If you’re ready to create a podcast that will align you with experts in your industry, position yourself as a trusted leader and create another source of revenue for your business you’re in the right place. Podcasts for Profit will help you create and grow a podcast that cuts through the noise of social media and speak directly to your target audience. Stop letting the algorithm determine your social marketing strategy. Stop letting trends dictate the kind of content you’re able to create. Hosted by expert podcast strategist, producer and educator: Morgan Franklin, Podcasts for Profit is your step-by-step guide to creating a podcast that will transform your business, opportunities and life.
Morgan Franklin: If you've
listened to this podcast before,
you might know that my first
corporate job was in the
magical, glamorous and awe
inspiring world of search engine
optimization. That's right, SEO.
I was worried about rankings
before. Worrying about rankings
was cool. And let me tell you,
in 2013 it was so much easier
than it is today. But not to
worry my friend, I have spent
the past decade clawing my way
up the charts on Google, across
social media, Apple, podcasts
and Spotify, and I am here to
tell the tale. In this episode,
we'll be talking about what
rankings are, how they impact
your podcast growth, how to
strategize for your own show,
and, of course, how to actually
start showing up on the charts
and ranking to find the audience
you want to listen to your
podcast. Hello and welcome to
podcast for profit. My name is
Morgan Franklin. I'm a Podcast
Producer, strategist and
educator. This podcast will help
you create and grow a podcast
that cuts through the noise of
social media and speaks directly
to your target audience. If
you're ready to create a podcast
that will align you with the
experts in your industry,
position yourself as a trusted
leader and create another source
of revenue for your business,
you're in the right place. So
what is a podcast chart? Let's
start there, and this might be
old news to you, but let's
buckle in for everybody else.
Apple podcast creator says our
podcast charts reflect the most
popular shows and episodes
available in a given market, and
are designed to help people
discover what to listen to next.
Okay, great. We love a vague
explanation. Basically, the
chart is exactly as you'd think
of any other chart. So let's say
Billboard top 100 we're all
pretty familiar with that. Those
are the top 100 songs played or
streamed in any given period of
time. So a podcast chart is
exactly like that, but as you're
gonna see throughout this
episode, not as straightforward
when we're talking about podcast
rankings, that can mean so many
different things, and I think
that's part of what makes it so
confusing for podcasters,
because when I say ranking, that
can mean ranking in a category,
it can mean ranking all shows
ever. It can mean ranking for a
specific platform, like, let's
say Apple podcasts or Spotify.
It can mean ranking globally
using all different points of
data from all different hosts
and platforms. It can mean so
many different things. So when
you're trying to figure out what
your own podcast rankings are,
or the goals that you want to
achieve around your rankings,
it's important for you to know
what podcast ranking that you're
actually looking at, and so for
this reason, I'm going to be
specifically pointing out each
part of this episode, what we're
talking about and how it
actually works. Let's start with
Apple podcasts and Spotify
charts and how to rank on these
platforms. The first thing is
going all the way back, way, way
back when you set up your RSS
feed and started this podcast
that you have, what did you put
as the categories for your
podcast? And does that actually
reflect what your podcast is
about? This always has to be
step one, and it's very
important, no matter what, you
need to do some serious
reflection on your podcast and
what kind of content that you
are making, and did you pick the
best categories that will speak
to the content you're putting
out on your podcast? Here are
two of the biggest problems.
First, you're like me, and your
podcast doesn't really have a
category. So for example, this
podcast that you're listening to
right now about podcasting? Yes,
we know that, but that's not a
category. There is no category
about podcasting or content
creation or anything like that.
So I had to put it under
marketing and business. And even
though it does encompass those
things, right? It's really just
the best that I can do, and that
most of us are going to have to
figure that out along the way.
What is the second best option
that I have for my category,
since my category doesn't exist?
The second problem is, you're
thinking, Morgan, my podcast is
about everything. How could I
possibly pick a category. So for
me, this is one of the biggest
problems across the board that
podcasters face. If you can't
even narrow down what your
podcast is, how can you put it
into a general category? How
will you ever be able to find
your target audience with that
strategy? So if you're thinking
either of these two things, I
have one on one coaching where
you can work with me that can
help you figure this out. This
is exactly the kind of thing
that I work with podcasters on
every day, my information will
be in the episode description.
Okay, so after you pick the most
relevant category to your
podcast and the content that
you're putting out with your
podcast, this is when the real
work is going. To happen because
rankings are determined by a few
different things, one of the
most prominent being listener
engagement. Now what's listener
engagement? It's someone that is
coming to your podcast, maybe
for the first time, listening to
80% of an episode, subscribing,
leaving a review. When people
are consistently interacting
with your podcast, it is telling
the algorithm. This is a good
podcast, this is a relevant
podcast. That's how they're
determining the ranking of the
category that you picked. Now
Apple podcasts and Spotify are
never going to tell you what the
secret sauce is and how you can
rank number one. That's how they
get people to buy ads and spend
money and keep working on their
podcast forever, but I will tell
you the two biggest factors
playing into these rankings are
new subscribers or followers,
however you want to define that,
and five star rankings. And I
know that there's a lot more
that goes into it than that, but
that will make a huge impact on
where you're ranking currently
and where you show up on the
chart. But that's not all. I
mean, don't you wish that it was
that easy, that you could just
keep getting an influx of new
followers, and you would always
be ranking and I mean, that is
part of it, but here's where SEO
manager Morgan is coming in to
talk about keywords. So what are
keywords? Keywords are words and
phrases that your future
listener will type into a
platform search to find your
show or episode. So stay with
me. So let's say, for example,
this podcast that you're
listening to right now, podcast
for profit. Someone might be
searching for how to start a
podcast, or generally something
about podcasting, or how do I
rank on Apple podcasts, and if
my episode shows up first and
they click on it and listen to
it and then maybe hopefully
subscribe and rank it five
stars, that is perfect. That's
amazing. That's what the ranking
algorithm wants to see. So how
do we make sure that this
happens for you, and that when
your future listener is
searching for the words that you
were trying to rank for the you
are showing up. Personally, I
think that you should focus on
these three things. First, the
episode title. If the episode
title isn't hooking people in,
you are never gonna get past
that. You need relevant keyword,
rich, interesting titles. That
last part, interesting titles,
don't just ask chat GPT to do
this. I hear so many podcasting
gurus telling their clients to
just, oh, just chat GPT. Tell it
to SEO Optima, no, do not do
that. I always tell my clients,
if there is one thing we are not
going to do it is use chat GPT
for our titles. And why is that?
It's because you are telling
your future listener that you
can't even be bothered to write
a five to 10 word title without
AI. And how are you expecting
them to trust you with their
most valuable resource of all,
their time, their time to listen
to this podcast. So take a
little bit of effort and think
about what interesting titles
would actually bring someone in
to listen to your podcast, and
what they would actually be
searching for. Put effort into
your titles. Work backwards from
your titles, if you have to. So
basically, if you need to write
all your titles and then record
the episodes after that. That is
totally okay. That's what I do
every month. So I'll work
through what my four episodes of
the month are gonna be based on
what people are asking me,
what's trending, what keywords
are ranking, and then from
there, I record the episode
based on the research of the
titles. Good content takes time
and effort, I think, in the era
of short form media, that that
can be lost on a lot of
creators, but it really does
matter, and your audience can
tell the difference. The next
thing is just focusing on your
general search engine
optimization that is going to be
making sure that your episode
descriptions and transcriptions
are aligned with this episode,
and again, what that person that
you want to listen to your
podcast might be searching for.
I see so many podcasters just
leaving everything on the table
by not doing their episode
description correctly, and I
personally think that this is
where you can use AI and chat
GPT and any AI assistant like
that. I mean, think about how
many people are really going to
read an episode description,
other than just to find a link
or something like that. Not very
many. I'd be doing everything
possible to get those keywords
in there and make sure that when
someone is searching for
something, either my podcast is
ranking first and popping up, or
it is that specific episode that
is ranking first. So why do
podcast rankings really matter?
I should have probably started
the episode with this, but I
think it's important to talk
about why we're doing all of
this in the first place, and why
it matters if your podcast is
ranking on the charts the. First
of all, it makes it much more
likely that new listeners will
find you. So anyone that's
looking for a new podcast to
listen to at any given genre,
this gives them the opportunity
to find you, if they're just
scrolling through the charts
again, like we talked about a
minute ago, when someone is
searching for something specific
you want to be that podcast
episode or podcast that pops up
and is being the most compelling
to the listener. New listeners
for podcasts usually come to us
one of two ways, and that's
either a personal recommendation
or from searching natively. So
that means in Spotify or Apple
podcasts, or wherever you listen
to podcasts, looking for
something to listen to, looking
for something specific. So if
you are ignoring the rankings
and thinking, Oh, that's just
vanity, that's just a vanity
accomplishment, you're not
putting into perspective how
much showing up on these
platforms actually matters to
finding new listeners. I mean,
that's half of the listeners
that you would be getting. There
is one vanity ranking that I
want you to know for your own
information and being able to
keep track of the progress that
your podcast is having. So
that's your global rank for all
podcasts. You can find this on
Listen notes.com I'll have that
in the episode description.
You'll go to that website and
just search for your podcast. It
should give you a listener score
out of 100 and your global
ranking. So that'll be a
percentage if you don't yet have
a ranking, is because you are
not yet in the top 10% of
podcasts globally. So I'd start
by making that my first goal. If
you don't see your global
ranking or what your listener
score is, start there. Start by
saying, Okay, I want to be in
the top 10% of podcasts, so I
can keep track of this, and so I
can work towards getting in the
top 1% or the top point 5%
whatever that might look like
for your goals in your podcast.
But make sure that you are
keeping track of that, so you
can see how many people are
listening to your podcast in
comparison to everyone else.
Like I said earlier, I'll leave
the websites where you can look
at your different rankings in
the episode description. The
second website that I want you
to look at is called refonic.
That is where you can look at
your rankings for Apple podcasts
and Spotify for the categories.
So that is where you will just
go to the website you will type
in your podcast, and it will
tell you all about where you are
ranking in these different
categories and across the globe.
So you might, for example, be
ranking in China, but not in
America. So go ahead and go and
check that out. And there are
several different podcast
platforms like, I'm thinking of
good pods specifically, where
they have their own ranking
system, and you can just go on
there, make a profile and see
where you are ranking. I'd
encourage you to do that and
make some kind of note where you
are tracking this information,
especially if you ever plan to
monetize your podcast, which I
hope that you are planning to
do, that you can have that
information and say, Okay, I
rank in the top 200 for business
podcast on Apple podcast in the
United States, I'm ranking in
the top for the word podcasting.
So let's talk about that really
fast. You need to go into an
incognito browser and search
these different terms that are
associated with your podcast and
see if your podcast is ranking
for any of those words. And if
they are, I probably do this
once a month and just see where
you are. I've not found a
website that will give you these
rankings or this information, so
you'll need to do it for
yourself. But have at least
three keywords at any given time
that you are trying to rank for.
Make sure that you're checking
to see where are you, and then
write that down and keep going
until you are the number one
person ranking for that word or
phrase. If you've just launched
a podcast, or you're about to
launch a new podcast, make sure
that you keep an eye on your
rankings, because you're gonna
have a big boost that first few
days or weeks because you just
launched this podcast, you're
getting all these new
subscribers and ratings. So make
sure to keep an eye on that and
start making your notes from
there. I remember when Kylie
Kelsey launched her podcast, and
everyone was in a total frenzy
because she was ranking above
Joe Rogan. And the whole time I
was just thinking, well, this,
this isn't really, I mean, this
is not a good representation of
how she will be ranking. And
then I think it was like, less
than two weeks later, she wasn't
even the top 50 podcast at all.
It's because that huge influx of
followers and listeners and
ratings and listener engagement
that then subsided and
everything kind of leveled out,
and then she was no longer that
number one position. So make
sure that you're keeping an eye
and keeping perspective on what
is happening with your podcast.
Oh, and by the way, I meant to
mention this up front, but do
not pay for websites like listen
note or refonic. Don't waste
your money on stuff like this.
Podcasting is expensive enough.
Just check in and make sure that
you have a Google spreadsheet or
something like that, where you
are writing down the date you're
writing down what your rankings
are. And remember, this changes
every day. It's very. Volatile.
One day you are going to be
ranking 10th in your category,
and the next day you're not
going to be ranking at all. So
take it one day at a time, keep
measuring where you are and make
your goals from there. Remember,
knowledge is power. If you need
help creating a strategy for how
your podcast will rank on the
charts, I would love to help you
out the information for my one
on one coaching is in the
episode description. If you have
a question, please feel free to
send me a message. My email is
Morgan at Morgan Franklin dot
media that will also be in the
episode description. I'd love to
help you. If I can, please
subscribe to this podcast if you
haven't already, and as always,
I can't wait to listen to your
podcast. Hey, thank you so much
for joining me on this episode.
If you enjoyed the podcast and
you'd like to hear more episodes
like this one, go ahead and
subscribe to the show. New
episodes air every Monday
morning. And if you found this
episode valuable and you want to
help other business owners and
podcasters, will you leave me a
five star review. It helps the
show rank higher in the charts
and brings more entrepreneurs
the information they need to
start making money on their
podcast.