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Teaching podcast from the Eagle Community Church of Christ in Mont Belvieu, TX.
Hi, everyone. Welcome back to the Eagle Community Church of Christ. My name is John Gunter. This week, we're talking about elders, shepherds, overseers. Yeah, all 1 and the same.
John Gunter:We're asking the question, who should serve? That's what Paul tries to answer in his letters to Timothy and Titus and that's what we as a church are trying to answer right now for us. So we hope this is helpful in, helping you understand this situation and if we can ever do anything, let us know. Have a great week. We're talking about, the subject of shepherds, overseers, elders, all of the above.
John Gunter:We are going to try to do something I have never done, and that is to do it all in one sermon. One thing, if you've got a bulletin with you, Tammy has has done for your benefit is to provide, a notes page. As I started putting in the headings, I asked Tammy, is there something we can put in there? And as I put in the headings, I was like, there's not enough space. And so she put just a notes page for you.
John Gunter:So whatever you think, you would like to put down, please do. This process is one that can be exciting, can be scary, can be confusing, concerning, contentious, all of those things. And if you've been in church very long, you probably experienced all of those things, unfortunately. But what we wanna do here is what we wanna do what we wanna do is is to explain as best we can what we are talking about, what we are going for, so that you make informed decisions about who you put forward as a shepherd candidate, so to speak. We want you to, again, go by what we read in Scripture, right?
John Gunter:In churches that I have been a part of, I have seen some of the craziest things come out of elder selection. I have seen things akin to a political rally for a candidate. I have seen people threaten to leave. I have seen people that would claim I only go by the Bible, then try to shoehorn someone into an elder position that obviously does not fit with what we read. Have you been there?
John Gunter:And so, as we approach this subject, we do so understanding those things and hopefully a prayer and a desire for our congregation to do these things in the right way. And that takes all of us, right? It takes us being mature and desiring to do things the right way. In this church, we have people who are qualified, that may end up as shepherds. We have people who are qualified that have already told some of you guys no.
John Gunter:Correct? We have people that may want to but are not qualified and we may have other scenarios as well. And so all of those things exist and what we're not going to do is to run anyone down for whatever reason. We're not gonna set up here and if if you put a name out, we're not gonna set up here and say, brother Smith was not accepted because x y z. We're not gonna run people down and just because someone does not step into a leadership position, an elder position after this, does not mean they are a horrible person or that they are irredeemable or anything like that, right?
John Gunter:We are all growing and maturing and all of these things in Christ, are we not? And so we desire that for everyone. And so for some people, the answer may be, well, not right now. Either because they don't want to or there is something we come to understand needs to be changed within their character. Okay?
John Gunter:And so what we are going to do this morning, and the reason you have the notes, and I have got a ton of notes in front of me, is we are going to cover 1 Timothy 3:1-seven and Titus 1:5-nine, all at the same time. There's some overlap there. You're probably already thinking about some questions you have or things you're like, oh, what's John gonna say about? Right? And so one thing I want to do is offer next Sunday during our bible class time, I want you to bring any outstanding questions you may have.
John Gunter:Not outstanding is in there a great question. Well, maybe they are. Outstanding is I haven't had this answered yet, or I'm confused, or I'd like to discuss this more. We are not going to yell at each other if you come mad, okay? You are not going to get your question asked, okay?
John Gunter:But we are going to offer that time as a time where you can come and ask questions, if you still are unclear on something. Is that fair? A, maybe we will get more people in Bible class, and B, maybe we will get some questions answered if you have them. I coach soccer, and the worst thing that happens is we go out and teach, and we practice, and we think everyone knows what's going on, and then you get in a game or a scrimmage, it's like, have you heard a word that we've said all season? Right?
John Gunter:And church can be that same way too. We're either afraid to ask, we're afraid somebody's going to think, well, that's a dumb question. No. We have to be mature, we have to be humble, we have to be ready to ask those types of questions, if we have those, okay? I'm gonna try my best to answer everything today, but there still may, I understand there still may be some questions or concerns or whatever after this.
John Gunter:So, again, next Sunday, be here whatever after this. So, again, next Sunday, be here for class, and we'll talk about it. Okay? Fair enough? Alright.
John Gunter:So, what we're going to do first is we're simply going to read these, and then, we will discuss what what each of these means. Okay? From 1 Timothy 3 verses 1 through 7. The saying is trustworthy. If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task.
John Gunter:Therefore, an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of 1 wife, sober minded, self controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. He must manage his own household well with all dignity, keeping his children submissive. For someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church? He must not be a recent convert or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into condemnation of the devil. Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil.
John Gunter:From Titus 1:5 through 9, this is why I left you in Crete, Paul talking to Titus here, so that you might put what remained into order and appoint elders in every town as I directed you. If anyone is above reproach, the husband of 1 wife and his children are believers and not open to the charge of debauchery or insubordination, For an overseer, as God's steward, must be above reproach. He must not be arrogant or quick tempered or a drunkard or violent or greedy for gain, but hospitable, a lover of good, self controlled, upright, holy and disciplined. He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction and sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it. Alright.
John Gunter:So, number 1, controversial statement. No, it shouldn't be controversial to you. Do not take these scriptures as exhaustive. If you are leaving out the whole of scripture when reading these things, you're missing the point, okay? Doctor.
John Gunter:Yarborough says this, and hopefully you can read it. I was trying to get it. Yeah, that's readable. In the NIV, verses 2 through 6 are 3 sentences containing 100 words. In Greek, there is 1 sentence 57 words.
John Gunter:He gives, and he being Paul, he gives more of an inner office memo than a polished employment ad or job description. Okay? This format reminds the reader that the traits called for are abbreviated and representative. So what we're doing is we're looking at the character of someone, right? It doesn't cover every single thing, okay?
John Gunter:They are abbreviated and representative. Much more could be said. Modern readers should not let the smoothed out and expanded English wording make them forget that Paul is only listing key reference points, not furnishing a full balanced and, complete statement. Okay? So, if that scared you in some way and you think, what are you talking about John?
John Gunter:What I want you to notice is, in both 1st Timothy and Titus, not one time did Paul say that this man should be a believer in God. Do you think he ought to be? Yes. Do you think he should love his neighbor? He never once said that.
John Gunter:Right? Now, you might go inhospitable, but he didn't say that. Okay. This is, okay, a way to look at the character of a person. This is not exhaustive.
John Gunter:You still take the whole of Scripture. You understand? You could go to the fruits of the Spirit if you want to. Right? Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self control.
John Gunter:If you read through this and and that doesn't cover it all, think about the other parts of scripture that the other teachings that we understand that as a Christian, as a follower of Jesus Christ, that we need to have. And again, if you don't understand that, right, again, it doesn't say you have to be a believer or a lover of God, right? Of course you do. And so that's what we do is we take the totality. Paul is talking to Timothy and Titus in these remote locations saying, All right, here's ways, here's things you ought to be looking for or hoping that is not present in the life of someone as well.
John Gunter:Okay? And back to 1 Timothy 3:1, The saying is trustworthy, if anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task, and that is just simply you're going to serve. This is a noble work. Okay? This is something that is good for you and good for the church, that you desire with a loving heart to care for the church.
John Gunter:Because what we can do is we can kind of come in and go out, wipe our hands of it and go on. Right? And so this is a noble work that I will give of my time, I will give of my effort, I will take time away from my family to care for others. Right? That is a selfless thing.
John Gunter:This is a very noble thing, and so that's what he's talking about. And so as we go, we're going to talk about an overseer must be. There in verse 2, Therefore, an overseer must be. And and in sum, Doctor. Yarborough says in his commentary here, the overseer is to be introduced as more than a random wish list for the pastorally inclined do gooder.
John Gunter:I like that sentence. That's a good one. It points to a quality and depth of godliness that are in this indispensable for the magnitude and gravity of pastoral labor that Paul models, expects of Timothy and hopes to see replicated in generations to come at Ephesus and beyond. I like that a lot. Okay.
John Gunter:This is, okay, not just a random list, this is something you should be looking for. As I mentioned earlier, sometimes we people who claim I am going by the Bible will try to shoehorn in and get mad if if the person they wrote on the paper doesn't become an elder, and it is obvious that they didn't fit this. This is not a, well, he got 6 out of 7. Right? This is not a, you know, 60 and above is passing.
John Gunter:Alright? This is what we look for in the characters, in the characteristics of shepherds. Okay. The Greek word, and it must be, is the is the word day, d e I. Okay?
John Gunter:And must be equals, again, it is necessary. Right? Not, okay. I'm gonna overlook that. Well, he's a really I hear Christians do this well sometimes, especially if it's someone you love, someone you're close to.
John Gunter:We have a tendency to to look at someone we love and say, well, that's just the way they are. Again, covering over something that shouldn't be covered over. Well, they're nice, and they're giving. Those are great, but what is he doing? He's a drunkard, or he's something over here.
John Gunter:Okay? So what we don't want to do is cover or gloss over anything here. Right? Take everything with equal gravity, equal weight. Okay?
John Gunter:And, okay, it is necessary. And number 1, an overseer must be above reproach. Now, in the church I grew up in, this is where the conversation started and ended. Because we took this basically to mean, you better be perfect. And if I know anything about you, you're not perfect and you can't be an elder.
John Gunter:That is not what this means. That would be ridiculous to read scripture and think that Paul, if that's what Paul thought, he's lost his mind because of everything else he said. Paul does not mean that elders or overseers are to be sinless people, or or that people thought, that you sinned. Remember, Jesus walked this earth in perfection. We understand that, but how many people that that walked around trying to catch Jesus thought he was sinless?
John Gunter:That's why they had him killed. Right? Because they thought he was going against god. He was blaspheming god. So, that doesn't mean just because someone says something that it's true or that somehow we are sitting here waiting for the sinless person.
John Gunter:He's not walking through that door until we're meeting him in glory, okay? Okay? And so that does not be mean sinless. This person should have a character without provable issues. Okay?
John Gunter:So not, I remember back in 76, Valentin, when you did this. Right? That that is okay. This is 2024. Where is your life now?
John Gunter:Not glossing over things that may be missing. Okay? Provable things that that we see in people. Alright. The husband of 1 wife.
John Gunter:If we made it past, above reproach, boy, we didn't get past this one. And y'all know it, I know it. The word here is really talking about a one woman man. This is devotion and dedication to your spouse. Okay?
John Gunter:This is, and this is probably the one of the things that's okay this morning. Somebody's gonna walk away mad today and I understand. But this list as it exists in scripture is Paul saying, here are some ways to look into the character of someone. Do you understand that? Read back through the list and you'll see that.
John Gunter:These are the ways you look into someone's life. Doctor. Yarbrough, who I've quoted a couple of times his commentary says, it will be, it would be over reading to see this and say, a man has to be married. Okay? We read this one a lot.
John Gunter:It says, a wife. Well, he's talking about normal. Okay? Those of you who are single right now, you look around and, you know, we have conversation and it feels like sometimes it's it's my life is not normal, because I'm not with someone. Right?
John Gunter:And so he's not making, again, this exhaustive list. He's saying, this is a way you can look into their lives. How many of you are thinking about this process like, I don't know them well enough to know. And some of that, that's true. Right?
John Gunter:But here's a way, if this person is married, if this man is married, is he devoted to his wife? Okay. That's a way to look at this. He doesn't say he has to be married, though I'm no doubt that that many of you grew up and that's what was kind of drilled into you. Again, that's not what this list is.
John Gunter:This list is how do we look into the character of someone? And if he's married, you can see that. If he's not, this this is not something that you can compare and and and contrast. Right? Okay.
John Gunter:You have to look at the other things. We don't ignore signs, and this is one of those things. If he's married, is he devoted to his wife? Remember, Paul and Jesus were not married. Jesus is mentioned in scripture as our ultimate shepherd or overseer using the same word.
John Gunter:Right? And we wouldn't say, Jesus, you weren't married, so you can't do that. Paul, you are not, you're not a person that, you know, is able to do this. You weren't married. Actually, Paul talks about this.
John Gunter:He says, I wish everyone that was as I am, and that meant unmarried. But he says, you guys keep sinning, so you better get married. Right? And so what you should see here is, if a person is not married, and I don't know that we have this in this church at all, I'm just covering the bases. You understand?
John Gunter:If this person is not married, he would have to be a celibate person, a person who is dedicating his life to Christ, right? Not saying, well, I don't have a wife, so hey, you y'all don't even worry about me on this. I'm gonna go live my life. No, of course not, right? That's not the way we should read this.
John Gunter:This is a list, this list is used to expose character issues, and not being married is not a character issue. You understand? Now being married and not being faithful to that wife and not devoted to that wife is, but if that does not exist, that is not a reason not to put someone's name down, but they should be dedicating their life to Christ. An overseer must also be sober minded. I may have lost most of you after that one.
John Gunter:I don't know. You're not listening or no. I'm just kidding. An overseer must be sober minded, and really what this word means is he's not flippant about the job. It is important to him, that he has a self control within us.
John Gunter:I know we're gonna mention self control as well in just a second, but not impulsive. This is something that I truly care about. I desire this noble work, and I I care about it. I'm gonna put my time and effort and again, miss out on some family time when those meetings go long and unfortunately, it happens. It just happens.
John Gunter:Okay, but they need to be sober minded, not flippant about this. They also need to be self controlled. This is a word really meaning, again, not flighty or unstable. You ever known someone you'd categorize as flighty? Somebody came to your mind, didn't they?
John Gunter:That's not what we are looking for, right? We need someone who is stable, who's going to be here. Shepherds don't run, right? Shepherds do not run. They are here to tend the flock, so we don't have people who are flighty and things like that.
John Gunter:An overseer must also be respectable. Yarborough says, Paul wants overseers whose characteristic actions cause them to be held in high esteem. When you think of that person, yeah, I hold them in high esteem. When you look at them and think, Oh, what a rascal. Right?
John Gunter:And again, we have to weigh this fairly. Again, if you're thinking back to 1976, when they cut you off in traffic, you should have gotten over that by now. Alright? This is weighing fairly what's present. Right?
John Gunter:How many of you would like to be judged over your past? Anybody signing up for that? I mean, maybe there's somebody in here who's like, yeah, I'm on the road down right now. The past would be better. I I understand that.
John Gunter:But how many of you would like to just have everything you've done just con continually held against you? Right? That's not what we're doing. Again, but not overlooking things that that may be there. Also, hospitable.
John Gunter:This is an I have notes in some of these, it's also in Titus 1:8. This is an idea of a man who cares for other people. Now, this can mean that, that he has people in his home. This could mean that he takes people out to eat. It can mean all of those things, but basically, this is a way that you can see, does this man care for others?
John Gunter:Because guess what? Do you want a shepherd that doesn't care for the sheep? How many have ever had a job, you got in the job, like, yeah, I don't care anything about this. Yeah. You may be in it right now.
John Gunter:Yeah. And so that's not what you want. You want someone who is there, who is caring, who wants to be there, caring for the people there. And remember, scripture tells us that when you're doing things for other people, you're doing those things for Jesus himself. Remember, Jesus says this, and like, you know, when you gave this cup of water, you gave it to me.
John Gunter:And they said, when did we give it to you? When you gave it to someone else. And so that's the way you see is this person caring, dude. Are they hospitable to other people? Do they care about other people?
John Gunter:And an overseer must also be able to teach. And you think about, when Paul wrote this, unfortunately, we didn't have any of these, did we? We are so spoiled with what we have on this. The Bible, I I I bring my Bible out of habit now. I'm trying to get into to bring in a paper copy now, but I've I read the Bible 99% of the time on a digital copy.
John Gunter:I can get any translation out there. Right? And when Paul wrote this, he's like, you've gotta be able to teach. You've gotta be able to warn. And guess what?
John Gunter:They didn't have one of those trusty phones or an ESV Bible with with leather cover here, right, that I had to pay so much for. They had to be able to, again, be immersed in the teaching and be able to teach. You think about some of Paul's letters. People were saying, well, Jesus has already come back or Jesus was never raised from the dead. All of these things that came into the church immediately and he had to be able to respond and say, well, that's not right.
John Gunter:And so, again, Titus 1:9 kinda says something similar, encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it. This is not the idea that every little thing in church that you may disagree with is something we've got to fight about and fix. And some people take it that way. If you and I disagree, one of us wrong got to leave. That's not what we're talking about.
John Gunter:We're talking about these things where we are, okay, did Jesus die for your sins type of thing. Are we gonna accept this Jesus? We talked in class this morning about, whether you're Jewish or Muslim, you think of Jesus as just a nice guy who was a prophet maybe. Okay? Those are things we've got to be able to refute, and here's why.
John Gunter:Here's a scripture I need to talk about with that. And so a shepherd has to be able to teach. All right. An overseer must must be not a drunkard. I didn't know how to put this in there because we kept going back and forth.
John Gunter:Must be not a drunkard. You just take that as it's perfect English. Okay? And so this is very simple. We get bogged down on these kinds of scriptures.
John Gunter:I've talked about this before. This is not something that says, if I saw Brother Smith, down at the restaurant and he had a, an alcoholic drink, that he is disqualified. Now if I go to the same establishment and brother Smith is laid out on the floor because he has had a bunch of drinks, he should not be a shepherd. Now that does not mean for all time. That means maybe he is working through something, he has got to change some things, right?
John Gunter:Not a drunkard, and you think about all the reasons why you can't be of sound mind if you are given over to something else. That's just like, as we are going to talk about in a minute, being greedy, right? Our master has become something else. And so if all I'm doing is pursuing something like alcohol or whatever, okay, that is not someone that that needs to be a shepherd at this time. You understand?
John Gunter:Okay? Also, not violent but gentle. And I'm gonna read to you, one of the best dictionaries out there. Again, examining the word that is is written there in Greek. The quality of making allowances despite facts that might suggest a reason for a different reaction.
John Gunter:Let me explain that to you. You ever had something happen in your life? I've got every reason to react in a certain way. They harmed me. They did something against me.
John Gunter:All the, all the facts say I'm right and I need to respond in a certain way. Not violent but gentle person says, even if I have all of that, there's a way I choose to respond. Anybody told your kids that before? I can't control, you can't control what others do to you. You can control how you respond.
John Gunter:And that's what we're looking at here, is not violent but gentle. This is not some sometimes we hear gentle and we think, oh, he's just a weak leader. Right? He just lets everything go. That's not what we're talking about.
John Gunter:You read the apostle Paul lately. He is not a weak leader, but he's also not drifting into these other character issues either. He is not belligerent. He is not running people off. He is not doing all these things, getting drunk and firing up the masses, right?
John Gunter:He is a strong leader. He is not a weak leader, but this idea is this man is even handed, Okay? Able to exist when, okay, the things aren't going your way, maybe you even have we might say, you had the right to do that. You ever said that? Yeah.
John Gunter:They cut me off in traffic. I had the right to do that and fly the wrong finger out the window. Yeah? Okay. Well, you need to be even handed, able to exist in these things because guess what?
John Gunter:If you start being around people, you are going to understand really quickly that we don't all agree. You sit in an elders meeting, you are going to understand real quickly, we don't all agree. And if you can't exist in that, if you can't be an even handed in that, well, what's going to happen? It's not going to work. Okay?
John Gunter:So no, not violent, but gentle. Also, not quarrelsome. This is an idea that we are not fighting about goofy things. Right? We are not just every time something little comes up, we've gotta fight about it.
John Gunter:You know, people like that? Yeah. I I think they live in the drama. They're they're they're maybe their body has adapted so that they are fueled by it. I don't know.
John Gunter:I I know people like that. This is not the people we're looking at. Proverbs 20 verse 3 says, it is an honor for a man to keep aloof from strife, but every fool will be quarreling. It is the fool who desires, seeks out and continues in all of the quarreling. I keep quarreling about things.
John Gunter:And Titus 39, which is not included in our reading today, but, Paul says this, but avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. And I want to say something about this, because sometimes what I see in church is, we allow someone to be hot tempered, be quick tempered, to be an angry person, maybe even confrontational, because it's about the Bible or they're just passionate about scripture. Well, what did Paul just say? Avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissension, we're good with that, and quarrels about the law. Well, that's important, right?
John Gunter:No, you still should have this character that how you treat people, how you exist, even when you don't agree, right? Because Paul says, these things are unprofitable and worthless. And guess what? It divides us, it separates us, and all it does is bring strife into a place that doesn't belong because we're all here, hopefully, to do the same thing and that's worship God, is it not? To spread the love of Jesus to everyone here and everyone in our communities, where we go and where we live.
John Gunter:And those things, do not allow us to do that. An overseer, again, must not be a lover of money. Titus 1:7 says, no dishonest gain. When you come into ministry of any sort, where you are doing something like this, you are able to become acquainted with people, you're you're able to experience both the highs and the lows of of people's lives. I'm able to perform weddings, I'm able to be there at funerals.
John Gunter:And so, you're actually able to be there in times where people are most vulnerable. And if what we have is someone who is greedy for dishonest gain or loves money, that's an opportunity to do that. And so, we don't overlook things like this, that you should not be out for dishonest gain. Hebrews 13:5 says, keep your life free from love of money and be content with what you have for he has said, I will never leave you nor forsake you. Again, the idea that our security and safety should be in God and not the pursuit of money, not the pursuit of wealth or what I've got in my bank account.
John Gunter:And 1 Timothy 6 verse 10, for the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs. And so if that's what you have and you're given an opportunity, that's where people will go. And hopefully, we don't have someone that that does this. Greed does not allow you to have that same desire for God because greed has overtaken you just like the drunk, alcohol has overtaken them.
John Gunter:An overseer must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive. Now, this is the idea again. What you should not read into this is that, what we're looking for is some kind of overbearing authoritarian, someone who's yelling and slapping the kids and all of this stuff just to keep up appearances. Right? Hey, you shouldn't do that anyway, but much less just to keep up appearances.
John Gunter:Well, I'm known as a kid slapper. I need to keep that up. Don't do that. Okay? This is not an overbearing, again, person.
John Gunter:This is someone who shows the love of Christ even into their family. Okay? And like this, if you're not mad yet, I'll make you mad again. Like we talked about with having a wife, it's the same thing for children. You don't necessarily have to have children.
John Gunter:If you're a celibate man, you're not going to. Paul is speaking to cultural norms. You had to have, if you were a family of any sort and trying to make ends meet, you had to have a lot of children. So the norm was you had a family with children. Okay?
John Gunter:So he's speaking into the norm. This is a way, if they have children, you look at those and say, okay, well, are his children submissive to him? Are these caring, loving children? Do you see the love of Jesus in the way that he parents? Okay.
John Gunter:This is another way. If he doesn't have that, obviously you can't. This is a way that you can evaluate, the same person's character. And, again, that you're showing the love of Jesus in all aspects of of life. An overseer must care for God's church.
John Gunter:This is someone who is not heavy handed. You ever known someone that's heavy handed? Yeah. It's kind of like we just described with, the father who's an authoritarian. The word here, care for God's church, is the same word.
John Gunter:You remember the story of the Good Samaritan? That when the Samaritan comes and gets this victim, who's been robbed and all of this, that same word is used there that he cared for him. And so this person is someone we're looking at that cares for God's church in the way that the Samaritan cared for this victim. And guess what? That means this shepherd needs to be someone who is open to outsiders, right?
John Gunter:All the stories we get from all the lessons we get from that story and parable, and so they care for people in in that way. An overseer must not be a recent convert. This is one of those things, this is, I think, the only one where it's well, here's a potential for a character issue, right, not an actual character issue. They might be fine, but it's better that we don't have someone that we baptized 2 weeks ago, or there'll be a shepherd now. Well, no.
John Gunter:Because in that moment, you have a chance for someone to think, oh, well, here we go. Maybe thinking kind of worldly in that. I have already come up the ranks, I've come up the ladder, all of those things. And so, I can become conceded and that's not what we want. But an overseer must be well thought of by outsiders.
John Gunter:Well, that's a tough one. I was in a church one time where, it was obvious that a big portion of people did not want elders. And so for one of the the candidates, somebody wrote on a paper, they are not thought of well in the community. Now how are you gonna disprove that one? If that was said about you this morning, what are you gonna do?
John Gunter:Bring a 100 people in here, 200? What are you gonna do? Right? But the idea is not that we're trying to just throw something out against people, but they should be thought of, well, by outsiders. Sometimes, if you read, especially the book of Luke, what you see is the outsider sees the inside more clearly than the insiders.
John Gunter:Sometimes, we like to gloss over things. Well, he's a faithful brother. I see him every Sunday and, like, we don't think through the rest of this. I just know he's here. And and that's not what we're doing.
John Gunter:Well, how does he deal with outsiders? Again, a way to examine his character. How is he, in his work? What about the people he works with? Do you have any insight in that?
John Gunter:That's another way. Now, I don't think you have to go, you know, put in some kind of request to go down to all the places these guys work. This is a way that you can see, right, if you're able to see that. Alright? This is also the idea that there should be some interaction with people outside.
John Gunter:That we don't insulate ourselves from others. That we have a desire to reach other people. What does that mean? We have to go. We had that sermon the other day, that I will go.
John Gunter:Well that means you have to go and interact with other people. If an overseer is, and this is again in Titus, the husband of 1 wife, his children are believers and not open to the charge charge of debauchery or insubordination. And I I won't recover all of that, but just say, this is a way to look. Well, he has a my church growing up, we got caught up in not only does he have to have children, but that word there is plural. So you can't just have a child, you better have multiple.
John Gunter:Again, not what he's getting at. If you have a child or if you don't, that is not a character issue. Now if you have children and they're open to the charge of debauchery and insubordination, you can see there's an issue. There's something going on. Maybe you thought he was the friendliest person at church, and he always gives me y'all ever have a peppermint guy that just gives out candy when they come through?
John Gunter:I would just do a bowl. Somebody step up and do that. Have you ever ever had it? I mean, you just think the world of that person, but you may not you may not actually know them. Right?
John Gunter:I would I would prefer if you don't know someone, don't write anybody down, right? If you don't know them that well, this is not going to be some kind of popularity contest, right? This is something that we we test out and and see. But if you see, again, this is a way well, yeah, he hands me a candy on Sunday mornings, but man, his kids are something else. Right?
John Gunter:That's a way you can see. Alright, is is this actually what I perceive or is this something else? Okay? Not arrogant. There's not much to say about that other than this person is self important.
John Gunter:Right? Jesus calls us, he says, you wanna be the greatest? You serve. That's what being a shepherd is. This is not a CEO position where we make all the decisions and all of this.
John Gunter:You never read that one time in scripture. Now, sometimes we think it. I've been around people that thought the elders ought to stamp everything that comes through. You don't find that in scripture. An elder is a person who serves the church, loving them, caring for them, and has to put himself below other.
John Gunter:You cannot be arrogant in this position. And finally, we've got 2 more here, and I'll let you go, I promise. It's not a hostage situation yet. An overseer must not be quick tempered. Alright.
John Gunter:The the word here, is translated different ways in different parts of scripture. Other ways that it's it's, translated is irascible, irritable, passionate, and, of course, quick tempered. And, a person who is quick tempered is obviously gonna have issues working with others. As I've already said, we're gonna have people who disagree, elders, ministers, elders and members, all the things. Everybody thinks they have the right way to do things, and right?
John Gunter:If you don't agree, if you are that mindset where I'm right and no one else can ever be, and you are quick tempered, it is going to be a bad deal. This is not, you know, I saw so and so get mad one time back in the 70s, you know, I will just use that, and their quick temper. Now, this is pretty self, you know when you think of someone. If you know someone that is quick to pop off, quick to go from 0 to a100, you know what that looks like, right? And that's not what we want or need.
John Gunter:That doesn't mean that person is going to hell. They are on a road to, and hopefully they desire maturity, but that just means, they do not need to serve as an overseer. So not quick tempered. And finally, a lover of good, upright, holy, and disciplined. This is again, a focus and a desire to be the right kind of person.
John Gunter:That I want to be this good person. You might even look at it as all these negative things we just talked about. They don't want that. They don't desire that. They they love the good.
John Gunter:They seek it out, not only for themselves, but for the church, because that's what we're doing. You are the flock. Right? And that's what we desire. They're upright, holy.
John Gunter:Remember that word, holy, just means set apart for a purpose. And I understand what my purpose is. It's not, to get drunk. It's not greed. It's not to seek my own desires.
John Gunter:It is. I am set apart to do God's will, and I desire that, and that's what this is about. And finally, discipline, which fits into so many things that we've already talked about. And what I want to just re mention for a second is, again, what we are going through can be one of those things that really fires people up, and I pray that it is not. And we desire to have people that fit this kind of character, and that we are open and honest when we see, well I really like Brother Smith.
John Gunter:I don't think we got a Brother Smith in here, maybe we do. If we do, I've been picking on you all day. I'm sorry. I really like Brother Smith, but I know this one thing, and I'm going to overlook it. Don't ever overlook it.
John Gunter:It's okay. Again, it's not throwing this person to the wayside, but it's just saying, okay, what we want is the person that fits this. Are they gonna be sinless, church? Let's go back to the first one. Are they gonna be sinless?
John Gunter:We've talked about all this now. You're like, I don't think anybody qualifies. Right? Not gonna be sinless, but that also means we don't overlook things. When you see, okay, I know that's how they are.
John Gunter:Okay. That just means they don't need to be an overseer of our church. Because what you can do when you try to force your way or force someone in there is you can really destroy a church. And that's the last thing we want. Amen?
John Gunter:I hope. And what we desire is to see this church grow and flourish. And as we pray all the time, grow closer to God and closer to each other. And if we do this incorrectly, we're not going to do that. And so as you go through this, read back through what we've covered, write down questions you have, bring those Sunday morning.
John Gunter:I'll be happy to you're not gonna bother me, unless you come in red faced and shaken. We need to sit down and cool off, okay? You're probably not gonna be an elder. I'm just kidding. On.
John Gunter:But bring those things to me. Pray about these things during the week. Pray for God to be with you to see the things that you need to see, whether good, bad, right? To be open minded, openhearted, and desire, again, the best for this church, to desire the things that bring us all closer to God. So I know that's a little different for today, and I know that we can kind of get tired of that or be stuck on a couple or maybe some of you are still thinking about ones we covered at the beginning.
John Gunter:I don't know. But go back through it and read it, and think about just what it looks like to love this church. Find those people. Find those people that not only fit these things, but fit the whole of Scripture, that they love God, they love their neighbor, they care about others, they desire, you think of them, they desire the best for me. And don't overlook the bad things, right?
John Gunter:And so may we all mature, may we all grow closer to God, and through this process, I pray that we do. We've got a song of invitation picked out this morning. As I'm leaving, singing Heath, would you stand up in case anybody would like to pray? Heath would be up here. He's already on the front, so that'll work out.
John Gunter:Let's pray together as a church. Let's, let's pray and then we'll sing, will we? Our father, god in heaven, lord, we, we just come to you right now, lord, just with our hearts open to, to your will. God, as we, approach this process, we pray for for clarity. Lord, we pray that we don't shy away from all that you have for us, all that you've expressed through your word, and and, God, help us to do so with, Lord, a heart that loves you and desires the best things for this church.
John Gunter:The things that, again, just help us mature, each and every day, closer to you. God, we just pray that you, you guard our hearts. Lord, that we we put our own desires out of the way, and and, lord, that we we seek the best for you and and for your church here. And and, Lord, that you will bless us through that. It's in Jesus' name we pray.