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Conversations about things that interest me… until they don’t. Because new = shiny ✨
Featuring cool people and unbridled banter.
Dive in. Jump out. Rinse. Repeat.
Erica Alshuler (00:59)
midlife awakenings because this is part de. First up is Chai Ming Rho. First part of her name pronounced like the T, spelled like the pet. And she is the founder of Coastal Homestead, an edible garden design business. this also led to her role as a content creator.
whether intended or not. former finance and consultant exec and mother of two all around badass and fellow ADHD friend who has what seems like endless energy and inspires me all the time. So we're so happy to have her. And we are also welcoming the incredible Marjorie, don't call her Marge Tong. Like I really keep thinking I can make it happen and it's not gonna happen. I've accepted that.
She's the founder and designer of Junaday, the only EMF shielding activewear for pregnancy and beyond and undeniably the most stylish. Former risk manager, aka her corporate downtown job I never fully understood and can't find on LinkedIn. So you'll correct me when I give you the chance. Something to do with risk. Mother of three. And I think of as an unofficial.
wellness influencer, nutrition wellness influencer, and natural wine expert to those that are lucky enough to talk to her about it. So both of you welcome so much to the show. First off, before we get to hear from you guys, I like to remind people that we don't need to take notes or scramble or Google. I will share all the ways to find these beautiful women and their businesses after and through all the social media channels and whatnot.
And then I need to catch the audience or listener, as my favorite podcast, Smart List says, there was one listener who will be out there, up on a few things. Our relationship, the three of us, somehow connected when we were in the height of our corporate lives and dropping off our kids hurriedly and picking them up at the last possible minute when we were definitely not interested in just standing around and chatting.
Somehow, after I guess almost four years of our being in the same class at daycare group, we became friends. So on the scope of new mom friends, we have some mileage. So this is special to have us all on together. I'm grateful for that. And then lastly, catching you two up on what happened in the prior conversation.
I kind of sprung this concept of midlife awakening on my first two guests who made similar, you know, scary leaps from their corporate careers into something they were more passionate about and entrepreneurial and risky. We talked about listening to your inner child or maybe like looking back and trying to reconnect to your inner child to figure out really lit you up. We talked about unlearning a bit of what society had told us was important and that we should focus on.
of course finding more purpose, what felt like purpose and passion in our work, in air quotes, hope it doesn't feel that way all the and of course how rocky that road could be and how it wasn't just a smooth ride to get to this big scary place. it felt completely natural that I would bring you two on to tell your experience about these big defining moments in your career.
And they happened around relatively around the same time. But if I'm remembering correctly, Chai Ming, you started Coastal Homestead first because you were doing it on the side of your corporate hustle, which, you know, Energizer Bunny, I don't know how you did that. And I love the story of how it came to be, your journey. It's kind of so pure and moving. And so if you would please dive in and tell us how you got this all started.
Chia-Ming Ro (04:27)
Sure. Thanks for having me, Erica. This is actually really exciting. We've had so many different conversations over brunch, late nights, like the three of us, and we can never have enough. So I love having another channel that we can connect. And not just as moms, right? Like as entrepreneurs in this, like you said, mid-life awakening. I started in 2020 with an idea. When everything was shut down.
Erica Alshuler (04:39)
Yeah
Marjorie Tong (04:54)
Thanks for watching!
Chia-Ming Ro (04:55)
and I did what everyone else could do, garden a lot, right? That was one of the two things. I already was a lifelong gardener, but then I wasn't allowed to renovate the inside of my home. So what do I do? I do the outside. And with that, I realized I was meeting neighbors I never spoke to before, even though I lived here for a year. And I thought I could do this for other people. And really it was that one little idea. And also if I could say,
Erica Alshuler (05:00)
Yeah
Marjorie Tong (05:01)
Thank you.
Chia-Ming Ro (05:23)
In March 2020, when everything shut down in LA, that was my birthday, my 39th birthday. So when you're talking about midlife awakening, it couldn't have been a different timing. And so I said to myself in July, oh, well maybe I could do this for other people. my math might be a little off, but I had nine more months of runway before I turned 40. And I said, you know what? I'm gonna give it a go.
Erica Alshuler (05:33)
Hahaha
Chia-Ming Ro (05:48)
and my first client ever was like a tiny little patio. That was it, but I was so excited that they were willing to pay me $750 to bring in some pots, dirt, and Sure, I'll do it, right? And then now... Right, exactly. So I turned 40 in March of 2021 and I had to make a decision and luckily...
Erica Alshuler (06:03)
Gotta start somewhere.
Chia-Ming Ro (06:13)
when you mentioned content creator, somehow by sharing what I was doing on Instagram, it resonated with people and I grew a small following which created brand partnerships. And so I was able to really dive into that. And Facebook came about my senior year of college. So social media is not something I grew up with and I had to learn and teach myself and
Marjorie Tong (06:14)
Thank you.
Yeah.
Erica Alshuler (06:35)
Hehehe
Marjorie Tong (06:37)
Thanks for watching!
Chia-Ming Ro (06:40)
constantly have do what is not natural for us. But yeah, that was how I was able to make that leap is I have the design and install side of my business as well as the content creation. And I hear all of these say, you know, bet on yourself, invest in yourself. And I think that was really missed in our childhood.
Turning 40, I thought, wow, when am I going to? I don't wanna look back. So now is the time. So that's kind of the little nutshell.
Erica Alshuler (07:14)
I love that. Nothing like a scary birthday to make you rethink life
Chia-Ming Ro (07:19)
Yeah, like my career was in finance. Everyone's always going to need numbers people. If I really fell on my face for this, I said, you know what, I'll give myself until 40. And if I fall on my face, I'll go back. I'm not going you get it.
Erica Alshuler (07:35)
the story about, you know, an idea snowballing into, well, let me try it for one person and small and then, oh, that led to this other thing. is a little bit of when you're aligning with something you're actually passionate about, then that snowball happens.
are passionate about it, you're talking about it, you get a connection with someone else. It doesn't happen when you're in a dead-end job that doesn't light you up. Even though it can be hard and scary, I think something we touched on in the first conversation was the, it feels bigger and easier and more exciting the more and more you lean into it. It doesn't mean it's easy from the get-go, but when you're in alignment, some of the friction is removed.
Marjorie Tong (08:15)
Yeah.
Erica Alshuler (08:17)
New words, Frickshman. that being said, Marjorie, tell us a little more about the circumstances or idea and the germination of all this and how it led to Junaday.
Marjorie Tong (08:28)
Yeah, so like Chai Ming, it was 2020, went from working a corporate which was an underwriting position for Fortune 500 companies, there you go. It has to do with risk, yes, but I was not a risk manager, I was an underwriter. I was analyzing risk, maybe that's where you got that. Yes, yes.
Erica Alshuler (08:37)
Does that have to do with risk? Okay.
Thank you, thank you.
That is what I was thinking of, but you know, I said I wanted a podcast where I didn't have to do a lot of prep, so here we are.
Marjorie Tong (08:56)
Yeah, no, and that's all you need to know, nothing more glamorous than that. So I went from working, you know, job in downtown LA every day to sitting at home with a laptop on my lab all day, every day. And you know, there was a lot of challenges, of course, as parents of small children, we're on the same page with.
the madness that was happening at home. But on top of that, I was experiencing some really strange health symptoms that were in addition to the stress and too much wine drinking at night to ease the pain of the situation. yes, definitely have reined it in I had still trying.
Erica Alshuler (09:32)
another episode we'll talk about sometime. Ha ha ha.
I don't know if I have. Continue.
Marjorie Tong (09:40)
Yeah. I developed some very strange health symptoms, which were, I knew, separate and apart from just the stress of lockdown. And I had, in 2015, shortly after my twins were born, developed a lot of symptoms that were like rheumatoid arthritis.
The doctors couldn't tell me what was wrong with me. They offered me pain medication all day long, but I refused and decided to kind of figure out what was going on with my health instead on my own. And through that process, I cleaned up everything I put on my body, in my body, food, cleaning products, skincare, all of that. And I got to a pretty good place.
With my health, I overcame a lot of the stuff I was dealing with and just kind of kept on this path of wellness. So in 2020, when I was developing these strange symptoms again, it was almost like I had slid back into that time period again. I was faced again with symptoms the doctors couldn't diagnose. I went to the doctor and he was like, oh, here's mania depresence. And I'm like, no, this is something else.
Erica Alshuler (10:47)
Yes.
Marjorie Tong (10:48)
so I just started trying to figure it out again. And what I ultimately came to after doing some trial and error was a sensitivity to electromagnetic frequencies, EMF. So that's your wireless radiation coming off of your cell phones and laptops and tablets. And it all made sense very quickly because I went from, you know, sitting at a desk with a wired desktop.
to a laptop on my lap, directly on my body with my cell phone next to me for hours and hours a day. Oh yeah, which yeah, it was great because I got to learn how to change those exposures for them.
Erica Alshuler (11:23)
and all your kids on iPads right around you. Ha ha ha.
Marjorie Tong (11:30)
So yeah, some of the maybe your listeners would be interested is, I was having tingling in my face. My lips were tingling. I was having pain and aches in my fingers that would go up my arms. I was having like 40 minute long panic attacks. My sleep was awful. And I was having a really hard time focusing long enough to send like work emails.
once I learned how to kind of do this digital detox and, you know, wire our TVs at home, turn off the Wi-Fi at night, all these small changes that really actually made a big difference for me. It was almost immediate. Once you remove something like this, and this is what I discovered in 2015, especially with makeup, once I took all of that toxic makeup out of my routine,
you know, grab that NARS lip gloss and put it on, I knew immediately when my lymph glands swelled up that that's where the toxins were. So it was very similar when I started eliminating this EMF exposure. So from there, I, made the changes, I was feeling better, but it was all just kind of a perfect storm. My job had been unsatisfying for years and years. I think I spent my 15 years of corporate.
Chia-Ming Ro (12:37)
Okay.
Marjorie Tong (12:50)
trying to find a way out. But unsuccessfully, they kept paying me too much money, so I kept staying. And my health issues and then childcare issues and it was just kind of this perfect storm of everything, unsupportive bosses, this and that. And so I ended up stepping away. I think I finally resigned
Chia-Ming Ro (12:50)
Thanks.
Erica Alshuler (12:53)
Hehehehe
Marjorie Tong (13:11)
because I wanted to think about, well, what is my future work life going to be like? What am I going to do? I have a hard time just not keeping busy. I decided to take an online business course because that was the jam in 2020. And so oh, I'm going to be a teacher.
Erica Alshuler (13:25)
Hahaha
Marjorie Tong (13:28)
opportunity was offered to all of the students to apply for a six-figure branding scholarship for your business. So you pitched a panel of entrepreneurs and then they would decide award the winner of this branding scholarship. A well-known branding agency in LA that's done a lot of recognizable brands. so I had this idea related to EMF exposure because all of the
was made for men. It was either men's underwear or the cut was manly or it was just t-shirts or it was boring or ugly. Nothing I would wear out of the house, right? But it was effective. So I thought, okay, well, you know, I really want to do these clothes, but I want it to be stylish and fun and something you want to wear and something that I can, you know, take outside the house. And I imagine they're-
if there are men out there buying these clothes, there's probably a whole host of women out there who would like the same thing. I was especially concerned thinking about the laptop on my lap about how close it is to our reproductive parts and seeing pregnant women with their devices on their belly. And it was just, it was very, very concerning based on all the research I had done up to that point.
So I pitched this idea and this was just an idea. I had absolutely zero idea if I could even make it work. I didn't know if it was possible, but I pitched it anyway and I won. So I was like, oh, well, I guess I'm starting a business. Yeah. Actually, oh yeah, I kind of looked at, my husband was like,
Erica Alshuler (14:55)
Hehehe
So now it was real.
More than just a sign.
Marjorie Tong (15:15)
What have I done? Like, I guess this is it. So, January, 2021, I started interviewing manufacturers, talking to people in the textile industry, whoever would talk to me about this, learning as much as I could, attending conferences, et then it took a lot of trial and error.
Erica Alshuler (15:17)
Hehehehe
Marjorie Tong (15:38)
The first manufacturer we had to part ways because it was we just couldn't get with the product and Then the universe sent this other woman and we Brainstormed we problem solved we figured out how to make it work And we made a belly band first that covers a pregnant belly and then from that model we Were able to take it to the other styles
we have, which are the legging, the unitard, a body suit, and a play suit.
Erica Alshuler (16:07)
which I have two of and love. Not pregnant, they look great, I swear.
Marjorie Tong (16:10)
Yeah, I actually saw you in one recently and I was like, wow, what is that? I love that like orange label. That must be a really cool new brand. You're like, oh, it's cool.
Erica Alshuler (16:23)
It was your own. That's the sign. The sign that you still like your designs. Yes.
Marjorie Tong (16:27)
I'm glad it looks good on the screen.
Yeah.
Chia-Ming Ro (16:32)
Well, and Marjorie, if I may cut in, I remember that time and you telling me about your idea. correct me if I'm wrong, didn't you have some background or interest in design and fashion? Because I remember vividly like Marjorie is holding back and not telling us that she can draw. Like you had these amazing sketches and you know we only get to see one side when we're in between,
I don't even remember what you call that stage, baby life, like that's so far Like we only got to see the mom side. We didn't get to see like the before life. tying it back to the mid life awakening, it's like remembering what we used to do and know and love and kind of how do we bring that back? So yeah, I just remember that you had these amazing sketches.
Erica Alshuler (16:59)
Yeah. Preschool, baby life, yeah.
Chia-Ming Ro (17:22)
I can't draw like that, so I'm always very envious.
Marjorie Tong (17:22)
Yes.
Erica Alshuler (17:23)
Yes.
Marjorie Tong (17:25)
So maybe this is a great segue to start talking our childhood dreams and passions or how this all ties in with our midlife, you know, getting back to what, is kind of at our core and got squashed down by expectations. Yeah. for a very long time, mostly in my teen years, I was a little bit of
Erica Alshuler (17:32)
Yes, yes, please.
Mm-hmm.
Chia-Ming Ro (17:44)
motherhood.
Marjorie Tong (17:49)
I thought I was going to be a fashion designer. That's what I wanted to do. it was fashion design, apparel design, costume design. There was a point where I thought maybe costume design was going to be in my future. And I would go to the Shakespeare Festival in Ashland and got to go backstage and look at all the costumes up close. And so I went to University of Oregon and
Erica Alshuler (18:06)
Wow.
Marjorie Tong (18:10)
and I studied fine arts there and supplemented with costume design and apparel so when I graduated, one of my first jobs out of college was actually at Pacific Northwest Ballet. I was hired just entry-level job, but knowing
that I had this apparel background and interest in costume design. I was able to spend time in the costume design that was right there in the building. So I got to see that hands-on. so then when I moved to LA, I moved to LA thinking I was going to go to Otis or Fidum or kind of continue with this apparel design path.
you know, sometimes life takes you in directions in an unexpected way. And
Erica Alshuler (18:49)
this is mind blowing. I actually didn't know this background. It's funny what you don't cover with friends when you're talking about all like the real life. I didn't know any of this. I mean, it reminds me of my mom who also always wanted to do fashion. She was of a different era where it was like, her parents said, that's not a career. You don't get to do that. And so that was very different. I'm so curious and actually think this is a really cool avenue to explore of.
Marjorie Tong (18:55)
Yeah.
Chia-Ming Ro (18:55)
I didn't know that you actually do.
Marjorie Tong (18:58)
Yeah.
Erica Alshuler (19:13)
not just how we make the choice to make these big decisions, but let's look back at what took us off them in the first place. I know you just said life has a different direction, but what was it? What led you to not risk management, but underwriting?
Chia-Ming Ro (19:30)
I'm ready.
Marjorie Tong (19:30)
Well, yeah, I moved to LA and I needed a job. I needed to pay rent. I kind of moved without a plan other than, oh, I'll get down there and then I'll enroll. Like I went and met with the recruiters and all that stuff. And it was just like, oh, wait, crap, I don't have a job. I forgot about that part.
I got this job, my first insurance job. I was like, oh, this is great. I have a salary, I have benefits. I can pay my rent. This is awesome. And I could probably go to school. But yeah, no, that schedule didn't mesh. it just, yeah. And then this job, I would get promoted or I would go to another company and they would just keep paying me more and more and more to the point where it was like I couldn't quit.
Erica Alshuler (20:03)
It just gets pushed and pushed and pushed.
Marjorie Tong (20:15)
It was like, you're paying me too much and you get used to nicer places to live and a nicer car to drive. And then you start a family And then all the benefits. And it's like, you just get to a point where it's like, I can't walk away. I did four years at UCLA in the landscape architecture program too, because that was another interest of mine. I was like, well, if I'm not doing fashion, I can do this extension program on the side while I'm still working.
Erica Alshuler (20:16)
Yeah.
Well then you start a family there, yeah!
Marjorie Tong (20:41)
And that was insanity. But once I finished that, I was like, well, I'm not going to go for 25 grand a year when I'm making, you know, four times that. And I've got all these other benefits. So, sometimes just kind of get sucked into it and have to kind of keep, keep some of this stuff as a hobby and just find pleasure in it as a hobby.
Erica Alshuler (20:54)
Yeah.
WAH
Marjorie Tong (21:04)
Um, and.
Erica Alshuler (21:05)
And the system's a little broken because even if you do find the gap in your Maybe my children aren't so little anymore, we're in a financial position, I can explore something new and take a risk. I mean, I remember I sent a heartfelt letter at three in the morning to a friend I know who's an interior designer. I had similar creative ambitions being like, can I just work for free for you? Because
I'm in a position where I can do that right all the ways I can add value, but here's what I want to learn from you." but it didn't pan She needed her interns. She could boss around, not me, transitioning in way is so hard. You either have to know from the onset and be so confident.
I'm going to be like all these people in Hollywood who are going to just grind and be prepared to be a starving artist until I make it or don't. Or you choose some level of comfort and stability and then you're locked in You mentioned hobby Marjorie, which I...
very much relate to. And I want to ask you, Chyming, about the same thing, because for me, this had started as feeling lost when I'm not a mother and I'm not a corporate executive, then what do I even like to do that isn't eating food and drinking wine or watching TV? Like, this can't be it, right? And I tried gardening with y'all during COVID. You even gave me a tomato thing and it did not last. So I understand a lot more about my brain and why that didn't last now.
Marjorie Tong (22:21)
LAUGHS
Erica Alshuler (22:27)
this search for a hobby for me also led to my, journey with this podcast that is very much more recent than yours. Chai Ming, I know yours, like you said, was a hobby. Was there some other path you saw for yourself? And how different was it?
Chia-Ming Ro (22:41)
So while I was listening to Marjorie, I had to think about like, oh, that was a while ago, right? Like how far back are we talking about? You know, I would say for me, there was the societal stuff, but there's also a cultural background. So I'm Taiwanese, I came to the US when I was three. And so there's actually, as I'm now 43, I'm unpacking a lot of the generational.
Erica Alshuler (22:47)
Hahaha
Marjorie Tong (22:48)
Yeah.
Chia-Ming Ro (23:06)
baggage that my parents had and then I unknowingly carried. I know everyone has their own, but for me specifically, it was the stereotype of you should be a doctor, a lawyer, or something in business. So when it came to deciding in high school, you take your career path, like little survey, everything said ding, go into psychology. You would be great for
helping people and therapy and like that. And so I told my mom and she goes, oh, but that has like the highest suicide rate. So don't do that. Right? And I'm like, okay, mom, because I'm 17, I don't know. my mom was like,
Erica Alshuler (23:52)
Well, and we also didn't have a good picture, the sorry to interrupt, this is consistent across the board, that those career thoughts include what? Psychologist and psychiatrist, like therapists, you're like, oh wait, there's actually an array of ways of connecting with people, helping people that could have fit that mold, that you could have veered towards more, but that's not how it was presented in our day. And maybe it's changing hopefully for the better,
Chia-Ming Ro (24:13)
No. 100.
Erica Alshuler (24:16)
While maybe your mom wasn't wrong and that isn't the path you should have gone I see your point completely.
Chia-Ming Ro (24:21)
if you take a pin kind of pin that thought of like the helping, the therapy and all that, and you just pin that thought right there. And then we go into college selection, live in California. So obviously we try UCs, right? My mom just said, I don't care. Check all the boxes, even if you can't make it in, we're going to just give it a shot. Right.
I did that and then each one you have to say which major. And my dad is a scientist, master's, PhD, the whole like. So my mom says, well, don't be a scientist because you're just gonna sit in a lab all day. Don't do that, you'll be like your dad, that's boring. Then she's like, English was not your first language despite the fact that I came to the US when I was three. So in hindsight, it kind of is my first language even though I speak Mandarin fluently.
Marjorie Tong (24:43)
Thanks for watching!
Thanks for watching!
Chia-Ming Ro (25:11)
So she's like, don't do anything English or literature related because you won't be good at that. Then she's like, don't do anything history related because not great at memorizing accurate on that one. So fine. So she's like, wait, remember, exactly. And then there was the message of like, well, just go into accounting because it's steady, right? And you'll get paid.
Erica Alshuler (25:23)
She knew you well and had some very strong opinions. There we go.
Chia-Ming Ro (25:37)
and you can sit at a desk, it's secure in a building, and you can just sit and be pretty, go to work and then be a wife and the whole thing. So I say that story because that's kind of pretty typical of the message we got as girls growing up. I don't think it was only cultural either, but later on security, right? What did our parents go through where...
A steady paycheck was very, very important next to having food on the table. It meant food on the table, right? Like some shelter. Whereas right now, I don't have a steady paycheck because I'm gig to gig. And is it unnerving? Absolutely. Was it tolerable for my parents' generation? Probably, like very few could. So anyway, that's kind of the longer story of how I ended up in finance and accounting for 17 years.
Marjorie Tong (26:24)
Thank you.
Chia-Ming Ro (26:32)
And again, Marjorie saying, you get paid a certain amount, and then you start climbing that ladder before you know that those golden handcuffs have handcuffed you to that ladder. And you're like, crap, it's a long way down to shift ladder. yeah.
Marjorie Tong (26:34)
And that's all.
Yeah.
Erica Alshuler (26:46)
Yup.
Well, and you said something else that I wanted to call attention to, which was putting food on the table. So stability in the form of pay and job security that is carried with us from generations and even stronger in certain cultural generations. But that's also part of your story, right?
Marjorie Tong (26:48)
Yeah.
Thanks for watching!
Erica Alshuler (27:13)
you decided to teach your family and then ultimately others, you know, how to grow their own food, right?
Chia-Ming Ro (27:20)
my consultancy for like gardening related is really specifically on food and flowers because that's what I like to do. I can't eat a succulent no matter how pretty it is. Although dragon fruit is the one succulent, I will grow because you can eat let's be honest, we're entrepreneurs, we're moms. We just don't have that bandwidth right now. And at this point in time, I only have dead houseplants in my house because I don't-
I don't have that bandwidth. I have chickens, I have a dog, a cat, or two dogs, and I have two kids and a husband. So I kind of have to make sure that my effort, there's something that is like rewarding in the end. But I chose to grow food because it took the whole world stopping in a way and pausing,
Erica Alshuler (28:01)
Absolutely.
Chia-Ming Ro (28:08)
to realize how few people knew how food got to their plate. Like some kids were saying, you know, where do you get, how does broccoli grow? At the grocery store. It's like, whoa, that huge disconnect. And as adults, we know that there was pipeline issues and all of that. We understand that. We can kind of backtrack and be like, okay, got it. But the kids don't understand that. And if you think about what they know,
Marjorie Tong (28:29)
Thank you.
Chia-Ming Ro (28:38)
and how in tune with technology they are, they're only gonna get further and further behind. as part of my mission, it's to educate kids, but you gotta start with their parents because there's so many parents who are like, yeah, I don't wanna deal with that. It's dirty, there's bugs, but that trickles down. And my goal is not for anyone to grow 100% of their food in this day and age.
Marjorie Tong (28:50)
Thank you.
Chia-Ming Ro (29:02)
It's just not prudent with your time, right? Or your budget. But knowing like, okay, this one grows from seed, this one don't bother, or buy these, grow those, things like that, I think kids really know. And most recently I just did the public school right here, the garden, and I was shocked. I was shocked. And I was shocked how many kids
Erica Alshuler (29:06)
Mm-hmm.
Marjorie Tong (29:06)
Yeah.
Thank you.
Erica Alshuler (29:22)
that many of our kids go to and it's beautiful.
Chia-Ming Ro (29:29)
First, I planted a lot of different things, but the highlight one for, I think, most of the kids was the purple cauliflower. But these kids had never seen it growing off of the plant. They've only seen it in the plastic wrap sitting on the shelf. I thought some kids would try it. But when harvested it and I said, who wants to try it?
Every single kid wanted to try a piece because it was purple. They don't know that it tastes the same as white cauliflower. It's just cool, right?
Erica Alshuler (29:58)
Well, my kids must not have been in that group because mine wouldn't, which is so sad, but that's a whole other story. Nope.
Chia-Ming Ro (30:02)
I did not see your kid that day. But we're gonna change that. And the thing is, you don't have to like it, but just to know, right? I was shocked how many kids asked for seconds. I mean, my kid didn't like it, but because of peer pressure, positive peer pressure in this case, he actually tried it. If it was at home, there's no way he would try that. So...
Erica Alshuler (30:09)
Let's try it.
Marjorie Tong (30:13)
Thanks for watching!
Chia-Ming Ro (30:27)
These are the little things that, you know, if we go back to my original pin it, that thought of helping and therapy and things like that, kind of how I've ended up full circle into gardening and food and how that really ties us back into life as it was technology and things like that. And I think that also ties to what Marjorie is talking about where before we had all of this
Marjorie Tong (30:30)
Thank you.
Erica Alshuler (30:34)
Mm-hmm.
Chia-Ming Ro (30:54)
you know, Wi-Fi technology and things like that, all of the EMF, it really has impacted us, right? So how do we get back to a healthier baseline?
Marjorie Tong (30:59)
Thank you.
Erica Alshuler (31:05)
Well, and both of you have this underpinning of helping, whether or not it was flagged on a test for you, Marjorie, or not. You found your way into something you were passionate about and creative about through a personal experience, but then also the experience to help others. so I'm curious if, Marjorie, that plays as big a role for you. And there's no judgment if it doesn't, if it's like, oh, I love designing the clothes and I wanna make a business.
Chia-Ming Ro (31:11)
in soup.
Erica Alshuler (31:32)
I mean, how does it feel touch on this idea of purpose? Does it feel, in addition to tapping into something that you had given up before, creative passion, how does it feel good to kind of have tapped into something that feels purposeful and helpful? And people always say that. I always preached that to my teams of trying to connect to the purpose and the mission of the company, but it wasn't real there. This feels like it's real.
Marjorie Tong (31:47)
Okay.
Right.
Yeah. so that was just part of the mission. I mean, it was like, okay, here I am as a mom learning all this stuff and saying way too often, I wish I'd known. Like, I wish I'd known that my infants, my babies shouldn't be sleeping in a room with a Wi-Fi router. I wish I'd known. I wish I'd known I should not have been scrolling for an hour.
with my phone on my belly waiting for my doctor's appointment. Like all these things I just wish I'd known. And so when I embarked on June a day, I was like, that's what it's about. It's about helping other women know that this exposure is out there, that it's harmful, and that there are easy solutions.
I can't change anyone's view about EMFs and the exposure, but I can offer a place where there's some knowledge and resources. it's something I wish I, you know, I didn't have to spend hours and hours and hours and hours and hours of my own time and research, you know, collating all this information. I'm glad I did. But if I can...
you know, present it to other, design minded women who, appreciate style at the same time and fashion and just want to look good and feel good. But also on the same time, like giving them an opportunity to not have to say, oh, I wish I'd known. Like here's someone kind of like me who's talking about this. She's not a tin foil hat cuckoo lady. I mean, maybe someone thinks that.
Erica Alshuler (33:36)
Hehehehehehehehe
Marjorie Tong (33:38)
that, yes, absolutely. That was first and foremost,
Erica Alshuler (33:42)
I love that we were honest about like kind of where I was when you started this journey. I was like, I want you to educate me. I want to learn about this. my dad is the ultimate skeptic. I always joke that he subscribed to the literal magazine Skeptical Inquirer. So if I told him and when he hears this, he's gonna be like, oh, fooey, you know? all that to say, like, I'm open-minded. I wanted to learn about this. But I love that.
preachy in your work, you're just helpful, but that you did, Marjorie, make it stylish enough that you let people in like me who are like, well, I like it enough. And like, if it's also helping me, great, you know? And especially for someone who is ready to pull out all the stops if any period in their life when they're pregnant, like that's when you go above and beyond and turn into this person you didn't think you were. I love that. And then that was just me praising you and your business. But.
I also want to say I think you can change people's perspectives on this. I think being exactly what you said, someone who isn't feeling like on extreme end of a spectrum and is incorporating these types of lifestyle changes into your regular life and talking casually with people about it, I think you absolutely can change people's opinions on it and are kind of actively changing mine. So I mean, I probably won't wear these earbuds the next time. I got to go find my wired ones. Well.
Marjorie Tong (34:36)
Thank you.
And that was the whole thing. I didn't want to alienate anyone. And the reality is that these phones and tablets and laptops are a tool in our modern life. We live a connected life. And whether we like it or not, it's just part of our I've never preached, I get rid of it.
Erica Alshuler (35:06)
Yeah.
Marjorie Tong (35:26)
You know, it's like, but if yeah, I mean, I'd love to live on airplane mode, but it's not realistic. So, you know, if you're you've got them, you're using them, like, here's a way to give you a little protection. It's something. It's not, all or nothing. So, yeah, it needed to be approachable.
Erica Alshuler (35:27)
Go off the grid.
Chia-Ming Ro (35:44)
I think what you just said right there, I think what you said right there Marjorie, the it's not all or is the piece that we oftentimes when you want to start something new, it's all or nothing. Right. When people want to grow food, they think they need to have a farm. No, you just need a pot. Right. so it's these little things. And even when.
Erica Alshuler (35:44)
Yeah?
Chia-Ming Ro (36:07)
I was trying to make the leap to leave corporate life into this next stage. In my head, it's like all or nothing, right? And so you kind of psych yourself out of taking that step. And I remember there is some study that your brain will keep you where you are because that's known. Whether you're happy or not doesn't matter. It's predictability, your brain knows. And so it's actually even harder to make positive change.
Erica Alshuler (36:15)
Yeah.
Chia-Ming Ro (36:35)
It doesn't even matter if it's positive or negative change. The fact that it's changed is just harder. So yes.
Erica Alshuler (36:40)
And that's evolutionary, you know, it was safer to stay where you knew that plants weren't poisonous. Yeah, yeah. Well, and I love.
Chia-Ming Ro (36:47)
Yeah, just stick with what you know.
Erica Alshuler (36:50)
I love this idea and I love that it's this recurring theme that's come up in so many of my discussions. I will reiterate what I call it for me. I call it stepping into the garage because my ADHD coach taught me about when you just take one step into a project, if you find that first entry point, it's not nearly as paralyzing. My friend who joined the first part of this conversation called it an inspired action. That's what her studies call it.
movement has begun, right? And then you're in object in motion, stays in motion. And so for me, it was, I wanted to clear out a part in my garage and I was afraid of all the work. And by the minute I just stepped into the garage to assess, which was my end point, I realized it wasn't nearly, I'd forgotten all the work I'd already done and it was totally manageable. So I love that you bring that up and it rings true for people getting in touch with this part of themselves in any way, shape or form, hobby, career change
Marjorie Tong (37:28)
Thank you.
Erica Alshuler (37:43)
I also love the idea of tying it to inspiration, which is something that's really important to me in this journey of mine, I was doing values work with my therapist, where we were revisiting my personal values that we hadn't kind of touched on a while, see how if they're still aligned and what those are. It's a crazy exercise to start. Then once you do it, you're like, wow, this is extremely
I couldn't put my finger on this itch I had to like, I kept judging myself or it was my most shame inducing thing that I'd think about, but it obviously was something real in me, which was the, I kept thinking, oh, I wanna be famous or I wanna have celebrity or like, I like lots of people liking me, whatever you could drill it down to, it made me feel icky all over until I realized.
actually, if I put on a really rad outfit that I spend a lot of time thinking about, it's my favorite joy, but if someone compliments me on it, I'm actually pretty uncomfortable. I don't love getting a compliment. So I actually know it's not that, it's not this vanity or this whatever. Maybe that person was like, God, I wore all black, I wish I'd worn something with a cool pattern. I realized once I figured out it was inspiration, that was what drove me. And that sounded so cheesy to me before. And so,
the baby steps of if someone just follows you on Coastal Homestead or hears you talk, Marjorie, even learns about your line from this one podcast, that is an to maybe learn more about something, maybe plant that one pot, maybe follow up on that recommendation for pelvic floor physical therapy after they hear my podcast on that. Whatever it is, inspiration is connection
It's small, it's a baby step, it's something we can all get behind and it feels so That was definitely not a question, that was me just saying, it all feels so related, right?
Marjorie Tong (39:28)
Thank you.
Chia-Ming Ro (39:36)
It is because what you're touching upon is very plant world. Cause I kind of see the world through plants now, obviously. And you're planting all these seeds, right? And you're just gonna see what grows, right? I'll see through there. I can apply almost anything to plants.
Marjorie Tong (39:36)
Right.
Erica Alshuler (39:49)
Ooh, look where we went there, okay.
Marjorie Tong (39:51)
Thank you.
and I think some of what you're saying too is about roadblocks that we put up for ourselves and whether it's learned behavior like chiming your parents' expectations, my parents' expectations too. I was embarrassed to say I wanted to be a fashion designer. I thought it was frivolous. So when I went to Oregon, I was signing up for business classes
my dad worked the same job until he retired. I mean, that was stable. That was the thing you did and, you know, anything else. And even when I got accepted to RISD in my sophomore year, my parents were like, ooh, no, oh, what? No. And it was scary for them. And I was excited about it and proud that I had gotten that kind of recognition, but I took on their fear about it. And I didn't go.
And it's like you hold on to these things, these roadblocks, these insecurities that are going to keep you from taking that inspired puts up these monumental blockades of making things feel too big to get out of that comfort zone and whether it's ingrained from childhood or something you learn along the way in adulthood.
as an entrepreneur, when you still you want to make that midlife jump, it's definitely one of the things that makes it really hard, really hard.
Erica Alshuler (41:21)
So it's not just the waiting for the sign or the inspiration or inspired moment. It's also the active kind of stripping away of some of these insecurities and roadblocks that can be mental 95% of the time, but obviously physical too, where you're who's your support system and all of that. I love where this conversation has taken us.
I like to think about, because the podcast is called Shiny for the Moment, why right now is this something that is so talked about and common in the world that we live in? is it...
COVID that inspired both of you guys, circumstances around COVID. Is it a larger universe shift that's happening that maybe COVID was a part of? Is it the age? Is it, what are your opinions on that? There's no right or wrong for this, of course.
Marjorie Tong (42:11)
Yeah, definitely. I think COVID was such a turning point for so many people in so many different ways. And I think it kind of set up this natural time to really just everything was changing, everything. And everyone was looking at the world differently. And it just seemed like a natural time to be like, you know what? Life is short.
change is inevitable. And so it was a natural time, I think, for a lot of us to wake up and finally dive into these, childhood desires of ours or really who we are and do what we really wanna do.
Erica Alshuler (42:53)
Yeah, time for reflection and a time to your earlier point, it removed a roadblock. It removed a physical roadblock of maybe I'm not commuting and now I have some extra time to explore this idea that's been in the back of my mind or that mental roadblock of change is so scary. Well, everything just got flipped upside down. So is it so scary anymore?
Marjorie Tong (43:12)
But also it was an impetus, like Chai Ming, the grocery store realization about our food chain, so that was COVID-induced. Me, it was COVID-induced because all of a sudden I've got this EMF sensitivity. If I had gone on to design an apparel business a decade ago, it never would have had the purpose it has now. It would have just been another apparel brand. I definitely think COVID was a huge contributor.
Erica Alshuler (43:16)
Yeah!
Marjorie Tong (43:38)
And age and financial security, of course, have given us the privilege to be able to do that with a lot less risk. I think there's a large number of people who have been willing to take that risk since COVID.
Chia-Ming Ro (43:52)
I do think piggybacking off of everything Marjorie said I agree with, our kids are also a little bit older where we can hand them off and be okay not worrying about did they eat, did they have a change of clothes, are they missing us too much, things like that. It's like, okay, you're good. I can do meat. Yes. A portion of it, we can breathe. I feel like I can breathe a little bit more.
Erica Alshuler (44:12)
of the mental load is actually separatable. Yeah.
Marjorie Tong (44:16)
Yeah.
Chia-Ming Ro (44:21)
my younger one turns nine. But then my husband had to be the asshole. He goes last night and he says, well, you know, he's halfway to 18. Right, and then he goes, and then my older one's two years older, and I was like, but that means there's only seven years left with the other one. I was just like, come on. And so that, I think,
Erica Alshuler (44:32)
Gross, don't, nope, not okay.
Chia-Ming Ro (44:46)
Yes, COVID was a huge impetus, but then I think because we were corporate moms for so long, we missed so many years. I don't know why I'm getting emotional. We only have so much time with our babies. And mine are as big as me now, so it's not even, like they're not little, they're not like babies anymore, they're like young men. But...
Marjorie Tong (44:48)
Thanks for watching!
Aw!
Erica Alshuler (44:56)
Nooo
Babies.
Marjorie Tong (45:07)
No, no, no.
Chia-Ming Ro (45:12)
You know, I think COVID allowed me to pause and be like, it's not about the money, right? Because I saw, my job is in finance. So I could see that if I quit, I can make the same amount of money the first year that I had as my salary, but then I could be flexible and be there. I pick up my kids every day. I get to be at all their baseball games. You know, those are the things that you can't put a price tag on. So.
as hard as entrepreneurship is, because I know this is like, oh yeah, you should quit your corporate job, you can do it. You have to really have a purpose and believe that it fits in your lifestyle, that I want the flexibility to change my day around. But it comes at a cost, it is not easy. But if you know these things ahead of time, then there's so much there and it's so rich. And one little...
Erica Alshuler (45:46)
Yeah
Chia-Ming Ro (46:09)
Other thing I would add to it is, you know, 20 years ago, social media was not what it was today. Like it is a powerhouse in ability to launch businesses. Like for me specifically, gardening, that's how a lot of my clients have found me is through social media because it's the whole coin to like, know and trust, right? Even on this podcast, they can hear Marjorie and I and you talking about
who we are and get to know who we are at the core. That we're not just another designer, another podcaster, you can actually know our values and hear it in our voices what we really truly. Exactly, and I really think people are hungry for that now, especially after COVID made everyone pause. If they're going to invest a dollar, they wanna see who they're investing with.
Erica Alshuler (46:48)
instead of a brand shouting at you. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
I love that connection. And I love that you're feeling so emotional about all this because this is, I mean, this is, I know. I mean, hey, we are owning it on this. And, it also made me feel guilty, which is not abnormal, but it made me think that my experience was almost the opposite, where I in COVID quit my job to take a break.
Marjorie Tong (47:06)
Oh my gosh.
Chia-Ming Ro (47:08)
You're making me cry.
Erica Alshuler (47:26)
because things had reached a kind of boiling point that had started far before COVID. I mean, you mentioned that too Marjorie, but just a stress of the M&A and then the new company. But then leading through COVID was kind of like the, okay, official burnout. People talked a lot about burnout then. I think we understand it a lot better now and what resilience looks like and how we fill back up our tanks. But I was taking a break and I realized, even with that break, I wasn't choosing to
be that present parent all the time. And I went through a lot of mixed emotions about that, about, well, what do I want? And what does this mean for me as a parent? And oh, am I a terrible parent if I don't want to now be with my kids all the time? And went through a bunch of guilt about that, but then realized, in order to attain the balance that makes me a better parent and makes me feel satisfied so that I can bring my
happier, more present, more fulfilled self to my kids, I need to do something more than laundry, and I need to do something more than dishes. And so I had just completely did the opposite, which I never wanted to do when I was a mom, but I also remind myself all the time, if I was staring at a day of work in my old life,
Marjorie Tong (48:28)
All right.
Thank you.
Erica Alshuler (48:36)
and you told me all I had to do today was make some appointments and fold laundry, I'd be like, halleluiah, that sounds so delightfully mundane and simple. So I have to remind myself that all the time when I'm sick of doing that, that would have sounded so divine. but I got to do kind of both sides of the pendulum with a little bit of whiplash, but it leads to finding balance putting your own oxygen mask on.
so that you can be there for the others. And it doesn't have to be children, the people in your life, your friends, your husbands, your wives, whatever that is.
Chia-Ming Ro (49:07)
And I think Erica, you just touched upon what I was also trying to say, but not as well as you did, is it's choice. Right. That's what we're going for. Like, let me clarify. I don't want to be with my kids all day. I love them and they make me cry thinking about they're leaving me soon, but I don't love them all day. I want to go work, right. Because I enjoy my work. But I also.
Erica Alshuler (49:20)
Really good point.
Marjorie Tong (49:21)
Oh
Erica Alshuler (49:29)
Hehehehe
Marjorie Tong (49:31)
Thank you.
Erica Alshuler (49:35)
It's like when you go on a vacation and you look at photos of your kids and you're like, I was just trying to get away. What am I doing?
Chia-Ming Ro (49:41)
Yes, yes, you want the choice to, okay, today is going to be all about work. But I know that like today's my son's birthday. So in the afternoon, I can take off because I'm the boss. My boss is very good with things like that. Right. And so these are the things that it's not an uncomfortable conversation at work. Asking someone, Oh, can I take the afternoon off because it's my son's birthday.
Erica Alshuler (49:54)
Mm-hmm. Hehehehe.
Chia-Ming Ro (50:09)
Some bosses are cool, some are not, or it's just really like you start asking these things. So I think COVID really allowed the pause to reevaluate what we care about. And also, and learning also who we are now, before kids, after kids, like I think this past year I've been trying to dig around like, what do I even like? I don't know. Like,
Marjorie Tong (50:21)
Yeah.
Erica Alshuler (50:22)
and we care about choice.
Chia-Ming Ro (50:38)
It's really hard.
Erica Alshuler (50:40)
Yes, we lose ourselves.
Chia-Ming Ro (50:43)
Yes.
Erica Alshuler (50:44)
I guess with that, there's no perfect way to conclude this, deep, amazing, fluid, tangential conversation that we've been on. And I thank you both so much for joining me. It went just as swimmingly as I thought it would because you guys are intelligent and articulate and thoughtful and funny.