Defining Hospitality

Today’s episode provides listeners access to a session from Hospitality Sustainable Design Collaborative that Dan Ryan recently got to speak during. The webinar emphasizes the importance of sustainability in the hospitality industry. Collaborating with Marriott, Hilton, Hyatt, and Highgate Hotels, the initiative aims to educate industry professionals on climate health, equity, and carbon footprint reduction. The session highlights the significant environmental impact of packaging and showcases how companies like Berman Falk are innovating by using recyclable materials, reducing waste, and lowering carbon emissions. The broader discussion includes the financial and operational impacts of climate change, the role of sustainable practices in mitigating these effects, and how industry players can contribute to long-term environmental and economic resilience.

Takeaways: 
  • Focus on initiatives that make travelers feel cared for while incorporating sustainability into your operations. This shows your commitment to both hospitality and environmental stewardship.
  • Partner with major brands and contribute to educational programs that train your staff on climate health and equity.
  • Implement tools like MindClick to simplify sustainability assessment. Evaluate products based on their entire life cycle and use this intelligence to make more sustainable choices in design and purchasing.
  • Recognize and support leaders within your organization and industry who champion sustainability, such as those leading efforts in major hotel chains. Share their successes and innovations to inspire others.
  • Establish clear metrics to measure the impact of your sustainability programs. Track engagement and success rates from educational initiatives and incorporate these learnings into your strategic planning.
  • Break down complex sustainability information into manageable insights for your team. Use simplified frameworks and tools to make sustainability a more approachable and executable component of your operations.
  • Transition to more sustainable packaging options, such as honeycomb cardboard, to reduce waste and carbon emissions. Clearly communicate these changes to all stakeholders involved in production and logistics.

Quote of the Show: 
“Every hotel provides an experience for our guests and the ability to not only tell a story through design but tell a story that has a purpose and intention with respect to addressing the challenges that we all face with climate change.” - JoAnna Abrams

Links:
Shout Outs:
Ways to Tune In: 

Creators & Guests

Host
Dan Ryan
Host of Defining Hospitality
Producer
Rayanne Pruitt

What is Defining Hospitality?

Welcome to Defining Hospitality, the podcast focused on highlighting the most influential figures in the hospitality industry. In each episode we provide 1 on 1, in depth interviews with experts in the industry to learn what hospitality means to them. We feature expert advice on working in the industry, behind the scenes looks at some of your favorite brands, and in depth explorations of unique hospitality projects.

Defining Hospitality is hosted by Founder and CEO of Agency 967, Dan Ryan. With over 30 years of experience in hospitality, Dan brings his expertise and passion to each episode as he delves into the latest trends and challenges facing the industry.

Episodes are released every week on Wednesday mornings.

To listen to episodes, visit https://www.defininghospitality.live/ or subscribe to Defining Hospitality wherever you get your podcasts.

DH - HSDC
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[00:00:00] What I do is inconsequential. Why I do what I do is I get to shorten people's journeys every day. What I love about our hospitality industry is that it's our mission to make people feel cared for while on their journeys. Together we'll explore what hospitality means in the built environment, in business, and in our daily lives.

I'm Dan Ryan and this is Defining Hospitality.

Hey everyone, welcome to a special edition of Defining Hospitality. Uh, today we're going to do something a little different. Um, one of the things I love, one of the many things I love about podcasts is that there's not really any rules so we can do whatever we want, um, within reason. No, we can still do whatever we want.

So in today's episode, um, I'm going to share a recording of a webinar we did a few weeks ago with MindClick, uh, that focuses on simplifying sustainability and design. and procurement for projects for hotel renovation projects specifically. the focus of this webinar is really on packaging, [00:01:00] which is really an essential, but often misunderstood and quite frequently overlooked topic in our industry.

Um, as many of you know, I'm a partner at Berman Falk or many of you may not know. I'm a partner at Burma Falk and we've been working closely with MindClick over the past couple of years. Their approach goes beyond just looking at certifications and labels. They've created this really cool platform, uh, that evaluates products throughout the lifecycle from cradle to cradle.

the goal is really to help companies like ours make informed decisions. And impactful decisions about sustainability, um, and other ESG important things. Um, and I'd like to share a personal story about why this work matters to us. So at Berman Falk, one of our values centers on continuous improvement.

We're a very values driven company. Uh, we realized early on that one of the simplest and most impactful changes we could make was in our packaging. Again, like I said, it's often an overlooked part of a project, but it has [00:02:00] massive effect, um, Upstream and downstream with respect to waste and emissions. So we as a company made the bold decision to eliminate all EPS foam from our packaging materials.

So that's like the, the hard polystyrene foam. You probably know some people really freak out when you rub them together. I don't know if you ever see those things come up on your read field, but like when styrofoam rubs together and people get like nauseous, it's pretty funny. Um, so now we're using recyclable and sustainable corrugated kind of honeycomb shaped forms that are in all of our rollouts for all of our guest room furniture shipments.

Uh, it's really reducing our waste footprint significantly. And, uh, I can't wait after a year and more and beyond to see like what the actual measurable impact was from making this switch and I think it's profound because if you go to any um hotel installation where they're doing a major rooms renovation [00:03:00] the amount of dumpsters of packaging and packaging material and styrofoam is really like it makes me feel bad um you know you need everything to get there safe and be.

In good shape when it gets there. Otherwise you have a really big punch list to deal with. Um, so this change was really inspired by MindClick's product intelligence platform, intelligence platform, which, you know, measures. A way to assess how we perform and also gives us like visibility on how we can drive continual improvement again, aligning with, um, aligning with our values.

So what's even more exciting is that we're the first in our industry to do this for furniture. So we're really eager for others to follow suit. In our hospitality space, uh, with respect to providing product What I love about this and sharing this and mind click show, like giving us the mirror to look at, to see how we can improve sustainability.

Isn't [00:04:00] about keeping and hoarding IP or intellectual property, like. this might be. It's really about open source collaboration to make a profound difference together. So in this recorded webinar, Joanna Abrams, the founder of MindClick will break down their system and explain how it helps companies like Berman Falk and others make better choices about sustainability.

And then I'll share how we at Berman Falk applied these learnings to drive better sustainability outcomes in our packaging process. So together, um, We'll discuss how anyone, uh, whether in design, procurement, manufacturing can start making incremental changes like this, that I think will add up and have a massive, massive impact.

so thank you for joining us on this special edition of Defining Hospitality as we continue to explore new ways to innovate. inspire and also make meaningful contributions to our industry. So please join me and Joanna as we dive into the webinar. And [00:05:00] I hope y'all find it as eye opening and motivating as we did.

Again, I think the downstream and measurable impact after a year or two is going to be incredible. And it just ties into that quote. I often say from one of my favorite books, the power of one, a waterfall starts with just one drop of water. Enjoy.

morning. Good afternoon. Good evening for our friends who are joining us, um, internationally. Welcome to the third in the, uh, five part series of our education session that's part of the Hospitality Sustainable Design Collaborative. We're excited to have you here. We appreciate all the time that you're taking to really dive into this, uh, subject matter and support of sustainability in our hospitality industry.

So with that, let's go ahead and get started. So, um, first off, we want to talk just a moment about the Hospitality Sustainable Design Collaborative.

For those of you who are just joining for the first time, [00:06:00] um, this is a very, very exciting initiative that we have created in collaboration with Marriott, Hilton, Hyatt, and Highgate Hotels. You can think about this as a breakthrough approach for teaching. The design and purchasing folks in our industry, how to support climate health and equity in every project and to support the commitment to sustainability.

We have created a credentialing program and that also helps brands, owners and operators to ensure that the design partners, purchasing partners that they choose are really equipped to support the sustainability goals that they all share. And it's a forum for innovation, and you're going to see some of that today.

So, um, I want to take a moment to really, uh, shout out and thank Lori Williang for her leadership in making this happen. Uh, we have worked with Marriott for quite a long time in this journey to bring sustainability to the world.

to the suppliers and vendors who are [00:07:00] in our world of FF& E and beyond. But also, there's been a lot of work around trying to ensure that the design community understands the importance of sustainability. And with Lori's leadership, we have built a program that is not only led by Marriott, but we brought in Hilton, Hyatt, Highgate, and Um, uh, encouraging others to join as well in an industry wide solution, um, recognizing the importance of education universally as well as the accreditation to demonstrate the commitment to the knowledge that, uh, is being shared and learned as well as recognition.

And uh, thank you to Ashley Michaels, Paul McElroy, Rebecca Weinstein, and Fred Branstrader Uh, from Hilton, Highgate, and Hyatt Hotels, respectively, for their commitment, leadership, and, uh, really vision to bring this all together in collaboration, [00:08:00] uh, with, with Marriott for the industry. So, with that, I'd like to share some, some very exciting stats.

In our first session, we had over 515 registrants, a total of 230 designers attended, representing 70 different design firms across 18 countries. so much for joining us. Our second session, the first one was around climate change and carbon emissions. The second was around circularity. We had 214 designers attend and 10 participating countries.

These sessions are also available for folks to view at a time that works for them. And in total, there are over 500 participating designers who are taking the time to Watch these videos to really learn and understand what do we mean when we talk about sustainability in the hospitality industry and, uh, what, how to really understand the very specific ways in which they can, you all can make an impact as you're making your design and [00:09:00] specification choices.

Um, so we encourage you all to, um, keep joining us with this and thank you for your commitment to all of it. So when we really take a step back and think about our work together and our collaboration is that together we have the power to create something that's beautiful and good for both our industry and for the world, every hotel provides an experience for our guests and the ability to.

Not only tell a story through design, but tell a story that has a purpose and intention with respect to addressing the challenges that we all face with climate change. So with that, one last bit of background, which is who is MindClick? We know that there are many of you who know very well who we are. There are others who are really just learning about MindClick for the first time. So we try to convey what we do in a very simple image because that's what we're about.

We're really about sustainability made simple. We know that, [00:10:00] um, all of you are, um, overwhelmed with the amount that we all have to do in a given day. And it's really hard to keep on top of all of the information that falls under the umbrella of sustainability. And when, You're presented with a quote unquote sustainable product.

What does that actually mean? MindClick breaks it down and we call what we do product intelligence and it applies to every product. So not just products that may be out there with equal labels or certifications. What we do is we break down the entire product life cycle and evaluate performance against the sustainability metrics that are universally accepted and provide that ability not only to help you as the designer understand.

relative performance so you can compare just as you do for all other aspects of your design specification choices. But we also provide the solution for the suppliers, the vendors in our program to understand where they are in their journey and what they can do to improve that performance over time.

The key things we're really [00:11:00] focused on is helping to understand how are these products performing when it comes to reducing carbon emissions, Reducing waste, supporting circularity, the ability to reuse, repurpose that product at the end of its useful life, support for healthy interiors, and then social responsibility, both DEI as well as Fair Labor Practices and Human Rights.

We have hundreds of suppliers who are in our program, um, just a few of whom are featured here. We are covering thousands of products across more than 30 categories. And over a thousand factories worldwide in which we are helping suppliers get on the journey of actually measuring their carbon footprint and putting in place programs to reduce those through whether it's efficiency measures or whether it's access to renewable energy.

And our data is being integrated into design and purchasing, not only through brand standards, but individual projects. As a result of our work with brand standards, we are impacting what the story and the, [00:12:00] Environmental and social responsibility performance is of over 6, 000 hotels across North America.

Key metrics around sustainably sourced and healthier materials, lower embodied carbon, reduced construction waste, circular product solutions, supporting local sourcing. Qualified diversity suppliers, and then we're not only doing this for brand standards, we do this project by project where we are brought in at the beginning of projects to work collaboratively with design and purchasing teams to help guide the selections and the purchasing decisions in support of a better environmental and social impact.

So what we do applies to every product, it applies to every project, and we're excited to Have you all on the journey to support our progress for the industry overall. So with that, I'm going to move us into our packaging specific session, and we're going to talk about how the choices that are being made with respect to the design of packaging [00:13:00] not only has an impact on waste, but also the impact on carbon emissions.

Before we do so, I want to just provide a little bit of context and thinking about why all of this matters. And we will follow our session with, uh, Berman Falk, PI FineArt, and Moran Giles, and presenting specifically on their initiatives as it relates to packaging.

So diving right in. Well, when we talk about. The world of sustainability. There are a lot of different definitions of, um, what falls under that umbrella. And when you look throughout a product life cycle, oftentimes what, um, you hear spoken about are focused around materials and chemicals. So the sourcing of those materials and the avoidance of known chemicals of concern.

But when we step back and look at the biggest challenge that we all face, especially in our industry. It's climate change and climate change directly driven by [00:14:00] carbon emissions. Why is this such a big problem for us? Well, we're all seeing the effects of catastrophic events. \

We, the world economy, Lost four and a quarter percent of global, of GDP. So that we all felt that we all knew what that experience was. So if we do nothing on this journey, in terms of what's happening right now, with respect to increasing temperatures and climate change, the expectation for the impact of the global economy is a 10 percent loss.

So imagine two and a half times what we experienced during COVID. If we all do our part to keep the temperature from increasing any more than 1. 5 degrees, that number is falling somewhere in the six to seven percent. So we're still seeing an impact, but not nearly as bad. And that impact, [00:15:00] not only is it in the catastrophic events we're experiencing, but It's in supply chain disruption.

So what we felt we've been dealing with through the past six months or so, simultaneous disruptions in goods coming from Asia, the Suez Canal as a result of conflict and war, which arguably is impacted by climate change, and then the Panama Canal, Which because of the drought, the water levels are too low for the big cargo ships to go through.

So they've had to unload packaging and put it on product and put it on smaller ships to get it through. And we all know that the saying in our industry every day that hotel isn't open, right? Is a lost day. So these are real impacts that we're facing and it doesn't matter where you live, that this is happening, right?

The other thing that's connected to this is we're seeing a change in insurance. So the commercial, um, the average monthly cost of insurance for commercial buildings is expected to [00:16:00] increase by approximately 10 percent in the next six years. Um, and that's based again on looking at some historical data.

Some places, um, insurance is becoming unattainable. One of the things we're seeing in travel behavior is a pretty interesting term that Condé Nast Traveler Magazine coined. For 2024, which is coolcationing, and that is travelers seeking to go to destinations where they're not dealing with blistering temperatures, um, fewer crowds has also been cited.

So we are seeing, you know, changes in behavioral pattern where decisions are made on building hotels in certain locations based upon historical context. All of that and more is being affected. So. How does that affect all of you as designers? Well, when we think about the product's life cycle, there are a lot of ways in which carbon falls into that or is part of that.

Making the product, the packaging, the shipping, the actual [00:17:00] use stage, so how that product is either helping or hindering that hotel from operating as efficiently as possible, meaning using the least amount of energy possible, and then what you do with the product at the end of its life. Our product intelligence gathers all of this data and helps you make sense of it.

So let's focus on packaging. Why packaging in all of this? Well, packaging has two factors to it. One, of course, is waste, and the other is the carbon impact. So, on average, every product uses 30 percent more packaging than needed. We all experience this. We all shop at Amazon, we shop at other places, we see what comes into our homes, and usually are asking the question, why is there so much extra packaging for something that is so small, right?

So when you think about the energy, which is energy is converted into carbon emissions through various calculation factors that are tied to the source of that energy, [00:18:00] there's energy in to create the packaging. We're converting materials such as our trees into packaging. Other types of petrochemicals are going into plastics and the like, right?

So the creation of the materials and getting those materials, packaging materials to a manufacturer's factory, right? Right. Right. All takes energy. And then the actual amount and type of packaging used has a direct impact on where that packaging goes, as well as how many products you can actually fit on a carrier to get it from the factory gate to the hotel, um, or to a warehouse.

Um, so the less packaging, the fewer, um, truckloads, right? And the more product you can store in a given area. And then the third impact is for the recipient of that, they've got to do something with that packaging now, right? And hopefully that packaging is 100 percent [00:19:00] recyclable, but it still takes energy to move that packaging from the job site to the facility.

Recycling stream, and if it's a mixed package where it's both has some things that are recyclable and others aren't, unfortunately, too much of that ends up in the landfill. So, um, we take this information and provide it as part of the guidance in design and purchasing decisions.

And when those dumpsters are filled and they're meant to be, um, used for other, um, construction waste to go into. And that project is delayed. And, uh, we can do it differently. We can all do it better, right? We can do it better by going upstream and saying, how do we look at the, the approach to packaging today?

What can we change? How can we make it better through reducing the amount of packaging, the materials that go into the packaging itself? Um, and then in addition for you as designers. Is your thinking about your specifications? It's asking another question, right? Asking the [00:20:00] vendors that you're working with, hey, can you talk about what you're doing in packaging?

Because you can see the impact that it's having here, and that's a direct and immediate impact to each particular job site. But the other impact that is the big impact that all of us are facing collectively, even when we're not working on a project, is the embodied carbon story. This is associated with packaging and by working together to reduce two simultaneous challenges, both packaging and carbon, we're doing so much to not only protect, um, our, our industry, but also, um, support all of the people that our industry serves.

So I am excited to introduce Dan Ryan and have him share what Berman Falk is doing to help solve this problem upstream. Thank you, Joanna. Um, thank you everyone and thank you to HSDC. Um, packaging is, uh, [00:21:00] it's not sexy.

But it has a huge, huge impact. And what I'll say is, I'm going to talk for a few minutes here, but it's really just, there's three main points I want to get across as I'm talking, but it's really, this whole conversation is about values, it's about impact, and it's about collaboration. Um, I guess on the value side, I'll get into that for a second, but really, I just want to thank you, Joanna, and this platform that you built with MindClick, because without you and leaders like Marriott, Hyatt, Hilton, um, Sinesta, uh, and all the, all the other independents that are out there, I don't think that we would have gotten this, um,

I don't know, groundswell of support and measurement that really we can affect change. Um, so just to tell you a little bit about what Burma Falk is and who we are, uh, we're a design driven, case good, and seeding manufacturer. We specialize in three to five star. Hotel guest room properties and projects.

Um, everything [00:22:00] is custom from the beginning to the end. Um, and I, I don't know if you can see it up here. I think it's that one. I became a Lead AP in 2008, so it's like almost 16 years ago. And what's really frustrating about, I, I love Lead and I love what that started, but it doesn't really affect what I spend most of my time doing with FF& E.

And MindClick is really the first platform that provided us with a way to measure. Um, and if you can measure something, you can change something. And I know that we're, you know, Joanna was talking about just, Temperature increases over the plan and everything else. Yes, that is dire, and we do need to get ahead of that.

But I almost can't get my head around that. What I can get my head around are these little sprints and little measurements. And going back to that platform idea of what MindClick has created, um, when we first went through the process, We were able [00:23:00] to source sustainably harvested hardwoods panels. We were able to manage and document, um, indoor air quality for, with respect to glues, lacquers, stains, finishes.

however, all of that information and knowledge base were in people's heads, in file cabinets scattered throughout our footprint around the globe. MindClick has helped us do is get all of that out and into a cohesive system, where, um, we could see how we could improve. Now, I did say that You know, a lot of this is, is values driven.

And we have a lot of values. We have five values at Berman Fog. I won't go into all of them, but one of them is really, it's excellence. And it's not just excellence at the top line. It's really, we're really tenacious about delivering results day in and day out. Excellence for us, it's not just a goal. It's really a habit.

And how do you create a habit? You measure, you adjust, you change. Because whatever got us to where we are, [00:24:00] today or yesterday is not going to get us to where we are in the future. Again, MindClick from this full lifecycle assessment, they gave us a numerical platform that we could look at and adjust from.

And one of the areas that we saw that where we could affect the greatest movement and the greatest positive effect, um, was in packaging. So what we did was, We looked at one aspect of our packaging, which is EPS foam, which is expandable polystyrene foam. to put us in context about working on three to five star custom hotel projects, in essence, our average hotel size is about 220 plus or minus rooms. In doing that, we're making, I don't know, if there's five to ten pieces of furniture in each room, that's about a thousand pieces of furniture. of furniture, um, that we are cartoning.

Now, when you, when you compare or [00:25:00] contrast that to larger manufacturers, um, they might make 10, 000 pieces of one thing where they can really dial in how their packaging goes and use some of these materials that were already out there in the market. I think that for us, uh, at Berman Falk and our competitors, we're so excited to be able to do away with this EPS foam because it is a That is out there.

It just takes a bit more planning, not just at the factory level, but also as the designers who are listening to this, even at your specification level, um, to really call out to not use this. Um, and what we have done, so this is kind of how things were done in the past. We would use EPS foam. Oops, sorry, there's a little bit of a lag here, and, but you can see how much, and going back to that red dumpster, um, in the last presentation, okay, you have your cardboard corrugated, then you have all this EPS foam, because We're packing it, it's getting [00:26:00] handled multiple times, and especially from wherever the warehouse is to getting into the room, it's touched by countless hands and increases the odds of damage, and we don't want to have damage when we're doing hotels, because, like Joanna said, there's a real cost to not being able to get the, the furniture into the rooms.

because these hotels are actually financial assets that must perform and show a return to their investors. Um, so what we did in 2024, when we looked at our, our ratings within MindClick, we said, well, how can we attack this? And we did a lot of research, our huge team around the globe, but just really looking at, um, using honeycomb, sustainable, sustainable honeycomb cardboard.

And it's really been incredible and going, I love the image of The red dumpster at the beginning, because now we just started doing this in the, I think in Q1 of this year, but now many of our projects are delivering now [00:27:00] where we first use this. And it's remarkable what we hear from the installation teams, um, and just the, the different kinds of waste.

It's a whole different waste stream that can be recycled. And it's just really exciting. And again, without MindClick and that framework and without leadership, like everyone that I mentioned before, from Highgate to Hilton to Marriott, uh, Synesta, IHG, um, and all the other independents, we wouldn't, there wouldn't really be a market need for this because there is this groundswell that is demanding all of this.

Um,

I do a little bit, we have a little video here just about like what this looks like. So this might help, um, kind of visualize. how it works. And we can speak specifically to this in the breakout session too, if anyone has any questions about how to address their specs, what they can do to affect change.

Because again, we call, we like to call this open, like, Again, MindClick gave [00:28:00] us this platform for, I'm going to call it open source R& D. Um, and I like to say R& D in an open source way can be rip off and duplicate. Like we are the first amongst our peers to do this for hospitality. Um, we want to be the first, we want people to copy us.

We want this to be, um, the industry standard. And again, Joanna and your platform, thank you for doing this. Um, so again, there is just extra planning that comes out. So, and there's a timing issue. So while this does exist out in the marketplace. Um, everything is on a schedule. So what we have to do, it's always a fire drill, just trying to get everything approved, trying to make sawdust and make furniture and get it through the lines.

But at the same time, if you imagine a Gantt chart, we have to start pre planning about, okay, what is the end size of this is going to be? What [00:29:00] other protections does it need to be? And then how can we model out what this honeycomb packaging looks like. Um, so again, it's a timing thing. It's not an impossible thing.

It's just, it's a time. And, and then there's the logistics. So the other thing is while this technology exists in many places, many of the manufacturers either don't have it in their factory.

Or it's, it's, they outsource a lot of their packaging from a packaging specialist. So it's really all about just trying to make this known to our manufacturing partners that, hey, this is important to us. You have this, you use this for this one line of retail furniture that you're doing, but let's tinker around and see how we can make this work for our hospitality projects.

Then there's testing. So again, There's all these international safe transit associations and other drop tests that you can do once you figure out the packaging and the weights and you have it in there to just properly document that how [00:30:00] this works. And again, it's, it's planning and again, planning takes time.

So it's just a matter of making sure that in your project management process, you have the time to really think about how to get all of this done.

So then we have the rollout, um, again, tested on individual products. Then it rolls out to the bigger orders and really. We just started delivering. So we're also in that idea of excellence. It's not just what got us here is going to get us here. We're taking the information as things are delivering, adjusting, taking data, and really creating this feedback loop and flywheel of continual improvement.

so the cost, this was actually really interesting. The cost is actually negligible. So while we were actually, and we were actually surprised to find this. So when you go into the R& D and rip off and duplicate and copy all of this, just know that cost should not be an issue. If you're planning for it, this is a cost that's easily, easily absorbable.

And then we're out of the loop. [00:31:00] On the installation side, usually that's managed by the ownership, um, or the general contractor, but I would, we don't have the data yet, but I would almost venture that the disposal cost of cardboard would be much less than the, than the foam. So even though it's negligible for us on the packaging side and on the product side, I think that net net, it'll be a savings, which is most important in an operating real estate asset.

So, I have this thing, I like to call it, um, when a new process or new technology or a new system is unveiled, um, there's three phases. There's the, uh, There's the storming, there's the forming, and then there's the norming. So, and this not just goes for us as a company, but it also goes for as an industry.

Um, when you introduce a new idea, there's usually storming around it. [00:32:00] Oh, we don't have change, we don't have time, we don't have this, we don't have that. Then once you start to see this continual improvement and savings, and it's just better for everyone and the planet, Uh, it becomes, it starts to form into a habit and then it becomes the norm.

So much in the same way that I talked about where lead really helped us change our supply chains and, um, what kind of products we were able to use and document. Um, it's now just the norm, like you can't buy. panels with added urea formaldehyde in it anymore. It just doesn't exist. Maybe you can for other countries, but not for the US.

Um, so with EPS foam, as far as extra plastic, um, we do still have to use some extra protection around our furniture. Um, and I think you saw that in the, one of the earlier photos, but it's an expanded, uh, polyethylene foam and it is recyclable. So put it into our into our cartons, but that is [00:33:00] recyclable when it gets there, but On a percentage basis, it's such a small part of the overall packaging, um, and it is recyclable.

So, and we do communicate that upward, leftward, sideways, downward to everyone. through the rollout, it's just also a good idea for like, we don't really do much at all in KD construction for furniture, so don't envision like IKEA, but there are larger panels like headboards, bed bases, that typically We do ship in a KD format because it wouldn't fit in the room, otherwise some larger RMRs.

Basically, what we found is, um, we've reduced the packaging by up to 44 percent on, um, some of our KD items, which is just also some things that we would do anyway, but now we can really look at it together on the pre planning side of a project. And I think we spoke about a lot of the cleanup in the beginning, uh, or in the previous episode or in the previous segment.

So again, it just makes it, there's a lot less waste. Um, so I also wanted to talk [00:34:00] about impact. So this whole idea of impact, like I know Marriott and MindClick have been working together, um, for years and years, maybe more than a decade. Um, but it also takes. People like where you saw Fred or Ashley or Paul, um, earlier, where they can go as, as a client and affect change and say, Hey, this, we want this to measure.

We want this to make changes. So again, while the global temperature rise is something that we should all be concerned about. Again, it's all these small changes that MindClick really helps us afford and that hopefully everyone, the 200 people here and then whoever listens to this recorded will also be able to affect change moving forward because it all takes these little parts.

And then here's a little video from Daniel.

So Berman Falk's commitment to ESG and sustainability, it's, it's really that we need to do something. [00:35:00] And, uh, you know, you're not going to solve all the world's goals in one shot. Um, you know, it'd be great if, if we were at a place where we could make, uh, biodegradable furniture and, and maybe one day that will happen, but really it's about making improvement, finding the areas where we do well and communicating that forward.

Uh, but more importantly is, is where do we have gaps in that process? Where can we improve and, and how can we initiate that change? Um, we've had a number of exciting things that we've been able to do. Uh, that have come from that holding up a mirror and kind of looking inward. Uh, we're, we're charting the path to remove all styrofoam from our packaging, uh, and replace it with recyclable content.

And, uh, as we look forward, we'll continue to find, uh, new, new initiatives that we can do, uh, each year to try and just contribute towards the goal of, of being more sustainable. So.

And again, [00:36:00] I think what really Daniel highlights there is kind of, is what I'm trying to convey. And what MindClick is conveying is that all of these impacts go way beyond packaging. So packaging is just one small step. To us, by looking at that cradle to cradle, uh, full, whole life analysis, we could see that Packaging was the lowest hanging fruit that we could affect change and just get it into our flywheel of continual improvement.

But really. It comes down to how you're writing specs, what brand standards are, what finishes you're selecting. Um, and all of these small choices have profound impacts.

And before I say thank you and sign off, I just, I want to go back to that idea of impact because, um, as a storyteller, um, and I think that that's what resonates most with everyone I've heard. We all talk about storytelling a lot, but I've heard of MindClick. For more than [00:37:00] a decade. Joanna, when did you got, what is it, 18?

19 years? 17? Not quite that long, but, uh, yeah, let's call it 13. 13, okay, great. and I've always been supportive. of Joanna's initiatives. But it, as a manufacturer, there's, there's an alphabet soup of things that we can do. And like, we have to prioritize what we do. But I remember sitting with Paul McElroy somewhere.

I don't remember if it was an airplane or an airport. Usually things happen in an airport or an airplane. Um, but he said, no, this is really good. I've done all this research. Like this, this is what we want to get behind because it really shows how not just you as a manufacturer can measure. But how we as an ownership development management company can affect change and look at our whole portfolio.

And then it's so exciting to see Marriott, Hyatt, Hilton, and all the other headliners on [00:38:00] the last slide, where they can look at their brand beyond that. And again, I bet you much in the same way that we at Berman Falk looked at Packaging where we could have the most improvement. And I bet you most of the other manufacturers listening to this, um, I think that they would have a very similar, um, path forward to, to progress.

But it's, if we, if we can't measure and affect this change and have this growing marketplace where really we can, as a portfolio, as a community, as an industry. look at how to affect change. it just becomes very difficult. So I just want to, again, thank Joanna and thank all the other leaders and supporters on this and the, and the continuing, um, HSDC just for the education, the credentialing, um, and just the ongoing recognition like this.

I think that all of these little drops of water are going to [00:39:00] turn into a giant Uh, Waterfall, for all of us. Um, and thank you.

Dan, thank you. Um, first off We do what we do to provide a way for manufacturers like yourselves to share your story with your, all your stakeholders, the designers, the brands, the ownership groups, the purchasing companies, the project management folks, because this topic is so big and so difficult for people to get their arms around, right?

And it's, There's hundreds of ecolabels and certifications, and it's so confusing. So we're really trying to solve a number of problems in what we do, and that's why it's, it takes time, and it's a journey for all of us. It's a journey for MindClick, it's a journey for your organization, it's a journey for Marriott, Hilton, Hyatt.

Highgate, ISG, all of those folks. Um, and we're just, you know, 80 percent of an organization's carbon emissions are in its supply chain. We don't have an industry without our supply chain. So our [00:40:00] gratitude is to leaders like you, your team at Berman Falk for being willing and courageous in, in taking a tool and being able to use it to affect change because All the little things that we're each individually doing are what's going to make the impact that we all need, um, to, you know, support the success of our industry, both financially as well as, um, uh, supporting our guests.

So, um, with that Joanna, one other thing I just wanted to say for everyone listening as well, Joanna, you said this remarkable thing a few years ago where If a building is a LEED building, and you just said it right there, and I think I really, I want to just highlight that because for all the listeners, if a building lasts for 100 years and there's 10 renovations that go through it, all the FF& E, which LEED doesn't really and didn't really account for, but MindClick does, [00:41:00] all of the FF& E that goes into and out of that over the, just say 10 renovation cycles of that hotel, have a greater impact.

Then the building, the building of the building and the operations of the building is that that's correct. That's from a magazine or an article. It's from the building itself. So Metropolis magazine published an article, which we're happy to share with with folks after this as well, that it was a study done by element.

Architects and the Carbon Leadership Forum, and they evaluated exactly what you're talking about. Dan, actually, they did it for commercial interiors, so it wasn't even hospitality. So you can imagine how much bigger this number is for hospitality. And they took, um, six, uh, four to six renovation cycles, I think it was.

And when you calculate the embodied carbon associated with all those interior furnishings, it is greater than the building shell and core in the envelope itself. And that's massive. And something that's been overlooked. So, you know, the Metropolis Magazine, uh, Three years ago, issued a [00:42:00] call to designers to say, you know, it's just as much on the design community as it is an architects to help lead the way and help in educating clients into making specification decisions that support, um, reducing, um, embodied carbon.

So we're going to quickly jump to the breakout sessions. Please take a minute to join these breakout sessions and really.

share the commitment to what we're all doing and give the folks some time to share their story in further depth. So we will see you there. All you need to do is minimize the screen that you're in, go back to your browser, the invitation that you received, and you'll see the breakout session that you've been assigned to.

And we'll see you there. Thank you.