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Travis speaks with Nikki van Schyndel from the hit TV series, ALONE where she spent 51 days isolated in the Arctic. Nikki is a the bestselling author of “Becoming Wild”, Ted Talk alumni, former sponsored snowboarder and all around cool person. Tune in to listen to near death experiences, Sasquatch stories and inspiration on what drives a person to endure such extremes. This is a podcast you don’t want to miss.
Purchase Nikki's book here: https://amzn.to/33GBn2t
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The Silvercore Podcast explores the mindset and skills that build capable people. Host Travis Bader speaks with hunters, adventurers, soldiers, athletes, craftsmen, and founders about competence, integrity, and the pursuit of mastery, in the wild and in daily life. Hit follow and step into conversations that sharpen your edge.
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Today I'm joined by a
modern day Thoreau, the
author of Becoming Wild:
Living the Primitive Life
on a West Coast Island.
She's a TED Talk
graduate and contestant
on History channel's
hit TV series, Alone.
Where she survived
51 days in the Arctic
on next to nothing.
Welcome to The
Silvercore Podcast,
Nikki van Schyndel.
Oh thanks for having me.
I am so excited
to have you.
It's been about
what a year there?
Yeah, definitely, at
least a year, right?
Yeah.
We've been texting and
talking back and forth
and we're finally able
to make this connect.
You know, I've got
your book, great
book by the way.
Mmm, thanks.
Anybody who's interested
in being alone or living
a primitive lifestyle or
what it might be like.
I would definitely
recommend checking out,
Becoming Wild: Living
the Primitive Life on
a West Coast Island.
So when I read
through that, I found
a few similarities.
You know, I'm looking
at things that you have
done and that you do,
and I'm looking back at
some things in my life.
And a few of the
similarities I found,
well, one was just kind
of a funny one; you
had a cat named Scout.
Yeah.
So I've got a
daughter named Scout.
Oh my gosh
that's awesome!
Was, was that inspired
by Harper Lee's novel?
No actually, uh,
it was inspired by,
uh, the ancient,
like Apache Scouts.
Ahh, I love it.
Yeah.
She was incredible.
She's still alive, she's
actually retired living
in town with my mom now,
but she, I think she's
about 20 years old now.
Holy, that's, so I'm
not a cat person,
probably because I'm
allergic to cats.
That'd be a primary one.
I remember as a kid,
I really wanted a
cat and I, I'm doing
air quotes here.
I, I found a cat and
I clutched it so close
to my chest and it
was clawing me up and
anyways, I brought
it home and I told my
parents, I said, this
cat followed me home,
can we keep it, right?
My parents like, yeah,
yeah, followed you home.
And I'm like, I don't
know why I'm so itchy and
look, took off my shirt,
took a look and sure
enough absolute hives.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, I'm not a
cat person either,
but I found her
slightly similar.
She was abandoned by
her feral mother and.
Oh okay.
And, uh, I was going
off on this big survival
trek and I said, okay
cat, like, you can hang
out with me, but this
is what your life's
going to be like.
So you're going to
have to be wild.
And she was amazing.
That's not too
bad for a cat.
Yeah, she's
incredible cat.
So reading
through your book.
You make a number
of references
to Sam Gribley.
Let me just reach
into my bag here.
Oh!
Like wow, one of
the original copies.
Look what I got.
Cool.
So if you look on
the front cover
there or, sorry.
Yeah, there you go.
Look at your
writing, it's like
tiny kid writing.
It hasn't
progressed much.
What I just handed
Nikki here, is my
original book, My
Side of the Mountain.
So cool.
So I think it was what
grade four when I got
that book and I loved
that book and reading
through your book.
You love that
book as well.
Oh yeah.
This was my favorite
book of all times.
I mean, I wanted
to be Sam Gribley
more than anything.
When I was a kid,
I just like after
school, I'd run into
the bush and start
making bows and arrows
and picking berries.
And I was like, I'm
going to be Sam.
And then I grew up
obviously and forgot
all about Sam until,
you know, I was in my
twenties and started
learning all this stuff
about survival and
living off the land.
And one day I was at,
uh, one of my teacher's
house and I pulled
this book off the shelf
and it was this, My
Side of the Mountain.
Yeah?
And I thought, oh
my gosh, I have
all these crazy
skills to go be Sam.
Totally.
Like I'm going
to go do it.
And, uh, that's why,
uh, yeah, I was really
inspired by this book.
I named my little
road book Gribley and
it was really cool.
Yeah, I, for whatever
reason, that book
really resonated
with me as a kid.
And, uh, so much to the
point that I decided
at lunchtime to sneak
into the classroom
and steal that book.
And as I'm stealing that
book, the teacher comes
in and then I've got
to come up with a story
and the teachers are,
what are you doing Trav?
I said, oh, you know, I
just, um, whatever I came
up with, he says, oh, why
do you have that book?
Oh, no, that book,
that's my book I
said, total lie.
The teacher says
your book is it?
And grabs it from me,
opens it up and takes a
look on the inside and
sure enough, there's the,
uh, the school stamp on
there and looks at me.
He's like, you sure
this is your book and
I'm, now I'm fully
committed to the lie.
Like, uh, like what
do you do when your
in grade four like,
yes, that's my book.
The teacher, you
can see the rip
on the page there.
The teacher rips a
page out and says,
well, if it's your
book, you better
put your name in it.
Oh, that's so cool.
And the teacher
said, but this is
between you and me.
If anyone asks,
essentially,
I'll deny it.
And I thought, holy
crow, that's, that's
a cool teacher, so
I've held onto that
book ever since.
Cause it's a.
Super cool.
It's an interesting
story, about a kid,
lives in the wild.
And I never really
liked the ending where
he moved back home.
Yeah, neither did
I, neither did I.
That is so cool that she
was like, you know what?
He loves this book
so much, I'm going
to give it to him.
Have you ever been
in touch with that
teacher since?
No, I haven't.
I mean, look your life,
you know, just like Sam.
Totally.
Me just like Sam.
I actually contacted,
um, Jean Craighead
George, when I got back.
Really?
And said, hey, I
got to say your
book has inspired
me my whole life.
And I just wanted to
say, hey, I became Sam.
And she wrote back
immediately said, I've
been waiting for a
kid to tell me this.
And I'm going to tell
every other kid that
you can be Sam too.
Cause she just constantly
gets letters from so many
kids that is inspired
by her by her book.
Um, unfortunately she
passed away right before
my book was published.
I couldn't send
her a copy, but we
chatted all the time.
Christmas cards,
sending pictures.
She was actually an
extraordinary woman.
Really?
Mhmmm.
Did, was there
any bit of.
Yes!
Sam in her?
Oh yeah.
Her father, I think
was one of the
first, um, falconers.
Oh really?
Yeah.
And, uh, she spent
lots of time in
the bush learning
all these things.
Yeah, she was really
an amazing woman.
That is so cool.
So you spent, and your
book talks about a year
and a half that you spent
out living primitively
on an Island here in BC.
Yeah.
Did you want to talk
a little bit about.
Sure.
What primitively means?
Yeah.
Exactly.
Well, I was a pretty
hardcore, I just gotta
be all primitive, so
absolutely nothing
modern, no knife,
just stone tools
and bows and arrows.
And I was, you know,
sleeping in hides and
making everything from
baskets to clothing,
to, um, bone hooks and
rope, cedar bark rope.
And, and then there
became this point where
it was like, you know
what a frying pan is an
amazing invention, you
know, I love this pot.
Yes.
And so, it just
came time to be
like, you know what?
It's okay that I'm going
to keep a frying pan.
Like making clay
pottery and dealing
with frying on rocks
all works, obviously.
But there was more, I
wanted to learn about,
you know, living out in
the wild and the time it
takes to live absolutely
primitively like that.
There's no, no
tribe, I don't have
a tribe, I don't have
a people to help.
So I made these
exceptions where I
would keep, you know,
a bunch of rope and
then I would just tie
cedar bark onto it.
Okay.
I made thousands of feet
of cedar bark rope, but
it became like, wow, I
need even more to live.
So I would just
tie cedar bark onto
fishing line and have,
you know, 40 feet of
cedar bark and then
regular fishing line.
And so there was
ways that I utilized
some modern gear.
Um, I kept my
knife, I kept an ax.
Right.
I mean, try, you
know, axing down a
tree with a stone.
Yeah, good luck.
I've tried.
It takes forever.
Yes.
You can do it.
It is doable.
But you know, I'm not
trying to prove that
this stuff worked.
So, um, yeah.
And there was this other
things I kept a saw and
just some basic stuff.
Um, I got rid of the fish
hooks, which was really,
really interesting,
uh, made bone hooks
to make them work.
And, um, there was some
things that I wasn't
willing to go modern.
Like I made all my
bows and arrows and.
I saw that, that's
pretty cool.
Yeah.
Um, so yeah, I did
sleep in hides.
Uh, I kept
modern clothing.
I did make a bunch
of clothing, but like
walking around in
a cedar bark skirt
just isn't quite as
good as Carhartts.
No kidding.
Well, you, you came from
a pretty, you came from a
background, you, you were
sponsored snowboarder at
what, 23 I think it was?
Yeah.
Something like that.
Yeah.
In my twenties and yeah,
I definitely didn't
come from a family of.
You know,
outdoors people.
My dad was into camping
a little bit, but you
know, we had a motor
home and I just, yeah,
my, my family is not a
real big outdoor person.
So I grew up pretty
privileged show
jumping horses and.
Yeah.
Just a different
life from what I
live now, for sure.
Wasn't there a horse
named Ivy at some point?
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
There was a lot of
horses and, um, my
family in Holland, uh,
raises show jumpers and
I got my start there.
Okay.
And, uh, just, just
my life for all of
my teenage years.
And I think I started
maybe when I was eight.
Okay.
And I just wanted to
go to the Olympics.
That's all I breathed
and dreamed was horses.
And, um, yeah, I
just want to know
the Olympics,
like my trainer.
And then, you know,
it's expensive sport.
Totally.
And my mother one day
was like, all right,
um, she's going to buy
this horse named Ivy.
It was going to be my,
you know, big junior
jumper and found this
horse that was very
cheap in the world of,
uh, show jumpers, but
it was this undiscovered
gem, if you will.
So I was like, I'm going
to make so much money
on this horse next year.
Mama's gonna be amazing.
And my trainer, not all
excited that my mom was
going to buy the horse.
And, uh, she got a flat
tire I guess on the way.
And so, okay, I got
home from college
that day and I said,
Hey, did we buy Ivy?
You know, like
is she mine.
And she said, oh yeah,
she vetted out well.
But, um, I got a
flat tire on the way.
And I was like, Oh,
that's a bummer.
She goes, yeah.
I took it as a sign
from God that it's time
for you to get a job.
And I was like, what?
A job?
I'd never worked
in my life.
Wow.
I was like, fine.
I'll get a job.
So I went down to the
bar and I got this job
and I'll never forget
the first paycheck I got.
You know, I hadn't even,
I wasn't feeding my horse
even or turning it out.
So I was working
really hard and it's
all proud of myself.
And I got this check and
you know, it was like, so
little, I was like, can't
even buy a shirt for
this, let alone buy Ivy.
Wow.
Um, yeah.
I kind of started a
different progression
of my life, which I'm
super grateful for.
Huh.
So the wise dispensation
of divine providence.
I guess so.
Holy crow.
So you go from a
pretty privileged
life to wanting to be
alone, essentially.
You wanting to
have wanting to be
out in the wild.
What was driving
that for you?
Because it sounds like
you come from a pretty
competitive background
if you're going to be.
Super.
Olympic level.
No, yeah.
Horse jumper, a
sponsored snowboarder.
Oh yeah, you're
number one.
That's all you do is you
just work really hard
and train, and that's
all you focused on.
Was that just something
you're born with or
is that something
bred into you?
My dad, definitely.
Okay.
My dad, everything was
about winning and, you
know, competition, ever
since I can remember.
You know, even playing
checkers with them,
wasn't like a fun
game with your dad.
You're like finger came
off, you lose a turn.
You're like, what?
I'm like four.
Dutch.
Totally the Dutch.
I can say that I'm Dutch.
Totally.
So, um, yeah.
I kind of took that
level of intensity,
uh, into training
to be a naturalist,
survivalist and tracker.
And, um, just decided,
hey, like this is
something, I actually
just felt really
compelled to do it.
I started having these
incredible experiences
in nature that I just
couldn't understand or
even share with people.
They seem so I
don't know, magical
and crazy and.
Right.
Um, I just felt compelled
by something I couldn't
understand, could
make this my life.
It really wasn't a
conscious decision of,
hey, this seems neat,
I'm going to do it.
It was like something
I just, I had to do
it, even though I was
like, this is crazy.
Who cares about starting
fires with sticks?
Like, I, I shouldn't
care about this.
Man, I, you know, as
a kid, there was this
group called Friends
of the Fort and this
was out in Fort Langley
and they'd dress up in
buckskins and moccasin.
Oh yes I've been to it!
You remember that?
Yes!
So there is a fellow
there who was making
flintlock rifles and
I grew up in a, in
a firearms family.
And so my dad was
getting into making his
own kentucky rifle and.
Cool.
Yeah, and I started
getting into that
area as well, made
my own moccasins and.
Nice!
Got wearing my, my
knickers and I'd go
out into Fort Langley.
And when they did
portage's and.
Yeah.
I don't know, it was
kinda, it was kinda
neat, but I, you, you
took that whole thing
to the next level.
I mean, you, you really
pushed that, do you
still feel that burning
desire in yourself to,
to keep foraging down
the primitive path?
Yeah, I do actually,
even more so now.
I did take, it's not
like it took a break
from it, but I, I
did move out into the
wilderness and become
an off-grider, which is
a different lifestyle
than a primitive
survivalist, if you will.
Right.
I mean, it has elements
obviously of both, but
being an off-grider
is just a lot of
hard labor work.
Totally is.
Um, building a cabin
and all of that took
a lot of me, from just
simply hiking around
the forest and trying
to touch animals
and doing what I do.
So there was like several
years where it was just
more grunt laboring and,
you know, taking time
to do those things that
I really wanted to do.
But, um, I'm kind of,
yeah, I'm just kinda
getting back into
the learning more
about the old skills.
I, I've reconnected,
I was adopted.
Okay.
And I've reconnected
with my birth family,
which has been really
exciting and, um,
yeah, really exciting.
I mean, it's been
a lot of emotion.
Don't get me wrong.
Totally.
But, um, so I found my
family and some cousins
and through that, I've
recently found my birth
mother and I'm Ojibwe.
Um, so it's really
excited to go back
to Ontario and do a
survival treck out there.
Learning with, I've met
a man that's going to
teach me how to make
a birch bark canoe.
So cool.
And, I know.
I'm going to go out onto
the land there where my
ancestors are from and
kind of relive that area
and landscape, which I'm
really excited about.
Did you know that
you were adopted or
did you find that?
Oh yeah, I've known,
ever since I was
born, I don't remember
not being adopted.
Um, my parents
have always been
very open about it.
But it's interesting this
whole circle of my life
coming around, you know,
when I was a little kid,
all I wanted to do is,
you know, live off the
land and, you know, every
Halloween I would dress
up as like a native kid.
And, um.
It's just in your blood.
Yeah, so clearly,
there is a reason why
I was learning all
about it, it's just.
Oh that's interesting.
A part of me.
Yeah.
So it's been really
interesting and fun
and to reconnect with
that and just start
learning all about
just the Anishinaabe.
And I'm really
excited about it.
Now, so I wasn't adopted,
but I'm just thinking
about it now, did you
feel, maybe a sense of
social isolation, as in
that, or maybe just a
level of connectedness?
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah.
And I've actually just
in the last couple
months have been really
delving into that.
I mean, there was
definitely a, I
would say, not a
separation perhaps,
but just a belonging,
I think is the word.
You know, it's not
like a don't belong
with my family now.
I love my family.
Sure.
I mean, that's
my mom and my dad
and my brother.
Um, but there is a sense
as an adopted person
that, you know that
you're not related.
Um, and I think that
has permeated my whole
life of this, not
belonging with other,
you know, I didn't know
my heritage, you know,
I'm Scottish and, um.
Cool.
Yeah.
I'm Scottish and Native
and, uh, I didn't
know any of that.
So I've spent most
of my life studying
Native traditions and
Celtic traditions,
which is interesting.
So you have your bannock
with your Haigis?
That's right!
Um, yeah, I think, I
think that's why I've
been always attracted
to nature because I feel
like I belong there.
It's like the one place
that, that is truly
my home and my people
in a way, you know?
Totally.
Um, So, yeah, I think
that's also why I've
been, I love being alone.
I'm totally comfortable
being alone.
I think that's why
it was great for the
show, because I've
always played by
myself as a little kid.
I've no problem, I
can always entertain.
I'm never bored.
Do you find it difficult
to socialize in groups?
Do you find it maybe
particularly, after
you've been alone for a
while, that transition
period, is that a
difficult transition?
I would say I used to
be, uh, I used to, to
be honest, people used
to really irritate me.
Um, I just.
I can hear that.
I just, yeah, I'd
rather do things myself.
Um, wasn't a
great team player.
Um, but once I went
on Alone, I honestly,
it was so strange.
I went on TV show Alone,
so figure out what
it's like to be alone.
And it turned out when
I came back from that,
that I just, I got
this incredible love
of humanity out of it.
Um, which made no
sense to me, but when
I left and while I was
out there, I just, I
don't know, it was just
this incredible night.
And just all of a
sudden was like, wow,
I love people, where
I would never have
said that before.
And if you talk to
anybody that was on
that show prior to now,
they're like, yeah, I
don't know what happened
to Nikki out in the
woods, but something
fundamentally changed
about this woman.
Was it like a
light switch?
Yeah, it was just
like instantaneously
one night I was
crawling into my bed.
That's interesting.
I know.
It's like, I was
struck by some star
and I'm like, wow.
I feel like an entirely
different person.
It took me about a
year getting back off
the show to figure out
who I was and how to
interact because I was
so genuinely concerned
and interested about
other people where before
I honestly, I didn't
really care too much
about what was going
on in other people's
lives, as much as I
should have or wanted to.
Was there an event that
somehow triggered that
rewiring of the brain?
Yeah, i, I wish I could
say what it was and
I've gone back through
time and time again and
my journals and stuff.
I mean, you're not
allowed to write anything
when you're on Alone.
Okay.
So there's no way of
recording down what's
happening to you daily.
Um, and so it becomes
harder after to get
back those memories and
leaving the show in the
way I did, you know, I
was pulled out, it was
pretty traumatic for me.
So I had quite a lot
of trauma after that
initially for the first
couple of weeks back.
And so, not that I've
lost memories of it, but
it's hard to get back all
of the things that happen
to you on a daily basis
on a show like that.
So I don't know what
triggered that moment.
I feel like it's my
life, you know, just
every little thing,
step, had come up to
this moment where I was
alone in the Arctic.
And I was like, yay.
Here's who I truly am.
And I'm not afraid
to be who I truly
am anymore because
I was on that show.
And, um, I think there
was just a lot of
things that happened
to me emotionally and
spiritually on Alone
that I had never dreamed
would have happened.
The universe unfolds
as it should.
Yeah.
It's really cool.
Well you talk about a
spiritual side, and I
want to touch on that
because you talk about
it in your book as well.
And I, and I find a
couple of things that you
wrote really interesting,
but before we go there,
what were some of the
most difficult things
you found about being
alone for 51 days?
Um, I really didn't
find anything difficult
about being alone.
It was amazing as soon
as I stepped off that
helicopter, I just like,
couldn't wait to see
that thing disappear.
You know, I was like,
yes, I'm finally gonna
know what it's like
to truly be alone.
Like we just
don't get that.
I don't know if it's
a luxury, but we
just don't get that
experience in modern
life anymore to be alone.
I mean, it's.
You don't.
It's impossible to find.
Not in the cities
anyways, that's for sure.
No and so I was like
really excited to feel
what that was going
to feel like, and I
had never felt more
connected to my friends
and my family and my
teachers in my whole life
while I was on alone.
Like it was almost to
the point where I just
felt there were so
many people around me.
I get goosebumps
thinking about it.
I'd be like, look
people, back up.
Like I just, I need
some space around
like fire pit.
So I, I never
missed anybody.
I thought I ,actually
thought I felt kind
of bad about it.
I was like, I should
probably feel bad,
I don't miss a
single person, but.
I felt like I could
just reach out to
them and there they
were, you know, I had
certain things in place.
Like when the moon,
full moon was there,
my grandmother would
be thinking about me.
And at night, you
know, I had different
things that, my mom
would light a candle.
And I don't know if that
helped or not, but, um, I
certainly never felt like
there wasn't a moment
I could reach out to,
uh, even a teacher with
an answer I needed and
immediately my mind would
be filled with, hey,
that's a great idea where
it came from, I don't
know, uh, you know, but.
Really?
It was really, really
cool to just have this
incredible sense of
connection, even though I
was so far from anything.
That is pretty neat.
So I never, I never had
any, just loneliness or
I miss my family so much
or anything like that.
I have no, no experience
about that., The things
that are painful for
people on the show.
Right.
I didn't feel those
things that others
went through.
Do you find it
hard to quiet the
voices in your head?
I mean, we have so
many distractions in
our day-to-day life,
living in the city or
living in civilization
and with technology and
text messages and social
media and all the rest.
I personally find it
takes me a few days
anyways, when I'm out in
the bush to decompress.
And in those few days, my
head is just going crazy.
And all of this stuff
that maybe I haven't
thought about in a long
time starts popping
in and, uh, arguments
I've had in the past
start popping up
and you have, all of
this inner dialogue.
If I'm on my own long
enough, eventually
that changes.
But it doesn't go
away, but it changes.
Yeah.
What's your
experience with that?
Because I've never
been 51 days alone.
Yeah.
Um, I, I have learned
how to control
the inner chatter.
Um, it's I think one
of the most important
survival skills we can
have is to learn how
to control our mind
and our emotions far
more than the skills.
Totally.
Um, and so I've done a
lot of work in my life
to, it's not, I think
there's a misconception.
It's not turning it off
because our mind is our
most powerful thing.
So I don't want to turn
my mind off because it
thinks up amazing stuff.
And it's going to save
my life in a lot of
instances and harm me
in different instances.
So.
Right.
I like, I don't
necessarily turn it off.
I just focus it.
And when I don't want
all the chatter, I have
figured out how to quiet
that out mostly by.
Here, I can hear the,
I don't want to say
useless chatter, but
you know what I mean?
I totally know
what you mean.
Just the useless
stuff that you're
like, wow, I just
need a break from you.
And I, as soon as that
comes in, I'm like,
hey, thanks a lot um,
not important to me.
And I just don't continue
on with the stories
that we tell ourselves.
It it's, it's a habit
that I started that I
worked hard on and it's
just become natural
now because it does
interfere with your time
and in the wilderness.
Like you have to be
able to have, uh,
really open and engaged
and focused mind when
you're out in the woods.
Otherwise you're
going to miss, you
know, that one plant
in the Arctic, right?
The four leaves I
managed to find that
were edible, right.
I found six Rose
hips walking around a
landscape and noticing
one old Rose hip.
I mean, you have
to be very aware to
even notice that.
And if your mind's
chattering around, it's
like, oh I wonder what
people are going to
think of me right now, I
wonder how I look holding
this camera up when I
have, you know, snot
running down my face.
And I'm sure I look like
hell, and if you have
those kinds of thoughts,
you're literally not
going to be as successful
as you could be, so.
Oh you're done.
Um, and, and, and that
I think was the one
thing that, um, I loved
about the show was,
I just made it, uh, a
personal mission to say,
okay, I'm going to try
to make the best show
I can for these people.
And I'm going to
film everything the
worst, the best, the
in-between, you know,
I'm going to cry if I
feel like I need to cry.
I'm going to laugh,
I'm going to goof off.
I don't, I'm just
going to do that all.
And it was the most
freeing thing I've
ever done in my life.
Like to be on national
TV and especially my
story, if you've seen,
obviously like it
was just a wreck out
there, total nightmare.
I have no idea why all
that happened, but it
was an incredible story
of one thing after the
other happened to me.
Like I've, I am
definitely gone
down in history as
the most accident
prone participant
ever in the history.
I don't know if
you really want to
claim that, but I
will claim that.
So are you generally
accident prone?
No, this was
so phenomenal
about the story.
Like I'm not, I'm
actually, literally
soon as I stepped off
that helicopter, I
mean the whole time
you say to yourself,
look, if I cut myself,
I could be out of here.
I want that $500,000.
So every time I picked
up my ass, I was
like, be careful if
you get an ax cut.
Every time, every time
I picked up my knife, I
would just remind myself.
And, um, there was
just, gosh, you know,
I cut towards myself
and like I teach
knife safety, right?
Yes.
Oh, you know, the worst
was probably I stabbed
myself with my arr-
I've actually never
used modern arrows,
they're like razorblades,
obviously you know.
Yes, yes.
I was like, whoa,
these are razorblades.
And every time I
carried one, I was
like, okay, be careful,
this is a razorblade
you could literally
damage yourself and.
And you did.
And I did, you know,
I was pulling up my
pants coming home
late from hunting,
looking for moose.
And I just, you know,
did that like jump
up with your pants.
Yes.
And I was holding one
arrow and one area was
always on, and when
I came down, I just
jabbed the back of my
leg with the arrow and I
thought, Oh no, it just
probably nicked me, it
was like walking down.
Nope.
I could feel the
blood drippin'.
I was like, ah, geez.
And you know, it's,
this was like, hey
I'm going to film it.
Like, I'm going
to film it.
I mean, you don't have
to film everything,
which was the unliving
thing for my part of the
story for me personally.
I mean, just to be
able to say, hey, it's
not that I don't care
what people think.
It's just, this is what
happened, this is the
truth of what happened.
I'm willing to own
up to that truth.
And, um, I'm willing
to learn from it
and it's okay that
we make mistakes.
And to be able to be,
to the world, your
worst moments, like
now in my life I'm
like what isn't there
I can say or do that.
Totally.
Like it.
It's liberating.
It was, it was the
most freedom I've
ever felt in my life.
Wow.
Yeah, it's really cool.
As long as you can
carry that with you
in your mind, as you
go forward and carry
that experience, you'll
continue with that
freedom I should imagine.
Yes.
Yeah, it was.
I mean, I've, just from
my experiences, I've
felt what it is like
to be truly free, but
this just added another
dimension on to that.
That was really, uh,
yeah, life-changing
for me, for sure.
Well, you talk about
using sap to heal wounds.
My, uh, you know, I don't
think my family has got
the best record with
booby traps, but I, uh,
I've never met my uncle.
He, uh, he died before,
before I was born, but,
uh, uh, he was in Royal
22nd Regiment and had a
faulty grenade that went
off and, but, um, I guess
as a kid, he wanted to
make a booby trap and
he found an old rusty
lawnmower blade and, and,
uh, put a trip wire up
and put this blade out
and laid down beside it,
measured it out for about
a kid's head height and.
Oh my.
And figured, ahh this
will be perfect, right?
The stupid things
that kids do right?
And, uh, I guess, some
months later, completely
forgetting about it, ran
through and tripped and
cut himself in his head.
And the neighbor came
out and found him and
he says, I know what we
got to do, use some sap.
We gotta use some
sap to heal this up.
Nice.
I guess my grandmother
had other ideas and took
him to the hospital.
But, uh, does that work?
Yes!
Yeah?
It's great.
Like when I was out
in, uh, for the year
and a half, I used
sap exclusively.
That . Particular
treck, I decided
to only use plants.
I mean, I had a first aid
kit that I had brought
out, it was pretty meager
to be honest when I look
back at it, but, um,
I never had to use it.
I only used plants to,
um, heal any of the
injuries and even the
biggest gashes, if you
use really clean sap,
um, and kinda, I warm
it up and then pour
it into the wound.
It, it actually
lets the wound heal
from the inside out.
So it acts like a
band-aid for one.
Stuff sticks to it
at first, but then it
becomes less sticky and
then it just kind of
heals from the inside.
So it doesn't get
infected because sap
has antibacterial
properties in it.
And you don't have to
worry about it again.
You don't have
to keep changing
dressings or whatever.
Um, just sticks on there.
Does it matter what kind
of tree you get it from?
Well, so I had good
success with the
firs, uh, Douglas fir.
When I was in the Arctic,
I really, I don't know
what was going on there.
Honestly, it was so
cold, I would heat up
the pitch and by the time
I would even try to get
it on some of my wounds.
It would, it would
just, harden right away
cause it was so cold
and that's practically
burned my hand, trying to
get the pitch in there.
And it would just
always kind of fall
out as it would freeze.
So I'm not sure if
it's more of a climate
or if it was just
different pitch.
I mean, I tried different
pitches in the Arctic.
I couldn't quite give
you a perfect answer
on that, but the pitch
really didn't help.
I was trying to use
pitch to heal all the
cracks in my fingers
in the Arctic cause
it was really painful.
I could imagine.
And it just never worked.
You know, I've got
another story about
booby traps, but I
think I'll say that for
a different podcast.
Booby traps are the best.
Booby traps.
It's like that, uh,
what was it Goonies?
What was that kid's name
with the slick shoes?
Oh my God, I
can't remember.
Booby traps.
Booby traps.
Totally.
Data!
Yes!
yes.
Data.
That was his name.
So, and I'm not
being cheeky here,
but I gotta ask.
Oh, you can be cheeky.
Is Sasquatch real?
Oh great!
Oh.
And not necessarily
Sasquatch.
And the reason I ask
this is because, and am
I pronouncing this right?
Dzunukwa.
Yeah.
Dzunukwa.
Female Sasquatch.
Yeah, the wild
woman of the woods.
Yes.
So this is an
incredible question.
It's one of those
questions that
you're saying, okay,
like, how am I going
to answer this?
Because just the, I don't
know, the culture around
Sasquatch is, it's nutty.
Um, but I have to say
the native communities,
indigenous people all
over the world, there
is some supernatural
being, if you will, as
a Sasquatch, whether
it's the Yetis and the
Sasquatchs, the Dzunukwa.
I mean, there's so many
cultures around the world
that have this being
in their, uh, history.
Right.
10,000 years of
storytelling of Bakwas
and Dzunukwa for the
Northwest people.
I mean, I'm not,
obviously can't speak
to their traditions
on that being, but
it's alive and well
energy that is talked
about where I live.
Um, amongst the people
that I have had,
I have to say some
pretty incredible,
unexplainable,
experiences with things
in the woods that
I don't know how to
explain with tracks.
Um, and I've definitely
been chased and heard
something coming at me
with a friend of mine.
That was
extraordinarily scary.
Yeah?
That I have no idea
what I was, shaking huge
Alder trees that were
about a foot and a half
probably wide making this
horrid yelling, screaming
kind of noise and.
Really?
Charging through
this thick brush.
I mean, my friend and I
just looked at her like,
I have no idea what that
is like, is that a bear?
Or like, it wasn't,
unlike any sound I've
ever heard a bear make.
I've been around a
bears a long time.
Yeah you have.
And I got to say, I
don't know what it
was, but my friend and
I didn't wait around.
My dog was already
like 500 feet down.
See ya!
The trail, just left me.
My friend and I just
like ran miles back to
our truck and we never
talked about it again.
It was just one of
those things like,
hey, you know, years
later we'd be like,
hey, remember that hike
we took at last lake.
And you're like, Oh yeah.
What do you
think that was?
I have no idea.
Okay, well have
a good life.
I'll talk to
you in a year.
Um,
I like that definition
of an energy or
a spirit or a.
Yeah I mean.
A feeling.
There's something.
I mean, I know personally
a lot of people who have
claimed to see them.
Um, some old timers
that honestly, just
come from a different
generation, then they're
not really storytellers
in the way people
are storytellers now.
I also have a tracking
teacher of mine that
I have asked and said,
hey, you know, you've
been out on, you
know, investigations.
And he's like, oh
yeah, lots of big
foot investigations.
Like, well, what, what
do you got for me?
Right.
And he's like, you know,
I got to say every single
one of them was faked.
Okay.
And I was like,
wow, really?
Like people are putting
big feet on and walking
around in the woods
and putting on suits.
Like, I don't know
why, just to discredit
this potential
being out there.
I, I, I, I mean, I,
I just don't know
enough, but I will say
that indigenous people
around the world have
always believed in them.
And I have seen things
and know some really
dear friends of mine
who have seen things.
I haven't, I can't say
I've seen a Sasquatch,
but, um, I've seen
some crazy tracks.
And so it was a
friend of mine.
Uh, maybe there is some
big old, hairy beast out
there that maybe lives
in between the worlds.
You know, maybe it can
live in between these
two worlds of reality.
And that's what I've
heard as well, trans-
dimensional being.
Yeah and hey, you
know, science is
proving this stuff.
This isn't spiritual
woo-hoo stuff anymore.
I mean, physics and.
A multi-verse.
Yes.
Right.
It's totally proving
it with science.
What mystics and you
know, medicine men
and women have been
saying for eons.
So this is a really
exciting time where,
you know, people who
are talking about these
spiritual things can
be backed up by science
now, and maybe one
day we'll find them.
It, it does seem
weird to me that we
don't have really
definitive proof yet.
Right.
That was so many people
in the woods, you know?
And there's so many
people in the wilderness.
So I don't know.
It's a hard, it's
a hard topic.
Well, apparently
Washington has a law
that it is illegal
to shoot a Sasquatch.
Oh wow.
And I guess people
laughed about it and,
but the reality was is
that they were trying to
protect anybody who might
be out there dressed
up as a Sasquatch.
Totally!
Cause isn't there a
million dollar, uh.
Is there?
There's like a
million dollar prize,
or, I don't know
if it's a prize, but
a million dollar.
Reward.
Reward for bringing
in a Sasquatch body.
Someone will pay
a million dollars.
Wow.
I was asked that on a
hunting trip one time,
if you saw a Sasquatch,
would you shoot it?
No!
I don't know everyone's
different, but for
me the answer is no.
If I saw a Sasquatch,
no, I would not shoot it.
So.
But they were alive
and well, like I'm not
saying alive and, well,
I shouldn't say that,
but when I lived out for
a year and a half, just
out in the wilderness of
BC there, I got to say
all the stories and if
I'd run into, you know,
some clam diggers on the
beach, you know, we'd
gather around a fire
and they'd start telling
stories about Sasquatch.
For sure.
I mean, it was one of
the first questions
someone would roll up and
you hadn't seen anybody
for like three months
and like, hey, have
you seen the big fella?
You're like, no, not yet.
And I'm like, whoa,
because you know, my
cousin was here, you
know, a couple of years
ago and the Sas was
hucking out clams at him.
I've heard that.
Yeah.
And I was like, well,
and just all the
stories, you know, some
nights, just going to
the, your outhouse or
something in the pitch
black and I don't.
Course.
We didn't have
headlamps, they didn't
bring a headlamp.
So you're kind of
like, Ooh, you know,
I'm hearing strange
whistling noises.
You're like, oh, that
was, I dreamed about
Dzunukwa a lot out there
and it was kinda spooked.
I have to say, I'll be
honest, I was spooked.
I didn't want to see a
Sasquatch or definitely
not Dzunukwa, you know,
with the pierce red
lips and whistling and
I mean, she's known
to steal people and.
I've read the stories.
It's not like a,
you know, friendly
forest spirit.
Well the reason I asked
about that is because
I thought it would be a
good segue into, there's
a whole spiritual side
in your book and to you
about being outdoors.
And I thought that was a
really interesting take
that you have on it.
And some of this stuff
that people might look
at it, if they're casual
observers would say,
hey, that's really kooky.
Oh, totally.
But there's also,
there's a, there is an
inner truth essentially
to, to all of this.
And you're talking
about birds, essentially
talking to you.
Yeah.
Not like I would imagine,
not like saying, Hey
Nikki, come over here.
Yeah, I haven't
heard that.
Well, I've heard a tree
actually, which is a
crazy story, but no
animals haven't just
come out and be like,
Nikki what's up as well.
I wish they would,
that'd be awesome.
Cinderella doing all
your chores for you.
I wish!
So you've, I think it
was a Raven, was it?
That you followed and
you just felt a bit
of a connection to the
Raven and listening
to different animals
and the different
noises that they
make out in the wild,
would have different
meanings behind them.
Yeah, definitely.
I mean, you can learn,
anybody can learn the
language of, I don't
just mean nature, I
mean the language of
animals, for sure.
I mean, bird language
is a very, I'm not
gonna say easy thing
to get into, but it's
very well-documented
now from teachers that
I've learned from, um,
they do have a language
and there is, like you
said something deeper.
There's something
deeper there.
And I, I just, I can't
dismiss it anymore.
I've seen it happen and
had these experiences
that there is no
doubt that there is
something deeper and
beyond of what I can
understand going on.
And animals definitely
have shown me that
and opened me up to
this kind of spiritual
world that we live in,
whether it's in this
room or in nature.
And nature just is the
purest place I find to
find it or experience
it because it's just
all truthful out there.
There, there, isn't
all these other things
that come involved
with people and our
society and cultures
and our belief systems.
So you can be stripped
down to something and
have these experiences
out in nature.
Do you have any examples?
Yeah.
Gosh, so many examples.
Um, gosh, um, yeah,
just with every
animal, I can't, really
simply, like when I
was first learning it.
And this is why
I'm sitting here
talking to you today.
I mean, these kinds of
ma I use the word magic.
I feel like just, I love
it because I'm part,
I haven't really grown
up, so magic to me, I'm
just like a little kid.
I love magic.
That was my first job.
I performed magic
at kids' birthday
parties when I was
in elementary school.
Nice!
And so I feel
like magic is just
when you're really
connected to something
.
Yes, yes.
So, um, just little
things, you know,
I'd be sitting in
the woods going, Oh,
I don't know what
that bird is singing.
Wouldn't it be great,
could you just come
and sit on this branch
right in front of me
and then sing so then I
can actually see you and
I can hear your song.
And literally within
seconds, this bird
would fly out of a
tree somewhere land on
that exact stick I was
imagining and scream
out at song to me and
be like, oh my gosh,
did you just hear me?
And it just made me go,
wow, that was, you know,
synchronicity or whatever
you want to call it.
But there was other,
so many more examples.
You know, my book I talk
about with the Cougar
that came by and that's
been a really powerful
story, a teaching
story for me, for sure.
You know, having my
greatest fear of being
the dark and cougars
and then deciding to
go and sleep outside
with a sleeping bag to
try to overcome those
fears and lying there.
And, you know, having
this animal walk up to me
and then plop down beside
me and start purring.
Woah.
You know what I mean?
Just that, I mean,
animals don't just
come and lie with
you in general.
You know, it happens
to some people.
Sure.
Um, but to be actually
trying to face that
fear, you know, and then
the animal comes and
sleeps right next to
me all night, you know,
purring and who was.
It just opened me up to
this world that I was
like, wow, some other
things are going on here
that I don't know about.
And it's happened to me
every time I can go into
the woods, I can have
those experiences, small
land and large, you know,
we want to have these big
experiences, but there
are so many small little
ones that can build
up to you being able
to be open, to receive
these kinds of things.
And I think one of the
things that helped me
was, I have this mentor
in my life and he'd
always say, Nikki, when
you just go anywhere,
you know, you're out,
you're in the forest.
Just say, hi forest,
it's Nikki, I'm just here
and he's just the most
beautiful man I know.
He'd always be like,
hi, this is, you know,
it's Nikki, I'm here.
I'm just letting you
know, I'm happy to
be here, whatever,
just have this little
minute conversation.
And, uh, I've always
done that from him and
you know, whenever I
want a question answered
and I need help, you
know, going on Alone
was the same thing.
I didn't just make this
decision instantaneous.
I was like, hey, I need
to go sit in the woods
and I'll get back to
you in a few hours.
Right.
And, you know, I went out
there and, um, I always
do that and animals
will show up or there'll
be some sort of thing.
I mean, I've even,
been lost in the woods
legitimately, not very
little skills too.
And, um, been like,
hey, you know, nature,
I really need some
help, like if you can
send me a direction
to walk to like, I
gotta get outta here.
And I just sat down
quietly and like you were
talking about, I kind of
just let go of all the
yacking so I can just
really, I see everything
and listen with all my
senses in that moment.
So then it does quiet
out all those yakking,
if you really use and
are looking everywhere
and not moving your
head necessarily,
but wide angle vision
and listening and
feeling in that moment.
And, um, a bird came and
landed right beside me.
This very thrush.
And I was like, oh,
like, I'm not saying
anything to it.
I don't want it to fly
away, but I'm just like,
okay, there's a bird.
And then it looked at me
and then it jumped on the
perch and faced another
direction and just
started singing and then
jumped back, looked at
me and it jumped, it did
this like three times.
And I was like, wow,
like, I don't know what
that means, but I'm
going to like run in
that direction of like a
few minutes before dark.
And I was like, I want
to give it 10 minutes.
I'm just going to run
that way and popped
out and found my car.
Holy crow!
Yeah.
It was amazing.
You know, there's,
there is definitely
a lot of things out
there that science
just can't lock down.
And there's like,
you're saying
quantum physics and.
Yes.
All of the quantum
realities that, uh, being
open to experiencing
these things and being
able to either interpret
prior to, or interpret
afterwards in a, in a
way that I find that
really interesting.
Yeah.
It is about being open.
It's not a
judgemental thing.
You know, when you bring
in all of the things from
city and your life and
your past experiences
into nature, it, they
will expose nature,
will expose all of those
things, everything.
Your, your strengths,
your weaknesses,
everything becomes open.
And so when you can
actually be very open
to experiences out
there without bringing
all of that with you,
then I think you can
have this different
connection with nature
that goes much deeper
than just the name of
a plant, or this is the
behavior of this animal,
but it becomes like a
relationship with them.
Instead of just feeling
slightly connected
or knowing the facts
about something.
There's just this deeper
level of relationship
that I've been able to
build over the years,
just by being me and
being open to even things
I didn't believe in.
You know, just being
like, hey, could just
like Sasquatch, could be.
Could be.
You know, I'm not
willing to say no or
a hundred percent yes.
Like, um, but
hey could be.
So everyone's locked
down with, COVID a social
isolation, not being able
to see their friends,
but they are encouraging
people to be outside.
That's an aspect that
I bet a lot of people
don't think about, is
that relationship with
the outdoors, would
you have any advice for
people to strengthen
their relationship with
the outdoors or even
just start to appreciate
and allow the, the
outdoors to heal them?
Yeah, I do.
And I have been really
working on that a lot
in the past month.
I'm designing this
business based
around this idea
called Luminaria
Wilderness Ventures.
And I do, I want to have
people be able to come
out with myself and my
team and experience what
I experience to be able
to see nature in the
wilderness how I see it.
In a way, not to say
that the way I see it
as right, but just as a
more of a relationship
building experience,
rather than, you know,
we hiked to the top of
the mountains and we
get to the view and we
take some Instagrammable
pictures, and then we
go home and you miss all
the things along the way.
Like I rarely get to
the end of a trail.
I just, I, for me right
now being in the city,
you know, I'm trying
to hike like everybody
and get some exercise
and it's all I can do
you to force myself
to stay on that trail.
And so I think the one
thing that I would say
to people is to slow
down, you know, this
idea of slow travel, you
know, use you're getting
exercise as one exercise.
You know, if you want to
get in shape, that's one
way, but you need to just
sit and find a spot that
you go to all the time.
And this idea of the
secret spot, you know,
Sam Gribley had it like,
um, my teachers have
always taught me about
it and to find a place
in nature, even if it's
your backyard or your
window or your balcony,
and you just sit there,
just sit there for 20
minutes is about what
it'll take people, it's
a lot easier or quicker
the more you learn
your area and animals
respond to differently.
As you know, like the
first three days when
you're on a hunting trip
all over the place and.
Yep.
Animals are like running.
Every bird is like, hey,
they're coming through.
And then eventually, no,
one's caring, not caring
about it, but they're
like, Oh, hey, yeah,
they're there, it's not
a big deal they're, you
know, you've, you've let
go of all of that chatter
in your mind, which is
what scares animals away.
So I just slow
down, you know.
Slow down.
Just sit in the forest,
just go to the park
and sit there and
see what you can see.
And eventually all
those animals are
going to use, not just
used to you there, but
they'll accept you.
You know, pretty soon
the squirrel is not going
to be like alarming you
for 15 minutes, right?
Yes.
All the little Brown
birds will be quiet when
you're walking through
the trail, eventually
they're not going to be
like human coming, human
coming, and the next bird
picks it up and you'll
eventually get that
energy about yourself.
That's with nature
rather than I'm just
visiting, you know?
And that's what I
want to teach people
is how to become,
not just a visitor to
the wild spaces, but.
I'm really looking
forward to seeing
that business develop.
Mhmm.
You know, I had a,
there's an Indigenous
woman who wants told
me, she said if the
squirrels started setting
their alarm off, quit
hunting that area.
Oh yeah, got to.
They're, they're talking.
The squirrels are talking
to the elk, they're
talking to the deer,
they're telling them
to stay away and yeah.
I'm like, you know,
there's probably some
wisdom to that one.
Oh yeah, they will the
birds especially too.
Get to know all
the Brown birds.
Yeah?
The birds that live
in the tree top,
they don't to care.
They don't care
that much about you
because they more
live in the tree tops.
So they're more concerned
about hey Hawks coming
in, I found the owl,
whatever, but the little
Brown birds that live
on the ground, the wrens
and the sparrows, man,
get to know those guys.
Even the Robbins, because
they feed on the ground
because those are the
ones that are going to
send all of the alarming.
They can go for miles.
Every bird in the next
territory will pick up
a call if it's intense
enough and then they'll
spread it that way.
And every deer, every
game animal, if you
will, is keyed into
bird language, every
single one of them.
And if you're, you
know, I mean, you've,
I'm sure seen this.
When I'm trying to get
up close to a deer, you
know, when they stop, I
stop moving, they look
at you like, hey, if
you're still moving, when
this guy's telling us
this, you clearly have
no idea what's going on
in the woods, you know?
And you can't just
freeze all of a sudden
when an animal sees
you, then it's like,
why are you frozen
still, like, I see you.
You're like, no, I'm
just a tree and you're
like, no, I saw you
move and now you're not.
So you better pick up
and start grazing or
start nibbling on leaves.
And then the deer
will be like, okay,
you're a grazer.
Okay, I get that,
cause I'm a grazer.
Okay, awesome.
Now, now you're picking
up that berry and eating
it, like, okay, like I
feel a lot less sketched
of you now because
you're showing signs
of doing what I do.
That's interesting.
See, when I was
younger, I was taught
a 45 degree trick
for getting rabbits.
Never go right
towards a rabbit.
Pretend you're not
interested at all.
Go at about 45 degrees
and play around on the,
but for some reason I
never actually put a
correlation between that
and any other animals.
Absolutely.
Dear, I mean, I can
get just like touchin'
dear, because you
can, if you stop when
they stop and they're
looking, you're like,
oh, I'm looking over
in that direction too.
I don't often know
what, you know, what
they saw or hear.
I mean, they have huge
ears, I can't possibly
hear what they're
hearing on a level, but
I can look in the same
direction and stop and
they're like, Oh, sweet.
Nikki stopped too.
That's great,
um, perfect.
Because if you don't
and you're still
oblivious, then they get
all nervous, you know?
And if you're like, hey,
don't worry about me.
I mean, when I'm stocking
up and I don't want
them to see me, it's
different, but once
they have seen you
or you screwed up and
they're like, oh, hey,
I see you over there.
You're like, oh right,
well, I'm just, you
know, eating too.
Um, and then they're
like, oh, okay.
Um, yeah, and it's,
it's a really fun way
of learning different
types of animal
behavior, for sure.
Do you have any
tips for stalking an
animal if you don't
want them to see you?
Yeah.
If you don't want them
to see you, for sure.
Like, so, uh,
yeah, I mean kind
of still hunting.
Yeah.
It's my, obviously the
only way I know how,
um, I mean, I can sit
in a blind as anybody,
but I, I get too
fidgety after a while.
I'm like you.
I just am like,
oh, okay, this is
getting a little, um.
So yeah, like I, um, I
definitely, I learned
this from my cat,
actually that I took
in the bush with me.
Okay.
Um.
Scout.
Yes.
Uh, she's all
time stalker.
So she would always,
um, she always stops in
the shadows, obviously.
She would never go across
an open space ever.
I mean, if she did,
she was just skirting
or on her belly.
I mean, it was amazing
to watch her and open
spots and she would wait
until there was some
sound or movement in
nature and then move.
Like she would never
move when there wasn't
either a leaf falling
or a bit of a rustle
and then she would move.
And she would, and I
learned this too, from
a class of mine and
camouflage, cause it's
my favorite thing to do.
And um, it's like
imagining you are that,
that you're hiding
behind or it goes on
to what we've just been
talking kind of this
spiritual invisibility.
There's something
different about
camouflaging your mind
than just your body.
Right.
You know, I, I can be
in full pink whatever,
bright red clothing
and can have the same
results as if, when I'm
fully camouflage, when
I'm really good at just
camouflaging my mind.
All the thoughts that
pop in there, fear,
especially, or like
aggressive feelings.
Um, I've seen this with
a lot with cougars,
um, when you're in a
situation being really
close to them, if you
just take this really you
know, gentle breath and
let it out immediately,
they will let it out
that coming together.
So close to animals
for so many times in my
life, I've seen my body
reaction in them and
it's been able to make
me instantaneously, be
able to let go of any
fear, any emotion, any
kind of, besides just
peace, you know, and
just this calmness, um,
otherwise you're dead.
So you gotta kind of
learn it pretty quickly,
but, um, there's
ways of practicing
it with animals that
aren't dangerous.
You know, like you
can practice it with
Robbins, are great.
I mean, Robbins are hard.
Okay.
Herons are amazing
animals stalk.
If you can stalk up to
a Heron, I mean, you can
get any animal because
they are the ultimate in
silence and slow movement
and that, and so practice
on these other animals
that aren't dangerous.
And then you can learn
and see how you can
control your emotions
better in those moments.
Because as soon as you
go, oh my gosh, I don't
have my knife on me and
there's a Cougar four
feet from you, that
rise immediately, I've
seen cougars, just turn
their head and look
at me with the most
intense eyes that you're
like, I'm about to die.
And then you're like,
oh no, I love you,
like, everything's
good, everything's calm.
And then immediately
they go back to
what they're doing.
And then as soon as you
get that feeling of like
that moment where you're
about to take a shot and
you're getting, you know,
you gotta just they'll
feel sense that they,
they, they sense more
than I think people, um,
really give them credit
for on this, I don't
know, energetic level.
I believe it, you know,
when I was younger
being taught cam and
concealment and one of
the trixie instructor
said was if your
camouflage and somebody
is walking by, don't
make eye contact, don't
look at them, right?
Look to the side, use the
periphery of your vision.
Yes.
He says, don't ask
me why it's hoodoo
voodoo kinda thing.
Totally it is!
But you look at them
and more often than
not, they'll just turn
and stare right at you.
Right at you!
Exactly.
I mean one time I
was practicing this.
I'll never
forget, so cool.
You've reminded
me of the story.
I haven't thought about
it for years, but I was
practicing invisibility
and I was sitting on a
park bench and it wasn't
a lot of people around,
but I was sitting on this
park bench and, you know,
watching these ducks in
front of me or whatever.
And I noticed some people
coming down the trail.
And I was like, okay,
like, um, I'd been
there, sitting there
quite a while and the
person came up and I
thought they were just
going to walk by me,
but they didn't, they
started slowing down.
I was like, Oh,
maybe they're
coming to sit here.
So I just stayed
in this space.
And one lady almost
sat on me, until
I was like, hey.
And she tried to like,
Oh my God, you just
appeared, you literally
were not there and I
was like, no, I've been
here the whole time.
Just like, no
you weren't.
I was like, yes!
This lady almost
sat on me.
Like it was so good.
Mission accomplished!
Mission accomplished.
Um, yeah, that was fun.
So yeah, I mean,
camouflage is,
is so much fun.
I just, I love it.
There's such a depth
to it, rather than
just smearing stuff on
your face that people
think it is, you know?
Totally.
Yeah.
So in 2011, you mentioned
a traumatic experience
where you nearly died
and it mimicked in many
ways, your dream of
Dzunukwa, but a barred
owl saved your life.
Afterwards, after the
event from what you
described, looks like
you were suffering from a
form of PTSD essentially.
Oh, definitely.
Definitely.
I have no problem saying,
Hey, I've lived through
some traumas and have
suffered through PTSD.
If you think that's
valid for your listeners.
Well it just, it was an
interesting thing that
came up and I don't want
to be taking the podcast
in a certain direction if
it's not a place you're
comfortable with, but
with people who have
been through trauma.
Yeah.
I did a podcast with
a, a fellow who runs
a, an outfit in Alberta
and it's called Veteran
Hunters and they do.
They take veterans out
hunting and they use,
it's sort of like the
Japanese have nature
bathing, but he takes
an activity which some
people would, uh, ascribe
violence and, uh, sort
of a negative energy too.
He says, no,
no, no, no, no.
You're, you're
out there, you're
stalking the animal.
You're with like-minded
people who've been
through like experiences
and using nature in,
in a hunting situation.
Yeah but I mean, you
need to learn all
kinds of things to
be a great hunter.
So, I mean, it is
much more than just
killing animals.
Absolutely.
It's a great program.
And he uses that to
assist people to work
through their PTSD.
And I guess with
mental health being
on the forefront with
everybody in lockdown
and with COVID, and
I guess the question
that I was asking you
there, was essentially
from an interest side
in the story, but why
don't we keep that as a
personal story for you?
And.
Yeah, no, I have no
problem, I love talking
about this stuff.
You know, my, my new, my
new company is, is part
of its foundation is
based on our emotional
state that we're in.
Um, I personally have
lived through quite
a lot of traumas
and PTSD events.
So I really want to
bring that as part of
my business as well.
I'm going to hire,
um, different
alternative therapists
and things as well.
Um, I'm not gonna
go into great detail
with my company in it.
Right.
But I do believe that
nature is an amazing
place for healing and
to work through just
common issues that we're
all going through during
COVID, especially.
I mean, it doesn't
need to be PTSD levels,
but you know, our
depression is, you know,
a growing concern, um,
in youth and in adults.
And so, yeah, I do
believe that wilderness
places are a way for us
to be able to be free
enough and be who we
truly are to deal with
these kinds of, um,
mental problems that
we're having in our
lives, in our, in our,
in our culture for sure.
Um, I know for a fact,
especially with Alone,
uh, I'll be very honest.
It was very traumatizing
for me to be pulled
out, um, how I
was on the show.
Tell me about that.
Um, yeah, I mean, it
did traumatize me.
There was no doubt.
I mean, I was feeling the
happiest and most joyous
I can ever remember being
on, on a survival treck.
I never felt pain and
suffering and I was never
tired and exhausted.
And just all those
things that come with
survival that you
have to work through.
Somehow I have no idea
how this happened, but
somehow I just, I never
felt those things.
I was never hungry,
even though it
was barely eating.
Um, I had, I could hike
for miles on my trapline
and not feel tired.
I mean, it just
felt amazing.
Even though I was losing
a lot of weight and I
had lost an extraordinary
amount of weight.
How much weight
did you lose?
Um, I, it was
over 30 pounds.
I came in, I think at
about 126 pounds, which
wasn't a lot, I really
should try to fatten up.
My body's like,
I don't do this.
And you're like, no,
please, I'm going on a
show about being fat,
I need extra weight.
Um, and I think I got
down to 97 . Pounds.
Wow.
I mean, it was a lot.
And so really there
was concern of my
weight loss, there
was no doubt about it.
And, um, I was concerned
to a certain point.
Um, I certainly had
never seen my body.
I knew that there
was concern in the
producers, I could tell.
I mean, they're very,
you know, straight face.
I mean, they're not
yakking into your
ear and it's just
very like, Hey, I'm
doing my job here.
I'm taking your
vitals and blah,
blah, blah, blah.
I could tell sometimes
when I would lift up
my shirt as much as
they were, I was like,
ooh, they looked a
little concern there.
Um, and so yeah, when
I got taken off the
show, um, it was, was
like, as if I was being
kidnapped is how I felt.
My mind made it seem like
I was being kidnapped
against my will.
And I spent about two
weeks, um, trying to
heal from that, uh,
out in the field.
And the production
was incredible.
They gave me every
resource and people
to talk to and
psychiatrists and.
Wow.
Amazing food and a
recovery program.
And they did everything
they could to help me.
But going from this
experience where I'm
like living as happy as I
could ever be in my life,
to quickly, getting on
an airplane and flying
into a hospital to be
tested for something
that I was like,
there's nothing with me.
Um, and then it's like,
ah, we're just going
to have to monitor
you in town and then
being in town and just
my mind just snapped.
And I was like, I
need to get out to
the woods again.
And, um, so I got back
out to the woods and
took about two weeks
in this little cabin
and they were really
great and letting me
kind of go out of my
cabin when I wanted to.
And I started talking
and doing just
like what I said.
I'm like, wow, I really
feel terrible about the
last, you know, hare
that I trapped, um,
on the day that I was
taken out a hare that I
found on the trap line,
as I was taking my trap
line before I left.
I was like, I'm not
leaving here until
I take all my traps
down like, so they
hiked around with me.
Good for you.
Yeah.
And, um, yeah, just, it
was a slow process and
I realized how important
nature was for me.
And I think for other
people too, can be
a place to really be
able to you know, see
the patterns in your
life from your past
experiences that are
still with us and
into our future that
we still live from.
And there are mostly
these false beliefs
systems that we have
about ourselves.
These stories that we
tell ourselves that
is a complete lie.
Um, you know, especially
from traumatic
situations, we, we make
up all kinds of coping
mechanisms and, um, these
things can really come to
light in the wilderness
because it's just such
a pure place to be.
And safe, you know, as
much as we're, can be
afraid of big game and
wildlife and spiders and
the dark and all these
other things like in a
safe environment with
safe people that know how
to take care of you and
teaching you to take care
of yourself in nature,
I think is a great space
for, um, helping to heal
ourselves and the planet.
I really feel like
now that the way to
save our planet is
by healing ourselves.
I mean, and that's kind
of the mission of my
new company is just.
Woah.
Trying to help people
have this relationship
with nature in
a different way.
Um, through look, I'm
a big adventure fan.
So I'm all about pushing
the edge, whether it's
pushing the edge of
adventure or pushing the
edge of self-discovery.
And that's kind of
what my new company
is going to be about.
That's a very
ambitious goal.
It is.
It's all going to be,
uh, really customized
to each individual group
or person, um, so that
it can be fine tuned
to what your fears are
potentially or what
your, what animals you
want to, you know, make
better relationships
with or see, or so it'll
be really customized
to like your interests
and nature, so it's.
Very cool.
Um, it's not just
going to be like a
one-stop shop for sure.
Well, I'm going to
put some links up in
the, in the bio and
on the YouTube page.
I know it's a, uh,
a fledging business.
Yes.
Do you have a
website for it?
I don't have the website.
I just was a-okayed
by the name, which
I can't believe the
process that I went
through through that.
I finally decided
to make a phone call
and say, look, it's
impossible to name a
company in 2021, that
isn't already out there.
I'm sorry.
Right.
Like I'm looking up
Sanskrit dictionary
just to come up
with some words.
Come on!
They finally a-okayed it
and I've incorporated it.
And so I'm just moving
into the next steps of
getting the website out.
And I have a great
team of people
already ready and.
Well, that's.
I'm excited about it.
Hugely helpful.
Yeah, trying to get
a business started in
this day and age in
some ways, like if you
want an internet based
business or something
online, incredibly easy.
Yes.
Low barrier to entry.
If you want to have a
physical boots on the
ground, bricks and mortar
type of a business,
holy crow, the number
of barriers that you
have to work through.
Oh, I had no idea and
I, I'm way over my head
in this, you know, my
skills are actually in
the forest, not sitting
like trying to design
those corporation.
But I'm hiring great
people that are
experts in their own
worlds and to help me.
And, um, yeah, I it's,
it's, uh, it's one of
those things, you know,
I've always said, um,
I'm always doing what
scares me the most and
I got to say, starting
this business is pretty
scary, so I know I must
be on the right track.
Good for you, Nikki.
Well, is there
anything else that
we should chat about?
What other, what
are things for your
listeners, would they
be interested in?
This whole thing is a
figment of my ADHD mind
because The Silvercore
Podcast, is on paper
about hunting, firearms,
foraging, fishing,
outdoor pursuits, and the
people in businesses that
comprise the community.
Yeah.
But in reality, I've
had the inventor of the
invisible cloak on here.
Nice!
Really cool guy.
And I would have called
BS, unless I had,
I've got a picture in
here holding it up.
Sick.
And the, the guy, Guy
Cramer, brilliant fellow.
And I thought, well,
you know, camouflage,
that's that that's
a hunting thing.
We'll fit that in, right.
Yeah.
We've had a fellow came
top of his class on
FBI, Virginia Quantico,
firearms instructor, and
a suffered a horrific
motorcycle accident
and another fellow who
was mauled by a grizzly
bear and fought it off
of this pocket knife.
I mean.
Yeah.
The idea behind this
podcast is I want to
talk with people who I
find interesting and.
Yeah.
I want to have fun.
So if the listeners don't
like what I'm talking
about, they could tune
into something else.
I'm not, I'm not doing
it for likes and listens
or anything like that.
This is just
me having fun.
Yeah.
I'm trying to think of,
um, everybody wants to
hear some of the stories.
That never get
published, you know,
you know what I mean?
Um, I love talking
about things that
obviously all the big
events that happen you
have to share, because
those are so cool.
Sure.
But there's always
these other underlining
stories that happen to
any of us in the woods
that don't get shared.
And especially on a
television show, um, you
know, someone else is
telling your story and.
Yeah.
It's hard to, like,
there's not much time to,
they'll tell your story.
So it has to be the
big events or whatever.
Um, and yeah, I, I, I'd
never thought that going
on a reality TV show for
one and a game show, be
anything that I would,
you know, want to do.
But you're competitive.
But I'm super
competitive.
And I finally realized
that there was
$500,000 on the line.
I did not know
in the previous
years I was asked.
So.
Really?
Yeah I was asked for
like five years, every
year since it started.
And I was like, oh yeah,
I'm not really into that.
I'm kind of doing
stuff or whatever.
And then on season
six, they're like,
yeah, you don't want
to win the $500,000.
I was like, what?
Half a million.
Sign me up.
Yes!
Where are we going?
And I remember she
said, uh, yeah, we're
going to the Arctic.
And I was like, ooh,
yeah, I don't really
know anything about
snowy locations or
been in the snow.
Um, is there trees and
cause all I thought was
polar bears and you know.
Icebergs, penguins.
Icebergs, ice and polar
bears that eat you.
And she's like, oh
yeah, I think so.
I was like, how about I
need a hundred percent
definition, there's
some trees and then
they'll get back to you.
So anyways, she was like,
yeah, there'll be trees.
And so I was like, okay.
Um, but yeah, I think one
of the things I learned
about, um, hunting when
I was on Alone was,
you know, I'm not, I'm
not a big game hunter.
I've only shot animals,
bows and arrows,
I don't think of
myself as a hunter.
Um, I'm a trapper,
I have a trap line.
I really don't
think of myself as a
trapper much either.
Sure.
But it was so amazing
to learn how to
be a hare trapper.
It was, I think
the best part of
my time out there.
And I would never have
believed that that would
have been something
I would have been
that excited about.
And it was so incredible
to learn about an
animal really didn't
know anything about,
I've never lived with
hares or rabbits,
um, and to, you know,
have to ditch fishing
because it's just, I
didn't have a spot I
needed to wait till it
froze over and I was
wasting too much time.
So I was like, okay, I'm
switching, I'm gonna just
get me a hare trapper.
And so walk the landscape
and try to find sign
that I would, you
know, I'd read about,
but it wasn't really
have that experience
in the woods with and
setting up the traps.
Like really learning
from every rabbit that
I trapped, like to be
able to learn on the go
like that, for your very
existence and the money,
you know, I was there.
Sure.
Not for the experience.
The only thing I was
there for was that money.
Right.
I gotta say, I didn't
have these other things
that most people do going
on the show, like, yeah,
I want to test myself.
I was like, no, kind
of already done that.
Been there, done that.
I was like, I just
want the money.
Like, that's it.
And, um, to have
something like
that, fueling you
is really odd too.
Um, And so that I think
the learning how to
trap that the hares was
this really incredible
way to, has what we've
been talking about
the whole afternoon of
getting a relationship
with that land, was
through the rabbits
and through trapping.
It wasn't me wandering
around and, you
know, sitting there
and getting berries.
It was actually
hunting animals that,
um, connected me
with that land in a
much more deeper way.
And I think that's
something that people
don't often think
about as far as the
hunting world, you know.
But I learned so much
about that land and
the history and the
other animals that were
living there through
those rabbits and the
rabbits that I was
successful in getting.
And, um, it was a
really profound kind
of realization for me
that, wow, this is one
path to developing this
relationship that I'm
talking about, which
you wouldn't imagine
necessarily to be.
But it brings a whole
wholeness to the story
by utilizing that
animal for my own life.
It does.
Um.
You know, non-hunters
will have a difficult
time understanding that.
Yeah.
Because they look at
the act of hunting,
quite, the initial
imagery is typically
male dominated, firearm
and shooting an animal.
And that's hunting
in the non hunter and
most non hunters mind.
When the diversity
in hunters is growing
on a daily basis.
Yeah.
The act of actually, if
you're using a firearm
to hunt, of shooting
is only just a minuscule
portion of everything
that's involved.
And hunters share and
understanding of the land
and an understanding of
the animals, in a way
that non-hunters would
have a very difficult
time to, to appreciate.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
And I will say there
was, there's so many
moments where, you know
what I mean, having a
hare in your trap was
like, this is another
day I get to live out
in this amazing space.
I mean, when I would
find an animal or shoot
a squirrel, it was like,
yes, like couple more
days out here I got.
Like, just everyday I
woke up thinking that
like, yes, like I'm
so excited for life,
this intensity and joy
for life every day out
there was so incredible.
And to be able to
bring that back into
my life now has changed
my life completely.
And, um, I have to
say sometimes I'd be
walking my trap line
and you know, you'd
see the rabbit off in
the distance and I'm
like, okay, come on.
At least just this
one time don't cry.
Okay, just come
on, you can do it.
You know?
And I walk up there
like, yes, like, you
know, I don't have to
just, and then all of
a sudden I'd see it.
I'd just be like so
grateful and you know,
the sense of gratitude
that happens to you out
there in a real survival
situation like that.
Gosh, this, this
gratitude is
overwhelms me.
And I just said
like, Oh gosh, okay.
Well I definitely, after
crying, it's so fun.
And then eating
rabbit, that was
your primary source
of protein, was it?
Yeah.
Rabbits and squirrels.
Uh, and wow.
I'd never I've tasted
hare before, but
wow, it was so good.
I can't believe it.
Uh, people always
are laughing.
Cause my favorite part,
like my dessert was
always the eyeballs.
I can't believe how
good those rabbits, the
bunny eyeballs were.
It was so good.
I just saved them to
the end and the tongue.
You and Bear Grylls, eh?
So ridiculous.
I was like, Oh wow.
You know, it's
the classic drama
of television.
I was like, no, wait,
this is gourmet,
I have to say.
Eyeballs.
I'm elevating these
guys to gourmet.
I've had fish eyeballs.
Oh yeah.
They're pretty good.
Yeah.
These are better.
Better?
I don't know
why, but yeah.
I'm all about making, you
know, gourmet wild meals.
Forget those like
disgusting gray
soups with ash and
charcoal bits in there.
Yes.
It's like Bear Grylls
episode where he had
Will Ferrell out in the
whole celebrity take.
Yeah, yeah.
And, uh, they just
ate the eyeball off.
I forget what creature,
but then later on
there's a, I think it
was an eagle flying
above and Will Ferrells,
hmm I wonder what it's
eyeballs taste like.
That's awesome.
Yeah.
He's classic for eating
just gross stuff.
Oh totally.
That's his claim to fame.
Totally.
But I guess if you're
just eating squirrels and
rabbits, isn't there, so,
the lack of fat that's
required in order for
you to keep the pounds
on, but isn't there a
craziness, what's the
word I'm looking for?
Isn't there supposed to
be like rabbit fever?
Yeah.
It's like a rabbit
starvation or
rabbit poisoning.
There's an actual
term for it.
I should know it.
Um, but you do and you
can't live off rabbit.
Right.
We proved that
on Alone um.
Sure.
You literally can't,
there's no fat, so
that's why fish is
pretty important.
Right.
Because they do have a
lot of fat on them and
you know, there's fat
around the kidneys or
whatever, but it's so
minuscule that, um, yeah,
you will die from eating
rabbit after awhile.
It's just too
high in protein.
I've heard that you
have some sort of a,
uh, you can go a little
nutty before dying.
Or am I off base
on this one?
Pretty sure you go
nutty, once you start
starving to death.
Yeah, I guess so.
Yeah definitely.
Your functions of your
brain start going down.
Knew a fellow.
His name was Mike
Gallon and he owned a
place years ago called
Mike's Musket Shop.
Uh, he was a
multimillionaire who
decided to leave his
mansion and all of
his property to his
wife and his son.
And he went up to
Lillooet and they called
them the grape rancher.
He built himself a
little cinderblock
house, and I think he
could speak those five
different languages, a
very eccentric fellow.
And he was talking about,
uh, when he was in the
concentration camps and
the amount of weight
that he lost and some
of the atrocities of
the rest, but his first
meal that he had when
he was out was a very
high, fat content meal.
And he would always
tell me that meal
almost killed them.
Yes.
Well, um, the production
team of Alone, they have
a very strict re-feeding
program for the, for
that exact reason.
Um, because we
are starving to
death out there,
literally, literally.
I mean, there's been
some serious cases of
people being pretty
sick, um, and pushing
yourself to that point
of like, wow, like I can
barely walk, you know.
I know on my first treck
I got to the point
I could barely walk.
Uh, I know what
that feels like.
You can barely
move around, like
picking up any pot.
You're like, can't
even, you're just
skin and bones.
Right.
Um, but yeah, so
Alone does do that.
They have an incredible
re-feeding program
so that you don't
just shock your body.
And it sucks, you know,
for most participants
because they're
like, dude, I just.
Fill me up!
Really haven't eaten
anything for two weeks.
Um, I just want to eat,
you know, chocolate
and candy and whatever.
And so there's just
this very long procedure
that goes on when you
get out of the field,
which is fantastic.
Otherwise, yeah, there's
a lot of problems
that can happen.
So do you have a, you
have a nutritionalist
there, um, that you
talk to and she makes
up all the meals based
on your story out there.
So if you hadn't last,
you know, if you weren't
out there as long,
then it's different
for people who have
gone to a certain stage
and certain of their,
you know, bodies.
Yeah.
Their weight to
their cardio.
I mean, you're all,
you have all kinds of
tests done on you to
determine where you're
at in your re-feeding.
What was your
re-feeding process?
What did that look like?
You know, gosh, I was
so caught up in my mind.
I literally don't
really remember much.
I remember them, you
know, they see, yeah.
It's broth
mostly a broth.
Um, there's no solid
foods right away.
So it's just mostly
soup with just a broth.
Bone broth is um, and
then once you get through
the bone broth, um,
you start getting, I
don't know, there would
be, maybe a Cracker.
I think crackers came
pretty late actually.
I think the breads
and stuff were
very late in it.
Um, I, I honestly
hardly remember.
I remember just eating,
um, and just journaling.
Like I journaled for four
days straight without
leaving, doing anything.
I never slept, I probably
didn't sleep for nine
days or something.
Seven or nine days
when I came out.
Really?
Oh yeah.
It was just like.
Just wired.
Yeah.
Journaling and just
like, so, oh my gosh,
there was so much going
on and being, I don't
just out of that wild
setting into, you know,
modern, I guess, world,
if you will, was just so
overwhelming with your
senses being so expanded.
Yes.
And it just
drove me crazy.
You can hear every
single thing.
So, um, I just journaled
and was just like, I'm
just gonna write like
how I felt out there and
why don't I feel like
that now, like I need
to get back and then I
would just tell them,
like, I just want to
get back to how I was
feeling in the woods and
then I'll be ready to go
home and call my family.
I mean, I didn't call
my family for a couple
of weeks probably until
I was like, hey, I
figured everything out.
I'm ready to go.
Did, did you actually
have to figure it out?
Yeah, I did.
Did you?
I, um, they were great.
I said, uh, you know,
I need some crayons
and some big paper
and I just turned
my cabin into this.
It kind of looked like
that reminds me of that
movie um, beautiful mind.
Yes.
You know, where he's
got all that, like
that's what this
cabin looks like.
And it was so amazing
when they would come
in to, you know,
the doctors would be
there or whatever.
And they're like, okay.
It looks like
you're doing a lot
of work in here.
As they're looking
around like, crazy town.
I'm really got my
stuff together.
Like I'm just figuring
everything out.
And, um, so he.
You can just bring
me a typewriter and a
whole bunch of stamps.
They got me a journal
book and I just started
writing and, um, it
was really amazing.
I started venturing out
nature obviously and had
some incredible, magical
experiences on my healing
and the Arctic to that,
the animals just were
like, hey, we're here.
Like, um, it
was really neat.
Wow.
Really, really neat.
Well, Nikki, thank you
very much for being on
this Silvercore Podcast.
I really appreciate you
coming out here talking.
It's been really fun.
I've been looking forward
to this for a long time.
Thank you so much
for having me.