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Building Doors is a podcast about Inspiring Leaders who have created their own opportunities and are thought leaders, industry advocates and change makers in their field. This podcast gives you the resources, insights and steps to stop waiting for opportunities and start building your doors for success. Listen to this podcast to gain the resources, career tips and hands-on advice on how you can gain clarity and build doors in your own life and career.
Kylie Sprott (00:00:01):
The most important one is be willing to change course. Sometimes the best laid plans will get changed and it'll be through no fault of your own. Having the ability to remember that and don't get too stuck in only one way of getting to the end is important.
Trailer (00:00:15):
Welcome to Building Doors. In this series, you'll develop the skills to build a roadmap for success. Get inspired by those leaders who have come before you and give you the confidence to stop waiting and start building. Kylie's
Lauren Karan (00:00:36):
Kylies career began with a role in human resources in the United Kingdom and has expanded to include executive leadership roles across all aspects of corporate services and specifically around business transformation. She now works with multiple businesses in both board and advisory capacity.
Throughout her career, Kylie has developed an expansive knowledge regarding mergers and acquisitions as well as organic business growth and expert in cultural mapping. Kylie has conducted the due diligence and led the integration of over 25 acquisitions globally. A truly international leader, Kylie, has also enjoyed working in Australia, New Zealand, United States, Ecuador, United Kingdom, and Asia. Kylie is well known for her inclusive and inspirational leadership style, and has successfully led corporate teams in businesses varying inside from a hundred to over 8,000 employees. Her experience spans both private businesses, having worked in an executive capacity in six publicly listed organisations.
I saw Kylie speak at an event and I was just blown away and I just had to get you onto the podcast. You were so honest, authentic, and a lot of your journey I think resonated with a lot of people in the audience. In fact, I think we went over time. No one would let you go. I know it did go for a very long time, but this was a good time to me, it was really enjoyable. It was the Women in Leadership event, so you do a lot of consulting work with Winston, and they held that event, which is so good. It was a great event. So one of the things you spoke about when you were talking to us was your start in life and what it was like growing up with a stay-at-home mom and that journey. Tell us a bit about the values early on in life because you're a great storyteller.
Kylie Sprott (00:02:25):
So tell us about what shaped you and where you've come from. Gosh, we're going straight into the hard stuff, aren't we? Straight into the deep stuff. So look, my parents got divorced when I was very young, and so I was thinking the other day, I was trying to remember what memories I have of my parents actually being together. So they split up when I was five and they were divorced when I was six. And there's, I've got these fleeting memories of that time and I can remember some quite impactful moments even when I was really small, but most of my memories are obviously when it was my mom. And so it would've been hard for her because in the seventies there weren't that many people who had divorced families at that point. And so I think people in society were still navigating their way around that.
(00:03:10):
And certainly my Mum was pretty keen to get married again. I think she saw that as an important part of her path, and I don't think I really judged her pretty harshly for that actually. I didn't really understand why she felt the need to sort of repartner and look, I think she probably felt lonely, but also very overwhelmed with having three children who were all very young at the time. And so it was quite a traditional sort of approach, I suppose, to parenting. And I think I was quite judgmental of that when I was little and I remember watching, just thinking, yeah, I didn't understand why we had to go through that process of, and so she got remarried when I was 10, but she had another partner in between who she's now with again after the second husband. But I think that she felt that she had no choice.
(00:04:02):
So she was very much cast in that mold of being the stay-at-home mom who had the perfect of family, perfect house. And she was an amazing housekeeper by the way. The house was always perfect, pristine. But yeah, I think I was probably quite, I don't know, judgmental even when I was quite small watching all of that. As you get older and you have your own life experiences, you have more compassion as to what it would've been like. But yeah, it was an interesting start. I think.
Lauren Karan (00:05:04):
I'm glad you mentioned the stay at home. I actually also came from a stay at home mom. What do you think around, there's this thing if you've grown up with a stay-at-home mom and you are a working parent, what are your thoughts around how you navigate? Because when you become a working parent, having a perfect house, having the dinner on time and not Uber Eats or something like that, for me personally, I sometimes hold myself too high of a standard to what I'm expecting myself to do in a full day.
How do you feel having stay at home mom, but now being a working and really successful working Mum, how do you find that identity as well?
Kylie Sprott
Well see, the problem is, and this has been probably an issue for me my entire life, is I don't like to do anything by halves. And so for me, there is no option other than still having everything at home, working really well and doing a really good job. And so I think I put enormous pressure on myself as a result. And so I like to be really super organized, but I have outsourced some things, like we have cleaners who come every fortnight, which I could not live without, but I'm still tidying all the time and doing laundry all the time. I get up really early. And so I think there's a part of me that just can't accept that potentially you could do something less than well.
And so I like to try really hard, but I'm also trying to find very efficient ways that I can improve the processes around everything from cooking to say the slow cooker is a fantastic revelation to me, as is the air fryer by the way. But I'm always constantly looking for little shortcuts and ways to improve things and obviously engaging my kids more as they've got older in terms of helping. And yeah, I think that that's probably the interesting thing is I don't think my house is the same as my mom's. So because hers was that in the 1970s, everything was very, you had a formal dining room and the formal lounge and don't like that kind of approach. And she still has a formal lounge and formal dining room, whereas I think our generation is much more about having a more functional house that feels a bit more relaxed.
(00:06:44):
So even though it's very organized and very tidy and clean, thanks to my lovely cleaners, it's not as formal. Whereas I think that that's what my mom aspired to. And I think a lot of families in the seventies had that kind of formal feeling to it, especially portions of the house. So that's very different to me, and I think I've kind of rebelled against that. I didn't like that. So there's a real casual feel to that house and it's very lived in, but it's also very well run. Yeah, I love that. I love that you talk about outsourcing and things like that because that's an important thing that people don't think of. What can you outsource? How can you streamline the process like you do at work, but in your home? When I was very young, my father gave me this book to read, which was about this man who had a family, and he was getting them to basically do process re-engineering with all these tasks at home.
(00:07:33):
So to see how they could effectively use lean principles to reduce the number of steps in every task. And it really impacted me from a young age. So even now, even as I'm hanging out the washing, I'm constantly thinking about how to do it more efficiently and so have all these little games. It sounds so weird. I have all these little games going on in my head about how can I do it so that it's faster, more efficient and easier to take off the line as well. Any hacks? Anything you've figured out that's slow cookers? One? Yeah. Yes, definitely slow and the air fry. Gosh, air fry. It's great. Isn't it amazing? But yeah, when I'm doing the washing, it's all about you minimize the number of movements. So if you're constantly bending over to pick things up, if you do one thing at a time that's not very efficient, so you would minimize the number of movements.
(00:08:22):
So you would bend over and take five items out of that basket and then you would do say all the t-shirts in a row. But this is really boring. I'm sure I don't, I reckon there's people out here really every single parent I know that we talk about it. It's like, what are you doing the weekend? And I had a dad the other day go to me washing, washing and washing and washing. But see, he should break that down so that he doesn't do it all in one day. Well, he should break it down. I hope he's listening down so that maybe he has do one load in the morning. And it's the same with any task if you break it down into smaller chunks rather than doing it. And so we talk about this even with study, it took me ages to figure that out when I was a student that it's not a great idea to do everything the night before.
(00:09:06):
If you break it into smaller chunks, then you can keep on refining and it's very iterative. So whereas doing all the washing in one day is overwhelming and you just keep procrastinating and putting it off, except if you break it into smaller chunks, it's not as quite as overwhelming. And then it saves time too because then the kids aren't, and I'm not talking about any children in particular. Noah and Zoe are just rummaging through their pile trying to find their stuff because it's all streamlined and there's a process around it. So you're going to do that, aren't you this weekend? I totally am. You've convinced me. One of the things you spoke about when I listened to you speak as well, which really resonated me, and it's almost like what I walked away with afterwards was challenging the status quo. It was something that really came through a lot and what you spoke about.
(00:09:47):
Tell us about how you've done that in your own life. Oh look, there's lots of times, and I know when I did that speech, I was talking about the eight year old me that went on strike, which is quite, tell us the story I want to hear. It was a good one. It's quite funny. So again, it was about kind of observing what was happening in my household. And I think I've always questioned everything, but also really, I suppose I was born in 1970, so a lot of the role models then it was going through the world, was going through a lot of change. And there were a lot of unions who were striking against their working conditions, but also you had these quite interesting role models popping up on tv, so women were starting to become much more vocal about a whole range of different things.
(00:10:29):
So I was like a little sponge, just taking all of that on board. And so I didn't really like the traditional delineation of responsibilities in the house. And so I remember going on strike about that, but I'd actually got the idea when I was quite small watching it on tv, and it really percolated in my head about how that could be applied to my own circumstances. But probably my favorite one is still the one about when I was working in that service station. Oh, tell, that's my favorite story that you did tell. Oh, it's so good. And it makes me really proud because that was a wonderful, wonderful period of my life. I can't kind of stress how happy I was at that time because it had this big situation where I'd made this grand statement to my mother and had moved out of home when I was only 18 and I was at university.
So I had to work at least two jobs, usually three in the holidays to get through. And so I had to grow up very, very quickly. But one of my favorite jobs was working at the So Turga service station, which unfortunately no longer actually exists. And Roger who owned it, it was such an impactful person in my life. He was really like a father figure in lots of ways. And I think I was the daughter he never had and he was definitely a father figure to me. And so there was him and Jared and Ruth and I, the four of us used to, even though I was looking a casual, I still find it hilarious, I got away with murder there. I think they found me very entertaining. And anyway, so there was this really scary mechanic downstairs called and everyone was a bit nervous around him, including Roger.
And anyway, part of my job was to go down and get their morning tea order every morning and it was actually part of my job. So I find it hilarious to reflect on this. And I would go downstairs and they had these artworks for one of a better term, on the walls, those kind of magazines. We all know those artworks. Yes. And so this was in the late eighties and I remember just going and I could feel my blood boiling that this was going to be the environment I'd have to go into every day. And so I actually basically said to him kind of a deal and said, look, I'm not going to be coming down here to take your order whilst those things are on the wall. So you have a choice and I'll leave you 24 hours to consider it, but I'm basically not going to come back down here and to take your morning tea order and you can come upstairs with that and I'll ring it through for you, or you can take them down and I'll come down every day and help you out.
And I even deliver it downstairs once it's been delivered from the cafe. And I gave him 24 hours, Tom Roger, who again thought I was hilarious, and he took them down and they were actually, I think probably quite respectful of me because of the fact that I stood up for what I believed in. So even though I was 18 and incredibly naive, really in lots of ways I wasn't jaded or I was full of hope and I still believed without any sort of fear that I might, having a voice and challenging things was actually really positive thing to do at a young age as well. It kind of alludes to what your values were too, having a voice and challenging the status quo.
Lauren Karan
Do you think your values have changed or shifted over time or do you think that they've been constant in your life as you've grown through your own career?
Speaker 1 (00:13:41):
Kylie Sprott
Look, I think if I'm really honest, my values have always been pretty strong. But I think you do get a bit jaded as you go through different circumstances. When I was in that job, I was only very young and I hadn't really experienced anyone anything other than good things really. Obviously it was the trauma of my parents getting divorced and all that sort of stuff at home. But in terms of my sense of self, no one had ever really made me think that anything was beyond me. But I think as you go through life and particularly through work experiences, but also through relationship experiences, then you start to realize that potentially your ideals aren't always going to work out. And so you do get a bit jaded I think, as life goes on. And the trick for me has always been how do you maintain that kind of childlike enthusiasm for life and genuine desire to still make an impact and have a really meaningful life despite what's happened around you, what swirls around you?
And so I actually have on my noticeboard a home, a picture of me covered in mud with my neighbors, one of my neighbors and my older brother when I would've been four in the photo. And it's just this look of complete joy on my face. And so I often look at that and just go, remember that little person? She hadn't experienced anything at all that wasn't positive in her life at that point. So I think it's just important to try to really maintain that despite what happens to you.
Lauren Karan
I love that. It's hard though. It is hard, and I think a lot of people as well, we have a lot of listeners as well, and young women that have gone into careers and I've talked to them before going into careers in industries that are male dominated industries like construction and manufacturing and things like that, which has its challenges. Did you ever come up with those sort of challenges yourself through the organizations?
Kylie Sprott (00:15:42):
Gosh, I think we need to be real about them. So that's why I do like to talk about it because that way people that might be listening will realize they're not alone if they're facing same. Oh, absolutely. And look, early in my career, I worked in the IT industry and in the 1990s the IT industry had more cowboys than Dallas and Texas. It was madness. When I think about now some of the stuff that went on, some of the behavior, and again, you kind of almost started to think that was normal, some of the stuff that went on and really bad behavior from men who were a lot older than the women and you were sort of expected to kind of normalize that it was normal. But to be honest with you, even when I worked in engineering and my favorite of a job was working in engineering, but even there, I remember sitting in executive meetings where they were talking about having been to strip clubs and whether or not that was okay for someone to put it on their expenses and potentially we couldn't make that dismiss that person for doing the wrong thing because we've all done it.
(00:16:47):
And I remember just thinking this is absolutely disgusting that even in this day and age that these senior people still are talking about these things like it's normal now. I don't think today that would be acceptable actually. No, I agree. I really don't think so. And I look at my 17 year old daughter and she would not stand for that, but that wasn't that long ago. That was only 10 years ago. So I don't know. And even there, they would have all these kind of stories about folklore, stories about men and some of the things that happened, and I've often wondered if it's a good thing, but they often get so comfortable with me that they forget that I'm a woman. And so they tell you things and you're sitting there looking at them feeling mortified and offended on two fronts, one as a woman, but also the fact that they seem to have forgotten that you're a woman.
(00:17:41):
So I don't know, all that sort of stuff was really challenging. One of the most interesting things for me was my daughter recently wrote a paper for her economics assignment, was it economics? I think it was, which was about she decided to do research on the gender pay gap and the impact on the Australian economy over the last 50 years, this ridiculously impressive paper. My daughter is incredibly good writer. And so she gave it to me to read and said, does this resonate for you? And I was literally holding back the tears and I said to her, this is my life. This is my career that you're talking about here. And the blatant gap around gender pay gaps and all the roles that I'd had as an executive was just so incredibly hard to stomach and they would always have ways to justify it every single time. And probably the worst example, there's lots of examples, but one of the ones that really upset me was I remember in one job and I was doing this really big job and I had it hr, marketing, health and safety, and I was doing a lot of mergers and acquisitions and I had a huge team, probably about 150 globally reporting through to me.
00:18:57):
And I'd worked in executive roles for a really long time. I had a lot of experience in publicly illicit companies. And there's younger guy who, he was actually a really lovely person and he was an impressive individual, but he had no qualifications, no experiences as an executive, he didn't manage any teams and he didn't manage any budgets. I was managing all those budgets as well, didn't manage any projects. He got paid more than me and he got a bigger bonus for me. And I remember saying to the CEO who I really liked by the way, he was a great C E o, I remember sort of saying to him, I don't understand, how can that be and how can that work? And he said, without even understanding how offensive it was actually, well, he's the future. He's going to be a C E O one day, he's the future. (00:19:47):
And I was just said, what am I chopped liver? Wow. I just remember. But he honestly didn't think he was being offensive to me. And then he had that kind of, you should be really grateful, you're getting paid really well. And I said, it's actually not even about what I'm getting paid, it's just the fact that there's no parity. But it's funny how on the one hand I could have resigned, but then I would've lost all those opportunities. But it was those sort of things I think chip away your enthusiasm. So the little 18 year old Kylie is telling the service station mechanic that you can't put those things up on the wall because I find it offensive. I dunno how she would've felt about almost 40 year old Kylie being in that situation where she couldn't basically change the outcome of that. It was really hard to stomach that and those things. (00:20:39):
I think they do erode your confidence on that after a while because even though you're keen to have a voice and you want to say things, it's just kind of butting your head up against the wall. But having said that, that person is a CEO now, and I think he's doing quite well. Obviously he was an impressive individual, but it was a bit hard to stomach at the time. Absolutely. And I think there's that certain level of resilience that you can have and you come into the world and ready to challenge a status quo, but then if you get a few knocks and things like that, it knocks your confidence over time. Yeah. Well, and look, I think my last executive job was like, that was just the last time I just couldn't do it anymore. And again, there was a massive gender pay gap there. And again, I had massive remit and then I found out that I was the lowest paid executive again, and you just go. And the CEO O had made a commitment to me that he was going to make sure that didn't happen. And so when I called him on it, he was like, oh, there is no gender pay gap. And I didn't say we'd fix it up.
(00:21:49):
Does it really matter if you're paid so much less than these people? It'll take me a couple of years to fix it up. I just remember thinking, oh my God, just so it's just after a while it's just exhausting fighting. So I think what's amazing for me is watching the younger women coming through today because they're just so, they have such a zero tolerance for that. And I loved watching all the stuff come to the fore with the Me Too movement because I feel like I lived through a lot of those experiences and to see all that coming to the fore and women starting to really push back, still have a long way to go, but it's a different era for my daughter, which makes me really happy. I think it's going to be really even more impressive if she has a daughter. Yeah, I love it and I love to see it as well.
(00:22:35):
And it's like the journey that you've had and then she's seen your journey as well, and she's watching and she's learning and she's probably, I'm guessing a sponge like her mom and taking all that in. And then her journey is going to benefit from maybe some of the challenges and struggles that you've had through your career as well in advocating for that fairness and pay. Yeah, I hope so. And look, she's much more impressive than I was at her age. She's amazing actually. Both my kids are amazing. They're really impressive individuals in different ways, but I think it's nice when you can honestly say that they're my two favorite people in the whole world to spend time with. They're just incredible, but so smart. But I feel really happy as well that they're in an environment where it's a very happy home and the three of us are pretty tight, but we also give each other space.
(00:23:27):
And so there's just a nice kind of lovely feeling in the house and there's no conflict or tension or everything's pretty good and it's a nice environment. So I feel like I think I've done a reasonable job so far, touch wood, of being a good mom for them. And it's probably the best thing I think I've ever done is having my kids.
Lauren Karan
Yeah, I feel the same about my kids. Yeah, it's awesome, isn't it? I get a really nice report card and I'm just glowing for the rest of the day was like my child's kind. Same, he improved on his math school, just not telling that outwardly to people. But because I think we as parents underestimate a lot of the time, the amount of effort and love and attention that we give to our children in terms of their, not just their schooling but their hobbies, what drives them and that's exactly right.
Kylie Sprott
(00:24:17):
And do you know what I love about what you just said is the first thing you said was their kind. And I love reading about their behaviors too. The marks are important, but the behaviors are so important. And I always encourage them that that's such an important element of being a good person is having the right behaviors and being kind. And so it's lovely that you said that first. Oh yeah, I do love reading the behaviors. I'll skimm down to the behaviors and go just see how they're going. I do believe a lot of that is what a lot of the best leaders I know maybe have shared with me. One of them that's a really good leader, didn't do that well academically in university, but he's amazing at connecting with people and influencing people. It takes all different types. And I said that too to Ruby is that he hasn't quite figured out where he's going yet, but he's only in grade nine.
(00:25:04):
So Ruby and I were saying to him the other day that when she was in grade nine, she wasn't doing exceptionally well, but she kind of found her groove when she got into grade 11, which is a perfect time to be peeking, as I said to her. So grade 11 and 12 is a good time to be coming into your own. But I said to her when I was at high school, look, I was under the radar. I'm really quite certain that if you asked our teachers out of all of the people in that grade who would be successful, I'm pretty sure my name would not have been there. I don't think I just kind of was getting through there. I'd never saw it as the main game. I wanted to go to university, but I didn't. A lot of my friends were much higher achievers in terms of their academic scores than me.
(00:25:46):
And I remember going to the reunion, the school reunion, and the teachers didn't even know who I was. So I don't think I stood out, but I knew deep down inside that once I was out on my own that I would be fine and that I would find something that made me successful. I just kind of felt like I was going underneath the radar and had to get through that experience, but it wasn't the end game for me. So now having all that experience, do you ever fly under the radar now or are you still always that confident, do you think, I'm just curious, do you ever go back to that sometimes flying, observing and sitting back? Are you kind of always all in there? I think I found myself when I got out of school, I think that I wasn't really wasn't confident except for when I was debating.
(00:26:34):
I was always into my debating, which is a great skill to have. And when I was doing high jump, that was always my sport. I knew I was good at those two things. And so I was very confident when I was in either of those areas. But in terms of thinking that I had anything additional to add or that I would be someone that was special in terms of that, I wouldn't have ever thought that. But I think now generally I'm pretty confident, but there are times where I just want to withdraw. And we were just saying before that quite spending time by myself and I've traveled a lot by myself and I actually really, I know there's a lot of people who find that terrifying, but that is not terrifying to me. That's a wonderful experience to travel by myself and I've never found it my own company, boring.
(00:27:30):
I quite enjoy that. But there are times definitely at work where I would probably withdraw a little bit. It would depend on the circumstances around me, but generally I'm pretty extroverted now. Tell me a little bit about, I wanted to talk about your journey going on boards because I get asked this question all the time, and so every time I get somebody that's gone into that journey, what was your pathway to get there? So how did you get into that executive level and be at that level of being on boards and things like that? Because a lot of people, I'm talking to clients, they don't know how to get there. And it's funny, isn't it, because I think your ambitions kind of shift as you get more experience. I was reflecting the other day when my first job in hr, I remember just thinking to myself, God, if I could just be an HR officer, I'd be so happy at uni.
Lauren Karan (00:28:18):
I was like, I just want to earn 50 grand so I can leave off something other than minute noodles. I know, it's so funny.
Kylie Sprott
So I think your ambitions shift and the bigger your experiences get, the more you tend to then start to reach for more. And so my first executive job, I was 27 and it was a great experience that was with the IT company, but I was really green and I was very lucky because all the other executives were pretty accommodating in terms of teaching me about business rather than hr. So I was really was kind of like a sponge around them. And they also gave me a fantastic coach who coached me a lot and that was a really, really valuable experience to help me really shift when someone can in a nice way actually really challenge you and that is only coming from a good place and they're not your manager and you've got that kind of trusted relationship, it really does push you to go outside of your comfort zone.
(00:29:18):
So I think having coaches has really helped. So it was pretty young and I really did find that leading was very natural for me and managing teams was very natural and I did start to enjoy having that kind of position of influence. So I've always really liked that. And so the jobs just got bigger and bigger and more interesting and the remit just got further and further in terms apart in terms of the broadness of what I was responsible for. And then I think at one point I thought, oh, longer term maybe I could do board work. And then I was really fortunate I had a C E O who put me on the Australian Institute Company directors course. So I think if you have a great C E O who's prepared to invest in you to do that, it actually helps you talk more to the boards that you are actually working with because you need to be able to engage with 'em in a different way to how you do with other people in the business.
(00:30:11):
So that was really helpful. And I did that a long time ago. That would be maybe 10 years ago, well before I had any board opportunities. But then I also believe that it's important to always be doing good work no matter what capacity you're in, because often things that you're picking up even from decades ago will often turn up later on down the track. So no skill is wasted. And my very first board role was actually working with someone who I'd worked with, I'd known since I was 24, and they remembered that I had some skills and so they kind of had a conversation with this company about me going onto the board and they were really, he's an amazing man, his name's Ian, he's just incredible. And he waited for six months for me to be available to go on that board because I just didn't think I'd be able to fit it in with two young kids and a big job.
(00:31:01):
And they were very accommodating and he was amazing actually in terms of making sure that I was well supported and doing a good job on that board. It took me a while to get really find my feet, but it's good when your first board role is with someone who is trying really hard to make sure you're successful. And he really helped me a lot. And then I just started to go from there and then I started to get more advisory board work, but I was doing it in tandem with my executive work, to be honest with you. And that is a hard road. And at one point I had to let one of them go because it was, I was getting exhausted. It was too much. But it was also a really smart thing to do doing the executive and the board stuff in tandem so that when I was ready to go to the executive stuff, I already had quite a bit of experience and it wasn't too hard then to just keep going down the board road.
00:31:51):
I actually hadn't thought of the coaching aspect, even though I know it makes a hundred percent sense. I think a lot of the time we think of coaching just around leadership development, leadership coaching, but then there's also that aspect of opening your eyes to what might be possible for you or also what you might be missing in your day-to-day job and uncovering any biases you might have as well. It's nice having those, I've had a coach before and it's nice having that coach that will be that mirror, but sometimes of the things you don't want to see or that you're avoiding, and look, I love those kind of coaches, like the best ones I've had. I've had a couple that were a little bit too soft and fluffy for my liking and it was kind of like, yeah, I can just hang out with my mates if I need someone to tell me nice stuff.
(00:32:37):
But for me, the best coaches have been ones who've actually really made me think and actually confront some of the stuff that might be showing up in different ways that I didn't realize. And so yeah, I've had a lot of them now over the years and they're really helpful, but have made me confront things and change things and improve. There's one amazing woman in Sydney called Peter. She was my coach for a long time, and I remember her and I, we were talking about this situation that happened at work where the whole thing about wanting to do everything really well, I'd worked there for a really long time and because of a whole range of circumstances, I felt like my style was falling and perhaps they didn't think I was still as good as I thought I was at my job. And so I felt like, and there was a person there who was undermining me, who was new on the executive team who unfortunately was a woman, which was very shocking from my perspective.
(00:33:29):
And I didn't know what to do about all these things. And so I remember in the coaching session saying to her, I don’t know what to do. Everything I've done over 10 years suddenly seems to be worthless because this new person's turned up and she doesn't like me. And so she's actively undermining me in all these meetings. And so the coach was really good. She let me get a little off my chest for maybe two sessions and by the third session she just hit me between the eyes about was I seeking approval from the CEO as if he was a pseudo father figure, which was really hardcore to hear that. And she was right by the way, once I really thought about it. And I do think that my dad not being there when I was growing up does impact how I've approached some of the work relationships, particularly with the ceo.
(00:34:19):
And so having that kind of hit between the eyes and she said, this is a work relationship and you need to show him and everyone else in the room how good you are. So she said, you have been good for 10 years and now it's time to take it up on several notches. So she said that you start to remember how good you are and you showed them all without making any rash comments or she said, you just take everything up several levels. And she said, and we will just keep on pushing and pushing until you do it everywhere and it starts to become second nature. And it was such good advice. So firstly, hearing the bit about the father thing was actually quite confronting, but then having the whole thing about how do you take what you're doing and make it several times better.
(00:35:08):
And so what ends up happening in that situation is when you're focused on improving everything, you just forget all the crap that's flying around you from a politics perspective. So I just forgot about worrying about her and whether or not she was undermining me and just focused on doing really good work. And it was a really good piece of advice because now whenever I get in those situations where there's lots of stuff flying around, I just try to focus on doing really good work. It's such a good point because tall poppy syndrome in Australia is alive and well. It's something that unfortunately does happen and you're putting all your energy into what one person is thinking or how they might be blocking you or undermining you, then you're missing that opportunity to just get ahead and do it. Just shine. Yeah, just do your stuff.
(00:35:52):
Do your great work. Yeah. And let the work speak for itself. And ultimately that's something you can always be proud of is the quality of your work, and no one can ever take that away from you. And then ultimately, if that environment keeps going, I think it's good to have the courage to just leave. And that's the other thing I would tell my younger version of myself is maybe sometimes just go, it's not in the right place. It's not the right place for you. If you're doing really good work and you're not being appreciated, just maybe just go, there's other places and other options, but I think all of us get a bit stuck and you feel like you have to stay and you've got false loyalty or loyalty that's not necessarily reciprocated in terms of an organization or you have a fear that maybe you're not actually capable of doing more or that maybe you won't find something better or all of those things kind of play.
(00:36:43):
But I think if you back yourself, it does actually generally work out. I wish I'd done that often more times earlier. And if it doesn't, we always have a saying in our team, what's the lesson in this? Yeah, exactly. We can focus on what went wrong, but really what's the lesson in it at the end of the day, there is a lesson in it that you've got to learn. And that whole thing about Einstein, what's the definition of insanity, is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Exactly. Oh my God, it's taken me so long to get that through my head because I still sometimes think I do the same, make the same mistakes. Yeah, because habits as well, you get learned behavior and you continually do it, and then you think, oh, I'm doing that again. I know.
Lauren Karan 00:37:21):
Tell us about your journey at Cardno. So you've been through over 25 mergers and acquisitions, and that was no doubt, a big part of your career and life. Tell us about what you learned from that process.
Kylie Sprott (00:38:09):
Oh, look, by the way, that was absolutely my favorite job ever. Yes. And you said that, and that's why we've got to talk about that job. Oh my God, I love that job. That was the best job ever. And I loved working there. I loved the bulk of the people there and I loved the C e o who I primarily worked with there. The first one was fantastic. The executive team were fantastic. I just loved everything about it. But what I probably learned is that I did have, when I got the job, I remember having on my very first day, this feeling of fear wash over me, of what the hell have you done? You're not going to be able to do this job. It's such a big job. And I remember having to actively push that out of my head and really embrace the opportunities in front of me. And once I embraced them, then I found that the organization embraced me back. It was a really good experience. I would say during that time I had two young children and my husband at the time, he was a stay at home dad. So I think I was just chomping at the bit, loving everything about what was going on at work, really enjoying everything from a career perspective, being pushed outside of my comfort zone. I just felt like I was learning every day. It was wonderful. But in terms of what I would've learned there is I think I again was excessively loyal ultimately because at the end when that wonderful C e O retired, the company went through a succession of really horrendous things, and I was so loyal to the organization that I was like the orchestra playing on the Titanic.
(00:39:15):
I was there to the end until I got thrown off the boat. I was there playing my cello. I was absolutely committed to that organization. And so when ultimately it ended up a terrible experience for me, it was probably one of the most traumatic experiences in my life. And I would say it took probably a couple of years to get past that because it was almost like I had found this perfect job that I loved. It wasn't perfect, but I loved this job, loved the people, and I literally would've stayed there until I retired. That's how much I loved it. So the trauma of it being ripped away in really, really challenging circumstances was just devastating. And my marriage broke up no longer after that. I think I found it really hard to focus on anything after that. The two executive jobs I had after that I really did not enjoy, and they were just terrible organizations, but my confidence had plummeted and it was just horrendous.
(00:40:17):
That whole experience on my psyche was just really traumatic. Having said that though, it's funny how you have this kind of perception in your head about how others see you. And I felt like in a weird way that I'd let all these people down, that I'd let so many people down because I hadn't helped fend off this hostile takeover. But at the end of the day, I saw this wonderful person, Sarah, the other day, I was facilitating this strategy session, and she used to work at Kaner, and the first thing she said to me was, she came in and she said to me, and she gave me this big hug and she said, do you remember me comforting you when they basically got rid of all the executives? She said, do you remember me comforting you and you were crying at work at Kaner? I said, oh, yeah, I do.
(00:41:02):
I said, sorry about that. And she said, I looked at you and said, what are you worried about? You're going to do so much better than this. It's so great that you're getting out. And so her perception was completely different to mine. And she said to me every day, and look at you now. Look at you. You're doing so well. So even it's interesting that her perception was so different to mine, but also I think I feel almost embarrassed now that I was so excessively loyal to that organization. But I think in some ways, coming back to what that coach said to me, I think that there was a kind of a family unit there and there was a sense of safety and that it was a place of stability and I felt loved and safe and wonderful, and that everyone respected me and I was so, it was this wonderful, wonderful place where I felt that I could be authentically myself.
(00:41:52):
So when it was ripped away, I was like, oh my God, who am I without that? And the worst thing of all is, and you see this all the time, is people drop off. They disappear. One moment. You are this superstar who everyone wants to be associated to. You've got this big job and next thing you know, you're like, nobody. So well, that's how it felt. But the truth is that's ridiculous because it's just a job and your sense of self is really about yourself and who you are as an individual. So I felt also kind of disappointed in myself that I'd got so wrapped up in this organization that it literally crushed me when it all sort of all came to an end.
(00:42:37):
Lauren Karan
I still believe, and I wanted to talk to you about that, that there's this grief process after a redundancy or a restructure that people don't acknowledge. No one tells you that I had a role for five years. It was restructured, and I loved that job, and I loved that company. When it was restructured as devastated, I cried the whole way home. And I think people need to talk real about the fact that restructures, redundancies, all that sort of stuff, it affects if there's a grieving process.
Kylie Sprott
Oh, it's a traumatic experience, and there's posttraumatic post-traumatic disorder, P ts d, posttraumatic stress disorder. Yes, that's it. Yeah, that actually comes into play. And one of the things that's really interesting about this is there's this really interesting psychologist called Dr. Rebecca Ray, and I was asked by the women of influence down the Gold Coast to go to an event where she and I were going to talk about trauma at work and how it manifests itself. And so I told the story about what had happened to Cardno, and it was on stage in front of about, I don't know, say three or 400 people at a breakfast event.
(00:43:30):
And as I'm reliving the story, all of a sudden it just came over me like a wave, and I'm sobbing on stage in front of all these people, which is really embarrassing. However, it showed that this was, and it was really unexpected. It just came up over me and out of nowhere because I think it was such a traumatic experience, and that trauma does stay with you. And I think people underestimated now because redundancies and restructures are so common, and it's almost impossible to find someone who hasn't experienced it or has a loved one who has experienced it. It's really, really common now. And I don't think organizations understand necessarily. I don't think so either. And that's one of the things that's really hard about mergers and acquisitions is if there are people who are casualties in that process. And so I like the ones where no one's actually about bringing things together, and it's not about getting synergies by cutting stuff out, because that's always hard when you know that there's going to be people who'll be impacted, and you can see the fear in their eyes, you can see that.
(00:44:35):
So I like the ones where there's a lot to be gained by everyone by bringing them together. It's a wonderful one I'm working on at the moment where you just see only upside. There's only wonderful opportunities for everyone, and there's no overlap. It's just everyone is going to win. It's going to be one plus one equals three rather than one plus one equals 1.5. So do you think as you move up the corporate ladder and you get these great positions and things like that and people want to know you, they want to connect you because you're in this role, do you think sometimes that it can merge your identity a little bit around you as well and you versus the title? Yes. Oh, absolutely. And look, I think that's probably, and it's really funny for me, I like to think I'm reasonably down to earth, but certainly when I was at kno, you were treated differently, particularly when you went to the US that Australians don't care so much, but in the US they would certainly treat you differently because of your status, because you were, I turn up to the hotel and there would be gifts waiting there for me from, it was just, and people would always be really respectful.
(00:45:44):
But it's amazing how quickly all of that stopped when I wasn't in that role. So some of those people I'm still friends with, but a lot of them just kind of fell away. And so it was always about the role. And I'm sure they think I'm a nice enough person, but they're thinking about their own circumstances and they're kind of thinking about their own career. They're not necessarily seeing you for who you are. And I think also that you have to remember that if you're in a senior role, it's just a role and it's just a job and it doesn't actually define you. You get to define yourself. And I think if you get sucked into thinking the job is you, that's when things start to go can get really dangerous, I think in terms of your own sense of self. I think you're right.
Lauren Karan (00:46:27):
Yeah. Well, I wanted to talk about your life lessons because I loved them. You went through them when you presented, and I think it's important to reflect on them because I think they will resonate with people listening as well. So talk us through five life lessons from Kylie. So the first one, and I wrote them down just in case I forgot. I know they were so good. Yeah. So the first one is that I think you should always have a voice, and it's always important to challenge the status quo. And to be honest with you, no matter what's happened to me, I still do that. I still find that. And if I'm in an environment now where I can't do that, if I can't have the freedom to have a voice and challenge the status quo, I think I now have the strength to say I just have to remove myself from that environment.
Kylie Sprott (00:47:11):
So the work I do now, I'm very selective about the people I work with and also the kind of work that I do. And so if it's not the environment where I can have a voice and I don't feel respected, then I just extract myself from that. And that's one of the great things about the kind of work I do now is that you're not stuck in this where you've got no choice, but you do always have a choice. Sometimes it's just a harder one. So I think having a voice and challenging the status quo is very important. Number two, and this probably comes back to what we were talking before about the process engineering, but I think having conviction and discipline and commitment is really important, and being able to actually have really strong convictions that you really believe in, but also having the discipline to actually execute against those convictions, I think is really important.
(00:47:58):
So I hear a lot of people talking about dreams and aspirations, but they don't actually take any action to get to those dreams or aspirations. So I think it's important to have the dreams and have the conviction, but then commit to the process and commit to actually sometimes you have to do the work. And I think that there are no shortcuts. I think you have to do the work. So I think having that discipline and commitment to your goals is really important. I think number three is probably the most important one is be willing to change course is because whether you like it or not, sometimes the best laid plans will get absolutely changed and it'll be through no fault of your own. So the cardinal example is a great one, but throughout my career, there's been several times where I've changed course. So we didn't talk about today, but as you know, I was really keen to be a political journalist.
(00:48:47):
That was really my thing. Yes, you have to, yes, I really wanted to be Janna. Well, here we go, here we go, here we go. Yeah. Anyway, but that hasn't worked out that way. But there were opportunities that sometimes present themselves in life, and you had to be prepared to change course. And so I think having the ability to remember that and don't get too stuck in just having only one way of getting to the end is important. And it kind of makes things a bit more fun too when you do that. And I think number four is be willing to put yourself forward. And I've definitely got better on this as I've got older is like if you see something and you want it, you've got to put yourself forward. If you don't, then just thinking about it or hoping is not necessarily taking the action to make that happen.
(00:49:29):
And the worst case scenario is that someone says no, and that's not really that bad. So I think being able to really put yourself forward and getting out of your comfort zone is important. So that's worked really well for me. And the last one is embracing change. So sometimes those changes are imposed on you. And I think that that's actually some of the things that I found interesting is that often in my executive roles, I've been the one imposing the change. So it's so easy when you are the one managing the change, but really good to have empathy and understand what it's like when the change is imposed on you. So when you're talking about people losing their jobs or getting made redundant or being in a restructure, they're having a change that is very impactful imposed on them. So I think having had the experience of going through that actually gives you much greater empathy.
(00:50:16):
It does about how that feels, but also ultimately understanding that whether you like or not, the change is coming. So the best thing to do is embrace it. Just get through that grieving process. And I also think nowadays, one of the things that's really great is that people do talk more about mental health. They talk about it so much more than they did in the past, and it doesn't have that same stigma. And so people will go and get counseling and help them through that trauma, and I think that's really important. I don't think that was as prevalent in the past, but I think getting that support is really important. And it was actually quite funny. I was working in this one company once, and it was only a few years ago, and the lunchroom were this bunch of young 20 year olds and they were having lunch and they were just chatting, and one of 'em said, oh yeah, I've had to take a few days mental health leave last week because I had a few issues.
(00:51:11):
I just had to go and see the, and I've tapped into the EAP to get some professional support. And they were just talking about it. She'd just gone and had given blood or something. It was so there was no issue, no stigma. So I think that that's also important is as you go through change, if it is having some kind of impact on you mentally, you should get some support. And it's good that you can get those resources now. And I'm seeing that with the generation coming through. I love that they're so open and talking about it and raising awareness about it as well. Because when they do that, when they have the conversation, if you are struggling or someone in your team is struggling, there's that openness to kind of go, Hey, I need a mental health aid. I'm struggling. And then other people can pitch in, other people can help, other people can support through that.
(00:51:58):
So I think it's so much better. And look for our parents' generation, they just would never, ever have. And even now, that's not something that my mom would talk about. That's not something that she would embrace. And she doesn't want to talk about those things. And that's just not how her generation dealt with those things. And so for our generation, it's better, but at kids it's even more evolved. So I think it's really positive..
Lauren Karan (00:52:45):
I think so too. I mean, my father suffered from P T S D my whole childhood. And look, he just never got better. He never got better. And I do wonder, did he get any help at all? He's seen psychiatrists, he's been in and out of mental wards and things like that to try and get fixed and he's still not better. Federal police officer had a lot, seen terrible things, seen terrible things, seen terrible things
And I look at his generation and I look at the generation coming through and I think this is a good change. This is a good change. This is a change. These conversations save lives and impact so many people. So I'm glad that it's shifted as well. Yeah, I think so too. It's really positive and it makes me feel excited for the future. When you see these young people having ways of questioning things, it just makes you feel like excited for what's going to happen in the future. And I think as well, our children can teach us too sometimes. The other day there was a spider in my son's room and I was like, all right, I'm just going to go, I've got to kill it. We can't. He goes, you can't. And I'm like, what do you mean? He goes, the spider has a home, the spider has a family.
(00:53:30):
You've seen the web that it's been building outside. He's like, why would you kill it? And he was, tin tears, starts crying, he's only nine. I love that. And I went, why would I kill it? My parents have always killed spiders. I love animals. And I went, okay, I could just remove it and get it into a container and take it outside. And he goes, yes, then he can find another home. I know it's just from the mounds of babes. He's only little, he's only young. But then I know that those comments and things that they say and the assignment that you read and things like that, I think we learn so much at work, but gosh, we learn a lot from our children, don't we?
Kylie Sprott
Yeah, I agree. Every day. Oh gosh. At one point, I don't know how long ago this was, but it still has had an impact on me, is I remember Ruby coming to me once and saying, so I've done some research on all the makeup that's in your drawer, and these are the brands that now have to be expelled because they test on animals.
(00:54:21):
And I went, okay. And it was like Mac had to go Mac Oh Mac. Oh no, I know was, but to be honest with you, I loved the fact that she'd done the research. We talk about having conviction and doing your research, and she had a voice. She came to me and showed me all the facts. And so how can you argue against that? I just love that. And I think it's good that she's got the confidence to challenge you a little bit as well and have a good relationship with you to kind of go.
Lauren Karan
Now I can't use Mac, sorry for you. It's fine. So everyone listening probably won't be able to either. No. So look, I did want to find out one more question and a question I always ask. It's so interesting what people answer. What is the legacy you want to leave in your own life?
Kylie Sprott (00:55:14):
I would say aside from obviously my wonderful children, I would say that I was known as someone who helped other people. That would be a good thing. I think I have made an impact on other people's lives, but that's the thing I always think is being kind and helping other people when they need help. That was something that from a very young age became clear to me that sometimes other people don't step up to the mark and help. And I think if you can help, and particularly if you can do something practical, I think helping just, even if there's just one person that you've made an impact on their life, I think that's a really positive thing. So for me, I think always being kind and helping other people in some way, shape or form is important.
(00:56:02):
So I had this very impactful thing happen to me. And I remember I was about 17, and I remember going into the mall with my younger brother and one of my friends from my part-time job at the time. And so we were getting dropped off in a taxi. We were at the top of the mall. That's right. And there was this young woman who had been beaten up and she was in the back of a taxi and it was the top of the mall. And the taxi driver was throwing her out of the taxi. She had no money to pay for the fair, and she'd clearly been beaten up and she was trying to get to a place where she'd be safe. And to my horror, everyone just stood there. All these people were just standing there looking at her. I were just standing around watching this whole scene unfold.
(00:56:44):
And so even though I was only 17, without even thinking, just went up to the taxi driver and gave, it was only $10 too. Gave him the $10, that was all the money I had, but didn't really matter. Gave him the $10 and helped her get to a phone booth so we could get her to this shelter. But that was a really impactful thing. Firstly, the shock that none of these grownups were actually helping her, which was because I was only 17, but also that I had somehow helped her in a way that potentially would help her go on a better path in her life. But it was really shocking to me that, and you see that quite a lot. You do sometimes people just watching, not doing anything to help someone who needs help. So if someone asks my help, I try really hard to help where I can.
(00:57:29):
Sometimes I can't. But if I can, I'll always try hard to be someone who helps others. I really, yeah, there needs to be more people like you in the world. Honestly. No, seriously. I do believe imagine if the more people that have that mindset of how can they help, what value can they add to someone else's life? What a better world it would be. Yeah. Well, and it's not that hard. I think all of us have different skills and you don't have to be some incredible philanthropist to be someone. Sometimes it's just really practical things. And I think a lot of the time people use that excuse, somebody else will do it. But no. Well, yeah, I can tell you in that situation as a 17 year old, being shocked that there were grownups not doing anything to help this woman who'd been clearly beaten up.
(00:58:13):
And I like to think that nowadays that wouldn't happen, that she'd be okay. But I don't know. I don't know. I think humans are interesting sometimes. I've often thought about, I know this is a strange link, but back in the days of the Romans where they had those coliseums where people literally were getting ripped apart by wild animals and they had to hurt each other and there were gladiators and they're killing each other to the death, just go, how could you stay and watch that? And to see something like that happening to another human being. But then I have found myself in sporting events, literally bang for blood for the opposing team to state of origin. How can you not write? And so sometimes people, I think dehumanize a person in front of them. And so in the case of the Romans, watching someone get maed apart by a line or whatever, and the arena, they must have been able to dehumanize those people up there.
Lauren Karan
(00:59:11):
It's a bit like refugees on boats. How do we dehumanize them so much that we're not interested in the people dying? And there's this common thing that people say, I don't want to get involved. I was 17, I remember I was 17 and it was in the middle of the mall in the middle of the city. And there was two ladies, I think they would've only have been 20, so only a little bit older than me. And I don’t knowif you remember the stop the boats, that big thing was a huge thing. And I can't remember if it was around the same time, there was riots and things like that that were going on as well. And I'm in the mall or shopping center for, I don't know why I'm talking American, but I'm in the shopping center and these two women walk past in a traditional dress and there's this guy chasing them and he's like, go back to your own effing country.
(00:59:59):
Oh my God, you don't belong. No one did anything. There was groups of people watching. And these girls are petrified. They're only maybe three years older than me. And my Mum had often said, don't get involved. She's a very kind person, but she's like, don't put yourself in situations where you could get hurt. Yeah. Where you could get hurt. But I never listened to that. I should sometimes. But I thought, well, I went and got security and I said, can you help? These people are being harassed. And no one had spoken to security. No one had done anything police. And they ended up, they got the guy, they got rid of him called the police and things like that. But I would say they'd been walking and he'd been following 'em. They'd been going on for a good five minutes before I got there. And so I definitely agree with you.
Kylie Sprott 01:00:43):
Sometimes it can make you feel, I don't know if you get that, but sometimes get those butterflies in my stomach when I have to do something like that where I'm like, this is something that I have to do. But you have to make that change and you have to help people. And it can be just something small. It doesn't have to be donating millions in charity, but there's ways in every day that you can do a little thing to make someone's life just that bit better. And you just go like the arrogance of that person. I'm sure the First Nations people would be sitting there going, hello, hypocrisy. Just what a terrible thing to say. And this assumption that somehow that we have rights over anyone else coming into our country. And yeah, it's weird. I find all that stuff really hard to stomach, but good on you for see all the things that happened in the mall.
Lauren Karan (01:01:30):
I know you never know. And with that sort of thing, and just those small little actions, it's just they're the little things. If you can just find a little way to make someone's day just that little bit better, those are the things that change the world, that make an impact. Yeah, I agree. And I think if you can always try to just help others when they need help. And it doesn't have to be massive. It could be just helping someone get a job or help them with their resume or just helping them. So I think that that's important. And again, I try really hard to explain that to my kids that it's important to always be kind. I think they're getting better at it. I think with you as a Mum I think they'll probably have it covered. I'm pretty confident. Look, I want to have a chat with you about the rocket round because rocket rounds fun times and it's always learned something about books and cats and dogs.
(01:02:21):
So what is your favorite book?
Kylie Sprott
Wuthering Heights. Wuthering Heights. I love book.
Lauren Karan
I haven't read that one.
Kylie Sprott
Oh my God, you have to read that book. Is it kind of a relax on a Sunday afternoon and just indulge the book kind of book? It is such a dark book because it's Emily, is it Emily Bronte I think who wrote it. But it's got passion and it makes comments about the class system. But forbidden love ghosts, it's all sorts of stuff in there. But it's a really great book one, it's one of those things that it's, I think it's really interesting to read, but it's also, I personally love it. I think it's a great story. And I don't find that any of the film adaptations of that book have ever done it justice. But anyway.
Lauren Karan
Alright, I'm going to read that one.
And favorite holiday destination?
Kylie Sprott
Scotland Done. Beautiful.
Lauren Karan
Cats or dogs?
Kylie Sprott
Dogs.
Lauren Karan (01:03:16):
No cats except Allison and her cat. Roger. Shout out to Allison with Roger the cat.
Lauren Karan
Coffee or wine.
Kylie Sprott
Can I have both?
Lauren Karan
Yeah. Yeah, both. Yeah. I like to try and make people choose, but there's been many people that have declined that question.
White Christmas or Summer Christmas.
Kylie Sprott
I actually like both as well, but I think at the moment I've got this real thing going on with Scotland's. Probably white Christmas, but I do like having Christmas in Australia as well. But probably if I had to choose between the two, it'd be White Christmas. White Christmas.
Lauren Karan
And what makes you feel like you are home?
Kylie Sprott
Being with my children.
Lauren Karan
And some of the podcasts you're listening to right now.
Kylie Sprott
So obviously yours.
Lauren Karan
Oh, thank you. Thanks Kylie.
Kylie Sprott
And actually also I know this sounds kind of sad, but I don't really listen to too many podcasts.
Lauren Karan (01:04:01):
Neither do I but don't tell Gil I'm actually a music person.
Kylie Sprott
So I think if I'm ever listening to anything, it's usually music. But people send me stuff about podcasts all the time, so I have got a little backlog there that I try to download when I'm on the plane. The most recent one was something from Goop. Yeah. Yeah, I know.
Lauren Karan
And what music do you love to listen to?
Kylie Sprott
Look, I have a very broad range of music tastes and so everything from, gosh, right back to the Rolling Stones and Elvis and all those things right back in the fifties and sixties. I like all that stuff right through to today. And so my daughter would be very proud to know that I'm a fan of B T s since her making me watch B T Ss over and over again. And she went to watch the Black Pink concert recently in Sydney.
01:04:45):
I didn't go to that, but I do also, the Dandy Warhols comes to mind. Oh no, they're great. And I love going to see music actually. So this last year, Ruby and I have both been to see Ks and Roses. Oh, cool. I know. It was pretty hilarious. But also Coldplay. I love Coldplay. I love Coldplay too. And I've actually just introduced Ruby more recently to U two. She's into U two now, which is a bit more vintage from her perspective. But yeah, broad range of different music tastes. What do you think it's that you love about music? Well, I used to play a lot of instruments, so I used to play, look at your face. I used to play the cello and the flute and the piano, but not all at the same time.
Lauren Karan
Nice. My son plays the cello, he's playing the cello.
(01:05:34):
Kylie Sprott
It's such a beautiful instrument. I was watching the strings concert and I was like, you couldn't wipe the smile on my face. Beautiful. Yeah, I think the sound of the cello is so much more beautiful than the violin or the double bass. I love the cello. Yeah, I really loved playing it, but that's a long time ago now. I haven't played it for a while. I'm so glad it was the cello, not the recorder. I won't lie. When we first playing the cello, I said, oh, thank goodness I still have my recorder. Do you? When I was in primary school, yeah. It's in my drawer at home. I can still play. Mary had a little lamb on that thing. I know. I did the other day Skills.
Lauren Karan
Skills you didn’t know Kylie had. If we ever have a bonus episode where everyone plays their instruments, you can come and bring your recorder. (01:06:12):
It'd be great. Look, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
Kylie Sprott
You're so welcome. Thank you so much for inviting me.
Lauren Karan
Loved chatting with you. Just so much that you've shared. And I really love that you weren't afraid to be authentic and speak personally about your experiences that really resonates with people.
Kylie Sprott
Yeah, well I think everyone's unique. Everyone's got their own story, haven't they? And I think also it's important to speak openly about some of those things because a lot of people have experienced them. And I write about a lot of those things. And I only ever write about things that I am actually interested in or have experienced or have some kind of need to express. So I'm not one of those people who writes about any topic that's really topical right now. It's always just about something that I find interesting. And I think that when you're like that, you tend to find other people who appreciate that because something in there that resonates for them.
Lauren Karan (01:07:01):
Yeah. Tell us how we can support you then. How can we learn more about your writing? How can we connect with you or learn more about the work that you do? So actually my website is actually getting revamped and will be relaunched on Monday. So there'll be a new version of the website on Monday. But all my articles are up there, so I think they've met 26 or 27 articles now. Yeah. Awesome. And I'm starting to develop a whole bunch of eBooks actually. So that's something that I'll be launching at some point, but just haven't had a lot of time lately. But that's where you can go to kylie spot.com and find all that stuff there and we'll make sure we add a link, obviously for people in the episode and things like that so that they can access it as well. Cool. Sounds great. And maybe even we'll have a chat. We can have a link to your ebook or something at the end of the episode. Sounds. What if I've got one of them ready to go? Yeah. De happy to share that with the listeners. Yeah. Thank you so much for coming on. It was great. Thanks Carly. Thank you. That was fun.
Outro (01:07:54):
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