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The Moonshots Podcast goes behind the scenes of the world's greatest superstars, thinkers and entrepreneurs to discover the secrets to their success. We deconstruct their success from mindset to daily habits so that we can apply it to our lives. Join us as we 'learn out loud' from Elon Musk, Brene Brown to emerging talents like David Goggins.
hello and welcome to the moonshots
podcast it's episode
264 I'm your co-host Mike Parsons and as
always I'm joined by the man himself Mr
Mark Pearson freand good morning
Mark hey good morning Mike good morning
listeners viewers uh patreon subscribers
and family members of the moonshot show
Welcome to episode
264 Mike I say it every week maybe our
listeners and fans are kind of thinking
hey Mark's always going on about this
episode being one for the record books
and to be honest I'm gonna say it again
today because we do have an
action-packed episode within this new
series on creativity don't we we
certainly do we are going to a book
that if we had a category Mark that was
why didn't they teach us this at
school this is certainly in that Cate so
if you're
looking to live your dreams particularly
dreams that are
creative that take you out of the mold
and you want to create something in the
world be it a book a play a movie a song
Whatever creative art you want to bring
to the world if you have made a little
bit of
inspiration and you now need to do some
perspiration boy oh boy this is the book
for being resilient in the face of all
the creative challenges in life Mark I
think we're going to war
here you're totally right Mike I
couldn't said it better myself we are
diving into Stephen perspiration
pressfield with his synonymous work the
war of art so this seminal work from
this author has really I think captured
a lot of people's attention particularly
because as we're going to find out today
Mike it brings some much needed let's
say tough love to a lot of those of us
who are out there trying to create
trying to do our best work it brings
that little bit of tough love and helps
us all remember that sometimes you need
to dig in deep in order to go out and do
your best work but this idea of
resistance is certainly something that
Stephen calls out within this book and I
know for a fact within our Clips today
he's going to bring that to life for us
even
more yeah so let's uh let's get stuck in
Where Do We Begin this what are the uh
the grumblings of war that we're going
to have with our creative efforts how
are we going to where are we going to
start to conquer the creative
block well I just referenced this uh
this r word you know something that you
and I we've run into on the moonshot
show several times before and that is
this magic word I'd call it of
resistance so this theme will come up a
lot within the war of Arts so why don't
we hear from the author himself Mr
Steven pressfield kick Today's Show Off
In Style by helping us relate to how all
of us no matter where we are no matter
what we're doing all have to go out and
struggle to win the war there is this
negative Force out there that I call
resistance with a capital r a voice in
our head that tells us you're no good
you can't do this who are you to think
of whatever project that you have in
your mind and also to distract you let's
go to the beach let have another drink
let's have an
affair if you decide you want to be in
the creative arts it's a war and you're
going to have to fight this Dragon every
morning that you wake up to do that you
have to find some kind of a mindset
whatever it is you know a warrior
mindset the mindset of a mother that's
going to protect you know the life
growing within her whatever it is to
overcome that thing called resistance
that it is a war and you have to fight
it every day what I love about this
mindset Mark is we
don't grow up thinking about being
creative drawing
writing being in the theater we don't
think about this together with the
concept of
War yes in fact I think our biases are
often that it's some like fuddy duddy
lighthearted be creative or or you know
someone smoking a cigarette in a cafe in
Paris oh I'll be creative sometime you
know like we associate this
looseness uh almost this laziness is
attributed uh to creativity and and
doing creative work what I love what
Stephen just did for us is like he
literally is the creative version of
David gogins
M right I like that he's literally like
dude you got to work on it you got to
work on it every day and much like great
athletes and great business people what
pressfield highlighted In that clip is
like oh self-doubt oh yeah everyone
everyone feels that distraction and
avoidance everyone does that just like
when you listen to top athletes do they
get stressed do they fear that they're
not good enough yes yes yes same thing
with entrepreneurs but the difference
for those that truly succeed and do
great things it's not that they don't
experience it they work out how to live
with it and get through it and this is
the warrior mindset pressfield is
presenting this you need to go to war
with yourself to build your art and if
you're not prepared to do that you will
fall victim to self-doubt you will fall
victim to
distraction and what I find so powerful
is is no one ever Pres presented this
kind of thinking about the creative
works I did as a student at high school
for example nobody talked about this
discipline resilience and this
war this is like so fresh this way of
thinking because it we've seen it Mark
it applies to creativity happiness doing
your own startup whatever it is you have
to be prepared to go through hell and
high water and overcome all of the very
natural things Natural Things of
self-doubt distraction and
avoidance lack of selfworth you got to
be ready to go through that it's just
part of the course as soon as you hear
this you go it's such an aha moment
because it's like
oh okay so tough times will come if I'm
doing something meaningful if I'm trying
to be
creative but it's okay if I have
self-doubt because that's part of the
process isn't
it I mean it it's the
guarantee isn't it there's going to be
moments whether you're in as you say an
athletes situation or whether you're in
the boardroom whether you're an
entrepreneur creating business or as
we're finding out today with Stephen A
Creative which you know romantically you
can imagine somebody sitting in a
hammock kind of coming up with a fun
book that stuff doesn't flow as easily
as it as it seems like it does in the
movies and so on and you're totally
right this
procrastination this resistance this
block that I think hits a lot of people
you know we've run into this idea with
Austin Cleon with Ryder's block we've
run into even as I'm sure we'll
reference maybe once or twice more in
today's episode Elizabeth Gilbert with
the idea of big magic and coming up with
an idea from scratch a lot of these
situations are going to be guaranteed
and a lot of the creatives out there are
going to struggle and if you can come to
terms with that early on in your journey
and you can see that on the horizon you
know it's going to come but that's okay
because you're ready you're aware of it
I think that is where Steven's really
taking us within the war of art because
you're naming that Beast early and you
know that when it does come you've
already built some resistance and can
deal with it what an opener eh oh
I think the power is if you can go
into into
that and change how you respond
like I think this is where the the
empowerment comes so let let me hit you
with a list of things let's say Mark
that you're going to write a book I'm
going to hit you with some things that
you're probably going to face and what
you'll get the chance to is you can
respond to them with this war of art
mindset so I'm going to list these and
then you're going to tell me how you're
going to respond you might feel impostor
syndrome like what am I doing writing a
book you might fear the critique that
the book receives you might fear being
compared to other authors you might fear
that oh it's not really perfect I should
have used this in chapter one you might
fear that you'll just get to your desk
and you can't write a thing you might
put your uh manuscript to a publisher
and get rejected and you fear that you
might constantly hear self-doubt in oh
all these things coming about you might
be like ah the way I'm trying to tell
this story it kind of sucks or you might
like G to put in all this work and not
get a dime back these are all the things
you could you could face so Mark
normally what do we do when we have
these thoughts before we get to Steve
pressfield's thinking what are we all
guilty of when we have the thoughts what
do we
do well I mean it's it's classic fight
or flight moments isn't it you know in
that list comparisons not as good as you
want the lack of enthusiasm both
internally but also from others yeah
that those are the moments where if it
was me and I'm behind my typewriter I'm
G to be thinking should I bother maybe
I'll throw in the towel do I want to
fight for it or do I want to run away
from it that challenge Mike that is
where be that resilience and that grit
that we find out in so many other walks
and disciplines that we've studied on
this show really really comes in isn't
it it seems as though the creative art
is just as much akin to all these other
spaces right as as it needs that
resilience that we know from Yoko we
know from Goggins you've got to lean
into it don't you you really do because
here's the
thing the best way I can describe cribe
the average and the behavior for most is
when they have those kind of self-doubts
and fears they run
away they run away I've been so guilty
of facing self-doubt and fears like that
and I'm like I'm out of here okay but
imagine we all oh God yeah but here's
the
thing if we take writing as an example
Stephen King has these sorts of thoughts
right JK Rowling had these sorts of
thoughts the difference is they didn't
run they faced these
thoughts and here's the thing you that
list that I just gave you if you were
doing something that wasn't challenging
do you think you would have that degree
of
concern no you wouldn't would you and I
think Mike where this idea of
resistance comes in handy for authors
and anybody who's
struggling as we were talking about
prior to the show this is your moment of
evolution change when you go up against
those those Publishers like JK Rowling
did and they say a book about a teenage
wizard nah we're not interested what did
what did JK rling do went to the next
one went to the next one you keep on
pushing because you feel as though
you've got that story to tell and I
think that's when you evolve you become
more resilient and also you become that
better at communicating those struggles
to others and you become I think richer
for it don't
you
so here I think is the formula to
overcome this moment and embrace this
mindset so if you can do the following
right let's say you were publishing your
bookmark and you started feeling these
things
that you will now be able to say because
I'm feeling some
self-doubt this is a bit of a stretch
there's some ambition there is therefore
some growth in writing this book because
if it was really easy or for example
exactly the same as one you just wrote
you'd be like hey I already done this I
can do this in my sleep do you really
think you're going to fear that no so
what you can start to say is fear doubt
good good because you know who was
saying that to us Mike that was good old
Yoko willing problems good so what we
can start to do is intercept the flight
or fight response that you mentioned and
say uhuh I'm not going to fall victim to
that I'm GNA say oh this must be
stretching me a bit because I'm feeling
a little bit uncomfortable oh that's
great because you know I read mindset by
Carol DWI and I know they getting a
little bit uncomfortable that's the path
to growth and growth comes to a point of
satisfaction and fulfillment so we know
we're on the right way and then you can
say well
listen I know that all the greats had
the same feeling and that they learned
to cope with it I know that if I truly
see this as an opportunity for personal
growth rather than fear of failure you
can be on the way to that transformation
because you're no longer hampered by the
block by the fear you move through it
like Ryan holiday obstacle is the way
face the obstacle know that the obstacle
is there for your own growth and go
forward Mark I mean this is like what
our members are doing every single month
right look whether we're looking at the
statistics and research from Angela
Duckworth's book on grit or Mike whether
we're leaning into to all of our amazing
members on the the moonshots show I know
for a fact that the thing that connects
all of these individuals is this idea of
resilience powering through those tough
times and I know as you do as well our
members are definitely up there with the
most resilient that we know so
please welcome in and celebrate Bob
Niles ipon dietar Maran Connor Lisa and
Sid Mr boner Paul bur cman Joe Christian
Samoa and Barbara Deborah lass Steven
Craig Ravi evver r niikada Ingram Durk
Vata Marco Jess Roger Steph raw nbin
Diana Kristoff and Denise Laura Smitty
Cory and Daniela Mike and Antonio high
five to all of you guys 12 months and
counting but hot on those heels is
Zacharia Austin Fred Ola and Andy Diana
Margie Ron and Jasper Fabian and guhong
thank you guys so much for being part of
the moonshots family and being members
of moonshots absolutely a big thank you
for your continued support we really do
appreciate it and because of that we can
go on a journey Mark and that takes us
right to our next clip you're totally
right Mike I think a reference that
we've had on the show before is again
there's going to be tough times and
pretty much guaranteed is this need to
deal with sometimes feeling a little bit
lost a little bit stuck and a little bit
unsure of which way to go next so let's
hear from Steven who's is handly going
to reference this period of Exile or as
we know the valley of darkness within
the hero's journey it's a it's a quest
when when you're in Exile to find home
that's that's what it is I think the
main thing I would say from this book
from or from what we're talking about
here is
that the real Agony of that period of
Exile is the sense that you feel that
it's meaningless
that everything is random you're just
bouncing from job to job mate to mate
you know disaster to disaster addiction
to addiction and you think that it's
meaningless but the the the lesson or
the the the thought I want to have from
government chees is it's not meaningless
you are on a hero's journey it's a
journey toward home and no matter how
blindly you're stumbling into walls and
falling into pits it all has meaning and
it all it all is working towards
something if you'll just keep your eyes
and ears open and try to learn the
lessons that are being jammed into your
face you know that there is it is just
like
odyusa that is the great you know myth
of Western civilization and the reason
it is is because we all have it inside
us you know that that Journey journey is
all inside us the soft door is there and
if we just follow it and kind of deep
keep hanging in there we will get we
will get to home just like he did so if
I can if I can communicate that that
what seems meaningless has meaning even
though we can't understand it yet you
know at some point we will reach a point
where we can look back and go ah you
know when you look backwards it all
makes sense yeah if if it's finding home
Steve how how do we how do we narrow in
on what home is or or how to navigate
there is there a certain feeling I mean
I think we just know it when we're there
you know it's like we were talking about
the doors that have to close until one
opens or the the alternative lives that
we might live that we have to jettison
and say you know I can't live those
lives I can only I can only live this
life and at some point we do feel
like like if You' stopped me at the very
start of this journey and really made me
sit down
I could have told you yeah I've got to
be a writer you know but I was running
away from running away just like if
somebody has a drinking problem they'll
say I don't have a problem I could stop
anytime I want I'm only a social Drinker
at some in their deep in their heart
they know I got a problem you know this
is and but it may take 20 years before
they hit that All Is Lost moment when
they say I got a problem I got to do
something about this or the positive
side of that is this is me I found I
found it this might be you know I might
be uh it might take me forever to
achieve this dream I might have to start
at a very very low level and really work
but this is it this is what I want to do
this is what brings me joy this is what
makes me happy this is what lets me
sleep at night and you and also you do
have the feeling of this is really who I
am you know I was kidding you when I
thought I was this or I was kidding
myself this is really who I
Amo that I mean there is a show to be
down on that
Mark boy you're right yeah on the hero's
journey yeah abolutely yeah so I want to
like I want to kind of just not go too
broad here
so how do you take this um continuing
and finding meaning when there appears
to be no meaning in the work right yeah
yeah it's yeah
go on I was about to jump in I'm I'm
clearly excited yeah so I think it
directly the answer actually starts in
the previous clip right that when
there's
self-doubt and distraction that's good
that's good okay I'm I'm pushing myself
I'm stretching and then you go into the
valley of darkness you're you're you're
you're in the work and you you've you've
lost touch with why am I doing this is
this even worth it does anyone want to
see this I'm not sure anymore I think
again it starts with that's okay
and let's say you're trying to write a a
page a
day and you struggle and you're really
struggling or you get the page done but
you think it's
crap I think the most powerful way to
handle this and to not freak out is the
following every day you try and fail
brings you a day closer to
success it's like Thomas Addison
thinking about the prototypes he did for
the light
bulb he's got this famous thought around
well I may have failed 10,000 times but
actually I just figured out what doesn't
work 10,000 times that got me
closer another way of thinking about
this is the longer you grind the more of
your competitors are all dropping
out right m so an even more immediate
thing is I'm up at 6:30 every day and
most of my competitors aren't so you're
already getting a sort of a win even if
you're not like writing the best one
pager
ever the fact that you got up and you
tried actually does bring you closer
right like today you tried this approach
didn't quite work all right well I'll
try another one tomorrow and you'll try
until you got one that iterative trial
and error that learning
that grinding it away turning up is half
the
battle even if you didn't get the result
the next time you're just a millimeter
further in understanding well at least I
tried this it didn't work tomorrow I'll
try a little other approach I believe if
you can say to yourself statistically
even if that one page was
poor it still brings me closer to a
better page
tomorrow I think if you can do that then
you're not put off by Monday you right
Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday
Saturday Sunday and breath go again and
again and again and again because if you
just see it is chipping
away rather than being uh stationary you
are actually migrating closer even if
it's a little bit that's a way when
you've given up all the hope you can't
see you keep going because statistically
you know you're a millimeter closer to
success that is progress I think when I
strip it right down that's the grind
right yeah you're right small growth is
still growth and like we know from
Goggins he said if a plant isn't growing
what is it it's effectively dead it's
static and you're right Mike I think I'm
I'm reminded as you're breaking it down
and as we heard from Stephen I'm
reminded of the obstacle as the way of
course you know from Ron holiday this
idea of finding the struggle and
embracing that as your your path but
more uh a deeper level of that I think
when I heard you seeing and speaking is
that not only is failure often the way
forward but much like adicus going on
his
Odyssey there are lessons you can learn
if you choose to notice them to learn
from them embrace them and look at them
with a positive light it would be very
very easy to see a struggle as a reason
to stop doing it or it might be this
path that I've been on has not let's say
it's a tough job it's not something I
really enjoy I'm clearly not doing my
life's calling because I don't like my
job well fast forward a year six months
you're going to look back and say hey
that helped me realize that I was on the
wrong path to my dream job right or it's
now made me that little bit tougher so
that the next project the next
opportunity I have to deliver something
it's going to be maybe that little bit
easier or maybe that little bit more
pleasant because there's a necessity in
life isn't there that we've got to go
out and learn lessons we got to become
more we got to become stronger more
patient maybe have more humility towards
others and I think a lot of that uh
perseverance and perspiration comes from
real life events not everything you can
learn in a book can you that's that's so
so right so what's perfect is in this
next
clip is a study of the advice that
Steven prfi has for us about getting
through the grind so Mark why don't you
unleash this next step in this huge aha
about the war of
creativity you're totally right to to
Big this one up M because I'm really
excited to dig into productivity games
breakdown of this idea of resistance
from Steven pressfield and also how we
go out and combat it if we're
considering a creative project and we
feel distracting urges and intense
anxiety that's a good thing pressfield
says if you're feeling Massive
Resistance the good news is it means
there's tremendous love there if you
don't love the project that is
terrifying you you wouldn't feel
anything the opposite of Love isn't hate
it's indifference the more resistance
you experience the more important your
unmanifested art project or Enterprise
is to you and the more gratification you
will feel when you finally do it
resistance is our guide to fulfillment
when we feel lost and overwhelmed
resistance is our guiding Compass our
true north when I'm unsure which book to
read and summarize next I should pick
the book that both interests me and
gives me anxiety if you're an aspiring
entrepreneur with a long list of
business ideas you should pick the
business idea that both excites you and
terrifies you if you're an actor and you
don't know what role to take next take
the role that scares you after we learn
to embrace resistance we must face
resistance Navy SEAL Commander Mark dine
tells new Navy SEAL recruits that
they're all walking around with two
invisible wolves a fear wolf and a
courage Wolf the fear wolf is resistance
it feeds on your fear of it we have a
choice every day we can either avoid our
calling give into resistance's demands
and feed the fear wolf or face
resistance and feed our Courage Wolf
author Steven pressfield feeds his
Courage Wolf by sitting down to write at
his desk at precisely 10:30 a.m. every
day regardless of how he feels he starts
writing and doesn't stop until he's
exhausted which is typically 3 to 4
hours he doesn't care how many pages
he's produced or if his writing is any
good all that matters he says is I put
in my time and hit it with all I've got
all that counts is that for this day for
this session I have overcome resistance
if we commit to sitting down with
resistance for a set amount of time
every day something magical happens
it's as though our efforts are being
rewarded by a divine power it's as
though we've been given an angel for a
day pressfield says when we sit down
each day and do our work power
concentrates around us we become like a
magnetized Rod that attracts iron
filings ideas come insights accre soon
resistance goes away and the experience
is enjoyable but only for the remainder
of that day resistance will be waiting
for us on the battlefield
tomorrow oh this reminds me like of of
running I know we often draw analogies
with
running like feeding the courage Wolf
like dude every time I'm running a long
distance so somewhere between a quarter
and a Half Marathon distance at some
point I'm like oh geez this is really
starting to take a
to yeah you know and the the crazy thing
is I've probably run
ah I don't know at least double figures
half marathons or longer right in my
life yeah and I always chuckle to myself
that somewhere on that run I'm like oh
gee there's a lot of resistance my body
just wants
to but you know the funny thing is when
I ran my first marathon I had really
committed to running 42 and I had
traveled to Barley a week before I
wasn't in perfect health I was a little
wiped from the travel and I still ran it
and I got it done but somehow that
overcoming of that resistance that first
time cemented something I'm never going
to lose which is when I feel my body in
a long long run starting to go geez Mike
I'm pretty knacked now we could totally
stop right
here I can somehow go back to the muscle
the memory muscle of I know that that
that's okay
and you know it reminds me when I
finished of what gogin says we have
no sense of our potential there's always
so much more left in the tank than we
realize so getting up and doing the work
every day building that Atomic level
habit whether you're James clear or
stepen pressfield the pattern is clear
MK set the commitment to the day habit
and do not surrender to it go at it and
it actually once you start identifying
what it takes to overcome it you become
com not totally comfortable but you're
prepared for it and this is the great
benefit that we all have if we just
stick to our guns and keep going even
despite the uh it's not the courage Wolf
the fear wolf right when the fear wolf
is howling at you to stop just don't
give in
right I I've I've been taking so many
notes while you've been talking about
because there's so much we could dive
into within this particular topic and I
think already when I'm thinking about
feeding my Courage
Wolf we've obviously spoken a lot about
the idea of mantras the idea of time
blocking but those are really the secret
source for me when I'm getting up in the
morning maybe I don't feel that
motivation to go out and dig deep today
maybe if it is a marathon or maybe it's
just a lot of work to do I might lack
that little bit of enthusiasm motivation
energy but when I make a promise to
myself by writing down maybe it's a
mantra or putting something physically
in my calendar much like laying out your
running shoes the night before you go to
bed you're sort of making that promise
to yourself tomorrow Y and you're saying
go out and do it regardless of how you
feel because exactly as you called out
the next time you run it you'll noticed
maybe it's still going to be just as
difficult as it was the first time you
probably feel the same resistance and
struggle regardless of how many times
you've done it but instead what you'll
know is you have that gas in the tank
yes to dig that little bit deeper and do
it anyway yes won't you and that's
that's why if you do it like a new
creative task once a day Monday to
Friday and it might suck for a week a
month or maybe months at some point
there is this incredible reward right at
some point you'll go you know what I've
been writing every weekday for the last
five weeks and I'm kind of getting in
the zone now I say what happens is you
notice two things when you don't do your
daily habit it feels like something is
missing so the thing you dreaded at the
start somehow becomes like oh my gosh I
haven't done it today I was too busy or
I was traveling or something and then um
the other thing that happens is it
becomes a bit contagious so if you are
declaring the war of art with a creative
exercise maybe you do something with
something at work or maybe build
resilience in another part of your life
so I would say I take the that inner
strength I built running and that
permeates in other daily habits that I
have and so I think then this is the
expansion of success right where you
figure out doing the right things even
when they when it doesn't feel right
knowing that it's the right you did it
anyway this builds up not only a
capacity to write or to run but you can
like Cascade that same mindset you can
almost Embrace The Playbook and imply it
in a different game and it still works
doesn't
it yeah you know what you're totally
right there have been many opportunities
for me when I am reminded of something
physical that I've done let's let's in
fact I'll P you a picture Mike there'll
be a difficult project perhaps that I've
got maybe it's an uncomfortable meeting
maybe I've got to go and pitch or
present something quite complicated and
I'm kind of struggling you can feel the
butterflies maybe you're feeling a
little bit hot under the collar you know
the physical uh manifestations of
resistance starting to Bubble Up and you
can notice it for me when I am in those
situations I am thinking of when I get
in the ocean and the water's cold I know
I'll survive I know I'll get out the
other way and I know if it's a marathon
or if it's a race even if it's 5
kilometers that moment when you start to
feel a little bit tired your legs are a
bit blocky and you don't want to go any
further if you push that a little bit
more you know you can finish it because
each of those moments I've made it
through so I know that I can get through
this experience as long as I stick to it
as long as I have that drive to go out
and and finish what I've started and
also exactly as pressfield's really
calling us out here in today's episode
along that way when you notice that
resistance and you notice those moments
when you kind of do want to run away or
drop tools and say ah it's too hard you
know sorry Mike I can't do this after
all or worse than that you just leave it
and then the deadline rolls around and
you haven't done your first chapter you
haven't written your days yeah your
pages each week each
morning and you leave it alone that's
when you start to realize ah I'm missing
something and that affects your
self-confidence that affects your drive
and that for me when I look back at
things that I wish I'd done maybe a
little bit differently it's the things
that I put off it's the things that I
didn't really apply myself towards but
as pressfield's telling us as long as
you learn from it hey that's okay yeah
yeah positive so so facing the
resistance and feeding the courage with
this is like where where the rubber
meets the road right because we've sort
of made that breakthrough of okay
there's a challenge no problem it's part
of the journey got it but then that's
when you need to set those daily habits
and stick to them keep your promises to
yourself and I would say
that this all coexists in this other big
idea from Steven
prfi which is the work that we need to
do inside of
ourselves to truly produce great things
and Mark I think you've got a very nice
clip here that speaks to
that yeah that's right Mike so Steven
pressfield is not only painting picture
for us today around resistance the drive
that you need to go on and get things
done but also I think with all types of
resistance you kind of want to know
where you're going you enjoy the journey
but you have a dream in place so this
final clip Mike that we're going to hear
from Steven pressfield today on the war
of art is all about your inner work if
somebody was going to ask me like for
one thing if you're as you're if you're
a young guy or girl and you're sort of
struggling or or trying to find your
calling
uh I would say and this might sound
crazy pay attention to your
dreams keep keep a you know learn to
remember your dreams there's a wonderful
book I'm going to recommend a book here
it's called inner work by Robert Johnson
and uh who's a great yian therapist and
it's about it's about interpreting
dreams and I really do believe that in
our soul and that's what's talking to us
when a dream comes is is a source of
wisdom that's Way Beyond anything we
have up here you know and when we're
lost I know I can look back at various
points in my life where a dream has come
at exactly the right time and kind of
told me something that kept me going or
pointed me in one direction or pointed
me away from another thing and I've
heard a lot of other people that I've
talked to and that I know say the same
thing um I would not dismiss dreams it's
a real skill you know I keep you know at
my bedside I keep a little you know tape
recorder you know but everybody else has
got an iPhone or something like that
because you forget your dreams but I
would say pay attention to your dreams
because and and In My Darkest Hours that
was when dreams were really Vivid and
they were really coming to me and
absolutely I'm convinced it was my my
unconscious or my soul trying to rescue
me trying to give give me advice and I
do think it's pretty much infall
what it will tell you so that would be
my my one last thought pay attention to
your dreams now I actually have a
question about that because I I can
never remember my dreams is there
something technique well this is
absolutely true John I mean I'm the same
way dream for whatever it is dreams
evaporate that's why I think you
absolutely have to train yourself to get
out your phone or whatever it is in that
moment you we always say to ourselves oh
there's no way I'll forget this this so
vivid and then like two minutes later
it's completely gone you don't even know
what it was so you do have to sort of
train yourself in those moments roll
over grab your iPhone you know dictate
just enough into the that you'll
remember it in the morning um but that's
a skill that you sort of have to teach
yourself to uh and if you think about
you know the in the Primitive man or the
you know whatever it is the
shaman yeah that was his skill to uh to
access the unconscious and to pay
attention to those to dreams you know so
it's a it's a really important thing I
think so this inner work like listening
to your subconscious and your dreams my
I've got a little twist on this Mark I'm
just like try and hold on to yourself
when you are daydreaming about things
wouldn't it be great right though you
know those ideas that you have uh I
could imagine a life like you you come
across someone who are living a life or
doing some work and you go gosh how
would I love to do that right yeah like
it really grabs you so I'm not talking
about you're in bed and you're having a
dream whilst that is totally valid I'm
like being even more practical when you
find yourself justes Jay dreaming about
work or people that are living life and
doing things that you think I could be
doing or I would like to do grab those
moments because I think that's
somehow life revealing to you this is
your path I'm sure there's whole episode
we need to do on following your path and
purpose but I think tuning into that is
is vital don't entertain your dreams and
don't and not take record of them yeah
right I think you're totally right Mike
there there's there's the there's the
build that we could do into that
subconscious mind whereby you're in a
hectic or stress situation in your body
and your mind is creating um let's call
lessons while you're unconscious you
know and i' I got into a habit of
writing down my dreams sometimes and you
know Steven's right if you write it down
if you don't write it down you're going
to forget it oh yeah but I think the key
thing exactly as you were just um
building towards there is this power of
reflecting and knowing your dreams
consciously as well so whether that's by
comparison to others hey I really like
that life that somebody has maybe I want
to be just like JK Rowling and and that
dream dream of mine is to create an
empire of of of books or whatever it
might be but it's really I think
understanding and noticing those moments
within your day whereby you get
excitement and you get a Glee and an an
enthusiasm and an energy around
something that you could call your dream
maybe it's a passion for talking to
others maybe it's taking care of others
maybe it's a passion for creating new
products or projects
reflecting via journaling reflecting via
talking to someone or maybe as Stephen
saying put it in a tape recorder right
as long as I think you acknowledge it
then that dream becomes a little bit
more of a reality rather than something
that's just in the back of your head
that maybe you forget sometimes yes and
you commit it down to paper maybe you
put it on your wall or your background
of your laptop or it's something that
stays in your Journal whereby only you
can check it out I think this idea of
the dream is something that as long as
you make reference to and notice yes you
can actually strive towards getting
there can't you you really can so a
great exercise I'd recommend to all of
our listeners viewers and members is
take 10 minutes to dream about the
Legacy that you want to
live and what people remember about you
and
that that is your Northstar right
imagine what is being
said at your
funeral right yeah yeah and reverse
engineer from that because that that for
me is the biggest wakeup call right as a
middle-aged guy I'm like oh gez what is
my legacy gonna be
right dear and that'll get you going and
that'll give you fuel like crazy right
like you will be off to the Moon if you
connect with that that is your dream
right so go out and live
well Mark we got some serious advice
from Mr prfi we started with the agenda
of being creative we didn't uh quite
realize that this me going to war Mark
lots of themes lots of things we can
work on what are you going to work on as
a result of this
show it's really acknowledging and
referencing and uh appreciating the
valley of darkness the hero's journey
for all of us takes place so when I'm in
that moment where things are getting a
little bit tough maybe I'm thinking
about running away instead I'm going to
bat down the hatches and make sure I
fight my way through it because there
are lessons to be learned that's for me
Mike such a big aha moment it's
fantastic what about you today on Steven
pressfield's book so I liked it that
that hero's journey piece as well but
I'm I'm going to go for feeding the
courage Wolf
how good is that very practical yeah
feed that wolf all right Mark listen a
big thank you to you and I thank you to
you our listeners viewers and members
too here on show
264 where we looked at the work of
Steven prfi the war of Art and there
were four big ideas that started with
the idea that we all suffer the same
internal challenges fear and
self-doubt but we need to recognize that
if we are feeling lost and we're out
there in the wilderness or the valley of
darkness that this is just part of the
required steps of the hero's journey so
we can go out and we can Embrace and
face resistance we can feed that courage
with we can live the life that we dream
of we can do the inner work on ourselves
to be the best version of ourselves and
you can do that right here you can learn
out loud together with all of us here at
the Moon
podcast that's a wrap