spoiler
alert, I was the killer.
Yeah.
I think I have seen.
Some of that.
Is it on YouTube?
It's on YouTube.
Okay.
Had, and it, it was
filmed back in like 99.
Uh, so the quality is, so,
the quality is outstanding.
It was recorded on SVHS, if you know what
SVHS is a don't higher quality than vhs.
Just barely Okay.
Enough.
Like that's who the news media,
they would use SVHS back in the day.
And then, so I got to live that whole
process of non-linear to digital.
Nice.
And so, yeah, it was, it
was a cool, cool time.
So, but I made films all
throughout at that time.
Slash So you wouldn't have minded the
Grizzly Bear attack on No, I would
actually make, I would make that,
I would, I wanna direct that film.
Yeah.
Rather than watch it.
It's like, will you direct that film?
Yeah.
If anybody comes calling,
who can we get this called?
I'm not gonna Pastor Mike
who can send applications to,
I wasn't gonna say it, but.
I mean, pastor Mike makes
an excellent, bad guy too.
Oh, he used to have priest in the place.
Oh, he's a good at it.
Oh, great villain.
He's like the nicest
guy would do anything.
Anything for you that
plays such a great villain.
That's how you know that they're, you
know, they're not typecast necessarily
because they can, they're diverse.
Yeah.
But like, yeah, the nicest guy play
plays the worst characters ever.
So yeah, he, he, I'm doing the oil shop
in the play, and so he came up to me.
The first practice and he was like,
what is this snake juice snake?
And I was like, no.
The Wiseman shop here, you can have
the Frankie's like it is snake.
Don't buy from her.
So is there like a, like stories
within the stories that he's alive?
Oh yeah.
In my opinion, yes.
A hundred percent.
They're the best story.
You, you have to be in the cast.
I mean, aside from you.
Yeah.
You don't know 'em un unless
if you're involved in it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But there's always little
tiny side quests happening.
Oh yeah.
I love that.
Like one year a teenager.
I didn't remember who it was.
I can see his face, but I
can't remember his name.
But he decided that he was the
manager of all the shops and
he came, gosh, to each one.
Gosh.
Like you're late on your rent.
And I was like, I was watching him.
I wasn't a shopkeeper at that time.
And I was like, this is brilliant.
Yeah.
I love it.
So there's room for improv.
Oh, as long as it is.
Mm-hmm.
It kind of falls biblically, I guess.
Right?
Or you can't say the modern words,
but you can, like he actually
looked up some phrases and.
He didn't say rant.
It was something else.
And I was like, okay.
I mean, this kid's going places, so you
can't be like, I saw you on Facebook.
Yeah, right.
Yeah.
Okay.
I mean, you can during practice
you could, but yeah, you could, but
everybody would be on high alert.
We need to get this guy outta here.
Yeah.
So right now, what is
your favorite scripture?
Oh, John 10.
10.
The thief comes to
steal, kill, and destroy.
It's good news or it's
bad news and good news.
I, I love that.
Mm-hmm.
Juxtaposed.
Yeah.
We, we realize that yeah, the
enemy's out to destroy us, but
he has come to give us life.
Not just life.
That'd be great.
Yeah.
And we know that's great, but more
abundantly just speaks volumes to
who he is and who his character is.
And, um, yeah.
We have to live in a world with, with
bad and evil, but man, just to stand
on that promise that he's come to come
to give his life and abundant life.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Because if I want to live
life, I want it to be abundant.
For sure.
Doesn't if even the option.
Yeah.
Doesn't, who doesn't.
Exactly.
And so that, that's a promise.
And Jesus said that so.
Yeah.
I, I, I stand on that promise.
Yeah.
I think that that's, you know, wise.
Mm-hmm.
Ah, yeah.
Old, old man saying, old
man says, well, you are 45.
45.
I mean, I know most people think that,
well, I, I'll say this about Leah.
Every time her and the girls
are together, they're like.
Those sisters.
Yeah.
Like who's the old man with,
with the, the daughters.
And so who's the old man
with the hotties over there?
Yeah.
Yeah.
But yeah, she, she, she
keeps me young for sure.
Yeah.
Well, um, we do wanna have you
back sometime because I want
to like, delve into, you know.
Some blurrier things like Yes.
Oh, there's plenty of blur.
If we, if we wanna get
blurry, we can get Yeah, I do.
I want to, yes.
There's a, there's a
lot, a lot of stories.
Uh, you talk about my book, you know,
the, the stuff that I got to share today.
I've heard you some share some,
and that's, oh my goodness.
And if I were to, I would
not mind writing a memoir.
Of sorts.
You should, because Lee and I say this
often, like there are so many lives
that we've lived inside of this span.
Yeah.
Yep.
And we've been married for 20 plus years
and it's like how many, it's like, I
completely forgot about that chapter,
you know, that we were youth pastors.
That's a weird time in our
life or I, there's just so many
things and uh, it's fun isn't it?
To like kind of sit back and go, Hey,
do you remember when this happened?
And then just like, shift into
that moment and really contemplate.
What was happening and
what, what you know now.
Oh yeah.
What you would do different.
And you're like, do you remember how
ridiculous we were when we decided to
go and do blah, blah, blah, whatever.
Yeah.
And you're like, my goodness.
The dumbest.
The dumbest decision.
Dumbest decision.
But growing up as a a, you know.
Son of a pastor, you
probably have tons of stuff.
Oh man.
Yeah.
And I actually, I actually shared
this story at Sunday School, uh,
and it's kind of been a staple that
stuck with me as a preacher's kid.
Um, there was an older lady in our
church, so I'll, I'll keep this brief in.
I don't wanna say 92.
I.
DC talk, come out with
free at last album, Uhhuh.
And uh, there was a song on there called
Lean on Me and as a 12-year-old kid, or
11, I think it might have been 11, uh,
I was like, I wanna do this in church.
And so we actually had church or
youth rallies back in the day mm-hmm.
And a bunch of churches would come.
And I was like, I kind of formed this
group of people and I had a couple
singers and I was gonna be Toby Mack.
I'm, I'm the rapping of course, of course.
Love that.
So we did that song in church.
Okay.
And this was an invitation for the
whole church to come not only the
youth, but all the church came.
It was on a Saturday night.
We did that song, and we had a few
people get up and walk out on us.
Really?
Yes.
After the service I need too.
After the service.
It's ous, it's, yeah.
After the service, youngsters, a
lady who I respected and loved and
admired, came up to me and said.
I don't know what kind of world
you live in to think that it's
okay to sing songs like that in
church, but it's a distorted one.
Wow.
Oh my.
Did you say goodness?
That's why they make guitar
pedals and is four distortion.
I was like, it, it shocked me.
It threw me into a loop.
I.
Maybe I'm living in sin.
I don't know.
Of course, you know, the PK is the target.
Everybody's A comes off the PK
because you're supposed to be perfect.
You're supposed to know.
So that moment was a defining moment
for me to take that moment and go,
okay, my world is very distorted.
It doesn't look like anybody else's.
Exactly.
I'm gonna take this
moment, and you know what?
I'm gonna do everything I
can to broaden that stage.
Yeah, to reach those that are lost through
the music that I create exactly through,
through everything that I write and, and
I'm, I'm also a musician now, and I have
taken that point as an 11-year-old and my
first email address, guess what it was?
Distorted, distorted, world
distort, distorted world.
Oh, guess what My first album was called?
Distorted World.
Distorted World.
Yeah.
That's good.
So from then on, taking something
that was hurtful mm-hmm.
And using it for the glory of
God from that point forward.
Yeah.
And I, I look to that moment and
I see my email address, I see that
album, and I'm go, that was the start.
Mm-hmm.
Of something else.
And, and I, I didn't know what to do
with that information from that lady.
I was heartbroken.
I didn't even tell my
parents for a long time.
That lady came back to me and apologized.
She said, oh, did she?
She did.
Good for her.
It was a couple years later for, it was
actually for her right before she passed.
Wow.
And she said, you know, I'm
sorry, I shouldn't have said that.
That was not, that was me being carnal.
Just 'cause I didn't like
that music, but I'm sorry.
Don't ever take anything
like that to heart.
And I was like, good for her.
Yeah.
And so, yeah, that was
just a fun little part.
Part oh mean here.
I was part of that story.
She was like a serious punk.
And I was like, look at her.
Way to show her up, but that's awesome.
Yeah.
That I am happy to be Yeah.
Wrong.
Good for her about that.
Give her a high five when we get to, yeah.
So yeah, and she just set the trajectory
for me to be like, yeah, you know
what people, like, people that come
against you kind of get tough skin.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, that helped me, you know, as an
11-year-old, I was devastated, but
I'm like, let, let's use this as
fuel instead of, you know, just fire.
So yeah, it fueled me to, to keep
making music and, and writing and.
Expanding that stage.
That's awesome.
I like it.
Well, thank you so much.
You're very welcome.
Thank you for having me.
And we would love to have you back
and talk about some more chapters.
I'm always available.
Yeah.
Good, good.
Well thank you and we
will see you next time.
Thank you.
Yep.
Bye.