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Art of Spousing is for marriages that what to move from being mundane to becoming masterpiece relationships. Hosts James and Lisa Duvall share truths and lessons learned from their 30 years of marriage and over a decade of teaching, coaching, and speaking on marriage.
James: Hey, welcome back to the art of spousing podcast. Lisa and I are so excited to dive in today's episode because we're tackling something that impacts every marriage communication roadblocks.
Lisa: Ah, that's right. Communication is a heartbeat of a healthy marriage, but let's be honest. It's
James: honest. That's right. Communication is
Lisa: Uh, that's right.
Communication is a heartbeat of a healthy marriage, but let's be honest, it is not always
James: Sometimes we
Lisa: we walk away from conversations feeling frustrated, disconnected, or even confused about how things just got off track and often very emotional. All that. If, if you've ever wondered what just happened in that whole conversation, you're not alone.
James: Hello, and welcome to the artist spousing podcast. We're James and Lisa, and we're excited. You're here with us.
Lisa: If you're just tuning in, our goal is simple to help turn your marriage into the masterpiece it was meant to be. We know that strong marriages don't just happen by accident. They take work, intentionality, and a whole lot of grace.
James: So each week we bring encouragement practical tools and a little bit of fun to help your relationship grow and thrive Let's dive into today's conversation
I want to make sure, you know, about the weekly practice every Monday, we send out an email with a short thought and a practice that you and your spouse can implement during the week we also give updates on new podcast episodes and upcoming events and promotions, you can sign up for the weekly practice by texting the letters AOS to the number six, six, eight, six, six, again, Text the letters AOS to 66866.
You'll be prompted for your email address. And next Monday you'll receive your first installment of the weekly practice.
Lisa: Know what? I have had so many people come up to me and say, this has been so helpful to them. So I'm glad that I thought of this idea and get it out weekly.
James: I'm glad that
Lisa: James, you thought of this idea and you get it out
James: You did. No, we,
Lisa: do. That's great.
James: Okay. So earlier in December we shared an episode, that introduced the idea of maximizing momentum in your marriage. Mm-hmm. And we talked about focusing on five key priorities, Communication, partnership, purpose, commitment, and growth. And if you haven't listened to the episode, I want to encourage you to go back and listen to it. But we talked about those priorities, how they work together like a flywheel, building energy and connection as you invest intentionally in each area.
Lisa: I love it. I'm so excited about this. I'm packing these. We share practical ways to build trust, stay aligned and support each other's growth. One of the key takeaways was how important communication is. It is foundational in holding everything together, if your communication isn't healthy, it is hard to make progress in other priorities.
Communication crosses over to all areas of our married lives. And so when it's not good, lots of things are not
James: why today we're zooming in on communication. Specifically, we want to talk about five of the most common roadblocks couples face when trying to communicate effectively. And of course, we'll give you tools to navigate those challenges so you can grow stronger as a team.
You know what, James, I feel like when we give real life examples, people realize, See, we're
Lisa: See, they're, we're not as bad as they are.
James: screwed
Lisa: No, they are. We are going to give some real life examples, some of our own marriage, mishaps and practical steps we take to improve communication and share them with you. So if you're ready to break through some of those barriers and build a deeper connection, let's get
James: Yeah. So the first roadblock we want to talk about is distracted listening.
Lisa: Hmm.
James: This happens when one or both spouses aren't fully present. You know, maybe one of you is multitasking on your phone or just mentally checked out
Lisa: Yeah, I can, I totally resonate.
I'm cleaning dishes and I'm listening to you, but I'm not listening to you. We've all been there. You're, nodding along saying, uh huh, uh huh. But your spouse can tell you're really tuned out and it leaves them feeling unimportant and unheard. And unfortunately, sometimes we miss a detail that actually causes us not to show up on time or be confused about a calendar invite that causes a lot of havoc.
Yeah.
James: or be confused about accounting, and I think that causes a lot of havoc.
Lisa: there are many times
James: That you catch me being distracted while listening to you talk. Most of the time I can actually recount the words that you said, but to be honest, I'm probably not hearing what you're actually saying, right? you know, there's this interesting verse in James chapter one, verse 19. It says, everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry in that, that verse reminds me that how valuable listening is not just hearing, but actually really paying attention.
With patience and care.
Lisa: Yeah. This is where the five gears framework is so helpful. It reminds us to shift into the right gear for the right moment. If you're in gear four task mode, you might be trying to get things done while your spouse, Lisa is in gear to connect mode
James: another
Lisa: Language around gears in my opinion provides opportunity for us to understand one another better. For example, your gear four and five is totally, which is natural to you, is totally opposite of my gear two and three.
I can go to those gears, those opposite gears. We go to them very easily. This is a tension point for us. Gear two is my natural gear. It does not come naturally to you. And I desire the fullness of my two gear. That means eye contact, the phone is down, verbal communication, body language that says, I'm listening to you, my bride.
I'm listening to you. And honestly, you could probably say the same thing when we are working on a project together and you're in gear five, That is natural to you. It is not natural to me. It is a chore to me. And I personally have to manage my expectations of how you present yourself in second gear.
And you have to manage your expectations of me when we're trying to lock in and do a project. So not only is it a great tool of going, how do we get in the right gears, but it's a great tool of knowing. where your spouse is naturally inclined to and appreciating that and trying to give some respect and empathy in those areas.
James: yeah, because just as much as you need me to be fully in gear two and eye contact and so forth, it can be frustrating for somebody who, one of their natural gears is four or five and you're trying to accomplish something and, um, Your spouse is taking phone calls and talking to the kids and cleaning the dishes and everything
Lisa: too soon, but I don't know.
No, I'm teasing. I'm
James: I'm not saying it was you necessarily.
Lisa: but it's true though. So it is a tool of awareness, honestly, is my whole point and appreciating that and making sure we're ready to lock in that my phone's down when we're in gear five, because we do work together a lot. Yeah.
James: Yeah. So the fix for me is simple but powerful. Just simply shifting the year two, give you, my undivided attention. It's about being fully present when it matters most. Right?
Lisa: And when we're not in those places that we give grace to get there and we're not defensive when we don't do it right. Okay. So this week, try setting aside at least 10 minutes a day to connect in gear two.
No distractions, just focus listening. It could be over coffee, during dinner, or before bed, a walk, whatever works for you. And maybe go back and listen to the episode on five Gears in season one, episode two for a refresher.
James: Yeah, that's Okay, the second roadblock we want to talk about is assumptions and misunderstandings.
assuming we know what our spouse means, Or feels without clarifying can be a major roadblock. We think we're mind readers,
But what we're really doing is creating misunderstandings. You know, a lot of the conflict happens because of what we call assume aside, right? We assume something and then it's just totally wrong.
Lisa: Yeah, you're connecting dots that don't even connect. It's not good or we're not clear and how we communicate. For example, saying, I need your help around the house, but not being specific in what I mean.
leaving you guessing our spouse guessing of What did we actually need when we said we need help around the house? Obviously this shows up in more complex situations, We were recently working with a couple. They are living in a land of misunderstandings and assumptions.
It was so clear to us because we were outside looking in. Years of this land dwelling in misunderstanding and assumptions caused a pile up of offense. they had established a bad habit of believing the worst about each other and intentions. So they were assuming.
James: that
Lisa: That each other meant the worst.
James: Everything that came out of their mouth. Every
Lisa: single thing. Yes, through the reboot process, we began to help them establish foundational tools to begin to back themselves out of this habit. When they realized that they were in it, they could see it as they were talking to us. And then we were able to develop ways that they could back out of this misunderstanding and assumption roadblock.
But you know what, James, you know what assume means. Have you ever heard of that? It makes it.
James: Okay,
Lisa: Okay, so,
James: you know, talking about, assumptions and misunderstandings, another layer of this roadblock is how it often triggers defensiveness. actually defensiveness shows up when one spouse feels unfairly accused or misunderstood.
And instead of addressing the issue, They're just there. Their defense mechanism is to push back. And for example, if you say, you know, you never helped me with the dishes, I might respond. That's not true. I just did them last week. Defense in this can keep us stuck in a cycle of blame and frustration.
Lisa: Right. Yeah. And that's where tools like impact and intent, which is our go to tool and the clear model can help.
Impact and intent helps us approach these moments with curiosity instead of defensive. So for instance, instead of reacting, you could say, I hear that you're feeling frustrated.
was it your intent to say, I don't contribute at all, or are you just overwhelmed right
James: I don't really
Lisa: I know James, we have tools for everything. I just, I just talked to someone and they're like, you and James have tools for all kinds of stuff and I'm like, yes. So I may be over tooling in this moment, but in this area of defensiveness, I love this tool I came across of that. It's no jading.
J A D E and then put apostrophe I N. That's J, but J A D E. Do not justify, argue, defend, or explain yourself. When you come to me with something, I have to resist jading, justifying, argue, defend, explain myself. I can actually apologize for how the situation impacted you.
And, and it wasn't my intent.
And if needed, I may say something like, could I provide some context to that situation?
Which then that allows me to give maybe some things that happened before that, that may explain why, but it still doesn't matter. I'm sorry. It impacted you that way. So if that makes sense, Because defensiveness is such a go to response in marriage. And so we have to have some tools like intent, impact, and, no jading.
And then you're going to help us know another tool.
James: That small shift actually creates space for clarity instead of a defensive response, which goes to the clear model, which basically is to clarify, listen, empathize, ask, and respond. You know that helps us ensure that communication is actionable and constructive. So clarify Start by identifying what you're really feeling and what you need You know vague or generalized complaints like you never help Can be frustrating for your spouse because they don't specify the problem Will provide a path for resolution instead Clarify your feelings and pinpoint what you need for instance instead of saying you never help around the house You Say something more like I'm feeling overwhelmed with the housework, and I'd really appreciate your support Just by simply clarifying your thoughts you help yourself communicate more effectively and avoid unnecessary conflict
Lisa: Yeah, and you know what, even in that, I'm feeling overwhelmed by the housework and I appreciate your support. I actually get specific because I have things that I know that need to be done and you're not going to mind read them.
If you could help me, James, take out the trash, vacuum the floor, and then spray off the back porch, that would be helpful to me. It's those three things. Instead of Me thinking you're going to know exactly what I
James: you got to clarify it,
Lisa: Yeah, that's right
James: And then second thing is you need to listen. Once you've expressed yourself, make space for your spouse to share their perspective. Listening is not about planning response, but truly hearing and understanding their point of view. You want to maintain eye contact, nod, and use phrases like.
I hear you saying that. It sounds like you're feeling, you know, when your spouse feels heard, they're more likely to reciprocate the same understanding,
Lisa: Yeah,
James: the third thing about clear is, empathize. Empathy is about stepping into your spouse's shoes. even if you don't fully agree, try to understand their emotions and say something like, I can see how coming home to dishes might feel frustrating after a long day.
Empathy actually softens defensive walls and creates a safe space for both of you to express yourselves, honestly. Then fourth ask, rather than making demands, frame your needs as a request. Asking fosters teamwork and respect. For instance, instead of saying, why can't you just do the dishes for once?
Try, would you be willing to take care of the dishes tonight so I can have a break? Right? this actually invites cooperation rather than resistance. Finally, you want to respond in a way that aligns with what your spouse has shared.
If they make an effort to, or agree to help express gratitude. Positive reinforcement actually strengthens goodwill and makes your spouse feel valued. For example. Thank you so much for stepping in tonight. It really means a lot to me, you know, respond with kindness. Appreciation keeps a focus on connection
Lisa: You know, the response in all of these situations really establishes communication moving forward and freedom to be, and safety to correspond with each other.
So responding is so critical in the next communication you need to have. Scripture also reminds us to focus on building each other up. Ephesians 4 29 says, Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building up according to their needs. Amen. That it may benefit those who listen.
I love it. This encourages us to use our words to clarify, affirm, and connect, rather than accuse or tear down. So important.
James: So this week we wanna encourage you to practice asking clarifying questions like can you explain what you mean, or how did you feel about that? Or when making requests be specific in direct, right,
Lisa: Right. Love it. Okay. The third row block is emotional escalation. This happens when we let our emotions take over, whether it's snapping and anger, getting defensive, shutting down all together, just leaving the whole room and saying, I'm done talking about this.
James: this is one that I have to really watch out for, you know, you say something I misunderstand or misinterpret it. Instead of pausing, I react emotionally, which only escalates the tension, right?
Lisa: And I have my own set of emotions that contribute to poor communication. Yeah. This is where criticism and contempt can rear their heads. Criticism happens when we attack our spouse's character instead of addressing their behavior.
for example, instead of saying, I'm frustrated that you forgot to take out the trash.
You may say something more critical like this. You're so irresponsible. You never remember anything. Yeah. Big
James: difference, and contempt takes it even further, actually showing up as sarcasm, eye rolling or belittling comments, right?
Contempt can be really damaging because it conveys disrespect and often stems from unresolved resentment,
Lisa: Yeah, it's so, it actually is very sad because you can see how these, when we talk about small, smart choices over time equal success. Small, poor choices over time equal, what do you say, a
James: Accumulated disaster.
Lisa: Here is where we would encourage you to use the tool.
E plus R equals o event plus response equals outcome. Let me say it one more time. E plus R equals o. Event plus response. equals outcome. It reminds us that while we can't control the event, we can control how we respond. If we're feeling critical or contemptuous, we can pause and ask ourselves, what outcome do I want from this conversation?
Instead of reacting in anger, we can choose to respond in a way that fosters connection and understanding. And James, you know, often I feel, and if you think about it, when we're feeling, um, Any negative feeling, whether it's critical or contention, anger, highly emotional, that's not positive. I feel it certainly sometimes in my body, either in my chest or my throat, which are indicators to me,
watch out, Lisa, manage the pause.
And so you can actually feel this. You may actually get hot or your back may hurt or your head may hurt, something like that, but it's a, physical indicator that you're about to blow your stack. Yeah.
James: That's why Proverbs 15 one gives us this practical wisdom says a gentle answer turns away wrath but a harsh word stirs up anger. So when we choose gentleness over harshness and we actually have to pause after the event happens we can actually de escalate a situation the outcome be better with just a gentle word instead of a harsh word.
So we de escalate the situation to create space for a healthier outcome.
Lisa: Yeah. You know, this feels so elementary and so foundational because it is so elementary.
It's so foundational, but these things, these foundational tools actually go right out the door when emotions come in. So
James: So Okay. The fourth roadblock we want to talk to you about is avoiding or controlling conflict. There are two sides of the spectrum. Avoiding conflict. Or trying to control conflict
Lisa: This is gonna get messy.
James: could be I don't know some people dodge tough conversations all together while others dominate discussions Turning them into debates about who's right Both actually can create a lot of tension and disconnection in marriage Yeah,
Lisa: Yeah. Let's talk first about the avoidance approach. One way this shows up is through stonewalling.
This happens when one person completely shuts down either by walking away or given the silent treatment or emotionally withdrawing from the conversation. Because I actually, conquering this, but one of the ways I used to this younger in our marriage was to pout. I would pout and, disconnect from you and maybe punish you all night, and create an atmosphere of tension, of stonewalling.
Um, very unhealthy, right?
James: Yeah. Stonewalling can sometimes feel like self protection, right?
If you're overwhelmed or afraid of making things worse, it might seem like the safest option is to stop engaging. But the problem is it leaves your spouse feeling unheard or rejected, like you just said, right? And the issue stays unresolved.
Lisa: Yeah, exactly. And stonewalling doesn't always mean someone is trying to be difficult. Sometimes it's a response to feeling emotionally flooded, like you don't have the capacity to handle what's going to happen in the next moment. And I totally resonate with that. Even when I'm maybe pouting it, when I used to resort to that, it's just because I didn't know how to move forward.
Yeah. Again,
James: looking at scripture Romans 12 18 gives us wisdom here says if it's possible as far as it depends on you live at peace with everyone. And What this reminds us is that we have a responsibility to create peace in our marriage, whether by addressing conflict with gentleness or taking a break to process emotions before reengaging,
Lisa: So the tool, E plus R equals o event plus response equals outcome helps us recognize when we're overwhelmed and we choose our response that creates a healthier outcome. For example, instead of stonewalling, you could say, I need a break to calm down. let's come back to this in 30 minutes.
That way you're not avoiding the issue. You're just giving your, self space to process. Sometimes I'll go, can we put a pen in this and get back to it even maybe tomorrow, but then that is a time that I'm actually willfully making a choice. I'm not going to pout or sulk or be quiet the rest of the evening.
I know we're going to get to it the next day.
James: And then on the other side of that roadblock is controlling conflict. Mm hmm. This happens when one spouse or the other dominates the conversation, turning it into a debate about who's right or wrong. It shifts the focus away from resolution and onto winning the argument.
And this is probably where I contend to be strong in our relationship, is I can debate an issue and kind of control the conversation,
Lisa: and I actually don't access that kind of information and data as well as you do. So you definitely would win a debate if you started it with me. But, you know, James, you've heard of the, the golden rule.
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Well, in marriage communication, we need to implement The Platinum
James: Ooh, I like that.
Lisa: Treating your spouse the way they want to be treated. If your spouse needs gentleness during conflict, adapt your tone and approach even if you're naturally more direct. Or if you prefer directness, don't dance around the issue, just be clear and honest. I like to say be brief, be brilliant, be gone.
James: right. this week to notice your approach to conflict. If you're shutting down, try naming what you're feeling and setting the time aside to revisit the conversation.
You've heard us talk about the feel wheel. use the feel wheel to clarify your feelings. You know, if you tend to dominate, pause and ask your spouse for their perspective. small adjustments like these can build trust and lead to a healthier resolution.
Lisa: I love it. Okay. So the final roadblock is a lack of appreciation and balance.
when conversations focus only on problems or critiques, it can feel like there's no room for gratitude or connection. And when we try to tackle too many issues at once, it overwhelms the conversation, making it hard to address anything effectively. First Thessalonians says it this way, chapter 511, Therefore, encourage one another.
Build each other up just as in fact you're doing When you make an intentional effort to affirm and appreciate your spouse. We create an environment where people feel Valued.
James: You know, gratitude is such a powerful tool. Thank you. You're welcome. And we need to over leverage it in our marriage relationship A good rule of thumb in gratitude is a five to one ratio. So for every critique Share at least five genuine specific compliments Simple examples of gratitude would be like I love how thoughtful you are with the kids.
I appreciate how hard you're working Thank you so much For a great dinner. I know you put a lot of effort into those things. So the small Pieces of gratitude
leverage gratitude over critique to actually balance it out in a relationship.
Lisa: love that. You know, one in counseling session with one of our teenagers and one of their seasons, the therapist said, This very same thing and I, is that I needed to find more places to celebrate than critique. And I said, but it's really difficult right now. There's not much. And she said, you can find something and you need to get the microscope out and look for it.
So if you're really in a tough time in marriage and you're like, I cannot see it. You can find it, you can find it, but it does need to be genuine. Yeah. Yeah. So another tool is Myers Briggs and Enneagram Insights. I love personality assessments like this to help us gain awareness about ourselves and others.
And if personality differences are causing tension, these type of tools can help you. For instance, if one of you are task oriented and the other are people oriented, you can adjust your communication style to meet right in the middle. Um, If one of you is more thinking and the other is more feeling, then lean into empathy and common ground.
This is actually you and I, James. You're more thinking, I'm more feeling. And we've had to manage this. This is where I personally love the Enneagram as a growth tool for couples. It really helps each spouse to have empathy for the other person. And in our married life, you know, you as Enneagram 8, I have leveraged that. Because as a two, I don't make decisions quickly. I overthink things. Um, I'm questioning every, I have a lot of questions about, is that the right, I just don't have a lot of action. where you have a lot of action. So I've leveraged that and I'm going, cause you'll say, Lisa, what's the worst thing that can happen?
And I'm like, all right, I'm going to do it. And then for you, my people side, you definitely lean in and ask for, Hey, how can I say that? should you read this email?
James: email? Yeah. Yeah. Maybe you should read this before I send
Lisa: That's right. That's right.
James: You know, so this week, as a practical takeaway, we want, you to make an effort to know this five specific things your spouse is doing well and communicate those. Communicate five things. That they're doing well. And if you need to tackle a tough issue, keep it focused on one topic at a time.
we'd also encourage you to go back and listen to a few of our episodes on the Enneagram. I'm going to post several of those, including the interview we had with Jeff and Beth McCord. about the Enneagram, that would be really helpful and put those in the show notes. Okay, so there you have it. There are five common communication roadblocks and some tools to overcome them.
The key takeaway is this. Communication is a skill and with the right mindset and tools you can break through any barrier. We always say that most couples have good hearts, but bad skills. And so today hopefully we gave you some new tools that you can put into practice. And build some skills around in the area of communication.
Lisa: I love that because skills can be developed. Yeah. So remember it's not about fixing everything at one time. Start with one roadblock that resonates most with you and focus on small intentional changes. Have a good discussion about that.
Be ready to say what you need not what your spouse needs to do. Over time, those changes will create real momentum in your marriage and create this fly wheel we're talking about.
James: right. So thanks for joining us on the Artist Spousing Podcast. If this episode helped you, we encourage you to share it with your friends and leave us a review. And don't forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode.
Lisa: Have a great week and we'll see you next time on the artist's housing podcast. Until then, bye
James: bye.