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Spirituality vs Religion: Finding Your Own Path to God | Everything’s Energy Ep-4
Meet the EE System—called a ‘miracle device’ for a reason
Learn more at https://www.eesystem.com/
Meet the EE System—called a ‘miracle device’ for a reason
Learn more at https://www.eesystem.com/
In today’s episode, we explore the resurgence of spirituality, particularly among younger generations. The discussion challenges traditional anthropomorphic views of God, suggesting instead a universal energy that binds all things. They trace the origins of religion through language, allegory, and even the possibility of extraterrestrial influence on early human beliefs. Religion’s tribalistic nature and history of conflict are examined alongside the importance of separating authentic spirituality from power-driven institutions.
Chapters
- (00:24) - - Spirituality's Resurgence After the Pandemic
- (02:36) - - Questioning Religion and Personal Spirituality
- (05:30) - - God, Energy, Religion, and Marriage
- (11:51) - - Bible as Allegory, Aliens, and Anunnaki
- (15:05) - Ancient Civilizations & Alien Influence
- (17:37) - Religion, Tribalism, and Human Growth
- (21:02) - Religion's Monetization & Creator God
- (23:58) - Multi-dimensional Concepts and Certainty
- (26:24) - Source Creator, Ego, and Information
- (32:16) - Religion as Vehicle for Love
Disclaimer (Please Read):
The Energy Enhancement System™ (EESystem™) and the content provided on EE.Show (audio, transcripts, guest comments) are not medical advice. EESystem is not designed to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any illness or medical condition. The information presented is for educational and wellness purposes only. If you have or suspect any medical condition, please consult a qualified healthcare professional.
Creators and Guests
What is Everything's Energy?
Connecting ancient wisdom with cutting-edge technology. Conversations with industry experts where we explore how scalar energy fields and consciousness expansion can unlock human potential through practical applications and real-world insights.
Disclaimer – Please Read:
The Energy Enhancement System™ (EESystem™) and the content provided on EE.Show (audio, transcripts, guest comments) are not medical advice. EESystem is not designed to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any illness or medical condition. The information presented is for educational and wellness purposes only. If you have or suspect any medical condition, please consult a qualified healthcare professional.
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:18:14
Michael
You're tuned into Everything's Energy show, where we talk about everything that is energy. And today we're going down a rabbit hole. That might be a little controversial, but we're going to try and keep it kind of light and fluffy. Spirituality as a whole. I know everyone has their own roots and spirituality from you know, normally it starts as a kid.
00:00:18:15 - 00:00:44:14
Michael
I was personally raised Roman Catholic. If I had to pick one these days, it probably be Buddhism. So the three of us are going to discuss Roland Marino and myself, Michael Scalar, our views on spirituality and how it's resurged recently. And I feel like a lot of people these days are really looking for something outside themselves, especially after the whole disassociate disassociation of the whole, pandemic era situation.
00:00:44:20 - 00:00:50:05
Michael
Ron, what are your thoughts on the resurgence of spirituality, especially among people in the younger ages?
00:00:50:20 - 00:01:12:48
Ron
There is a massive resurgence of Christianity and belief. People are flocking to that. I've actually been to a church in Florida where young people are just in droves. Really finding something there, I think. I think people want to belong to something. You alluded to the fact that the pandemic fragmented us as a population, as a race, and when you're by yourself, you have to deal with yourself.
00:01:12:48 - 00:01:18:09
Ron
And then sometimes you realize that the saddest thing in the world is to feel isolated and feel alone.
00:01:18:14 - 00:01:36:12
Michael
Or or it's a flip side. I mean, you could feel alone or you could go within and find yourself. I think it maybe we had a little bit too much of finding ourself during that time. At a certain point, I think people did some inner work, I hope, and then went back out into the world and look for something a little more fulfilling and community spiritual.
00:01:36:15 - 00:01:42:25
Michael
It does bring that community thing. Marino, what were what were your what were you raised on? Was your background,
00:01:42:30 - 00:01:43:36
Marino
Roman Catholic as well?
00:01:43:42 - 00:01:45:59
Michael
Yeah. So Latin. Yeah.
00:01:45:59 - 00:01:46:58
Marino
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:01:47:02 - 00:01:49:12
Ron
So all three of us, a Roman Catholic, actually. Upbringing.
00:01:49:13 - 00:01:51:40
Marino
Oh, wow. Look at the interesting. Yeah, that's.
00:01:51:45 - 00:01:52:41
Michael
The. Oh, yeah.
00:01:52:42 - 00:02:20:14
Marino
Yeah, yeah, I always, I mean, I used to, my mom would take me on the weekends in the morning. And I remember just sitting there really not feeling connected to what was going on. So there was like my own personal journey, and it was more inward than it was outward. And for me, when I meet people that start speaking about this, that's like my red flag to see if like, they mean the journey that they're on, which is like, is it about them or is it about you kind of.
00:02:20:14 - 00:02:24:18
Michael
Like the personal journey versus what the churches journey might be.
00:02:24:23 - 00:02:37:35
Marino
Right? Right. And I've seen just some people too. It's like they they start talking about their journey, but then they start to superimpose that on you. Right? And then now you're being judged against those standards or whatever it is. And yeah, yeah.
00:02:37:40 - 00:02:39:52
Ron
There's room for one more.
00:02:39:57 - 00:02:44:02
Marino
Yeah. I was like, no, this is not about you, right? You got to look inward and outward.
00:02:44:02 - 00:03:01:11
Michael
So yeah, I, I grew up with a lot of different, Bibles, so to speak, from different religions. And so I would read them all and I remember being like, 4 or 5 with my, my grandma in a, Catholic church. And I'm just saying I'm like, this has got to be the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen.
00:03:01:11 - 00:03:18:30
Michael
Why is everyone here? And I just like, no, I can't with this. But I think there's pieces and spirituality through all religions that have a lot of value, like love thy neighbor. I like the Buddhist philosophies of it's basically just don't be a jerk and be kind to people is very rude. If everyone was just like, okay, I'm just not going to be a jerk.
00:03:18:30 - 00:03:37:08
Michael
I'm trying to be nice to everyone. The society would be great as a philosophical, religions are amazing, so I like to take the approach of spirit you all versus, religious because you know, the spirit is all of us. We're all connected through energy. We're all God, so to speak. And hopefully that's not too controversial for any of the Christians out there.
00:03:37:20 - 00:03:40:33
Michael
Amen. Bro, what was it? How do you feel about that?
00:03:40:38 - 00:03:55:42
Ron
I mean, I align with your viewpoint. The the reality is this world. My belief is it was created by something very conscious, something that is beyond our capacity to understand. And we anthropomorphize on it a little bit too much, in some cases with the organized religions or.
00:03:55:53 - 00:03:56:53
Michael
God in a box. Yeah.
00:03:56:54 - 00:04:03:39
Ron
Correct. Or the idea that it's a big white dude, a beard in the sky, which is kind of how it was introduced to me.
00:04:03:39 - 00:04:05:36
Michael
When I was at dude on the street. So yeah.
00:04:05:41 - 00:04:06:13
Ron
He's got a great.
00:04:06:14 - 00:04:07:59
Michael
Time.
00:04:08:03 - 00:04:29:00
Ron
But I, I very much resonate with the fact that there is a wonderful undertone to a lot of the spiritual aspects, but at some point people start to go deeper and they ask questions that get them challenged. And oftentimes it creates a souring experience where they want to leave. Assuming that all of us have moved away from Catholicism and why is that?
00:04:29:00 - 00:04:50:40
Ron
There was something that didn't resonate. So there's something on one spiritual journey at some point that makes them want to kind of investigate things on their own terms without having boundaries and bumpers be put up as to where they can and can't go, questions they can and cannot ask. But you know, to your point, I believe that we are all of the same creation of connection.
00:04:50:45 - 00:05:20:13
Ron
We're one race of people that is essentially all, like you said, we're all God. It's like God fragmented itself into little soul pieces. So it can I understand itself through the experiences of all that come into this realm and on this planet. And I think if you can be tolerant of that and understand that people are on different places in understanding that journey, but have compassion for where they are, that's the most important thing when it comes to accepting different beliefs that the different belief sets or systems.
00:05:20:18 - 00:05:38:07
Michael
Yeah. No, I mean, we are all the hands, feet, eyes, ears of God, you know, and it's really funny. People like to I remember my grandfather. He was like, oh, there's no aliens out there. Like, God just made humans. I was like, do you understand how vast and big the universe is? He's like, he starts.
00:05:38:07 - 00:05:48:52
Michael
He's like, oh, you know, I'm like ten. And like, do you think God really created just humans on Earth? And we can see other planets and stars? And that was the end of that. So he's just like, good point.
00:05:49:00 - 00:05:51:14
Ron
To go to bed, Michael.
00:05:51:19 - 00:06:13:20
Michael
He's like, okay, actually that's valid. Yeah. But it's funny if you if you look at Earth, let's say you have a telescope or something, from space and you zoom all the way up, we're just a ball of energy. Then you zoom all the way in and you start to see civilization from afar. And it just looks like little, circuit boards or something from afar.
00:06:13:20 - 00:06:32:03
Michael
And then you zoom in and you see the buildings and peoples in the cars. Now, if you can go beyond that, you start zooming in to see the molecules and things like we're back down to energy. So from the start where atoms and energy, which just kind of looks like little balls of energy. So from small to big zoom out, we're we're really just energy.
00:06:32:07 - 00:06:56:29
Michael
So now we're, we're the electrons in the protons that are spinning around here on this level, acting as God, so to speak. So it's it's really fascinating. Like people will bring science into spirituality. It becomes a really interesting topic to think about because we are all energy. God is energy is God is a simplified term that people way beyond, going far back in time.
00:06:56:29 - 00:07:11:42
Michael
They were all just like, well, we need answers to the unanswerable. So they're like, well, we're just going to make God or people maybe had a ayahuasca trip or a mushroom trip at some point, start writing it down. And maybe that's how the Bible came about. That's also debatable. Don't don't like me on fire on the internet. I'm just theorizing.
00:07:11:47 - 00:07:35:00
Michael
But, like, how do you think religion really started? It seemed like with, Catholicism really kind of see more of a metric of control. You know, you had marriage, for instance. Men would run off and be promiscuous if they weren't tied to the way through marriage. I feel like that might have been. Might have been how the religion was like, what we did to get people to marry, because we need the kids to be raised in the proper way.
00:07:35:00 - 00:07:42:23
Michael
And if we don't marry these two people, one's going to run off. So like, what are your thoughts on how did it start and what are your thoughts on that topic there with marriage?
00:07:42:26 - 00:08:10:53
Ron
Oh boy. All right. Can of worms as a married man, can of worms. The idea of how spirituality and religion may have started, I think, is actually connected to the idea of how language is used. Right. Because the most limiting thing in some capacities for explaining is words and language semantics. But you can't capture a concept without putting a symbol around the meaning of something in description.
00:08:10:58 - 00:08:31:03
Ron
So if you're wanting to teach someone about your philosophy of spirituality, you can't do it in a mime show. You can't draw them a picture because everything is an incomplete thought. So I believe the idea of encapsulating the explanation of everything and how it evolved is really how people aligned with the concepts that were given to them via language.
00:08:31:08 - 00:09:02:18
Ron
And there were things that selected for the evolutions of different monotheistic religions. So you have Catholicism, you have Islam, you have Judaism. There's a lot of things that are similar. But then there's divergences of those religions based upon cultural beliefs, geographic locations. And because there are things that are created by man that are evolved and developed by man, there's also the idea, and I was going to get at the things that were inserted in there.
00:09:02:18 - 00:09:26:23
Ron
When a belief set is shared across a large population of people, you get unity consciousness or collective consciousness. And then if you're able to influence the ideologies and the stories and the beliefs that are passed down, you have a concept. You have the modification of belief concept through what we all agree upon. And then you have the continuum of time.
00:09:26:38 - 00:09:37:17
Ron
It's a horrible comparison in terms of the simplicity, but if you play the game Broken Telephone, I never remember that game. So you want to refresh is unbroken telephone.
00:09:37:22 - 00:09:59:39
Marino
Is it's adjusted the telephone of just, passing down a message and then the next person. The next person. Yeah. And I think to your point, it's not even just the message, but maybe like the intention or the ideology that was carried through the narrative of that story that could be misrepresented. Right? Because we can all hear the same story but extract a different narrative from it.
00:09:59:47 - 00:10:20:41
Ron
Exactly. And I think that's what's happened over time, where you've had a modification of the message to either suit, the evolution of the thought processes of the times, more and the more nefarious context. You have an evolution of something that benefits the people who are in the power position of controlling the masses through common, shared, agreed upon belief.
00:10:20:43 - 00:10:43:44
Marino
Yeah, yeah, I like to think of like, you know, all beliefs carry consequences. If you believe something, it manifests in your life and some capacity, some level. Right. Even if it isn't directly, apparent to you in that moment. And I do think, like, in the beginning, maybe there was a good intention of, like, if you believe this, then you behave in this way, that it's actually good for you.
00:10:43:49 - 00:11:06:48
Marino
And at some point, seeing someone seeing, oh, like, these stories create people's behaviors to change instead of directly influencing or working with the people. What if we reconstructed this and now we have power over them right. Something that Doctor Jim Pearson kind of helped me understand was like the Bible because I when I was younger, I struggled with it.
00:11:06:48 - 00:11:23:38
Marino
Just like you. I reached an age where I started questioning everything, and I remember I was in science class and we're learning about, like, the solar system. And I was like, looking at the sun. And I was like, you know, we just learned that you can't have fire without oxygen. So I was like, so how is the sun on fire?
00:11:23:43 - 00:11:41:20
Marino
There's oxygen, you know, and by my teacher told me that it's not fires, it's really hot gas. And it's so hot, like, if you light up and we heat up a nail, it gets so hot that it's bright. I was like, okay. But during that time is when I was like, going to church. And I was like, like, the story just doesn't make any sense, right?
00:11:41:25 - 00:12:05:29
Marino
But talk to your parents kind of talks about it. It's not about the story or whether or not those events occurred. It's whether or not the lesson or the narrative in that story is true. Because if it is true, then the story is real. So if I tell you a story about something that happened and someone did something, if you were to reenact and behave in that same way, will it create the same consequences and if it will, then it's real, right?
00:12:05:29 - 00:12:13:46
Marino
It's a real lesson. And I think that the Bible is kind of a construct of all of these stories that teach us how to be to get that outcome.
00:12:13:51 - 00:12:34:12
Ron
I want to ask you guys about something because I'm glad you brought up the Bible. Have you heard of the idea that the Bible is actually allegory or what? Allegory? So the stories that are being shared are either like veiled messages, or it's something that is actually more along the lines of an obvious thing that's been veiled by the details of the story.
00:12:34:17 - 00:12:47:58
Ron
So if you think of the Old Testament, you talked about aliens, and this is a little rabbit hole. So God came down on the mount, on the mountain to Moses, and he carved in the the what is it, the tablets that the Ten Commandments.
00:12:48:03 - 00:12:48:30
Michael
Yeah.
00:12:48:35 - 00:13:14:21
Ron
So if we're talking about a being that showed up, this is a crazy thought, but might it be an otherworldly being that came down, that was an advanced species or race that came and gave sacred knowledge, higher level understanding that was meant to be given to humanity, passed down through the concept of the Ten Commandments. But the story was because people could not capture the entirety of what the story was.
00:13:14:32 - 00:13:39:42
Ron
God came down. But there's this idea that the gods are actually just the anarchy, the old civilizations that may have colonized Earth long before the advent of modern society. So there's that aspect of the Bible being allegory or the other aspect is if you look at the concept of the idea of Jesus walking on water, if you look at some of the spiritual circles, they talk about water being the representation of the emotion of the planet.
00:13:39:42 - 00:14:05:33
Ron
Water holds memory. So walking on water might be a metaphor for learning to be present and manage your emotions, rather than the physical act of defying the laws of physics by simply walking on water. Know that's something that's kind of come in my world a little bit. Because, like you, I've had this resurgent interest in the Bible, but not to read it, to follow what the book says, because the book is written by man, but.
00:14:05:35 - 00:14:06:01
Michael
To try.
00:14:06:01 - 00:14:20:14
Ron
To figure out and extract the little details like what is being hidden for the astute person to be able to see and understand. They may not have any validation from anyone else, but it's like that's there for you. You know what? Your thoughts on.
00:14:20:14 - 00:14:49:06
Michael
That? No, it's a great topic to bring up because if you go back really far in time, most the oldest known languages and scriptures are probably all based on religion. And that's what meant was meant to survive. To this day, if you go back, it's not articles about, how to make food or there are some like pictures of hunting or stuff, but it's that most of the old, old, old documented historical language scriptures are all on a religious basis.
00:14:49:06 - 00:15:12:47
Michael
So things in the Torah, you and you go back into, Hinduism and Sanskrit as it is one of the oldest is most of the stuff that they're pulling from as a database that was protected long enough or preserved or written in a way that would never die, were religious things. And it's funny because Hinduism, if you look at Hinduism, they have all these blue people, and they have, you know, Ganesh was an elephant.
00:15:12:51 - 00:15:39:03
Michael
They have these, characters that are actually not human by any means, people with multiple arms, you know, so it's really fascinating. Then you have you go to into Egypt, which is another old civilization, and they have, you know, a pharaoh and you have all these other beings that don't look human. So, like, why were people, you know, thousands of years ago depicting, spiritual beings as things that don't look worldly.
00:15:39:03 - 00:15:58:37
Michael
So you do ponder, like, okay, maybe some UFOs came down or crashed. You know, Atlantis is theorized to be possible. We've been an alien civilization. But when you look at some of those same like carvings and things, you find pictures that look like spaceships. I've watched all those documentaries. It's really fascinating. And you're just like, okay, well, when did aliens get here?
00:15:58:42 - 00:16:19:32
Michael
And are maybe are we spinoffs? Like, is our genetics slightly different? And that's why the people are different colors and different sizes and shapes or intellectual, concepts. Is it because maybe aliens came down here and they started breeding with the local inhabitant inhabitants? Maybe we at one point we all actually looked very, very similar. And then they started breeding with the locals.
00:16:19:44 - 00:16:20:30
Marino
Oh, God.
00:16:20:41 - 00:16:42:26
Ron
That's supposedly what, a Hercules is like, right? It's a half man, half god manifestation on this planet. And I think that's a wonderful insight, because you start to look at all of these things, and it moves away from the idea of a religious origin. It's more of a cultural, historical origin. And what I've done in the last few years is, I've tried to find these points of intersection.
00:16:42:26 - 00:17:06:36
Ron
So I like the idea of what's in the Emerald Tablets of Thoth or the Hermetic Philosophy, which I'm really aligned with. And the origins of the Hermetic Philosophy is there was the great Hermes Trismegistus, thrice great. He was the scribe of the gods. So it's like, well, who are these gods that they're referencing? And he was the one that all of the great seekers of wisdom went to find.
00:17:06:41 - 00:17:27:18
Ron
So who was he? What was he? And apparently the information of these disciples of him spread across the globe. And if you look at some of the ancient sites, like there's pyramids everywhere on the planet, everywhere. And do you know what the exact angle of the pyramid is in terms of its relationship to the speed of light? Same.
00:17:27:21 - 00:18:02:34
Ron
It's the same thing. So we're getting a little bit away from religion because I believe in some aspects there is a resurgence of spirituality that is elucidating all of this stuff because there is a rise of consciousness that's happening right now on this planet. And in some cases, religion is a boon and a benefit to that. But in some cases, I think religion is also trying to stop and fight a lot of these things, because with the rise of consciousness and a dissolution of the borders and boundaries of religions, those that benefit from it lose power because people start to get beyond the idea of arguing, my religion's better than yours.
00:18:02:47 - 00:18:32:13
Ron
My God is more just and vengeful or righteous than your God. I think that's where a sticking point is, because humans fighting over religious symbolism is a catalyst to humans fighting over cultural symbolism, land based symbolism. So I believe that these little clues that are part of the history that we're slowly elucidating are meant to be found now, because humanity's rise in spirituality, I think, was actually scripted to be in this timeline that we're in right now.
00:18:32:18 - 00:19:04:36
Michael
Yeah, it's really fascinating because you have, just a core tribalism with, with religion where there, you know, Christianity went through and killed all the witches and tried to kill all the religions. And we went on this crusade to, to bring God to people. That sounds like us. And democracy kind of. But it's a tribalism. It's like people know our religions better and we have more money, and we're going to go kill a bunch of people because we hired all these people and can outfit them and throughout history, religion has been one of the most stifling things because it's stifled science, it's stifled the growth of humanity as well, because so many people died
00:19:04:36 - 00:19:22:58
Michael
in holy wars. And now you see what's going on in the Middle East right now, where Judaism and Islam are battling. And it's kind of like a weird land grab. I'm sure it's far deeper than that, but it doesn't really seem to be over. Spirituality. It seems to be over more of a who's right or wrong, and there is no right or wrong.
00:19:22:58 - 00:19:39:14
Michael
It takes two people to fight. You realize that you have a problem and you say, we need to figure this out. Otherwise you're just butting heads and lives are destroyed and you know, the missiles fly and then other people get involved and they're like, well, we're going to make money off these missiles flying. So, you know, spirituality has been this battle for a long time.
00:19:39:14 - 00:19:50:54
Michael
And it probably all stems from a core value like Ten Commandments. Maybe a UFO came down, said, thou shalt not kill, but thou shalt not kill. But if it's in the name of God, we can kill.
00:19:50:59 - 00:19:52:56
Ron
And that's why martyrdom is rationalized.
00:19:52:58 - 00:20:15:12
Michael
Yeah, it's a rationalizing spirituality, and it's just really strange that you would have we be unlimited beings, but we need to be in a box. Now is the back to philosophy. You have the, or the, the Ten Commandments and say things like thou shalt not kill. That is philosophy. Basically, it's like, you shouldn't do this because it's wrong.
00:20:15:17 - 00:20:18:03
Michael
It's not. You need to believe something. It's like, that's just wrong.
00:20:18:08 - 00:20:18:38
Ron
It's not.
00:20:18:50 - 00:20:26:14
Michael
Like core values of humanity is is really what the Ten Commandments are. Thou shall not bang my, my, neighbor's wife like, okay.
00:20:26:14 - 00:20:28:02
Ron
Let's let's the updated 2025.
00:20:28:02 - 00:20:44:50
Michael
Terminology like that. I like we're going to go with the Yolo commandments. You know, I think it should be modernized and taken out of Christianity because you don't don't bang other people's, significant other don't kill people. Be a decent human being. Maybe you do a little charity work on the side if you're having a good day.
00:20:44:50 - 00:21:03:06
Michael
If you're having a bad day, maybe you deserve a little charity, but you know the direction that I think it was a good intent. I think it started off as we need maybe aliens, you know, like we need to help humanity just get on a guy track. Like, here's your scope of work. Don't kill each other. Be decent.
00:21:03:06 - 00:21:04:08
Marino
Number one being.
00:21:04:12 - 00:21:21:11
Michael
Doesn't matter who you believe in. Then someone was like, wait, this is powerful. People are believing it. They're like, maybe we can monetize this. And then a religion starts and then another religion. Throughout history, I forget how many religions are, but you know, you have the Greek gods, you have the Hindu gods, you have the Christian god. You have Islamic.
00:21:21:15 - 00:21:30:16
Michael
No. That just they have just one. Two. So you had multiple confined down to an isolated one. Maybe we we should have that which we have multiple because it should. Maybe we should have known.
00:21:30:21 - 00:21:53:02
Ron
Well, it's depending upon how you're defining the concept of a god. Right. So there's creator God which there has to be one creator of this. This whole thing could be being inside an actual being in and of itself. You know, the whole idea of Hermeticism. It's a thought in the mind of God reality. So maybe we're just a neuron of a gigantic being, a little thing in a neuron of a gigantic being.
00:21:53:16 - 00:22:14:18
Ron
But it's a complex enough structure to how is the entirety of a perception of dimensional reality that we're in dimensional reality? Because this is the third dimension that we're in. It's agreed upon. I mean, there would have to be a second and a fourth, maybe a fifth and a sixth, or else why would we call this a third dimension, unless we're just using the concept of volume to define an entirety of existence.
00:22:14:18 - 00:22:35:15
Michael
Well, here's, here's this and you're maybe we are literally all one and part of some other giant body. And we're like the mitochondria, they're running around and we're having a podcast, but we're really just mitochondria. Seven layers above us, but we're literally inside some giant being, and we're just like, we're the workhorses of this giant being on an energetic level.
00:22:35:20 - 00:23:05:26
Ron
You see how how limited our capacity is to theorize things outside of concepts that we can generate the thought exercises. And I think it's fascinating right now, because I'd love to know what you guys think. Do you think humanity is on a good trajectory in terms of where it's going with its relationship with spirituality? Do you think we're removing potentially, a combination of some people are moving away from the idea of religious control, governance over our spiritual beliefs.
00:23:05:30 - 00:23:17:20
Ron
And then at the same time, people are seemingly flocking to wanting to be back into a core group of belonging to something. How do you see that moving forwards over the next 5000, 150 years?
00:23:17:20 - 00:23:36:12
Michael
Well, I've ever everyone has a God complex and they think they can just lone wolf the world. Then you know they're going to run into issues versus I feel like a lot of people are looking for community, but then the community is structured in a way where it's trying to confine and control. So there's a constant push and pull of our human nature.
00:23:36:12 - 00:23:52:44
Michael
Is tribalism like we want to get together and interact with each other and the community in one way or another. But then some of these constructs are literally like, well, you can be in this community, but you need to wear a button up shirt and really shiny black shoes and comb your hair correctly and show up every Sunday and use that.
00:23:52:44 - 00:23:54:46
Michael
They'll be like, something's not good for me.
00:23:54:51 - 00:23:57:02
Ron
Let's put football's on something.
00:23:57:06 - 00:23:59:39
Michael
Whatever it is. Yeah. So what's your thoughts, Mario?
00:23:59:47 - 00:24:07:18
Marino
Yeah. I had a thought earlier of something that you said. Forgot. Oh, no. What was it?
00:24:07:18 - 00:24:08:36
Ron
Come on. It'll come back.
00:24:08:36 - 00:24:09:17
Marino
Come. It's come.
00:24:09:17 - 00:24:16:42
Michael
In. I can hit you in the head. Maybe the help or not, God will hit you in the head. Ram.
00:24:16:47 - 00:24:19:48
Ron
Come on. Oh. Up there. Okay. Yeah. There we go. Got it.
00:24:19:53 - 00:24:31:33
Marino
Multi-dimensional, understanding certain concepts and how they're, like, beyond us. Right? Because everyone wants to. We have this need of certainty, and everyone wants to understand everything all of the time, in its absolutes.
00:24:31:38 - 00:24:32:11
Michael
All at once.
00:24:32:11 - 00:25:00:14
Marino
All at once, in this moment. Tell me right now you have five seconds. Carl Sagan has this great demonstration where he takes a tesseract and he's like, a tesseract is a three dimensional kind of cross section of a fourth dimensional object. In the very same way, if I had a carrot and I shined that carrot through this two dimensional plane, you only see the circle that's, like, so small, and then it gets big.
00:25:00:19 - 00:25:22:44
Marino
So if you're a two dimensional being on this table, you only see a circle, right? And you don't understand what that third dimension is or anything like that, in the very same way as in three dimensions, we can't fathom the fourth dimension or what this object looks like in the fourth dimension. And so to think that you can understand something that exists beyond this dimension is just like, right?
00:25:22:44 - 00:25:36:10
Marino
And I've learned to like, accept this and just to think there are parts and constructs of things that make sense to me and I can make peace with and also understand that there are things bigger than me that I don't understand, but it is what it is.
00:25:36:10 - 00:25:51:27
Michael
I think that's where the whole religious and god concept came, because if you go back in time, there was no internet. People were very simple and they were like, like, I have so many questions. And and people just go, well, go to church and I'll answer everything. So what is the meaning of life? God, how was I? How was I birthed?
00:25:51:41 - 00:25:59:27
Michael
God? Why is the sun and moon rise? God, it's like just a simplified okay, we don't know how to answer these, so. God.
00:25:59:32 - 00:26:04:17
Marino
What about when I ask the question? Yeah. What's the question you asked God?
00:26:04:22 - 00:26:06:03
Ron
Or it's God's will.
00:26:06:08 - 00:26:08:20
Michael
That's a theme for sure.
00:26:08:21 - 00:26:29:46
Ron
Yeah. And when you get into a debate with someone and they uttered that statement, the debates done, regardless of how much more material you have, because that's the bumper to where that person's willing to go. And it's interesting because theoretically, it can't be the wrong answer in some context. Meaning at some point you're going to run out of explanations because it's going to come from source creators.
00:26:29:46 - 00:26:29:59
Michael
So you can.
00:26:29:59 - 00:26:30:29
Marino
Tell.
00:26:30:33 - 00:26:39:41
Ron
It's God ultimately. But the human ego has such a strong desire to own the idea and the information and to be able to put borders around it and.
00:26:39:43 - 00:26:40:55
Marino
Define it.
00:26:41:00 - 00:26:58:36
Michael
From different ways. You take a look at beliefs. So if I believe something so strongly, I know it as a fact, because I've taken it from a source of authority, like a church. Who's been around longer than any human and there's well no, the church says this, it's really interesting here topic because I've had a lot of conversation and I don't be argumentative.
00:26:58:36 - 00:27:20:40
Michael
I was just like let's have a discussion about this. And you do typically reach a point where they get flustered because you're now pushing into their belief systems, these bricks of information that they know as fact because they've labeled them as fact. And you start asking questions and they start to get pained and you can see it on them uncomfortable, and they're like, don't answer, don't do I can't engage.
00:27:20:45 - 00:27:36:47
Michael
You push me. And I don't want to take sides on politics, but you have these sides of like, well, no, I believe this is right or no, I believe this is right. You're both wrong because you shouldn't be arguing. You should be having a discussion. And that's where people foster a lot of enlightenment. Or maybe a God concept.
00:27:36:51 - 00:28:02:54
Michael
Enlightenment occurs through discussion. Because if I don't know something or something I know is wrong, the only way I'm going to delve out what is truth is by having a conversation, not which is one person, but maybe many people. And then you group think it is like everyone says, two plus two is two. At some point you're going to find someone that will say something like this two plus two is two in the paper equation, but two plus 2 or 2, even my math is bad.
00:28:02:57 - 00:28:03:50
Ron
There you go.
00:28:03:55 - 00:28:22:41
Michael
That's one is two is my point. But at a certain point, if you have one plus one and someone maybe in atomic science says one plus one is two on paper. But if you look at the atomic mass, they were weighing two things, and it's one ounce, and one ounce is one ounce and one ounce, always equaling two ounces.
00:28:22:45 - 00:28:47:12
Michael
Now here, here's the break. It's not because there's never going to be a perfect cast of something on atomic level that weighs precisely one ounce when you go down decimal points in to say, nano. So there would be your argument of how well we broke broken a cycle of information, because while you believe it says that in actuality, if you want to get nit picky, it actually eats.
00:28:47:17 - 00:28:48:57
Michael
It was something else.
00:28:49:02 - 00:29:08:30
Marino
Yeah. I think like any contacts or any problem you talk about, you speak of them in challenges and affordances. Right. So there's like a certain amount of information that you need to discuss. And it only works in that domain or scope which is the same as like Newtonian physics versus quantum physics right there. They live in their realm.
00:29:08:30 - 00:29:15:12
Marino
And as soon as you try to apply one to the other, it just doesn't work. And yeah, to your point, to.
00:29:15:17 - 00:29:19:31
Michael
That's like religion. Like they just don't work together the same thing, but they're not compatible.
00:29:19:31 - 00:29:40:47
Marino
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that concept that you were touching on, there's this great book called, Crucial Conversations, and there's a strategy in communication for when you are in dialog with someone and there's conflict and it's called any meaning to the pool. Because if you're trying to just to win, it's very combative. But if you both agree to add meaning to the pool, then you'll get clarity.
00:29:40:47 - 00:29:57:09
Marino
It's like, oh, that's what you meant, okay? And you would have never gotten to that information if you continued down that path of just trying to win or telling them that they're wrong or anything like that. And that's ultimately how you come to a consensus. And an agreement is by understanding what you mean from like it's entirety.
00:29:57:14 - 00:30:17:11
Michael
That's really the thing with religion these days is so many people just don't know what it means, or they don't like the control mechanism. But there are always great little tidbits in every religion out there. They have great takeaway information. Love thy neighbor is one like love everyone around you like there's no reason to be hateful. They did you wrong.
00:30:17:25 - 00:30:36:38
Michael
There's forgiveness that's also part of religion. I think we're probably running up on time here. So you guys have any last bits of meat, maybe some takeaway of your own favorite quotes, even from Emerald tablets or anything like that. My favorite is, becoming the light torch. So you may pass it amongst men.
00:30:36:42 - 00:30:43:45
Ron
All that one over come the light torch you can pass. So basically what that is, how do you interpret that statement in terms of a practical takeaway?
00:30:43:45 - 00:30:54:45
Michael
Become the light. The bright light that when I touch you, you become that bright light and you pass it amongst the next person, 100th monkey got you.
00:30:54:50 - 00:31:01:53
Ron
Favorite quote Merino. If you have one, go. I have to think if there's something that really resonates with me as something that I am, I.
00:31:02:02 - 00:31:08:25
Marino
Am a member of many renown. That are coming to mind right now. Is it in the in the in this context of just any.
00:31:08:30 - 00:31:15:14
Michael
Any, anything, any.
00:31:15:19 - 00:31:26:04
Marino
Good. I like, a good and simple one is, to be rather than to seem.
00:31:26:09 - 00:31:27:16
Michael
I'll do another one if.
00:31:27:21 - 00:31:55:37
Ron
I don't have a specific quote. I would say that the thing that's coming to me to say is I always try to zoom out and look at everything from a, like a 30,000ft satellite view and then down into a microscopic view. And the one message that I got through all of our discussion was that religion, spirituality, whatever, if you look at what it really is, is it's a vehicle for your own personal development and your relationship of getting closer to God in some capacity.
00:31:55:42 - 00:32:18:21
Ron
I think that if you can realize that the my opinion, the most optimal outcome of any sort of journey in a religious or spiritual aspect is a development of getting closer to unconditional love and then taking that as a base frequency and emanating that out. Not to push your way of looking at things on everyone else, but to be in loving acceptance of where everyone is on their journey.
00:32:18:26 - 00:32:38:36
Ron
I think that's where the beautiful convergence of religion, spirituality and the development of where it's going for people is really at least what I'm seeing and what I'm resonating with right now, because there's an old saying in in a certain aspect of energy medicine, the high frequencies can always permeate the low, but the low frequencies cannot permeate the high.
00:32:38:41 - 00:33:06:15
Ron
If you can use religion and spirituality as a vehicle to resonate with those frequencies that exist in love, compassion, acceptance, understanding rather than anger, combat, hate, you know, jealousy, judgment. That is, I think, part of the huge journey of the human being in the human soul as using a vehicle could be Catholicism, Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, or your own spiritual paganism.
00:33:06:15 - 00:33:22:36
Ron
Whatever the journey is, if you can find a way to get closer to God and be a more loving representation of that, which I think is the underpinning of this whole experience that we live in. I know it's not a quote, but that is my resonance of what I want it to share. It's a long quote, unquote. There's a lot.
00:33:22:36 - 00:33:32:02
Michael
Of ways I was absolutely beautiful and a great way to wrap up the show. You guys. And, Namaste.