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Discover The Humanity of Homelessness, a podcast from Church at the Park that brings you honest, heartfelt conversations with people experiencing homelessness, community leaders, and staff.
John Marshall | 00:08
Welcome to the Humanity of Homelessness. I'm John Marshall, and this is a podcast from Church at the Park in Salem, Oregon. Since 2007, Church at the Park has created community with our neighbors living outside. And today we get to offer collaborative navigation, emergency sheltering, workforce development, and supported housing for our neighbors in need. In each episode, we hear from a member of our community who is experiencing or has experienced homelessness. We invite them to share their story and their own words so that they and we might remember their goodness, their courage, their hope, and their humanity. You can find this podcast wherever podcasts are found, and it is helpful to us if you subscribe and share episodes that inspire you. Thanks to everyone for tuning in and joining us as we celebrate good news in the hardest, most unexpected places. In today's episode, we get to hear from Bill. Bill is on staff with us as a host at our family shelter site. And he joined our team in May of this year. And since that time when he joined, he's made a significant impact on our community. Colleagues have shared that Bill is energetic and joyful in the most contagious sort of way, Bringing both a sense of humor and an eagerness to serve that makes the environment he inhabits light and safe for those around him. His ability to connect with our participants on site, including the very youngest, is obvious and natural, and the fruit of that is very clearly trust among all who know Bill. Bill loves playing video games, especially Call of Duty, and is a die-hard Detroit Lions fan. He carries wisdom about what it means to be human in the midst of hardship. I'm grateful he agreed to share his story. Bill, welcome to the podcast. How you doing? Thanks for being How are you today?
Bill Hardman | 01:49
Here. Thank you.
John Marshall | 01:51
Today is a day off for you, so what has been the agenda for today?
Bill Hardman | 01:55
Today was nap time.
John Marshall | 01:58
That's a good agenda. I like a good nap.
Well, Well, you are gracious for interrupting your nap to be here.
Bill Hardman | 02:02
If you wouldn't have woke me up, then I probably wouldn't have needed it. I'm glad you did, though.
John Marshall | 02:10
Yeah. Before we were... Starting the recording, we were chatting a little bit about some of what you got up to this weekend, and you were at the Hands Across the Bridge event in downtown Salem. I know very little about that event. I know some, but can you just explain what is that event? What were you doing there? What was the purpose of that.
Bill Hardman | 02:31
Gathering? Okay, the purpose was they had... Stretch across the bridge, everybody holding hands in, honor and remembrance of addicts that have passed away. And there's other... Reasons for it that I'm not attuned to, but that's what my In my mind, that's what it is for me. And really the only reason I wanted to go down there is to put my judge. My old judge from drug court in the tank. He was in the dunk tank. He was in the Yeah.
John Marshall | 03:04
Dunk tank.
Bill Hardman | 03:06
That was fun.
John Marshall | 03:07
That's excellent. And I'm so glad that an event exists like that where you get to, you know, put your drug court judge in a dunk tank and that it's all good and.
Bill Hardman | 03:16
Fine. I was wanting to get Melissa, which is the court clerk, because I always thought she was like the Nazi, you know, crazy lady because she was always mad at everybody, it seemed like. But she was just wanting people to get it, you know, and like... I got it pretty quick, but a lot of people try to fight it, you know, because they're not ready yet. And it's sad because when you see...
You know, the struggle that they go through. Trying to, It's so bright. It's kind of, then I understand why she gets mad, you know, now. I didn't at first, but I understand it now.
John Marshall | 03:55
Yeah, some of what you were sharing right before we started recording was... About your experience. And you know, In the world of homelessness and with drugs and understanding what it's like to have the world around you seem to be so demanding for your life to be different and the resistance that builds up to that sort of dynamic and what I... Noticing and you're sharing now is that there's something redemptive in your story about understanding how much work it takes. I... And how much support you need.
Bill Hardman | 04:33
Yeah, and you do. And that's a huge part of it, is the support.
You know, a lot of people think that, you know, like the way she would get angry... I've found that when people... Do like we do at Search the Park and just accept people for what they are and who they are and where they're at. That's like a major thing.
You know, it kind of freaks people out a little bit when they find out, hey, these people aren't mad at me because I went and got high. You know, they still feed me. They still let me come and stay in their shelter, you know, and then Eventually they start to get it.
And then this is what I've found. You know, you, when you're meeting somebody where they're at, They, they'll, come to where you... Not want them to be or where they need to be, you know?
And then either... They're ready or they're not ready.
John Marshall | 05:30
There's safety for the journey when you know that people are on your team and then against you.
Bill Hardman | 05:34
Yeah. Huge difference.
John Marshall | 05:36
Yeah. Well, I'm going to be really curious in asking more questions about your own experience with in recovery and as you found your own stability. And experienced homelessness, you know, the lessons that you learned through that whole process. Always the easiest way to get to that place, though, is to ask you just to share bits of your own story and where you come from and who you are.
Bill Hardman | 05:58
I got a lot of that. I'm 60 years old, so there's a huge story there. And 50 of those years I was high on drugs.
So, you know, and in prison, you know what I mean? So, yeah.
John Marshall | 06:09
We'll start with just where you grew up. Where was the first place you called home?
Bill Hardman | 06:13
West by God, Virginia was the first place I called home. But the first memory I have It sticks in my brain is here in Oregon because I was born in Salem. And we moved to West Virginia when I was five. But when I was three... I remember my dad was playing poker and I kept telling all of his cards. And so he gave me a beer and a cigarette and told me to shut up. And I was like, I thought I was a man then. I remember that. That memory sticks with me out of all the memories I have. That was one of the biggest ones. I think that started me on my journey to...
You know, where I've ended up. You know.
John Marshall | 06:54
Well, what were the parts of childhood that felt good and joyful? And as you named that memory, I'm assuming that there are probably some other stories that weren't so joyful.
Bill Hardman | 07:05
There's a lot of stories that weren't joyful. The joyful ones were when I was in West Virginia. I used to fish a lot. And I remember When I was a kid, it wasn't like, you know, you have to, they had a phone and they kept track of everything, little thing you did. They told you, get the heck out of the house. And don't come back until dark. And so I would do that every day. I loved it. That'd get me out of the house.
You know what I mean? And I would take off and I'd run the hills. All day long.
And then sometimes I get back at dark. Sometimes I get back after dark and I get my The bottom spank, but I didn't care.
You know, that's what I like being out there by myself in the woods or fishing or, you know, running through the fields and letting the cow done, you know, he was to my toes. You know, a lot of people don't understand that, but that's something that's special to me.
John Marshall | 07:56
Well, I'm assuming that in that freedom, there's adventure. Yeah. And there's play. Yeah. And I'm.. Assuming there was probably some.
Bill Hardman | 08:04
Trouble. No, there was some trouble with that, but not... As bad as When I got a little older, you know, that's when I was younger, like... - When I turned nine is when things started going, the bad way. I remember. There's this guy named Jeff Burdette. And he was my sister's boyfriend. And I, cause I had 14 siblings.
So we had a huge family.
John Marshall | 08:30
Where are you in that order of 14? At.
Bill Hardman | 08:31
Mary's last. Okay. On the last of the children. You're the baby.
Yeah, mama's baby, yep. And I'm a mama's boy, so it didn't matter. But... Jumpernet. It was like, Six foot six. And I'm like, you know, three and a half feet tall. And so he's the biggest guy I've ever seen in my life. And they were smoking weed. And I seen him smoking weed and that came running up on him.
You know, I'm like, what are you guys doing? And he's like, "Well, man, it's your brother's will." He won't say nothing.
And then I felt like I was one of the crowd, you know, 'cause I ain't gonna tell. - You were accepted, yeah. You were trusted. - Well, no, 'cause my sisters would beat my butt is what I knew.
So I didn't, I wanted to tell nothing. So at that point, you know, but when I got accepted by the guys, you know, for not being that being, you know, that I was cool to hang out if I wanted to. That was a big thing for me, you know, until they were doing bad things. Kind of right there with them, you know. And I remember I smoked my first couple hits of weed and drink a couple beers with them.
And then it got to, for me, it got to be more and more. You know, by the time we moved back out here, I was like, Think I'm blabbing? When I moved out here and I got right in with the back of my day, it was used to be the stoners and the jocks. And I wasn't a jock, but I wasn't really a stoner yet either.
You know, and so I, but I had to choose a group. And so I picked the Stoners, of course, because I, you know, got along with them. The jocks were too uppity for me. And so that was my... My thing, you know, and I knew I fit in when I, you know, would drink.
And then... No. The major mess up of my life was watching Scarface. And getting drinking while I was watching Scarface.
So I got a little bit drunk and I knew where the weed guy was. And so I was going to be like Scarface. I was going to just go over there and tell him, you know, I'm still your stuff. And that's what I did. I went over and knocked on his door. He seen I was a little kid at his door, what the heck reason, you know?
So he grabbed me, pulled me in the house, stuck a gun in my head. And he was like, what are you doing in my house? And I'm like.
Well, because I was drunk, so I, you know, liquid courage, so I told him, Get me some weed. I know you got weed and I'm here to get it. And he's like, who do you think you are?
And then my buddy that I didn't know was this was his uncle, but he comes around the corner. He's like, hey, that's my brand. That's my brand. And, you know, I'm 11 years old. You're 11 yeah.
John Marshall | 11:06
Years old with a gun in your face.
Bill Hardman | 11:09
And then... Alan, my buddy, he shaved my... Night. My butt, you know, my, I was his friend.
So he took the gun off and he goes, what do you want? And I said, well, I want to get some of that weed. And he goes, well, I'll tell you what. I'm going to give you this. And he gave me like a pound of weed and he told me to go sell it. And he wanted the money by the next day. And this was like, I don't know, nine o'clock at night. And so, but... Sadly enough, I knew a lot of people.
So, because I was a little kid, and I'd run around getting stoned with everybody. And so I just did the same thing I always did, and I sold every bit of it before morning, and I was knocking on his door again for another one. And so he was, like, amazed. He was like...
Thought I was going to have to shoot you know? My God.
Yeah, so I started selling pounds of weed, like, right off the gate, and did that for... Long time, when I was 13. I, Got in trouble and went to McLaren till I was 18. And that was all bad because I got there and I just was a crazy kid, you know, and I was a fighter, so... I wanted to fight everybody, and I wanted to pick the biggest guy I could find. And I did, you know, but they put me in. I was there with... For assault with intent to kill, UMV, and all kinds. I had like a rack of charges. If I was an adult, I'd have been looking at 160-some years in prison. And instead they gave me $12.18 at McLaren. And so when I got there, my dad told me I better pick the biggest I can find and beat him up. Because if I don't, they're going to beat me up and have their way with me. And I wasn't going to have that.
So I'm a scared kid. I found the biggest guy, and I smacked him, started beating him up, and then next thing I know, I'm kind of running the place.
You know, and it was great.
John Marshall | 13:03
Until 18. Yeah. Are you released at 18?
Bill Hardman | 13:06
.. Yeah, it was released when I was eight. I think I was... Matter of fact, I just turned 18 and but I had moved around they moved me around they had me down it I One of my... Best memories from being a teenager. Was in Corvallis House down in Corvallis. They went out on camping trips and they'd hike mountains. They would do, we'd climb Smith Rocks. We did a whole bunch of that stuff. And man, I loved that. I was in the best shape I was ever in my life.
And then they moved me from there to... Up to Portland to exit me out, and I had like a year left. And we got up there. And they put me in youth progress. I think it was before they put me in pitch house, he put me in youth progress. And this was a house. You just go to a house. You were supposed to go get a job. You're supposed to, then you just kind of live like a human being and they teach you how to pay bills and do stuff like that. And, I, Being the criminal that I am, I caught the... The lady that was running the house was one of the guys that was living at the house. He was like 17 or 18, and he was with her, so I caught him, and I'm like... Okay, so here's how it's gonna go. Because I told them how it was going to go. I didn't do nothing they told me to do. I was out partying and having a good time. And doing whatever I wanted, you know, so it wasn't really, I wasn't learning anything. I was learning how to be a better criminal, basically.
John Marshall | 14:47
Some of the reflection that I hear in others who have similar stories is that from an early age, their just sense of awareness about the world is that it's, you know, Eat or be eaten. Yeah. Biggest dog wins. Constantly survival mode. And so I'm out for myself and others be damned.
Yeah.
Bill Hardman | 15:06
I wasn't really out for myself because I shared with everybody, but I was out to run it myself. I wasn't, I didn't care about... The people that were acting wrong, because I was going to act, you know, the way I was going to act. But if I caught somebody not following the rules, I knew for a fact that I had them by the... Short hairs so I could do whatever I wanted. And that's how I wanted it. I didn't care.
You know, it wasn't about just me because I would share everything I get with everybody.
John Marshall | 15:40
So what I hear in that is almost a pursuit of power and control. Yeah. And I'm very curious if, as the youngest kid of 14, If...
Bill Hardman | 15:50
If... I had none.
John Marshall | 15:52
If that was the, if that's the storyline is that growing up in a family where you probably had so little control over.
Bill Hardman | 15:59
Your reality. I thought about it like that. But yeah, and then when everybody else moved out, my sisters, I had three sisters and they just... They told me what I was doing all the time. Used to tickle me until I peed. I hated that.
And then that was it. Then I'd do whatever they'd tell me to do, you know. But yeah, that's, I never thought of that.
John Marshall | 16:23
So after 18... What's the next?
Bill Hardman | 16:27
The next step was, okay, so my goal, after Youth Progress, I went to Pitcher House. And then I started a little gang of, there. All the six, because there were six of us that I trusted. There was five other people besides myself that I trusted. I didn't trust anybody else. And, Three of us were from Salem, or four of us were from Salem, and two of them weren't. And... We kind of ran things over there, you know, so we wanted to make sure I wanted to make sure I was doing what I wanted and what they're telling me to do. And my goal is, The time was to give out. And drive big. Imp car and have a big Slack of dope. And all the pretties grow like fine. And that's all I wanted to do. And so when I... Finally saves up enough to get out. Because, you know, we're locked up, so we're not, and we're working for our money.
So it didn't really take me that long to make the money to move out. It's like six months or something like that. But as soon as I made the money... I took it down and I bought me the, Three piece gray pinstripe suit with a... Pink, hot pink shirt and a pink and gray tie. This is in the 80s. And some Varney sunglasses and some nice Oxford shoes and, That's how I left the place, 'cause that's what I wanted to do.
And then I went down and bought me a car. It was a big old... Cordova. It was in 1976. 77 Cordova and add, you know, that old commercial. It's like Cordova. Whoa. And that's what I got.
So it was a two-door. It had red interior. It had a gray. It was a gray car, kind of a silver gray. And, you know, it went with my pinstripe suit, so... At my big pip No, I felt like dead.
John Marshall | 18:20
Cart. At that point, did you feel like your dreams had come true, that you had made it and that life was figured out?
Bill Hardman | 18:29
I got that one done. You know, I had more, My next goal was to get, man. With the motorcycle and I was going to put the motorcycle in the van and then drive around until I got to where I wanted to be and then I was going to ride my bike everywhere.
So I lived like that for trying to get that up for a long time. And I meant this girl. Doing that. This was all from 18 to 24. And when I met this girl, I ended up getting her pregnant. And we had a baby, but... But while she's pregnant, I got the band that I wanted, right? And it was a... 1949 Ford, suicide door band, but the suicide doors in the back. And, that was like my dream band. I was like, yeah, got that.
And then I had, you know, I played guitar, did a lot of different stuff at that point. And, I remember her telling me one day, she goes, either the guitar goes or I go.
So I'm like, boop, out goes the guitar. And then she tells me, either the man goes or I go.
So, boop, there goes the man, you know. And then I had a bunch of tools that... Because I worked on that man a lot.
So she goes, either the tools or I go. And then she goes, all right, is drugs go or I go? And I'm like, See ya. Because I wasn't giving that one up. I gave everything else up, but I wouldn't give up the drugs.
You know, and, to see that maple. And then she had the baby in the, up in Port, or up in Alaska. This is where she moved to her mom's.
So, I didn't see the baby until she was 18, so... But then at 24, I went to prison, so... Start getting real bad.
John Marshall | 20:16
Man. Well, I'm curious, before we get to that next chapter... In this period where you're giving away these material things that you had worked really hard for. Yeah.
And then you get to the line in the scene where you have to give up drugs. And you go, nope, that's not a line I'm willing to And she leaves.
Bill Hardman | 20:34
Cross. That wouldn't happen.
John Marshall | 20:37
And then you're alone. And now... You just gave up all these things. Right. That previously had me into. What was your sense of value as a human?
Bill Hardman | 20:47
I was worthless at that point. I felt like..... I was achieving all my dreams and now I don't have any dreams. Because they all just went down the tube. And I knew it was because of the drugs. But I didn't want to, I wasn't ready to stop yet. And I wasn't ready to admit that was the drugs.
You know what I mean? I was... Telling myself she was just a B word or whatever, you know. It was all hurtful. I tried to put it off on where the blame didn't go.
I mean, she was just like me, so I don't know why she's acting like that. You know what I mean? The reality was I was bad.
I mean, I was really bad and I would steal anything I could get a hold of. I was a car thief, so I, like, I would steal people's car that I think they made bets on me because they would like people's, you know, Salem's a small town and it's always been a small town. And it's like, which ones of our family is he going to steal from?
You know what I mean? And I used to think, I never thought about nothing about that. I just had to kind of get my Slack. Because at that point it was just Nothing but. Gettin' high. And... Going to get more.
You know, and then seeing how many car chases I get into with cops. And And I was good at it.
John Marshall | 22:13
Is that? Adventure for you?
Bill Hardman | 22:16
There's excitement. You know, and I think I would get higher stealing the car and getting in a car chase than I would because I'd go up and I'd see a cop car and I'd go make him chase me. I'd go do a couple cookies and run and take off, you know, and then they'd chase me and then I'd get away. And I'd think it was funny, you know, and then I'd go spray paint my car for You know, because I'd take one and I'd spray paint it six times, you know, getting six different car chases with it and then finally ditch it or whatever.
John Marshall | 22:42
Was it the sort of excitement and play that you felt as a kid in West Virginia when your parents said, get out of the house and you just had the whole day to.
Bill Hardman | 22:51
Yourself? Yeah.
Yeah, because I'd be out there by myself, but I had to have my drugs doing it. I wasn't going to. Do it without drugs, you know what I mean? And everything that I would get. In between, I'd pretty much just give it away.
You know, I'd give it away or 20 bucks. Hey, 20 bucks.
Yeah, whatever I got. You know what I mean? And I'd have it.
You know, thousands of dollars worth of stuff sometimes and just give it away for, you know. And my thing was I would like to give. Things that people collect.
You know what I mean? I'd go find things that people would collect, and I would take it to them.
You know what I mean? However I'd get it, that was... Mostly in a bad way. I was a bad person.
You know, now that I look at it was bad. I was a bad person, but I was thinking I was being a good person. Sure.
You know, and I never stuck up for myself. If somebody takes something from me, I just let them take it. And all that.
And then one day... Went to prison.
John Marshall | 23:45
Yeah. What was that next chapter? What impact did it have on your trajectory?
Bill Hardman | 23:51
Change everything. Because I went to prison. It was 1989.
Well, first... Let me get this off my chest because the Frankie murder happened... Where supposedly Frank Gable killed this guy. Let me know high up on that. In the directions, and he didn't, because he was too weak to do it. He came over to my house one day, and I took a gun from him, because he was flashing around looking for... This guy Larry, I told him, I just went out and slapped him on the side of his head and took his gun.
So I know for a fact he couldn't have killed that guy. He's a big bad guy. He's supposed to be killed. And, I remember that night I was walking through And I got in this car. Right. And it was his car. I didn't know this until after the fact. I was in prison with one of the guys that wrote a book about it. And when I told him this, he was like, dude, you got to write this down. He was going to make an addendum to his book. I don't know if he ever did or not, but I, so I was going to steal the stereo out of the car because that's what I did.
You know, there was no keys in it, so I wasn't going to steal it. I only stole them if they had the keys because I was lazy. Or if they took a screwdriver or something, you know. But I got this laptop out of there. I thought it was a TV, but it was huge. It was like... This big, you know, and it was like orangey stick. And I'm like, what the? And he'd open it up and this department of corrections, him come across it.
Well, I got rid of that for like 20 bucks to somebody, you know? And I think they sold it down the road for like a hundred thousand or whatever, because it was part of the, Evidence, you know. And they were looking for it really bad, but I didn't know.
Anyway, I did this, and then I got bored with it, so I just got out of the car and left. And then when I was coming back through, I was walking back through, And there was cops everywhere over there, right? And I was like, my God.
So I take off and I think to her, that's because, you know, I must say it's somebody's car, you know what I mean? In the You know, thinking they were after me, that's how paranoid and crazy I was in my head.
John Marshall | 25:56
You're thinking they're chasing you for a $20.
Bill Hardman | 25:58
Computer. Right. No, I thought they were chasing me because I thought they were just there because I had broke into that car. I didn't know there was a murder and all that because that murder happened right there. Must have been happening while I was inside the car.
You know what I mean? I didn't know all that. When I got arrested... A week or two later, you know, It was like... It was just a weird trip, you know what I mean? Because I thought they were going to bust me for that somehow. And they never even came to talk to me about it. But... While I was in this time, I learned more than I did. My whole life in that one little six-month set. First thing I seen was the biggest drug dealer that I knew... Naked and wrapped up in toilet paper, standing out in front of the whole tier. And everybody laughing at him because he was wrapped in toilet paper and crying because he couldn't have a blanket. I've seen, A list of about... I don't know, I'm probably... 60 people that was telling on, Other people, you know, especially Frank Gable, and for whatever reason, you know, and Frank was a rat from Kaiser, so it didn't really, to me it wasn't that big of a deal, but they were telling, so, and I was always told you never tell. And so, and I held my mud all the whole time, you know, and, It just amazed me that these people that I know, the Solid Brothers, were telling. I go to, I. If I go to be. This is like Two months later...
You know, two months into my six-month set, I'm at the EOCI, and I'm working out, and it's freezing cold outside the bar. You had to put socks on your hands so you could grab the bark so it was so cold. And I'm out there working out and I had like two or three other guys with me. And I remember one day there was a bunch of, Tom Lester's. In this circle and singing and playing this guitar. And I was watching this and I was just like, That ain't gonna happen. And I'm like, hey, dudes, let's go get him. And they're like. Okay, let's go.
So I took off, you know, thinking they were right behind me. Well, they didn't even, they stayed back where they were at. I go over there, kick the guy with the guitar, take the guitar, start smacking people with it, look back and see everybody doing, yeah, bro, go, yeah, go. And I'm like, are you serious? These are my boys. Brothers, my dogs, you know what I mean? The ones that are supposed to have my back.
And then I go to the hole. I think I only got seven days out of that. Then I found another guy that told on me, like, Got another 14 days in the hole for that.
And then they moved me to the other side. But I learned... That these people They're in that drug world. They have no... They don't care about you one bit. They care about themselves. I always thought that there was some kind of goal we were working towards. You And there was no team, buddy.
John Marshall | 29:02
Thought you were on a team.
Bill Hardman | 29:07
It was all I. Yeah.
John Marshall | 29:09
And the perfect metaphor is probably that event of rushing toward the.
Bill Hardman | 29:13
Group. That's what changed my mindset from being, because I was the nicest guy in the world at that point. I would give everything I had away. And, That was probably the turning point where I stopped doing that. And instead I got angry. And so... When I get out... The first thing that my... Friends would do that I knew wasn't my friends, but the first thing they would do is hook me up.
So I'd let them hook me up. And they'd give me a big old Slack of dope and I'd take off running and I'd steal cars and I'd just do what I wanted to do, stay by myself.
You know what I mean? I'd chase some girls around every now and then. And, beat up people because when I'd find them, I'd just beat them up. When I'd see somebody that if they were doing the wrong thing, if it was that they owed somebody two bucks from 30 years ago, I was going to take them out.
You know what I mean? And that's where I was at with it. Because it sickened me so much that these people that were supposed to be my solids, or just weak like that.
And then I just kept going back to prison and going back to prison. And it was just crazy.
John Marshall | 30:18
So when I asked you earlier, you know, what's the impact of that stint? Yeah.
Bill Hardman | 30:28
No. It was a reset to anger. In a Full on negative.
John Marshall | 30:31
Negative trajectory. Yeah.
So how long does that? Version of you exist in the.
Bill Hardman | 30:38
World a long time like 40 years of my life, yeah, because I was tough. I was, I'm just going to say it. I was a badass. I didn't play you. They got to the point where Pete looked at me. I might just track you. And nobody knew because I was, they called me, I had... The buncee dip the next thing. I was hit man hard man. I was, because I hit so hard. And I was..... Crazy Bill. And I was... I didn't like Wild Bill because I thought that one was kind of weak.
So when they told me that, I usually cracked them. But I had another one. It's called Maglite Bill. That was my favorite one. I'd take Maglite after a while because I broke my knuckles.
So many times that you can see they're not even there anymore. But I, but. I'd get a maglite. And, carry that around with me day or night. Didn't matter. And usually didn't, sometimes they didn't have batteries in it because I didn't use it for, you know, seeing stuff, used for cracking somebody upside their head. And, That's what day I suddenly got my nickname, the maglite bill, and that stuck with me forever.
Like 30 years. You know. Well...
John Marshall | 31:55
When I walked on to property at our family shelter site and I've seen you in space and there's, you know, four-year-olds and five-year-olds running up to you with their arms wide. Yeah. Because- They trust you.
Bill Hardman | 32:08
I love kids.
John Marshall | 32:09
I mean, I'm listening to these stories right now going.
Bill Hardman | 32:12
These were in prison stories. Now, when I was out of prison, I was always for the women and kids, no matter what, and the old people, no matter what. This is how I was brought up.
So I had some kind of morals still left in that. I was still in that mindset of being a Cro-Magnon, but I had the morals and values of a human being when it come to... Taking care of women, children, and old people. Because that was beating me when I was a kid, when I was.
John Marshall | 32:40
Young. So what I'm curious then is, what are the experiences and what are the checkpoints in... That period of life where you are you know, hit men, hard Okay.
Bill Hardman | 32:51
Men. -.
John Marshall | 32:53
- What are the experiences that ultimately take you out of that version of yourself and into this version that exists.
Bill Hardman | 33:00
Now? I never thought I would see this version again, the version that is here now. I thought that I was going to die with Neelamar, to be honest. I got ditches in my armless, you know. Chorus Deep. And... But I couldn't shoot it no more. I smoked it. And I thought that I was going to die like that.
And then... Gets the last straw. Was a couple, about three years ago, This guy, well, it was 2017. I'd just gotten out of prison for the last time. And I was trying to I'm not really doing the right thing. I was still selling drugs, but I was... Doing it the right way, not getting in the middle of everything.
Like I usually do because that gets me in my back in prison, but it is starting to get close again. And a hug. I bought this car from this guy. It was a stolen car. And I didn't know it was stolen. I thought it was my dream car, so I had blinders on, wasn't paying attention, and he owed me $3,600. And so he's supposed to be one of the solid brothers. And he wasn't. As soon as I took off in the car, I had to go to Woodburn to get the title and registration and all that stuff. Come back. I was going to go to the bank to get him 1,000 more bucks because I didn't give him 4,600 bucks for it. And he ended up No, calm the cock.
So they swooped on me. And... I tried to explain it to them. They didn't want to hear it. The paperwork was right in the middle, you know, and all that. And they didn't want to hear it. Give them a pass. And so then I go to see the judge. He tells me the same thing.
Well, because of your past. And I'm like, screw you, dude. I didn't do it.
And then he was going to give me contempt of court in his... We weren't even in court.
You know, we were in the chambers. He didn't give me Tim's court for getting mad at him. I'm like, I'm not mad at you. I'm mad because of the situation, man.
You know, you're telling me there's nothing I can do about it. And I, but I didn't steal this car.
You know, only one I didn't steal, and you're going to try to, you know, give me 130 months for it. And getting...
John Marshall | 35:08
You're finally trying to do the right thing, and you're still.
Bill Hardman | 35:11
Right. Well, I wasn't really doing the right thing, but I wasn't doing crimes. There you go. At least crimes that I consider crimes. My whole thing was to do a crime every day, no matter what. I was a little kid all the way up. It was to get away with something every day. It didn't matter if it was a... Me and you, if we borrow your lighter and we put it in my pocket without you knowing it.
You know what I mean? That's crime as far as I'm concerned. Not really, but I mean, that's getting away with something. But, reality was you know, I had a bit of that coming, because all the stuff they didn't get me for, you know, but then it ended up, I'm looking at all the signs. The judge that was going to give me a contempt was the drug court judge.
So he said, look, he just got a drug problem. He needs help.
So he said, You know, we told somebody to come talk to me about it. So they did. And I was like, yeah, I can scam my way to do that. I'll scam my way to every program they ever do at me.
So let's do it. And they put me in there and went, you can't. There's no scam in that one. And you actually have to do it, and you have to do it the right way, or you just don't.
You know, you go to prison. And so I figured that out pretty quick, so I just did the right thing.
And then when I got through it, after a couple years into it took me about two years to get through it, But after the last dirty UA or missed UA, because it's a dirty UA, it doesn't matter if you miss it, it's called dirty, but I just missed it. And it's like, I took one the next day and it was still clean, but it didn't matter because I missed takes more months, you know, and so that next six months I thought about things a lot.
John Marshall | 36:42
It. So it.
Bill Hardman | 36:47
I thought about all my friends that just died on fentanyl because that fentanyl came in. When I got out in 2017, it was like zombie land. Yep. People sitting around and hanging out, you know, just like doing the. The shovel and it was like, what the crap?
And then all these people dying. I mean, like 10 people, like right in a row. And I knew real well. And... That did it to me.
John Marshall | 37:11
Seeing the people around you. Yeah. Suffering that way.
Bill Hardman | 37:15
And suffering and not even caring, knowing that next hit could be the one. They knew it.
I mean, they would know, and then they would die. It was like, Are you serious?
You know, why would anybody? And I've never, because I've never tried that.
So I don't know how, you know, enticing that is. I was always on meth. I was always on uppers, not downers.
So I didn't really know Didn't understand that. But...
Yeah, that's what did it for me, right there, watching all them. The last young people that I know died.
You know, it was like that was enough. And so I made it, I always told myself when I make fun of the war, I'm done. And it wasn't fun.
So I was Three years now.
John Marshall | 37:57
Done. So how long have you been sober?
Bill Hardman | 38:00
Congratulations. It'll be three years, December 26th.
So two years and, Whatever wants. It's a big deal, Bill. It's huge. Well done. It's huge.
Yeah, I love it.
John Marshall | 38:10
This version of you that exists now. Yeah. How has it maybe replaced some of the stories you tell yourself about your value in the world?
Bill Hardman | 38:19
I'm not sure yet. Honestly, if you want to... I was always a tough guy, so now... Not being that tough guy? Is like, it's weird. It's like, people don't look at me and just automatically give me respect anymore.
You know what I mean? I mean, because they were scared before.
So yeah, they give me respect. Cool. Whatever. But now it's totally different. It's like, And the little kids, you got to earn it. You don't just get it.
You know, and I learned that right off the bat. I think, There was one of them kids, she was a little older, she was about 11 I think. And she's been a huge, she taught me a lot right off the bat when I first started working. And I was like, you know, trying to follow the rules that they wanted us to follow. They give a little lax around there sometimes.
So they, you know, they weren't back to this layer. They weren't doing that.
So, but I was, You know, I thought I was supposed to do what I was told, so I... Time to tell them, go find the parent or whatever it was. And she got mad at me, boy, and she just let me have it. I was like, well, and then I asked somebody about it. It was Taylor. She's a great... Right. And us.
John Marshall | 39:31
Taylor's on staff with.
Bill Hardman | 39:33
Yes. Yes. And she goes no, this is, we do this and this happens. We do that. And I'm like, okay.
So I went back. To that little girl and I said, hey, I apologize. I was in the wrong. I didn't know that. That this is how it worked. Instead, you know, it's exactly like you said.
So, and that earned me the respect. That changed everything for me. It was like she... She just smiled real big, like, yeah.
And then she walked up, like, cucked the walk, and I had to walk up and walk to see him. And I'm okay with that.
You know, cause it worked. And she comes back now, it's Josh Mayne. We get along.
You know what I mean? We don't have any issues. I have a lot of kids that... That's what they wanted. Just give me hugs.
You know, this girl, this one, Lady came up and gave me her baby the other day in the, just to hold on to while she went to the bathroom real quick. And it was a little baby. I'm holding the little baby. He's crying. He's crying. But he lays his head on my shoulder and he starts crying, you know, and now I can hold him and he won't cry. But the first time I just kind of held him and he was trying, I told him it was okay and. It's kind of neat.
John Marshall | 40:43
The common... The thread of those stories that you just told... In my brain is vulnerability. That for that 11-year-old girl who has a staff member. Come up to her and say, I'm sorry, I was wrong. And you are right to have an adult in that setting, be able to risk vulnerability. Yeah. I have to think is a significant part of Batgirl's story now.
And then just holding an, Odler, a newborn child.
Bill Hardman | 41:17
I love kids, man. I've always loved kids. It's a thing. But I just... I never thought that I wanted to be around him again when I was getting high.
Yeah. All the time.
Cause I, and I hated that when, there'd be a female that had kids. I mean, I've seen it all. I've been in trap houses. I've been in some really grungy spots, man, where there was kids and it just sickened me the whole time, but I would never engage. In other words, I wouldn't.
You know, I always tried to help the kids out if I could. I'd feed them or whatever.
Yeah. I didn't try to engage and get too close to that. I didn't need that.
You know what I mean? Because I knew I was high.
John Marshall | 41:57
- Well, one of the things that I think that I've learned in my very short experience of being human and working And trying to be a helpful human in the context of homelessness is that To be vulnerable requires safety. You have to know that you are in a safe environment. You have to know that there are safe people around you. You have to know that. To risk vulnerability isn't going to get you hurt in the long run.
Bill Hardman | 42:30
Can I say something there?- In my opinion. From me. I always had that wall up and I was always angry and that kept everybody away from me. That's what I was. My goal was to keep everybody away. The only way I'd let somebody in is if, They stuck around, and they were consistent about who and what they were.
And then I might talk to him. You know, that doesn't mean I like him. That just meant I'd talk to him.
And then it goes from there, you know what I mean? And for a lot of homeless people that I know, that Ball they have to have it because when you're out there in the middle of the slime, you know, and that's what it is. You, I mean, a lot of people...
John Marshall | 43:18
Well, it's survival mode.
Bill Hardman | 43:19
Continuously. Even when they get into the... It takes months or so before they even come out of that soil anymore.
John Marshall | 43:26
One of the questions that I get a lot from people who... I don't know what we're up to at Church of the Park or see what we're doing and are confused by it. Almost always, one of the very first questions is, how long do people stay with you? Do they have to be out super quick? Is there a deadline?
Bill Hardman | 43:43
I love that there's no... Limit. Interactive. They're doing what they're supposed to do, but it's not a whole bunch. And that's the key. It's not a whole bunch. If you get in there and you make them do this and make them do that, they ain't going to want to do none of it.
And then they're just going to bail out and go back into what they know.
John Marshall | 44:04
Right. It's one of my... One of my most privileged moments is when I get to say, no, we've built this. Structure and system where You show that you're working on your own pathway of disability and you're safe on site. And you get to be here for as long as you need to be. But what you just shared a minute ago is so significant. Why we chose to create a program like that, which is It takes a long time for someone's nervous system to exit survival mode.
And then get to the place where they can actually start imagining a better future for themselves. To the point where it actually becomes worth it to try. To work on that imagined future. And I wonder if there's a point in your own story where you start to, you started to see the possibility of a better future for yourself and it became worth it to try.
Bill Hardman | 45:06
When I graduated drug court, I think that was humongous. Kind of acted like a tough guy still, but I was still in protection mode. And right now I still live in Oxford House, but I don't feel like... I have to live there anymore.
You know, I live there because I choose to live there. When I got my job at Home Depot, I wanted that job really bad. I don't know what it was. It was being part of something, I think, for me, for all my life. It's like... When they talk when they're at Home Depot and they Tell you about the aprons. You haven't got your apron yet, but when you get your apron, it's not that big of a deal. But to me, it was huge. It was like this major thing. I'm part of something. I got the apron.
You know what I mean? I got my apron. And when I'd walk to work and I'd put that thing on and I'd go to tie it up, well, I'd have to tie it in the front because I was too bad to get around all the way to the back.
John Marshall | 46:07
Okay, so Bill, here's my question. As you were telling your story and saying, I thought I knew I was on a team. I thought I knew who the good guys were. I thought I knew that guys around me were solid.
And then I realized by the end of it, I'm actually by myself and I'm not on a team. And I'm not part of something that's bigger than myself. And now as you just described what it was like to get your apron, I go, that sounds like the antidote. That sounds like You actually got to experience being on a team and knowing that you could trust the people around you. Right. Is that accurate?
Bill Hardman | 46:39
Well, that's what I thought. Yeah.
Honestly, it turned out it wasn't. The greatest thing in the world, but, it led me to this job.
Yeah. And, yeah, this experience. And I've been here... I haven't been here a year yet. But the... Closeness of the people.
John Marshall | 47:04
Here at Church of the.
Bill Hardman | 47:04
Park. Right. Getting to know... The families. And when I go over to VOH and help out over there, I know a lot of those people over there You know, I wish that I could get my license, but I can't because I don't think I'll ever get a license again because I screwed it up so bad. But I would love to be on the outreach team so I could go out in the camps because I know them people out there.
You know, there was a time when I couldn't, but now I see... What this place does. And as I've told you when I first got my job, I seen what just plays out when I was still selling drugs, I was going out there to, or you guys were having your first meals out there.
John Marshall | 47:48
Yeah, Caskett's Gateway Park.
Bill Hardman | 47:49
Right. Back behind there, I think all you guys had was a shower spot, a bathroom. And a bunch of tents out in that field in the back. Do you remember that? Okay, I'd come out there and sell drugs to all the people in the tents in the back, but you didn't know that. But seeing what was happening, because they was all...
You know, migrate up. And get their showers and they were getting taken care of.
You know what I mean? I was still homeless and running around. I was seeing that stuff, but I wasn't understanding it.
Yeah. You know, and then when I seen the video with John in it, animal is what I call them because that's what the street name needs to be. And when I seen that video when I got the job here at training, that was huge to me. It was like, you know, because you guys helped him get in, get out, get off the street. He'd been there for. 50 years. And that guy was ingrained in that street.
You know what I mean? I mean, he was ingrained in it to where you could see the lines in his face were so thick that that's how ingrained he was, you know what I mean, weathered. I call that weathered.
And then... You know, when I seen him get his plays, That was right before the last time I went to prison.
And then when I got out, I got my Home Depot job and then, you know, because I had to. And then when I finally got this job, I knew I found... Where I needed to be.
Yeah. You know, because I can talk to these people. I know where they've been. I can listen to them. Because I know what they're saying.
Yeah. You know?
John Marshall | 49:20
Yeah, one of our biases is that We only ever... Become The fullest, healthiest. Versions of ourselves in the context of relationship, in the context of community when there's actually people around us that we trust. Who are safe. It's weird. That We use this sometimes. It can kind of come across as pithy, but We say, you know, homelessness starts with broken relationships and that what we're trying to do at Church of the Park. Is replace broken relationship with healthy relationship, trusting that is the first context where a nervous system starts to heal. And someone can take a big deep breath and go, "Okay, I'm not in survival mode. I don't have to fight." the people around me. I don't have to struggle just to know that my food isn't going to be stolen, my tent's not going to be slashed, my sleeping bag's not going to be taken because people around me. Aren't in survival mode and just looking for their own Before we started recording, one of the things that you said that you were really excited to talk about was...
Bill Hardman | 50:22
Space, their own Love. There's good.
So...
John Marshall | 50:32
The things that you've learned about what it's going to take to solve homelessness. And so I'm, I want to, let this be the segue into... Bill, what have you learned? What are the insights you have as you've experienced this environment, as you've experienced homelessness for yourself and you've seen it in other people and you see programs like ours that aren't perfect and don't always work for everyone but do seem to make a difference for some? It makes.
Bill Hardman | 50:58
A difference for a lot more than what you can imagine. The outreach people when they go out into them camps. Being consistent. In a... Keeping your word... Telling them something and it actually happening. As huge.
You know, Hurry, everybody. I mean, you know, if... If your boss tells you, well, You're going to get a raise, probably. And you do. That's being a man of his word. Okay, so he told you that and you didn't get your raise. He'd be like, "Well, that was not cool." You know what I mean? And that will build that wall right back up again. For some people. And like when you're homeless, And then... That's in them first. Few months. Something consistent? And somebody doing what they say they're going to do. Is you could be the make or break of it. Because as soon as you break that, because it's a minute little bit of trust because it's, Homeless people are always looking for something better. I don't care what anybody says. They don't really want to be out there. They might not want to follow the rules that they have to follow to them.
John Marshall | 52:17
Get... If they're there, it's because it's the best option available to.
Bill Hardman | 52:20
Sometimes. Sometimes it's because they want to be there, because they don't have to follow a lot of rules.
Yeah, right. You know? And if they don't, it takes... The first couple months, But meeting somebody... If they tell you something and they don't come through with it, And they don't, Act right. It's over. That person's done. That person's not allowed around no more.
You know what I mean? And it's like, it's the same with us. When we go into one of them camps, And we tell them that they, Don't worry, tomorrow I'll bring you this. I'll bring you a hat or I'll bring you a coat. And they do. That's huge. It's like we had a little bit of trust right there. Okay, well then you say, well, check it out. I'll bring you some clues tomorrow. How about that? Okay, we'll see.
And then, hey, I got something that might be able to help you. I think we'll come by tomorrow and we'll check it out together.
Yeah, right. You know what I mean? But if it's consistent... And it really starts working. That's exactly what we do. And I see it and it goes from there to The VOH to CCS to Monmouth to, I'm sure in all the same places, it's pretty much the same story.
Yeah. Because those people don't trust nobody. Believe that.
John Marshall | 53:32
Yeah. The lesson that I've learned is that when I hear someone say, I don't want help or I don't want to live in a shelter, I don't want that program.
Bill Hardman | 53:39
That's because you want to keep doing drugs and keep being out there on their own rules.
John Marshall | 53:43
Your point of the rules is like, Whoa. At least my... Perception from the stories that I've been entrusted with is when someone says, I don't want help. What? The message underneath that is, I don't trust the people who I'm going to meet in the places that are supposed to help me. Never. And what I'm hearing you describe right now is that. Actually, people do want a better life for themselves. They do. But they want to trust that the people around them are going to follow through and actually be on their team.
Bill Hardman | 54:18
And they want to... They want to feel like it was their doing.
John Marshall | 54:22
Yeah. That they're the heroes of their own story.
Bill Hardman | 54:24
Of course. And that's what I love about church support because we don't push them to do so. They do it on their own. And that makes it, that must matter because it, I don't know. I think in the Bible it says it somewhere. But it might, and not in these words, of course, but there's an overall that says it's, Get something yourself. It makes you feel better inside. I don't know if it's that, it says it like that, but I know for me, if I'm doing something on my own, And I'm getting my own things. I'm feeling much better about it. Whether you came to me sideways and didn't tell me and threw a couple hundred bucks on the ground or something, I found it. Supposedly, I'd be like, hey, go buy me some food. I'd be like, yeah, I got my own food.
You know what I mean? Whether you help me or not. I wanted to feel like I did it. I'm like, does that make Yeah.
John Marshall | 55:21
Sense? There's an additional layer of dignity when you get to, of course, claim the process as your own.
Bill Hardman | 55:27
And that, and by, Where I'm at today. You know, I, I donate stuff because I'm getting fatter all the time.
You know, I mean, it's just part of the deal because I like to eat and I'm getting old and I don't like to exercise as much as I used to. So I accept that. But I'll take the clothes that I'm now growing. And I'll donate them, you know, and I donate shoes, and I don't, I mean, I gave shoes away, you know, and I'll see some people in there, I seen a little girl, okay, so I got, grew it on mine one time, and I bought these blankets. They're supposed to be cooling blankets, 'cause I sleep hot.
Well, I got these blankets, and they turned out to be two feet, by about a foot and a half.
John Marshall | 56:11
Yeah, they're cooling 'cause they don't cover your body. Exactly.
Bill Hardman | 56:13
What I thought! Okay, so I went from there, and I took one of those blankets, and I took it into CCS, and I gave it to this girl who just had a baby. And I gave it to this other girl that has an older-- she's still young. She's still a baby, but she's like two, I think. And I gave it to her. She just loved it. She would rub it on her face and it was nice soft blanket, you know what I mean? But it wasn't for me, but Hey, I didn't waste it.
You know what I mean? I didn't have to send it back because I won't send it back because I'd be, I'd feel stupid when I get burned online. I know better. But I did and I give it to that little girl and she loves it, you know?
So that made that feel so much better.
John Marshall | 56:50
Yeah. When you get, To be generous when you have, you know, the capacity to give yourself to the project. I like.
Bill Hardman | 56:57
To do it without them knowing that I'm doing it. You know what I mean?
Like I'll hear all over here something and I'll get something for somebody and then I'll say, hey, look what I found the donations or whatever. You know what I mean? And I hope that's legal. Because if it ain't, that's too bad. I can't help myself, you know.
John Marshall | 57:16
I think it'll be a dark day in the world when being generous and kind is illegal. And so I say keep giving.
Yeah. Well, Bill, we're coming to the end of our conversation, but I want to make sure there's still space because. As we turn the conversation to how do we address homelessness, we really only talked about what it means to, Great trust through outreach. And I want to know, what else would you add to the mixing pot of solution?
Like, what do you wish the world did better to address homelessness?
Bill Hardman | 57:49
You know, I don't think about this very much, about the people that are, the donations we receive and, where our money comes from. You don't think about it very much unless it affects you know. And recently it's been affecting us a little bit.
So I've been thinking about that a lot. And I come. Think okay. What I really despise. About our government. They spend all this money. Saying we're going to fix the homelessness, we're going to fix this, we're going to put it into these programs. But they never do. They put it into researching the programs. They spend millions and millions of dollars researching something and then they only have a couple million left to actually try to put it into practice, like what happened up in Portland recently. And now they... They're going to probably lose those programs. If something doesn't happen real quick, you know, they spent 700 and some million dollars up there on the homeless that didn't. Do nothing.
John Marshall | 58:55
For them. Yeah, one of the misconceptions that I notice in the world is that it actually takes... A lot of money and resources. To do the work.
Bill Hardman | 59:04
Yeah. But I see a lot of it getting misspent, mistreated, goes to the wrong places. Because there are places that are helping. Our place is helping. This Church of the Park thing is a beautiful thing. It started out a meal on a table, literally. I can't stress the fact that I really love this job that I got, you know, and that I know for a fact that it's the money's going where it's supposed to go. It takes a lot. It takes money to make money, whatever. But it takes a lot to make things work, but it's working.
You know, don't, be the dead horse. This horse is alive.
You know what I mean? So, and it's working, it's helping people where they're at and it doesn't. And I think that's my main thing is where somebody's at, you know what I mean? And. You don't know what somebody's going through. You don't know what their problem is for that day. It could be the smallest thing in the world to you, but it could be the biggest thing in the...
You know what I mean? And by... Helping them right there where they're at.
You know, that's like the greatest thing to me. I just hate the waist. I hate she in the waist, and I never thought about it until... Recently, but I've looked into it a lot more now, and I think, what the heck?
You know, why... All this waste. On doing things that They're never gonna work.
You know, when you can... Check out the model that does work and try to mimic it.
You know what I mean? Why not ask for some help? Hey, how are you doing? How are, you know, I mean... That's how things work.
John Marshall | 01:01:00
Yeah, our hope is always that. Well, number one, that whatever we try to do is effective. But then that it's repeatable elsewhere. And I'm really thankful that your experience of your time in our community and i hope that we get to have you in our community forever.
Bill Hardman | 01:01:21
I can be here for a while. I really, I'd like to see things, good things happening to.
John Marshall | 01:01:27
People. Yeah, well, I'm just... I'm thankful that your experience has been so positive. The last question I have for you is... What's your... Message of encouragement to someone who's still living outside and hopeless that a better life is possible for them.
Bill Hardman | 01:01:44
*Gasps* I wish... Wish I could show them my experiences.
So they would know that I've been there. And now I'm not. And the only way you can do that is you have to want to not be there. You have to see stuff for what it really is.
You know what I mean? It took me 50 years of getting high all the time, every day, every time I got a chance. Going to prison, in and out, all these... There's crazy stuff happening. To realize that All I had to do was open my eyes and see reality around me.
You know what I mean? The real deal, what's really happening around me.
You know, and I... That's huge. And I just hoped that... More people open their eyes.
And then accept. What's being given. 'Cause hey, I'm there, I've been there, done it. I'll accept whatever you want to give me. That don't mean I'm going to act right.
You know what I mean? But then... If you keep given? And they keep accepting, eventually they're going to feel bad about it. I don't care who it is. I don't care if it's the evilest person you've ever met. If you stay consistent with them, they're going to realize that, That's real deal.
And then they're going to be acting right as they can. Because a lot of people don't really know how to act. I'll be for you.
John Marshall | 01:03:19
Little Bill. You are the real deal. And I'm grateful that I get to know this version of you, that we get to know this version of you, that the world gets to know this version of you. Because it's a beautiful version. Thank you. My hope is that Thank you.
Bill Hardman | 01:03:34
I don't see that in a mirror.
John Marshall | 01:03:41
But I'm really grateful that you would be willing to share your story and stories on the podcast. And maybe this is the episode that catches someone's ears and goes, Bill's been there, done that.
Bill Hardman | 01:03:51
Okay. I hope so. I really hope so.
John Marshall | 01:03:54
Yeah. And he's on the other side of You did okay.
Bill Hardman | 01:03:56
It. I hope we did. I hope we did okay.
John Marshall | 01:03:59
But before we officially end, I have 10 rapid fire questions.
Bill Hardman | 01:04:04
These are the ones I didn't like.
John Marshall | 01:04:06
I know. I sent you the questions beforehand to prepare you. But I'm going to ask him anyway. Go on in. I ask every single guest these questions.
Bill Hardman | 01:04:15
Okay, I might not answer most of that hurts my feelings.
John Marshall | 01:04:16
Them. That's okay. But number one, what's the best dessert? I like them all.
That's why Any kind of chocolate?
Bill Hardman | 01:04:25
I'm a fat guy. Come on, chocolate. Give me a gun of chocolate.
John Marshall | 01:04:31
Yep. Okay. A genie grants you one wish. What do you wish for?
Bill Hardman | 01:04:35
I thought about this one a lot. To win the lottery so it can just give it all away. That's reality. Which you have by me a couple of things, but I'd rather give it away.
Yeah.
John Marshall | 01:04:45
You bet. You bet. Would you rather go back in time and meet your ancestors or travel to the future and meet your descendants?
Bill Hardman | 01:04:53
I'd rather meet my ancestors. Why?.. I have some crazy wild ancestors.
I mean, I had one of them, one of my uncles had that in the first world war, got his head taken off. He's the first one on the beach by a cannon.
You know what I mean? I'd like to meet that guy. And that's my namesake, as a matter of fact, my Uncle Bill. My great-great-uncle Bill, yeah.
John Marshall | 01:05:15
Cats or dogs.
Bill Hardman | 01:05:17
Dev.
John Marshall | 01:05:18
Apples or oranges.
Bill Hardman | 01:05:20
Oranges because I don't got no teeth. There.
John Marshall | 01:05:24
What is your favorite smell?
Bill Hardman | 01:05:27
I thought about this when I was going to say something. Bad, but that's all that pops into my head. Cherry blossoms when they're in Loom over at the Capitol.
Yeah. Love that. And there's lilac. Lilac, I love lilac. Salem is the most beautiful town in the world, man. To walk around in the summer. We got my God.
John Marshall | 01:05:50
Some great natural areas. Well, what is one thing you would add to Salem to make it better?
Bill Hardman | 01:05:52
This is so beautiful. Yeah.
Honestly. More places like we have. More churches at the park places. And I say that because it takes them away from where they are.
So other people don't have to experience their badness and they find some good there.
John Marshall | 01:06:16
I would like that too. Yeah. What piece of advice has helped you the most?
Bill Hardman | 01:06:22
Back in the 80s, there was a movie. And it had spiccole in it. And he said he was really stoned. And he goes... Man, wherever you watch us take. Wherever you are. That's where you'll be. I've lived like that all my life.
John Marshall | 01:06:41
Right on. What is your favorite thing about.
Bill Hardman | 01:06:44
Yourself? My humor. Even though, you know, all the things I've been through, I still have me around no matter what.
Yeah, you do. I can be right in the middle of a robbery and say something dumb, you know what I mean? That's pointed my face. Go ahead.
John Marshall | 01:06:59
Alright, Bill, last question. What is your biggest hope for your future?
Bill Hardman | 01:07:05
Honestly, I just want to... I told my counselor this just a while back. I just want... To be able to live. The rest of my life comfortably.
You know, have food in my gut and have a plate roll over my head and be content. For the rest of my life, and I'm 60 years old, so I know my health integrates, but... Just being. Having a little bit of level of comfort that I've never had.
You know what I mean? But I've had that this last few years.
John Marshall | 01:07:39
I'm thankful for that and I'm glad, or I hope That you'd get to continue experiencing that. Yeah, me Well, again, thank you for saying yes to be on the podcast, sharing your story, sharing your wisdom.
Bill Hardman | 01:07:44
Too.
John Marshall | 01:07:52
You are someone who clearly has a holy amount of resilience and capacity to believe that something is better and available for And you have committed yourself to helping make it available for as many people as possible.
Bill Hardman | 01:08:02
You. For everybody.
John Marshall | 01:08:09
And I'm just so grateful that we get to have you in the community.
Bill Hardman | 01:08:13
I appreciate it. And I appreciate you guys too.
Yeah. Hey, nobody else would have took a chance like that on me. I really didn't think that I was going to get this job because of my past. And when I did, I was just like, You guys don't even know, but I'm glad you took a chance on me.
John Marshall | 01:08:28
I'm glad we did too. I'm glad you took a chance on yourself and took a chance on this job. No. And to those of you listening, thanks for tuning in and joining us for this episode of The Humanity of Homelessness. Thanks again to Bill for his vulnerability and courage to share his story. We hope his life serves as testimony to the rest of us that there is always good news to celebrate in hard places. And that all of our neighbors are worth our time and attention. If you'd like to remain connected with us at Church of the Park, please visit our website at churchatthepark.org. There you can find opportunities to volunteer, subscribe to our newsletter and weekly liturgy reflections, and stay in the know about our current and future projects. We have an online portal for financial giving. If you have questions for us or want to connect for a cup of coffee, We have lots of team members who would like to pay for your cup. Email us at info at churchatthepark.org. Again, that's info.com. I-N-F-O. At churchofthepark.org. Thanks, y'all. Until next time.