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Welcome to Funding Futures: Igniting Impact…
A podcast about the elusive world of philanthropy. We will uncover innovative and sustainable strategies through interviews with industry leaders and representatives from mission-driven organizations
Listen in to enrich your journey to a sustainable impact.
Transcript: David Chatham
David Chatham (00:19)
And we've seen that with so many of our clients or four years ago when we had first started with them, they weren't receiving grants from many of organizations with whom they're receiving grants now. And that what made a difference was that they were communicating with them, not just at grant time, right?
Bria Arline (00:36)
Thank you.
David Chatham (00:36)
but in between
and helping them to see how are they collaborating with other nonprofits? What impact are they
IQ Ignited (00:49)
Today, we are thrilled to welcome to the show David Chatham, Chief Success Strategist at Angel Oak, a marketing firm dedicated exclusively to nonprofits. With over 25 years of marketing experience, including the last decade dedicated exclusively to nonprofits, David brings a wealth of expertise in helping mission-driven organizations align their marketing, fundraising, and grant efforts for maximum impact.
In this episode, we'll dive into how you can leverage marketing and storytelling to secure significant grants, the importance of a strong brand in attracting and retaining funders, and how you can build sustainable strategies to help your organization stand out in an increasingly competitive funding landscape. Get ready for some practical insights and innovative ideas that help your organization ignite your funding strategy. Let's welcome David to the show.
Bria Arline (01:51)
David, so excited to have you here and thanks for joining us.
David Chatham (01:55)
Thank you for the invitation. I have always enjoyed our conversations and looking forward to this one as well.
Bria Arline (02:01)
Well, I definitely am.
I know we go back and forth on this a lot, how do grants and communications intersect?
David Chatham (02:07)
Bria correct me if I'm wrong, but to me, a grant application is really a communications tool, right? It's something that is provided by the grantor and asked of the grantee to communicate what is it that they do, how they do it, what this grant would benefit, and what the impact is going to be,
We think everything goes back to communication. So when you're developing your foundational messaging, your mission, your vision, your values, really trying to keep in mind who those audiences are to whom you're going to be speaking.
And one of those audiences for most nonprofits are grantors, Are those funders that they're going to be communicating with. So ensuring that the language they're using, the words, the vocabulary, the meanings, the messages, all of those things resonate with that particular audience can mean the difference between nothing and possibly millions of dollars in grants, right?
I'm sure you've seen that every day. And that's why they pay you the big bucks, You've probably become a master communicator, At understanding what grantors are expecting to hear. So think they intersect at multiple points. And if an organization hasn't...
created what I consider kind of leaned into the four Cs, right? It's clear, compelling, concise, consistent. If you haven't kind of focused on those four Cs of your messaging, then it's probably a good time to revisit and make sure that is what we're doing and how we're communicating it, does it make sense? to grantors and to every other audience that we're seeking to engage.
Bria Arline (03:44)
love that. I'm of, honestly, this analogy is going to sound a little bit weird. I'm thinking of communication as being the root and then everything else that branches off from that. If you have a good root, I could be speaking to donors, can be speaking to grantors, I can be speaking to volunteers, but it all goes back to that foundational messaging.
David Chatham (03:59)
That's right.
and again, I know we're looking at it through the lens of a communications agency, but I do think that's true. We sit down with our clients sometimes and we're in the room with their executive team and maybe a couple of board members and we'll go around and ask everyone to write out what they think the mission is. And you get back five different missions, right?
Bria Arline (04:19)
Hmm.
David Chatham (04:24)
And it doesn't mean that any of them are necessarily wrong. They're just not consistent, we use a tool we call the brand canvas. That's a really simple tool that captures all of that information on a single page. So literally everybody is on the same page when it comes to messaging, it has their beliefs, their mission, their vision, their values, what sets them apart, and all of that is on a single page.
Bria Arline (04:29)
and
I love the fact that you've boiled that down to one page. I feel like sometimes you get overwhelmed with what's my story? What's the origin story? You know, all those things, those terms that float around and you're like, which ones are the most important? So love that you've had that boil down to four Cs. I can always tell when we're working with an Angel Oak creative client though, because we always ask them, we need your branding. Can you give us, yeah, we have it all right, right here.
David Chatham (05:03)
Yeah.
Ha
Awesome.
Bria Arline (05:14)
yay.
David Chatham (05:14)
Well, I'm glad to hear that. I'm glad to hear that. Well, thank you. We're honored to do the work.
Bria Arline (05:17)
You do a great job.
Thinking pivoting from audience to audience, are some other aspects of being effective communicators that can help you with grants, but also translate into other opportunities for partnerships? I'm thinking about even just the need to be clear. Like a lot of our audience times when we're writing a grant,
David Chatham (05:40)
Yeah.
Bria Arline (05:43)
we always go with the clients like, okay, I know you have a general idea what this is going to look like, but we need very clear specifics. Are there any other areas where you feel like that can overlap?
David Chatham (05:49)
Yeah.
Yeah, I I think, you know, I'm sure a lot of your grants are focused on programs, right, that many of those. And I think one of the things that trips up a lot of organizations they're trying to describe their programs and they get so far into the weeds that it becomes a book,
Bria Arline (05:59)
Correct.
yeah.
David Chatham (06:12)
Rather than, and the way that we've really looked at it with most of our nonprofits, most medium and larger size nonprofits have three to six or so programs, Kind of core programs. And then under that, usually you have varieties of those. So, you might end up with 15 to 20 different kinds of activities that your nonprofit participates in to make its impact. That's a lot to talk about, right? That's a lot to cover.
So, we really try to boil those down into three or so pillars or, buckets, I guess is a little less formal term, but, what are those three or four things that you're really trying to accomplish with your programs and how do you label those? be as simple as, education, nutrition and housing or something like that, right.
And then under that, you have all of your programs, but to talk about how those primary things, those primary umbrella activities influence the rest of the work that you do usually helps to simplify your message because I think what we run into often is a nonprofit that tries to say everything, whether it's in a grant request or whether it's in a case for support or an annual report or an impact report,
Bria Arline (07:16)
Mm.
David Chatham (07:22)
it's like, okay, what are those three things that you're really trying to communicate? And let's, let's bring it back up to that level, and then use stories to talk about the individual impact of the programs, right? So tell the story of, Marjorie, who, was coming out of homelessness and addiction and needed to overcome those. And the program was there and available because
Bria Arline (07:35)
Right.
David Chatham (07:46)
The grantors were able to help fund it for another year, And here's what that looks like. So, Marjorie's a hero, the grantors are a hero, the staff are a hero. Everybody kind of comes out of it as a win, but you're not talking about the program as some nebulous deliverable, you're putting it down into a personal level. And that to me is, you you start...
kind of big and then when you come down, you get personal with it, right? And I think that's what moves a lot of people. I don't know, do grantors respond to emotion or is it all about the numbers?
Bria Arline (08:15)
Yeah.
You know, it really depends on who you're talking to. If you're looking at the big federal grants, a lot of that's gonna be black and white. But you're writing for people. They're reading application after application after application. They're bored, they're tired. They just had a fight with their spouse and they're sleep deprived.
David Chatham (08:38)
Hahaha!
Right.
Bria Arline (08:42)
And so if you can write it in a way where it's compelling, where data isn't just data, it's actually woven into a story, it makes your proposal stand out that much more and it makes reviewers that much more passionate about defending what you do.
David Chatham (08:48)
Yes.
I think, I'd be curious your thoughts on it. Because, you know, we don't do grants at Angel Oak, right? That's why we love partnering with you and other folks like you. So, if we can help get them to that place where they have that clarity of their foundation, the clarity of those stories, when they do work and engage with you, we hope that they're better prepared.
Like you said, you can maybe tell that they're Angel Oak clients, So that's our goal. We're not gonna write the grant for them, but we're gonna help hopefully equip them when they come to you that you're gonna be able to hit the ground running and not have to spend six months trying to figure out what they do or who they are,
Bria Arline (09:30)
Yeah, it seriously helps. And especially if we're looking at private funding, private funding is a whole different ballgame. it's very much I like to liken it to actually, honestly, talking to people, even though with federal grants, it's you're still talking to people with private grants. You could have. Not the greatest programming, but if you tell the better story, you're more likely to get the grant. I can't explain why, except that.
there's just less black and white, which we love. You can actually experiment with private funding. You can do the crazy things that the government's just not prepared to fund. So it's important to be prepared to be able to speak to those private foundations, those community foundations, those other avenues of funding that rely so heavily on the communication and the story. Now, please do have everything else in check. We have a way to measure outcomes and all the other fun things, but.
David Chatham (09:58)
Yeah.
Yeah.
I like
that you talk about, none of us really like to think about the nonprofit space as being competitive, right? but in some cases there are limited dollars available, That for grants, especially, they may have a limit that they're giving out each year. So the competition is certainly more about that particular grant than it is about funding in general, I mean, I think there's more money than we could ever spend if people
Bria Arline (10:31)
Mm-hmm.
David Chatham (10:46)
and they gave that. But with grants, there is a finite amount that most grantors are giving within a given period, So from a competition standpoint, think, would you say the messaging % of the grant writing? mean, is that fair? Is it 25 %?
Bria Arline (10:47)
Hmm.
David Chatham (11:07)
from a competitive standpoint, how important is it?
Bria Arline (11:10)
I've never quantified it. It's definitely critical. I can't see you getting a grant if you don't have this in place. Even just from the fact of sustainability, a lot of times they'll ask us, how are you going to be sustainable? Well, if you can't raise funds outside of grants, then I can't really answer that question. But if you're not going be able to raise funding outside of grants if you don't have effective marketing and communication.
David Chatham (11:11)
Put you on the spot here.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think anything that an organization you can do to help them stand out above the rest, especially when it comes to grants, I think that any advantage they can get, right, is worth.
Bria Arline (11:47)
Mm.
David Chatham (11:48)
some kind of investment. I think that's the challenge a lot of nonprofits face is they want to do this, but, is it wise, is it valuable for them to invest that money, when they invest with you all and, want to get into the grant process.
there's a little risk there, right? Just like when they engage us for communications or a website or any of that, there's a sense of risk there. And, you know, well, I can't promise anybody that what we do is gonna, raise them another hundred thousand dollars or whatever. I think what we can do is to say, what we found is that when our clients undertake this kind of work, they see a more engaged audience, they see a more
robust fundraising opportunities. They see a faster ability to deliver on grants without having to recreate the wheel every single time. So I do think there's value there. Some of it's tangible in terms of fundraising ROI and some of it's probably intangible in terms of capacity and efficiencies.
Bria Arline (12:48)
That is absolutely correct. We like to tell our clients, even if you don't win a grant, if you've put the labor into defining that program, defining the outcomes, noting all the questions that they ask and all the questions that you have to go back and wrestle with your team about, that's something you don't have to do again. And sometimes it'll eliminate some other areas like, well, maybe we shouldn't be doing it like this because this is a much better way of doing it.
So, know, like that, feel working with you is an investment that will give you a return, whether or not you see it immediately in funding or just, hey, we know exactly. I can engage my board. I can give my board a one-pager and they now know how to go talk to their friends and people they run into about our nonprofit. That's kind of huge just for the executive director.
David Chatham (13:30)
Yeah, and I think that consistency is so undervalued as well because when someone asks what your particular nonprofit is doing and, they are possibly going to hear three different answers, that can be a little confusing and they're like, wait a minute, I didn't, I thought you did this. so just being as clear as you can to grantors and, making sure that
That message really solid is a critical, as you said, a critical part of all those communications, but especially in helping that communicate it clearly to those who hold the purse strings.
IQ Ignited (14:06)
We really hope you are learning something new about the art of good communication and how storytelling and grants intersect. While David and Bria take just a quick break, we are going to answer one of your burning questions. As a reminder, this is a segment each week where we take a listener question about the grants and fundraising world, and we help to decode or simplify a topic you have questions about. So today's question is,
Can a good marketing plan help us win more grants? This is a wonderful question. Marketing actually plays a huge role in winning grants. For instance, great marketing can help you attract Envi only funders. I read an article recently on greatwatch.com that stated 67 % of corporate funders and 77 % of private foundations are Envi only. How can you approach funders
if they won't accept your proposal or even letter of inquiry.
while a strong brand and effective communication plan can help you get the attention of funders who align with your mission. And when you get the opportunity to meet with the foundation's team, you can reuse your well-crafted marketing materials like a one-page flyer to clearly and effectively communicate your goals. You can even send this information ahead of time so your executive director or development team can spend that crucial short time listening and asking deep questions.
which hopefully helps you to gain a new funder. In short, an investment in your marketing can increase your ROI in all aspects of your fundraising and especially for grants. So I hope that helped answer that question. Again, if you have a question about the grants and fundraising world that you would like us to tackle, just send us a message or an email and we'll add it to our list.
All right, now let's get back to our conversation with Bria and David.
Bria Arline (16:06)
So in working with you, do you help them pinpoint who their audience most likely is?
David Chatham (16:12)
We try to, I we, we use a little very simplistic kind of bullseye, right? And we draw, I actually literally draw a target on our whiteboard and we start with the inner circle and say, okay, who are your primary audiences? who are you trying to engage? And the way that we define that isn't necessarily most important because usually the most important audience are the recipients of the programs, right?
It's more so what audience needs the most resources put towards them to engage. In most nonprofits cases, you don't have to let people know you're there to help because most audiences know that Raleigh Rescue Mission or Healing Transitions is there to help with addiction. And while that's not always the case, usually your recipient audience is generally aware of the work that you're doing.
Usually it's more so the donors, the grantors, the municipalities, those other audiences that are making decisions that impact your organization, whether it be funding, legislation, all of those things. So we start with that center bullseye, and usually there's one or two audiences in there, and often that's donors. It could be recipients if there's a fee-for-service type of model that we need to make sure more people are aware of the services and...
and how they can engage. It could be their influencer audience. So it could be folks who are engaged in the conversations around their particular topic. But usually it's one or two. Then we go out into what we call the secondary audience. And these might be people who are influencing policy. So this could be the legislators, or it could be people who are ABC boards or those sorts of organizations. It could be partners.
other nonprofits. And then finally, the tertiary level, that third level is the more general public It's the more where you're not able to put as much resources to it, but there's still a benefit to communicating. So really that inner circle, that target, that bullseye is what audiences require the most resources. And that's the way we look at it in terms of those audiences. Did that answer your question or did I go off on a tangent?
Bria Arline (18:02)
Mm.
I love
No, no, we it. you have broad community awareness and support, the grants will come. It's not if it's when. So in working with you, just it helps so much on the sustainability end and even on accelerating when we get to see those results. I love that you pinpoint potential partnerships because that's huge. It helps you do your program well and it lets the funders know if you are looking at grants.
David Chatham (18:22)
you
Yeah.
Bria Arline (18:46)
Hey, this organization has the resources both internally and through partnerships have a real impact.
David Chatham (18:52)
And we've seen that with so many of our clients where, three or four years ago when we had first started with them, they weren't receiving grants from many of organizations with whom they're receiving grants now. And that what made a difference was that they were communicating with them, not just at grant time, right?
Bria Arline (19:09)
Thank you.
David Chatham (19:09)
but in between
and helping them to see how are they collaborating with other nonprofits? What impact are they
I guess my question to you, this will help me understand better. Is that something that you can do with grantors? Can you reach out to them in between those grant cycles and just let them know what's going on? is that, I guess it depends on the grantor,
Bria Arline (19:30)
is a giant yes that's screaming out of my head for visual. It would be right with exclamation points. Yes, you absolutely need to do that. And that's one of the reasons why we encourage our clients to pay special attention to those reports that funders are asking for. It's not a matter of just write it and send it off. Include pictures, include stories, include really good content. Hey, if you are featured on the news, put that in your report. If your
David Chatham (19:44)
Yeah.
Love it.
Bria Arline (19:53)
participant won an award, put that in the report. Put the funder on your mailing list, at least your point of contact, let them get your newsletter, let them get your annual report. Any way you can do to just build that deeper relationship, be creative. Even with government funders, you usually have one point of contact. Please, when you reach out to them, don't just reach out to them when there's a problem. If there's something...
David Chatham (19:56)
Yeah.
Bria Arline (20:14)
exceptional going on. They want to know about that because it helps them lobby for that program to get funded again.
David Chatham (20:20)
I love it. Yeah, I think that's great. Mean, when we're working with our clients, one of the tools that we recommend is an impact report.
a little different than annual report, It doesn't necessarily get into the finances or that. It's more about what is the impact that's being made. And we've actually, for some clients, we've actually produced custom impact reports for that particular funder to see how their money has been used. And...
Bria Arline (20:44)
Mmm.
David Chatham (20:47)
They've been so well They're not super polished. Well, but they're not, it doesn't cost thousands and thousands of dollars, we'll a little time for the client, put together a really specific piece related to their funding and what impact it's made. And we've gotten such great feedback from
those funders and just that they appreciated the effort Otherwise, if you send a big report, they kind of have to read between the lines to see where they made a difference, So if it's a significant funder, it depends on the organization how you would define significant, but...
Bria Arline (21:10)
Yeah.
David Chatham (21:19)
for this organization, was a couple of hundred thousand dollars, right? so they spent a couple of thousand dollars and produced this very custom impact report. And they were very thankful that they received the report. And they're able to go to their board, And say, look at the difference we're making with this organization, with this work. And it's a great tool. So something to consider. It makes sense for
Bria Arline (21:37)
Yes.
David Chatham (21:42)
every single funder or every single nonprofit, but it is a great way to engage someone with their specific impact and their specific story.
Bria Arline (21:52)
love that as just a great way to reach out to the funder and make them feel like they're the only funder that you really care about, even though you care about all of your partners. You know, they're like your nonprofit. They're overworked. They have far too little time. I mean, I think I'm thinking what your impact reports are a page or two. Just to receive that.
David Chatham (21:58)
Right. That's right.
That's right.
Yeah, well,
probably there are four, right? It's probably two two-sided pages, that we do. includes some statistics, it includes some stories, it includes some pictures, and just really helps to paint a narrative of what that work is. So we do try to keep it simple. We don't try to make it overly complex, but we want them to get a good sense of that this is making an impact.
Bria Arline (22:15)
and
David Chatham (22:38)
So, but it could certainly be on a smaller scale of one page or two page, and I think it would still have a good response.
Bria Arline (22:45)
Well, four is even better. I'm thinking of the things we put together for our clients, the grantors are, they're usually pre-proposal and it's a one-pager and everything has to fit on that one page and we're just like, I need the highlights. I love that they're able to get the highlights, but then go deeper as necessary without digging through 11 pages or however long that annual report is.
David Chatham (22:47)
Well.
Sure.
That's right.
I think so.
Yeah. you thinking for 2025 as far as the grant world go? How can we help our clients maybe think about that? I don't know about you all, but this year was a little strange for many of our clients. Some did really well, some kind of met what they were hoping and some fell
I think the commonality is just we had the election, we had the COVID money kind of wrapping up. We had a lot of that, those things happening. So we're seeing some different results than we've seen the past few years. What do you think what's happening with grants? I'm turning the tables here a little, I'm sorry, but what do you think 2025 looks like? What should we help our clients prepare for when it comes to grants and communications to grantors
Bria Arline (23:34)
Mm.
There you go.
I think be prepared to rely pretty heavily on private funding. Know who your people are and how to engage with them.
David Chatham (24:03)
opposed to like federal funding or municipal funding, government funding. Is that what you're saying?
Bria Arline (24:08)
Well, yes and no, it depends on where your program lands. So for instance, I think some research into the administration's agenda versus the incoming administration's agenda, just apply some critical thinking lenses here.
David Chatham (24:10)
Okay.
Okay.
Yes.
Bria Arline (24:21)
want to take a look at the stock market, see where it closed and this might be some good opportunity, for those private foundations. lot of them pulled back giving at least with our clients, thinking about, COVID money is drawing up inflation went through the roof. So you've got less money, nonprofit, all the nonprofits needing it. And then you had funders trying to readjust. Okay, what what what do we do? What's happening? But if they have a good year,
then you can look at, okay, well can approach those smaller family foundations actually I was in a meeting with a community foundation webinar and they were talking about their list of donor advised funds and they actually gave out the list and the names of the persons who own the donor advised funds were on the list.
David Chatham (24:58)
Hmm.
Wow.
Bria Arline (25:05)
And you can literally just start reaching out. Hey, we saw that you have some money and said Community Foundation. It's ready to give away. We think you're going to care about our cause. Here it is. Maybe just put together.
David Chatham (25:07)
Why?
That's amazing.
You don't hear that. That's unusual, right?
Bria Arline (25:18)
It is unusual. I was so excited. I think it needs to happen more.
David Chatham (25:22)
I know. Well, I mean,
the idea is the people put their money into these donor-advised funds in order to be able to spend it wisely and strategically and also just from a tax perspective, right? So, I love that idea. that's an interesting, because most of the donor-advised funds that I am aware of hold that information really close, They don't really talk about who they're...
investors are or who those donors, advised funds owners are. So I love that they're willing to share that. that's a great move. that sets the bar really high for folks like that. think everybody ought to do that.
Bria Arline (25:55)
agree. Now to be fair, they didn't just give out contact the advised funds, they're not very creatively named. So it's, you know, it's Fed family donor advised fund. actually was talking to a consultant friend of mine, and he had some great advice of, if you get a donor advised fund check, call the organization that if it's a smaller organization that's actually handling the donor advised funds and see if you get some information. Or, I love the idea of just making
David Chatham (25:58)
Sure.
Bria Arline (26:20)
connections and building relationships with persons who can guide those donor advised funds. So much money is
David Chatham (26:24)
and I've even
heard of some, and we've helped some nonprofits do this, that fund doesn't provide the information, they'll at least share the communication from the organization to the funder so that they get that information. And oftentimes that funder will reach out independently and follow up to say thank you or whatever. So just getting a little creative about that and
Bria Arline (26:35)
and
David Chatham (26:48)
providing a card or a letter or something tangible that can be forwarded and handed to that donor from the fund, it's a little step removed, but it shows that you care and that you're grateful for that time. So I like that. I think that's a great step.
Bria Arline (27:05)
I love that idea. just when you have your communication down, you're able to put together something really quickly, something meaningful and
David Chatham (27:11)
Yeah,
definitely helps with capacity, right, and efficiency.
Bria Arline (27:14)
Yeah, I feel
like a lot of fundraising. never easy. It oftentimes is the extra legwork. But, you know, if you put in the extra legwork that everyone often doesn't have the capacity to do, you get the opportunities that no one else has.
David Chatham (27:30)
I think so. You're not playing catch up all the time, at least, I think any time a nonprofit can feel like they're ahead of the game a little bit, I think is a bonus. They're not chasing something or they're not feel like they're behind.
because I'm guessing 50 % of grantors want to know what your strategic plan is, or that you have one anyway. not having to go back at the last minute and say, yeah, we need to build a strategic plan, Or we need to build a communications plan or a donor engagement plan. So being strategic about all of that.
Bria Arline (27:57)
Yeah.
David Chatham (28:00)
will pay off, it may take investment and some focus, but I believe it all pays off in the end.
Bria Arline (28:08)
Always. Well, David, we could
Well, David, how can we find you if we want to learn more about your service?
David Chatham (28:12)
sure. Yeah. AngelOakCreative.com
is our web address. We're also on LinkedIn and Facebook. AngelOakCreative on LinkedIn and I think it's AngelOak on Facebook. I may be wrong. I'm an awful marketer, right? But people can reach out to me directly at David at AngelOakCreative.com. Happy to receive any emails there.
Bria Arline (28:35)
Awesome. Well, David, thank you and everyone at Angel Creative for what you do to further philanthropy, to help nonprofits feel like they can breathe again. We really appreciate you.
David Chatham (28:44)
Well, you too, Bria. Thank you all at IQ Ignited and all the work that you guys are doing. You're making us all better. So thank you.