2% Dooley Podcast - Fery Kaszoni, James Dooley, Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR and Karl Hudson in Poland

This episode of the James Dooley Podcast brings together Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR, James Dooley, Karl Hudson, and Fery Kaszoni for a candid conversation about business decisions, personal sacrifice, and what genuinely defines success in life. Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR challenges James Dooley to reveal his three worst business decisions, exploring how mistakes expose an entrepreneur’s real relationship with time, risk, and regret. James Dooley explains why wasted time is more painful than lost money, arguing that distractions drain energy from family life and core ventures in ways money never can. Karl Hudson reflects on a tense January disagreement, showing how honest conflict and firm boundaries are essential for maintaining long-term partnerships rather than destroying them. Fery Kaszoni shares his journey from painting cars to leading digital PR campaigns, highlighting how mastery is built through repetition, craft, and pride in doing small tasks well over many years. Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR recounts selling lemons on the street and serving in the Turkish army, explaining how early hardship, pressure, and responsibility forged the resilience behind later SEO and business success.  Together, they discuss the importance of saying no, protecting focus, and limiting access, warning that people-pleasing and constant yes decisions quietly damage both businesses and families. James Dooley and Karl Hudson explain why ringfencing time with their children matters more than chasing extra revenue, while Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR and Fery Kaszoni close by reflecting on why true happiness comes from helping others succeed, sharing knowledge, and building community—because meaning and progress outlast any single financial goal.

Creators and Guests

Host

James Dooley

James Dooley is a UK entrepreneur.

What is James Dooley Podcast?

James Dooley is a Manchester-based entrepreneur, investor, and SEO strategist. James Dooley founded FatRank and PromoSEO, two UK performance marketing agencies that deliver no-win-no-fee lead generation and digital growth systems for ambitious businesses. James Dooley positions himself as an Investorpreneur who invests in UK companies with high growth potential because he believes lead generation is the root of all business success.

The James Dooley Podcast explores the mindset, methods, and mechanics of modern entrepreneurship. James Dooley interviews leading marketers, founders, and innovators to reveal the strategies driving online dominance and business scalability. Each episode unpacks the reality of building a business without mentorship, showing how systems, data, and lead flow replace luck and guesswork.

James Dooley shares hard-earned lessons from scaling digital assets and managing SEO teams across more than 650 industries. James Dooley teaches how to convert leads into long-term revenue through brand positioning, technical SEO, and automation. James Dooley built his career on rank and rent, digital real estate, and performance-based marketing because these models align incentive with outcome.

After turning down dozens of podcast invitations, James Dooley now embraces the platform to share his insights on investorpreneurship, lead generation, AI-driven marketing, and reputation management. James Dooley frequently collaborates with elite entrepreneurs to discuss frameworks for scaling businesses, building authority, and mastering search.

James Dooley is also an expert in online reputation management (ORM), having built and rehabilitated corporate brands across the UK. His approach combines SEO precision, brand engineering, and social proof loops to influence both Google’s Knowledge Graph and public perception.

To feature James Dooley on your podcast or event, connect via social media. James Dooley regularly joins business panels and networking sessions to discuss entrepreneurship, brand growth, and the evolving future of SEO.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
And welcome everyone. This is the second episode of the Two Person Dooley and I guess we will find another name for the second episode. While we are in that we will again talk about the business mindset and we also have an awesome guest together with us, Fery, and you all know him from all the creative and great content as well. Once you see one of the content you cannot forget it anyway. I can tell. I will be asking some questions to the middle. By starting, you mainly, could you tell me, James, what are the three worst decisions that you have given in the business world that you regret for. Three worst decisions.

James Dooley:
So one is not joining my workshop. Yeah today I did not join Koray’s workshop. I need to say that Koray, prior to this, was so annoyed. So that is definitely my number one. Yeah I think the other two I need to make certain that I am talking both of them with regards to time management. Because I am fine wasting money in an investment or a venture because that is just life. Not every single kind of venture that you do works. But when I am wasting time it is not coming back. It is not coming back. So from that point of view I have done quite a lot of training courses and I have followed the training courses for many years and then I realised that the training courses are just not even out of date, they just never worked when I look back at it. So that is one massive thing there. And then not early enough adapting to doing the masterminds. The masterminds and the meetups and actually meeting with so many, now what I class as being friends and family, like yourself. I fully enjoy coming, doing these meetups now that we can share and experience stuff together. I have always been “your network is your net worth”, I have always been that. But I used to just attend the conferences. I am talking like eight, nine years ago, and never bolt on and grab the people that I really respected and pull them to one side and say let’s get in a room together and let’s have a good time. It is important for us to do this. Yeah so I would say that.

James Dooley:
What is yours though, Karl.

Karl Hudson:
Probably similar. So obviously I have been in SEO for a very long time. One of my biggest regrets is after going to, I originally met James Dooley at a mastermind, but it was when I was like 20, 21, so eight years ago. So 2016 I guess. Charles invited.

James Dooley:
Yeah Charles invited.

Karl Hudson:
And I am like, oh my God, how much more experienced and better off would I have been in business networking at a younger age when SEO was easier. SEO was much easier way back then.

James Dooley:
Yeah that is it. So basically what he is telling you is when he met James Dooley it changed his life and then now, all downhill from there. That is a little snippet. Now and yours, Fery.

Fery Kaszoni:
I think mine was also not doing something. It is not having the courage to start a real career in tech because I was, you know, painting cars for many years and it took me too long to actually quit my job and start the business. So I dragged it out too much when I could have, let’s say, done it in 2014 or 2013. It took me until 2017. I could even do it earlier but I did not have the courage or belief.

James Dooley:
Was that like a confidence.

Fery Kaszoni:
Yeah it was confidence. I also do not know, how old are you by the way.

James Dooley:
I am 40. 40 this year.

Fery Kaszoni:
Really.

James Dooley:
Yeah I am still 39.

Fery Kaszoni:
So you see actually 30 to 40.

James Dooley:
Yeah I know.

Fery Kaszoni:
I take lots of supplements and I only watch comedy movies as well so I am not sad. So it helps.

James Dooley:
I cannot imagine you sad.

Fery Kaszoni:
Actually a great feature. But you know, behind the cameras maybe.

James Dooley:
Yes.

Fery Kaszoni:
Behind the camera I cry. Yeah, yeah sometimes. I am sad but you know not like that sad sad. I think I treat depression with, I treat the sadness with setting up a big goal and then going for it. It just makes you forget that you are sad. When you are on fire to do something the world does not exist.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
I also always feel like maybe the age, when you get older, your brain starts to change chemically and that is why for instance in 20s the things that I could not understand are very much easier to understand in 30. Same like 40s too. So yeah it is simple. But I am in my 30s. For me to know this.

James Dooley:
I cannot imagine you are 30s.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
I came to many parties with you. I am not even sure whether everyone survived from your parties to be honest. Some of them might be. We lose years. We lose years of our life.

James Dooley:
Yeah definitely.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
But my biggest failures, I believe the wrong decisions. One of them might be leaving the casino after the Medic update. Actually I could stay and continue there as much as possible. Second one will be, I am too much focused on sharing information rather than focusing on business. I always wanted to change the industry. It was like an obsession. Still I have it a little bit but I am trying to stay away from that. The third one would be, I create too much personal attachment to the people. It affects my decision and judgement and that is why I am not “no” man. I always say yes. Since I see people like friends I would like to be able to prioritise my own family first actually. Then I would like to do these extra favours if I have time.

James Dooley:
So when you say “to the people” is it to clients or is it to employees or to which people.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
That is one of the things because in the business, because since I came from the casino niche, when we have the company that we have everyone was very close to each other. I had that habit when I come to the other industries too and I thought that the same dynamics would work there too. It works well for some people, like minority I can tell, like Karl, James Dooley. I am very easy and comfortable with them. That is why you should come to the workshop, not better. But when it comes to some other angles I believe I should be able to understand that I am a brand now and I cannot have that much personal relationships. Because even if I see myself as a regular guy and I behave like a regular person people get different messages from the behaviours that you give. For example, I was in Vietnam and when I smile at someone they get it with a different context. They become happy. I am also happy for that too but they exaggerate it to be honest. They feel a bit different. For instance I was eating in a burger place, we have eaten together too, and actually it was the first time that I saw Vaper from AutoBlogging basically.

James Dooley:
Oh yes.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
Yeah, yeah. He was not working with you then. He just told me that “Koray you are so humble. It is very easy to approach you.” I was thinking why should it be hard. Why it should be hard. Whenever they say that you are humble I do not get what they mean. But I guess they mean they are not able to approach maybe someone else that easily. So it makes a really good amount of friends but at the same time it sometimes becomes harder to manage the time because you need to answer. But when you do not answer they also get gutted.

James Dooley:
I think not only that as well. Speaking on behalf of Koray, he has got 15,000 students that adore him for the information he has shared. When they attend these events, like Rob and Luke got up on stage and said go and speak to the people that you want to meet. When you are meeting new people and you are trying to remember their names and trying to remember what they do, it can be so, like your brain is expanding. That is why sometimes when we go and see Koray at the end of the night you can just see he is drained. He is not Koray, he is drain. Because he has had 100, 150 people coming to him nonstop and he is trying to be that nice person.

Fery Kaszoni:
And he gets upset over not going to workshops.

James Dooley:
So yeah it is true. It is overwhelming. It can be very tiring.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
I always actually carry a Novalgin with me because I always, during the conference, I take. Like yesterday I have taken two Novalgin for instance. It is an anti migraine pill. I always take it. Today I have drunk maybe five or six double espresso to be able to stay energetic and still I have all the caffeine. Tomorrow too it will be same. So that part is really hard. I like to have that connection because I help many people from let’s say Mauritius Island to the people in Vietnam. I always meet with them, ask about their family and I love being able to help them. But when it comes to spending time always together, to me my wife is not happy about that situation and that is why I feel like after moving out to the Kadash I should have more private life.

James Dooley:
So you have to detach yourself a little bit.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
Definitely. But when you start to do that people get resentment I think. Because when you are too close to them and when you start to put some distance they get a wrong message. But I would also then say that is one of the little things that you have that we have chatted about, I think in the last one as well. You let people hurt your feelings too much.

Karl Hudson:
I think an easy way of looking at it, right. If you had a business that was just in a mastermind, I remember, and there was someone in there that says all 50 members of staff go to him. I am like, you cannot do that. But why cannot you do that. Because maximum, generally, like managers would say, the maximum you can generally deal with is up to maybe 10. The probably range is six to eight middle managers that you want to deal with. But why cannot you, because it is so time consuming and exhausting. You have almost got to start, when you go into these, almost prioritising some people. If you are saying I really want to, whether it is work and it is a certain client that you want to speak to and I am not going to be pulled away from being able to speak to some of the people that I need to speak to or want to speak to. You have almost got to have that priority in place. You cannot deal with, no disrespect to let us say the cleaners, but the cleaners need to speak to head of cleaning or whatever. Or the virtual assistants that are building links or doing outreach. You cannot speak to all of those. You can only deal with your head of backlink department and stuff like that. So almost like you would run a business, there are times you have got to prioritise. Yes it means that you are going to upset some people because you do not have the time to say “Not a problem, I will spend 10 minutes with every single person.” But there is one thing that we are all lacking and that is time. You have got to start prioritising and getting better at time management.

James Dooley:
It is also, you are absolutely right. That is why actually in Saigon and here too in Zop I just say that actually I just want to be retired from the stages, but I want to put our new thought leaders in the “Hest Kas” community to the stage. I want to, because they are new faces and at the same time when they are on stage I feel like I am on stage as well.

Karl Hudson:
You are proud of them. It is almost like they are part of your little family.

James Dooley:
Definitely. In workshop too I just say it actually, go and meet with these guys, they already know these things. They already published their own success with that. Also I suggest you as well in similar way so that they can bother you.

Karl Hudson:
You suggested us. I would not, I would not, because I was not invited to the workshop.

James Dooley:
You do not need an invitation.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
But anyway I want to flip this round. Forget the weaknesses. Forget the failures. Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR I want to ask you, you are the first one. Successes. What makes you happy and what makes you very proud of and where you have been successful.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
I believe that usually this PR moment comes when people send their stories or case studies. Mainly, maybe I said it earlier too, but for instance I saved a cat and that cat has been adopted by a man. I saved a cat from the street. He was about to die and someone saved it. Then the person who adopted the cat told me that he started SEO during 2020 thanks to my case studies. He was able to protect his family during the Covid thanks to the case studies as well. He wanted to just pay that favour back by saving the cat. These kind of personal stories help me to keep going actually rather than the money or other things. Because you will make money anyway. When it comes to having these personal attachments it is much more important. For instance Jack Long from Vietnam. He created a really successful local SEO agency in the car detailing niche. He is using our framework and he also saved his family from a hard situation thanks to that. We were eating Japanese pizza in Vietnam together and it was a proud moment for me. It is better than just money. For instance I never forget during one of my birthdays one SEO from Bangladesh, he sent his kids pictures, two kids, they were reading my case studies and he was telling that he was able to sustain his family again thanks to case studies. When you see these things you start to not care about the negativity and you start to just feel that someone needs it and you try to do that. These are the moments that you feel fulfilled and you are happy. This will be the first thing. The second thing is that I believe I created some new concepts and bring some new angles and it also makes me a bit proud of that. Because it takes courage to be able to show another way. It shifts a little bit, shifts the industry, shifts the status quo. But one major thing there is when I brought the semantics to the mainstream, for instance, I also did some things that I did not tell earlier. But since I get the attention many people try to be my client, but I always ask them for instance who you are taking consultancy from right now. If they give me another consultant name or agency, for instance, I never accept that client and send them back to that agency. Because I do not want to take or harm anyone. Another thing is that I always try to help other people too. For instance that is why I started to actually lately promote the link building as well for instance. Because some link building agencies, they told me that because of me they have to always explain things. I start to tell that look, the links are also always fundamental for the SEO and it helps them to actually tell people, look, Koray also says that too, just continue with that. So I did not compete with people in an aggressive way. I did not compete at all. I just explained and I tried to help everyone. So that personal trait also makes me happy to have. Mainly these two actually for SEO at least. And one more thing. I lost everything during the Medic updates and I was able to come back financially as well. So it maybe happened accidentally but it happened, so it also makes me proud as well.

Fery Kaszoni:
I think what makes me proud is again the fact that I have grown my follower base based on value that I share with case studies and even entertainment. I think entertainment and case studies and having those messages that you probably also have lots of them, people messaging you saying thank you, you know, thank you Fery for that specific case. I have done the same thing and I got links in these publications or I have helped my clients or I set up my agency now and I am doing digital PR as well. It is just amazing. Just so proud. Such a proud moment when others are flourishing and thriving based on what you did. You did something and somebody else is better off. Nothing can pay that thing. Also my happiness comes from achievement. I am very, you know, I am depressed if I am not achieving something. So I must keep going. I must keep doing things in order to be happy. I would be depressed if I had no mission. I know it may sound bad and it is not good because of course I am proud of the family, the kids and my wife and everything, but that would not be a complete satisfaction for me.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
Seneca also says the same for you always in the books at least. He is not alive anymore but he always says that if the human brain does not chase a goal or duty it will be in a miserable state. The brain always should be busy with exploring, achieving and doing something. I think many people who are sad in life, maybe, I mean I know there is lots of depression, I agree with that, but the way I treat sadness sometimes, because we are laughing, like “Oh I am crying after the videos”, which is not quite accurate but it sometimes is. Sometimes we are sad, sometimes you know, I know you argue with your wife or you have something that you do not like and you are sad. But then if you challenge your brain with something you forget about that and things get resolved by themselves. So I think people who are sad sometimes in life, if we would find a mission, I think that is the first step that I would say. That is where my happiness is, in achieving things.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
And for you.

Karl Hudson:
So mine is, it is an awkward one this, because my partner, as you are about to marry, so I will choose my answer. She often jokes “The Bank of Hudson”. This is because I come from quite a, you know, not unsuccessful background, but parents were working class, made a bit of a thing for themselves. On occasion they might struggle and need a little bit of help. Luckily I learn SEO and can help them on that side. So business ventures I can help them rank and earn money that way. But then sometimes they might need money so then I help by giving them money as well. To me that helps, it ticks a box. I can help family and then also going out with friends and not really worrying about bills and things like that. Obviously James Dooley usually picks up the bill, that is why I do not worry. That is before he got in, I knew it was coming, I knew it was coming, I could feel it. But that is probably the motivation for me to be fair, helping family and friends. Hopefully I think one of the unique points of when, originally when I went to James Dooley’s very first mastermind was, I think it was actually James Dooley who said it in, if you had a boat it is better you all having a boat rather than one person on a boat and you can all go out and party together type thing. That is kind of the philosophy.

Fery Kaszoni:
I can see both of you are like kind of family driven and a lot community.

James Dooley:
You know what is pretty crazy about it. We, and I do not mean this in an arrogant way, we are four successful people in the SEO industry and we have all not come from any sort of rich background. We have all had to work hard. We all strive to improve and grow and innovate and have that mission that no matter where we are at we want to go again. We all, no one has turned around and mentioned a monetary value that we have got to. Money is the byproduct. It is about the journey, actually elevating others. Do you know what, that should resonate, surely I am hoping must resonate with some people that are at the start of their journey to realise that actually it is all about giving value and when you give value money will come. If your end goal is to earn money that is fine if that is what your mission is, but to get there, the more successful people provide so much value you need to develop something more than just. And just actually understand and actually rub off on people and when you meet a lot of people that are successful they all share the same traits.

Karl Hudson:
Well following on from that, some of the most depressed people I have ever met were multi multimillionaires who sold the business and their goal was money. That was it. They set an end goal, they reached the end goal and it is like what now. That is it. You should not do that.

James Dooley:
The saddest life I can imagine with regards to happiness and success for myself is, I have to say first, would be my kids, my friends and my family. Even this. I class you guys as being family, do you know what I mean. I do not say that lightly. Genuinely, when we came down to your office and when we did the Vietnam and there was a sentence in there saying I will always remember this podcast in Vietnam and I think you said in 10 years’ time I will always remember this podcast. It is so true, so will I. Because you are sharing times and memories with people and this is what it is about. I think it is this meet up and doing things. I might take one or two little bits from you of information and like “Oh I need to start elevating one or two of my staff like what you are doing” or “They need to improve from something”. I might take something from Karl even though I deal with Karl on a day to day basis. When you are out of the normal day to day running of the business you just pick little things up where you go “Oh I did not realise that, oh maybe we should do this”. It is the same with you. It is these times that it is not the end goal, it is the journey of getting there. It is the climbing the mountain that is the fun bit. So this now here is what makes me happy. This is what drives me to want to achieve more success. Do I do it for myself. Absolutely not. If you ask me what my biggest success is, I remember my mum about 10 years ago creating a bucket list. She created 20 things in a bucket list and I think she has done something like 14 things in that bucket list and I have helped her do all them. I have pushed her to it because there are 20 things in a bucket list and it was like you are never going to do those things unless I make you do it. Sometimes I would say to her right we are going to do that next month. “Oh no we cannot.” Then she goes and does it and she is like “Wow”. She loves it, but at the time she is always like “No I am too busy I cannot.” It is excuses. It is excuses for doing it and it is that procrastination almost like what people have in work, but it is the procrastination of “There is my bucket list, it will only be ticked off never”. Well what are we going to do next week to tick one of them off or next month to tick one of them off. Little things like that, sometimes when you are chasing something it is not just, like I said, money or business. It could be chasing somebody, helping others to elevate them to reach their goals. It might just be a mini goal of “I have never been to New York”, which was one of my mum’s. “I really want to go to New York.” Right we are going to make that happen, we are going to go. One of them was a random one on New Year’s Eve. “I want to be stood at 11:59 for New Year’s Eve in the sea.” That is a random one. We went to Dubai and 11:59 we stood in the sea and all the fireworks went off and everything and she was crying and she loved it and that was one of her. It was not one of mine, I enjoyed it, but to see that and see that happiness it was a great satisfaction for me.

James Dooley:
So with regards to success and happiness sometimes it is weird how every single one of you mentioned how somebody else’s happiness made you happy. That must then, when you start realising it, within the subconscious mind. It was only when you three started talking about it and then I sat back a little bit and I was like “Why”. This must be a trait for successful business people, not just business people but happy people in life. What are these people that are sad or depressed doing to make other people happy. Are they just sat there on the couch watching TV moaning and watching the news. What are they doing to help others. Because when they help others they probably will not be sad and depressed. Such a good satisfaction.

James Dooley:
So he has just, I have always understood like try to help others out, but when you said that then it was like actually that is a bit of.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
I guess we can frame it like, when people focus on just making money I believe it makes some depressive because they are always racing against time with the numbers. I believe that process ends up making less money. If you just focus on creating something new and helping people money eventually comes. It is like money is the side effect of hard work and solid work.

Karl Hudson:
It is probably a little bit of a two edged sword this though. Because then probably all four of us have the same issue of, we also always say yes to people. That is the two edged sword. You say yes a lot and it is like oh God I probably should not have said yes but I have said it now, I am helping.

Fery Kaszoni:
The balance is key. Finding the balance. But also when you start to say no and focus on the monetisation, I believe at least a person always should be doing maybe just meditation to make himself remember what was the real goal or the first goal in the first place. Because for instance when I see you and talk to you I always feel like it is worth to come here. But if I just focus on the business side it is not worth to come to an SEO conference for the business.

Fery Kaszoni:
Definitely not for business. If you go to an SEO conference to make money or get leads that is not the right place to be. But when you come here for helping people, explaining these things and also creating a new movement over the effect and having memories together, I believe it is worth for nearly everything. It also makes me happier when I do SEO because I always remember people when I do it. It gives you more drive. Money cannot motivate you just for enduring all these big processes to be honest. It is too much work just for money. You need some personal attachments there as well. But also I must tell that if you just focus on the attachments I believe some people will exploit you and I guess it is what you mean there when you try to say no. Sometimes I believe people do not realise that they do exploit you as well because they do not realise it since you do not tell them explicitly. I believe it requires some maybe implicit communication skills. Maybe you do not tell it explicitly but you just annotate it, maybe, maybe some different things.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
What do you think about it. To be able to say no and focus on your own business goals would you use some communication skills to imply it or to annotate it. Which scenario would you think that you would want to say no but you did say yes.

James Dooley:
So scenario, it is a better form. We have a lot. Let’s get, when we spoke, we spoke in Saigon on stage. So many people came over to us and asked us the question to say why did you argue in January. That was like, what was the argument that was happening in January. We are great. January this year, we are great friends and we are great business partners, right. But in January this year it was me that was like asking Karl lots of questions to say why have we said. Now do not get me wrong, I am arguing with Karl and blaming Karl and then when Karl then actually gave me a little piece of my own medicine, it was like oh.

Karl Hudson:
The problem is I am a little bit more obviously introverted. So I have to take what he says onto the shoulders and then it takes a little time to process and then I will say it back.

James Dooley:
So I am like, why have you said yes to all. I said yes and I was then passing it to you for you to.

Karl Hudson:
And choose the best.

James Dooley:
To choose the best five. Because we get certain people coming over like “Oh here is an investment opportunity, the business is worth a million pounds but if you give us 100,000 we will give you 40 percent of the business.” So it is an unbelievable deal. Pass it through, pass it through, pass it through. What can we deal with here. Then Karl goes “That is a good deal, that is a good deal, that is a good deal.” So we just yes to everything. But then what ends up happening is yes we can run it successfully from a business standpoint but am I being successful in the gym and working out in my health. Am I being a successful dad. Are you being a successful husband. Then you start to weigh up, no we are doing too much. At that point you need to take a step back. So I was blaming Karl. The truth of the matter is it was just as much my fault as it was Karl’s. When Karl then said it back I was like oh yeah. But the good thing is we are able to have that chat and that conversation, bang bang, and be like “Well what is it, is it okay, yeah I am now going to pre-vet before I give it to you.”

Karl Hudson:
You are ready to compromise as well, like your truth, because everyone, when you argue everyone of course.

James Dooley:
You need to. If you do not and you have got like two positives in a battery it does not work. You need to both be able to, if it is an elastic band and things are going bad, you have got to be able to understand “Okay I am now stretching his elastic band, I need to stop stretching it so much”, and he needs to understand where my elastic band will snap. You have got to push each other but understand each other’s boundaries and respect each other’s boundaries as well. Because I know Karl loves going and doing his plunge pool in the morning. I know he loves taking the dog for a walk. I know he wants to have a healthy breakfast. I know that. That is why I call you a princess. Then he wants to go to the gym in the afternoon. I respect all of that. Do not ever stop doing that. Now if he has got too much work and then he cannot do that, that is a problem. Not for him not to do what he really enjoys and loves. That is a problem within the business that we need to sort out. He needs to respect that my time when I come home from work after, from 3:00 till 7:00 is my kids. I am going out for a bike ride. Do not ring me unless the office has burnt down. Do not ring me between 3 and 7. If you ring, it better be something serious.

Karl Hudson:
Yes.

James Dooley:
I will be really annoyed. I never really get a call between because I have that time with my kids and it is my dad time and I love it.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
It is actually my next question too. So how do you balance being a good father and being a good businessman. How do you prioritise it and how does it affect the business. What is your method or suggestion.

Karl Hudson:
I would say from the outside looking in to James Dooley’s situation is he kind of, when he is at home he does as much as he can for the kids and he is always, I think 3:00 you can almost count, always at the park. You will take the kids or take the kids out, like experiences.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
This is a great point. Because whenever I talk about James Dooley in a good way I never talk about the only mistake, not coming to workshop, nothing else. So whenever I actually explain James Dooley and his talents, skills, advantages as well, and I also see you as a mentor for me for the business angle as well. Someone always tells that he is a party monster. So this is the only thing that you see literally. You explain lots of things and you educate us actually for the business in a very good way. But always they see a party animal, party monster.

James Dooley:
That has gone. To be fair they still remember. He back doors it more than anyone. Last night everyone partying, I was in bed 10:00.

Karl Hudson:
I was surprised. I was like what are you doing here. Why are you going up. This is a true story. The last Chiang Mai, we had quite a few people came out to come party with the boys. Every night he was like “Oh is he going to party tonight”. Like no no we are going back. “Are you going to party tonight”. No no we are going back. Well on the Friday it was the way but we said Friday is the party. It was like 10:00 p.m. and he was like “The boys are on, the boys are on”.

James Dooley:
I remember that. Jason Cappuzzi. Jason, he actually told me that “Okay James Dooley is on” and I did not understand what he meant. Five minutes later Karl Hudson was holding Jason and also Jason and also James Dooley was actually pulling Veka from the mouth of Jason. I was running away. So the boys were having fun.

James Dooley:
Yeah definitely. But the main thing there is also, it is actually just, that is why I call it Two Person Dooley. It is one of the names. I found the name there. If you take that two good person it is good enough for you, but a third person might kill you. In this case actually you are a family person for 98 percent of the times. It does not match with the party kind of character. Since people do not see that side of James Dooley and they just remember the “Oh he drinks, blah blah blah” type of things. When I explain that he is actually a great person for business etc they know it but they always remember the other side and it is one of the things.

James Dooley:
I think it is mainly because, like in my wedding speech I speak about, life is all about balancing the plates of what you can. Whether that is family, friends, making certain you are going out and having experiences. Now I am all about being outside in nature. Get yourself outside, stop staring at a screen and an iPad and watching TV. Go and do. This is what Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR was trying to say. Normally 3:00 I am never inside watching a film with the kids. I am outside. I am on the bike ride. It is raining, there is no such thing as bad weather, just inappropriate clothing. That is what I say. But it is raining, we put some waterproofs on, get out, get them muddy. I used to play in the mud and eat a bit of mud, that is fine, eat some worms. Get yourself out there. It is all about spinning the plates. The truth of the matter is, in my opinion, if one of those plates that you are spinning smashes then something is going wrong. Whether that is family, friends, business, health or happiness in going out and having the experiences and stuff. What has happened is, prior to me having kids I had a lot more time and that time was spent more going to the gym and more partying. But now I am trying to be the best dad I can be, I have now had to, I cannot spin the partying plate as much. I still love going out and having a good time with friends so I do not do it as much. But when I do do it I go. Like Jason Caruso, he says I am on. But I am normally on or off because I cannot be one of them that is going to have a few drinks. Because then I get really excited. I am like right I am all in. I am either all in or all out and I have got to either back door it or I am going to be out till 4:00 in the morning.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
We come together rarely. When we are together we should do something unique and make it intense. Also all the speeches are done and we help people and then we also want to do something different to ease the stress and let it go. So I am just like, you know, I am probably going to be on too.

Karl Hudson:
There was a funny situation. So we all went to, what was it, Palma, and James Dooley was not in the mood that night. You could just tell he was a bit flat. So then Adam or her went “Look, get that shot girl to come over”. She had like 30 shots. Right we will have all 30, he has to drink them all. Then by about shot 10 you can see he is starting to cheer up a little bit and then he is getting happier and happier. Then all of a sudden that is it, he is on.

James Dooley:
It is like you turned a switch. Something tipped over.

Karl Hudson:
Yeah exactly.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
But Fery, how do you manage kids and family balance. Did you, for instance, did you miss any programme of your kids because of the business. Did you regret about it.

Fery Kaszoni:
Not like the important ones. If it is a very important programme like the girls are going to stage for celebration of Christmas and they do acting or they are in a band, in a school band, I never usually miss those. Sometimes they have ice skating on a Monday evening so usually I take them to ice skating. But if it is something, if I have something very important I do skip that sometimes. Or picking them up from piano. But I have not figured out, I have not prioritised it enough, that is kind of the right word, spending even more time with the kids. I think I need to work on that.

James Dooley:
I would say you have got to be careful. From our conversations I thought the way you are doing it is brilliant. What you cannot do, what people need to understand as well is if you start spending more time being what you would class as being, let us say, a better dad, your business is not going to be as good. So you have got to kind of weigh it up. What I absolutely loved and adored of what you said was, it is half term, every half term or six weeks you are going away on holiday. So the kids then can know, okay, Dad is in work mode Monday to Friday. Sundays you do not touch anything all day. Sometimes what I would say is there are certain dads, no disrespect to these people, but there are certain dads that might be present more with the kids, might see the kids more, but they are not really present. The kids are sat in the corner watching their iPads and they are not even communicating and talking. When I get to see my kids I am like, we are going doing something, we are going out, we are going experiencing. That is what you are like with regards to, right, it is half term, we are going out, we are going on a holiday. If it is half term and six weeks, travel around Europe or around the world. That is our.

James Dooley:
I think everyone always wishes, and this is what we are always like, time. Everyone wishes “Oh I wish I could put more time in”. For me at the moment it is like I wish I could put more time in being able to go to the gym. I just do not feel I have time to do my daddy stuff, do the work stuff, see family, see friends and go to the gym as much as I would like. I am rushing, I am rushing around doing stuff, like “Well I need to be home for 3:00”. So I wish I could do that. We are always going to wish we could improve on time management. You can only do so much.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
I believe there are also some good sides that come naturally too. I am not a father yet but I always try to prepare myself for that and that is why I am asking these questions, to learn from the experienced ones. A few people who are successful business people and also fathers, they told me that the kids make you way much more patient and make you also way much more calm for really stressful situations. Because you always think about the family. Since you already are being tested by new beginning humans, little humans, normally you, let us say, get angry for something, but after the kids you realise that it does not work to get angry at all.

Fery Kaszoni:
The thing is you have to develop kind of like a wall. When the kids are shouting and screaming, it is like training for business. Karl Hudson you can shout, okay, it is going to be fine. Then they chill out and then oh it is not too bad. So it is a training.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
This is why actually I mention that chemical thing. Because I believe human brain through the time, it is changing. Because I guess I cannot think like you think right now not because I am not a father yet, I am too young. I am also too young I believe. Because I believe that whenever we have a new decade in life the brain changes and that is why for instance we do not remember our own childhood. Do you remember your own childhood completely.

James Dooley:
Not at all.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
Because when you have a children or child basically, it takes time to have that empathy because we forgot how it was and we do not remember because we changed. I guess getting older makes you a more empathetic person for sure.

Fery Kaszoni:
Having a child, yeah. Having a child develops, you become a child again as a man.

James Dooley:
I think you having kids, many Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR running around would be brilliant. It would be brilliant for you because what I would say is babies and kids are so more intelligent than what meets the eye. They know how to manipulate, they know how to push their boundaries. You can have kids that are crying their eyes out and you are like “No you are not doing it, you are not doing it.” You feel so sorry and you are like, you turn around going “I just want to go and give them a hug.” The next minute when they know they are not going to get this, they turn around and stop and they are like. They know how to push your boundaries and they know how to manipulate. When you are starting realising that you would start to become a lot more conscious of your time. When someone is wasting your time you will learn to say no a lot faster. Or if you are in a business decision or whatever it is, you will learn to be “No, that is not what is happening.” Or someone is coming and trying to manipulate and use you in some way, shape or form, you will just know straight away “No, I am not having this.”

James Dooley:
If I can say no to my own kid.

Karl Hudson:
Exactly.

James Dooley:
I can say no to anyone.

Karl Hudson:
Exactly 100 percent.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
It is a very good point actually. It incentivised me as well. Father. When are you going to move in, I want to come and visit your new house in, was it not about five months ago the last time you said you were moving in.

James Dooley:
Moving in next week.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
He got back.

James Dooley:
That is one thing actually I am thinking always because whenever I come to a conference my wife always gets a little bit, of course, upset. Because whenever I do these speeches or lectures while helping the industry I always delay side. That is why I prepared these questions actually.

James Dooley:
Do you want us to rent a van. We will come across. We will lift the furniture for you. I will be remover for a week and I will come and take it. Where is it. Istanbul. Take it down to the coast.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
I believe after Estonia I am definitely going and I will be happy to, as always say, all of you, you can always visit us there. We can go to the Ephesus and I guess our first gathering, that exclusive event for maybe just 100 or something, it will be in Kusadasi I guess. It will be one of the good moments to know the area and I guess then we can work on saying no together, all together. We can list all the invitations together then we can choose this is no, this is no, this is no.

James Dooley:
I want a Turkish barber haircut. I want a Turkish shave. I want a Turkish kebab. Massage.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
You also look like Turkish, that is what.

James Dooley:
And then a Turkish bath. I want all that mud all over me and getting in this.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
Turkish bath might be really harsh. I can not lie. It is more than what we did. Yeah of course. Because a fat guy will come and they going to jump on you. They will hold your arm and stretch it. Then they rub you.

James Dooley:
Not a bad guy.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
But you cannot believe how much dead skin they are taking from you. Your colour changes. Your face, your skin colour will be so good.

James Dooley:
I have done.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
You might be losing even weight. They literally take your skin out. Like a snake you feel reborn.

James Dooley:
I am going to try it if I go there for sure.

Karl Hudson:
Really.

James Dooley:
No it hurts.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
It depends on what you ask for. If you tell that “Feel free” they will be really harsh. It is not like Thai massage or body massage.

James Dooley:
I have never done Thai massage. I have heard that is kind of also like torture.

Karl Hudson:
Yeah is it. We have experience.

James Dooley:
Yeah me and him went in one. Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR had a massage. So it was so funny. The woman started massaging and you could see she was like. Then he starts going “Ohh, ohh”. Then I am like, I start laughing and then they were laughing at us. We came out like “I need a massage”.

Fery Kaszoni:
That is crazy because the girls here, like a massage section in the hotel, and they said they do Thai massage on Friday and Saturday. I am like yeah, yeah I am going to go for it, but now I am like.

James Dooley:
You got a massage.

Fery Kaszoni:
I had three. I had three massages.

James Dooley:
Touched by an Angel.

Karl Hudson:
Touched by an Angel. That was the name.

James Dooley:
What you have to remember here Fery is the Thai massages, they are usually not trained masseurs. Whereas here they are probably trained in massage. Whereas Thai kind of feels like you are in WrestleMania. Dropping you.

Fery Kaszoni:
No way.

Karl Hudson:
Yeah, yeah we experience these things actually together thanks to the conferences. That is why it is the only good side being together and spending time together. Having these unique experiences once actually together. To be honest, for me, the main one will be my own and actually it was the inspiration. I was thinking that instead of I go every country, how about everyone comes. So you have to travel no more visas.

James Dooley:
Yeah.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
It was a selfish motivation but I need that.

James Dooley:
That is what I have said to you. Let us get to Turkey again. Let us get over there and have a good time.

James Dooley:
Anyway, next week or is it the week after, the course is opening back up.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
Yeah we are opening it again.

James Dooley:
Talk to me a little bit about that.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
It is actually funny because I did not open the gates for a year and I believe my scrapers and pirates, they have made more money than I do. They just scrape everything. They even try to sell to my wife, you know. They messaged my wife telling that “Do you want Koray’s course”. They try to.

James Dooley:
Can you do something, can you legally do something.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
No it is not worth it, not that much. But also people need money. I know that. That is not the answer. When they message me I say “No, it is crap, I do not like”. Legally we cannot do that much and also many people respect our intellectual property. They support us. We will be adding new lectures because for the last 12 months I was visiting every country preparing a new speech. I was binding every speech to the next one. I believe it is a unique thing. I did not see someone else was bonding every lecture to each other. From Estonia to Bulgaria to Hungary to Vietnam or Thailand, every country that we were in, including Poland, there was a new bonded lecture to each other, different projects with naked names. So I made them a different lecture series. We will also be adding new concepts, new recordings as well and we will be releasing them gradually and I believe that people are excited for that after one year. It will be really fun I believe.

James Dooley:
That is very good. It is like double value. So you were actually building your course but you know, it just happens that you also presented them as a conference.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
Yeah because I believe maybe even over 5,000 people in total in one year we made speech to and everyone actually has only one part of it. If you want to see the full part you should come to the course and the community. After the lectures we will be adding, or the conference speeches, we will be adding some new concepts part by part and we will also be sharing the topical map feedbacks. I guess people will like it but I try to keep them very simplistic so it might confuse some.

James Dooley:
So does this mean there is going to be over 500 bloody hours added.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
I keep them short as much as possible. One thing, when I keep it very short they ask extra questions and make it longer and when I make it longer they also tell me that “Is there a shorter version”. It is like this side.

James Dooley:
There is no win. There is no winning there.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
That is why I am also even thinking about maybe I should have a long lecture and short lecture and they can choose whichever they want. It is like the burger with different type of meats. The issue is though with the short ones is then everyone, some of it, leaves it to their own interpretation of it and then they run that way when it was that way and then it is so tough. The cohort group is so active, that cohort group, because everyone understands something but also everyone understands an angle different and then they started discussing. That is why community learning is important and that is why I try to keep things long so they can have the details. But whenever I keep it short I am sure that some people understand it differently. That is why I did not show my screen in the first version because I know that everyone will get a different meaning from it. Now in the second one this year we will be showing my screen because I know that they are prepared more, they will be understanding actually.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
Let me ask one more question to you all actually. So what was your first job. Did you like it or did anyone fire you from that job.

James Dooley:
To be honest my first job was working in a call centre on minimum wage.

Karl Hudson:
I cannot imagine him.

James Dooley:
I know, I was actually very deep accent. No one, I think, that is what annoyed people. Like some double glazing work. I would want my kids to have a job in a call centre or just dropping newspapers off and earning their own way at a young age or working in a fish market. Just doing something that they really do not like. So that then their expectation of work is down here and when it is maybe up here, the reality is there, the delta is happiness. If someone goes and gets an amazing first job coming, working for yourself four days a week. What an amazing place to work. If they go and try and get another job now. You are ruining them. Start another job, whatever they do, their expectation is here, the reality is here, the delta is unhappiness.

Fery Kaszoni:
It is our evil plan with people. Once they come in they are ruined. Their career is done. They cannot work to any other company because why would you go to five day work week and then.

James Dooley:
Yeah ruin people.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
So what about you Fery.

Fery Kaszoni:
So obviously you, you were doing a lot of spraying. So at age 16, because we did not have money, I did not go to high school or university. I had to start working so I can have money. So I was painting cars. I enjoyed it and painting is not just painting. It is like, when the car is damaged you have to do the lines, you have to use body filler and then sand it down and make the perfect lines, the perfect shapes. You have to literally feel the ripples of the body and then put body filler on, sand it down with sanding paper. So it is like an art. I loved it.

James Dooley:
Pretty crazy about, because no disrespect, it is just painting a vehicle, but the emotion that you just brought, what is needed. When he was telling me, I was the best paint sprayer and people would travel to me out of town and come to me to do it, that passion, enthusiasm is so.

Fery Kaszoni:
For every. I was looking at waitresses or waiters, I was thinking if I would be that I would be treating people like kings and queens. Even a job like a waiter, a waiter can be done at this level or it can be at this level. Like “Hi what can I do, hi how is your day, how can I help you”. Everything can be done with passion and the person doing it will enjoy it more. Anything.

Karl Hudson:
So my job, I did not last long because I quit and it was primarily because of my dad and what he said to us. So the job was stacking shelves at Tesco’s, 16 years old. I lasted one day.

James Dooley:
This is why I call you a princess.

Karl Hudson:
I went home and my dad just went “You have got no colour, you have lost all the colour on your face, your energy has gone.” He went “Something very important for you to learn now is find something you enjoy doing and then work out a way to get paid for it and then you will never have to work a day in your life.” At the time I was young but I was still doing a lot of website stuff but was not really getting much paid. I was very young. So then I went more into that.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
Nice. What about you Koray. What was your very first.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
Mine was a bit different because since I am coming from Turkish culture things are a bit different. Actually I guess my first job was selling lemons in bazaar. I had actually a kind of, I do not know the English word, like something like this, a kind of box, let us say. Imagine, it is appointment. I was putting the lemons.

James Dooley:
“Take my lemons man”.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
I was just in the bazaar and I was trying to sell it because my father is from the southern Turkey, we have lots of orange farms and we were bringing some of the lemons and I just thought that I can actually sell these things.

James Dooley:
Was it your farms or was it just lemons to put in drinks or just to have a lemon, like just eating or for food.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
Anything. You basically sell in the street. It is not like a regular. It is my own business basically. The lemons were free for me since it is coming from the family. No cost. I was just taking the lemons. I was like I guess just eight years old or something. A small kid basically just walked with lemons.

James Dooley:
What he is not saying is his dad was buying the lemons at the supermarket and every bloody day his dad was going “Where the hell has my lemons gone”.

Karl Hudson:
I used to do that. My very first job actually, this is at school. I used to get my dad to buy me like a pack of Mars bars. Get a five pack of Mars bars and I would take the full pack and like, my dad would be like “Where is all my Mars”. “Oh dad must have took them to work with him or something.” It was me. I have them in my bag and I would go and sell them for like 20p each and I am like yes, a pound. My own little cash job in the bank.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
In my job actually, thanks to that, I learned many things too. Because in the bazaar, let us say you walk and there is an old guy and he also sells lemons and he sees you as a threat since you are a small kid. He just actually looks at you in a bad way and shows the direction to go. Then I realised that actually selling in bulk by doing a discount was very much easier. I just went to the restaurants, kebab restaurants, and I have shown all the mediterranean fruits to them and they like it and I was selling all the restaurants. Then my father was asking questions like “How do you sell these things so fast” and I just told that I am selling to the kebab restaurants and I learned that actually I am selling for very cheap. My father went to the kebab restaurant and told that “This is very cheap, do not feel any shame, this is just a kid”. Then I was increasing the prices. Then I was just selling a portion here, another portion here. They were telling me that “This lemon is not that good” but it was actually like a shower, you know, like he is squeezing it and it is just dripping in huge amounts. Then he tells me “I will not pay for this” and then I say “Okay I am about to exit”, then he says “Hey stop I will pay” etc. So I learned to walk away from a deal. For a kid it was a really good thing.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
There was also a funny thing. While I was selling lemons one family, a lady told that actually “I am in a hard situation”. She just gave me money and did not take the lemon and I was ashamed because I was explaining that “No I am not doing it for that, I am just doing it for fun” etc. So interesting experiences but I am glad that it happened because I believe this is a problem today. Z generation, they do not do that much, they do not have enough wide experiences. Some bad stuff when you are little so that you can be ready for the reality.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
That expectation thing because they watch Netflix and in the television series they see that an intern meets with the CEO, then they solve a 20 years old problem, then they become the manager of the entire region, then they live a love with the CEO. These are stupid scenarios. When you look at the actual reality you need to be an expert for one thing and it usually takes like 10 years and you need to show all the patience and you always need to stay calm and you should protect the positive attitude as much as possible. I will try to pass this to the future generation from my family as much as possible.

Fery Kaszoni:
Sometimes, like as you said, people do not go through enough things in life so they get more resilient on things. When I was a child we had traveller families on our street and we also had lots of dogs and every time I went to the shop the kids of the traveller families were throwing, we were throwing stones at each other and then the dogs were running after me. So it was like a crazy experience. You had to be adapting and running and doing things. It was like a crazy childhood. I think people, as you said, are just on a tablet. You do not get to experience those.

James Dooley:
They should start eating the wall a little bit and they should feel some pain. Because when I get my first, I do not know the English word for it. Imagine if someone is angry to you, even if they are right or wrong, but they just, superior and tell something bad to you. You should be able to take it in, digest it and keep doing the same thing. You cannot have any resentment for instance and I believe it takes time to get this reality for the kids. It is also for SEO too. For instance I do not know, maybe I have endurance because when I was in the casino niche I remember that we had a launch and I worked like 36 hours nonstop. Then I went to the house for sleeping with a private chauffeur and four hours later the boss just called me, woke me up, called me back. I went there and worked another eight hours then I returned. If it is important for that moment we never say no and we just do it.

James Dooley:
So it is worth, that is why maybe I was working like crazy in the white industries because I could not see someone similar because they always have insurance or everything covers so well, they do not have to be hard working that much actually to be honest.

James Dooley:
Indeed.

Fery Kaszoni:
They give, they just.

James Dooley:
If you are not being pushed with something you do not have to develop that part of resilience in your mindset. Mind resilience is one of the most important mindsets you need to have.

James Dooley:
I think we all need pain in life.

Fery Kaszoni:
Yeah of course.

James Dooley:
To build that resilience. You cannot develop the character if you do not have pain and pressure.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
Same also happens in army too. For instance when I was in army it was not hard for me but many adults there, let us say they are judges and from every occupation, they were about to cry. They get everything like a resentment for my commander. If he says something bad I just say “Yes commander, yes commander, yes sir”.

James Dooley:
Just be humble.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
Yeah that is it. I do not have another chance by the way, it is rules.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
Is the army still mandatory in Turkey.

James Dooley:
One year or six months.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
I was in the six month section. It was one of the hard situations to be honest but in a way I love it. I had many responsibilities there. I am tested by many things. There was a funny moment for instance. I was, I do not know the English word again, sorry. Pro guardian for a passage and my lieutenant came and told me that even if a general comes here you will not allow them to pass. I am just a regular soldier and he expects me to say no to a general and yes man. So I was trying to handle both sides as much as.

James Dooley:
Did the general come.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
Oh yeah of course they come and they got past of course. They also come with private guardians as well and you cannot say no that easily. But in the Turkish army it was after the coup attempt and they were having some fractions and everyone is suspecting from each other and you are in the middle of entire. Because everywhere was full of bullet holes because it was just after the coup attempt. Half of the army is fired and everyone is trying to also understand whether this guy is attached to somewhere and you are just a private soldier there in the middle of everything. It was, but to be honest, it was the hardest experience but perfect. It helped me to understand humans better and it helped me to actually, I believe my face shape changed in six months. It was stressful but it was the best experience that I can learn to be honest.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
That is why I love this type of things actually. I believe the other people do not have that thing, that is why they were crying, complaining, trying to get health reports to exit the army etc. But I was okay with most of the things.

Fery Kaszoni:
Nice. It is good.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
Anything else. Before ending what we should call this episode. We usually choose the name inside the episode.

Fery Kaszoni:
Fery what the what.

James Dooley:
It is a nice name actually and we would like to name it after you actually.

Fery Kaszoni:
Yeah.

James Dooley:
Just okay.

Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR:
Two Person Dooley and the Three Person Fery episode is ending here. Thank you very much.

James Dooley:
Thank you very much.

Karl Hudson:
It was a great chat.

Fery Kaszoni:
Thank you.