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Spirituality vs Religion: Finding Your Own Path to God | Everything’s Energy Ep-4

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In today’s episode, we explore the resurgence of spirituality, particularly among younger generations. The discussion challenges traditional anthropomorphic views of God, suggesting instead a universal energy that binds all things. They trace the origins of religion through language, allegory, and even the possibility of extraterrestrial influence on early human beliefs. Religion’s tribalistic nature and history of conflict are examined alongside the importance of separating authentic spirituality from power-driven institutions.

Chapters
  • (00:24) - - Spirituality's Resurgence After the Pandemic
  • (02:36) - - Questioning Religion and Personal Spirituality
  • (05:30) - - God, Energy, Religion, and Marriage
  • (11:51) - - Bible as Allegory, Aliens, and Anunnaki
  • (15:05) - Ancient Civilizations & Alien Influence
  • (17:37) - Religion, Tribalism, and Human Growth
  • (21:02) - Religion's Monetization & Creator God
  • (23:58) - Multi-dimensional Concepts and Certainty
  • (26:24) - Source Creator, Ego, and Information
  • (32:16) - Religion as Vehicle for Love

Disclaimer (Please Read):
The Energy Enhancement System™ (EESystem™) and the content provided on EE.Show (audio, transcripts, guest comments) are not medical advice. EESystem is not designed to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any illness or medical condition. The information presented is for educational and wellness purposes only. If you have or suspect any medical condition, please consult a qualified healthcare professional.

Creators and Guests

Host
Michael Scalar
Host of the Everything's Energy Show by Energy Enhancement System
Writer
Marino
Co-Host Everything's Energy Show
Writer
Roland
Co-Host Everything's Energy Show

What is EEShow (Everything's Energy Show)?

EEShow (Everything's Energy Show) connects ancient wisdom with cutting-edge technology. Long-form, unscripted, in-person conversations with industry experts where we explore how energy fields, alternative medicine, and consciousness expansion can unlock human potential through practical applications and real-world insights.

Disclaimer – Please Read:
The Energy Enhancement System™ (EESystem™) and the content provided on EE.Show (audio, transcripts, guest comments) are not medical advice. EESystem is not designed to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any illness or medical condition. The information presented is for educational and wellness purposes only. If you have or suspect any medical condition, please consult a qualified healthcare professional.

Michael Scalar:

Now you have the Greek gods. You have the Hindu gods. You have the Christian god. You have Islamic multiple confined down

Roland:

to an isolated one. Well, it's depending upon how you're defining the concept of a god. Right? So Yeah. There's creator god, which there has to be one creator of this.

Roland:

This whole thing could be being inside an actual being in and of itself. You know, the whole idea of Hermeticism.

Michael Scalar:

You're tuned into Everything's Energy Show where we talk about everything that is energy. Today, we're going down a rabbit hole that might be a little controversial, but we're gonna try and keep it kinda light and fluffy. Spirituality as a whole. I know everyone has their own roots in spirituality from normally it starts as a kid. I was personally raised Roman Catholic.

Michael Scalar:

If I had to pick one these days, it probably be Buddhism. So the three of us are gonna discuss Roland, Marino and myself, Michael Scalar, our views on spirituality and how it's resurged recently. And I feel like a lot of people these days are really looking for something outside themselves, especially after the whole disassociation of the whole pandemic era situation. Roland, what are your thoughts on the resurgence of spirituality, especially among people in the younger ages?

Roland:

There is a massive resurgence of Christianity and belief people are flocking to that. I've actually been to a church in Florida where young people are just in droves really finding something there. I think people want to belong to something. You alluded to the fact that the pandemic fragmented us as population, as a race. And when you're by yourself, you have to deal with yourself.

Roland:

And then sometimes you realize that the saddest thing in the world is to feel isolated and feel alone. Or it's a flip side.

Michael Scalar:

I mean, you could feel alone or you could go within and find yourself. I think maybe we had a little bit too much of finding ourselves during that time. At a certain point, I think people did some inner work, I hope, And then went back out into the world and look for something a little more fulfilling and community. Spirituality does bring that community thing. Marino, what were you raised on?

Michael Scalar:

What was your background?

Marino:

Roman Catholic as well.

Michael Scalar:

Latin. Yeah.

Roland:

All Yeah. Three of us are Roman Catholic actually upbringing. Oh, wow. That's interesting.

Marino:

That's a coincidence. Yeah. I've always, I mean, I used to, my mom would take me on the weekends in the morning, and I remember just sitting there really not feeling connected to what was going on. So there was my own personal journey, and it was more inward than it was outward. And for me, when I meet people that started speaking about this, that's my red flag to see if like they mean the journey that they're on, which is like, is it about them or is it about you?

Marino:

Kind of

Michael Scalar:

like The personal journey versus what the church's journey might be.

Marino:

Right, right. And I've seen just some people too, it's like, they start talking about their journey, but then they start to superimpose that on you. And then now you're being judged against those standards or whatever it is. Join our calls. Yeah, there's room for one walk.

Marino:

Yeah, I was like, no, this is not about you. You gotta look inward, not outward.

Michael Scalar:

Yeah, I grew up with a lot of different Bibles, so to speak from different religions. And so I would read them all. And I remember being like four or five with my grandma in a Catholic church and I'm just saying, I'm like, this has gotta be the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen. Why is everyone here? And I just like, no, I can't with this.

Michael Scalar:

But I think there's pieces in spirituality through all religions that have a lot of value like love thy neighbor. I like the Buddhist philosophies of it's basically just don't be a jerk and be kind to people. It's very rude. If everyone was just like, okay, I'm just not gonna be a jerk. I'm trying to be nice to everyone.

Michael Scalar:

Society would be great as philosophical religions are amazing. So I like to take the approach of spirit you all versus religious because the spirit is all of us. We're all connected through energy. We're all God so to speak. And hopefully that's not too controversial for any of the Christians out there.

Michael Scalar:

Amen. Roland, how do you feel about that?

Roland:

I mean, I align with your viewpoint. The reality is this world, my belief is it was created by something very conscious, something that is beyond our capacity to understand and we anthropomorphize on it a little bit too much in some cases with the organized religions or God

Michael Scalar:

in a box.

Roland:

Correct. Or the idea that it's a big white duded beard in the sky, which is kind of how it was introduced to me when I

Michael Scalar:

saw that dude on the street. So.

Roland:

Yeah, he's got a great son. But I very much resonate with the fact that there is a wonderful undertone to a lot of the spiritual aspects, but at some point people start to go deeper and they ask questions that get them challenged, and oftentimes it creates a souring experience where they want to leave, assuming that all of us have moved away from Catholicism. And why is that? There was something that didn't resonate. So there's something on one's spiritual journey at some point that makes them want to kind of investigate things on their own terms without having boundaries and bumpers be put up as to where they can and can't go, questions they can and cannot ask.

Roland:

But to your point, I believe that we are all of the same creation of connection. We're one race of people that is essentially all like you said, we're all God. It's like God fragmented itself into little soul pieces. So it can understand self through the experiences of all that come into this realm and on this planet. And I think if you can be tolerant of that and understand that people are on different places in understanding that journey, but have compassion for where they are, that's the most important thing when it comes to accepting different beliefs, the different belief sets or systems.

Michael Scalar:

Yeah. No, I mean, we are all the hands, feet, eyes, ears of God. And it's really funny. People like to remember my grandfather, he was like, Oh, well, there's no aliens out there. Like God just made humans.

Michael Scalar:

I was like, do you understand how vast and big the universe is? He's like, starts to see, he's like, uh-oh, I'm like 10. And like, do you think God really created just humans on earth and we can see other planets and stars? And that was the end of that story. He's just like, good point.

Michael Scalar:

Go to bed, Michael. Like, okay, actually that's valid. But it's funny if you look at Earth, let's say you have a telescope or something from space and you zoom all the way up, we're just a ball of energy. Then you zoom all the way in and you start to see civilization from afar. And it just looks like little circuit boards or something from afar.

Michael Scalar:

And then you zoom in and you see the buildings and peoples and the cars. Now if you can go beyond that, you start zooming into say the molecules and things like you were back down to energy. So from the start, where atoms and energy which just kind of look like little balls of energy. So from small to big zoom out, we're really just energy. So now we're the electrons and the protons that are spinning around here on this level acting as God so to speak.

Michael Scalar:

So it's really fascinating. Like people who bring science into spirituality, it becomes a really interesting topic to think about because we are all energy. God is energy and God is a simplified term that people way beyond going far back in time, they were all just like, well, we need answers to the unanswerable. So they're like, well, we're just gonna make God or people maybe had a Ayahuasca trip or a mushroom trip at some point start writing it down. Maybe that's how the Bible became about.

Michael Scalar:

That's also debatable. Don't light me on fire on the internet. I'm just theorizing. But like, how do you think religion really started? It seemed like with Catholicism, it really kind of seemed more of a metric of control.

Michael Scalar:

You had marriage, for instance, men would run off and be promiscuous if they weren't tied to their wife through marriage. Feel like that might have been how the religion was like, we need to get people to marry because we need the kids to be raised in a proper way. And if we don't marry these two people, one's gonna run off. So like, what are your thoughts on how did it start? And what are your thoughts on that topic there with marriage?

Roland:

Oh boy. All right. Can worms. As a married man, can of worms. The idea of how spirituality and religion may have started, I think is actually connected to the idea of how language is used, right?

Roland:

Because the most limiting thing in some capacities for explaining is words and language, semantics. But you can't capture a concept without putting a symbol around the meaning of something in description. So if you're wanting to teach someone about your philosophy of spirituality, you can't do it in a mime show, you can't draw them picture because everything is an incomplete thought. So I believe the idea of encapsulating the explanation of everything and how it evolved was really how people aligned with the concepts that were given to them via language. And there were things that selected for the evolutions of different monotheistic religions.

Roland:

So you have Catholicism, you have Islam, you have Judaism, there's a lot of things that are similar, but then there's divergences of those religions based upon cultural beliefs, geographic locations, and because there are things that are created by man that are evolved and developed by man, there's also the idea- For idea man. I was going to get it. The things that were inserted in there when a belief set is shared across a large population of people, you get unity consciousness or collective consciousness. And then if you're able to influence the ideologies and the stories and the beliefs that are passed down, you have concept, you have the modification of belief concept through what we all agree upon, and then you have the continuum of time. It's a horrible comparison in terms of the simplicity.

Roland:

But if you played the game Broken Telephone, remember that game? So you want to refresh us on Broken Telephone?

Marino:

Is it just the telephone of just passing down a message?

Roland:

Exactly.

Marino:

And then the next person, the next person. Yeah. And I think to your point, it's not even just a message, maybe like the intention or the ideology that was carried through the narrative of that story that could be misrepresented, right? Because we could all hear the same story, but extract a different narrative from it.

Roland:

Exactly, and I think that's what's happened over time where you've had a modification of the message to either suit the evolution of the thought processes of the times, or in a more nefarious context, you have an evolution of something that benefits the people who are in the power position of controlling the masses through common shared agreed upon belief. I like to

Marino:

think of all beliefs carry consequences. If you believe something, it manifests in your life in some capacity, some level, even if it isn't directly apparent to you in that moment. And I do think in the beginning, maybe there was a good intention of like, if you believe this, then you behave in this way that it's actually good for you. And at some point, seeing someone seeing, Oh, these stories create people's behaviors to change. Instead of directly influencing or working with the people, what if we reconstructed this and that we have power over them?

Marino:

Something that Doctor. Jordan Peterson kind of helped me understand was the Bible. Because when I was younger, I struggled with it, just like you, I reached an age where I started questioning everything. And I remember I was in science class and we're learning about like the solar system. And I was like looking at the sun and I was like, we just learned that you can't have fire without oxygen.

Marino:

So I was like, so how is the sun on fire? There's no oxygen. You know, and my teacher told me that it's not fire. It's just really hot gas. And it's so hot.

Marino:

Like if you light up a we heat up a nail, gets so hot that it's bright. I was like, okay. But during that time is when I was like going to church and I was like, the story just doesn't make any sense. But Doctor. Peterson kind of talks about it.

Marino:

It's not about the story or whether or not those events occurred, it's whether or not the lesson or the narrative in that story is true. Because if it is true, then the story is real. So if I tell you a story about something that happened and someone did something, if you were to reenact and behave in that same way, will it create the same consequences? And if it will, then it's real, right? It's a real lesson.

Marino:

And I think that the Bible is kind of a construct of all of these stories that teach us how to be to get that outcome.

Roland:

I wanna ask you guys about something because I'm glad you brought up the Bible. Have you heard of the idea that the Bible is actually allegory? A what? Allegory. So the stories that are being shared are either like veiled messages or it's something that is actually more along the lines of an obvious thing that's been veiled by the details of a story.

Roland:

So if you think of the Old Testament, you talked about aliens, and this is little rabbit hole y. So God came down on the mountain to Moses and He carved in what is it, the taffy, the 10 Commandments. So if we're talking about a being that showed up, this is a crazy thought, but might it be an otherworldly being that came down that was an advanced species or race that came and gave sacred knowledge, higher level understanding that was meant to be given to humanity, passed down through the concept of the 10 commandments, but the story was because people could not encapture the entirety of what the story was, God came down. But there's this idea that the gods are actually just the Anunnaki, the old civilizations that may have colonized earth long before the advent of modern society. So there's that aspect of the Bible being allegory, or the other aspect is if you look at the concept of the idea of Jesus walking on water.

Roland:

If you look at some of the spiritual circles, they talk about water being the representation of the emotion of the planet, water holds memory. So walking on water might be a metaphor for learning to be present and manage your emotions rather than the physical act of defying the laws of physics by simply walking on water. That's something that's kind of come in my world a little bit, because like you, I've had this resurgent interest in the Bible, but not to read it to follow what the book says, because the book is written by man,

Michael Scalar:

to try

Roland:

to figure out and extract the little details of like what is being hidden for the astute person to be able to see and understand that may not have any validation from anyone else, but it's like, that's there for you. Don't know what your thoughts are Well, on

Michael Scalar:

no, that's a great topic to bring up because if you go back really far in time, the oldest known languages and scriptures are probably all based on religion. That's what was meant to survive to this day. If you go back, it's not articles about how to make food or there are some pictures of hunting or stuff. But it's that most of the old old old documented historical language Scriptures are all on a religious basis. So you get things in the Torah and you go back into Hinduism and Sanskrit, that's one of the oldest.

Michael Scalar:

It's most of the stuff that they're pulling from as a database that was protected long enough or preserved or written in a way that would never die were religious things. And it's funny because Hinduism, if you look at Hinduism, they have all these blue people and they have Ganesh who's an elephant. Have these characters that are actually not human by any means. People with multiple arms, so it's really fascinating. Then you go into Egypt, which is another old civilization.

Michael Scalar:

They have a thoth and you have all these other beings that don't look human. So like why were people thousands of years ago depicting spiritual beings as things that don't look worldly. So you do ponder like, okay, maybe some UFOs came down or crashed. Atlantis is theorized to possibly have been an alien civilization. But when you look at some of those same like carvings and things you find pictures that look like spaceships.

Michael Scalar:

I've watched all those documentaries. It's really fascinating. And you're just like, okay, well, when did aliens get here? And maybe are we spin offs like is our genetics slightly different? And that's why people are different colors and different sizes and shapes or intellectual concepts.

Michael Scalar:

Is it because maybe aliens came down here and they started breeding with the local inhabitants? Maybe at one point we all actually looked very, very similar and then they started breeding with the locals.

Roland:

That's supposedly what a Hercules is like, right? It's a half man, half God manifestation on this planet. And I think that's a wonderful insight because you start to look at all of these things and it moves away from the idea of a religious origin, it's more of a cultural historical origin. And what I've done in the last few years is I've tried to find these points of intersection. So I like the idea of what's in the Emerald Tablets of Thoth, or the Hermetic philosophy, which I'm really aligned with, And the origins of the Hermetic philosophy is there was the great Hermes, Trismegistus, Thrice great, he was the scribe of the gods.

Roland:

So it was like, well, who are these gods that they're referencing? And he was the one that all of the great seekers of wisdom went to find. So who was he? What was he? And apparently the information of these disciples of him spread across the globe.

Roland:

And if you look at some of the ancient sites, like there's pyramids everywhere on the planet. Everywhere. And do you know what the exact angle of the Menkaari Pyramid is in terms of its relationship to the speed of light? Same. It's the same thing.

Roland:

So we're getting a little bit away from religion because I believe in some aspects there is a resurgence of spirituality that is elucidating all of this stuff because there is a rise of consciousness that's happening right now on this planet. And in some cases, religion is a boon and a benefit to that. But in some cases, I think religion is also trying to stop and fight a lot of these things because with the rise of consciousness and a dissolution of the borders and boundaries of religions, those that benefit from it lose power because people start to get beyond the idea of arguing my religion's better than yours. My God is more just and revengeful or righteous than your God. I think that's where a sticking point is because humans fighting over religious symbolism is a catalyst to humans fighting over cultural symbolism, land based symbolism.

Roland:

So I believe that these little clues that are part of the history that we're slowly elucidating are meant to be found now because humanity's rise in spirituality, I think was actually scripted to be in this timeline that we're in right now.

Michael Scalar:

Yeah, it's really fascinating because you have just a core tribalism with religion where Christianity went through and killed all the witches and tried to kill all the religions and they went on this crusade to bring God to people. It sounds like US and democracy kind of, but it's a tribalism. It's like people know our religions better and we have more money and we're gonna go kill a bunch of people because we hired all these people and can outfit them. And throughout history, religion has been one of the most stifling things because it stifled science. It stifled the growth of humanity as well because so many people died in holy wars.

Michael Scalar:

And now you see what's going on in Middle East right now where Judaism and Islam are battling and it's kind of like a weird land grab. I'm sure it's far deeper than that. But it doesn't really seem to be over spirituality. It seems to be over more of a who's right or wrong. And there is no right or wrong.

Michael Scalar:

It takes two people to fight. You realize that you have a problem and you say we need to figure this out. Otherwise you're just butting heads and lives are destroyed and missiles fly and then other people get involved and they're like, well, we're gonna make money off these missiles flying. So spirituality has been this battle for a long time. And it probably all stems from a core value like 10 Commandments, maybe a UFO came down and said, Thou shalt not kill.

Michael Scalar:

But if it's in the name of God, we can kill.

Roland:

That's why martyrdom is rationalized.

Michael Scalar:

Yeah, it's a rationalizing spirituality. And it's just really strange that we'd be unlimited beings, but we need to be in a box. Now back to philosophy, you have the 10 commandments and it's saying things like thou shalt not kill. That is philosophy basically. It's like you shouldn't do this because it's wrong.

Michael Scalar:

It's not you need to believe something it's like that's just wrong. It seems obvious. Core values of humanity is really what the 10 Commandments are. Thou shall not bang my neighbor's wife. That's fair.

Roland:

That's the updated 2025 terminology too. I

Michael Scalar:

like we're gonna go with the YOLO commandments. I think it should be modernized and taken out of Christianity because don't bang other people's significant other, don't kill people, be a decent human being. Maybe do a little charity work on the side if you're having a good day. If you're having a bad day, maybe you deserve a little charity. But the direction that I think it was a good intent.

Michael Scalar:

I think it started off as we need maybe aliens came over like we need to help humanity just get on a guide track. Like here's your scope of work. Don't kill each other. It doesn't matter who you believe in. Someone was like, wait, this is powerful.

Michael Scalar:

People are believing it. And they're like, maybe we can monetize this. And then a religion starts and then another religion throughout history. I forget how many religions are, but have the Greek gods, you have the Hindu gods, you have the Christian God, you have Islamic. No, had just one, So you have multiple confined down to an isolated one.

Michael Scalar:

Maybe we should have multiple? Should we have multiple or maybe we should have none?

Roland:

Well, it's depending upon how you're defining the concept of a God, right? So there's creator God, which there has to be one creator of this. This whole thing could be being inside an actual being in and of itself. You know, the whole idea of Hermeticism, it's a thought in the mind of God reality. So maybe we're just a neuron of a gigantic being, we're a little thing in a neuron of a gigantic being, but it's a complex enough structure to house the entirety of a perception of dimensional reality that we're in.

Roland:

Dimensional. Dimensional reality. Because this is the third dimension that we're in, it's agreed upon. That mean there would have to be a second and a fourth, maybe a fifth and a sixth, or else why would we call this a third dimension unless we're just using the concept of volume to define an entirety of existence?

Michael Scalar:

Well, here's a zinger. Maybe we are literally all one and part of some other giant body and we're like the mitochondria that running around and we're having a podcast, but we're really just mitochondria seven layers above us. We're literally inside some giant being and we're

Roland:

just like, we're the workhorses of this giant being on an energetic level. You see how limited our capacity is to theorize things outside of concepts that we can generate through the thought exercises. And I think it's fascinating right now because I'd love to know what you guys think. Do you think humanity is on a good trajectory in terms of where it's going with its relationship with spirituality? Do you think where we're moving potentially a combination of some people are moving away from the idea of religious control, over our spiritual beliefs, and then at the same time people are seemingly flocking to wanting to be back into a core group of belonging to something.

Roland:

How do you see that moving forwards over the next fifty, one hundred, one hundred and fifty years?

Michael Scalar:

Well, everyone has a God complex and they think they can just lone wolf the world, then they're gonna run into issues versus I feel like a lot of people are looking for community, but then the community is structured in a way where it's trying to confine and control. So there's a constant push and pull of our human nature is tribalism. Like we wanna get together and interact with each other and be a community in one way or another. But then some of these constructs are literally like, well, you can be in this community, but you need to wear a button up shirt and really shiny black shoes and comb your hair correctly and show up every Sunday. And you said they'd be like, Sunday is not good for me.

Roland:

Footballs on Sunday.

Michael Scalar:

Whatever it is. Yeah. So what's your thoughts, Marino?

Marino:

Yeah. I had a thought earlier of something that you said. Forgot.

Michael Scalar:

Oh no.

Roland:

What was it? Come on, it'll come back.

Marino:

It'll come, it's coming. I can hit you in

Michael Scalar:

the head, maybe it'll help. God will hit you in the head.

Roland:

Come on,

Michael Scalar:

we

Roland:

need some help up there.

Michael Scalar:

Okay.

Roland:

Yep, there we go,

Marino:

got it. Multidimensional, understanding certain concepts and how they're like beyond us, right? Because everyone wants to, we have this need of certainty and everyone wants to understand everything all of the time and its absolutes.

Michael Scalar:

All at once.

Marino:

All at once. In this moment, tell me right now, you have five seconds. Carl Sagan has this great demonstration where he takes a tesseract. And he's like, A tesseract is a three-dimensional kind of cross section of a fourth dimensional object. In the very same way, if I had a carrot and I shine that carrot through this two dimensional plane, you only see the circle that's like so small and then gets big.

Marino:

So if you're a two dimensional being on this table, you only see a circle. Right? And you don't understand what that third dimension is or anything like that. In the very same way us in three dimensions, we can't fathom the fourth dimension or what this object looks like in the fourth dimension. And so to think that you can understand something that exists beyond this dimension is just like right?

Marino:

And I've learned to accept this and just to think there are parts and constructs of things that make sense to me and I can make peace with and also understand that there are things bigger than me that I don't understand, but it is what it is.

Michael Scalar:

I think that's where the whole religious and God concept came because if you go back in time, there was no Internet, people were very simple and they were really like, I have so many questions.

Marino:

People just be like,

Michael Scalar:

well go to church, it'll answer everything. So what is the meaning of life? God. How was I birthed? God.

Michael Scalar:

Why is the sun and moon rise? God. It's like just a simplified, okay, we don't

Roland:

know how to

Michael Scalar:

answer these so God.

Marino:

About, wait, I didn't ask the question yet. What's the question you asked? God.

Roland:

Or it's God's will. That's a compound.

Michael Scalar:

God's will for sure.

Roland:

And when you get into a debate with someone and they utter that statement, the debate's done regardless of how much more material you have, because that's the bumper to where that person's willing to go. And it's interesting because theoretically it can't be the wrong answer in some context, meaning at some point you're going to run out of explanations because it's going to come from source creator.

Marino:

So you could say,

Roland:

it's God, but the human ego has such a strong desire to own the idea and the information and to be able to put borders around it and define it from different ways. You take a

Michael Scalar:

look at beliefs. So if I believe something so strongly, know it as a fact because I've taken it from a source of authority like a church who's been around longer than any human. And then as well, now the church says this, It's really interesting your topic because I've had a lot of conversation and I don't be argumentative. I was just like, let's have a discussion about this. And you do typically reach a point where they get flustered because you're now pushing into their belief systems, these bricks of information that they know as fact because they've labeled them as fact.

Michael Scalar:

And you start asking questions and they start to get pained and you can see it on them uncomfortable. And they're like, don't answer, I can't engage. The same happens in politics and I don't wanna take sides on politics. But you have these sides of like, well, no, I believe this is right. No, I believe this is right.

Michael Scalar:

You're both wrong because you shouldn't be arguing. You should be having a discussion. And that's where people foster a lot of enlightenment or maybe a God concept. Enlightenment occurs through a discussion. Because if I don't know something or something I know is wrong, the only way I'm gonna delve out what is truth is by having a conversation, not which is one person, but maybe many people.

Michael Scalar:

And then you group think it is like everyone says two plus two is two. At some point, you're gonna find someone that will say something like this. Two plus two is two in a paper equation, but two plus two or two even my math is bad.

Roland:

There you go. One plus one is two

Michael Scalar:

is my point. But at a certain point, if you have one plus one and someone maybe in atomic science says, well, one plus one is two on paper. But if you look at atomic math, say we're weighing two things and it's one ounce and one ounce is one ounce and one ounce always equaling two ounces. Now here's the break. It's not because there's never going to be a perfect cast of something on atomic level that weighs precisely one ounce when you go down decimal points into say nano.

Michael Scalar:

So there would be your argument of how, well, we've broken a cycle of information because while you believe it says that in actuality, if you wanna get nitpicky, it actually equals something else.

Marino:

Yeah. I think like any context or any problem you talk about, you speak of them in challenges and affordances, right? So there's like a certain amount of information that you need to discuss and it only works in that domain or scope, which is the same as like Newtonian physics versus quantum physics, right? They live in their realm. And as soon as you try to apply one to the other, it just doesn't work.

Marino:

And yeah, to your point too

Michael Scalar:

That's like religion. Like they just don't work together. They're the same thing, but they're not compatible.

Marino:

Yeah, yeah, Yeah. And that concept that you were touching on, there's this great book called Crucial Conversations. And there's a strategy in communication for when you are in dialogue with someone and there's conflict, and it's called adding meaning to the pool. Because if you're trying to just to win, it's very combative. But if you both agree to add meaning to the pool, then you'll gain clarity.

Marino:

It's like, oh, that's what you meant. Okay. And you would have never gotten to that information if you continue down that path of just trying to win or telling them that they're wrong or anything like that. And that's ultimately how you come to a consensus and an agreement is by understanding what you mean from its entirety.

Michael Scalar:

So that's really the thing with religion these days is so many people just don't know what it means or they don't like the control mechanism. But there are always great little tidbits. Every religion out there, they have great takeaway information. Love thy neighbor is one of the love everyone around you. Like there's no reason to be hateful.

Michael Scalar:

They did you wrong. There's forgiveness. That's also part of religion. I think we're probably running up on time here. So you guys have any last bits of maybe some takeaway of your own favorite quotes, even from Emerald Tablets or anything like that.

Michael Scalar:

My favorite is become with a light torch so that you might pass it amongst men.

Roland:

So basically what that's do you interpret that statement in terms of a practical takeaway?

Michael Scalar:

Become the light, the bright light that when I touch you, you become that bright light and you pass it amongst the next person. One hundredth monkey.

Roland:

Got you. Favorite quote, Marino, if you have one go, I have to think if there's something that really resonates with me is something that I sit with.

Marino:

I have many, but none that are coming to mind right now. Is it in this context or just any quote?

Michael Scalar:

Any quote.

Marino:

Like a good and simple one is to be rather than to seem. I'll do another one.

Roland:

Don't have a specific quote. I would say that the thing that's coming to me to say is I always try to zoom out and look at everything from like a 30,000 foot satellite view and then down into a microscopic view. And the one message that I got through all of our discussion was that religion, spirituality, whatever, if you look at what it really is, is it's a vehicle for your own personal development and your relationship of getting closer to God in some capacity. I think that if you can realize that my opinion, the most optimal outcome of any sort of journey and in a religious or spiritual aspect is the development of getting closer to unconditional love, and then taking that as a base frequency and emanating that out, not to push your way of looking at things on everyone else, but to be in loving acceptance of where everyone is on their journey. I think that's where the beautiful convergence of religion, spirituality, the development of where it's going for people is really at least what I'm seeing and what I'm resonating with right now, because there's an old saying in the certain aspect of energy medicine, the high frequencies can always permeate the low, but the low frequencies cannot permeate the high.

Roland:

If you can use religion and spirituality as a vehicle to resonate with those frequencies that exist in love, compassion, acceptance, understanding, rather than anger, combat, hate, jealousy, judgment. That is, I think part of the huge journey of the human being and the human soul as using a vehicle could be Catholicism, Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, or your own spiritual paganism, whatever the journey is. If you can find a way to get closer to God and be a more loving representation of that, which I think is the underpinning of this whole experience that we live in. Know it's not a quote, but that is my resonance of what I wanted to share.

Michael Scalar:

It's a long quote.

Roland:

It's a long quote. It's lot of words.

Michael Scalar:

Think that was absolutely beautiful and a great way to wrap up the show. Thank you guys. And namaste.